NationStates Jolt Archive

Why is it that the hedonist elitists in America have no unified message anymore? Why is it that they have been essentially without a song and dance and have been practically leaderless for the last fifteen years? Outside of Clinton, of course, who can be said to have succeeded and failed entirely on own charismatic personality and a leadership style despite his support from the left, because he promoted policies that seemed more like a Republican’s policies than a Democrat’s policies anyway, they (the extreme far left) have been bumbling around and knocking themselves out against each other instead of the advancing their agenda?

Imagine if you will the affect of opening a beehive and stealing away the queen bee, the hive at first seems to continue without a noticeable difference then how it acted before, but then shortly thereafter, the diverse bee class groups begin to loose unifying ‘hive’ focus and the hive lacks the leadership to reunify it’s collective objective, and the hive dies. The hedonist/humanist collective seem to be behaving as a hive in the throes of dying…

It is any coincidence that this seems to have started about the same time the Soviet Union dissolved? :confused:

Not related you say? LMAO… *wipes tear from eye* :p

Of course they are related.

However, they are not dead yet, they still have the ACLU (originally called the ACL“B” – Bureau) to try and dig themselves a new hole from which to operate from, but we’ll have to wait and see if they can unify their own forces and comrades around their collective causes under a new command center or not .

Can anyone deny that the ACLB was formed with the singular purpose of protecting Soviet ideology? Or that the Bureau was a soviet brainchild of Bolshevik propaganda?

The ACLB itself was founded for the very purpose of protecting soviet aliens disguised as immigrants from deportation when they were charged with crimes in the US. These people that were accused of illegal soviet sponsored activities etc., would be brought to court with the intention of deporting them back to the Soviet Union (people whom have now been shown to actually have been Soviet spies on the soviet payroll as revealed by once secret Soviet achieves), and the ACLB would try and come to their rescue to win their trials to stay in the US.

The secondary role of the Bureau was to protect the US citizens who harbored them and capitulated with their causes. The objective was to keep the spies in America and to defend their collaborators from criminal charges brought by the U.S. Government. It was over five years later before the Bureau first decided to take on any other type of cases at all. And their first case outside of protecting Soviet spies was an orchestrated one at that. Their defendant this time was paid to commit a crime, after an advertisement was placed in newspapers to find a willing defendant and they were interviewed… Of course this was the original Darwinism case in American schools, the Bureau realized that this would be the first case of many to come, about trying to diminish American culture. The fact that they started with a cause we can agree with does not diminish the fact that they started with the intention of taking many small steps to accomplish their goals

Many Bolshevik defenders of the ACLU today like to try and pretend that the communist founder of the Bureau removed the communist members from the leadership role of the ACLU in 1940 (they had changed their name from ACLB to ACLU by then to try a more American sensibility acceptable “Union” name instead of Bureau), but the truth is that the strongly influencing Bolshevik Revolution twenty years before had (when it first come to the States) formed and assembled the American socialists and radicals who met in Chicago in 1919 to organize an American Communist party, found that they were so divided they created two parties instead of one.

One group consisted mostly of the Russian and East European immigrants, who emphasized adherence to Marxist orthodoxy and proletarian revolution (the one that founded the ACLB). The other group, dominated by native-born American radicals who sought influence the masses with political ideology. But these conflicting objectives combined with the discrepancy between Communist doctrine and American reality, kept the Communist movement in the United States in two distinct camps. The ACLU only switched from one Soviet puppet party to the other native communist party to try and distance themselves from the Soviets (membership in the American party rose to about 75,000 by 1938 following the Great Depression), because they were beginning to lose members after the signing of the Nazi-Soviet Nonaggression Pact of 1939 was so unpopular with Americans in general. In other words, the ACLU only kicked out the most known soviet leadership members because it was trying to stop the mass exodus of American from their membership.

The ACLU has gone so far now as to say that they have no political endorsements, but could that be because they would lose sympathy in the American public if they opening endorsed communist politicians? :rolleyes:

So there we have it, the real reason the hedonists in America seem to have no direction anymore is simply because the Soviet Union collapsed and they are now headless. Without their queen bee. :D But the ACLB lives like the Nazi'z who escaped to Brazil, they survive, disguised as humanists in America, right under our collective noses! :eek:

Sorry, but how is socialism equivalent to hedonism?

The ACLU was founded by communists but that is no basis to discredit them. In America people are meant to have the right to freedom of speech and of political thought. This means that they have a right to be communists. They don't have a right to be Soviet Spies, but the government couldn't legitimately deport people for being communist without further investigation.

Sorry, but how is socialism equivalent to hedonism?

1919 – Communist Rules for Revolution

1. Corrupt the young: get them away from religion. Get them interested in sex. Make them superficial; destroy their ruggedness.

2. Get control of all means of publicity. Get peoples’ minds off their government by focusing their attention on athletics, sexy books, plays and other trivialities.

3. Divide people into hostile groups by constantly harping on controversial matters of no importance.

4. Destroy the peoples’ faith in their natural leaders by holding the latter up to contempt, ridicule and (speak against, condemnatory utterances)

5. Always preach ;true democracy; but seize power as fast and as ruthlessly as possible.

6. By encouraging government extravagance, destroy its credit; produce fear of inflation, rising prices and general discontent.

7. Foment strikes in vital industries; encourage civil disorders and foster a lenient and soft attitude on the part of government toward these disorders.

8. By special argument cause a breakdown of the old moral virtues; honesty, sobriety, continence, faith in the pledged word, ruggedness.

9. Cause the registration of all firearms on some pretext with a view of confiscation of them and leaving the population helpless.

1919 – Communist Rules for Revolution

1. Corrupt the young: get them away from religion. Get them interested in sex. Make them superficial; destroy their ruggedness.

2. Get control of all means of publicity. Get peoples’ minds off their government by focusing their attention on athletics, sexy books, plays and other trivialities.

3. Divide people into hostile groups by constantly harping on controversial matters of no importance.

4. Destroy the peoples’ faith in their natural leaders by holding the latter up to contempt, ridicule and (speak against, condemnatory utterances)

5. Always preach ;true democracy; but seize power as fast and as ruthlessly as possible.

6. By encouraging government extravagance, destroy its credit; produce fear of inflation, rising prices and general discontent.

7. Foment strikes in vital industries; encourage civil disorders and foster a lenient and soft attitude on the part of government toward these disorders.
8. By special argument cause a breakdown of the old moral virtues; honesty, sobriety, continence, faith in the pledged word, ruggedness.

9. Cause the registration of all firearms on some pretext with a view of confiscation of them and leaving the population helpless.
You have a source for this?

1919 – Communist Rules for Revolution

1. Corrupt the young: get them away from religion. Get them interested in sex. Make them superficial; destroy their ruggedness.

2. Get control of all means of publicity. Get peoples’ minds off their government by focusing their attention on athletics, sexy books, plays and other trivialities.

3. Divide people into hostile groups by constantly harping on controversial matters of no importance.

4. Destroy the peoples’ faith in their natural leaders by holding the latter up to contempt, ridicule and (speak against, condemnatory utterances)

5. Always preach ;true democracy; but seize power as fast and as ruthlessly as possible.

6. By encouraging government extravagance, destroy its credit; produce fear of inflation, rising prices and general discontent.

7. Foment strikes in vital industries; encourage civil disorders and foster a lenient and soft attitude on the part of government toward these disorders.
8. By special argument cause a breakdown of the old moral virtues; honesty, sobriety, continence, faith in the pledged word, ruggedness.

9. Cause the registration of all firearms on some pretext with a view of confiscation of them and leaving the population helpless.

McCarthy's Rules for Paranoia

1. Blame Communists for everything I don't like
2. If anyone criticizes Rule #1, they are Communists
3. See Rule #1

So there we have it, the real reason the hedonists in America seem to have no direction anymore is simply because the Soviet Union collapsed and they are now headless. Without their queen bee. :D But the ACLB lives like the Nazi'z who escaped to Brazil, they survive, disguised as humanists in America, right under our collective noses! :eek:
The policies of the Soviet Union were quite authoritarian, in contrast to the liberal policies of today's left in the West. To imply that most liberals dream of communist revolution is really laughable and, in the context of the modern world, baseless.

1919 – Communist Rules for Revolution

1. Corrupt the young: get them away from religion. Get them interested in sex. Make them superficial; destroy their ruggedness.

2. Get control of all means of publicity. Get peoples’ minds off their government by focusing their attention on athletics, sexy books, plays and other trivialities.

3. Divide people into hostile groups by constantly harping on controversial matters of no importance.

4. Destroy the peoples’ faith in their natural leaders by holding the latter up to contempt, ridicule and (speak against, condemnatory utterances)

5. Always preach ;true democracy; but seize power as fast and as ruthlessly as possible.

6. By encouraging government extravagance, destroy its credit; produce fear of inflation, rising prices and general discontent.

7. Foment strikes in vital industries; encourage civil disorders and foster a lenient and soft attitude on the part of government toward these disorders.

8. By special argument cause a breakdown of the old moral virtues; honesty, sobriety, continence, faith in the pledged word, ruggedness.

9. Cause the registration of all firearms on some pretext with a view of confiscation of them and leaving the population helpless.
Alright, it's obvious that you just made this up yourself, but I'll refute it for fun.

1. The Bolsheviks wanted to get their recruits away from religion, but they wanted them to be rugged to fight in the Civil war against the White Army.

2. "Sex sells", basically. Libertarian Capitalism is more to blame for this. You see, the aim of companies in a capitalist economy is to make money. One of the ways that they advertise is to use sex to attract customers.

3. Gay marriage, anyone?

4. I think that politicians do a fine job of incriminating themselves with their scandals. And I thought only a guy like Nixon would blame his Watergate scandal on communists...

