NationStates Jolt Archive

So, here's a question. If it's a sin, why didn't God just set it up so that sex would only feel good with the right person?
I -- er, God wanted to test humans to see if they could find the right person first, I suppose. (Paraphrased from a NR argument.)

Unfortunately one does not choose their emotions. If this were true no one would cry, or feel worthless. Physical demands of the body happen whether we like them or not. I can choose to ignore it over and over and over again, by busying myself with something else. But, what kind of life is that? running from something that makes you happy?
you choose how you react to what happens to you. you can learn to control your emotions.

So, here's a question. If it's a sin, why didn't God just set it up so that sex would only feel good with the right person?

Just a guess, but I suppose the religious answer would be found somewhere back in the development of original sin, the devil, and all of that...the temptation is set into place, and it's your will to decide whether or not you will indulge in that temptation.

you are going to understand me a whole lot better if you understand that one of the things that helped me turn my life around ( and believe me I was headed down the wrong road full steam) is that I truely believe that emotions are easily controled
happiness, being miserable, feeling unloved, being angry these in my opinion are all choices.
I can not control what happens to me, only how I choose to react to it.

I know this philosophy doesn't work for everyone, but it works for me.
Maybe I should try that. I've always been a slave to my increasingly mercurial moods, so if I just play the totalitarian and tell myself what my mood is...

you are going to understand me a whole lot better if you understand that one of the things that helped me turn my life around ( and believe me I was headed down the wrong road full steam) is that I truely believe that emotions are easily controled
happiness, being miserable, feeling unloved, being angry these in my opinion are all choices.
I can not control what happens to me, only how I choose to react to it.

I know this philosophy doesn't work for everyone, but it works for me.

I think you're speaking of repressing negative emotions. I really don't think that's healthy at all. It's just creating a time bomb. You need to vent and you need to release agression and other emotions through other means, not just "choose" to ignore them. That's called bottling it all up.

you choose how you react to what happens to you. you can learn to control your emotions.

You ever watched Star Trek? I think you need some pointy ears lol

You ever watched Star Trek? I think you need some pointy ears lol

It's my guess that they are pointy already, from having denied his own impulses for so long.

you are going to understand me a whole lot better if you understand that one of the things that helped me turn my life around ( and believe me I was headed down the wrong road full steam) is that I truely believe that emotions are easily controled
happiness, being miserable, feeling unloved, being angry these in my opinion are all choices.
I can not control what happens to me, only how I choose to react to it.

I know this philosophy doesn't work for everyone, but it works for me.

It is not that I don't believe you, but I just don't get it. When my grandfather died, I was sad. There was no way I could see to flip a switch to make me feel elated. We sat around telling stories; there was tears, and laughter but none of us could decide, "We will be happy about this."

Do you honestly never have a 'negative' emotion?

I understand about controlling emotions: I feal anger at various injustices. However, I use that anger and try and do something contructive with it: volunteering, letter writing campaignes, etc. In spite of this, I still feel those emotions.

I think you're speaking of repressing negative emotions. I really don't think that's healthy at all. It's just creating a time bomb. You need to vent and you need to release agression and other emotions through other means, not just "choose" to ignore them. That's called bottling it all up.

Or maybe his future wife will be a very, very happy woman when that time bomb finally has the opportunity to "go off." :p

So, here's a question. If it's a sin, why didn't God just set it up so that sex would only feel good with the right person?

Just quoting this bit so you know im replying to you.


Im not saying that sex is all that a relationship is about. But saving it for the person you love and marry is saving the most intimate thing you can do.

If you are having thoughts of what it would be like with someone else, and you are thinking that you are missing something then you do not truely love the person you are with, and you are missing the point of sex altogether. It isnt about getting the biggest kick. Its making love to the person you love, being able to express that what cant be said.


And I can answer your question with this: God gave us choice, letting us decide what to do. But he did give us guidelines of how to live. We have the choice to either do what is right, or live to satisfy our lusts and desires.

I think you're speaking of repressing negative emotions. I really don't think that's healthy at all. It's just creating a time bomb. You need to vent and you need to release agression and other emotions through other means, not just "choose" to ignore them. That's called bottling it all up.
I don't ignore them, I don't repress them. I can choose not to react with anger when someone does something that upsets me. Why should I let someone else be in control of how I feel? I don't want to be angry, so I decide not to be. Do I slip up and get angry sometimes, yes and I vent in appropriate ways(most of the time sometimes I screw up)

I was mostly speaking about people who say "I am unhappy because... and there isn't anything I can do about it" or "My husband just doesn't make me happy"

If you are unhappy you should ask yourself why, if it is in your control then change it, if it isn't then you need to learn to accept it and get on with your life. Did I cry when my dad died? yes. was I unhappy that he was gone? yes. Did I spiral into deep depression, cowering in a corner for years on end crying about how unfair life is? no. and you know why? because there is nothing I could have done about it. Having emotions isn't bad, letting them take control of your life is.

