NationStates Jolt Archive

Ok, the question is simple. Mace Windu vs. Kirk and his entire crew.

Hrm...

Phasers Vs. Lightsaber

Why do you even need to ASK!?

What they don't want you to know (http://www.salon.com/ent/movies/feature/1999/06/15/brin_main/index.html)

one guy versus a starship?even if it is mace windu surely he doesnt stand a chance

one guy versus a starship?even if it is mace windu surely he doesnt stand a chance

Not vs the ship. Vs the crew of said ship.

What they don't want you to know (http://www.salon.com/ent/movies/feature/1999/06/15/brin_main/index.html)

I like where this guy is coming from, and that is a KICKASS picture.

What they don't want you to know (http://www.salon.com/ent/movies/feature/1999/06/15/brin_main/index.html)

That was funny as hell. Thanks.

What they don't want you to know (http://www.salon.com/ent/movies/feature/1999/06/15/brin_main/index.html)
Unless it's tongue in cheek, that was a ridiculous reading of Star Wars.

kirk's crew would win hands down for the following reasons:
1. light sabres wouldn't work in real life
2. light passes right through light so they couldn't reflect lasers and such
3. they would shoot him with a phaser set on kill, and he would be vaporized





P.S. join the region "United Federation of Planets".

kirk's crew would win hands down for the following reasons:
1. light sabres wouldn't work in real life
2. light passes right through light so they couldn't reflect lasers and such
3. they would shoot him with a phaser set on kill, and he would be vaporized

:rolleyes:

Yes, light sabers don't work in real life, just like warp drive, transporters, phasers, and sound in space.

:rolleyes:

Unless it's tongue in cheek, that was a ridiculous reading of Star Wars.
You realize that there is a ridiculous amount of despotism in Star Wars and Star Trek, don't you?

kirk's crew would win hands down for the following reasons:
1. light sabres wouldn't work in real life
2. light passes right through light so they couldn't reflect lasers and such
3. they would shoot him with a phaser set on kill, and he would be vaporized





P.S. join the region "United Federation of Planets".

ahem
How lightsabers work (http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/lightsaber.htm)

You realize that there is a ridiculous amount of despotism in Star Wars and Star Trek, don't you?
Yes, but in Star Wars (I'm not particularly familiar with Star Trek), it's always portrayted negatively; "The evil dictators against the heroic forces of democrcay."

Wow... Mace would rip their sorry asses apart. He's a freaking jedi. They're the equivalent of modern day Naval sailors, albeit with weapons that shoot "phase beams" instead of bullets (really, they're isnt too much of a difference, the premise is pretty much the same.) If anybody watched the short cartoon series called "clone wars" on Cartoon Network, Mace destroyed literally HUNDREDS of battle droids.

Yes, but in Star Wars (I'm not particularly familiar with Star Trek), it's always portrayted negatively; "The evil dictators against the heroic forces of democrcay."
The Republic, the one the Rebels want to reinstate, was nothing but rule by an elite you couldn't even choose.

This ain't a real match-up. 100 ISD's vs. Starfleet might be.

old dudes with phasers vs a force-fuelled jedi master with a lightsabre? seeing how even crappier jedi's (that aren't windu) can mow through armies of killer robots that are nothing more than walking phaser banks, i don't think its a fair fight - obviously windu would win :rolleyes:

but if it was windu vs the enterprise, i'd settle for the thousand ton photon-torpedo launching spaceship any day.



hows this one: all the jedi vs the borg?

Wow... Mace would rip their sorry asses apart. He's a freaking jedi. They're the equivalent of modern day Naval sailors, albeit with weapons that shoot "phase beams" instead of bullets (really, they're isnt too much of a difference, the premise is pretty much the same.) If anybody watched the short cartoon series called "clone wars" on Cartoon Network, Mace destroyed literally HUNDREDS of battle droids.
Hundreds of battledroids, yes. *But* people? The Jedi are not keen on mowing down average joes. The crew are obviously not Evil which is going to put a bummer on good old Maces' fighting spirit.
Whatever violence was to be had at the start would quickly settle down to both sides just glaring at each other. I suppose the crew would then do a quick conference to elect one of their members as champion ( Spock? ) for an honorable, & most likely nonlethal, contest.