5. This happened in the Soviet Union.

6. Everyone can be negativist. You for example.

7. So you would send in the troops to scatter striking workers? How very Soviet of you.

8. And so the Soviets replaced the old authoritarianism with a new authoritarianism.

9. I think that the Bolsheviks found firearms quite useful in their Revolution. Then they disarmed the population after gaining power. Do you really think that the liberal left is trying to render you helpless so they can kill you in their revolution?

2. Get control of all means of publicity. Get peoples’ minds off their government by focusing their attention on athletics, sexy books, plays and other trivialities.

That's funny. I thought that was you capitalist types.

Think about what you just said dude; why would a group of people who want to politicize the masses for revolutionary change want to get them distracted from what's going on in the world?

thanks for giving me a real good laugh, greeny. you oughta submit this to somekind of parody thread on here. hope you do not ask me to take you all too serious.

*walks quietly up to the thread.*

*posts sign*

DO NOT FEED THE TROLL

*walks quietly up to the thread.*

*posts sign*

DO NOT FEED THE TROLL
Greenlander is not really a troll. He's too literate.

9. Cause the registration of all firearms on some pretext with a view of confiscation of them and leaving the population helpless.

OK, I confess. This guy's totally read the latest edition of the Evil Commie Pocket Guide to World Domination. We've been planning to confiscate people's guns the entire time because we really want the people to have to fight for the revolution with bare fists and pointy sticks.

Hey don't ask me comrade, I'm just rank-n-file in the Global Bolshevik Conspiracy. Central Committee made that call.

McCarthy's Rules for Paranoia

1. Blame Communists for everything I don't like
2. If anyone criticizes Rule #1, they are Communists
3. See Rule #1


McCarthy was a prick, and a SOB, and additionally, he was ten to fifteen years late. However, he was right about the threat.

The fact is that the American government (at the highest levels) was already aware of the it and had found a way to break the code of the Soviet communication with their cells before McCarthy, and they didn't want it known that they knew... This information was released in 1995 of via the “Venona” documents (transcripts of encrypted communications between the Soviets and their intelligence services in the US in the 1940’s that the U.S. government intercepted and deciphered) which confirms that what much of what McCarthy said about the communists of the 1950’s was in fact true, but ten years late...

McCarthy was a prick, and a SOB, and additionally, he was ten to fifteen years late. However, he was right about the threat.

The fact is that the American government (at the highest levels) was already aware of the it and had found a way to break the code of the Soviet communication with their cells before McCarthy, and they didn't want it known that they knew... This information was released in 1995 of via the “Venona” documents (transcripts of encrypted communications between the Soviets and their intelligence services in the US in the 1940’s that the U.S. government intercepted and deciphered) which confirms that what much of what McCarthy said about the communists of the 1950’s was in fact true, but ten years late...If you accuse everyone you're likely to get someone guilty too...

*snip*
Alright, it's obvious that you just made this up yourself, but I'll refute it for fun.


I didn't make anything up...

In 1995 Emory University professor Harvey Klehr, John Earl Haynes of the Library of Congress and Russian archivist Fridrikh Igorevich Firsov published The Secret World of American Communism, a collection of 92 documents that Klehr; a political scientist, accidentally stumbled across on a visit to Russia.

Even with so much information now readily available, investigators such as Klehr tell Insight that what has come to light in recent years is "only the tip of the iceberg," and much, much more is to come.

Whittaker Chambers, the former Communist Party member, wrote in his book Witness of the need to learn the truth about Communist activity… He warned against another aspect of American communism -- the protection it received from the "best" of society: academics, intellectuals, journalists and sundry others. "The forces of enlightenment" continually are at work "pooh-poohing the communist danger and calling every allusion to it a witch-hunt," wrote Chambers, who was himself the brunt of much left-wing mudslinging.

The standard myth about the American Communist Party, perpetrated by revisionist historians and much of the media, is that its members over-whelmingly were idealistic men and women who sought justice and an end to human suffering. The truth is otherwise. The Communist Party, USA, or CPUSA, had a sizable cadre of members whose chief loyalty was to the Soviet Union and its leadership and who acted according to those loyalties. As the Hoover Institution's Beichman notes: "We ultra-right, fascist and everything-else-they-called-us scoundrels were more right than anybody else."
http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1571/is_n37_v13/ai_19836506

I didn't make anything up...

In 1995 Emory University professor Harvey Klehr, John Earl Haynes of the Library of Congress and Russian archivist Fridrikh Igorevich Firsov published The Secret World of American Communism, a collection of 92 documents that Klehr; a political scientist, accidentally stumbled across on a visit to Russia.

Even with so much information now readily available, investigators such as Klehr tell Insight that what has come to light in recent years is "only the tip of the iceberg," and much, much more is to come.

Whittaker Chambers, the former Communist Party member, wrote in his book Witness of the need to learn the truth about Communist activity… He warned against another aspect of American communism -- the protection it received from the "best" of society: academics, intellectuals, journalists and sundry others. "The forces of enlightenment" continually are at work "pooh-poohing the communist danger and calling every allusion to it a witch-hunt," wrote Chambers, who was himself the brunt of much left-wing mudslinging.

The standard myth about the American Communist Party, perpetrated by revisionist historians and much of the media, is that its members over-whelmingly were idealistic men and women who sought justice and an end to human suffering. The truth is otherwise. The Communist Party, USA, or CPUSA, had a sizable cadre of members whose chief loyalty was to the Soviet Union and its leadership and who acted according to those loyalties. As the Hoover Institution's Beichman notes: "We ultra-right, fascist and everything-else-they-called-us scoundrels were more right than anybody else."
http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1571/is_n37_v13/ai_19836506


Please try and find a slighly less biased source in the future.

Please try and find a slighly less biased source in the future.

The http://www.findarticles.com/ is too biased a source?

Mmmm'kay.. :rolleyes:

Or did you mean the original founder of the article: http://www.insightmag.com/ ?

The http://www.findarticles.com/ is too biased a source?

Mmmm'kay.. :rolleyes:

Or did you mean the original founder of the article: http://www.insightmag.com/ ?
The original article. "Conservative current events magazine published by Washington Times." Gee wiz, that sounds like it takes a fair and balanced look at things to me.

The original article. "Conservative current events magazine published by Washington Times." Gee wiz, that sounds like it takes a fair and balanced look at things to me.

That's an add...

That's an add...


Insight on the News
Conservative current events magazine published by Washington Times.
www.insightmag.com/ - 41k - Sep 21, 2005 - Cached - Similar pages


Most certainly is not a ad.

</script>
****** name="description" content="News for the Newsmakers.">
****** name="keywords" content="washington news, conservative politics, conservative news, libertarian politics, republican, news, newsmakers, honest">
****** http-equiv=content-type content=text/html;charset=iso-8859-1>

Right you are... Not an add I guess. It looked like a add to me so I didn't look too much at it.

However, I then clicked on the 'who we are stuff' http://www.insightmag.com/main.cfm?include=detail&storyid=87139 and that doesn't look so bad.

Why is it that the hedonist elitists in America have no unified message anymore? Why is it that they have been essentially without a song and dance and have been practically leaderless for the last fifteen years? Outside of Clinton, of course
You think Clinton was leader of the Communist Party USA? :rolleyes:

Where is this thread going? Who cares if the communist party USA was full of Soviet spies - they got an annual subsidy from the USSR government. And where, Greenlander, is your refutation of my points?

The ACLU of today shows no sign of connections to the CPUSA.

I didn't make anything up...

So where is your source for that list? The language sounds awfully modern for something supposedly written in 1919. It is also written from a conservative viewpoint, not a communist one. All the signs point to you writing it.

Where is this thread going? Who cares if the communist party USA was full of Soviet spies (as yet unproven). And where, Greenlander, is your refutation of my points?

The ACLU of today shows no sign of connections to the CPUSA.

And hold on, why would Soviet spies join the COMMUNIST party?

"Boris, I have an excellent idea. The yankee dogs will never suspect us. It is the perfect cover for our conspiracy to take over the moon."
"Yes Petrov? What is it?"
"We shall join the communist party!"
"Why, Petrov, that is a brilliant idea! The fools will never think of looking there!"

*snip*

Oh, Jumping Jesus on a pogo-stick, McCarthy is back from the grave!!!

You've previously tried unsuccessfully to smear the ACLU. Let us not assassinate this group further, Greenlander.

"You have done enough. Have you no sense of decency sir, at long last? Have you left no sense of decency?"

McCarthy's Rules for Paranoia

1. Blame Communists for everything I don't like
2. If anyone criticizes Rule #1, they are Communists
3. See Rule #1

Exactically!

And hold on, why would Soviet spies join the COMMUNIST party?

"Boris, I have an excellent idea. The yankee dogs will never suspect us. It is the perfect cover for our conspiracy to take over the moon."
"Yes Petrov? What is it?"
"We shall join the communist party!"
"Why, Petrov, that is a brilliant idea! The fools will never think of looking there!"
I imagine it may more have been a case of true communists being corrupted into working for the Soviets.

lol this thread is funny. you're funny, Greenlander... in a trolly kind of way.

And hold on, why would Soviet spies join the COMMUNIST party?

"Boris, I have an excellent idea. The yankee dogs will never suspect us. It is the perfect cover for our conspiracy to take over the moon."
"Yes Petrov? What is it?"
"We shall join the communist party!"
"Why, Petrov, that is a brilliant idea! The fools will never think of looking there!"
:D

I like when reason and humor mix to make me laugh.

I imagine it may more have been a case of true communists being corrupted into working for the Soviets.

Even so...communists didn't typically hold sensitive positions. You wouldn't find someone in the FBI or CIA being a member of the CPUSA (and if you did, said person would lose their job, or at least security clearance). Sure, maybe a few factory workers and unionites had correspondence with people in the USSR, but aside from small scale labour insurrection, I doubt there was really much going on.