Just a guess, but I suppose the religious answer would be found somewhere back in the development of original sin, the devil, and all of that...the temptation is set into place, and it's your will to decide whether or not you will indulge in that temptation.

See, that's never really satisfied me in my religious questioning. It always comes off as sounding vaguely dodgy. God created everything, except when he didn't.

Isn't it a better idea that God created sex to be a joyful experience and that, sure, it has different overtones when one is in a long-term, loving relationship, but it is also pretty darn good when two adults reaffirm their humanity and a sense of their own existance through it, regardless of their relationship status?

I'm not a champion of mindless, meaningless sex. Far from it. However, it also seems to me that a lot of people who are against premarital sex are either A) married, B) in a relationship, C) hypocrites (see the recent study on sexual activities in teenagers) or D) just not getting any. Sex is one of the most fundamental and enjoyable parts of the human experience. To say you can't have that part or that it is wrong unless you find your "soulmate," that one person who you will be with for the rest of your life, seems needlessly limiting and, in a way, a flaunting of God's creation. Many people may never find that one person they are compatible with. So should they never have sex or should they just grab the first person that is "close enough" so they can get married and satisfy a basic human drive?

You ever watched Star Trek? I think you need some pointy ears lol
I am far from vulcan. Although I thank you for the compliment:)

Or maybe his future wife will be a very, very happy woman when that time bomb finally has the opportunity to "go off." :p
Isn't he a she? I think she said something about husband earlier. . . anyway, I think that sex is a great way to release stress and I highly recommend it after a tough day at the office/school.

I too have experienced what you are discussing, that of choosing to be happy or sad.

I tell you it works.

I am generally a happy person.
If something bad happens, I can make myself happy.

Death is not a permanent bad thing. It is more like going on vacation, so I would be happy in the fact that I would be seeing my Great-grandfather again someday later on. (yes, my great grandfather died a couple years back)

The negative emotions are addictive and the more we succumb to them, the more we experience them :)

There is nothing Spock-y about it. It is just looking at the world in a non-conformist way :)

Do you beleive in sex before marriage? :fluffle:

I don't believe in sex before death.

Isn't he a she? I think she said something about husband earlier. . . anyway, I think that sex is a great way to release stress and I highly recommend it after a tough day at the office/school.

If so my apologies to the poster (happens to me all the time too, I'm also a girl). In any case the post would work both ways. :p

I too have experienced what you are discussing, that of choosing to be happy or sad.

I tell you it works.


Try doing that with sexual urges. If you're really horny, tell me, how simple is it to instantly become "un-horny" without doing anything other than changing your mind. Do you honestly believe that such a thing is good for you?

Yes, you can refrain from sex. But don't tell me it doesn't bother you in the slightest to do so.

There is nothing Spock-y about it. It is just looking at the world in a non-conformist way :)

There's nothing wrong with "conforming" and crying becuase a loved one died. I think it's less healthy not to let it all out. The grieving process is both necessary and healthy.

I too have experienced what you are discussing, that of choosing to be happy or sad.

I tell you it works.

I am generally a happy person.
If something bad happens, I can make myself happy.

Death is not a permanent bad thing. It is more like going on vacation, so I would be happy in the fact that I would be seeing my Great-grandfather again someday later on. (yes, my great grandfather died a couple years back)

The negative emotions are addictive and the more we succumb to them, the more we experience them :)

There is nothing Spock-y about it. It is just looking at the world in a non-conformist way :)
Negative emotions are evil.

So are good emotions.

Emotions in general are bad for you. They are a sign of weakness, and when fighting all of humanity you cannot display weakness.


Ok, I'll stop now.

I kinda quit reading everything after page 11.

Anyway, marraige is supposed to satisfy people's natural desire for ritual. In high school, kids (typically) of opposite sexes don't have to be "going out" to show eachother love, but they want to make things official anyway. It makes "them" into a social entity. That's what marriage is for. Considering the fact that America is a huge multiethnic country with almost no common culture, people here should not feel pressure to marry before having sex. It's nothing but a sterile legal formality.

Or maybe his future wife will be a very, very happy woman when that time bomb finally has the opportunity to "go off." :p
I am in fact a woman. My husband however enjoys my emotional self control and I am a happy that he also can control his emotions. You know a lot of people think we don't have arguements, we do, we don't have knock down drag out fights though.
In fact he has never raised his voice to me, or mine to him.
We have never called eachother names, or gotten physical.(hitting ect.)
We don't take disagreements personally, he has only really hurt my feelings once and I called him on it, he apologised and reworded and I understood what he was trying to say then and decided not to be hurt about it.

Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.
Love never fails. 1 Corinthians 13:4-8

If you are unhappy you should ask yourself why, if it is in your control then change it, if it isn't then you need to learn to accept it and get on with your life. Did I cry when my dad died? yes. was I unhappy that he was gone? yes. Did I spiral into deep depression, cowering in a corner for years on end crying about how unfair life is? no. and you know why? because there is nothing I could have done about it. Having emotions isn't bad, letting them take control of your life is.

But emotions do control our lives. We do what we do (for the most part) because it makes us happy (I married my wife because it made us happy, I teach because it makes me happy, I run because it makes me happy, I avoid my parrents as much as possible because being around them makes me unhappy, I volunteer at a Woman's Shelter and soup kitchen because it makes me happy). If I was to take everything that made someone happy away from them, they almost deffinately would spiral down into deep depressoin. My thoughts are you did not spiral because you still had enough joy in your life to keep you healthy. But if somone took away everything that gave you joy, could you still be happy?

It is not that I don't believe you, but I just don't get it. When my grandfather died, I was sad. There was no way I could see to flip a switch to make me feel elated. We sat around telling stories; there was tears, and laughter but none of us could decide, "We will be happy about this."

Do you honestly never have a 'negative' emotion?

I understand about controlling emotions: I feal anger at various injustices. However, I use that anger and try and do something contructive with it: volunteering, letter writing campaignes, etc. In spite of this, I still feel those emotions.
I do have negative emotions. I have a wide range of emotions. I don't see the point of letting them control your life though.

Try doing that with sexual urges. If you're really horny, tell me, how simple is it to instantly become "un-horny" without doing anything other than changing your mind. Do you honestly believe that such a thing is good for you?

Yes, you can refrain from sex. But don't tell me it doesn't bother you in the slightest to do so.

Here here! If you have a person you trust and who turns your crank, and you're horny, and it's both consentual, and you're safe or prepared to accept the concequences, and it's not interefering with you life, go right ahead. I tell you, it's as simple as that from my perspective, but then I'm not remotely religious so there you go. At least you won't be able to mock me in the after life if I'm wrong as I'll surely be very far away from all of you religious people.

Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.
Love never fails. 1 Corinthians 13:4-8

I love that quote, I just have one problem with how it is used. It is talking about agape or brotherly love, not eros or romantic love so can actually be applied to relationships with everyone not just marriage.

I waited until my wedding day to have sex. My husband did not come into marriage a virgin like I did....but the fact that we waited anyway led him to have a higher respect and esteem for me. I became different and far more precious than any other woman that he had been with.

Also... I think waiting allowed us to really anticipate and value the relationship we experienced after we were married. And I will never buy any of that nonsense about not being able to find someone you are sexually compatible with unless you do it first. My husband and I were able to grow together into a place where we are both satisfied and happy. If you truly are in sync with a person enough to marry them, I dont think you will find sex difficult or unsatisfying after the fact!

And look.... all my sexual memories and experiences are with the man I will spend the rest of my life with. Can you ever know how valuable that is to him? Its the most precious gift I ever could give him. I would give almost anything to know the same of him!

And also.... you dont have to be naive to be a virgin. Guys talk about liking experience....but because I dont have any bad experiences, NO sexual act has any stigma attached to it....so..... Im pretty sure he's not disatisfied because I didnt come with practiced skill. Enthusiasm can make up for a lot!

But emotions do control our lives. We do what we do (for the most part) because it makes us happy (I married my wife because it made us happy, I teach because it makes me happy, I run because it makes me happy, I avoid my parrents as much as possible because being around them make me unhappy, I volunteer at a Woman's Shelter and soup kitchen because it makes me happy). If I was to take everything that made someone happy away from them, they almost deffinately would spiral down into deep depressoin. My thought are you did not spiral because you still had enough joy in your life to keep you healthy. But if somone took away everything that gave you joy, could you still be happy?
having things in your life that you enjoy is not bad. I can make myself happy. Does that mean I don't do things I enjoy? no. Is everything that makes you happy good for you? no. Just because something doesn't work out the way you want it to does that mean you have to be unhappy? no.

Im not saying that sex is all that a relationship is about. But saving it for the person you love and marry is saving the most intimate thing you can do.

Yes, but when you say things like saving yourself for marriage is the greatest gift you can give a person, you can understand why it sounds like you're making the whole crux of the relationship about the sex.

And I disagree about sex being the most intimate thing you can give to someone. Perhaps that was true once, but in today's society it no longer is. When sex can be used as a weapon on both side of the spectrum, from those who make it meaningless to those who would regulate people's lives by it, then it is no longer intimate. It is a tool. To return it to that level of intimacy, if such a thing were possible, both sides would have to agree to lay it down and neither one is going to do that.

