NationStates Jolt Archive

One too many times have I found that a band that I liked consistently had lyrics with religious undertones and/or turned out to be religious to the point of tackiness. Afterward, I would always feel upset, betrayed, and just a tad dirty.

I'm certainly not prejudice against bands that are Christian. If I tried to stay away from art that was made by religious people, I wouldn't be very cultured, now would I? But the difference lies in the content. So while (for example) Moby might be Christian, his music doesn't incorporate that and so the two are mutually exclusive. Conversely, ICP (the impetus for this thread) is not only Christian, but allows that facet of their lives to contort their music.

I guess what I'm basically driving at is, anyone care to name some bands that I should just not get too attached to? :p

Stick with metal and you'll be fine.

For example, Slayer, with such songs as:

Raining Blood, South of Heaven, God Hates Us All

Can't go wrong with that! :P

The way I see it, you can view Christian music more as mythological music than as a worldview. Just as a Christian wouldn't object to the music from the lion king, its possible to view Christian media as part of a fictional world. I personally am an Atheist that finds the Christian mythological world rather interesting, especially as portrayed in Dante's Inferno. I just view it as a work of fiction.

Ya, but I mean, horrorcore would seem pretty non Christian too, wouldn't it? There's Christian metal just like there's Christian techno. The best way to indoctrinate people is through music.

I guess one of the problems for me is that I have such a wide (and admittedly uncultured) taste in music that it's hard to restrict myself to just one category of music in the first place.

One too many times have I found that a band that I liked consistently had lyrics with religious undertones and/or turned out to be religious to the point of tackiness. Afterward, I would always feel upset, betrayed, and just a tad dirty.

I'm certainly not prejudice against bands that are Christian. If I tried to stay away from art that was made by religious people, I wouldn't be very cultured, now would I? But the difference lies in the content. So while (for example) Moby might be Christian, his music doesn't incorporate that and so the two are mutually exclusive. Conversely, ICP (the impetus for this thread) is not only Christian, but allows that facet of their lives to contort their music.

I guess what I'm basically driving at is, anyone care to name some bands that I should just not get too attached to? :p

Well, I guess that kind of makes up for all the times I, as a Christian, have turned on the radio and tuned it to a song that has a good sound to it, only to realize seconds later that the lyrics are sexually explicit, blasphemous or otherwise decidely un-Christian.

It sounds like you're upset that Christians have the nerve to write songs about Christianity. Guess what? Musicians can write songs about anything they want. If you don't like it all you have to do is turn the radio off.

The way I see it, you can view Christian music more as mythological music than as a worldview. Just as a Christian wouldn't object to the music from the lion king, its possible to view Christian media as part of a fictional world. I personally am an Atheist that finds the Christian mythological world rather interesting, especially as portrayed in Dante's Inferno. I just view it as a work of fiction.

Of course. But you can't compare Dante's Inferno to some 'Jesus is great' song. Moreover, there's no pretense about whether or not Dante's work has a religious subtext. With music, it's far more sublimated, in order to monopolize fan base, making it all the more unsavory for me.

The way I see it, you can view Christian music more as mythological music than as a worldview. Just as a Christian wouldn't object to the music from the lion king, its possible to view Christian media as part of a fictional world. I personally am an Atheist that finds the Christian mythological world rather interesting, especially as portrayed in Dante's Inferno. I just view it as a work of fiction.
I always enjoyed studying mythology and religion. Christianity is neither, it is a Faith. Darwinism on the other hand does fit into the fiction. Most Christian bands will list the fact they are Christian in nature on the label or watch for the producing company.

It sounds like you're upset that Christians have the nerve to write songs about Christianity.

No, it's just that I don't like it when people write about something under the pretext of something else. I don't mind gospel, in fact, I like a fair bit of gospel. But I listen to it already aware of the fact that it is religious in nature.

What upsets me is when I'm jamming to some music and then -- BAM! I realize it's some trendy crap about Jesus. That just stings.

for all you mtvers, Relient K is considered Christian. They have a lot of songs that aren't religious (Mood Rings, Sadie Hawkins Dance, College Kids, In Love w/ the 80's, etc.) but other songs are. a good band that retired last year was Five Iron Frenzy. same thing, and these guys were ska punk. they also had some political/social themed songs, such as American Kryptonite and Farewell to Arms.

No, it's just that I don't like it when people write about something under the pretext of something else.

Bands often use their music to express their opinions, and sometimes its in a very subtle way that may not be apparent to everyone. What's wrong with Christian bands expressing Christian ideas through song?

What's wrong with Christian bands expressing Christian ideas through song?

Nothing's wrong with it, per se, I just don't like it. Simple as that.

No, it's just that I don't like it when people write about something under the pretext of something else. I don't mind gospel, in fact, I like a fair bit of gospel. But I listen to it already aware of the fact that it is religious in nature.

What upsets me is when I'm jamming to some music and then -- BAM! I realize it's some trendy crap about Jesus. That just stings.

I kind of agree with that, but for different reasons. I am what you might call a "fundamentalist" Christian (ie. I oppose abortion-on-demand, gay marriage, and compulsory Darwinian education) and it makes me sad to see that these groups are taking their cues from secular, often strongly anti-Christian groups, mixing their lyrics around, and sitting on the fence just to get a larger audience.

Music is music man. You shouldn't stay away from music because of the lyrics. One of my favorite songs is very militant and talks about killing people and violent overthrow of society. All stuff I dislike. I hate militantism, I think violence is the language of the weak, and feel although society has been corrupted that violence won't create a better society.

And, I've listened to pagan and satanic music before, but the lyrics don't offend me. It's good music man. Lyrics don't have to mean something to you. Not always.

Although I'll give you its nice to listen to music where you really feel the lyrics. But hell, its nice to listen to music at all!

One too many times have I found that a band that I liked consistently had lyrics with religious undertones and/or turned out to be religious to the point of tackiness. Afterward, I would always feel upset, betrayed, and just a tad dirty.

I'm certainly not prejudice against bands that are Christian. If I tried to stay away from art that was made by religious people, I wouldn't be very cultured, now would I? But the difference lies in the content. So while (for example) Moby might be Christian, his music doesn't incorporate that and so the two are mutually exclusive. Conversely, ICP (the impetus for this thread) is not only Christian, but allows that facet of their lives to contort their music.

I guess what I'm basically driving at is, anyone care to name some bands that I should just not get too attached to? :p

I feel your pain. Nothing is worse than thinking you've come across good music, only to hear something about how "He loves you". It makes me hate musi at times. I don't have a problem with christian bands playing their music, but I hate it when I end up listening to it, because I dissagree with their message and don't want to hear the crap they spew.

I can tell you to avoid a band called *roots around in his garbage can* Interstate. I received some from a "friend", and am still quite annoyed.

If its any particular help, a band you may find more agreeable is Bad Religion.

Stick with metal and you'll be fine.
My good friend's in a metal band that sings about Christianity.

You lose.

Although I'll give you its nice to listen to music where you really feel the lyrics. But hell, its nice to listen to music at all!

I know; please don't think I don't appreciate or enjoy music. Nor am I bigoted or opposed to religious music. It's just a bit unnerving when I find that music I like has a religious subtext...
Just like it was unnerving when I found out that Turning Japanese wasn't just a fun little song with no context. :(

I feel your pain.

There's nothing more amusing than empathy for prejudice. :D
By the way, I'm coming back to Æ. I just needed some scene change and maybe a blowjob.