:D

I like when reason and humor mix to make me laugh.

I do my best. :)

Greenlander is right, though. We really are trying to take over the world. We're trying to take your guns so that we can give you concussions by dropping gay wedding rings on you from tall buildings with impunity. If you listen carefully, sometimes you can hear the Internationale playing in the distance and that's one of us tending to our secret marihuana gardens while we plan our next abortions.

First of all, it’s not like they were keeping it a secret… We are talking about pre-WWII, the red scare BEFORE McCarthyism..

However, as per the ACLU linkage with modern day.

Notice the date here. How many of these have been achieved already? How many would never have been achieved without the assistance of the Bureau progeny, the ACLU?

"The Naked Communist," by Cleon Skousen: CURRENT COMMUNIST GOALS (Circa 1963)

1. U.S. acceptance of coexistence as the only alternative to atomic war.
2. U.S. willingness to capitulate in preference to engaging in atomic war.
3. Develop the illusion that total disarmament [by] the United States would be a demonstration of moral strength.
4. Permit free trade between all nations regardless of Communist affiliation and regardless of whether or not items could be used for war.
5. Extension of long-term loans to Russia and Soviet satellites.
6. Provide American aid to all nations regardless of Communist domination.
7. Grant recognition of Red China. Admission of Red China to the U.N.
8. Set up East and West Germany as separate states in spite of Khrushchev's promise in 1955 to settle the German question by free elections under supervision of the U.N.
9. Prolong the conferences to ban atomic tests because the United States has agreed to suspend tests as long as negotiations are in progress.
10. Allow all Soviet satellites individual representation in the U.N.
11. Promote the U.N. as the only hope for mankind. If its charter is rewritten, demand that it be set up as a one-world government with its own independent armed forces. (Some Communist leaders believe the world can be taken over as easily by the U.N. as by Moscow. Sometimes these two centers compete with each other as they are now doing in the Congo.)
12. Resist any attempt to outlaw the Communist Party.
13. Do away with all loyalty oaths.
14. Continue giving Russia access to the U.S. Patent Office.
15. Capture one or both of the political parties in the United States.
16. Use technical decisions of the courts to weaken basic American institutions by claiming their
activities violate civil rights.
17. Get control of the schools. Use them as transmission belts for socialism and current Communist propaganda. Soften the curriculum. Get control of teachers' associations. Put the party line in textbooks.
18. Gain control of all student newspapers.
19. Use student riots to foment public protests against programs or organizations which are under
Communist attack.
20. Infiltrate the press. Get control of book-review assignments, editorial writing, policymaking
positions.
21. Gain control of key positions in radio, TV, and motion pictures.
22. Continue discrediting American culture by degrading all forms of artistic expression. An
American Communist cell was told to "eliminate all good sculpture from parks and buildings, substitute shapeless, awkward and meaningless forms."
23. Control art critics and directors of art museums. "Our plan is to promote ugliness, repulsive,
meaningless art."
24. Eliminate all laws governing obscenity by calling them "censorship" and a violation of free speech and free press.
25. Break down cultural standards of morality by promoting pornography and obscenity in books,
magazines, motion pictures, radio, and TV.
26. Present homosexuality, degeneracy and promiscuity as "normal, natural, healthy."
27. Infiltrate the churches and replace revealed religion with "social" religion. Discredit the Bible
and emphasize the need for intellectual maturity which does not need a "religious crutch."
28. Eliminate prayer or any phase of religious expression in the schools on the ground that it
violates the principle of "separation of church and state."
29. Discredit the American Constitution by calling it inadequate, old-fashioned, out of step with modern needs, a hindrance to cooperation between nations on a worldwide basis.
30. Discredit the American Founding Fathers. Present them as selfish aristocrats who had no concern for the "common man."
31. Belittle all forms of American culture and discourage the teaching of American history on the
ground that it was only a minor part of the "big picture." Give more emphasis to Russian history since the Communists took over.
32. Support any socialist movement to give centralized control over any part of the culture--education, social agencies, welfare programs, mental health clinics, etc.
33. Eliminate all laws or procedures which interfere with the operation of the Communist apparatus.
34. Eliminate the House Committee on Un-American Activities.
35. Discredit and eventually dismantle the FBI.
36. Infiltrate and gain control of more unions.
37. Infiltrate and gain control of big business.
38. Transfer some of the powers of arrest from the police to social agencies. Treat all behavioral
problems as psychiatric disorders which no one but psychiatrists can understand [or treat].
39. Dominate the psychiatric profession and use mental health laws as a means of gaining coercive control over those who oppose Communist goals.
40. Discredit the family as an institution. Encourage promiscuity and easy divorce.
41. Emphasize the need to raise children away from the negative influence of parents. Attribute prejudices, mental blocks and retarding of children to suppressive influence of parents.
42. Create the impression that violence and insurrection are legitimate aspects of the American
tradition; that students and special-interest groups should rise up and use "united force" to solve economic, political or social problems.
43. Overthrow all colonial governments before native populations are ready for self-government.
44. Internationalize the Panama Canal.
45. Repeal the Connally reservation so the United States cannot prevent the World Court from seizing jurisdiction [over domestic problems. Give the World Court jurisdiction] over nations and individuals alike.

Greenlander is right, though. We really are trying to take over the world. We're trying to take your guns so that we can give you concussions by dropping gay wedding rings on you from tall buildings with impunity. If you listen carefully, sometimes you can hear the Internationale playing in the distance and that's one of us tending to our secret marihuana gardens while we plan our next abortions.

*puts gag on Letila*

Don't listen to him. He's crazy!

Not yet, fool! The time is not right!

First of all, it’s not like they were keeping it a secret… We are talking about pre-WWII, the red scare BEFORE McCarthyism..

However, as per the ACLU linkage with modern day.

Notice the date here. How many of these have been achieved already? How many would never have been achieved without the assistance of the Bureau progeny, the ACLU?

"The Naked Communist," by Cleon Skousen: CURRENT COMMUNIST GOALS (Circa 1963)


The date, 1963? Pre-WWII? My history must be wrong.

When the time comes, we will get the poor to club pro athletes and honest businessmen to death with welfare checks and force straight, God fearing men to have hot gay sex with eachother. :fluffle:

Oh yeah, and we're planning on replacing the Bible with the Communist Manifesto in all schools and the Star Spankled banner with the Internationale. And we will scrawl "God is Dead" on church walls and quote Nietzsche even though he wasn't even remotely socialist because it suits our goals of destroying religion. :sniper:

and force straight, God fearing men to have hot gay sex with eachother. :fluffle:

This phase of the plan shall be titled "Missionary: Impossible."

This phase of the plan shall be titled "Missionary: Impossible."

But it isn't.

Oh, and haven't we learned to ignore Greenlander's kooky conspiracy theories?

First of all, it’s not like they were keeping it a secret… We are talking about pre-WWII, the red scare BEFORE McCarthyism..

However, as per the ACLU linkage with modern day.

Notice the date here. How many of these have been achieved already? How many would never have been achieved without the assistance of the Bureau progeny, the ACLU?

"The Naked Communist," by Cleon Skousen: CURRENT COMMUNIST GOALS (Circa 1963)

1. U.S. acceptance of coexistence as the only alternative to atomic war.
2. U.S. willingness to capitulate in preference to engaging in atomic war.
3. Develop the illusion that total disarmament [by] the United States would be a demonstration of moral strength.
4. Permit free trade between all nations regardless of Communist affiliation and regardless of whether or not items could be used for war.
5. Extension of long-term loans to Russia and Soviet satellites.
6. Provide American aid to all nations regardless of Communist domination.
7. Grant recognition of Red China. Admission of Red China to the U.N.
8. Set up East and West Germany as separate states in spite of Khrushchev's promise in 1955 to settle the German question by free elections under supervision of the U.N.
9. Prolong the conferences to ban atomic tests because the United States has agreed to suspend tests as long as negotiations are in progress.
10. Allow all Soviet satellites individual representation in the U.N.
11. Promote the U.N. as the only hope for mankind. If its charter is rewritten, demand that it be set up as a one-world government with its own independent armed forces. (Some Communist leaders believe the world can be taken over as easily by the U.N. as by Moscow. Sometimes these two centers compete with each other as they are now doing in the Congo.)
12. Resist any attempt to outlaw the Communist Party.
13. Do away with all loyalty oaths.
14. Continue giving Russia access to the U.S. Patent Office.
15. Capture one or both of the political parties in the United States.
16. Use technical decisions of the courts to weaken basic American institutions by claiming their
activities violate civil rights.
17. Get control of the schools. Use them as transmission belts for socialism and current Communist propaganda. Soften the curriculum. Get control of teachers' associations. Put the party line in textbooks.
18. Gain control of all student newspapers.
19. Use student riots to foment public protests against programs or organizations which are under
Communist attack.
20. Infiltrate the press. Get control of book-review assignments, editorial writing, policymaking
positions.
21. Gain control of key positions in radio, TV, and motion pictures.
22. Continue discrediting American culture by degrading all forms of artistic expression. An
American Communist cell was told to "eliminate all good sculpture from parks and buildings, substitute shapeless, awkward and meaningless forms."
23. Control art critics and directors of art museums. "Our plan is to promote ugliness, repulsive,
meaningless art."
24. Eliminate all laws governing obscenity by calling them "censorship" and a violation of free speech and free press.
25. Break down cultural standards of morality by promoting pornography and obscenity in books,
magazines, motion pictures, radio, and TV.
26. Present homosexuality, degeneracy and promiscuity as "normal, natural, healthy."
27. Infiltrate the churches and replace revealed religion with "social" religion. Discredit the Bible
and emphasize the need for intellectual maturity which does not need a "religious crutch."
28. Eliminate prayer or any phase of religious expression in the schools on the ground that it
violates the principle of "separation of church and state."
29. Discredit the American Constitution by calling it inadequate, old-fashioned, out of step with modern needs, a hindrance to cooperation between nations on a worldwide basis.
30. Discredit the American Founding Fathers. Present them as selfish aristocrats who had no concern for the "common man."
31. Belittle all forms of American culture and discourage the teaching of American history on the
ground that it was only a minor part of the "big picture." Give more emphasis to Russian history since the Communists took over.
32. Support any socialist movement to give centralized control over any part of the culture--education, social agencies, welfare programs, mental health clinics, etc.
33. Eliminate all laws or procedures which interfere with the operation of the Communist apparatus.
34. Eliminate the House Committee on Un-American Activities.
35. Discredit and eventually dismantle the FBI.
36. Infiltrate and gain control of more unions.
37. Infiltrate and gain control of big business.
38. Transfer some of the powers of arrest from the police to social agencies. Treat all behavioral
problems as psychiatric disorders which no one but psychiatrists can understand [or treat].
39. Dominate the psychiatric profession and use mental health laws as a means of gaining coercive control over those who oppose Communist goals.
40. Discredit the family as an institution. Encourage promiscuity and easy divorce.
41. Emphasize the need to raise children away from the negative influence of parents. Attribute prejudices, mental blocks and retarding of children to suppressive influence of parents.
42. Create the impression that violence and insurrection are legitimate aspects of the American
tradition; that students and special-interest groups should rise up and use "united force" to solve economic, political or social problems.
43. Overthrow all colonial governments before native populations are ready for self-government.
44. Internationalize the Panama Canal.
45. Repeal the Connally reservation so the United States cannot prevent the World Court from seizing jurisdiction [over domestic problems. Give the World Court jurisdiction] over nations and individuals alike.