Again, I believe the most intimate thing you can do for another person is to truly commit to them. To voluntarily give up a portion of your life and your freedom because you can not conceive of your continued existance without that person is a far more intimate and profoundly life changing moment than a sexual exchange. Sex may be used to physically demonstrate that committment, but it is not required to and doesn't not always equate to that.


If you are having thoughts of what it would be like with someone else, and you are thinking that you are missing something then you do not truely love the person you are with, and you are missing the point of sex altogether.

Gosh, that's a bit harsh, don't you think? To make a blanket statement that someone who's been married to someone for 30 years, held their hand while they died of lung cancer, cleaned their shit so they didn't lay in their own filth while they were dying and too weak to move and prayed with them every night until they drew their last breath didn't love someone because they admit that they always wondered what someone else would be like in bed. I'll be sure to let my aunt know that you've decided she didn't love her husband and was missing the point of sex because, bascially, you say so.


It isnt about getting the biggest kick. Its making love to the person you love, being able to express that what cant be said.

No, it's not. It's about understanding what you're doing, what you're saying and what you mean by your actions. Holding someone's hand can be far more intimate than "saving yourself" a thousand times for them and until you understand that, I find it hard to believe you understand love yourself in anything more than a purely abstract, fairy tale way.

And also.... you dont have to be naive to be a virgin. Guys talk about liking experience....but because I dont have any bad experiences, NO sexual act has any stigma attached to it....so..... Im pretty sure he's not disatisfied because I didnt come with practiced skill. Enthusiasm can make up for a lot!

I'm happy to hear that both you and your husband ended up sexually enthusastic for each other, because you never know until you actually experience it. But, you ran the gauntlet and came out the other side a winner. You should buy a lottery ticket next ;-)

I love that quote, I just have one problem with how it is used. It is talking about agape or brotherly love, not eros or romantic love so can actually be applied to relationships with everyone not just marriage.
sure it can, and since you want to apply it that way it makes it even more important to have self control in everyday life.
patience is not a human nature sort of thing,, it is learned and requires a lot of self control (believe me with a 2 year old and a 4 year old I am learning just how hard it is to teach)

I'm happy to hear that both you and your husband ended up sexually enthusastic for each other, because you never know until you actually experience it. But, you ran the gauntlet and came out the other side a winner. You should buy a lottery ticket next ;-)

My wife and I are swingers. And yet we not only have hot sex, we have an incredibly strong relationship.

Maybe it's because we're incredibly secure in our honesty and trust - and aren't basing our relationship solely on sex.

I waited until my wedding day to have sex. My husband did not come into marriage a virgin like I did....but the fact that we waited anyway led him to have a higher respect and esteem for me. I became different and far more precious than any other woman that he had been with.

Also... I think waiting allowed us to really anticipate and value the relationship we experienced after we were married. And I will never buy any of that nonsense about not being able to find someone you are sexually compatible with unless you do it first. My husband and I were able to grow together into a place where we are both satisfied and happy. If you truly are in sync with a person enough to marry them, I dont think you will find sex difficult or unsatisfying after the fact!

And look.... all my sexual memories and experiences are with the man I will spend the rest of my life with. Can you ever know how valuable that is to him? Its the most precious gift I ever could give him. I would give almost anything to know the same of him!

And also.... you dont have to be naive to be a virgin. Guys talk about liking experience....but because I dont have any bad experiences, NO sexual act has any stigma attached to it....so..... Im pretty sure he's not disatisfied because I didnt come with practiced skill. Enthusiasm can make up for a lot!


that certainly is good reasoning.i had a friend who said she wasnt going to have sex before marraige cos 'virginity was a special gift for her husband'.oh how i laughed.if virginity was a gift then having sex with a virgin would make you a virgin.people like that annoy me,if you're going to believe something you should at least try to have a good reason for doing so.

having things in your life that you enjoy is not bad. I can make myself happy. Does that mean I don't do things I enjoy? no. Is everything that makes you happy good for you? no.

I hate to sound smug, but I have actually yet to find something that made me happy that wasn't good for me.

Just because something doesn't work out the way you want it to does that mean you have to be unhappy? no.

For me, having things not work out deffinately decreases my happiness. It does not necesarliy make me unhappy, but if enought things didn't work out (a la Book of Job) I would have be unhappy.

"Again, I believe the most intimate thing you can do for another person is to truly commit to them. To voluntarily give up a portion of your life and your freedom because you can not conceive of your continued existance without that person is a far more intimate and profoundly life changing moment than a sexual exchange. Sex may be used to physically demonstrate that committment, but it is not required to and doesn't not always equate to that."

