NationStates Jolt Archive

Well just like the other two "Greatest Modern" series, VOTE!!!

POLL WARNING!!! OMG!!! IT'S GONNA FALL!!!

Edit: I forgot the list the PM's party affiliation, here it is:

1. Paul Martin - Liberal
2. Jean Chretien - Liberal
3. Kim Campbell - Progressive Conservative
4. Brian Mulroney - Progressive Conservative
5. John Turner - Liberal
6. Pierre Trudeau - Liberal
7. Joe Clark - Progressive Conservative
8. Lester B. Pearson - Liberal
9. John Diefenbaker - Progressive Conservative
10. Louis St. Laurent - Liberal

There aren't enough Canadians for such a specific thread. All I've known is Chretien and Martin, so I just guessed pearson, cuz he won the nobel prize, but seriously, Canadian prime ministers never do anything important anyway.

Well just like the other two "Greatest Modern" series, VOTE!!!

POLL WARNING!!! OMG!!! IT'S GONNA FALL!!!

Edit: I forgot the list the PM's party affiliation, here it is:

1. Paul Martin - Liberal
2. Jean Chretien - Liberal
3. Kim Campbell - Progressive Conservative
4. Brian Mulroney - Progressive Conservative
5. John Turner - Liberal
6. Pierre Trudeau - Liberal
7. Joe Clark - Progressive Conservative
8. Lester B. Pearson - Liberal
9. John Diefenbaker - Progressive Conservative
10. Louis St. Laurent - Liberal
I voted Trudeau. Mainly for patriating the constitution.

There aren't enough Canadians for such a specific thread.
How little you know...

All I've known is Chretien and Martin, so I just guessed pearson, cuz he won the nobel prize, but seriously, Canadian prime ministers never do anything important anyway.
Uh....huh....

Turn off that American media you're watching and pay attention to your country from time to time. Christ on a stick! How can you not love Canadian PMs? John A used to drink gin and filibuster for 15 hours at a time! Mackenzie King communed with his dead mother! Joe Clark was the lamest damn PM ever! Mulroney f*cked us over with the GST and NAFTA, and created a one-party state when he destroyed public confidence in the Conservatives! Trudeau is so loved and hated that Canada is like a schizophrenic! Chrétien is one scandalous bastard! Our PMs do PLENTY important shite!

Joe Clark was the lamest damn PM ever!

I'll go with that guy.

he [Mulroney] destroyed public confidence in the Conservatives!

That's not so bad...

Canada? Wheres that?

Canada? Wheres that?

Northern U.S. :D


*hides*

Pearson doesn't get the credit he deserves. Not only did he win the Nobel Peace Prize, but he instituted a lot of the institutions that Canadians are proud of today: universal health care, student loans, bilingualism, the Canada Pension Plan, our flag, peacekeeping....

Sure some of those things are controversial, but they definitely shaped our country.

Trudeau. Just... Trudeau.

That's not so bad...

Hey I live in Alberta and I gotta ask, which province is giving out $400 rebate checks to men women and children? Oh right, mine. I'm buying an iPod, thanks Conservatives!

Trudeau was a bastard for starting the NEP.

Northern U.S. :D


*hides*

Oh...thought it was part of Ireland or somthing for some odd reason. So are they apart of Michigan?

Hey I live in Alberta and I gotta ask, which province is giving out $400 rebate checks to men women and children? Oh right, mine. I'm buying an iPod, thanks Conservatives!

Trudeau was a bastard for starting the NEP.

Oh please, you think you're the only province who does that? Frigging BC gives out rebate checks almost every time there is an election coming up. Granted I only got $100 this year (car insurance rebate), but last provincial election it was pretty close to $400 in multiple checks (car insurance and BC Hydro rebate plus something else. Came in handy, since I was in the middle of moving at the time). Although personally, I'm insulted that they think they can buy me so cheaply.

You're happy about getting your tax money back just once? Do you enjoy getting bought off with your own cash?

Oh, and if I were you, I'd check your calendar and see if there is a provincial election coming up.

How little you know...


Uh....huh....

Turn off that American media....


Hey loser canadian im an american and I still know my stuff on the Canada PMs so why don't you just shut your frosty little dill hole and stop bashing america, I mean you are americas hat.

Which was the one that bombed serbia without a UN resolution?

Hey loser canadian im an american and I still know my stuff on the Canada PMs so why don't you just shut your frosty little dill hole and stop bashing america, I mean you are americas hat.I believe you must be Caribel #4. :rolleyes:

BTW, I think you know ur stuff on PMs from the list I created.

Anyway, answer this question:

Which PM who scrap that Avro Arrow project?

Hey I live in Alberta and I gotta ask, which province is giving out $400 rebate checks to men women and children? Oh right, mine. I'm buying an iPod, thanks Conservatives!
As Equus said, your not special by getting a rebate. I would have preffered the $100 BC resedents was instead spent on Education. BC schools need that money more than the average taxpayer does.

Which PM who scrap that Avro Arrow project?

