NationStates Jolt Archive

I'm trying to figure out current gasoline (petrol) prices from around the world. If you can - state your location and the current pricing in your area.

Thanks,
Wolfish

Price Location
$1.40 / litre Toronto

nice one. topic's been coming up in other threads and always made me smile.
never knew you canadians had it as bad as we did. thought you'd be mor ein the US category (gas-price-like, only. no offense intended!) :eek:

1.36€ / litre Germany, Europe

South-east UK: between 95-100 pence per litre.

about 66 US cents per litre (2.98 dollars per gallon). Suburbs outside Washington, D.C.

About 95p a litre. People complain, but they'd complain even more if a combination of lack of petrol tax and increased pressure on the NHS due to people getting unfit, lazy and reliant on cars totally ruined public services.

never knew you canadians had it as bad as we did. thought you'd be mor ein the US category (gas-price-like, only. no offense intended!) :eek:

Yeah - our gov't screws us as badly as yours screws you.

To all: Thanks - I'd love input from southern europe...

oh, my government doesn't screw us. it forces us to behave in a way so that earth will be screwed a couple years later than it would otherwise. i give them thumbs up for it. (btw, I#m one of those folks who supported the motion in our parliament to rise the gas price to 2.50€/litre, too)
:D

The middle of New Jersey, east coast of the USA.

I last filled up my tank on 9/20 and it cost me US $2.90/gal. Hard to convert that, though, isn't it? Gallons to litres is easy enough, but currency rates change by the hour.

That's US $0.76'6/litre, more or less. Which is something like 0.63'4 Euros per litre.

Do your local gas vendors charge down to the tenths of pennies? Or is it just that because prices are abnormally low here, gas station managers try to wring every last bit of potential profit out of us?

South-east UK: between 95-100 pence per litre.
it was down to 92p here in southampton today :)
(why do these threads always seem to appear the day i happen to fill up my car :confused: )


anyways, thats about $6.29 per (US) gallon, if i worked it out right (which i'm pretty sure i didn't)

$2.59 a gallon for regular unleaded today at the Citgo in downtown Blacksburg, Virginia.

$2.76/gallon here in Kansas City, but on the MO side it's significantly cheaper -- there's a $0.24 difference between KS and MO gas taxes.

Anyway, conversions hurt my head, but.....I filled up last night for $2.56, so it's rising fast :eek:

Using 1 gallon = 3,785 litres and http://www.xe.com/ucc/ :

1,48 EURO / litre Britain
0,99 EURO / litre Toronto (assuming canadian dollars)
1.36 EURO / litre Germany
0,56 EURO / litre Blacksburg Virginia
0,60 EURO /litre Kansas City

Americans - stop whining.

Using 1 gallon = 3,785 litres and http://www.xe.com/ucc/ :

1,48 EURO / litre Britain
0,99 EURO / litre Toronto (assuming canadian dollars)
1.36 EURO / litre Germany
0,56 EURO / litre Blacksburg Virginia

Americans - stop whining.
You know why we whine, right? Because on average, compared to the layout of the standard European country, most Americans probably have to drive quite a bit further day-to-day and therefore go through gas like wildfire. My understanding when I was in Europe was that it's mainly centered around its large cities, and even so you all have far better public transportation. Most cities here aren't large enough for a rail system, and in probably a good majority, or at least plurality, of the metropolitain areas that have bus systems, it's unlikely that the buses actually cover anything BUT the uptown/downtown area. Considering a great amount of Americans live in suburbs, how well would that help us?

Not at all.

Using 1 gallon = 3,785 litres and http://www.xe.com/ucc/ :

1,48 EURO / litre Britain
0,99 EURO / litre Toronto (assuming canadian dollars)
1.36 EURO / litre Germany
0,56 EURO / litre Blacksburg Virginia
0,60 EURO /litre Kansas City

Americans - stop whining.


I go through just over $100.00 USD per week. The question really should be: How much is your average monthly gasoline expenditure?

Simonist']on average, compared to the layout of the standard European country, most Americans probably have to drive quite a bit further day-to-day and therefore go through gas like wildfire.
and you know why that is? using less fuel-inefficient cars might help - thats a free hint btw.

and you could always, you know, get yourselves a better public transportation system. but that might mean (shock horror) increasing taxes to pay for it - cos thats how we pay for ours...

