NationStates Jolt Archive

This is a question if anything.

Aside from Monetheism, did the Kingdom of Israel bring anything else?

I know that throughout the medieval times, Jewish culture flourished in terms of intelligence. Medicine, Astrology and the like.

But did the ancient Israelites do anything?

Could they have done anything? Or would their scientific achievements, been the same as everyone else, thus they being no special then their neighbours.

I ask this because....when i wanted to see what else the Hebrews/Israelites brought aside from monotheism....i only get links about the danged monotheism.

So any history buffs around, that can give me the answer?

I think they were one of the first to believe in responsibility of one's self.

I think they were one of the first to believe in responsibility of one's self.

well even if true...not really what i was looking for. =\

BTW how did Israel stack up as a kingdom? Assume for the argument, that everything in the bible is true. How did we stack up to others?

This is a question if anything.

Aside from Monetheism, did the Kingdom of Israel bring anything else?

I know that throughout the medieval times, Jewish culture flourished in terms of intelligence. Medicine, Astrology and the like.

But did the ancient Israelites do anything?

Could they have done anything? Or would their scientific achievements, been the same as everyone else, thus they being no special then their neighbours.

I ask this because....when i wanted to see what else the Hebrews/Israelites brought aside from monotheism....i only get links about the danged monotheism.

So any history buffs around, that can give me the answer?

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0060915331/ref=sid_dp_dp/102-4938929-3912123?%5Fencoding=UTF8&v=glance

http://www.frontlist.com/detail/1403917663

http://www.law.pitt.edu/hibbitts/isr.htm

This may be getting at what you're looking for. I had a whole book on this subject in my house at one point, but I can't find it now.

I think they were one of the first to believe in responsibility of one's self.
What do you mean by that?

Be careful not to apply modern thinking into your analysis of ancient cultures.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0060915331/ref=sid_dp_dp/102-4938929-3912123?%5Fencoding=UTF8&v=glance

http://www.frontlist.com/detail/1403917663

http://www.law.pitt.edu/hibbitts/isr.htm

This may be getting at what you're looking for. I had a whole book on this subject in my house at one point, but I can't find it now.

Although i could get off my lazy butt and go to the library, i'd much rather look at in online. So what will it take, for you to find the book, and list some majro stuff they did.

My account? protection in RP? Men?

Leonstein- agreed...certain proof if anything. Although if they were the first in the region to introduce what Belator said...that is still the same thing in my eyes.

What do you mean by that?

Be careful not to apply modern thinking into your analysis of ancient cultures.

Simple. They believed if you made a mistake, or you wronged someone, it was your fault, and not God.

emmm.... biological warfare?

although that was done TO them by the Romans, so only in a way were responsible for that :D :p

Simple. They believed if you made a mistake, or you wronged someone, it was your fault, and not God.
Interesting, do you have any links on that?

I would've thought other cultures of the time would've thought the same way (except maybe the Egyptians and Sumerans)

PM- *whacks you* You are not helping...and i always thought the first people to use biological warfare were the Mongolians.

Wait, going off topic. >_<

Belator, Leonstein.....you can have your discussion on responsible relativity and the middle eastern cultures TGing eachother. Unless of course, one of you can prove right now the other is wrong. Or anyone else can.

Actually, I do. Doesn't it mention it several times in there bible?

And, I don't know how much we can say about the Ancient Israelis. They got shoved out of the land they were living in about 2000 years ago by the Palestines, so...

Umm... They invented matza. That doesn't really count for much though. Lesee here... Can't think of anything else.

This is a question if anything.

Aside from Monetheism, did the Kingdom of Israel bring anything else?



Isn't that enough to be ashamed of?

PM- *whacks you* You are not helping...and i always thought the first people to use biological warfare were the Mongolians.

Wait, going off topic. >_<


*sniff*

Fine then.....
*wanders off muttering about lack of funny bones on the internet*
;)

(the siege of jerusalem wasn't it? the romans catapulted diseased bodies over the walls? might be mistaken but i'm pretty sure that was the first recorded case of it.... anyways....)

Belator- For the love of G-d, do not turn this into a political thread! Please!

BTW.....technically the Romans conquered the Maccabean Jews. They just renamed the place Syria-Palestiniea, to piss them off, by renaming the country after the people they conquered it from.

Sheni- You are not helping either. If you do not know anything...please do not post.

Just for clarification, are you looking for scientific advances only, or would sociological advances also count as achievements?
Just so I know what to look for once I get home and start digging through my books.

Belator- For the love of G-d, do not turn this into a political thread! Please!

But Politics are fun! :p

Anyway, we can't really say much. Records weren't that good back then.

Isn't that enough to be ashamed of?

What introducing a sane religion, that didn't involve sacrificing children.

Don't blame us for how people use religion today.

We only fought in G-d's name, because he told the people themselves!

Not one crazy guy with the tinfoil hat...G-d told everyone.

That's what seperates us from Christianity and Islam, G-d talked to the people, so they would stop praying to Expensive Golden calves.