Truedea, I think. The Arrow would have been out of date within a few years anyway, so no harm no foul.

Truedea, I think. The Arrow would have been out of date within a few years anyway, so no harm no foul.

Wrong. It was a Conservative PM - John Diefenbaker. He shut down the Avro Arrow, which would have been the most advanced jet of the time and was launching a Canadian aeronautic industry. It was so advanced for its time that Britain shut down its interceptor production and ordered 200 Arrows. But then we signed the NORAD treaty, which subordinated our defense to that of the US - and the US government insisted that Canada install the Bomark missile defense. But we couldn't afford both the Bomark missile defense and the Arrow development project, and under pressure from the US gov't, missile defense won. And "coincidentally", many of Canada's best aeronautic engineers ended up at Boeing, NASA, and Concorde.

Maybe you're right and the Arrow might have been obsolete sooner rather than later - but that frelling missile defense system was useless and unnecessary from the moment it was installed.

We'd have been much better off pursuing the Avro project.

Wrong. It was a Conservative PM - John Diefenbaker. He shut down the Avro Arrow, which would have been the most advanced jet of the time and was launching a Canadian aeronautic industry. It was so advanced for its time that Britain shut down its interceptor production and ordered 200 Arrows. But then we signed the NORAD treaty, which subordinated our defense to that of the US - and the US government insisted that Canada install the Bomark missile defense. But we couldn't afford both the Bomark missile defense and the Arrow development project, and under pressure from the US gov't, missile defense won. And "coincidentally", many of Canada's best aeronautic engineers ended up at Boeing, NASA, and Concorde.

Maybe you're right and the Arrow might have been obsolete sooner rather than later - but that frelling missile defense system was useless and unnecessary from the moment it was installed.

We'd have been much better off pursuing the Avro project.

Hey, I am not saying that the Bomark was a good buy either, but in all likelihood Avro would not have been able to keep updating the Arrow anyway. Your major (probably only customer) would have been the UK, and they went through a lot of defense cuts soon after cancellation. The UKs own aerospace program went through a large contraction as well for similar reasons.

<shrug> Hard to say. Canada is the third largest builder of aircraft, after the US and France. But all of them are civillian aircraft. If we had been able to produce high quality military aircraft, we wouldn't have to buy from the US for inflated prices and we would have had a least one large customer (the UK), and possibly have been able to find other customers elsewhere - for example, some of the countries we sell civillian aircraft to.

But I guess this isn't a thread about the Avro, and hindsight is 20-20.

To get things a little more on topic, how good of a Prime Minister do you think Martin will be if he wins the election he promised us next year (which seems to be the case now)?

wow, favorite PM to the state of canadian aeronotics. that's good drift.

i'll pick trudeau. he was the last PM with a clear vision of the country he wanted to build. since that it's ranged from "competant, but uninspired management" to "incompetant, and horrifying management"

"competant, but uninspired management" to "incompetant, and horrifying management"
Who was "competent, but uninspired"?

Hey I live in Alberta and I gotta ask, which province is giving out $400 rebate checks to men women and children? Oh right, mine. I'm buying an iPod, thanks Conservatives!

Trudeau was a bastard for starting the NEP.


What? you mean the NEP that was the direct precursor reason for the current Alberta taking such a nice chunk of oil revenue thereby allowing it to send you a $400 cheque?


Yeah, I guess I can see why that would piss you off... :rolleyes:

Who was "competent, but uninspired"?

well, the lib's through most of the '90's didn't suck TOO badly, other than the graft, arrogence and corruption.

Trudeau, excluding the NEP, was a great among world leaders.

As Equus said, your not special by getting a rebate. I would have preffered the $100 BC resedents was instead spent on Education. BC schools need that money more than the average taxpayer does.
Guess what, the teachers are on strike! What's worst that I'm in Grade 12. BS! Why can't the BC goverment restore and improve the education system, they produced billion dollars surplus budgets. :mad:

i dont know but Trudeu and his wife were pretty freaky . So I guess I'll pick 'ol Pierre :D

I think the best poll would be to pick your favourite PM that lasted less than a year: Clark, Turner, or Campbell.

All Westerners; coincidence? Or Central Canadian plot?

This is me being a dumbass and knowing nothing of Canadian politics -

Um... Isn't Progressive Conservative a contradition, both literally and metaphorically? Or does it all somehow work out in Canada?

Guess what, the teachers are on strike! What's worst that I'm in Grade 12. BS! Why can't the BC goverment restore and improve the education system, they produced billion dollars surplus budgets. :mad:

Because Gordan Campbell would much rather tear up contracts to prove he's tough against unions.

And they haven't produced a real billion dollars surplus lately. You're thinking of the last NDP government. The only reason the Campbell government had one surplus in the last 4 years is because we are now a "have-not" province that gets transfer payments from the federal government.