I know; please don't think I don't appreciate or enjoy music. Nor am I bigoted or opposed to religious music. It's just a bit unnerving when I find that music I like has a religious subtext...
Just like it was unnerving when I found out that Turning Japanese wasn't just a fun little song with no context. :(
First of all, what's the subtext in Turning Japanese? Because I'm pretty sure I knew what it was, but now I'm confused, hearing this on a Christian lyrics based rant-like thread....and...... :headbang: that's me. Right now.

Secondly, I'm not sure what musical scene you're into, but Alkaline Trio is decidedly NOT Christian and, though they are a little more radio-oriented (something I'm pretty opposed to, personally), their albums are usually a well-collected little gem with a few radio-friendly, somewhat more corporate songs thrown in. I, as a Catholic music lover, really REALLY hate listening to Christian music more than anything. Music is my release, my absolute catharsis; that's why I'm a musician. Though I'm sure many would argue that God gave me that talent, I could just as easily argue that I friggin worked for it, 'cos I did. Ergo, when it's music time for me, it's definitely not God time as well.

Unless I'm at youth group. I try to play as much Christian Rock as I can for those kids, because that's less time I have to spend trying to get them to settle down and pay attention to me :rolleyes:

Simonist']First of all, what's the subtext in Turning Japanese? Because I'm pretty sure I knew what it was, but now I'm confused, hearing this on a Christian lyrics based rant-like thread....and...... :headbang: that's me. Right now.



Same subtext as Cyndi Lauper's "She Bop" although she denies it to this day.

Basically, it's all about bopping the bishop.

No, it's just that I don't like it when people write about something under the pretext of something else. I don't mind gospel, in fact, I like a fair bit of gospel. But I listen to it already aware of the fact that it is religious in nature.

What upsets me is when I'm jamming to some music and then -- BAM! I realize it's some trendy crap about Jesus. That just stings.

Think about us christians...we can be jamming along to a song and then --BAM! there's the swearing, sexual undertones, talk about killing, etc. It's just as bad for us. And you shouldn't complain about it. For instance, Relient K is an awesome christian band, but they don't always sing about God, and even if they do, sometimes you can't tell, or it just sounds like a normal song.

Same subtext as Cyndi Lauper's "She Bop" although she denies it to this day.

Basically, it's all about bopping the bishop.
Oh, that's what I thought, but with you talking about Christian subtext beforehand I really got.......turned around........

Think about us christians...we can be jamming along to a song and then --BAM! there's the swearing, sexual undertones, talk about killing, etc. It's just as bad for us. And you shouldn't complain about it. For instance, Relient K is an awesome christian band, but they don't always sing about God, and even if they do, sometimes you can't tell, or it just sounds like a normal song.

Oh do get over yourself. Seriously, most artists make it pretty damn obvious what they're about. All we're asking is that you do the same in return.

Oh do get over yourself. Seriously, most artists make it pretty damn obvious what they're about. All we're asking is that you do the same in return.
Agreed. Like I said, I'm a Christian, but it's a definite choice to the music you listen to. If you don't want to be assailed with "un-Christian" imagery in your music, like somebody said beforehand -- turn off the radio. Or invest in CDs of bands that you don't find objectionable.

Hey, let's quit putting Christians in boxes.....we don't all listen to that God crap, y'know.

I'm not a big fan of Christian music, but if it's really well done then it's not going to make me hate the band. Zao are good even if they're a Christian band.

Some bands take it too far though, saying Jesus or God ever two lines, that's annoying. And Christian metal = Nazi reggae.

When I listen to music I ask, "Is this art, or is this propaganda?"
Even propaganda can be beautiful, but one needs to recognize it as such.
Don't trusts artists with philosophy, and don't trust philosophers with art.

anyone heard Prince's Rainbow Children? the music is brilliant, but it's saturated with Jehova's Witnesses propaganda. as if i don't get enough of that on my own front porch.

Oh do get over yourself. Seriously, most artists make it pretty damn obvious what they're about. All we're asking is that you do the same in return.

People have a tendency to be very complex. Most people aren't about any one thing, they are multifaceted individuals with many interests. If the message behind the music you are listening to can always be summed up in one phrase, then chances are you are listening to crap or you would benefit from broadening your musical horizons (or both).

I could write a hundred different songs and all of them would be about different things. Perhaps one was written when I was down and its a sadder song, another one could be about love, another one might be about God, another one might be about loss, another one might be about joy, another one might be about anxiety, another one may be inspired by a book I read or by something on the news or a movie, dont we all go through so many emotions? If I wrote those 100 songs and then got together with my band to choose the 11-16 that would go in our CD, it is possible that one or none of the songs chosen deal with my religious convictions. The dishonest thing to do would be to cut out all non-religious songs and choose only the 11 Christian songs out of the 100 songs I wrote. The honest thing is to choose the songs regardless of whether they are Christian or not. What you are asking for is not for more honesty, but for dishonesty.

Stick with metal and you'll be fine.

For example, Slayer, with such songs as:

Raining Blood, South of Heaven, God Hates Us All

Can't go wrong with that! :P

Unfortunately, that's not the slightest bit true. Look up As I Lay Dying and Zao for example. Christian bands, but still thrash and headbang to the max. I don't mind music with religious undertones, I listen to the previous bands mentioned but I also listen to Slayer and Sabbat, and I'm neither Satanist or Christian.

I guess what I'm basically driving at is, anyone care to name some bands that I should just not get too attached to? :p
I don't know about bands you should avoid, but if you're into eighties music you should definitely check out "The Christians" :)

I must admit that although I have an extremely wide taste in music I have not yet come across a single band that overtly tried to convert me in some way. In the end it is all down to the music, isn't it? As I said, I don't know a single band making good music that mainly tries to preach, i.e. tries to put the message before the music (ok, I don't actually listen to rap).

I just think you are over sensitive. If I was offended everytime I listened to a song that doesn't conform to my view of what lyrics should be I wouldn't be able to listen to much music at all, because frankly, most lyrics are a load of tosh.

[QUOTE=LazyHippies]Snip[QUOTE]

I don't really think it's necessary for me to broaden my musical horizons just because I listen to music people have actually heard of. And to suggest that any artist's music can be described by one adjective is ridiculous, no matter how superficial you may think they are. I recognise that many artists write songs about God, but there is a difference between one song in a hundred, or even ten, and a band that is totally religion driven, but who attempts to hide this in a blatant attempt to increase record sales.

I am not trying to suggest that we pigeonhole any artist who happens to write a song about God or religion as Christian, but that bands whose purpose is to praise God make their intentions and reasons for making music transparent.

One too many times have I found that a band that I liked consistently had lyrics with religious undertones and/or turned out to be religious to the point of tackiness. Afterward, I would always feel upset, betrayed, and just a tad dirty.

I'm certainly not prejudice against bands that are Christian. If I tried to stay away from art that was made by religious people, I wouldn't be very cultured, now would I? But the difference lies in the content. So while (for example) Moby might be Christian, his music doesn't incorporate that and so the two are mutually exclusive. Conversely, ICP (the impetus for this thread) is not only Christian, but allows that facet of their lives to contort their music.

I guess what I'm basically driving at is, anyone care to name some bands that I should just not get too attached to? :pIf I'd listen to bands for their lyrics, I'd never have listened to Rammstein. Actually, I couldn't care less about the content of songs unless they're obviously racist or extreme in a similar direction (more than Rammstein or L'Ame Immortelle...;)).
CMTV is actually one of the few televangelist channels I could watch without gagging...
:p

One too many times have I found that a band that I liked consistently had lyrics with religious undertones and/or turned out to be religious to the point of tackiness. Afterward, I would always feel upset, betrayed, and just a tad dirty.