Simonist']You know why we whine, right? Because on average, compared to the layout of the standard European country, most Americans probably have to drive quite a bit further day-to-day and therefore go through gas like wildfire.
<snip>


So basicly your commuter system is set up to be wastefull and inefficient, while the traditional American car also is more concerned with raw power than fueleconomy - and therefor whining is ok ?

Using 1 gallon = 3,785 litres and http://www.xe.com/ucc/ :

1,48 EURO / litre Britain
0,99 EURO / litre Toronto (assuming canadian dollars)
1.36 EURO / litre Germany
0,56 EURO / litre Blacksburg Virginia
0,60 EURO /litre Kansas City

Americans - stop whining.

Ok Squeaky a question:

If your cost doubled in one year, you would be quiet?

Ok Squeaky a question:

If your cost doubled in one year, you would be quiet?

*IF* one could show me that the increase is fair, that I have in fact been paying much less than I should have for all those previous years and have de facto been a parasite to the rest of the world ...

Well, probably not. But I should.

@baham..something: i don't need no gas..go bikes! ;)

@simonist: yes, i do realize the american situation..been there, seen that. but you'll still not need as much gas as you do now if:

-you got rid of those ridiculous SUV's and started a low-consumption trend with cars as we did over here.
- you used your damn feet to go walk to the freaking letterbox or church or whatever. it's okay to walk half a mile to do those things, you know :eek:
-you used a bike to do many f the things you do by car now. i used to do a 7-mile-ride (yes, that's ONE way only) to school everyday by bike, never killed me. and i still need to cover a similar distance in order to do my grocery shoppings, so don't use the "but i need to transport my groceries" thing. i mean, okay, i need to go shopping about every other day 'cause i can only transport so much on my bike, but then i do that.

this might cut down at least 25% of your gas consumption. private consumption, that is. business/factores is another topic.

and you know why that is? using less fuel-inefficient cars might help - thats a free hint btw.

and you could always, you know, get yourselves a better public transportation system. but that might mean (shock horror) increasing taxes to pay for it - cos thats how we pay for ours...
Oh my LORD, but guess what. First of all, I have a hybrid car. I still pay out the arse for gas. Secondly, WE are not in charge of what gets built. I've been over this in a previous thread, and I'm sure you had a chance to see it there -- as long as there are redneck no-class losers in the world who prefer an absolutely superfluous new sports stadium that'll simply fall into misuse within ten years to an efficient public transport system, the middle and upper class in the suburbs are going to continually be screwed over.

Also, maybe this hasn't struck you, but in larger metro areas (like mine) -- there's about a billion small cities that MAKE UP the metro. So for instance, my city COULD try to get into the swing of public transport, but considering that practically nobody who LIVES here also WORKS here, that wouldn't do any good unless the entire metro would band together and unify tax rates as well. And as long as there's still a great cultural and economic divide, that'll never happen.

Any more ideas I can pitch at the next meeting?

*IF* one could show me that the increase is fair, that I have in fact been paying much less than I should have for all those previous years and have de facto been a parasite to the rest of the world ...

Well, probably not. But I should.

Sorry basic economics.

However, the fact everybody is falling all over themselves to set up in China, they will quickly replace us as the "parasite to the rest of the world" as their standards of living increases and more gas consumers hit the road.

@simonist: yes, i do realize the american situation..been there, seen that. but you'll still not need as much gas as you do now if:

-you got rid of those ridiculous SUV's and started a low-consumption trend with cars as we did over here.
- you used your damn feet to go walk to the freaking letterbox or church or whatever. it's okay to walk half a mile to do those things, you know :eek:
-you used a bike to do many f the things you do by car now. i used to do a 7-mile-ride (yes, that's ONE way only) to school everyday by bike, never killed me. and i still need to cover a similar distance in order to do my grocery shoppings, so don't use the "but i need to transport my groceries" thing. i mean, okay, i need to go shopping about every other day 'cause i can only transport so much on my bike, but then i do that.

this might cut down at least 25% of your gas consumption. private consumption, that is. business/factores is another topic.
We're not all as wasteful as you may think. Thanks for feeding the stereotype, but there are a lot of us environmentally-minded (and thrifty) individuals who do as little driving as possible. I really only drive short distances if it's bad weather, to be honest. But the fact is that most of the things that I have to get to aren't anywhere near my house, and therefore I have to chose between driving my HYBRID, FUEL-EFFICIENT car and buying gas later on down the road, or just not doing it. And nine times out of ten it's something I can't put off any longer.