Please see "The Libs' Big Fib": http://www.thetyee.ca/Views/2005/05/05/LibsBigFib/

This is me being a dumbass and knowing nothing of Canadian politics -

Um... Isn't Progressive Conservative a contradition, both literally and metaphorically? Or does it all somehow work out in Canada?

Yes, yes it is. But generally it meant conservative fiscally, but progressive socially. It did make sense in it's own way.

But that party is dead now, thanks to Mulroney/Manning/Campbell (pick one - though many Canadians will tell you it was Mulroney's fault, others will blame it on Preston Manning for starting an alternative right wing party, and others on Kim Campbell for not rescuing the party from certain death (by virtue of being a woman and a westerner) when Mulroney was finished with it.

I think the best poll would be to pick your favourite PM that lasted less than a year: Clark, Turner, or Campbell.

All Westerners; coincidence? Or Central Canadian plot?


Clark: Joe Who? A well intentioned charisma deficient weenie.

Turner: Dull, and paying for the sins of Trudeau. He didn't get the votes out west either.

Campbell: Paid dearly for the sins of Lyin' Brian, as did her entire caucus.



Clarke at least politically represented a political alternative to Trudeau. Turner and Campbell were sacrifical lambs to the slaughter.

Hey, I am not saying that the Bomark was a good buy either, but in all likelihood Avro would not have been able to keep updating the Arrow anyway. Your major (probably only customer) would have been the UK, and they went through a lot of defense cuts soon after cancellation. The UKs own aerospace program went through a large contraction as well for similar reasons.

??? When John Diefenbaker cancelled the program the Avro Arrow was the most advanced jet EVER created. :rolleyes:

I see we're going to cover Canada's rectal fissure, and not mention PM Mackenzie King...

Yes, yes it is. But generally it meant conservative fiscally, but progressive socially. It did make sense in it's own way.

But that party is dead now, thanks to Mulroney/Manning/Campbell (pick one - though many Canadians will tell you it was Mulroney's fault, others will blame it on Preston Manning for starting an alternative right wing party, and others on Kim Campbell for not rescuing the party from certain death (by virtue of being a woman and a westerner) when Mulroney was finished with it.

I guess they were more of a classical Liberal party then. Okay that makes more sense. :)

My BS detectors just went off because those two words - progressive and conservative - are not complimentary. Same thing happens when I hear 'compassionate conservative.'

Because Gordan Campbell would much rather tear up contracts to prove he's tough against unions.

And they haven't produced a real billion dollars surplus lately. You're thinking of the last NDP government. The only reason the Campbell government had one surplus in the last 4 years is because we are now a "have-not" province that gets transfer payments from the federal government.

Please see "The Libs' Big Fib": http://www.thetyee.ca/Views/2005/05/05/LibsBigFib/


While some points in that article regarding tax cuts etc have merit, I love the way it entire glosses over some pretty significant events. Like where it attempts to indicate that the revenue aspects of the provincial deficit was caused entirely by a normal cyclic downturn in the economy without even mentioning the fact that it was in 2001 that the US DOC imposed a duty of 19.31 percent on Canadian softwood lumber imports, followed very shortly by the additional "anti-dumping" duty of 12.57 percent imposed directly by the Bush Administration.

This twin hit of over 30% in additional duties was devestating to BC's large lumber industry and hugely impacted the bottom line for the province.


By glossing over such important mitigating details the article winds up coming off as a pretty shrill peice of bogus "journalism".

While some points in that article regarding tax cuts etc have merit, I love the way it entire glosses over some pretty significant events. Like where it attempts to indicate that the revenue aspects of the provincial deficit was caused entirely by a normal cyclic downturn in the economy without even mentioning the fact that it was in 2001 that the US DOC imposed a duty of 19.31 percent on Canadian softwood lumber imports, followed very shortly by the additional "anti-dumping" duty of 12.57 percent imposed directly by the Bush Administration.

This twin hit of over 30% in additional duties was devestating to BC's large lumber industry and hugely impacted the bottom line for the province.


By glossing over such important mitigating details the article winds up coming off as a pretty shrill peice of bogus "journalism".

We've had import duties on softwood lumber since well before 2001. Granted, the duties levied in 2001 were higher than previously.

The original point of that article was to dispel the BC Liberal myth that the NDP had driven the province "into the ground", when the records of the two governments are actually remarkably similar. The primary difference between the two (since markets always fluctuate) was that Campbell's government received federal transfer money, and the NDP did not.

Clarke at least politically represented a political alternative to Trudeau. Turner and Campbell were sacrifical lambs to the slaughter.

I think Joe's lapses can be written off to youthful inexperience; he later proved to be a fairly able Parliamentarian, if not a great leader. The other two had been around the block a few times and should have known better.

Trudeau. Just... Trudeau.
That is correct.

This is me being a dumbass and knowing nothing of Canadian politics -

Um... Isn't Progressive Conservative a contradition, both literally and metaphorically? Or does it all somehow work out in Canada?
They added "Progressive" to the party name to help win votes in the west.

It could also be interperted as meaning they are less conservative than before. Mostly though it was to win votes in the west.