I'm certainly not prejudice against bands that are Christian. If I tried to stay away from art that was made by religious people, I wouldn't be very cultured, now would I? But the difference lies in the content. So while (for example) Moby might be Christian, his music doesn't incorporate that and so the two are mutually exclusive. Conversely, ICP (the impetus for this thread) is not only Christian, but allows that facet of their lives to contort their music.

I guess what I'm basically driving at is, anyone care to name some bands that I should just not get too attached to? :p

Maybe they write about God cause He's the most important thing in their life... they write their music for themselves and God... you don't have to listen

I guess what I'm basically driving at is, anyone care to name some bands that I should just not get too attached to? :p
I don't have a problem with Christian lyrics. U2 is one of my favourite bands.

I am not trying to suggest that we pigeonhole any artist who happens to write a song about God or religion as Christian, but that bands whose purpose is to praise God make their intentions and reasons for making music transparent.

Yet, the difference between the band of Christians who write songs about many things, including praising God and the band of Christians whose purpose is to praise God and hide it by writing about other things too is only in your head. If you were to take an album made by a band like the former and compare it to an album made by a band like the latter, the difference between the two would be indistinguishable since both would feature a mix of secular and Christian songs. The difference is not measureable and would require mind reading in order to discover.

So, you really are pigeonholing any artist who is a Christian and chooses to write songs reflecting such because there is no way you can tell what his intentions are. Which raises another question, if the end product is the same, why would it matter to you what the intentions behind it were?

Unfortunately, that's not the slightest bit true. Look up As I Lay Dying and Zao for example. Christian bands, but still thrash and headbang to the max. I don't mind music with religious undertones, I listen to the previous bands mentioned but I also listen to Slayer and Sabbat, and I'm neither Satanist or Christian.

As I Lay Dying and Zao are both metalcore. ;)

^As I lay Dying isn´t metalcore.It´s (watered down) gothenburgesque crossover.I dunno Zao,never got around to listening to em...

Anyways,Metalcore would be stuff like Coalesce or The Accused.

I´d also like to point out that there´re good christian metal bands such as Helloween or Iron Maiden out there.You don´t HAVE to listen to pseudo-metallic crap like Demon Hunter if you like heavy music...

Yet, the difference between the band of Christians who write songs about many things, including praising God and the band of Christians whose purpose is to praise God and hide it by writing about other things too is only in your head. If you were to take an album made by a band like the former and compare it to an album made by a band like the latter, the difference between the two would be indistinguishable since both would feature a mix of secular and Christian songs. The difference is not measureable and would require mind reading in order to discover.

So, you really are pigeonholing any artist who is a Christian and chooses to write songs reflecting such because there is no way you can tell what his intentions are. Which raises another question, if the end product is the same, why would it matter to you what the intentions behind it were?

Ok, well, having once had a couple of friends who were members of a Christian fundamentalist church, and having listened to their music, I have found that there is a huge difference between Christian bands and bands whose members are Christian. In my experience, the former are bands who tend to play music exclusively about the topic of Christianity, and who often release the mildest songs, which when listened to in context are in fact Christian, whereas the latter have a mix of secular and Christian music. I actually enjoy a lot of music by artists who openly admit to their music being driven by a desire to praise God, I just don't like being tricked into listening to it.

Although from the viewpoint of an amateur literary theorist, the richness of their manipulation of language is brilliant. :D

^As I lay Dying isn´t metalcore.It´s (watered down) gothenburgesque crossover.I dunno Zao,never got around to listening to em...

Anyways,Metalcore would be stuff like Coalesce or The Accused.

I´d also like to point out that there´re good christian metal bands such as Helloween or Iron Maiden out there.You don´t HAVE to listen to pseudo-metallic crap like Demon Hunter if you like heavy music...

I limit my classifications of genres by 11 letters, because words like gothenburgesque and neosataniaclassical give me the shits. As do the people who use phrases like gothenburgesque crossover. It's loud, it's heavy and it ain't pure metal, so what am I gonna call it? Elitest picky bastard. And if the word neo-gothic comes up in conversation, I'm going to shit in your mailbox.

Ok, well, having once had a couple of friends who were members of a Christian fundamentalist church, and having listened to their music, I have found that there is a huge difference between Christian bands and bands whose members are Christian. In my experience, the former are bands who tend to play music exclusively about the topic of Christianity, and who often release the mildest songs, which when listened to in context are in fact Christian, whereas the latter have a mix of secular and Christian music. I actually enjoy a lot of music by artists who openly admit to their music being driven by a desire to praise God, I just don't like being tricked into listening to it.

Although from the viewpoint of an amateur literary theorist, the richness of their manipulation of language is brilliant. :D

Ok, I understand now. So, the problem you have is with the marketing. I have never heard of a band doing what you claim (writing a song that doesnt sound Christian but is in order to trick people).

What actually happens alot is that the band will put together a CD and the marketing department will take over. They will choose which songs to release as singles and, obviously, they choose the most radio friendly songs. For secular markets, they will obviously choose the least obviously Christian song. Of course there are exceptions like Mercyme whose most obviously Christian song ("I can only imagine") was good enough to receive regular radio airlpay on secular stations. But generally, the rule is that the radio station will play only the songs that their listeners are most likely to enjoy. A Christian station will most likely play a spiritual song over a non-spiritual song, an easy listening station is more likely to play the ballad than the rock song, the heavy rock station is more likely to play the heavier song that isnt so obviously Christian, etc.

Really, what you have a big problem with, when analyzed correctly isnt the bands, its the marketing department and the radio stations.

I suppose you're right. I just don't think about that stuff (marketing) when it comes to music.

I guess I'm fortunate enough to like music seen as "diabolical" by evangelical (and I mean that in the true sense of the word, signifying obnoxious proselytising) Christians that I don't have to think about them polluting it with their attempts to "save" people.

On the other hand, I listen to ethnic music a lot and as it tends to be primitive, it often has casual references to religion, but that's just a part of the charm in partaking in a different, often less advanced culture.

I limit my classifications of genres by 11 letters, because words like gothenburgesque and neosataniaclassical give me the shits. As do the people who use phrases like gothenburgesque crossover. It's loud, it's heavy and it ain't pure metal, so what am I gonna call it? Elitest picky bastard. And if the word neo-gothic comes up in conversation, I'm going to shit in your mailbox.

It isn´t even close to metal,at that,so don´t go all emo on me and start throwing feces in my direction,k?
As for the elitist comment: I honestly wish more people were.Maybe then we wouldn´t have watered down shit like As I Lay Dying or commercial atrocities such as Britney Spears all over the radio. Give me MC Hammer over 50 Cent,Iron Maiden over As I Lay Dying and Billy Idol over Brittney Spears,then I might actually switch on the radio.

Besides,I was trying to be polite.Instead of "gothenburgesque" I could have just called it "In Flames-influenced bullshit".But precision´s a bitch,ain´t it?
As for heavy: Shut the fuck up about heavy,you "illiterate fool,you"(just to further the totally wrong opinion you have about me and actual elitists in general :rolleyes: ).Ah well,I think I´ve been insulting enough without calling you "whimp","poser","pussy" and all the other stuff I´m actually thinking here,so I´ll leave it and simply give you something actually heavy to listen to.

So,you want heavy?

THIS is heavy : http://www.anentity.com/demilich/

Meh. Overly Christian lyrics tend to annoy me. As does a lot of black metal. As religion isn't an issue for me, I don't particularly want it in the music I listen to - in small amounts, it's tolerable, though.

