NationStates Jolt Archive

I guess theres light at the end of the optimists tunnel! ARTICLE (http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20050925/ts_nm/crime_usa_dc)

'American Culture' is an oxymoron.

'American Culture' is an oxymoron.
Your just a moron.

'American Culture' is an oxymoron.
We do have culture, but the international perception of it tends to be slanted, and ignores all but the least sophisticated facets of american culture and life. We're not all a bunch of drunk brutes.

Your link pointed me to an article about violent crimes in America having dropped by I-don't-know-how-much. Is that what you meant?

There's no such thing as "American Culture". For example: the only similarities between New York and Washington are that they speak English in both.

Your just a moron.
It's: "you're".

Part the curtain behind so-called "popular culture" and you'll find a surprisingly robust and creative art, music and literary culture.

There's no such thing as "American Culture". For example: the only similarities between New York and Washington are that they speak English in both.
I don't quite agree. Many people would say that there's no one definite culture to my metro area (I live in the Kansas City area) -- the cities are too varied in economic, racial, religious backgrounds, etc. for there to be any unity. The preconception is that all the artists live in one area, all the rich right-wingers in another, all the poor left-wingers far off on the MO side, and on and on and on. However, if you actually visit Kansas City you'll realize the difference between what everybody envisions and what's actually there. Same thing with the US -- it's considered to have no culture because people don't take the time to realize the culture.

I think what people fail to realize is that if you took the time to really look at it more in terms of what we as a people all share, it's no longer about the differences between the areas.

Oh, I mean, except Wyoming. God knows what they're doing up there :rolleyes: Too spread out for their own good......

Now I'll negate my entire post with this: if you want REAL culture, move in with the family in Europe :D

ok so first of all, sick nightmares, I'm not saying your oppinion is wrong or anything, but please find a more prductive way of stating it then personal attacks. not only is it just low, it has no affect in getting people to side with you. Secondly, Verghastinsel, I know what your trying to say with "american calture is an oxymoron" but you should have elabrated. what he was going for is that we seemed to have borrowed our calture from basicly every other calture out there. Theres a reason for this my friend, we came more or less last and didnt have a calture to start from other then what everyone else already had. Much less America is known spacificly for its deverse people. Because of this they all bring their calture with them and thus our calture has become a hodge podge of 100's of other caltures. Eutrusca I totally agree with you. America has an amazing melting pot of people and we have created some great things from them. The problem is those people are held down and barried in a croud of closed minded, under educated, sheep. We have some work people, lets get to work.

A country that has only existed for ~200 years does not and cannot have culture. The entirely of North America is a cultural vacuum (unless you count the few sparse remnants of native cultures that remain).

'American Culture' is an oxymoron.
I beg to differ. True American culture is still preserved on those reservations out West.

No such thing as American culture. For you see, America is a continent including The United States of America and Canada in North America and Brazil, Argentinia et cetera in South America.

A country that has only existed for ~200 years does not and cannot have culture. The entirely of North America is a cultural vacuum (unless you count the few sparse remnants of native cultures that remain).

Yes, all of those Nobel prize winners and world renowned authors, sculptors, architects, composers, painters, and poets are all proof that America has no culture.

thats a sac of crap, culture is shaped by any number of time by the nations people, for example if argentina did not have it own culture then it would not have it own dance the tango, or flanco or whatever it is, and the carnival which is held alover the western hemishpere is self broubt to. mexico mixes modern happenings with ancient belif and in america our multi- ethnic diversity creates a kick as culture, lear it. example the hispanic/american culture celaebrates the ethnic diversity, and our americanization, In La we developed our own dance style "krumpin" and "clownin" that has a style all it ow, it reflect the many cultures in los angeles. but that not all the south has developed there own acsent, and music style that includes it own dance, in new york they thought of hip hop,so befor any body start accuseing the US of not having a culture is just full of shit, they obviously are to narrow minded to actualy take in in depth look at the nations and it people.