That is what you are doing when you abstain until marriage... voluntarily giving up a portion of your life and freedom....you are just doing in before you even know the person you will marry because you know that one day the right person will come along and you can say, "I waited for you because I knew I would love you and wanted to KNOW only you."

My wife and I are swingers. And yet we not only have hot sex, we have an incredibly strong relationship.

Maybe it's because we're incredibly secure in our honesty and trust - and aren't basing our relationship solely on sex.

That's cool. The risk is that one will fall in love with one of your partners. But if your turst and honesty is truly powerful enough to overcome that hurdle (and you get tested regularily) then that sounds like an excellent relationship for you. I hope it brings you love and satisfaction at the same time.

I hate to sound smug, but I have actually yet to find something that made me happy that wasn't good for me.



For me, having things not work out deffinately decreases my happiness. It does not necesarliy make me unhappy, but if enought things didn't work out (a la Book of Job) I would have be unhappy.
I thought that doing drugs made me happy and it turns out they weren't good for me. When you are in the situation it is difficult to be objective.

actually I find comfort in God through the story of Job, sometimes bad stuff happens and you know what God still loves you. ;)

patience is not a human nature sort of thing,, it is learned and requires a lot of self control (believe me with a 2 year old and a 4 year old I am learning just how hard it is to teach)

Actually for me patience is a very human thing. Does it make me happy to yell at my wife? No, so I don't do it :) Patience is all about thinking long term.

That's cool. The risk is that one will fall in love with one of your partners. But if your turst and honesty is truly powerful enough to overcome that hurdle (and you get tested regularily) then that sounds like an excellent relationship for you. I hope it brings you love and satisfaction at the same time.

It's been a long time now, and we have never had trust or honesty or jealousy issues. Nor have we ever had feelings of love (as opposed to pure sex) for anyone else.

And we get tested regularly.

That is what you are doing when you abstain until marriage...

No, that is what YOU are doing when you abstain until married. What I'm doing is completely different and what someone else does is different still. Given the diversity of God's creation, it is a mistake to make a blanket statement like that. We all have different experiences that have made us who we are today.


voluntarily giving up a portion of your life and freedom....you are just doing in before you even know the person you will marry because you know that one day the right person will come along and you can say, "I waited for you because I knew I would love you and wanted to KNOW only you."

And what if they don't come along? People die alone. Even when there are other people in the room, so many people still die alone.

I dont think its necessary to not have sex until marriage... but I think its wise. Im saving myself a whole lot of hassle, heartache and stress. And I think discipline and self control are valuable traits to master. I just dont think you can really argue against waiting....there are no real cons if you can do it.

If you cant, and you find yourself having sex before marriage, that's your choice, but you are going to have to live with the future consequences.

Ever feel jealous of another woman? Well, imagine the person that is the most important to you in the world sharing intimate moments with another woman. Its not nice. I'd rather I didnt have to deal with that, and Im thankful my husband doesnt. The world is full of potential problems and marriage breakers... why add to the list?

Actually for me patience is a very human thing. Does it make me happy to yell at my wife? No, so I don't do it :) Patience is all about thinking long term.
human nature isn't to be patient though, you weren't born with patience. human nature is in fact to be impatient, you ever met a patient newborn at 2 in the morning when they are ready to eat??
Through your experience you have learned to be patient. It still takes self control.

I dont think its necessary to not have sex until marriage... but I think its wise. Im saving myself a whole lot of hassle, heartache and stress. And I think discipline and self control are valuable traits to master. I just dont think you can really argue against waiting....there are no real cons if you can do it.

If you cant, and you find yourself having sex before marriage, that's your choice, but you are going to have to live with the future consequences.

Ever feel jealous of another woman? Well, imagine the person that is the most important to you in the world sharing intimate moments with another woman. Its not nice. I'd rather I didnt have to deal with that, and Im thankful my husband doesnt. The world is full of potential problems and marriage breakers... why add to the list?

My wife and I get off on watching each other have sex with others.

Not a spot of jealousy in sight.

If anything, our relationship got FAR stronger after we started swinging.

So what if you die without meeting "the right one" and never having sex. You talk about sex not being everything... so why not go without it?

Its great and its fun and I like it and I treasure it.... but I could live without out it.

And I appologize, but I think you know I meant that when A PERSON waits until marriage.... not YOU in particular.

My wife and I get off on watching each other have sex with others.

Not a spot of jealousy in sight.

If anything, our relationship got FAR stronger after we started swinging.

That's nice for you. Im personally better off without having to deal with that situation... but if you feel that you can share real intimacy with your wife while indulging in that behavior.... that's your call. Obviously not everyone could say the same.....

I dont think its necessary to not have sex until marriage... but I think its wise. Im saving myself a whole lot of hassle, heartache and stress. And I think discipline and self control are valuable traits to master. I just dont think you can really argue against waiting....there are no real cons if you can do it.