"The Mirror Universe" crew could make for an interesting free-for-all. They might spend more effort going after each other though - rather than the funky quasimagical kung-fu stranger. At least that should be reason enough for a Jedi to give them all a good thumping.

Kirk would build a rocket launcher out of random elements he found on the ground.

Come on, let's face it, Kirk has taken on Gods, big lizards, Strange energy beings and even a big planet-eating machine.

The Republic, the one the Rebels want to reinstate, was nothing but rule by an elite you couldn't even choose.

...You realize The Republic was being subtly controlled by Palpatine?

And another thing, even if democracy didn't work well, Senators still got voted into office. By the people.

Hundreds of battledroids, yes. *But* people? The Jedi are not keen on mowing down average joes. The crew are obviously not Evil which is going to put a bummer on good old Maces' fighting spirit.
Whatever violence was to be had at the start would quickly settle down to both sides just glaring at each other. I suppose the crew would then do a quick conference to elect one of their members as champion ( Spock? ) for an honorable, & most likely nonlethal, contest.

"The Mirror Universe" crew could make for an interesting free-for-all. They might spend more effort going after each other though - rather than the funky quasimagical kung-fu stranger. At least that should be reason enough for a Jedi to give them all a good thumping.



Jedi dont "like" to kill people, but that doesnt mean they get squeamish.

Jango Fett.

He stepped up to Windu.
It went poorly for him.

Kirk and his boys aint even half as dangerous as Fett.

Clone troopers.
They were human..just manufactured ones.
The Jedi cut them down like butter when they had to.

Windu would quickly wipe the floor with them, and quote Ezekiel 25:17 while he did it.

What they don't want you to know (http://www.salon.com/ent/movies/feature/1999/06/15/brin_main/index.html)

What David Brin doesn't want you to know. (http://stardestroyer.net/Empire/HateMail/Brin.html)

I guess it depends, hand to hand fight, I'd have to give credit to the Jedi as they are far more adept at it (though watching Jedi vs Vulcan would be entertaining).

If they could call on their respective ships, it would be over quickly if Windu REALLY managed to annoy Kirk.

Kirk: Enterprise, lock... onto the man... 10 meters away... beam him into... space.
Scott: Aye, sir. Energizing now.

I guess it depends, hand to hand fight, I'd have to give credit to the Jedi as they are far more adept at it (though watching Jedi vs Vulcan would be entertaining).

To put it simply, it seems that the Star Trek crew rely more on fisticuffs for their hand to hand combat while the Jedi rely on more acrobatic means of attack. Advantage goes to the Jedi. Never saw how the Vulcans did hand to hand combat so I can't comment on that.


If they could call on their respective ships, it would be over quickly if Windu REALLY managed to annoy Kirk.

Kirk: Enterprise, lock... onto the man... 10 meters away... beam him into... space.
Scott: Aye, sir. Energizing now.

If they were in their respective ships wouldn't Windu be in a shielded battlecruiser or something? And the effects of shields on transporters has more or less been made something of a dead horse. They don't work on shielded targets.

{snip}
Kirk: Enterprise, lock... onto the man... 10 meters away... beam him into... space.
Scott: Aye, sir. Energizing now.
Oddly, I see this all panning out somewhat differently:
---
[Kirk] - Enterprise, lock... onto the man... 10 meters away... beam him into... the Brig.
[Scott] - Aye, sir. Energizing now.

( Change of scene. Moments later - The Enterprise Bridge. )

[Kirk] - Well? What is he?
[Spock] - My analysis remains inconclusive.
[McCoy] - Big surprise.
[Spock] - This much we do know. The alien entity has repeatably demonstrated remarkable abilities to resist any form of technological coercion.
[McCoy] - And so?
[Spock] - Dumping him in the Brig is not a wise decision.
( Kirk ponders this. )
[Kirk] - Scotty! I'm gonna need warp 8 in a moment. Helm! Lay in a course for ...