Yes, all of those Nobel prize winners and world renowned authors, sculptors, architects, composers, painters, and poets are all proof that America has no culture.
Yet another clever example of how Vetalia schools the world....

Simonist']Yet another clever example of how Vetalia schools the world....

Yet another example of when you can't tell whether their insulting someone or not.

No such thing as American culture. For you see, America is a continent including The United States of America and Canada in North America and Brazil, Argentinia et cetera in South America.
No such thing as the American continent. North and South America are two different entities. :eek:

No such thing as the American continent. North and South America are two different entities. :eek:

So when one refers to "America" they refer to something that does not geographically exist. It's either North or South.

Your link pointed me to an article about violent crimes in America having dropped by I-don't-know-how-much. Is that what you meant? I agree with Argesia. The title of the thread and the link provided do not relate in any way whatsoever.

the only similarities between New York and Washington are that they speak English in both. If you had compared New York, New York to Nowhere, Nebraska I might agree with you. However New York and Washington D.C. are both very large metropolitan areas with surrounding communities and large commercial districts.

A country that has only existed for ~200 years does not and cannot have culture. The entirely of North America is a cultural vacuum (unless you count the few sparse remnants of native cultures that remain).
hmm...so you've never heard of Jazz I take it? Or seen a Warhol or Pollock painting? How about, oh, I don't know...O'keefe? Or heard the term "Broadway"? Or maybe read anything by Poe, Emerson, Twain, Norris, Delilo, Faulkner, or Bradbury? How about Hollywood and movies? No? Not high enough culture for you? Hmm...How about the New York Dance Company, or Boston Pops, or any number of philharmonics? Maybe those don't count because they aren't playing things composed by Americans. Except for when they perform something by Erin (Aaron?) Copland, or Ives. Or, how about the cultural explosion of the Harlem Rennisance? Our culture, which you claim does not exist, is in fact very powerful. Of the major cities of influence from Rock, all but two are found in America (those two being London and Liverpool. The cities in America are Detroit, New York, LA, and Seattle). But clearly, having a pop culture copied by the world means nothing without some kind of high culture. We have amazing high culture if you take the time to look at it instead of just dismissing it because it is from America.

Yes, we are a young culture. That does not mean culture doesn't exist. Actually, if you picked 10 people at random and put them on an island, within the 5 minutes of their first interaction, a culture of sorts would already exist. Culture is rarely a tangible thing. It simply becomes manifested in works of art, music, and literature, as well as in every aspect of life. I could make the argument that this forum has its own culture easily. So before you dismiss two full continents (well, really, you dismiss Australia as well because they are equally "young", so three continents) you may want to look at what we have accomplished in 250 short years.

hmm...so you've never heard of Jazz I take it? Or seen a Warhol or Pollock painting? How about, oh, I don't know...O'keefe? Or heard the term "Broadway"? Or maybe read anything by Poe, Emerson, Twain, Norris, Delilo, Faulkner, or Bradbury? How about Hollywood and movies? No? Not high enough culture for you? Hmm...How about the New York Dance Company, or Boston Pops, or any number of philharmonics? Maybe those don't count because they aren't playing things composed by Americans. Except for when they perform something by Erin (Aaron?) Copland, or Ives. Or, how about the cultural explosion of the Harlem Rennisance? Our culture, which you claim does not exist, is in fact very powerful. Of the major cities of influence from Rock, all but two are found in America (those two being London and Liverpool. The cities in America are Detroit, New York, LA, and Seattle). But clearly, having a pop culture copied by the world means nothing without some kind of high culture. We have amazing high culture if you take the time to look at it instead of just dismissing it because it is from America.

Yes, we are a young culture. That does not mean culture doesn't exist. Actually, if you picked 10 people at random and put them on an island, within the 5 minutes of their first interaction, a culture of sorts would already exist. Culture is rarely a tangible thing. It simply becomes manifested in works of art, music, and literature, as well as in every aspect of life. I could make the argument that this forum has its own culture easily. So before you dismiss two full continents (well, really, you dismiss Australia as well because they are equally "young", so three continents) you may want to look at what we have accomplished in 250 short years.