Plus, to bring in what Black Forrest said -- we're getting hit with unreasonably high prices compared to what our economy could handle. There's no control as to how much people want to jack up the cost -- mile by mile, in the same city with the same tax rate, it's likely you could see a difference of $0.15 or more, just because SOME people are still kind enough to offer the gas at the price it should cost.....but not many are like that.

Cambridge UK

£4.80 imperial gallon ($8.14)
£3.81 US Gallon ($6.77)


If your cost doubled in one year, you would be quiet?

No, because our petrol is allready about the most expensive in the world, we pay around 70%+ tax on it, on top of that we have to pay road tax aswell.


Your petrol is still cheaper than most places, but you still drive woefully inefficient cars, i've seen cars being sold in america, that do 25-30mpg, and they call that "economical", you pay no road tax, your cars are cheaper, you've still got it pretty good even if your fuel prices have doubled.

Simonist']Oh my LORD, but guess what. First of all, I have a hybrid car. I still pay out the arse for gas. Secondly, WE are not in charge of what gets built. I've been over this in a previous thread, and I'm sure you had a chance to see it there -- as long as there are redneck no-class losers in the world who prefer an absolutely superfluous new sports stadium that'll simply fall into misuse within ten years to an efficient public transport system, the middle and upper class in the suburbs are going to continually be screwed over.

Also, maybe this hasn't struck you, but in larger metro areas (like mine) -- there's about a billion small cities that MAKE UP the metro. So for instance, my city COULD try to get into the swing of public transport, but considering that practically nobody who LIVES here also WORKS here, that wouldn't do any good unless the entire metro would band together and unify tax rates as well. And as long as there's still a great cultural and economic divide, that'll never happen.

Any more ideas I can pitch at the next meeting?
well first of all, good for you, glad to hear it :)
but most people don't drive hybrids do they? in fact most american cars are notoriously fuel inefficeint - this is what i was talking about. if you can prove me wrong on this then so be it, but thats the info we're fed by the media over here. but just thinking about it logically for a second - there's not much chance of a massive 8-seater SUV or pickup truck (both of which seem to be very popular over there in the states) being more fuel efficient than a small "compact" car such as a nissan micra or vauxhall corsa - the type of car which is far more prevalent over here in europe. its simple numbers. especially unlikely considering fuel is so cheap over there as to not be a sufficient incentive for manafacturers to make, and consumers to demand more fuel efficiency from their cars.

and second off, any public transportation system is possible with the right funding - if it is important the people should happily pay tax for it. now understand its not you - or the people - who directly make these decisions, and i am overgeneralising a lot, but nonetheless if you want to have a better PT system, vote for the candidate in local elections who promises to fund the system. if there is no candidate, then that just sucks and it obviously isn't important enough to voters for politicians to leech hold of the idea. perhaps this rise in your fuel costs (up to seemingly rougly half of what we pay here in the UK) will force the issue. i hope so.

though i don't understand how the metro couldn't be united. i mean people in london share the tube with everyone else and for them its not a problem. people share busses with all sorts of other people from other walks of life as it stands at the moment... doing that on a tube is so unthinkable?
besides, the metro unified routes could be worked out carefully, if this is really an issue

@baham..something: i don't need no gas..go bikes! ;)

@simonist: yes, i do realize the american situation..been there, seen that. but you'll still not need as much gas as you do now if:

-you got rid of those ridiculous SUV's and started a low-consumption trend with cars as we did over here.
- you used your damn feet to go walk to the freaking letterbox or church or whatever. it's okay to walk half a mile to do those things, you know :eek:
-you used a bike to do many f the things you do by car now. i used to do a 7-mile-ride (yes, that's ONE way only) to school everyday by bike, never killed me. . Have you ever been to the US? Outside of large cities, nothing is only 1/2 mile away! I used to drive 2 hours each way to get to school! The nearest grocery store is over 6 miles away and I live in a city of about 200k.

snip
As far as the Tube goes, well, my metro couldn't carry a subway system. Not to save its life. Most US cities couldn't. We tried for years to have a Skytrak, but like I said, it was shot down by the inner-city asses who already have a mediocre bus system that nobody uses.