The ACLU helped the Soviets only if you think that freedom and rights and democracy are weaknesses not strengths. Only if you are afraid of the marketplace of ideas.

Greenlander is not really a troll. He's too literate.

...could work on spelling and punctuation though.

But it isn't.

Well, OK, I didn't really want to get that image into my head, but I concede the point. I think. Wouldn't that hurt your back though?

Chairman Mao also offered assistance in the cause of African-American civil rights, actions do not speak of intentions.

Damn those evil ACLU communists and their agenda, who knew it would produce such hateful concepts as "homosexuality being treated as normal"?! Surely they alone are responsible for post-modern art.

Frankly I find the whole thing hilarious.

The date, 1963? Pre-WWII? My history must be wrong.

One must endeavor to differentiate between two different answers, they are separated by a period and two spaces, creating what we call a new paragraph.

Well, OK, I didn't really want to get that image into my head,

I don't appreciate that comment.

but I concede the point. I think. Wouldn't that hurt your back though?

Well, it hasn't so far.

I don't appreciate that comment.

Wasn't intended to be offensive, (and I apologise if it was) but i'm sure you find the thought of male/female relations equally uninspiring.

Wasn't intended to be offensive, but i'm sure you find the thought of male/female relations equally uninspiring.

Uninspiring? Perhaps. Distasteful, as you let shine on? No. You're entitled to your opinion, but I do not appreciate you sharing it with me. I would never do so with you. It's denigrating.

Yes, I know, I shouldn't be doing this. But anyway, some of these points just seemed directly stupid and mindless.

1. U.S. acceptance of coexistence as the only alternative to atomic war.
2. U.S. willingness to capitulate in preference to engaging in atomic war.
Okay, so you would rather be blown up then along with everyone else? And why would the U.S. be anymore willing to capitulate than the Soviets? Who did capitulate in the end anyway?


3. Develop the illusion that total disarmament [by] the United States would be a demonstration of moral strength.
Many countries have long since cut down on their armies. The United States has improved it. How can that be morally correct? (No, China should not be increasing its army either.) Are you going to go around killing everyone or something? Because I really doubt the US needs the kind of army they have.

4. Permit free trade between all nations regardless of Communist affiliation and regardless of whether or not items could be used for war.
This is capitalism, not communism. This is what the United States wants. There's more to it than that, but that's it in a nutshell.

5. Extension of long-term loans to Russia and Soviet satellites.
This too, is capitalism.

6. Provide American aid to all nations regardless of Communist domination.
The aid should not go to the governments, but the people. Hence why some nations that are ruled by dictators also get aid.

7. Grant recognition of Red China. Admission of Red China to the U.N.
This is because, *Gasp* The US is not the only major power in the UN. Russia, France and Britain all have a veto too.

10. Allow all Soviet satellites individual representation in the U.N.
Balance of power - They got representation, so did some of the more western baised nations. Hence, they balanced each other out and all got represented. Everybody is happier. Everybody.

12. Resist any attempt to outlaw the Communist Party.
Why exactly should it be outlawed?

13. Do away with all loyalty oaths.
I hate nationalism.

14. Continue giving Russia access to the U.S. Patent Office.
Why not? You have access to theirs I bet.

23. Control art critics and directors of art museums. "Our plan is to promote ugliness, repulsive,
meaningless art."
This is a very common thing nowadays and it's hardly communist. A lot of artists make ugly, repulsive and meaningless art. Especially after World War I and II, because it appeared that nothing really had any meaning (enough of that, point is: Not a communist thing, at least, not only).

24. Eliminate all laws governing obscenity by calling them "censorship" and a violation of free speech and free press.
Sometimes, what is defined as obscenity (then censored) isn't quite as obscene as it appears to be. I bet you would be appaled at some of the laws that were in effect in the 1930s in Britain.

25. Break down cultural standards of morality by promoting pornography and obscenity in books,
magazines, motion pictures, radio, and TV.
A shame really. Don't blame communism however. It could be anyone and I don't think communism is anymore to blame than any other potential source.

26. Present homosexuality, degeneracy and promiscuity as "normal, natural, healthy."
It's normal, there will always be a percentage of our society that does it (roughly 10% I believe, correct me if I'm wrong). Natural, why isn't it natural to those that feel that way? I don't see health risks with it, anymore than I see health risks with normal relationships.

27. Infiltrate the churches and replace revealed religion with "social" religion. Discredit the Bible
and emphasize the need for intellectual maturity which does not need a "religious crutch."
Give me one good reason to emphasize christianity above others, or any other religion, in public schools? Choice yes, forced no.

28. Eliminate prayer or any phase of religious expression in the schools on the ground that it
violates the principle of "separation of church and state."
First of all, prayer is a private thing that should be a matter of choice at the very least (hence, private schools). Secondly, public schools are also known as state schools, hence, no church in public churchs, hence, no prayer whatsoever. It makes sense to me.

32. Support any socialist movement to give centralized control over any part of the culture--education, social agencies, welfare programs, mental health clinics, etc.
Ehh, isn't that what political parties are for? To affect society according to the wishes of the people?

34. Eliminate the House Committee on Un-American Activities.
Un-American Activities. Smells of nationalism again to me.

35. Discredit and eventually dismantle the FBI.
They did that fine by themselves.

36. Infiltrate and gain control of more unions.
Why the need to infiltrate? Unions are by their very nature a socialist aspect of life. They're there to support the workers. They help society too, but avoiding an industrial revolution scenario (which was horrendous).

37. Infiltrate and gain control of big business.
How communist of them.

40. Discredit the family as an institution. Encourage promiscuity and easy divorce.
Why is this communist?

41. Emphasize the need to raise children away from the negative influence of parents. Attribute prejudices, mental blocks and retarding of children to suppressive influence of parents.
Why is this communist?

42. Create the impression that violence and insurrection are legitimate aspects of the American
tradition; that students and special-interest groups should rise up and use "united force" to solve economic, political or social problems.
Well that is democracy. A united force of the people. A government for the people, by the people and of the people as far as I remember. So if the majority 'rise up' to accomplish something, I suppose then, that it must be done according to democratic values.

43. Overthrow all colonial governments before native populations are ready for self-government.
What?

44. Internationalize the Panama Canal.
Isn't that better for everyone?


Please note, I'm not being hostile, merely inquistive.

Uninspiring? Perhaps. Distasteful, as you let shine on? No. You're entitled to your opinion, but I do not appreciate you sharing it with me. I would never do so with you.

I apologise. It was absolutely not my intention to upset you in any way.

I apologise. It was absolutely not my intention to upset you in any way.

I am perhaps coming across as more indignant than I am, but sometimes you just get tired of it, you know?

I am perhaps coming across as more indignant than I am, but sometimes you just get tired of it, you know?

Fair enough. Putting myself in your shoes, I understand. I'll be more careful in the future. :)

Fair enough. Putting myself in your shoes, I understand. I'll be more careful in the future. :)

Thank you. :)

One must endeavor to differentiate between two different answers, they are separated by a period and two spaces, creating what we call a new paragraph.

Or maybe you're talking out of your ass one moment and talking out of your ass, the next, trying to cover it with sarcasm!

I like sarcasm. It can be an effective rhetorical tool to show the ridiculousness of certain 'arguments.' It wasn't in your case, but still.

Now let's examine your prophetic friend, Cleon Scrotumsky or whatever his name is. (I assume he must be a former CIA director, Nostradamus's descendant or Jesus Christ reincarnated.)

1. U.S. acceptance of coexistence as the only alternative to atomic war.

Hasn't happened.


2. U.S. willingness to capitulate in preference to engaging in atomic war.

I suppose you could say this happened if any nation challenged the US with nuclear weapons and the US backed down. Has that happened?


3. Develop the illusion that total disarmament [by] the United States would be a demonstration of moral strength.

Hasn't happened.


4. Permit free trade between all nations regardless of Communist affiliation and regardless of whether or not items could be used for war.