Just for clarification, are you looking for scientific advances only, or would sociological advances also count as achievements?
Just so I know what to look for once I get home and start digging through my books.

Anything, i'm having an argument with my friend, over the game Civilization, on if the ancient hebrews/israelites did enough to warrant such a position. They did lots of stuff in Medieval, Industrial and Modern times. But what about ancient?

Psychotic Mongooses- I'm sorry....i'll sacrifice a kitty to your god to show how sorry i am.

Psychotic Mongooses- I'm sorry....i'll sacrifice a kitty to your god to show how sorry i am.

:eek: AGH!!! :eek:

*runs away screaming, looking for Tiddles*

What introducing a sane religion, that didn't involve sacrificing children.

Don't blame us for how people use religion today.

We only fought in G-d's name, because he told the people themselves!

Not one crazy guy with the tinfoil hat...G-d told everyone.

That's what seperates us from Christianity and Islam, G-d talked to the people, so they would stop praying to Expensive Golden calves.
!!!!!!!
Do not, for the love of the gods, assume that ancient Israeli religion was anything like it is today! Figurines of cow-headed fertility goddesses have been found in ancient Israeli villages and temples.

Except if you were joking, in which case I excuse myself... :D

What introducing a sane religion, that didn't involve sacrificing children.

Don't blame us for how people use religion today.

We only fought in G-d's name, because he told the people themselves!

Not one crazy guy with the tinfoil hat...G-d told everyone.

That's what seperates us from Christianity and Islam, G-d talked to the people, so they would stop praying to Expensive Golden calves.

So, would it be a safe assumption that you're Jewish? (I am assuming this from how you write God. It's a fairly common convention in a lot of the Judaica I've got. From which it would be a fair assumption that I'm Jewish as well, too, yes.)

Having said that, I don't know that I'd agree with you on your point about Judaism being distinct from Christianity and Islam in how people converse with God; Christianity (and Islam, I believe) do not have anything in their core dogmas that prohibit adherents' communicating directly to God.

Anything, i'm having an argument with my friend, over the game Civilization, on if the ancient hebrews/israelites did enough to warrant such a position. They did lots of stuff in Medieval, Industrial and Modern times. But what about ancient?



Here's a silly question then. In Civ III, each civilization has a unique unit. (My fave is the Greek phalanx, as it's as strong defensively as musketmen. My least fave is the American F-15, as air power in Civ III isn't really useful.) What would the most fitting unique Israeli unit be?

Leonstein- No i wasn't joking, and i wouldn't be surprised. See apparently if G-d doesn't talk to the Jew's every day, they get bored, and find a religion that does. The only time we pray to G-d, is when we are in trouble...never to just say "Hey thanks, for always thinking about us"

I remember a teaching that said, that G-d thinks about us 24/7, and if he didn't think about even one person...even for a brief Anti-Googol second...he would cease to exist. =)

Lesser Bologna- Yupperz.

And i meant more along the lines of G-d talking to a group of people at once. I never heard of that in their religions. Although if it happened, then another learning lesson for me. =)

PM- Tiddles is safe....although Snuggles is another story.

Although i could get off my lazy butt and go to the library, i'd much rather look at in online. So what will it take, for you to find the book, and list some majro stuff they did.
It'll take something rougly approximating the Hannukah miracle - the last time I remember seeing it was at my old house. Hell if I know what made it over from that place. But I'll try.

Here's a silly question then. In Civ III, each civilization has a unique unit. (My fave is the Greek phalanx, as it's as strong defensively as musketmen. My least fave is the American F-15, as air power in Civ III isn't really useful.) What would the most fitting unique Israeli unit be?

Different mods contain different ideas, for the most Unique Unit, for them.

Some say the Maccabees, for the way they handled battles. They took the caves to their advantage, by forcing the Syrians, to use their left hand, because of the shield...or something i forgot.

Some say the Merkava, Israeli designed tank, very protective and it is its own.

There are reasonings for lots of things...Mossad, Merkava, Maccabee, Archer, Slingshotter, ISraeli Marines (forgot Hebrew name), or even the F16I.

So i dunno.......I'm more keen to the F16I, as reputation has it, they have the best trained air force in the world. And even teach American pilots. =)

Here's a silly question then. In Civ III, each civilization has a unique unit. (My fave is the Greek phalanx, as it's as strong defensively as musketmen. My least fave is the American F-15, as air power in Civ III isn't really useful.) What would the most fitting unique Israeli unit be?
Ancient versions of partisans. When fighting first a Greek offshoot and later the Romans, the Jews had mastered insurgency techniques and guerrilla warfare. No other nation or group was ever as at resisting a Roman presence. If I may go out on a limb, no other nation ever occupied by the Romans managed to kick them out (albeit they came back later, but you get my point).

On a side note, my favorite Civ III unit is the Immortal. That extra attack power really comes in handy.

That's what seperates us from Christianity and Islam, G-d talked to the people, so they would stop praying to Expensive Golden calves.

No, he didn't. And that's the problem. I know this because the Gods (<--notice the s) talked to me and said you are wrong.