It's been my experience that most of car sales are going up while SUVs and trucks are turning into less of a commodity, except for the people who really make proper use of them, and the extravagent rich bastards of the country. Hybrid sales and smaller, more fuel-efficient sales are up by far, especially General Motors, who also own Vauxhall, so they've got a BIT of experience on an international level. My old car, a '95 Ford Taurus, consistently got over 30 MPG in the city, and near 40 MPG on the highway, which is pretty on-par with the unmodified versions of smaller cars that have been available since approximately 1998.

In all honesty, it's my opinion and experience that the imported cars -- Honda, Toyota, and Kia are all pretty bad with this -- lose fuel efficiency rather swiftly, but people buy these because they're far cheaper from the beginning. Maybe that's another problem we've got to face -- teaching Americans how to properly invest :mad:

Now listen, I'm not saying Americans don't complain, and I'm certainly not saying that some don't complain copious amounts, I'm just saying that we're not ALL like that and I hate getting treated as if I were simply because I have the poor fortune of living here.

Have you ever been to the US? Outside of large cities, nothing is only 1/2 mile away! I used to drive 2 hours each way to get to school! The nearest grocery store is over 6 miles away and I live in a city of about 200k.

sir yes sir. lived in a 5k town in iowa. nuff said? and still did the grocery thing by bike..:)

sir yes sir. lived in a 5k town in iowa. nuff said? and still did the grocery thing by bike..:)
No offense, but 5K is laughable by our terms. I live in a city that, on its own, would be considered quite little, and has over 22K population. Crap, we've got more FAMILIES than even 5K.

Like I said, no offense intended. I just found that incredibly funny.

@simonists: well, that's exactly what i was pointing at! 'cause i'd say that the smaller your town=the more rural the area you live in =the longer the distances you ahve to cover to get to decent shopping places and all..

Simonist']Oh my LORD, but guess what. First of all, I have a hybrid car. I still pay out the arse for gas.
...I'm pretty surprised.

I drive a non-hybrid, eleven-year-old 3300-lb station wagon on its third engine. It has a roof-rack on top for boats or bikes. I use it for short hops to get to and from music lessons or other appointments I can't get to by bike or campus bus. (For what it's worth, I don't live in a dorm, I bike to school.)

My car gets between 22-25 mpg, which means the last time I filled up the tank, I paid US $40.25 (for gas at $2.89'9). Now, I don't consider it paying out of my arse because I saved up enough money from my past jobs to afford it, but hey.

I can't believe you would have to fill up more than once every week and a half to two weeks, driving a hybrid. And if you work part-time, as I have at other times in my school career, you can easily make up the cost of fifteen gallons and more in a week's work.

You can do this even if you're working a crap job like fundraising for your local university or something - and trust me, that work is difficult and it's a pain in the ass. Still, it pays, and if you perform especially well, you might get a raise, a bonus, or both.

Have you ever been to the US? Outside of large cities, nothing is only 1/2 mile away! I used to drive 2 hours each way to get to school! The nearest grocery store is over 6 miles away and I live in a city of about 200k.
I live in a town of 14k and the nearest grocery store is about a mile away. The nearest quick-stop store is about half a mile away. Also, within a mile radius of my house, I have a choice of three gas stations, a zillion nail salons, two tae kwon do studios, two bookstores, three antiques stores, and about ten houses of worship of at least three different religions.

Not all suburbs are the same. In Highland Park, there's a there there, if you know what I mean. The place has its own identity, instead of simply happening to be in some greater metropolitan area.

By the way, on public transport systems: relatively fuel-efficient buses using Diesel engines to turn generators do exist. While the design with the wheel-rim motors is relatively new and therefore expensive, increased demand should encourage the price to drop as facilities for mass-producing them come online. You could have these more fuel-efficient buses running through the greater metropolitan areas as well as the downtown areas, crossing municipal lines, and the contractor being hired not by city governments, but state government.

No single city could afford a bus system that would do anything but shuttle people around the city itself and its immediate surroundings, but if the state itself takes on the project, it can be made much more seamless.

At home, I live a couple of miles outside of town. Everyday during the school year, I would commute 11 miles to school and if I had work, 10 miles there. The nearest grocery store (Food-Lion) is 9 miles away and Wal-Mart is 11. If you wanted to go anywhere, you had to drive for a good 10-15 minutes.