Ah yes, communism is promotion of free trade. Nice one, Cleon Fuckface. Now we know where all those Adam Smith economists come from. Soviet Russia! In fact, Adam Smith himself was heavily influenced by Stalinists!


5. Extension of long-term loans to Russia and Soviet satellites

If that had happened, it would have contributed to Russian and Soviet sattelites longterm bankruptcy. Notice the lack of a Soviet Union today and the shit-poor Russian economy. I guess Cleon is against those results though.

6. Provide American aid to all nations regardless of Communist domination.

Yeah, exactly like today where we give billions of dollars to North Korea and Cuba. Oh wait we don't.


7. Grant recognition of Red China. Admission of Red China to the U.N.

Ooh! A correct one! Nixon recognized China, and I think China got into the UN with a little more help than the ACLU, but maybe Cleon knows more about politics than I do.

8. Set up East and West Germany as separate states in spite of Khrushchev's promise in 1955 to settle the German question by free elections under supervision of the U.N.

Damn, Kruschev lied? And today we have both East and West Germany as a result. Oh no wait, we don't. And the ACLU has nothing to do with this.

9. Prolong the conferences to ban atomic tests because the United States has agreed to suspend tests as long as negotiations are in progress.

Thus, we were and are disarmed before the Communist might. Oh no wait, we weren't.

10. Allow all Soviet satellites individual representation in the U.N.

I suppose we didn't go to nuclear war to prevent that. Damn that ACLU, always controlling the UN!


11. Promote the U.N. as the only hope for mankind. If its charter is rewritten, demand that it be set up as a one-world government with its own independent armed forces. (Some Communist leaders believe the world can be taken over as easily by the U.N. as by Moscow. Sometimes these two centers compete with each other as they are now doing in the Congo.)

Yep I sure hear a lot of people who advocate one world government with the UN in charge. Credible sources, too, that our government takes seriously! No way, I'm not being sarcastic.


12. Resist any attempt to outlaw the Communist Party.

This HAS come to pass! Wow, I am inspired by the prophetic insight. Apparently the US continues to allow political parties in the name of that "freedom" and "liberty" thing after all!

13. Do away with all loyalty oaths.

Remember when Bush didn't bother with a loyalty oath when swearing in as President or Governor or a member of the air national guard?

I don't either.

I think I'll just skip a few of the more uninteresting ones, if you don't mind... maybe if you bother to back them up with sources other than Cleon, I will pay attention to every one individually.


17. Get control of the schools. Use them as transmission belts for socialism and current Communist propaganda. Soften the curriculum. Get control of teachers' associations. Put the party line in textbooks.

Having just been at school I can definitely say that my English textbook echoes the Communist party line, and that my teachers are all communists, and that the school is in fact run by communists, and hey no way am I lying here just for bitter sarcastic amusement!

18. Gain control of all student newspapers.

You know, you have a point. Every student newspaper I've ever known of was edited and published and written by commies. Again, I am totally not being sarcastic, Mister Period And End Of Sentence Means I'm Not At All Talking Out Of My Ass.


19. Use student riots to foment public protests against programs or organizations which are under
Communist attack.

What's a student riot? Furthermore, what's a "program or organization which is under Communist attack?" Maybe we can define some of these organizations and programs and then show how the multiple student riots "foment" public protests against them.

Or maybe, you know, this is bullshit.


20. Infiltrate the press. Get control of book-review assignments, editorial writing, policymaking
positions.

HARRY POTTER IS TEH COMMUNIST


21. Gain control of key positions in radio, TV, and motion pictures.

RUSH LIMBAUGH IS TEH COMMUNIST11!!!

22. Continue discrediting American culture by degrading all forms of artistic expression. An
American Communist cell was told to "eliminate all good sculpture from parks and buildings, substitute shapeless, awkward and meaningless forms."

COMMUNISTS ARE BEHIND CRAPPY ART1!!

It's amazing how Cleon knew what communist "cells" were being told. He must have been psychic, just like you Greenlander!


23. Control art critics and directors of art museums. "Our plan is to promote ugliness, repulsive,
meaningless art."

AGAIN ALL BAD ART IS FROM COMMUNISTS ITS PROOOOOF!


24. Eliminate all laws governing obscenity by calling them "censorship" and a violation of free speech and free press.

Damn! Fuck! Shit! I KNEW free speech and free press was just an excuse to get the communists to destroy the American right to govern obscenity! God damn, holy cocksmokes, I am a communist pawn and so is every fucking other person in the country!11!1!!


25. Break down cultural standards of morality by promoting pornography and obscenity in books,
magazines, motion pictures, radio, and TV.

Yes because there certainly is no CAPITALIST motivation for making pornography and selling it, or becoming a porn star, or selling a porn magazine and retiring in a giant mansion with 7 ridiculously sexy women! No, those activities involve no market incentive, since of course sex does not sell... instead, it's because of the Communists and their fountains of wealth they somehow saved for American porno instead of the Soviet Union!


26. Present homosexuality, degeneracy and promiscuity as "normal, natural, healthy."

I bet Cleon got fucked up the ass, liked it, and immediately suspected his preference as being part of an obvious Communist plot. I know, I know, that's an ad hominem, or would be if I thought getting fucked up the ass didn't happen in nature due to evidence from Bonobo chimps and other primates.

But of course I'm only saying that because the Commies brainwashed me with school newspapers. Thats incidentally why I believe in free trade and freedom of speech - the commies made me do it!

27. Infiltrate the churches and replace revealed religion with "social" religion. Discredit the Bible
and emphasize the need for intellectual maturity which does not need a "religious crutch."

Haha, he called the Bible a religious crutch! Well, he said it, not me.

What exactly is a "social religion?" Sounds pretty damn vague if you ask me.


28. Eliminate prayer or any phase of religious expression in the schools on the ground that it
violates the principle of "separation of church and state."

Ooh, because it DOES, dumbass. Except people *can* still pray in school. They just can't have teacher-led, government-tax-funded prayers in public schools.

I guess thats just one more sign of teh evil Commies.


29. Discredit the American Constitution by calling it inadequate, old-fashioned, out of step with modern needs, a hindrance to cooperation between nations on a worldwide basis.

This hasn't happened yet, but I suppose with folks like Cleon leading the way by removing freedom and liberty, we'll be OK.


30. Discredit the American Founding Fathers. Present them as selfish aristocrats who had no concern for the "common man."

Bullshit. Another one that hasn't happened.


31. Belittle all forms of American culture and discourage the teaching of American history on the
ground that it was only a minor part of the "big picture." Give more emphasis to Russian history since the Communists took over.

In my college I could take American History or World History. There was no Russian History class. I could take an American History of Environmentalism class. There was no Russian History of Environmental class. But I guess my college must be one of the few, lucky ones spared this latest devious attempt by the commies?


32. Support any socialist movement to give centralized control over any part of the culture--education, social agencies, welfare programs, mental health clinics, etc.

Ooh this happened. There exist authoritarians today, and even socialists.

I'm beginning to believe in the great communist conspiracy now.


33. Eliminate all laws or procedures which interfere with the operation of the Communist apparatus.

Well, I can't find the law outlawing the Communist party.

Must be true!1!!!


34. Eliminate the House Committee on Un-American Activities.

Holy-shit! it's gone, just as my obscenity is here! I bet your ass is hurting now, Cleon.


35. Discredit and eventually dismantle the FBI.

Or, make it larger and grant it more powers and funding. Whichever.


36. Infiltrate and gain control of more unions.
37. Infiltrate and gain control of big business.

Clearly, every union is a communist front, just as every large corporation is. Didn't you know? Gates isn't a capitalist... he's a communist!


38. Transfer some of the powers of arrest from the police to social agencies. Treat all behavioral
problems as psychiatric disorders which no one but psychiatrists can understand [or treat].

Yeah just the other day I was arrested by the ACLU, for example, and yesterday I saw some of the Salvation Army brandishing squad automatic machine guns. As well, the DSM-IV, the bible of psychiatry, is in fact full of communist party lines!


39. Dominate the psychiatric profession and use mental health laws as a means of gaining coercive control over those who oppose Communist goals.

In other words, if I call you crazy for believing this shit, I MUST BE UNDER COMMUNIST INFLUENCE!


40. Discredit the family as an institution. Encourage promiscuity and easy divorce.

Yeah, a family is NOT an "institution." Welcome to the real world pal, where a family is a natural grouping of related people. Oh and where people have been promiscuous since pre-recorded history, but hey maybe Helen of Troy was influenced by the Communists TOO.


41. Emphasize the need to raise children away from the negative influence of parents. Attribute prejudices, mental blocks and retarding of children to suppressive influence of parents.

Hasn't happened.


42. Create the impression that violence and insurrection are legitimate aspects of the American
tradition; that students and special-interest groups should rise up and use "united force" to solve economic, political or social problems.

force =/= violence or insurrection

What an idiot.


43. Overthrow all colonial governments before native populations are ready for self-government.

Hasn't happened. Some colonial governments still exist. But it's only a matter of time before the ACLU overthrows them.


44. Internationalize the Panama Canal.

Oh NO! You mean the Republic of Panama is actually an international organization?


45. Repeal the Connally reservation so the United States cannot prevent the World Court from seizing jurisdiction [over domestic problems. Give the World Court jurisdiction] over nations and individuals alike.

Yeah I have jury duty today, and it's a World Court judge and it's definitely not US law they'll be talking about.



You've convinced me, Greenlander. Everything that has happened since the 60's is just as Cleon says. I realize now that my stance on free trade, free speech, separation of Church and State is in fact just a manipulation by the ACLU and the Communists.

Everyone, please be wary. You are all under Communist World Government control. Psychiatrists and armed charity institutions police the streets. The World Court rules on all matters of domestic law. Panama Canal is controlled by Communists. The Republicans and Democrats are both controlled by Communists. Crappy art and sculpture is due to Communists. The fact that all that sounds crazy is in fact, part of the Communist plot. :) And not in any way due to the fact that that is crazy bullshit.

