NationStates Jolt Archive

NOTE: I got this in an email and thought we should take up a collection and have her flown to America; maybe give her a medal or something! :D

EDIT: Snopes.com has determined that this is an "urban legend," however, even as an urban legend it raises some very intriguing issues.


The Rambo Granny of Melbourne, Australia

Gun-toting granny Ava Estelle, 81, was so ticked-off when two thugs raped her 18-year-old granddaughter that she tracked the unsuspecting ex-cons down - - and shot off their testicles.

The old lady spent a week hunting those men down -- and when she found them, she took revenge on them in her own special way, said Melbourne (Australia) police investigator Evan Delp. Then she took a taxi to the nearest police station, laid the gun on the sergeant's desk and told him as calm as could be:

'Those bastards will never rape anybody again, by God.' Cops say convicted rapist and robber Davis Furth, 33, lost both his penis and his testicles when outraged Ava opened fire with a 9-mm pistol in the hotel room where he and former prison cellmate Stanley Thomas, 29, were holed up.

The wrinkled avenger also blew Thomas' testicles to kingdom come, but doctors managed to save his mangled penis, police said. The one guy, Thomas, didn't lose his manhood, but the doctor I talked to said he won't be using it the way he used to, Detective Delp told reporters. Both men are still in pretty bad shape, but I think they're just happy to be alive after what they've been through.

The Rambo Granny swung into action August 21 after her granddaughter Debbie was carjacked and raped in broad daylight by two knife-wielding creeps in a section of town bordering on skid row.

"When I saw the look on my Debbie's face that night in the hospital, I decided I was going to go out and get those bastards myself 'cause I figured the Law would go easy on them," recalled the retired library worker. "And I wasn't scared of them, either-- because I've got me a gun and I've been shootin' all my life. I wasn't dumb enough to turn it in when the law changed about owning one."

So, using a police artist's sketch of the suspects and Debbie's description of the sickos', tough-as-nails Ava spent seven days prowling the wino-infested neighborhood where the crime took place till she spotted the ill fated rapists entering their flophouse hotel.

I knew it was them the minute I saw 'em, but I shot a picture of 'em anyway and took it back to Debbie and she said sure as hell, it was them, the oldster recalled.

So I went back to that hotel and found their room and knocked on the door and the minute the big one, Furth, opened the door, I shot 'em right square between the legs, right where it would really hurt 'em most, you know.

Then I went in and shot the other one as he backed up pleading to me to spare him. Then I went down to the police station and turned myself in.

Now, baffled lawmen are trying to figure out exactly how to deal with the vigilante granny. What she did was wrong, and she broke the law, but it is difficult to throw an 81-year-old woman in prison, Det. Delp said, especially when 3 million people in the city want to nominate her for sainthood and a medal.

Didn't this happen some time ago? Whatever happened to her?

Genius. why isn't everyone like her?

The judge should throw the book at her. She should get no less than 50 hours of community service and a 30 day suspended jail sentence.

The judge should throw the book at her. She should get no less than 50 hours of community service and a 30 day suspended jail sentence.

I rather think a Victoria Cross is in order actually :D

I rather think a Victoria Cross is in order actually :D
No, we must deter vigilanteism. Civilized nations must abide by the rule of law. I think the sentence I proposed is just and fair.

No, we must deter vigilanteism. Civilized nations must abide by the rule of law. I think the sentence I proposed is just and fair.

I agree, however, a Vc is warranted, the court erpresent the will of the people after all

Rapists should probably be castrated anyways.

Not the nice chemical castration way either. But only if it's beyond any doubt that they did the deed.

Doesn't mean that civillians should take it upon themselves to do so.

Wheres the byline or dateline for this story? This story looks fake to me. I looked through a couple of big news databases - nothing about this.

Edit:
http://www.breakthechain.org/exclusives/rambogranny.html
turns out somebody agrees with me too

email.chainLetters != news;

All I can say about the rapists is:
OWNED (http://media.urbandictionary.com/image/large/owned-7163.jpg)

Snopes debunked - story is fake.