Example:
In November 2002, ten years after the first Joker's Card was released, in the final track of The Wraith: Shangri-La, ICP revealed their big secret — that nearly all the songs they wrote were masked with subliminal messages that have been pointing to one thing: "Truth is, we follow God, we've always been behind Him..."
And um, just as a disclaimer, I already said that I have a wide tolerance for music, so I don't want any flack for giving ICP a shot.

I just think you are over sensitive. If I was offended everytime I listened to a song that doesn't conform to my view of what lyrics should be I wouldn't be able to listen to much music at all, because frankly, most lyrics are a load of tosh.

No, I'm just irked when I'm under the impression that something is one way and then it turns out to be another.

Some artists are able to successfully incorporate the sincerity and complexity of religious belief into their songs.

Sufjan Stevens, for example, has strong religious undertones in most of his work, but it never comes off as tacky or preachy.

Same subtext as Cyndi Lauper's "She Bop" although she denies it to this day.

Basically, it's all about bopping the bishop.

A friend told me it was about masturbating or something. I dunno, I guess it's just jolts me a bit when things like that come to light. I mean, "99 Red Balloons" might have been a protest song to nuclear weapons or whatever, but that's not the same as finding out that "Turning Japanese" is about masturbating.
In all fairness though, I need to take responsibility for not listening to the lyrics well enough. "I need a doctor, to take a picture, so I can look at you from inside as well..." I still love that song.

Anyways. That's all I have to say.

Ive said it before, and I says it again:

Jesus.

Dont.

Rock.

anyway, what i dont get is how any religion, its just mostly christians here in the U.S., think that they should be able to run everything and then get upset when they cant. Just because you do not have a religion does not mean that you are an aethist. That is a CHRISTIAN term bc they "dont approve."

what i figure is that you can be what you want to be...words are just that....simply titles to try to explain the purpose of the item in question....by determining life...you create death, so dont decide what is right in fear that you may create what is wrong....

supposedly in the first amendement of the U. S. Bill of Rights and the 18th article of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights we are given the right to have any religion, or lack of one, and the right to assemble and show our belief....well thats means that you cant really bash christians for their music...the have the right....but in the same aspect...how can we really jail the muslims who are involved in jihad (religious wars)? They were given the right to show their religion and that is how they do it...

but wait...it also states in both documents that one human cannot trespass on another's right...meaning that they should be jaiked and unliked music should not be made...right? well, not matter how you look at the rules some of you will disagree...thats part of life....enjoy your right to disagree...sometimes its the only reason you are still concious.......


Article 18.
Everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion; this right includes freedom to change his religion or belief, and freedom, either alone or in community with others and in public or private, to manifest his religion or belief in teaching, practice, worship and observance.



Amendment I
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.


so as far as im concerned...go read ur "holy scripture"...if you read it right and then think abt it...you may realize some things you didnt want to know

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Enamored Valor

speaking as someone who enjoys christian music, i fully admit that there are a lot of lousy christian bands. the problem is, that since there are a lot of lousy christian bands, the good ones get blacklisted as "christain bands" and people automatically stereotype them as overrated preachers. not so the case. for example..

andy hunter (http://www.andyhunter.com/)
one of the best electronica djs out there, secular or christian

sanctus real (http://www.sanctusreal.com/main.asp)
melodic rock, they need a little maturing, but so did a lot of secular bands when they released a sophmore project. you can listen to the whole thing on thier website, not just clips.

DJ Maj (http://www.djmaj.com/)
brilliant hip-hop mixtaper. i haven't listened to his 4th cd yet, but if it's anything like his 3rd, it's great, he does mention god a lot, but it's not in a over-the-top "you need christ now, sinner!" way that i have seen other artists do.

John Reuben (http://www.johnreuben.com/)
Christian white Rapper, one thing i would like to point out is that his lyrics are actually intelligent, not just catchy. (ie, "i'm eminem and i'm tough and i kill people and i have a really rough life, expecially becoming a multi-millionare")

Chris Rice (http://www.chrisrice.com/)
folk acoustic guitar, nice melodies

Ludwig Von Beetoven (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B000001VVY/qid=1127622370/sr=8-1/ref=pd_bbs_1/002-8649542-9355210?v=glance&s=music&n=507846)
ok, this is supposed to be a joke but he was a good composer who was christian, if you're in to classical music.

The Afformentioned Relient K (http://www.relientk.com/)

Skillet (http://www.skillet.com/)
hard rock, not perfect, but good.

and furthermore, i don't just listen to chrustian music because i'm a bible belt white boy and that's what i'm "supposed to do". a lot of it does sound really good. and also, i don't like filling my mind with the syncopated equivalent of litter. i have no problem with secular music as long as it sounds good and it's not lyrically trash. and regrettably a lot of it is, but there are intelligent secular bands out there, many of which i respect a lot artistically.

supposedly in the first amendement of the U. S. Bill of Rights and the 18th article of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights we are given the right to have any religion, or lack of one, and the right to assemble and show our belief....well thats means that you cant really bash christians for their music...the have the right....but in the same aspect...how can we really jail the muslims who are involved in jihad (religious wars)? They were given the right to show their religion and that is how they do it...

Enamored Valor

The reason we can jail these jihadists, assuming you are reffering to the current al-queda regime, is because is because thier main goal is to floomin wipe us off the face of the planet, because we aren't muslim extremists like them. not only does that offend the afformentioned article 18, if you refer to article 3 of the universal declaration of human rights,

Article 3.

Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of person.

speaking as someone who enjoys christian music, i fully admit that there are a lot of lousy christian bands. the problem is, that since there are a lot of lousy christian bands, the good ones get blacklisted as "christain bands" and people automatically stereotype them as overrated preachers. not so the case. for example..

andy hunter (http://www.andyhunter.com/)
one of the best electronica djs out there, secular or christian

sanctus real (http://www.sanctusreal.com/main.asp)
melodic rock, they need a little maturing, but so did a lot of secular bands when they released a sophmore project. you can listen to the whole thing on thier website, not just clips.

DJ Maj (http://www.djmaj.com/)
brilliant hip-hop mixtaper. i haven't listened to his 4th cd yet, but if it's anything like his 3rd, it's great, he does mention god a lot, but it's not in a over-the-top "you need christ now, sinner!" way that i have seen other artists do.

John Reuben (http://www.johnreuben.com/)
Christian white Rapper, one thing i would like to point out is that his lyrics are actually intelligent, not just catchy. (ie, "i'm eminem and i'm tough and i kill people and i have a really rough life, expecially becoming a multi-millionare")

Chris Rice (http://www.chrisrice.com/)
folk acoustic guitar, nice melodies

Ludwig Von Beetoven (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B000001VVY/qid=1127622370/sr=8-1/ref=pd_bbs_1/002-8649542-9355210?v=glance&s=music&n=507846)
ok, this is supposed to be a joke but he was a good composer who was christian, if you're in to classical music.

The Afformentioned Relient K (http://www.relientk.com/)

Skillet (http://www.skillet.com/)
hard rock, not perfect, but good.

and furthermore, i don't just listen to chrustian music because i'm a bible belt white boy and that's what i'm "supposed to do". a lot of it does sound really good. and also, i don't like filling my mind with the syncopated equivalent of litter. i have no problem with secular music as long as it sounds good and it's not lyrically trash. and regrettably a lot of it is, but there are intelligent secular bands out there, many of which i respect a lot artistically.

He is Legend, Demon Hunter, Pillar, POD....The list goes on and on...There are really a lot of good christian out there.