How do you tell a Communist? Well, it's someone who reads Marx and Lenin. And how do you tell an anti-Communist? It's someone who understands Marx and Lenin. ~ Ronald Reagan

--- ACLU ---

Roger Baldwin
The first director of the ACLU, was also a communist. He explains in his book, Liberty Under the Soviets, I joined, “I don’t regret being a part of the Communist tactic, which increased the effectiveness of a good cause. I knew what I was doing. I was not an innocent liberal. I wanted what the Communists wanted…” He founded the ACLU in 1920. Several crucial leaders of the ACLU were members of the Communist Party. Baldwin also stated “We are for SOCIALISM, disarmament, and ultimately for abolishing the state itself... We seek the social ownership of property, the abolition of the propertied class, and the SOLE CONTROL of those who produce wealth. COMMUNISM is the goal.”

Earl Browder
(co-founder of the ACLU with Crystal Eastman) was general secretary of the Communist Party of the United States from 1930 through its dissolution in 1940’s. Browder declared that the ACLU functioned as "a transmission belt" for the party. When the party was reconstituted as the Communist Political Association later, Browder was chosen as its president.

William Z. Foster
Then National Chairman of the Communist Party USA and an ACLU charter member of the ACLU, is famous for this 1932 quote: "The establishment of an American Soviet government will involve the confiscation of large landed estates in town and country, and also, the whole body to forests, mineral deposits, lakes, rivers and so on." He was the author of Toward Soviet America.

Greenlander is not really a troll. He's too literate.

:D

As an I american I do apologise. ;)

21. Gain control of key positions in radio, TV, and motion pictures.


Didn't Boris and Natasha loose to Moose and Squiril?

Didn't Boris and Natasha loose to Moose and Squiril?
Always.

Always.

Ahh! We don't have to worry as they failed at step 21! ;)

okay fine the ACLU is partisan..we get the point.

How do you tell a Communist? Well, it's someone who reads Marx and Lenin. And how do you tell an anti-Communist? It's someone who understands Marx and Lenin. ~ Ronald Reagan

--- ACLU ---

Roger Baldwin
The first director of the ACLU, was also a communist. He explains in his book, Liberty Under the Soviets, I joined, “I don’t regret being a part of the Communist tactic, which increased the effectiveness of a good cause. I knew what I was doing. I was not an innocent liberal. I wanted what the Communists wanted…” He founded the ACLU in 1920. Several crucial leaders of the ACLU were members of the Communist Party. Baldwin also stated “We are for SOCIALISM, disarmament, and ultimately for abolishing the state itself... We seek the social ownership of property, the abolition of the propertied class, and the SOLE CONTROL of those who produce wealth. COMMUNISM is the goal.”

Earl Browder
(co-founder of the ACLU with Crystal Eastman) was general secretary of the Communist Party of the United States from 1930 through its dissolution in 1940’s. Browder declared that the ACLU functioned as "a transmission belt" for the party. When the party was reconstituted as the Communist Political Association later, Browder was chosen as its president.

William Z. Foster
Then National Chairman of the Communist Party USA and an ACLU charter member of the ACLU, is famous for this 1932 quote: "The establishment of an American Soviet government will involve the confiscation of large landed estates in town and country, and also, the whole body to forests, mineral deposits, lakes, rivers and so on." He was the author of Toward Soviet America.
i dont see the problem

perhaps the founders/early members of the aclu had communist leanings. many many people of the time did, especially in the 30s when capitalism was failing massive numbers of people in the US.

what does th at have to do with today?

it is similar to those who advocate the destruction of planned parenthood because its founder margaret sanger believed in eugenics.

both observations are irrelevant to today. both organizations would just need to be reinvented if they were disbanded due to embarassment over their founders.

since the vast majority of those on the left have never been interested in making the US into a communist country and have never had any dealings or taken any commands from the soviet union, i cant see that its demise has anything to do with the supposed lethargy of the modern left.

"The Naked Communist," by Cleon Skousen: CURRENT COMMUNIST GOALS (Circa 1963)
-snip-
22. Continue discrediting American culture by degrading all forms of artistic expression. An
American Communist cell was told to "eliminate all good sculpture from parks and buildings, substitute shapeless, awkward and meaningless forms."
23. Control art critics and directors of art museums. "Our plan is to promote ugliness, repulsive,
meaningless art."
Yeah this is where I started to smell bullshit. Why would they refer to their own preferred artistic styles as "ugly"? Most of what you outlined is social libertarianism, not communism or socialism. Which would mean that the Libertarians (http://www.lp.org) are a communist party. :rolleyes:

I'm still not sure if Greenlander actually believes all this, or if this is just his "Ultimate Assault on Liberalism". :rolleyes:

You know, come to think of it, the CPUSA IMO would actually be the communist organization in the US that one should be the LEAST afraid of. Even at their height they were pretty half-arsed commies, really. If there was a time they were actually thinking about revolution, it passed during the United Front against Fascism period.

After that, pretty much all left and hard left forces see the CP as a drag on their work, pulling social movements down to lowest-common-denominator liberalism (hence the spat of parties forming in the 60's). Today they're all but dead, with most members who aren't friggin' octogenerians having been recruited over the Internet.

How do you tell a Communist? Well, it's someone who reads Marx and Lenin. And how do you tell an anti-Communist? It's someone who understands Marx and Lenin. ~ Ronald Reagan

--- ACLU ---

Roger Baldwin
The first director of the ACLU, was also a communist. He explains in his book, Liberty Under the Soviets, I joined, “I don’t regret being a part of the Communist tactic, which increased the effectiveness of a good cause. I knew what I was doing. I was not an innocent liberal. I wanted what the Communists wanted…” He founded the ACLU in 1920. Several crucial leaders of the ACLU were members of the Communist Party. Baldwin also stated “We are for SOCIALISM, disarmament, and ultimately for abolishing the state itself... We seek the social ownership of property, the abolition of the propertied class, and the SOLE CONTROL of those who produce wealth. COMMUNISM is the goal.”

Earl Browder
(co-founder of the ACLU with Crystal Eastman) was general secretary of the Communist Party of the United States from 1930 through its dissolution in 1940’s. Browder declared that the ACLU functioned as "a transmission belt" for the party. When the party was reconstituted as the Communist Political Association later, Browder was chosen as its president.

William Z. Foster
Then National Chairman of the Communist Party USA and an ACLU charter member of the ACLU, is famous for this 1932 quote: "The establishment of an American Soviet government will involve the confiscation of large landed estates in town and country, and also, the whole body to forests, mineral deposits, lakes, rivers and so on." He was the author of Toward Soviet America.


Meh. So? So what? Who cares?

Regardless, this scare-mongering is mostly false or misleading and it overlooks basic facts.

In 1940, the ACLU formally barred Communists from leadership or staff positions, and either then or later took the position that it didn't even want them as members.

Roger Baldwin was not a member of the Communist Party. Most quotes attributed to him about Communism are false. Regardless, he openly denounced Communism and, in particular, the Soviet Union by at least the 1930s. He became a vociferous anti-communist.

The ACLU was known in the 1930s for criticizing attempts by Communists to silence free speech -- both in the Soviet Union and in the U.S.

At the turn of the last century, before Stalin's evil was revealed, many sympathized intellectually with Marxism and politically with the Soviet revolution. Many of these people later became leading anti-communists.

None of this has a damn thing to do with work of the ACLU over the last 85 years. "Freedom Is Why We're Here." (http://www.aclu.org/Files/OpenFile.cfm?id=10740) The ACLU is made up of people across the political spectrum, including many arch-conservatives and Republicans and many, many Christians. Greenlander is fighting a fictional foe.

*snip*

You've convinced me, Greenlander. Everything that has happened since the 60's is just as Cleon says. I realize now that my stance on free trade, free speech, separation of Church and State is in fact just a manipulation by the ACLU and the Communists.

Everyone, please be wary. You are all under Communist World Government control. Psychiatrists and armed charity institutions police the streets. The World Court rules on all matters of domestic law. Panama Canal is controlled by Communists. The Republicans and Democrats are both controlled by Communists. Crappy art and sculpture is due to Communists. The fact that all that sounds crazy is in fact, part of the Communist plot. :) And not in any way due to the fact that that is crazy bullshit.


PWN!

Hedonist Elitists = Soviet Revolutionaries = "Reds" = Civil Liberties Lawyers

Don' you just love it?

Wouldn't hedonist elitists be quite happy to roll around in their money and look down their noses at those pesky workers..?

1919 – Communist Rules for Revolution

1. Corrupt the young: get them away from religion. Get them interested in sex. Make them superficial; destroy their ruggedness.

2. Get control of all means of publicity. Get peoples’ minds off their government by focusing their attention on athletics, sexy books, plays and other trivialities.

3. Divide people into hostile groups by constantly harping on controversial matters of no importance.

4. Destroy the peoples’ faith in their natural leaders by holding the latter up to contempt, ridicule and (speak against, condemnatory utterances)

5. Always preach ;true democracy; but seize power as fast and as ruthlessly as possible.

6. By encouraging government extravagance, destroy its credit; produce fear of inflation, rising prices and general discontent.

7. Foment strikes in vital industries; encourage civil disorders and foster a lenient and soft attitude on the part of government toward these disorders.

8. By special argument cause a breakdown of the old moral virtues; honesty, sobriety, continence, faith in the pledged word, ruggedness.

9. Cause the registration of all firearms on some pretext with a view of confiscation of them and leaving the population helpless.
This is an old bit of false Folklore. rules for revolution (http://www.snopes.com/language/document/commrule.htm) Actually we Communists are even more crafty. What Communists, like myself, are really doing is pose as Libertarians in order to fool the unsuspecting. We truely are socialist wolves in capitalist sheeps clothing. ;)

Meh. So? So what? Who cares?