She should be jailed, with the maximum sentence for owning an illegal gun(as it seems it was), and assault with a deadly weapon.

I feel great pity for a society that wants to give a medal to a woman who hunted down two men for a week, and then shot them, in their home, vigilante style. Yes, the men deserved punishment. Its not a civilians place to give it.

She should be jailed, with the maximum sentence for owning an illegal gun(as it seems it was), and assault with a deadly weapon.

I feel great pity for a society that wants to give a medal to a woman who hunted down two men for a week, and then shot them, in their home, vigilante style. Yes, the men deserved punishment. Its not a civilians place to give it.

I'd feel pity for a society that wanted a couple of rapists to get a slap on the wrist, some lawyer manipulating 12 idiots into agreeing that they are diseased and need help, and a few months or a handful of years jailtime.

In any case it seems this story might not be true.

I'd feel pity for a society that wanted a couple of rapists to get a slap on the wrist, some lawyer manipulating 12 idiots into agreeing that they are diseased and need help, and a few months or a handful of years jailtime.

In any case it seems this story might not be true.

Give them harsher punishments, I can agree with that.

Vigilante justice, I cannot.

email.chainLetters != news;
No shit, Dick Tracy. What gave ya the first frackkin' clue?

Give them harsher punishments, I can agree with that.

Vigilante justice, I cannot.

Okay..

But I'm curious, you also cited the ownership of an "illegal gun." Do you really think a grandmotherly old woman should receive maximum punishment for something like that? Particularly as the punishment would be ridiculous anyway, probably greater than the punishment for rape.

She should be jailed, with the maximum sentence for owning an illegal gun(as it seems it was), and assault with a deadly weapon.

I feel great pity for a society that wants to give a medal to a woman who hunted down two men for a week, and then shot them, in their home, vigilante style. Yes, the men deserved punishment. Its not a civilians place to give it.
Bullshit. When the law has been so diluted and deluded that the only "punishment" meted out to violent criminals is a slap on the wrist and 20 hours of community service, civilians MUST "take the law into their own hands!" Thank God for places like North Carolina where a concerned citizen can obtain a concealed carry permit, own a weapon, and use it when the situation demands it!

vigilante justice lol
being able to kill someone - doesnt matter why - and getting away with it
thats the reason you all want guns
being a hero by killing/mutilate someone is the american dream... aint it?

vigilante justice lol
being able to kill someone - doesnt matter why - and getting away with it
thats the reason you all want guns
being a hero by killing/mutilate someone is the american dream... aint it?

No, the american dream is to be successful, have a peaceful and productive life, to not have anyone you know or like get raped, and to raise children who are able to express themselves better than you can.

No, the american dream is to be successful, have a peaceful and productive life, to not have anyone you know or like get raped, and to raise children who are able to express themselves better than you can.
oh, but im just a victim of the mass media, that makes me having bad thoughts about america
please dont shoot me

oh, but im just a victim of the mass media, that makes me having bad thoughts about america
please dont shoot me
Too late: :mp5:

I rather think a Victoria Cross is in order actually :D


Yes, not a bad idea

We can't let this situation continue. People, even if they are 81 year old grannies can't be allowed to take the law into their own hands like that. We can't allow people like this to work outside the law.

We should deputize Granny. :D

As if this wasn't spammy enough as an untrue chainletter, it had to be posted here. :rolleyes:

That's NOT cool. Not only is that vigilantism, but it involves shooting a man down there. That's NOT cool.

Well okay, a Rambo granny is pretty awesome. :) But overall - NOT cool. :(

Wheres the byline or dateline for this story? This story looks fake to me. I looked through a couple of big news databases - nothing about this.

Edit:
http://www.breakthechain.org/exclusives/rambogranny.html
turns out somebody agrees with me too
http://www.snopes.com/crime/justice/grambo.htm

^snopes says it's false.