Usually in a week, I would go through $26.00 ($2.39 a gallon) worth of gas that took me 230 miles.

I bought my '87 Chevy Camaro in April, 2004 and got my driver's license in August of the same year. From August, 2004 to August, 2005 I drove 13,000 miles.

At home, I live a couple of miles outside of town. Everyday during the school year, I would commute 11 miles to school and if I had work, 10 miles there. The nearest grocery store (Food-Lion) is 9 miles away and Wal-Mart is 11. If you wanted to go anywhere, you had to drive for a good 10-15 minutes.

Usually in a week, I would go through $26.00 ($2.39 a gallon) worth of gas that took me 230 miles.

I bought my '87 Chevy Camaro in April, 2004 and got my driver's license in August of the same year. From August, 2004 to August, 2005 I drove 13,000 miles.
Paint me glad I live on the East Coast. Here, suburbs are still compact enough to walk across in an hour (or less).

Paint me glad I live on the East Coast. Here, suburbs are still compact enough to walk across in an hour (or less).Well, I also live on what is considered the East Coast. The town I was talking about is South Boston, Virginia. Its rather small at 8,491 people and the county, where my home is, is Halifax County at 37,355.

...I'm pretty surprised.

I drive a non-hybrid, eleven-year-old 3300-lb station wagon on its third engine. It has a roof-rack on top for boats or bikes. I use it for short hops to get to and from music lessons or other appointments I can't get to by bike or campus bus. (For what it's worth, I don't live in a dorm, I bike to school.)

My car gets between 22-25 mpg, which means the last time I filled up the tank, I paid US $40.25 (for gas at $2.89'9). Now, I don't consider it paying out of my arse because I saved up enough money from my past jobs to afford it, but hey.

I can't believe you would have to fill up more than once every week and a half to two weeks, driving a hybrid. And if you work part-time, as I have at other times in my school career, you can easily make up the cost of fifteen gallons and more in a week's work.

You can do this even if you're working a crap job like fundraising for your local university or something - and trust me, that work is difficult and it's a pain in the ass. Still, it pays, and if you perform especially well, you might get a raise, a bonus, or both.
Well the problem is, I work full-time on one end of town, I'm in school full-time in another end of town, I have responsibilities to my family that quite often require a car over a bike, and especially taxing right now is that my bike was stolen last time I did choose to ride it somewhere. Gas, on average, is lower here than the rest of the major metropolitan areas of the country (US that is), but when one considers that most of my paychecks are already being sorted into medical bills and living expenses, I don't think it's really your place to judge whether or not I can easily make up that cost (not to sound hostile, but you just don't know my situation). Plus, most of our oil goes through the refineries that are currently shut down in TX, so our price raises are perhaps a bit less representative on a whole of the US (I saw it go up another $0.30, by the way). By the time the winter hits and the gas prices likely stay high for a good time, I'm hoping that the medical bills will decrease, or the insurance company (usually doing a bomb-ass job, but have gotten lazy lately) will take over a chunk of payments for my treatment, and then it won't be such a problem. Of course, if we have an average winter, it won't really make much of a difference because I'll have to drive the Jeep just to get good enough traction on the back roads, but.....we make do with what we can.

I still pay out the arse for gas.

You'd probably find using a wallet more comfortable.

well,
when last we had gas,
it was about $2.79 - $3.05 here.
but then we ran out.
and people got angry. :sniper:

nacogdoches, texas
[NE texas, 150 mi. directly north of sabine pass, yay!]

well,
when last we had gas,
it was about $2.79 - $3.05 here.
but then we ran out.
and people got angry. :sniper:

nacogdoches, texas
[NE texas, 150 mi. directly north of sabine pass, yay!]

Simonist']Plus, most of our oil goes through the refineries that are currently shut down in TX, so our price raises are perhaps a bit less representative on a whole of the US (I saw it go up another $0.30, by the way). By the time the winter hits and the gas prices likely stay high for a good time

sorry, but do you really believe that the rest of the world's prices are unaffected by closure of texan oil refineries. You just bulk-buy Europe's pre-refined petroleum pushing our prices up.