If you cant, and you find yourself having sex before marriage, that's your choice, but you are going to have to live with the future consequences.

And that smugness is exactly why I mistrust your opinion.


Ever feel jealous of another woman? Well, imagine the person that is the most important to you in the world sharing intimate moments with another woman. Its not nice. I'd rather I didnt have to deal with that, and Im thankful my husband doesnt. The world is full of potential problems and marriage breakers... why add to the list?

Because people are the sum total of their experiences. If you have no experience...

nope, marriage only, and only with the person you are married to!

Im not smug. Dont know where you got smug from. Im enjoying the benefits of my "experience" in waiting.... not saying Im perfect or life has no problems or everyone else is wrong. Just saying I made a choice, and I have an opinion, and its gone well for me.

waiting is an experience in itself.... I dont like the insinuation that I am nothing because I came to marriage without sexual experience

That's nice for you. Im personally better off without having to deal with that situation... but if you feel that you can share real intimacy with your wife while indulging in that behavior.... that's your call. Obviously not everyone could say the same.....

I'll take this opportunity to point out that, yes you're right. Everyone has different sexual turn ons. That's why you should experiment with each other before marriage to discover if you have incompatible turn ons. What if your husband realized he liked swinging after you'd married him. You'd never know it ahead of time because you two never had sex together. He might not even have known it until you two were having sex and he started to fantaize about it so he could not tell you ahead of time. Anyway, I think I've ran that point into the ground, but no one ever seems to respond to it lol so I keep at it.

So what if you die without meeting "the right one" and never having sex. You talk about sex not being everything... so why not go without it?[quote]

Because, if you'll remember, I also talk about sex being a fundamental part of the human experience. How sad to go without one of the most joyous things we are capable of for your entire life, just because you never met the right person. I could do without my arms and legs, but I certainly like having them there and they add so much to my day.


Its great and its fun and I like it and I treasure it.... but I could live without out it.

Great. Good for you.


And I appologize, but I think you know I meant that when A PERSON waits until marriage.... not YOU in particular.

No, obviously I didn't, and obviously you failed to note my point. That people are different and are the total of their experience and that they react differently because of this. To say one person is not "as intimate" with another because they had premarital sex is not only arrogant in the extreme, but frankly wrong.

Im not smug. Dont know where you got smug from. Im enjoying the benefits of my "experience" in waiting.... not saying Im perfect or life has no problems or everyone else is wrong. Just saying I made a choice, and I have an opinion, and its gone well for me.

waiting is an experience in itself.... I dont like the insinuation that I am nothing because I came to marriage without sexual experience

Then perhaps you shouldn't insinuate that others aren't as intimate because they came to marriage with sexual experience.

This is pointless. I'm done.

That's nice for you. Im personally better off without having to deal with that situation... but if you feel that you can share real intimacy with your wife while indulging in that behavior.... that's your call. Obviously not everyone could say the same.....

What's reasonable is what two people can honestly agree on in their relationship.

Forcing your partner to participate in swinging when they are against it is a bad thing.

Expecting your partner to be a virgin before marriage when they aren't into that is a bad thing.

Expecting a partner to live without sex because the other partner doesn't like it anymore is a bad thing.

There are MANY married men and women that we've seen who are swinging without their partners - without their partner's knowledge. I see that as a bad thing, but not from our end of things - it's their life that is screwed up and they are the ones with the honesty problem. I can't tell you how many times I've heard, "I'm here because my partner won't have sex with me."

Not because the partner can't - it's because the partner thinks that sex is dirty.

nope, marriage only, and only with the person you are married to!
Oh, good point. ;)

With all my p.....heart :fluffle:

w00teh

BerkylvaniaYetAgain

Would you tell your wife/husband " I sometimes wonder what It would be like to have sex with someone else, to se how it would feel, to see if they could do anything different in bed... you know, if it would feel any better than it does with you " ?

That to me says that you do not love that person.


God gave sex as a gift for a married man and woman to share. It is only something that should be shared in the union of marriage. it is not only about sharing that gift, but it is also symbolic. it is about perfect unity.

It is not hard to bring back the intimacy back, it is down to eacho person. you dont need everyone to reach that at the same time.

Why do you have such a problem with saving it for the one person?

BerkylvaniaYetAgain

Would you tell your wife/husband " I sometimes wonder what It would be like to have sex with someone else, to se how it would feel, to see if they could do anything different in bed... you know, if it would feel any better than it does with you " ?

That to me says that you do not love that person.


God gave sex as a gift for a married man and woman to share. It is only something that should be shared in the union of marriage. it is not only about sharing that gift, but it is also symbolic. it is about perfect unity.

It is not hard to bring back the intimacy back, it is down to eacho person. you dont need everyone to reach that at the same time.