Rape is probably the most difficult crime in the world to do anything about. Its hard to get the victims to come forwards, its hard to catch the people who did it, its virtually impossible in cases of consent to tell what the truth is, and a failure of justice on either side will ruin the lives of one or the other parties, in a way that theft or robbery does not. I mean, its not hard to conceive of a tv-drama style plotline that has a pissed off woman accusing a guy of rape when it was consentual. And the idea of a person who has done such a thing getting off is so reprehensible that you want to bring back the death penalty and suspend the "cruel and unusual" clause. So I really don't know what the solution to all this is.

No shit, Dick Tracy. What gave ya the first frackkin' clue?
Then why did you post it, Dr. Watson?

No, we must deter vigilanteism. Civilized nations must abide by the rule of law. I think the sentence I proposed is just and fair.
""They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security.
Benjamin Franklin
Vigilanteism tracked down two dagerous rapists. They weren't killed, so they still have the opportunity to experience due process in the Australian court system.
I have the right to prevent my being raped, therefore I will prevent the two Rapists in this room from raping me with the first method at my disposal: my gun.
Cannot argue with logic

Yes, vigilante justice is so awesome. It's especially great when the would be judge, jury, and executioner gets the wrong person. I can think of one particular case here in Canada where a guy was tortured and killed by four people because they thought he was a child molester. Turned out he wasn't. Not that the police and the judges never get it wrong, but they aren't going around maiming and killing people only to find out later they got the wrong person.

Send her to America! I'll force bush to give her a presidential award for sheer awesomeness.

As if this wasn't spammy enough as an untrue chainletter, it had to be posted here. :rolleyes:
Poor baby. :p

http://www.snopes.com/crime/justice/grambo.htm

^snopes says it's false.
They also say: "Okay, so we can't believe the story. We still want to, though." :)

Bullshit. When the law has been so diluted and deluded that the only "punishment" meted out to violent criminals is a slap on the wrist and 20 hours of community service, civilians MUST "take the law into their own hands!" Thank God for places like North Carolina where a concerned citizen can obtain a concealed carry permit, own a weapon, and use it when the situation demands it!

And the law in north carolina, if followed, would almost defidentally find this woman guilty of assualt with a deadly weapon, assuming no tainted jury, etc.

If citizens are allowed to break the law whenever they don't like it, then the breakdown of society is imminent. This is one of the few times where, in my mind, the ends don't justify the means.

And the law in north carolina, if followed, would almost defidentally find this woman guilty of assualt with a deadly weapon, assuming no tainted jury, etc.

If citizens are allowed to break the law whenever they don't like it, then the breakdown of society is imminent. This is one of the few times where, in my mind, the ends don't justify the means.
Which means that if there's a draft, and your name comes up, you have to go even though you don't think the war is a "just" one? Hmmm.

You're correct, of course. Vigiliantism is indeed a crime and must be treated as such. However, should some pedophile or rapist molest one of the women in my family they will die, and I will then live with the consequences. And that, dear Chellis, is one of the few times, in my mind, when the ends more than justify the means. :)

Which means that if there's a draft, and your name comes up, you have to go even though you don't think the war is a "just" one? Hmmm.

You're correct, of course. Vigiliantism is indeed a crime and must be treated as such. However, should some pedophile or rapist molest one of the women in my family they will die, and I will then live with the consequences. And that, dear Chellis, is one of the few times, in my mind, when the ends more than justify the means. :)

Even if I didn't think the war was a just one, if there was a Draft, you bet your ass I would go(in all but one situation, which I don't want to speak about. Needless to say, its an unlikely one, and one where I would be willing to take the consequences for.).

I'm in the army, and I think the war in Iraq is unjust. That didn't stop me from voluntary enlistment. I signed up for Eleven Bravo, even though I could have gone for a much less risky job. And my Asvab was plenty high enough for any job I wanted.

If you shot someone who raped one of the women in your family, I would agree with you that its a good thing to happen, to the person who did it. My problem is with vigilante's. The law should be blind to a victims past crimes. If you are willing to live with the consequences of being a vigilante, go for it. But those consequences must stay, and be imposed.

How would you feel, for example, if the person you shot and killed turned out to be the wrong person? Or it had been consensual? I know you would probably try to make sure you knew these things first, but there's a much larger risk of these things happening with vigilante's, than with a judicial system.