Hear, Hear!

hmm...so you've never heard of Jazz I take it? Or seen a Warhol or Pollock painting? How about, oh, I don't know...O'keefe? Or heard the term "Broadway"? Or maybe read anything by Poe, Emerson, Twain, Norris, Delilo, Faulkner, or Bradbury? How about Hollywood and movies? No? Not high enough culture for you? Hmm...How about the New York Dance Company, or Boston Pops, or any number of philharmonics? Maybe those don't count because they aren't playing things composed by Americans. Except for when they perform something by Erin (Aaron?) Copland, or Ives. Or, how about the cultural explosion of the Harlem Rennisance? Our culture, which you claim does not exist, is in fact very powerful. Of the major cities of influence from Rock, all but two are found in America (those two being London and Liverpool. The cities in America are Detroit, New York, LA, and Seattle). But clearly, having a pop culture copied by the world means nothing without some kind of high culture. We have amazing high culture if you take the time to look at it instead of just dismissing it because it is from America.

Yes, we are a young culture. That does not mean culture doesn't exist. Actually, if you picked 10 people at random and put them on an island, within the 5 minutes of their first interaction, a culture of sorts would already exist. Culture is rarely a tangible thing. It simply becomes manifested in works of art, music, and literature, as well as in every aspect of life. I could make the argument that this forum has its own culture easily. So before you dismiss two full continents (well, really, you dismiss Australia as well because they are equally "young", so three continents) you may want to look at what we have accomplished in 250 short years.
I was going to defend my country, but he said it better.

So at what time does a country have cultrue? Is there a certain cutoff, say, 500 years. 1000 years? No, American culture started with the first colonies in Virginia. It already had a unique identity seperate from Europe. It's evolved in those 400 or so years, but it's always been distinct. Walk down the street of an American city, and you'll be able to tell you're in the US. It's just like how you can tell you're in Europe, or South America.

Don't go dismissing an entire continent when you've most likely never even been there, and if you have it was probably for a week. You have no idea what you're talking about.

There is definately an American culture. It is hard to notice for the same reason it is hard to see the whole of England while standing in Trafalgar Square. American culture is invisible because it is globally pervasive. American music, theater and media are a global standard. The bulk of 'pop' culture is American in origion. Now if you want to define culture as symphonies and great paintings then nobody has culture nor has had culture for a century...

So the crime rate stayed at a relatively lower level (which presumably is still rather high compared to OECD average). Good on you, although I'm not sure which policies could have caused that specifically.

As for "culture" - the US (as opposed to "America") of course has a culture. To say it is going "down hill" though is impossible, for we can't tell where it's going. We might be able to say that in 300AD Roman culture was going down hill, because we've got 1700 years to judge it by, but the Romans couldn't possibly have been able to tell.

Nonetheless, Jazz is a sub-culture and not shared by all, or even the majority of, US-Americans. But if the almost violent conflict between left and right continues to be engrained in US social life, and if the war on terror becomes a part of US culture, then I can at least say that I don't like where I project this is going.

Now if you want to define culture as symphonies and great paintings then nobody has culture nor has had culture for a century...
Well, I wouldn't go that far. It isn't nearly as much, but I am personally in love with Goreckis 3rd symphony (I really suggest that everyone listens to it). As for paintings, there are many that I love...perhaps not as great as say a cistine chaple or something like that...but still amazing in their own right. However, I very much agree with what you said.

As for "culture" - the US (as opposed to "America") of course has a culture. To say it is going "down hill" though is impossible, for we can't tell where it's going. We might be able to say that in 300AD Roman culture was going down hill, because we've got 1700 years to judge it by, but the Romans couldn't possibly have been able to tell.