Why do you have such a problem with saving it for the one person?


Just because someone has the urge to have sex with another person does not mean that the person with the urge "loves" that other person.

Sexual desire does not equate with love in all cases. In fact, history shows that many times, sex has nothing to do with love.

Why do you have such a problem acknowledging that sometimes the two are separate concepts?

BerkylvaniaYetAgain

Would you tell your wife/husband " I sometimes wonder what It would be like to have sex with someone else, to se how it would feel, to see if they could do anything different in bed... you know, if it would feel any better than it does with you " ?


What that is, is honesty, and not having been single long enough to go into a relationship without regret of having missed out on life.

What that is, is honesty, and not having been single long enough to go into a relationship without regret of having missed out on life.

I have a relationship, and I don't miss out on anything, either.

I have a relationship, and I don't miss out on anything, either.
That's true, best of both worlds in a way. I also liked to watch one of my partners with other people. However, he left me for one of them. . . So, I'm a little hestient to do that kind of thing again.

I believe in sex before marriage. I also believe in marriage before the drinks are served.

I dont have a problem sepereting the two things. this thread is about whether we agree with sex before marriage or not. I am just stating my reasons againts.

My relationship with my girlfriend does not involve sex at all. we only kiss and cuddle. So i know that it is not the most important thing. But as i just said, i am giving my reasons for why sex should be saved for marriage.

I personaly never have thoughts for anyone else. What is in your heart is who you are. so if you think about sex with anyone other than the person you love, you really do have to wonder if you really do love them or not.

and that comment does not mean that the love and sex go hand in hand, but sex is something that should only be shared with the person you love, and if you are thinking about sex with other people, you must not truely be in love with the one person. because you are wanting more than they are giving you.

No, it's just a theory. No one's proven it! The damn prenuptialists keep repeating it's a "scientific fact", but everyone knows that the Bible says that sex happens ONLY in marriage.

We should have only "sex in marriage" education in school, or that the theory of sex before marriage would only be an alternative, because no one's proved it to be true.

The fact that I've witnessed it first... uhm... p---- :D ... err... hand .... doesn't count, it'd be just an anecdote. It's something that happens in movies only, anyway.

Sex should not be about fullfilling a desire, but all about making love.

BerkylvaniaYetAgain

Would you tell your wife/husband " I sometimes wonder what It would be like to have sex with someone else, to se how it would feel, to see if they could do anything different in bed... you know, if it would feel any better than it does with you " ?

That to me says that you do not love that person.


God gave sex as a gift for a married man and woman to share. It is only something that should be shared in the union of marriage. it is not only about sharing that gift, but it is also symbolic. it is about perfect unity.

It is not hard to bring back the intimacy back, it is down to eacho person. you dont need everyone to reach that at the same time.

Why do you have such a problem with saving it for the one person?
You seem to equate sex with love. They're not equivalent. You can love someone without having sex with them, and you can have sex with them without loving them.

Do you beleive in sex before marriage? :fluffle:
I don't see what's so all-important about marriage anyway.

I am not equating sex with love. I am saying that sex is making love to the person you love, and should only be shared with the person you love. you cannot make love to some one you do not love, making it purely for pleasure.

It's you guys that are not able to differentiate the two if you are not understanding what I am saying.

Unless you live in Canada, Spain or the Netherlands.

Whoever made that legal should be jump off a cliff, land a a pike and be burnt until dead.

Whoever made that legal should be jump off a cliff, land a a pike and be burnt until dead.
That or praised ... I am going with that

If it works for Thomas Jefferson, it's good enough for me.

Whoever made that legal should be jump off a cliff, land a a pike and be burnt until dead. No. If it was made by a majority vote, that would be quite a large section of the countries, and Western countries are soon going to get population declines that will negatively effect old people. So, that's a bad idea.

Whoever made that legal should be jump off a cliff, land a a pike and be burnt until dead.

How about British Jimmy jumps on a cock and rides it until it cums instead? I think he wants to.

Definately - it's the time to enjoy it.
Once you're married there's hardly time or energy for it :p
Starry

There are MANY married men and women that we've seen who are swinging without their partners - without their partner's knowledge. I see that as a bad thing, but not from our end of things - it's their life that is screwed up and they are the ones with the honesty problem. I can't tell you how many times I've heard, "I'm here because my partner won't have sex with me."

Not because the partner can't - it's because the partner thinks that sex is dirty.

(a) That is something that should be worked out between the two in the relationship. If they cannot work it out, the relationship should end. Someone cannot make excuses for deliberately deceiving and hurting another person.

(b) It is just as bad from your end. You are participating in the deception as surely as the cheater is. Do you think that the person who drives a getaway car for a bank robber or who knowingly buys stolen property is not committing a crime?