I agree that rape should have harsher punishments. Write your congressman, your senator, etc. Don't take the law into your own hands, or you might crush it with those mighty fingers that kill.

Euty and others, you've fallen a fake!

snopes (http://www.snopes.com/crime/justice/grambo.htm)
Sorry, but this February 2000 e-mail is a fanciful tale of imagined revenge and nothing more -- searches of Australian news archives fail to turn up news stories featuring any of the people named in the account, reports about the shootings of the rapists, or the rape that supposedly sparked the retribution. Those living in the area also fail to recall seeing anything about this on the nightly news.

Moreover, in March 2000, an Australian newspaper referred to the already Internet-speeded story as "a good urban myth."

And the fact that Dakini, JiangGuo, and Armorvia busted it above with , but some people still seem to be treating it as true gives me reason to doubt the education systems of the world.

Don't believe everything you read, people. And that most especially goes for emailed stories of this sort and those stupid and annoying "amazing facts lists".

I have the right to prevent my being raped, therefore I will prevent the two Rapists in this room from raping me with the first method at my disposal: my gun.
Cannot argue with logic

The situation you describe is self defense. What was in the letter (albeit false) comes across as vigilanteism.

Huh? WTF? I live in Melbourne. Why didn't I hear about this?

EDIT- Oh. It's fake. Thought so - such weapons are illegal over here. Not only would she have been completely able to call the police (as, of course, she knew where the rapists were), but she also would have been in possession of an illegal weapon.

Huh? WTF? I live in Melbourne. Why didn't I hear about this?

Because, as four different posters have pointed out (including myself two posts above yours), it did not happen!

This e-mail is a well known fake. The fact that people here are falling for it even though it's been busted repeatedly in this thread makes me wonder about the general level of reading comprehension among posters here. (>.<)

Huh? WTF? I live in Melbourne. Why didn't I hear about this?

EDIT- Oh. It's fake. Thought so - such weapons are illegal over here. Not only would she have been completely able to call the police (as, of course, she knew where the rapists were), but she also would have been in possession of an illegal weapon.

Sorry, I missed your edit. ;)

I will say that the number of people who have actually applied analytical minds to this at least balances out the number of people who can't seem to read.

Sorry, I missed your edit. ;)

I will say that the number of people who have actually applied analytical minds to this at least balances out the number of people who can't seem to read.

Heh...If there's one positive thing that has come from this thread, it's that once again, I've witnessed why I really should read the entire thread before posting. :p

Heh...If there's one positive thing that has come from this thread, it's that once again, I've witnessed why I really should read the entire thread before posting. :p

Yep. Again and again I read an OP that I have a perfect response to, only to find that somewhere in the fifty jillion responses three other people had the same perfect response. But sometimes it just needs to be repeated and repeated

Sometimes it's enough to drive a man to drink...
;).

Sometimes it's enough to drive a man to drink...
;).

Hahaha...sounds like a good idea to me! :D

Don't mess with that granny. You'll lose your manhood! :)

even if this aint true, rapist get to off to light, they deserve their nads blown to kingdom come! hell if this 81 year old granny wants to do it fine, let her, but give her a shotgun make sure she gets it all!

Vigiliante justice is so primitive, I can't believe people support it. Even in a false case.

I remember one case where a mob hunted down a paediatrician because the backward morons got it confused with a paedophile :headbang:

Wow that woman's amazing.

Anyone here who thinks that she should be jailed, ask yourself - wouldn't you do the same? Knowing what the law's like on rapists - under 10 years often, and then they go fuck up some other girl's life - she did what most people do. I don't support vigilanteism, but really, most of us would go ballistic in the same situation.

I don't see what it achieves to be honest

Eut, please edit the original post so people know it is fake. :)

I don't see what it achieves to be honest
(I know it's fake) It would achieve a lack of any further rapes, something which the law does not do. Maybe the vigilante killings will stop when the law gives them more than 10 years, and takes some responsibility for its citizens' welfare.