Lyrics are the last thing I pay attention to when listening to music. IMO most christian pop music of today is about the message (the lyrics) and not the music. Therefore most of it seems to be copies of earlier music that was adapted to christian lyrics. Of course there are exceptions (Phil Keggy comes to mind).

, i don't like filling my mind with the syncopated equivalent of litter. i have no problem with secular music as long as it sounds good and it's not lyrically trash. and regrettably a lot of it is, but there are intelligent secular bands out there, many of which i respect a lot artistically.

look, just because you like a certain kind of music doesnt mean you can demote the rest as trash...you cant decide what should and shouldnt be listened to and that is somehting that always strikes me about christians...for supposed do-gooders...you speak badly of many things...if you did not create it and do not participate in it then you have no room to talk :rolleyes:

enamored valor

The reason we can jail these jihadists, assuming you are reffering to the current al-queda regime, is because is because thier main goal is to floomin wipe us off the face of the planet, because we aren't muslim extremists like them. not only does that offend the afformentioned article 18, if you refer to article 3 of the universal declaration of human rights,

Article 3.

Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of person.

ok yes...and i believe i did state that...i just did not get specific abt it...maybe you should read the entire thing...

AND you ahve to remember there are extremist in every religion...and jihad is not only for the al quaeda...that is not the goal of jihad...and you need to know what you are talking about before you post....it makes you sound smart :D goodness knows it might help you

enamored valor

ok yes...and i believe i did state that...i just did not get specific abt it...maybe you should read the entire thing...

AND you ahve to remember there are extremist in every religion...and jihad is not only for the al quaeda...that is not the goal of jihad...and you need to know what you are talking about before you post....it makes you sound smart :D goodness knows it might help you

enamored valor


Ending every post with your name, is pretentious.

We know who you are. Its available for all to read.

Christian metal? Now I've heard of everything.

Just stick with *REAL* metal.

what do you care???
if you dont like it dont look at it...

i didnt ask you to

so get over it

:rolleyes: people these days

enamored valor

look, just because you like a certain kind of music doesnt mean you can demote the rest as trash...you cant decide what should and shouldnt be listened to and that is somehting that always strikes me about christians...for supposed do-gooders...you speak badly of many things...if you did not create it and do not participate in it then you have no room to talk :rolleyes:

enamored valor
if you would have read my post in context, you would have realized that that wasn't what i was saying. i did NOT say that all secular music is trash.what i meant to say is that on average, there are lots of secular bands that glorify a lot of things that can't be considered moral by just about anyone. it doesn't take a rocket scientist to turn on the radio and realise this. as i also stated, there are a lot of secular bands and artists that i respect wholeheartldly and listen to. i am not saying that i demand that everyone else should listen to christian music. i am certainly not saying that i demand that people should be forced to give up listening to secular music. at the end of the day, it's up to you, an individual person, to decide what you listen to. that's part of what freedom is all about.

if you would have read my post in context, you would have realized that that wasn't what i was saying. i did NOT say that all secular music is trash.what i meant to say is that on average, there are lots of secular bands that glorify a lot of things that can't be considered moral by just about anyone. it doesn't take a rocket scientist to turn on the radio and realise this. as i also stated, there are a lot of secular bands and artists that i respect wholeheartldly and listen to. i am not saying that i demand that everyone else should listen to christian music. i am certainly not saying that i demand that people should be forced to give up listening to secular music. at the end of the day, it's up to you, an individual person, to decide what you listen to. that's part of what freedom is all about.


no, i understood what you said...and i said that you cant call it trash bc you didnt participate in it...which makes sense...think abt it... i also never said that you demanded anything...and later on, not unlike youi made a generalization...the statement that on average...i hear a lot of christians saying many malevolent things about music, people, etc. i was just making a differernt-but true- point

enamored valor :D

and i fully admit that a lot of my "brothers and sisters in christ" can be irrational, insensitive, and intolerant. unfortunately i can only try to make sure that i don't exert those characteristics, they have to make that decision themselves.

on that we just might agree :D

enamored valor

anyway, what i dont get is how any religion, its just mostly christians here in the U.S., think that they should be able to run everything and then get upset when they cant. Just because you do not have a religion does not mean that you are an aethist. That is a CHRISTIAN term bc they "dont approve."

what i figure is that you can be what you want to be...words are just that....simply titles to try to explain the purpose of the item in question....by determining life...you create death, so dont decide what is right in fear that you may create what is wrong....

supposedly in the first amendement of the U. S. Bill of Rights and the 18th article of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights we are given the right to have any religion, or lack of one, and the right to assemble and show our belief....well thats means that you cant really bash christians for their music...the have the right....but in the same aspect...how can we really jail the muslims who are involved in jihad (religious wars)? They were given the right to show their religion and that is how they do it...

but wait...it also states in both documents that one human cannot trespass on another's right...meaning that they should be jaiked and unliked music should not be made...right? well, not matter how you look at the rules some of you will disagree...thats part of life....enjoy your right to disagree...sometimes its the only reason you are still concious.......


Article 18.
Everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion; this right includes freedom to change his religion or belief, and freedom, either alone or in community with others and in public or private, to manifest his religion or belief in teaching, practice, worship and observance.



Amendment I
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.


so as far as im concerned...go read ur "holy scripture"...if you read it right and then think abt it...you may realize some things you didnt want to know

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Enamored Valor

I will pray for you brother!!!

God Bless!!!

sorry we disagree

my prayers are with you that Christ will be revealed in your life!!!

my prayers are with you that Christ will be revealed in your life!!!

My prayers are with you that Allah/Odin/Ra will be revealed in your life.

What I don't understand is why people don't like commercialised music. Why they think music is all about some idea of integrity. Because the old composers, they did it for the money in many cases. Why should we have different motives today.

And why is it that just because something is not about changing the world, but about having a good time on a Saturday night - its commercialised litter, trash, [insert favourite derogatory adjective here]? For some people, like myself, music that's about having a good time, getting drunk, dancing, etc. is completely relevant to our lives. Why call it trash?

It isn´t even close to metal,at that,so don´t go all emo on me and start throwing feces in my direction,k?
As for the elitist comment: I honestly wish more people were.Maybe then we wouldn´t have watered down shit like As I Lay Dying or commercial atrocities such as Britney Spears all over the radio. Give me MC Hammer over 50 Cent,Iron Maiden over As I Lay Dying and Billy Idol over Brittney Spears,then I might actually switch on the radio.

Besides,I was trying to be polite.Instead of "gothenburgesque" I could have just called it "In Flames-influenced bullshit".But precision´s a bitch,ain´t it?
As for heavy: Shut the fuck up about heavy,you "illiterate fool,you"(just to further the totally wrong opinion you have about me and actual elitists in general :rolleyes: ).Ah well,I think I´ve been insulting enough without calling you "whimp","poser","pussy" and all the other stuff I´m actually thinking here,so I´ll leave it and simply give you something actually heavy to listen to.

So,you want heavy?

THIS is heavy : http://www.anentity.com/demilich/

Fair enough if you don't like As I Lay Dying (it's not one of my favourite bands either) but what annoyed me was an incredibly derived words such as "gothenburgesque". Reminds me far too much of pretentious art reviewers who say that "this piece is Warhol-derived and Van Gough-esque". Yes eliteism is good in some respects, I agree with you. I personally hate anything mainstream. In my opinion, As I Lay Dying is heavy, yes. It's a totally relative term. Some people think Motorhead is heavy. Some people think Bon Jovi is heavy. Doesn't mean they're right or wrong. Yes, As I Lay Dying isn't as heavy as say, Nile or Lamb Of God, but it still factors into my idea of heavy. May not be yours, but that's your opinion.