Nonetheless, Jazz is a sub-culture and not shared by all, or even the majority of, US-Americans. But if the almost violent conflict between left and right continues to be engrained in US social life, and if the war on terror becomes a part of US culture, then I can at least say that I don't like where I project this is going.
Very true with that first paragraph. I would even say that maybe claiming a culture is going downhill isn't really true. It just changes and becomes a part of a different culture. Roman culture doesn't exist, but its all part of Western culture overall today

As for jazz, yes, it is a sub-culture. But every cultural movement is a sub-culture. Combine all sub-cultures, and you get the overall culture. The war on terror is currently a part of what I would say is pop-culture. It is important now and is a part of our culture. With any luck, it will stay just pop-culture. Maybe in 20 years it will be an enduring part of our culture, but I fear to imagine that

You are all using the word "culture" differently. Some are using it to mean "the arts". Some are using it to mean "societal norms". Some have no idea what they are talking about at all. You need a common definition before you will get anywhere here.

cul·ture Pronunciation Key (klchr)
n.

1.
1. The totality of socially transmitted behavior patterns, arts, beliefs, institutions, and all other products of human work and thought.
2. These patterns, traits, and products considered as the expression of a particular period, class, community, or population: Edwardian culture; Japanese culture; the culture of poverty.
3. These patterns, traits, and products considered with respect to a particular category, such as a field, subject, or mode of expression: religious culture in the Middle Ages; musical culture; oral culture.
4. The predominating attitudes and behavior that characterize the functioning of a group or organization.



Yes, of course the US has a culture. It's just not as well-rounded as it is in older nations, IMO.

Part the curtain behind so-called "popular culture" and you'll find a surprisingly robust and creative art, music and literary culture.

True enough but I would claim that popular culture is the only "culture" that matters. People forget that Shakesphere was very much a commercial playwright and that Charles Dickens was paid by the word. Those of their contemporaries who prated of "culture", like the belittlers who do today, wrote only for their "cultured" little set and for that reason sank into an obscurity that was completely earned. :rolleyes:

I'd say the real question is, does Europe or Canada have any culture? Living off the deeds of people who are long dead does not a culture make. Apart from J.K. Rowling what has Europe done to make anyone think it has a culture? ^_~

True enough but I would claim that popular culture is the only "culture" that matters. People forget that Shakesphere was very much a commercial playwright and that Charles Dickens was paid by the word. Those of their contemporaries who prated of "culture", like the belittlers who do today, wrote only for their "cultured" little set and for that reason sank into an obscurity that was completely earned. :rolleyes:

I'd say the real question is, does Europe or Canada have any culture? Living off the deeds of people who are long dead does not a culture make. Apart from J.K. Rowling what has Europe done to make anyone think it has a culture? ^_~
ahh...very true. Michelangelo, Da Vinci, all of them...their works were comissioned and paid for by wealthy families. We can't forget that all art is essentailly a business. Everyone has to eat.

Your just a moron.

Oh, the irony...

You are all using the word "culture" differently. Some are using it to mean "the arts". Some are using it to mean "societal norms". Some have no idea what they are talking about at all. You need a common definition before you will get anywhere here.
In general the thread is about "the arts". However, it is impossible to seperate the two fully. The arts are a materialization or the societal norms (or a reaction to those norms). However, both are directly tied to one another. Middle ages culture said that god was great and above all. The art in turn glorified god. However, later came along art that glorified Jean Paul Marat and put him into a Pieta like pose. They are both a materializaion and reaction to culture in the societal norm sense.

"American Culture" is but a hybrid of many sub-cultures, therefore, it can't go downhill. Think of it as a mutual fund.
Though many of this sub-cultures are more dominanant than others due to a variety of factors,( economic input, education, etc. ) the facade of the general culture is wrongly misrepresented by the more elitist groups;
I think that what is going down the hill is our hegemony in matters of international relevance due in large part to perceptions of Empire or aspirations as such spawned by unilateral actions that The U.S. has taken and which in the eyes of many violates the rights of States to exist or act without foreign interference or intervention.