Leonstein- No i wasn't joking, and i wouldn't be surprised. See apparently if G-d doesn't talk to the Jew's every day, they get bored, and find a religion that does. The only time we pray to G-d, is when we are in trouble...never to just say "Hey thanks, for always thinking about us"

I remember a teaching that said, that G-d thinks about us 24/7, and if he didn't think about even one person...even for a brief Anti-Googol second...he would cease to exist. =)

This is why I generally don't pray, except to say "Thanks." I imagine God's awfully busy; if God doesn't get to the thank-you card 'til later, it's okay.


Lesser Bologna- Yupperz.

Gosh darn it all to heck, you no-good blankety-blank! It's "Biglandia," not "Bologna!" What am I, chopped unidentifiable luncheon meat? ;)

It'll take something rougly approximating the Hannukah miracle - the last time I remember seeing it was at my old house. Hell if I know what made it over from that place. But I'll try.


Will burning a cat help? What if the cat heals after 8 days? Will it be a sign from G-d then? =D

No, he didn't. And that's the problem. I know this because the Gods (<--notice the s) talked to me and said you are wrong.
Can we not have one of those silly debates over the falsifiability of religion on this thread? Please?

...No other nation or group was ever as at resisting a Roman presence. If I may go out on a limb, no other nation ever occupied by the Romans managed to kick them out (albeit they came back later, but you get my point)...
What about us Germaniacs?
After Teutoburg quite a large area previously assumed as part of the empire* was quietly given up.

*edit

Sorry Bologna...i'm just hungry. =\

and i agree with Deleuze, no talks about religion! I could not care less, of you said you were Jesus, Mohammed, Moses and Vishnu's offspring.

I just want to know, of ancient israeli achivements

Why is it whenever there is a discussion on Israel, we must either rant on how evil they are to the arabs, or how they're bastards for introducing monotheism.

Can't we have a nice non political or religious discussion about them?! Just once?!

Can we not have one of those silly debates over the falsifiability of religion on this thread? Please?

Well don't present monotheism as a gift to the world then.

Lacadaemon- We are not here to debate religion, i consider it a gift to the world. End of discussion.

So anyone find anything yet?

generaly, the israelites did nothing important,
though don get me wrong the bringing about of monothiesm is very big. because this also brought about the two biggest religions in the world. there are those who believe that they did create the alphabet but they call it the alephbet. but who knows ifthats true.

generaly, the israelites did nothing important,
though don get me wrong the bringing about of monothiesm is very big. because this also brought about the two biggest religions in the world. there are those who believe that they did create the alphabet but they call it the alephbet. but who knows ifthats true.

Don't talk about monotheism your hurting Lacadaemon's feelings. =)

And i yes, we generally do refer to it as the Alephbet, as those are our first 2 letters.

generaly, the israelites did nothing important,
though don get me wrong the bringing about of monothiesm is very big.
I agree. There were plenty of small kingdoms that rose up and were swallowed at some point. I reckon they'd all have had pretty much the same type of society and culture, just as Germany and France aren't that different from each other today.
So the chances that one of them came up with something awesome and useful aren't all that huge.

I suggest the Greeks were a lot more useful to us.

What about us Germaniacs?
After Teutoburg quite a large area previously assumed as part of the area was quietly given up.
I use resistance here in the most technical sense, meaning continuing the fight after conquest in terms of an insurgency and rebellion organization. Therefore, preventing the Romans from advancing further is a different species of military prowess.

I use resistance here in the most technical sense, meaning continuing the fight after conquest in terms of an insurgency and rebellion organization. Therefore, preventing the Romans from advancing further is a different species of military prowess.
Okay, I'll give you that.
The Israelis of the Roman Era were quite influenced by Phoenician and Greek culture, and so they'd have thought more like we do.

The Germans meanwhile were climbing around in the trees.... :D

This discussion is rather entertaining...but i am more interested in Pre-Greco/Roman.

When we were a kingdom.

They were the first people to link religion with ethics and responsobility.

Don't talk about monotheism your hurting Lacadaemon's feelings. =)

And i yes, we generally do refer to it as the Alephbet, as those are our first 2 letters.

It's nothing to be proud of. You consider it a "gift"; well good for you. I am sure at other times other people considered denying you that a "gift" to.


In any event, monotheism has brought nothing but ruin and dissention upon the right thinking people of the western world.

I think they accomplished lots of smiting. Not as much as God though. God clearly smote more people than anyone.

well even if true...not really what i was looking for. =\

BTW how did Israel stack up as a kingdom? Assume for the argument, that everything in the bible is true. How did we stack up to others?
Under Kings David and Solomon, they were quite successful even by other accounts. The Israeli empire covered most of what is modern day Jordan and Syria, in addition to parts of Lebannon.

Under Kings David and Solomon, they were quite successful even by other accounts. The Israeli empire covered most of what is modern day Jordan and Syria, in addition to parts of Lebannon.
Now compare to Sumer, the Assyrians, the Accadians, the Hethites, the Egyptians, the Babylonians thec