Incidentally, if I was to go all "emo on you", I'd probably take a biro and write a depressing poem about why some girl doesn't notice me on your arm ;). I'll admit I was harsh before, and for that I actually apologise, but those phrases do annoy me beyond all reproach. As I always appreciate new bands, here's a band from my country you may or may not appreciate. Depends on your taste. http://www.sakkuth.com/

Would just like to say that I wholeheartedly agree with the OP on this issue.

I hate finding I've been tricked into hearing something I would, if presented with it knowingly, usually go out of my way to avoid. I agree anyone is entitled to make whatever music they like...just so long as they do not try to make me listen to it!

I wish there was some sort of flagging system that automatically put up what catagory of music something is....maybe religious music should be made to add a warning to the ID3 tag, for those who do not care to hear it?

Oh... I will admit to a slight bias here. I suspect the reason I am so averse to hearing xtian propaganda inadvertently, is because I am a Satanist ;)

Ya, but I mean, horrorcore would seem pretty non Christian too, wouldn't it? There's Christian metal just like there's Christian techno. The best way to indoctrinate people is through music. Christian metal? I don't think that can really exist. It just… doesn't seem right.

To the OP, stop worrying. Hey, I'm a Christian who likes Dimmu Borgir! :p

My prayers are with you that Allah/Odin/Ra will be revealed in your life.
Collect the blood of Kingu from the great old sea
And arrogate the primaeval waters
Inside your veins the power of the demon flows
Have you ever searched for your descent?
Come to Kingu.

Are Good Charlotte Christian??

I don't like 'em, I just heard someone say that they were & I was curious.

black metal my man

I hate the way christian music is classified. Anything with a few vague mentions of God is classified as Christian.

Actually don't like is too strong, I've never really gotten around to listening to them.

Apathy can be such a crime sometimes.

sorry we disagree

my prayers are with you that Christ will be revealed in your life!!!
Christ was already revealed in my life. Damn, he sucks at hide and seek.

I only listen to it because its better than the atheist music (come to think of it, I've never heard any music that was specifically atheist in any sense). The Hallelujah chorus is simply too good not to listen to while atheists have produced only a handful of classically good songs, like John Lennon's Imagine.

That also happens to be why I listen to music made by conservatives (Bach, et al.) because there have been very few leftist composers and pop/rap/etc isn't my thing.

Most music is Satanic anyway

http://www.goodfight.org/exposesnames.htm

Most music is Satanic anyway

http://www.goodfight.org/exposesnames.htm

Wow, that was certainly full of bullshit. Though i'll admit I only read small parts before my brain began to melt out my ears.

I will pray for you brother!!!

God Bless!!!

im definitely more feminine than that

sorry we disagree

my prayers are with you that Christ will be revealed in your life!!!

dont apologize...thats one of the great freedoms given to you by birth simply because you are

I hate the way christian music is classified. Anything with a few vague mentions of God is classified as Christian.

then dont classify it...just let it be :) thats one of the harder things to really do...


I only listen to it because its better than the atheist music (come to think of it, I've never heard any music that was specifically atheist in any sense). The Hallelujah chorus is simply too good not to listen to while atheists have produced only a handful of classically good songs, like John Lennon's Imagine.

That also happens to be why I listen to music made by conservatives (Bach, et al.) because there have been very few leftist composers and pop/rap/etc isn't my thing.

aethist is a term made up by christians people who have no religion or a different one are not aethist to anyone but those involved in christianity...why should we label these ppl according to christian beliefs? why should we label them at all?

Most music is Satanic anyway

http://www.goodfight.org/exposesnames.htm

Satan was also made up by christians and re-inforced by Dante's Inferno...the different levels of hell....and the christians adapted pagan gods (AND PAGAN DOES NOT MEN DEVIL WORSHIP) and used specific parts to "create" satan...like the horned god of fertility...they used the horns to signify eviil...and even the christmas ceremony was originally a pagan holiday...

so no, i cant agree, most music is not satanic bc most artists probably dont care enough to worry about it (btw that was a generaliztaion...there are exceptions to EVERYTHING)

Enamored Valor

if you dont like music thats sullied by christianity, you could listen to bad religion. oh, or Oi Polloi, who are stupidly, stupidly stupidly, STUPIDLY good. you cant get better than "bash the fash", "Fuck everybody who voted tory", "john major, fuck you" and "george bush, fuck you" for song titles, or for that matter, songs. or basically any other punk bands.

Lots of Christian music is quite good. Kutless "Sea of Faces" is quite good.

Well ... if you don't like religious or spiritual undertones to your music, whatever you do, don't listen to Cat Stevens (Yusef Islam).

Just a sampling of that crazy Muslim's lyrics:

"Praise with elation, praise every morning, God's recreation of the new day." - Morning Has Broken [Teaser and the Firecat, 1971] (Qur'an 34:1)

"If you want to be you, be you. If you want to be me, be me. There's a million ways to be, you know that there are." - If You Want To Sing Out, Sing Out [Harold and Maude Soundtrack, 1971] (Qur'an 109:6)

And so on ...

Incidently, he's been nominated for the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame.

for all you mtvers, Relient K is considered Christian. They have a lot of songs that aren't religious (Mood Rings, Sadie Hawkins Dance, College Kids, In Love w/ the 80's, etc.) but other songs are. a good band that retired last year was Five Iron Frenzy. same thing, and these guys were ska punk. they also had some political/social themed songs, such as American Kryptonite and Farewell to Arms.

Five Iron Frenzy retired?

#@%$

I usually don't mind religious music, it's just that bands that are religious tend to suck. FIF is one of those bands that stands out as "not suck". Switchfoot is kind of a guilty pleasure band in that they such, but I like them anyway.

Five Iron Frenzy retired?

#@%$

I usually don't mind religious music, it's just that bands that are religious tend to suck. FIF is one of those bands that stands out as "not suck". Switchfoot is kind of a guilty pleasure band in that they such, but I like them anyway. Would Nightwish count as "religious"? They have songs like Gethsemene, and they do have demi-religious undertones.

The way I see it, you can view Christian music more as mythological music than as a worldview. Just as a Christian wouldn't object to the music from the lion king, its possible to view Christian media as part of a fictional world. I personally am an Atheist that finds the Christian mythological world rather interesting, especially as portrayed in Dante's Inferno. I just view it as a work of fiction.

Interesting choice, by the way. Maybe it's just this ass-end corner of Georgia, but there is actually a very strong prejudice against the movie "Lion King" almost ENTIRELY based on a 'christian' dislike of the song "Circle of Life".

And yet, singing about letting circles 'be unbroken' is apparently just peachy.

Fair enough if you don't like As I Lay Dying (it's not one of my favourite bands either) but what annoyed me was an incredibly derived words such as "gothenburgesque". Reminds me far too much of pretentious art reviewers who say that "this piece is Warhol-derived and Van Gough-esque". Yes eliteism is good in some respects, I agree with you. I personally hate anything mainstream. In my opinion, As I Lay Dying is heavy, yes. It's a totally relative term. Some people think Motorhead is heavy. Some people think Bon Jovi is heavy. Doesn't mean they're right or wrong. Yes, As I Lay Dying isn't as heavy as say, Nile or Lamb Of God, but it still factors into my idea of heavy. May not be yours, but that's your opinion.