(I know it's fake) It would achieve a lack of any further rapes, something which the law does not do. Maybe the vigilante killings will stop when the law gives them more than 10 years, and takes some responsibility for its citizens' welfare.

Whatever happened to "Innocent until proven guilty"?

Whatever happened to "Innocent until proven guilty"? Ach, I said I don't support vigilanteism. However, a tough sentence - or much of a sentence - (hypothetically) should not be given to this woman. I know that in her position I'd do the same… if I were a woman with grandchildren, which is highly unlikely.
Real vigilante justice is more going out looking for criminals or people you think are criminals - which is much worse.
Really, when something like that happens often you're beyond rational thought.

(I know it's fake) It would achieve a lack of any further rapes, something which the law does not do. Maybe the vigilante killings will stop when the law gives them more than 10 years, and takes some responsibility for its citizens' welfare.

So, you're choosing to ignore evidence that shows that longer sentances have none to negligible effect on re-offending rates?

Eut, please edit the original post so people know it is fake. :)
Did and done. Thanks for the reminder. As you may suppose, my mind really isn't 100% effective these days. My apologies to all who may have been misled. :(

So, you're choosing to ignore evidence that shows that longer sentances have none to negligible effect on re-offending rates?
( shrug ) I don't see that as a problem. Lock their asses up and throw away the key.

I don't see what it achieves to be honest
Please say more about this.

So, you're choosing to ignore evidence that shows that longer sentances have none to negligible effect on re-offending rates? No, I'm not. My friends have called me a "bleeding-heart liberal" on occasion, so don't get the wrong perception of my views. However, longer sentences do indeed prevent the imprisoned rapists from raping someone else. Short sentences for a crime this bad is simply irresponsible - for instance, a case in England where a sentence of seven years was given - now, I think parole is a good thing, but in this case, the same rapist would be let out maybe in five years' time, so some other poor girl would get the same done to her.

Basically, it's called practicality. Rape isn't a common crime, so the prison overcrowding wouldn't get too much worse (and prison oughtn't to be used as the only form of gaol).

Please say more about this.

What could be the reasoning behind it?

Revenge: I'd like to think we've moved on from giving into primitive instincts liket that

Stop re-offending: (as has been mainly suggested), I think a far more sensible and responsible approach would be to try to rehabilitate and re-educate these individuals with in the legal framework and give them a chance to get a little back from their lives rather than ruining it forever (yes, I know the girl had her life affected forever but putting the same punishment on the criminals hardly solves that)

No, I'm not. My friends have called me a "bleeding-heart liberal" on occasion, so don't get the wrong perception of my views. However, longer sentences do indeed prevent the imprisoned rapists from raping someone else. Short sentences for a crime this bad is simply irresponsible - for instance, a case in England where a sentence of seven years was given - now, I think parole is a good thing, but in this case, the same rapist would be let out maybe in five years' time, so some other poor girl would get the same done to her.

Basically, it's called practicality. Rape isn't a common crime, so the prison overcrowding wouldn't get too much worse (and prison oughtn't to be used as the only form of gaol).

Unless you're suggesting 30 year + sentances, the evidence doesn't really back up the view that the longer the sentance, the less chance of re-offending.

What could be the reasoning behind it?

Revenge: I'd like to think we've moved on from giving into primitive instincts liket that

Stop re-offending: (as has been mainly suggested), I think a far more sensible and responsible approach would be to try to rehabilitate and re-educate these individuals with in the legal framework and give them a chance to get a little back from their lives rather than ruining it forever (yes, I know the girl had her life affected forever but putting the same punishment on the criminals hardly solves that) However, the law DOESN'T do that at the moment. These rapists would have been given fairly short sentences and no one would come out of this affair any better. Ultimately, where the law fails, peopl will take up justice themselves - and that's a symptom of a real problem that needs to be fixed.

What could be the reasoning behind it?