( Change of scene. The Enterprise Brig. )

[Windu] - That was odd.

( Windu takes all of 30 seconds to break out. He then starts looking for the bridge so as to demand an explanation. )

( Change of scene. The Enterprise Bridge. )

[Random H. Crewmember] - We are now in standard orbit over Ceti Alpha 5, sir.
[Kirk] - Right. Beam his ass on down there.

( Change of scene. The Botany Bay. )

[Kahn] - Oh great. This place just keeps getting better & better.. Who are you and what are you doing on my planet!

Star Trek wins, no contest what so ever. Force Powers and a lightsaber can't combare to the sheer power of phasers, and if Spock's there then that SEVERELY is unfair to Mace.

I just feel bad for Ensign Ricky (security guy in the Redshirt), who would invariably be sent to "investigate" Mace's intentions.

Ensign Ricky: DROP THAT WEAPON!

(schwack)

Bones: He's dead, Jim.

ahem
How lightsabers work (http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/lightsaber.htm)

Ahem:
Well, that's how they would work.
Lightsabers are only a figment of George Lucas' imagination, of course. This is an entirely fictional article, based on information in Star Wars movies and books.

Aaanyways. I think Windu would win, but this topic is reasonably pointless. It should be entitled "Do you like Star Wars or Star Trek Better?", because everyone will automatically claim that their favorite would win.

Aaanyways. I think Windu would win, but this topic is reasonably pointless. It should be entitled "Do you like Star Wars or Star Trek Better?", because everyone will automatically claim that their favorite would win.

We have a winner! (And yes, Windu would kick all their collective asses)

What David Brin doesn't want you to know. (http://stardestroyer.net/Empire/HateMail/Brin.html)
David Brine is teh PWNZRD.

I guess it depends, hand to hand fight, I'd have to give credit to the Jedi as they are far more adept at it (though watching Jedi vs Vulcan would be entertaining).

If they could call on their respective ships, it would be over quickly if Windu REALLY managed to annoy Kirk.

Kirk: Enterprise, lock... onto the man... 10 meters away... beam him into... space.
Scott: Aye, sir. Energizing now.


whats Spock gonna do against a guy who can move faster than the Vulcan eye can follow, if he so chooses, carries a lightsaber that can easily reflect energy weapons like phasers, and is one of the most profiecient hand to hand warriors alive?

Get his vulcan ass sliced and diced?

Depends on two things.

1. Can phasers be blocked by lightsabers?

2. Could the phasers the enterprise used be set to the spread function?(Dunno about the ones kirk's crew used, they used them on voyager...)

If one is no, or two is yes, then Windu loses. Otherwise, he wins.

What they don't want you to know (http://www.salon.com/ent/movies/feature/1999/06/15/brin_main/index.html)

When will the goddamned trekkies die already?

Depends on two things.

1. Can phasers be blocked by lightsabers?

2. Could the phasers the enterprise used be set to the spread function?(Dunno about the ones kirk's crew used, they used them on voyager...)

If one is no, or two is yes, then Windu loses. Otherwise, he wins.


Also, keep in mind the Jedi's ability to predict the immediate future.
Windu would know what the Enterprise crew were about to do, before they even did it.

Besides, the only ones with actual fighting skills among Kirks boys are Spock, and Kirk himself.
Spocks an uber-genius, and generally tougher than humans..so he might actually be able to take a few shots to the face from Windu.
Krk, while certainly no martial artist, has the "white-man, American Brawler" thing going for him, so lets assume he takes a few to the chin, and keeps getting back up.

That leaves Sulu , the only asian re-occuring character, never to know karate, or kung-fu. (Good job, Gene , way to not be stereotypical.)
No real help in a fight, unless armed with a gun.

Chekov. ...enemy wessel.
Not so much in the fighting stuff either.

Scotty
"If its broken, I'll point a phaser at it to recharge the dilitium crystals".
Engineering wiz.
Not Bruce Lee.