Incidentally, if I was to go all "emo on you", I'd probably take a biro and write a depressing poem about why some girl doesn't notice me on your arm ;). I'll admit I was harsh before, and for that I actually apologise, but those phrases do annoy me beyond all reproach. As I always appreciate new bands, here's a band from my country you may or may not appreciate. Depends on your taste. http://www.sakkuth.com/

Thanks,I´ll check em out :)

No, it's just that I don't like it when people write about something under the pretext of something else. I don't mind gospel, in fact, I like a fair bit of gospel. But I listen to it already aware of the fact that it is religious in nature.

What upsets me is when I'm jamming to some music and then -- BAM! I realize it's some trendy crap about Jesus. That just stings.

actually that just sounds silly. If you're jamming to it, and you're enjoying it, what does it matter that its about Jesus? Do you feel it will damage you in some way? There's actually VERY little of that happening anyway, certainly not enough to complain about.

Oh do get over yourself. Seriously, most artists make it pretty damn obvious what they're about. All we're asking is that you do the same in return.


are you suggesting that bands must warn you about their political, religious, and sociological views before making their music? most artists do NOT make it obvious what they're about. Give me a break. Pink Floyd is extremely political but there's nothing, NOTHING that warns you of that until you've heard the lyrics. What was Led Zepplin about? Some bands write music that has nothing to do with their own views at all. What are they about?

You listen to the music, if you like it, you buy it and listen to it again. If you don't, you skip it and find something else.

When I listen to music I ask, "Is this art, or is this propaganda?"
Even propaganda can be beautiful, but one needs to recognize it as such.
Don't trusts artists with philosophy, and don't trust philosophers with art.

exactly. I'm a huge Pink Floyd fan. Roger Waters writes almost exclusively about politics. About HIS views of politics. I pretty much disagree with his whole political stance but I absolutely LOVE his music and still enjoy singing his lyrics at the top of my lungs while stuck on the highway. He writes propoganda, but it doesn't make me dislike his music.

Unfortunately, that's not the slightest bit true. Look up As I Lay Dying and Zao for example. Christian bands, but still thrash and headbang to the max. I don't mind music with religious undertones, I listen to the previous bands mentioned but I also listen to Slayer and Sabbat, and I'm neither Satanist or Christian.


You, sir, have just mastered this discussion. I salute you! ;) :cool:

Well done.

[QUOTE=LazyHippies]Snip[QUOTE]



I am not trying to suggest that we pigeonhole any artist who happens to write a song about God or religion as Christian, but that bands whose purpose is to praise God make their intentions and reasons for making music transparent.

They do. Its called the lyrics.

I limit my classifications of genres by 11 letters, because words like gothenburgesque and neosataniaclassical give me the shits. As do the people who use phrases like gothenburgesque crossover. It's loud, it's heavy and it ain't pure metal, so what am I gonna call it? Elitest picky bastard. And if the word neo-gothic comes up in conversation, I'm going to shit in your mailbox.


:eek: LOL! :D

Sounds like some of those wine tasting nerds. Ever watch Sideways? LOL!

look, just because you like a certain kind of music doesnt mean you can demote the rest as trash...you cant decide what should and shouldnt be listened to and that is somehting that always strikes me about christians...for supposed do-gooders...you speak badly of many things...if you did not create it and do not participate in it then you have no room to talk :rolleyes:

enamored valor

agreed, Only you say this strikes you about christians, when this shoe fits on many non-christians in this thread as well. They don't like the message in christian music so they should be warned ahead of time to save them the pain of hearing it. :rolleyes:

Christian metal? Now I've heard of everything.

Just stick with *REAL* metal.

weeeell, aren't WE biased?

no, i understood what you said...and i said that you cant call it trash bc you didnt participate in it...which makes sense...think abt it... i also never said that you demanded anything...and later on, not unlike youi made a generalization...the statement that on average...i hear a lot of christians saying many malevolent things about music, people, etc. i was just making a differernt-but true- point

enamored valor :D

actually, he CAN call it trash. If that's his opinion of it, he most certainly can express it. Now that doesn't necessarily MAKE it trash, but he can call it whatever he likes.

My prayers are with you that Allah/Odin/Ra will be revealed in your life.

They were, and they were found wanting.

Would just like to say that I wholeheartedly agree with the OP on this issue.

I hate finding I've been tricked into hearing something I would, if presented with it knowingly, usually go out of my way to avoid. I agree anyone is entitled to make whatever music they like...just so long as they do not try to make me listen to it!

I wish there was some sort of flagging system that automatically put up what catagory of music something is....maybe religious music should be made to add a warning to the ID3 tag, for those who do not care to hear it?

Oh... I will admit to a slight bias here. I suspect the reason I am so averse to hearing xtian propaganda inadvertently, is because I am a Satanist ;)

I agree, flagging them would be good. But I also feel anything that refers to drinking should be flagged. Also, just in case people are offended by American football, a flag on any songs there should also be instituted. And with all the global warming discussions, anything to do with trucks might also be offensive to some so we should put flags on any music about trucks (or racing cars). And if you don't like cooking....

They were, and they were found wanting.

Only because your heart is too full with pride.

Christian metal? Now I've heard of everything.

Just stick with *REAL* metal.


weeeell, aren't WE biased?


The idea of Christian Metal is pretty counter-intuitive. Add this to the fact that the VAST majority of Christian Metal out there is simply crappy music, and I'd say bias against it is pretty justified.

weeeell, aren't WE biased?
Well considering metals real draw and history is its ties with counter culture

And Christianity is defiantly not counter culture, it would seem to take a lot of the steam out of the genera

I hate lyrics.

If I wanted to listen to words I would listen to a lecture.

I want to listen to interesting combinations of tones, rythms and harmonics - that's why I listen to Electronica, Ambient, Ambient Goth, GOA, Jazz, World Ambient, Classical, Trance etc.

Interesting choice, by the way. Maybe it's just this ass-end corner of Georgia, but there is actually a very strong prejudice against the movie "Lion King" almost ENTIRELY based on a 'christian' dislike of the song "Circle of Life".

And yet, singing about letting circles 'be unbroken' is apparently just peachy.

They object to the song? Why?

weeeell, aren't WE biased? No. Real metal is based on:
• Genocide
• Stalking
• Dark gods
• Heroic last stands

I suppose you could have "real" Christian metal, but it'd have to be from the Old Testament. :D

They object to the song? Why?

as a christian, I can honestly answer this question with...I have no Earthly idea. Must be a Georgia thing.

No. Real metal is based on:
• Genocide
• Stalking
• Dark gods
• Heroic last stands

I suppose you could have "real" Christian metal, but it'd have to be from the Old Testament. :D

LOL!

The idea of Christian Metal is pretty counter-intuitive. Add this to the fact that the VAST majority of Christian Metal out there is simply crappy music, and I'd say bias against it is pretty justified.

I don't know about counter-intuitive. There's nothing in Christian doctrine against loud heavy guitars (although there are lots of baptists who seem to think there is). Now the fact that most of it is crappy music I can't argue, but that would be more of a lack of talent as opposed to a reflection of the content. There's quite a lot of non-christian metal that's pretty crappy too. I don't believe singing about Jesus alters the musician's talent level at all. They either have it or they don't.

agreed, Only you say this strikes you about christians, when this shoe fits on many non-christians in this thread as well. They don't like the message in christian music so they should be warned ahead of time to save them the pain of hearing it. :rolleyes:

true but hello...what group proclaims that they "love their neighbors???" i'll give you three chances and the first two dont count...

as a population, we expect more from christians bc they say they are better....well, i havent met very good examples

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
enamored valor

Okay, first off:
NO MATTER WHAT YOU SAY, THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS CHRISTIAN METAL! They may want to be metal but they aren't, okay? Okay. Now second, if you want some metal that is Anti-Christian listen to Dimmu Borgir, Behemoth, Morbid Angel ( I have never actually heard a full song so I'm assuming on this) Cradle of Filth (they are metal) and of course, as has been said, Slayer.