Revenge: I'd like to think we've moved on from giving into primitive instincts liket that

Stop re-offending: (as has been mainly suggested), I think a far more sensible and responsible approach would be to try to rehabilitate and re-educate these individuals with in the legal framework and give them a chance to get a little back from their lives rather than ruining it forever (yes, I know the girl had her life affected forever but putting the same punishment on the criminals hardly solves that)
I don't have any link for this ( mostly because I can't be arsed, as our British friends are want to say. ), but I recall that recidivism rates for rapists, and particularly for pedophiles, are very high. Perhaps surgical castration? [ cringes ]

Fair dues to this woman! There should be more ppl like her. I'm not in favour of ppl taking the law into your own hands but I think rape is beyond dispicable. These men deserve this 100%.

Unless you're suggesting 30 year + sentances, the evidence doesn't really back up the view that the longer the sentance, the less chance of re-offending. I am suggesting life sentences in cases of rape (Come on, it's not like it's a petty crime, it's one of the worst there is). It's the second worst violent crime - second only to murder. It's the only viable option, really - the other option is to let rapists free on the streets, which isn't really a great option.

Ach, I said I don't support vigilanteism. However, a tough sentence - or much of a sentence - (hypothetically) should not be given to this woman. I know that in her position I'd do the same… if I were a woman with grandchildren, which is highly unlikely.
Real vigilante justice is more going out looking for criminals or people you think are criminals - which is much worse.
Really, when something like that happens often you're beyond rational thought.

Ooops, sorry, I missed reading that post. Anyhow - I disagree. According to our laws, that weapon would be illegal to own in the first place. She would have then gone and used it with the intent to greviously injure. That is a very serious offence. Seeing how she obviously knew where the rapists were, she also did not inform the police when she could have.

No, I don't believe in an overly harsh penalty considering the motive. But this woman would not have been a hero had the scenario have been real.

Did and done. Thanks for the reminder. As you may suppose, my mind really isn't 100% effective these days. My apologies to all who may have been misled. :(

Hehe, it's all okay. You're not the first to post an article like that without realising, and you won't be the last :D

Ooops, sorry, I missed reading that post. Anyhow - I disagree. According to our laws, that weapon would be illegal to own in the first place. She would have then gone and used it with the intent to greviously injure. That is a very serious offence. Seeing how she obviously knew where the rapists were, she also did not inform the police when she could have.

No, I don't believe in an overly harsh penalty considering the motive. But this woman would not have been a hero had the scenario have been real. Perhaps not a hero, but not a villain either. She did what many of us would probably do, especially if it was a relative. She did (fictionally of course) say that it was the way the girl looked that drove her over the edge.

Thats fake. Completely fake. The way its written should have given it away

Wow that woman's amazing.

Anyone here who thinks that she should be jailed, ask yourself - wouldn't you do the same? Knowing what the law's like on rapists - under 10 years often, and then they go fuck up some other girl's life - she did what most people do. I don't support vigilanteism, but really, most of us would go ballistic in the same situation.

I probably wouldn't have. It wouldn't be worth the prison term I would deserve, to shoot these people. This isn't an altruistic world, and I won't be the first one to give my life for others.

Hurray, Hurray, Hurray, or
Hurrah, Hurrah, Hurrah.

She reminds me of Granny, Daisy Moses, Irene Ryan,
on the Beverly Hillbillies TV Show.

Punishment that fits the crime,
in the British Virgin Islands,
if you kill someone, someone will kill you,
if you shoot someone to death, someone
will shoot you to death,
if you stab someone to death, someone
will stab you to death,
if you strangle someone to death, someone
wil strangle you to death,.

In the Arab nations you can get your arm
or hand cut off for stealing.

What Granny did, is punishment that fits the crime.

Hurray, Hurray, Hurray, or
Hurrah, Hurrah, Hurrah.

She reminds me of Granny, Daisy Moses, Irene Ryan,
on the Beverly Hillbillies TV Show.

Punishment that fits the crime,
in the British Virgin Islands,
if you kill someone, someone will kill you,
if you shoot someone to death, someone
will shoot you to death,
if you stab someone to death, someone
will stab you to death,
if you strangle someone to death, someone
wil strangle you to death,.

In the Arab nations you can get your arm
or hand cut off for stealing.

What Granny did, is punishment that fits the crime.
:D