If USA looked at the apparent facts and taxed the petroleum so that prices were in line with Europe, then you might suffer less natural disaters in the future. Having the ability to kill the planet via anthropological climate change does not give you the right to do so. You own a miniscule fraction of Earth, why should the rest have to suffer your arrogant policies? :confused:

If USA looked at the apparent facts and taxed the petroleum so that prices were in line with Europe, then you might suffer less natural disaters in the future. Having the ability to kill the planet via anthropological climate change does not give you the right to do so.

A notion for which there is plenty of 'consensus', but no proof (computer modelling is not proof, especially since the models, and the data behind them are never released for public scrutiny, it suffers from the most basic computer problem: Pur Crap In, Get Crap Out)

Centuries ago, religious figures demanded that people sacrifice livestock and food to appease vengeful gods. Today, activists demand people sacrifice their national prosperity in order to appease a vengeful Mother Nature.

Mankind has learned a lot over the centuries, to no practical benefit.

Centuries ago, religious figures demanded that people sacrifice livestock and food to appease vengeful gods. Today, activists demand people sacrifice their national prosperity in order to appease a vengeful Mother Nature.Because activists have always been proven wrong, such as with pesticides. ;)

A notion for which there is plenty of 'consensus', but no proof (computer modelling is not proof, especially since the models, and the data behind them are never released for public scrutiny, it suffers from the most basic computer problem: Pur Crap In, Get Crap Out)

So you require proof that we are killing the Earth before you cease. I would suggest that taking the agnostic approach which might work for religious belief is horrendously selfish. The only time there will be proof is once the ecosphere has moved irreversably towards the primordial state i.e. before fossil fuels and carbon sinks existed. Not a very exciting prospect

A country's prosperity at one point in time should be balanced against the needs of your descendants.

As for computer models - yes, you can derive crap out, if the model is populated poorly. You make the error, however, in believing that the model has crap put in. Although there is variation in the output as to how the climate change will affect any particular region, it is foolish in the extreme to ignore the global average of rising temperatures.

Arab League Average
Petrol-0.03$
Gas-0.02$

Some Arab Countries:

Egypt-Arab League
Petrol-0.05 $
Gas-0.02$

Saudi Arabia-Arab League
Petrol-0.003$
Gas-0.04$

Lebanon-Arab League
Petrol-0.50$
Gas-0.10$

Morocco-Arab League
Petrol-1$
Gas-0.01$

Luxembourg is about 1,25 EUR now :-(
When I came to live here, about two years ago, I payed 80ct for a litre...times DO change.

Netherlands are close to 1,50 EUR, Germany is about 1,40 EUR

Belgium is 1,35

95-105p in East Anglia, the more expensive places are the local petrol stations.

eastern europe is fairly cheap i think, if your ever there fill up before you leave lol

95-105p in East Anglia, the more expensive places are the local petrol stations.


It's bad enough that we have to live in East Anglia, but we get stiffed on our petrol prices too. I wish that the big companies had a more uniform price over the country :( (I am in favour of reasonably high prices for fuel)

If only the public transport system in Norfolk and Cambs was better, I would use it more often)

Bellbowrie Independent Station, Brisbane, Australia:

Used to be somewhere around A$0.80 6 months or so back, then it went to one dollar, now it's moving between A$1.20 and A$1.40.

Here in finland petrol is about 1.38 EURO/litre. I have to drive about 200 kilometres a week to get to work and market and to free time activities. My car consumes about 7 litre/100 km being a 2litre Renault Scenic.
I live in a small city/town of 3000 residents. Though because of the massive taxes we pay, the school is only 2km away(it has only 30 students), and also the nearest hospital is only 7km away.

u guys have it real bad out there

So you require proof that we are killing the Earth before you cease. I would suggest that taking the agnostic approach which might work for religious belief is horrendously selfish. The only time there will be proof is once the ecosphere has moved irreversably towards the primordial state i.e. before fossil fuels and carbon sinks existed. Not a very exciting prospect

A country's prosperity at one point in time should be balanced against the needs of your descendants.

As for computer models - yes, you can derive crap out, if the model is populated poorly. You make the error, however, in believing that the model has crap put in. Although there is variation in the output as to how the climate change will affect any particular region, it is foolish in the extreme to ignore the global average of rising temperatures.

You are still spouting pseudo-religious rubbish.

Why should the people who advocate sending western economies into recession (or further into recession) not have to prove their 'arguments'. Faith is not sufficient.

You may as well have said that the world will turn into lava unless we all sacrifice our first-born daughters.