There is other Anti-Christian metal I'm sure but I can't think of any others.

:Edit: I'm being closed-minded. It's just in my mind, Christian metal is a oxymoron to me, like saying "Your drinking the air!" (I dont know what a good oxymoron is, it escapes me)

They object to the song? Why?

As someone else commented, it might well be a Georgia thing.

I believe they consider the idea of a 'circle of life' somehow heretical. Maybe it's the cyclic life thing... or maybe it's the idea tht all life is interconnected...

These are the people that get bent out of shape if they hear the phrase 'human animal' as well....

true but hello...what group proclaims that they "love their neighbors???" i'll give you three chances and the first two dont count...

as a population, we expect more from christians bc they say they are better....well, i havent met very good examples

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
enamored valor

Any Christian who claims to be better is not really a Christian at all. A Christian is a humble person who doesn't claim to be better. And what is with the whole putting your name at the end of each post anyway?

Also on the subject. I'm going to say it right now, the best music is 80s music. Oh and the Death Row stuff that was put out in the 80s. Snoop Dog and Dr. Dre forever! Oh and I guess BIG and 2Pac too, yeah. Well, as long as the lyrics are good and the beat is nice, as my friends'd say "It's aight"

Now, let's stop all this flaming and give each other a nice big group hug.

i agree with the 80s part anyway....i dont care all that much for 80s pop....i mean i like some of it...but by damn 80s rock was the best :D :D

enamored valor

Okay, first off:
NO MATTER WHAT YOU SAY, THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS CHRISTIAN METAL! They may want to be metal but they aren't, okay? Okay. Now second, if you want some metal that is Anti-Christian listen to Dimmu Borgir, Behemoth, Morbid Angel ( I have never actually heard a full song so I'm assuming on this) Cradle of Filth (they are metal) and of course, as has been said, Slayer.

There is other Anti-Christian metal I'm sure but I can't think of any others.

:Edit: I'm being closed-minded. It's just in my mind, Christian metal is a oxymoron to me, like saying "Your drinking the air!" (I dont know what a good oxymoron is, it escapes me)

:lol: Oh yeah,the "I´m So EvIl!" Dimmu Borgir n00b combined with the dreaded CoF-fanboyism. Shit,I thought we killed you guys off along with all those Slipknot fanboys... :rolleyes:

(Had you said "there is no such thing as christian BLACK metal",you would have been correct.Unfortunately,you don´t listen to black metal,so there´s no way you´d know...)

And, puh-lease!Slayer,of all bands, is pretty much the worst example you could choose.It´s like waving around a sign that says "Hey,I´m a dumbass and Slayer is the only evil band I know!Take me seriously!". Come on,kids,loose those stupid blinds and educate yourself. And BUY THE FIRST THREE MORBID ANGEL ALBUMS FOR CHRISTS SAKE!

If I keep on hearing stuff like this I´m honestly just gonna have to bludgeon you all with a list of bands to shut up those who don´t know what they´re talking about(and entertain those who do.I´ll play "find the freaky joke band that consists only of transvestites playing homophobic grindcore" or something,so the post won´t be a total waste of space...)

:headbang: YOU give metalheads a bad name and make us the laughing-stock of the nations.Congrats,dumbo.Grow some wings if you wanna learn to fly,those ears look damn stupid.

i agree with the 80s part anyway....i dont care all that much for 80s pop....i mean i like some of it...but by damn 80s rock was the best :D :D

enamored valor

True dat,but before the 80s there was CCR :)

Conversely, ICP (the impetus for this thread) is not only Christian, but allows that facet of their lives to contort their music.


Yeah, sneaky clowns. Putting a track like Hall of Illusions (which has a christian message) on a single that also features a homage to muff-diving.

What I liked best about the Posse is that for soooo many years everybody thought that the Juggalo they reffered to as their master was some strange demented creature and it turned out to be God. When then revisiting their back catalog there are christian references all over the place. I really like that, even though I'm agnostic. In the words of pro-wrestling "the fans got worked"

What I'm really interested in is finding out wether you realised that ICPs stuff was christian music of found out due to them 'unveiling' that secret (which was some two years ago if I remember correctly)

Personally I didn't notice until my cusin told me about ICPs own statement as to the christian elements to their music (but then again, I didn't look for that kind of stuff)

Oh and on the subject of bands were you will NEVER find a christian message, check out Burzum (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burzum). That's your old school Norwegian, church burning and guitarist killing Black Metal.

True dat,but before the 80s there was CCR :)

And Floyd ;)

And Floyd ;)

Never forget ole Jimi Hendrix :)

:lol: Oh yeah,the "I´m So EvIl!" Dimmu Borgir n00b combined with the dreaded CoF-fanboyism. Shit,I thought we killed you guys off along with all those Slipknot fanboys... :rolleyes:

(Had you said "there is no such thing as christian BLACK metal",you would have been correct.Unfortunately,you don´t listen to black metal,so there´s no way you´d know...) Hey, what's wrong with Dimmu? I don't like CoF or Slipknot, but Dimmu have true musical style.

Anyway, it's true that some metal is sort of Christianish. Little *good* metal is overtly Satanic (oooh, look at me, I say I'm the Antichrist, I'm so mature) - little *good* music is overtly Christian, I find.
Black metal doesn't really work with a Christian message, anyway. I'm a Christian, and my band never touches upon anything remotely approaching Christian messages - evil is more fun. :p

i like this song:

El Shaddai -- written by Michael Card

CHORUS:
El Shaddai, El Shaddai,
El Elyonna Adonai,
age to age you're still the same,
by the power of the name.
El Shaddai, El Shaddai,
erkamkana Adonai,
we will praise and lift you high,
El Shaddai.

VERSE 1:
Through your love and through the ram,
you saved the son of Abraham,
through the power of your hand
you turned the sea into dry land.
To the outcast on her knees
you were the God who really sees,
and by your might you set your children free.
---
CHORUS
---
VERSE 2:
Through the years you made it clear
that the time of Christ was near,
though the people couldn't see
what Messiah ought to be.
Though your Word contained the plan,
they just could not understand,
your most awesome work was done in the frailty of your Son.

CHORUS and fade

I don't know about counter-intuitive. There's nothing in Christian doctrine against loud heavy guitars (although there are lots of baptists who seem to think there is). Now the fact that most of it is crappy music I can't argue, but that would be more of a lack of talent as opposed to a reflection of the content. There's quite a lot of non-christian metal that's pretty crappy too. I don't believe singing about Jesus alters the musician's talent level at all. They either have it or they don't.

Well, I meant counter-inuitive from a metalheads point of view rather than a Christian's, though you're right about the baptists.

Yep, there's a lot of crappy metal out there that's not Christian, but there's also a lot of good metal out there that's not Christian. There's very little good Christian Metal out there (I've never heard even semi-decent Christian Metal, personally, but it must exist somewhere,)

And no, singing about Jesus in metal doesn't alter the musician's level of talent, but it seems that a metaller who wants to sing about Jesus a lot has a very low talent level to begin with.

i agree with the 80s part anyway....i dont care all that much for 80s pop....i mean i like some of it...but by damn 80s rock was the best :D :D

enamored valorJoy Division (And New Order), The Cure, Sisters of Mercy