Bones:
Useless, unless someone is injured.


So, since phasers can be avoided by Windu, either from having a precognitave ability to evade them, or, simply riposting the crews phaser beams back at the attackers, we can be reasonably sure that the Enterprise gang, not being stupid, would not keep shooting.

Thus it would come down to hand to hand combat.

In wich case, lets assume Windu, being a chivalrous type, would meet his opponents, unarmed.
Were going to assume this, becuase if not, Windu wins right here, chopping them into tiny slices, in the blink of an eye.
Thats no fun, is it?

Unarmed, the Enterprise guys stand a better chance, and have the advantage of numbers.
However, being a Jedi, means you have some nifty powers at your disposal.
Like the abilty to have your strength, stamina, and speed accelerated to superhuman levels.

Now take into accord that Windu is no average Jedi.
The guy was as bad ass, as Yoda was wise.
Jedi Master, and practitioner of a particular style that whips so much ass, its considered "questionable" in the fact it walks a fine line between the good and evil sides of the force.

So, in short, Windu is far more dangerous, than the already formidable average jedi.

With that in mind, its no contest, Windu still wins.

Now Ive got my nerd-on.

Oddly, I see this all panning out somewhat differently:
---
[Kirk] - Enterprise, lock... onto the man... 10 meters away... beam him into... the Brig.
[Scott] - Aye, sir. Energizing now.

( Change of scene. Moments later - The Enterprise Bridge. )

[Kirk] - Well? What is he?
[Spock] - My analysis remains inconclusive.
[McCoy] - Big surprise.
[Spock] - This much we do know. The alien entity has repeatably demonstrated remarkable abilities to resist any form of technological coercion.
[McCoy] - And so?
[Spock] - Dumping him in the Brig is not a wise decision.
( Kirk ponders this. )
[Kirk] - Scotty! I'm gonna need warp 8 in a moment. Helm! Lay in a course for ...

( Change of scene. The Enterprise Brig. )

[Windu] - That was odd.

( Windu takes all of 30 seconds to break out. He then starts looking for the bridge so as to demand an explanation. )

( Change of scene. The Enterprise Bridge. )

[Random H. Crewmember] - We are now in standard orbit over Ceti Alpha 5, sir.
[Kirk] - Right. Beam his ass on down there.

( Change of scene. The Botany Bay. )

[Kahn] - Oh great. This place just keeps getting better & better.. Who are you and what are you doing on my planet!


LOL. That's brilliant. ;)

Krk, while certainly no martial artist, has the "white-man, American Brawler" thing going for him, so lets assume he takes a few to the chin, and keeps getting back up.

Maybe, but he's going to need this accessory after taking one to the chin with a lightsaber. :p

http://www.jenscornelis.de/weblog/malak.jpg


So, since phasers can be avoided by Windu, either from having a precognitave ability to evade them, or, simply riposting the crews phaser beams back at the attackers, we can be reasonably sure that the Enterprise gang, not being stupid, would not keep shooting.

You never know. Kirk has this whole "Yeehaaw! Shoot em up boys!" mentality to it. He was always portrayed as someone who went "If I can't screw it, I can shoot it"

If Windu deflected them back, Kirk would be a crispy critter.

LOL. That's brilliant. ;)
*Thank* *You* ;)

Man ... the things one comes up with in the middle of the morning shower.

Edit:
I guess it depends, hand to hand fight,{snip}{etc}
And a big "thank you" to Nervun. Credit to you for getting me rolling. :)

{snip}
Chekov. ...enemy wessel.
{snip}
No no no, oh dear Gawd no. Please make it stop. Oh dear Gawd somebody help me! Bah, here I go again.

Instead of:

[Chekov] - enemy wessel.

I see it more along the lines of:

[Chekov] - enemy wedi ahead sir!

No no no no ENOUGH! THAT'S IT!

<* runs screaming away from the keyboard *>

Also, keep in mind the Jedi's ability to predict the immediate future.
Windu would know what the Enterprise crew were about to do, before they even did it.