Your 'point' about computer modelling is firstly, irrelevant since the models are never given independent scrutiny, and secondly, unsupported by evidence. The organisations who produce these models get considerable funding and publicity from spreading panic. They've no incentive to be honest, and they've shown no signs of being honest.

Sweden, about 12,50 SEK /swedish crowns a liter....

I filled up yesterday, it cost me nearly £50. I have to do so much driving that I have to fill up nearly once every two days. That's nearly £700 a month.

Fortunately I have a company car :p, otherwise that'd be about a third of my wage just spent on diesel...

Most of the world's governments embrace a precautionary principle to environmental protection - If there is no such thing as human-induced global warming, then that would make me incredibly happy, but the weight of indicative evidence disputes this blinkered belief that we can do what the hell we like because it'll all turn out right in the end.

We need to curb our fossil fuel burning because a small minority (shareholders in automotive and petroleum industries and people who drive 1 mile to work or school) cannot be allowed to hold every future generation to ransom

South Australia... i think it's about $1.35ish at the moment... in Aust. dollars

Most of the world's governments embrace a precautionary principle to environmental protection - If there is no such thing as human-induced global warming, then that would make me incredibly happy, but the weight of indicative evidence disputes this blinkered belief that we can do what the hell we like because it'll all turn out right in the end.

We need to curb our fossil fuel burning because a small minority (shareholders in automotive and petroleum industries and people who drive 1 mile to work or school) cannot be allowed to hold every future generation to ransom
exactly! however i don't think those who have that 'blinkered view' actually think it'll turn out ok... generally i don't think they think about the future or sustainability at all - its all about short term profit and benefit for them, not caring for the problems they might be making for the future.

http://money.cnn.com/pf/features/lists/global_gasprices/

You know why we whine, right? Because on average, compared to the layout of the standard European country, most Americans probably have to drive quite a bit further day-to-day and therefore go through gas like wildfire. My understanding when I was in Europe was that it's mainly centered around its large cities, and even so you all have far better public transportation. Most cities here aren't large enough for a rail system, and in probably a good majority, or at least plurality, of the metropolitain areas that have bus systems, it's unlikely that the buses actually cover anything BUT the uptown/downtown area. Considering a great amount of Americans live in suburbs, how well would that help us?

You cannot be serious with that arguement, if you ran more economically friendly cars i would shut up and say fine, the reason you whine is cause your cars burn all your 'gas' before you can get anywhere, think of the environment!

Most of the world's governments embrace a precautionary principle to environmental protection - If there is no such thing as human-induced global warming, then that would make me incredibly happy, but the weight of indicative evidence disputes this blinkered belief that we can do what the hell we like because it'll all turn out right in the end.

We need to curb our fossil fuel burning because a small minority (shareholders in automotive and petroleum industries and people who drive 1 mile to work or school) cannot be allowed to hold every future generation to ransom

You're missing, or looking away, from the govenance implications of the precautionary principle.

What it does is give governments the total right to restrict any activity on the grounds that the people doing the activity, or developing the means with which to do it have not proven that it is totally harmless.

Frankly, the devotion to the entirely unproven theory that the all the world's current and future climate problems are caused by human interference are right up there with ancient religious rubbish about plagues of locusts.

If someone proves the necessity of changing policy, and actions, fine. But no one has proven it, and the people pushing these theories act in a damned suspicious way. They vilify anyone who disagrees with them, at a "climate change" conference, the chairman left before a sceptic could speak, and the next day, gave a filibuster of an opening address so the sceptic wouldn't have time. They speak of 'scientific consensus', hoping that we don't realise that this is a contradiction in terms. Science simply isn't consensus based, one man, who's theory best fits reality, and who's experiments prove the theory will beat a wrong scientific consensus. The phrase "scientific consensus" is an appeal to authority fallacy designed solely to stifle criticism of the global warming/cooling theologists. The media play along with this because hysterical pronouncements sell papers and advertising space (and in the case of government-owned broadcasters, they fit in with the prelavent left-wing ideology in such organisations).

exactly! however i don't think those who have that 'blinkered view' actually think it'll turn out ok... generally i don't think they think about the future or sustainability at all - its all about short term profit and benefit for them, not caring for the problems they might be making for the future.