Regardless, this scare-mongering is mostly false or misleading and it overlooks basic facts.

In 1940, the ACLU formally barred Communists from leadership or staff positions, and either then or later took the position that it didn't even want them as members.


I already mentioned that, he switched from the soviet party to the secondary communist party in America.

From the very first post in this thread:

One group consisted mostly of the Russian and East European immigrants, who emphasized adherence to Marxist orthodoxy and proletarian revolution (the one that founded the ACLB). The other group, dominated by native-born American radicals who sought influence the masses with political ideology. But these conflicting objectives combined with the discrepancy between Communist doctrine and American reality, kept the Communist movement in the United States in two distinct camps. The ACLU only switched from one Soviet puppet party to the other native communist party to try and distance themselves from the Soviets (membership in the American party rose to about 75,000 by 1938 following the Great Depression), because they were beginning to lose members after the signing of the Nazi-Soviet Nonaggression Pact of 1939 was so unpopular with Americans in general. In other words, the ACLU only kicked out the most known soviet leadership members because it was trying to stop the mass exodus of Americans from their membership.

Roger Baldwin was not a member of the Communist Party. Most quotes attributed to him about Communism are false. Regardless, he openly denounced Communism and, in particular, the Soviet Union by at least the 1930s. He became a vociferous anti-communist.

Don’t exactly know your ACLU history do you? Just making stuff up as you go along or what?

Baldwin:
If American champions of civil liberty could all think in terms of economic freedom as the goal of their labors, they too would accept “workers’ democracy” as far superior to what the capitalist world offers to any but a small minority. Yes, and they would accept — regretfully, of course — the necessity of dictatorship while the job of reorganizing society on a socialist basis is being done.

Roger Baldwin, wrote this for Soviet Russia Today in 1934
http://www.law.ucla.edu/volokh/blog/baldwin.pdf
When Baldwin finally turned, it was in 1939 and he turned from Stalinism, not communism.


The ACLU was known in the 1930s for criticizing attempts by Communists to silence free speech -- both in the Soviet Union and in the U.S.
At the turn of the last century, before Stalin's evil was revealed, many sympathized intellectually with Marxism and politically with the Soviet revolution. Many of these people later became leading anti-communists.

Baldwin defended the Soviet Union, sure he criticized its repression of dissent and civil liberties whenever the topic became uncomfortable and potentially embarrassing, but he ultimately defended such repression when he said:

I saw in the Soviet Union many opponents of the regime. I visited a dozen prisons -- the political sections among them. I saw considerable of the work of the OGPU. I heard a good many stories of severity, even of brutality, and many of them from the victims. While I sympathized with personal distress I just could not bring myself to get excited over the suppression of opposition when I stacked it up against what I saw of fresh, vigorous expressions of free living by workers and peasants all over the land. And further, no champion of a socialist society could fail to see that some suppression was necessary to achieve it. It could not all be done by persuasion.

PWN!
... How very erudite :rolleyes: But right back at you, thank you very much.

This is an old bit of false Folklore. rules for revolution (http://www.snopes.com/language/document/commrule.htm) Actually we Communists are even more crafty. What Communists, like myself, are really doing is pose as Libertarians in order to fool the unsuspecting. We truely are socialist wolves in capitalist sheeps clothing. ;)

That very website says it doesn't know how old the list is but that it was at least 25 years old when quoted in 1970 by the New York Times... At some point, the document is going to be old. I would say 1945 is old enough, I'll still quote it.

When The New York Times ran an article on this piece way back in 1970, it had already been circulating for about twenty-five years

That very website says it doesn't know how old the list is but that it was at least 25 years on when quoted in 1970 by the New York Times... At some point, the document is going to be old. I would say 1945 is old enough, I'll still quote it.When Montana senator Lee Metcalf looked into the issue back then, he checked with the FBI, CIA, and the Senate Internal Security Subcommittee; found that "exhaustive research" had proved the rules to be "completely spurious"; and noted that "the extreme right also follows rules, one of which is to make maximum use of false, misleading and fear-inspiring quotations." Nonetheless, numerous Congressional members received copies of the rules list from alarmed constituents and, believing that nobody else was yet aware of them, continued to insert them into the Congressional Record.

.

The Reds lost to the phillys tonight in the nith inning 11 to 10 it was a hell of a comeback by the fightin Phills who are trying to stay in the race for the wildcard , and actually have an outside chance of winning the division .

[I]f American champions of civil liberty could all think in terms of economic freedom as the goal of their labors, they too would accept “workers’ democracy” as far superior to what the capitalist world offers to any but a small minority. Yes, and they would accept — regretfully, of course — the necessity of dictatorship while the job of reorganizing society on a socialist basis is being done.



So we have about a twelve percent poverty rate..and those twelve percent are arguably better off than ninety percent of the people of Soviet Russia at the time of the cold war . So the communist solution is to make ninety percent or more of the population equaly poor or equally rich ( :D ) just with no money property or hope of advancement etc....the other 10 percent being the ruling elite and the criminals . Hmmm Where can I sign up ?

I cant wait to bring back this proven system of government to replace mine ...YAY REDS !! Go Reds !! What a comback comerades !!

It's not to say that liberals want communism as a form of government. The implication is that they're branches of the same tree. Atheism, Darwinism, and naturalism were all tactics that even Hitler used in order to bring uniform to Germans.

By applying only those "ethics" that keep people uniform, and implying the unexistence of morality and a God... the implication is that, since there is no God and we came from matter, matter is not moral, and therefore what stands in the way of us doing whatever we please? Atheism and sexuality are tactics that all people who want uniformity in a country use in order to convince people to see things there way.

It's not to say that liberals want communism as a form of government. The implication is that they're branches of the same tree. Atheism, Darwinism, and naturalism were all tactics that even Hitler used in order to bring uniform to Germans.

By applying only those "ethics" that keep people uniform, and implying the unexistence of morality and a God... the implication is that, since there is no God and we came from matter, matter is not moral, and therefore what stands in the way of us doing whatever we please? Atheism and sexuality are tactics that all people who want uniformity in a country use in order to convince people to see things there way.


*Falls over in happy shock*

I read it twice to make sure I wasn't misreading it, well said, Sir! :D

It's not to say that liberals want communism as a form of government.
Only in America....

The implication is that they're branches of the same tree. Atheism, Darwinism, and naturalism were all tactics that even Hitler used in order to bring uniform to Germans.
Hitler was everything but atheist. His state wasn't Christian, but it certainly was religious.

Atheism and sexuality are tactics that all people who want uniformity in a country use in order to convince people to see things there way.
Sexuality is our evil tool to bring down your happy 1950s vision of the world?

Greenlander has some serious issues if he believes the current democratic party to be left leaning in any way.

That's all I'm going to say in this thread, no doubt this will (or has already I didn't read the whole thing) descend into a flame war and those are only really fun when it's on the topic of religion.

Right On Greenlander!

The dimocrat party/marxistleninist party of today should be extradited to Syria or China with their butt brothers where they can freely sing kum-bah-yah while the true Americans, the ones that believe in this country and realize THAT ROME IS BURNING, can try to plug this sinking ship, America.

Greenlander has some serious issues if he believes the current democratic party to be left leaning in any way.

That's all I'm going to say in this thread, no doubt this will (or has already I didn't read the whole thing) descend into a flame war and those are only really fun when it's on the topic of religion.

Hear hear.

It's not to say that liberals want communism as a form of government. The implication is that they're branches of the same tree. Atheism, Darwinism, and naturalism were all tactics that even Hitler used in order to bring uniform to Germans.

Hitler also used charisma, public oration and concern for the economy to bring uniformity to Germany.

So are you and Greenlander also against charisma, public oration and being concerned about the economy?

Atheism and sexuality are tactics that all people who want uniformity in a country use in order to convince people to see things there way.

...and sexuality as well? Are you an asexual person? Tell me something, do you have, or have you ever, or will you ever have, a sexual relationship with anyone? If so, you might be part of the "Communist" "branch!" :D

You people have no argument. You're just arguing for a return to some made-up glory age in the 50s and your own puritannical sense of morality. That's it. No more, no less.

The dimocrat party/marxistleninist party of today should be extradited to Syria or China with their butt brothers where they can freely sing kum-bah-yah while the true Americans, the ones that believe in this country and realize THAT ROME IS BURNING, can try to plug this sinking ship, America.

How very erudite of you. ;) Maybe you should be extradited to an English class.

I already mentioned that, he switched from the soviet party to the secondary communist party in America.

From the very first post in this thread:

One group consisted mostly of the Russian and East European immigrants, who emphasized adherence to Marxist orthodoxy and proletarian revolution (the one that founded the ACLB). The other group, dominated by native-born American radicals who sought influence the masses with political ideology. But these conflicting objectives combined with the discrepancy between Communist doctrine and American reality, kept the Communist movement in the United States in two distinct camps. The ACLU only switched from one Soviet puppet party to the other native communist party to try and distance themselves from the Soviets (membership in the American party rose to about 75,000 by 1938 following the Great Depression), because they were beginning to lose members after the signing of the Nazi-Soviet Nonaggression Pact of 1939 was so unpopular with Americans in general. In other words, the ACLU only kicked out the most known soviet leadership members because it was trying to stop the mass exodus of Americans from their membership.



Don’t exactly know your ACLU history do you? Just making stuff up as you go along or what?

Baldwin:
If American champions of civil liberty could all think in terms of economic freedom as the goal of their labors, they too would accept “workers’ democracy” as far superior to what the capitalist world offers to any but a small minority. Yes, and they would accept — regretfully, of course — the necessity of dictatorship while the job of reorganizing society on a socialist basis is being done.