Besides, the only ones with actual fighting skills among Kirks boys are Spock, and Kirk himself.
Spocks an uber-genius, and generally tougher than humans..so he might actually be able to take a few shots to the face from Windu.
Krk, while certainly no martial artist, has the "white-man, American Brawler" thing going for him, so lets assume he takes a few to the chin, and keeps getting back up.

That leaves Sulu , the only asian re-occuring character, never to know karate, or kung-fu. (Good job, Gene , way to not be stereotypical.)
No real help in a fight, unless armed with a gun.

Chekov. ...enemy wessel.
Not so much in the fighting stuff either.

Scotty
"If its broken, I'll point a phaser at it to recharge the dilitium crystals".
Engineering wiz.
Not Bruce Lee.

Bones:
Useless, unless someone is injured.


So, since phasers can be avoided by Windu, either from having a precognitave ability to evade them, or, simply riposting the crews phaser beams back at the attackers, we can be reasonably sure that the Enterprise gang, not being stupid, would not keep shooting.

Thus it would come down to hand to hand combat.

In wich case, lets assume Windu, being a chivalrous type, would meet his opponents, unarmed.
Were going to assume this, becuase if not, Windu wins right here, chopping them into tiny slices, in the blink of an eye.
Thats no fun, is it?

Unarmed, the Enterprise guys stand a better chance, and have the advantage of numbers.
However, being a Jedi, means you have some nifty powers at your disposal.
Like the abilty to have your strength, stamina, and speed accelerated to superhuman levels.

Now take into accord that Windu is no average Jedi.
The guy was as bad ass, as Yoda was wise.
Jedi Master, and practitioner of a particular style that whips so much ass, its considered "questionable" in the fact it walks a fine line between the good and evil sides of the force.

So, in short, Windu is far more dangerous, than the already formidable average jedi.

With that in mind, its no contest, Windu still wins.

Now Ive got my nerd-on.

But my second question, about the spread-fire phasers...

I dont think he could really dodge three or four crewmembers, firing these at him at once. Sure, he would mow down the first twenty or thirty, but sooner or later, they would realize he can dodge regular phaser shots.

Lets put it this way. The voyager crew would win. Enterprise, harder to say ;)

Lets put it this way. The voyager crew would win.

The Voyager crew would be too busy trying to respect his 'culture' and sitting around a table discussing their options to do anything about him at all until the last ten minutes of the episode, when they'd eject the warp core, blow up the ship, and it would turn out to be another sodding dream / alternate universe / holodeck program / ridiculous clone-ship / 'spatial quantum anomaly' / hallucination from Neelix's soup and everyone would go back to normal.

But my second question, about the spread-fire phasers...

I dont think he could really dodge three or four crewmembers, firing these at him at once. Sure, he would mow down the first twenty or thirty, but sooner or later, they would realize he can dodge regular phaser shots.

Lets put it this way. The voyager crew would win. Enterprise, harder to say ;)


If Windu can avoid about 75 droids with blasters trying to kill him, he can avoid a spread shot.

Remember that he can move at superhuman speeds, presumably, for short distances.
Thusly, the easiest way to take away the advantage of a spread shot phaser, is to move rapidly amongst the crew, so they are pointing these weapons at one another.
As I said, the Enterprise gang aint stupid, so they would quickly learn that using such shots would likely kill thier own people.

Also, remember Windu is a Jedi.
Jedis can read the future split seconds before it happens, and react accordingly.
This means that if one such beam were actually going to hit him, he would know wich way to move, as to avoid being hit.
Now, take into consideration, the distance in wich Windu can move.
Several dozen yards, in any direction, with pretty much a single leap.

While Im in full nerd-mode, dont forget the Jedi Force Push.
Windu can send all 6 guys flying asscheeks akimbo, with a wave of his hand.
Anyway you slice it, Mace would walk the proverbial mudhole in the Enterprise Boys' collective asses.

Mind you, I love the Original Trek, but this matchup just aint fair.