We need to curb our fossil fuel burning because a small minority (shareholders in automotive and petroleum industries and people who drive 1 mile to work or school) cannot be allowed to hold every future generation to ransom

False dilemma (with a tadge of ad hominem), you've done nothing to show that the only choices we have are to sign on to the environmentalist's agenda (which is not backed by the science, but which will ruin western economies), or to do nothing.

If things need to be done, let the advocates of such actions prove the necessity of them, let them open up all their work to independent scrutiny, and let them stop vilifying anyone who commits herest against Mother Nature.


Without the scientific proofs, the environmentalists should be regarded as what they are, religious zealots, a modern variation of the type who advocated virgin sacrifices to appease vengeful Gods.

Austria: 1.15€/litre (at a rate of 1:1.2 EUR:USD that's about 5.22$/gallon)

$1.51/litre here in Auckland, New Zealand. Was 96 cents 3 years ago :(

5,000 won per litre here in Incheon. That's about 4.80 US dollars

Holy ****, and i thought our petrol was expensive :p

Somewhere around $1.4/$1.6 in Sweden.

$3/gallon in San Francisco, or $.80/liter.

And as to the mass transit issue... I get 26-30 mil/gal driving my little sedan. SF has a pretty good mass transit system, but I still drive. I live on an island and work on the other side of the city. :p

I wonder about people I see buying gas... I saw 2 guys with a brand new truck sitting in front of me at the gas station. Why on earth would you buy a truck when you look at the current gas prices? :rolleyes:

$3/gallon in San Francisco, or $.80/liter.

$Free used vegetable oil smells a bit but works fine

It's bad enough that we have to live in East Anglia, but we get stiffed on our petrol prices too. I wish that the big companies had a more uniform price over the country :( (I am in favour of reasonably high prices for fuel)

If only the public transport system in Norfolk and Cambs was better, I would use it more often)


i sorta agree with you, i dont want higher prices but if the public transport here was any good i would use it, if i want to travel to Bury St Edmunds (15 miles from me) by car it takes 30 mins, bus takes an hour and sumit costing £5 return i think and train is £11! and takes too long

sorry, but do you really believe that the rest of the world's prices are unaffected by closure of texan oil refineries. You just bulk-buy Europe's pre-refined petroleum pushing our prices up.

If USA looked at the apparent facts and taxed the petroleum so that prices were in line with Europe, then you might suffer less natural disaters in the future. Having the ability to kill the planet via anthropological climate change does not give you the right to do so. You own a miniscule fraction of Earth, why should the rest have to suffer your arrogant policies? :confused:
Oh, I'm sorry did I say ANYWHERE in there that you all should suffer for "OUR" arrogant policies? Wait, wait, did I actually CONTRIBUTE to making those policies? Not to my knowledge. Come to think of it, nor did I insinuate that nobody else is hit by the closing of the Texan oil refineries.

So quit putting words in my mouth. That's a real jack-assed thing to do.

You cannot be serious with that arguement, if you ran more economically friendly cars i would shut up and say fine, the reason you whine is cause your cars burn all your 'gas' before you can get anywhere, think of the environment!
Wanna know something funny? WE CAN'T CONTROL WHAT CARS ARE SOLD HERE. In case you missed every other point I made, there's been a huge shift recently towards more fuel-efficient cars, and I myself own a hybrid, but I honestly doubt you'd have read that far into it before flying into this. And what the hell exactly do you mean our cars burn all our GAS before we can get anywhere? That just makes no sense whatsoever. It's not like we're leaving them idling in the carport for waste's sake.

Maybe, just for once in your biased little America-hating lives, you guys can step outside of your shit-storm and realize that WE'RE not happy with our economy either. We're not really all that satisfied that most of the cars that are available to us are less efficient than they could be. But guess the fuck what -- not only do too few people realize that, but it's not like EVERYBODY can afford the better ones. I got a hybrid because I happen to have rich parents who are both hippies and realize that it'll be better for all of us down the road, so we came up with a loan agreement. Shit, even the cars you guys send over from foreign nations are crapped all over before arrival. You think that's helping?

I mean, I fucking hate America. In any other circumstances, I'd take the time to point out why. But when the venomous malcontents jump all over Americans as if we're an autonomous collective of world-ignorant hillbillies, guess what, I tend to get defensive, because I'M NOT LIKE THAT.

Furthermore, Americans would hate you guys less if you didn't act like that. 'Cause I know a lot of them do.