Roger Baldwin, wrote this for Soviet Russia Today in 1934
http://www.law.ucla.edu/volokh/blog/baldwin.pdf
When Baldwin finally turned, it was in 1939 and he turned from Stalinism, not communism.



Baldwin defended the Soviet Union, sure he criticized its repression of dissent and civil liberties whenever the topic became uncomfortable and potentially embarrassing, but he ultimately defended such repression when he said:

I saw in the Soviet Union many opponents of the regime. I visited a dozen prisons -- the political sections among them. I saw considerable of the work of the OGPU. I heard a good many stories of severity, even of brutality, and many of them from the victims. While I sympathized with personal distress I just could not bring myself to get excited over the suppression of opposition when I stacked it up against what I saw of fresh, vigorous expressions of free living by workers and peasants all over the land. And further, no champion of a socialist society could fail to see that some suppression was necessary to achieve it. It could not all be done by persuasion.


... How very erudite :rolleyes: But right back at you, thank you very much.

*sigh*

From your own source -- Professor Volokh:

Anyone who questions Baldwin's "recantation" and criticism of the Soviet regime should read his book: A New Slavery: The Communist Betrayal of Human rights. (http://www.bolerium.com/cgi-bin/bol48/79064.html)

http://volokh.com/archives/archive_2005_09_04-2005_09_10.shtml#1126138099

To his credit, Baldwin apparently recanted in 1939 (though, as I said, that was mighty late), and turned into a severe critic of the Soviet regime. And of course even in the 1930s, many in the ACLU were anti-Communist, and today's ACLU ought not be judged because of the failings of an ACLU leader in the 1930s.

http://volokh.com/archives/archive_2005_09_04-2005_09_10.shtml#1126047007

It turns out (I didn't know this until last year) that in 1940, the ACLU formally barred Communists from leadership or staff positions, and either then or later took the position that it didn't even want them as members.

In the 1930s, there were indeed some Communists, and more Communist sympathizers, in important positions at the ACLU. As one might expect, the Communists tried to bend the ACLU to the party line, for instance by making the ACLU soften its criticism of Communist attempts to violently suppress speech in the U.S.

The ACLU's founding director and likely most influential official, Roger Baldwin, had long been an admitted supporter of communism as an economic system, and on balance an apologist for the Soviet Union. Though he criticized the Soviets at times, he had also praised the USSR as on balance a haven for liberty. His true break with the Soviets (which ultimately brought him around to pretty vociferous anti-Communism) came not with Stalin's ascent, not with the Ukrainian famine, not with the Terror and the show trials — he defended the Soviets even after that — but only in 1939, with the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact.

The ACLU majority of 1940 deserves praise, not condemnation, for recognizing this threat.

http://volokh.com/archives/archive_2005_09_11-2005_09_17.shtml#1126720462

To begin with, Baldwin had always denied being a member of the Communist Party, and I've seen no evidence to the contrary. He apparently didn't get along well with the Party, which he rightly saw as authoritarian

.Baldwin also often defended the Soviet Union; he definitely did criticize its repression of dissent and civil liberties

As to the essay, another commentators of Volokh says:

I note in this essay that Baldwin is not arguing to civil libertarians that they should support communism, he is arguing to communists that they should support civil liberties. In my previous comment, I quoted a source describing Baldwin's decision during this time to take the ACLU into the leftist "Popular Front" against fascism because he was "ever a coalition builder." In that context, it's at least possible some of his use of the terminology of dialectical materialism is meant as a means of persuasion rather than a statement of belief. Parts of the full text support this interpretation. Baldwin never actually claimed to be a communist and wrote a couple sentences like this one: "If we were Communists, they say, our position would be defensible." If Baldwin were a communist, why wouldn't he just call himself one in his attempt to gain support from communists instead of beginning a sentence with "If we were Communists...?"

In addition, some of Baldwin's statements of his own beliefs in the essay are not exactly communist. For example, Baldwin did not profess a belief in the necessity of violent revolution, writing "I believe in non-violent methods of struggle as most effective in the long run for building up successful working class power." This statement contradicts communist doctrine that "the violent overthrow of the bourgeoisie lays the foundation for the sway of the proletariat."

Baldwin never joined the Communist Party, never called himself a communist, even referred to himself as not being a communist, and held beliefs at odds with communist doctrine.


People criticized Baldwin for being pro-communist. Baldwin denounced the communists (belatedly, but denounced nonetheless), and the ACLU then worked to purge communists from its ranks.

The critics then argue that it was all tactical? In essence, the critics argue that the ACLU is supporting communism by denouncing the ideology and purging itself of communist members. What a fiendishly clever plot

Baldwin/other ACLU founders once appear to have supported Communism. They later denounced it. ... Whatever we conjecture about what they wanted, they continued to lead an ACLU that in neither word nor deed advanced Communist goals; it advocated, and continues to advocate, for civil liberties in ways that (shockingly) not everyone agrees with, which some, including some in this thread, are happy to conflate with Communism. In other words, "whether the individual members of the ACLU are more comfortable with communists than is wise," assuming you're talking about such members in 2005, is not a question rationally posed by discussing what was on Roger Baldwin's mind in 1939. It's simply an irrelevant smear.

So if you want to argue that the ACLU's current activities demonstrate sympathy with Communism, by all means do so. Please be specific. But unless there's a "Roger Baldwin Was A Wonderful Guy In Every Way" society running around that I haven't noticed, the historical argument doesn't really amount to much.


EDIT: Greenlander, you know fulll well that there are hundreds of cases in which the ACLU has defended conservatives, conservative causes, Republicans, Republican causes, Christians, and Christian causes. I've listed dozens of them for you before. Don't make me have to do it again.

Your little semi-fictional history of 1920-1940 is curious at best. It proves little about the ACLU at that time. It proves nothing about the modern ACLU.

22. Continue discrediting American culture by degrading all forms of artistic expression. An American Communist cell was told to "eliminate all good sculpture from parks and buildings, substitute shapeless, awkward and meaningless forms."
23. Control art critics and directors of art museums. "Our plan is to promote ugliness, repulsive, meaningless art."


But, like....

that just looks like a way to rob everyone of joy. I can't think of any other reason to do that. Are you just saying communists were here to make everyone unhappy?

The liberals have been in retreat ever since George Bush came to office. They just cannot compete against a truly great man like President George W. Bush.

The liberals have been in retreat ever since George Bush came to office. They just cannot compete against a truly great man like President George W. Bush.

:D :D :D

So if you want to argue that the ACLU's current activities demonstrate sympathy with Communism, by all means do so. Please be specific. But unless there's a "Roger Baldwin Was A Wonderful Guy In Every Way" society running around that I haven't noticed, the historical argument doesn't really amount to much.


ACLU Challenges Government No-Fly List :
“The ACLU filed a nationwide class-action challenge to the government's "No-Fly" list. Many innocent travelers who pose no safety risk whatsoever are discovering that their government considers them terrorists.”

Instead of dealing with a minor hassle, the ACLU wants to open up the airlines to Al Qaeda, the results of which will be absolutely disastrous if they were to succeed. It would only be a matter of time before commercial aircraft are blown up or are used as guided missiles by terrorists, again.

Then we have this debacle:
The American Civil Liberties Union joined forces with 12 national non-profit organizations in challenging the Office of Personnel Management's Combined Federal Campaign (CFC) requirement that all participating charities check their employees and expenditures against several government watch lists for "terrorist activities."

This indicated that ACLU wants the government's CFC campaign to donate directly to terrorists groups out to destroy us everywhere and anywhere that they can. And some of these groups have already been caught doing just that and the ACLU wants to keep the money flowing into the hands of the likes of Osama and his kind.

The ACLU and CAIR (Council on American-Islamic Relations) which supports terrorism are full partners! A quick search of the internet reveals this unholy alliance.

Not long ago Al Qaeda made it clear that it would use the southern border with Mexico to infiltrate America, the ACLU's response was ludicrous. The undying champions of privacy threatened to have the Minutemen spied on and sued if they did anything the ACLU did not like.

Grey Deacon, a spokesman of the Minuteman Project, told the "Worldnet RadioActive" show in an exclusive interview on April 14 that representatives from the American Civil Liberties Union are now criminally involved in helping illegal entrants cross the US border and avoid detection. He alleges that the ACLU activists wait for the aliens smoking pot until they spot aliens and then they begin to make noise and flash their lights to alert potential illegals to move on to a non-patrolled area of the border.

Additionally, the ACLU has no sympathy for our soldiers but they whine, bitch and carry on about how terrorists are abused by our troops while we hear nothing from them when the terrorists try to recruit members in American mosques.

All of this, in the framework of knowing that the ACLU was founded with the intent of the anticipated destruction of the USA, leads to the unavoidable conclusion that the ACLU is one of the greatest allies a terrorist could ask for. They want our borders open, our laws changed to prevent surveillance of terrorists, they want terrorists to board U.S. commercial jets.

It’s time for us to put a end to the treasonous activities of the ACLU. It is time to demand that they be loyal to the United States of America or get the hell out.


EDIT: Greenlander, you know fulll well that there are hundreds of cases in which the ACLU has defended conservatives, conservative causes, Republicans, Republican causes, Christians, and Christian causes. I've listed dozens of them for you before. Don't make me have to do it again.


You want to use the fact that once in awhile they defend something that goes against their cuases essence as a proof of innocence? Lets see what Baldwin had to say about that himself:

I champion civil liberty as the best of the non-violent means of building the power on which workers rule must be based. If I aid the reactionaries to get free speech now and then, if I go outside the class struggle to fight against censorship, it is only because those liberties help to create a more hospitable atmosphere for working class liberties. The class struggle is the central conflict of the world; all others are incidental.

I think that says it all. The ACLU will do whatever is needed, even help it's enemy to get what it wants...