Edit: Maybe not "just as bad," but just "bad". In the analogy, the cheater is like the bank robber - committing the actual crime. You are simply an enabler, like the driver.

and that comment does not mean that the love and sex go hand in hand, but sex is something that should only be shared with the person you love, and if you are thinking about sex with other people, you must not truely be in love with the one person. because you are wanting more than they are giving you.

If you honestly think that being in love with something makes your entire life all hunky dory and you never even consider what it might be like if your life were different, you have a lot to learn about love and life.

Edit: Meanwhile, being curious about things does not mean that you want more. I am curious as to what my best friend looks like naked. That doesn't mean I want to see her naked. I am curious about what it would be like to be a man. That doesn't mean I want to be a man, or feel that I am missing out on life by not being a man.

See?

How about British Jimmy jumps on a cock and rides it until it cums instead? I think he wants to.

You creepy sicko.

Definately - it's the time to enjoy it.
Once you're married there's hardly time or energy for it :p
Starry :confused: Eh? You're in the same house and all.

You creepy sicko.
Naw don’t worry you can get married now so it wont be outside of wedlock

Naw don’t worry you can get married now so it wont be outside of wedlock

Now now, if he wants to do it outside of wedlock, that's okay. We can make an exception for him, I mean STDs have to be given to someone after all.

no
someone asked me if protection was used what consequences could there be. I was pointing out that in addition to pregnancy and disease that there could also be emotional and spiritual consequences as well.
What would be the difference regarding those consequences in a long-term unmarried relationship vs marriage?

What would be the difference regarding those consequences in a long-term unmarried relationship vs marriage?

Not to answer for Smunkee, but to add in my own two-cents....

As far as I am concerned, a long-term relationship is a marriage. If you have made the commitment to that person to spend the rest of your lives together, you are married. The paper is a legal thing, and has little to do with your actual relationship. The ceremony, whether it be in a church or not, is more for other people than for the couple involved - it is a way of including the community in your decision to spend the rest of your lives together.

If two people simply talk to each other and decide to do so, it is every bit as much a marriage as two people who go to a courthouse or church to do it.

If you honestly think that being in love with something makes your entire life all hunky dory and you never even consider what it might be like if your life were different, you have a lot to learn about love and life.

Edit: Meanwhile, being curious about things does not mean that you want more. I am curious as to what my best friend looks like naked. That doesn't mean I want to see her naked. I am curious about what it would be like to be a man. That doesn't mean I want to be a man, or feel that I am missing out on life by not being a man.

See?

I didn't say that, and I'm not sure where you got that from... maybe you read another post and got it mixed up.

What drives the curiousity? what triggers the desire to see what you cant see? to want what you do not have?

Its a disatisfaction with what you do have. why do people look at porn? because they are disatisfied with what they have, why do thieves steal? because they want more. what do rapists, rape ? because they desire what they dont have.

whats the trigger? whats the cause? if you have something and you want something else. I would say disatisfaction. but you will probably say something else. seems as every other point I have made here has been missunderstood.

I will summerise with this: the meaning behind making love has been lost. And it seems most people don't want to know about it.

The "try it before you buy it" metaphore/comparision is the most evil tripe I have ever heard in my life. Soory, but it is. It is a nice convenient justification to make people feel better for going against a societal taboo.
Evil... wow that's a strong word. Learning about ANY decision by 'trying' it out first is a great way to make and informed choice... especially if that choice is as significant as marriage.
If you DON'T try it first there are lots of good things that happen.
For one: You don't have anything to campare your sexlife too. because you didn't have one before.
Great. You must love vacationing in the living room, no sense going to another place or even down the road... if you don't know other places are there then the living room can be pretty stimulating. Let's have a nice meal of crusty bread, cause it tastes great when you never get to taste anything else. We can talk about that one book you have on your shelf... why read anything else since you committed to buying THAT book.

Call these extreme analogies, but the sentiment is EXACTLY the same. Life IS about variety and experience. It's not about feeling all good about yourself because you dared to make one big choice to get married and have never again had to worry since... THAT is evil, THAT is a sin, wasting the life that God gave you by not constantly striving to further enrich your life and the lives of those around you.
Two: Husband and wife get to learn TOGETHER and grow even closer in the learning.
What better way to learn from one another than by having something to base that imparted knowledge upon... or would you like to discuss nuclear physics together and then we can build a nice fusion reactor to help solve the energy problems of the world, who needs teachers and books and practice?
Three: There is no competing with past lovers. IE no jealousy.
Jealousy is part of who we are as humans, it's a base emotion and pretending it won't appear if there is no past lover is ignorant and irresponsible. Learning to deal with jealousy tempers the bonds in a relationship into chains that can survive petty comparisons to past lovers.
Four: Sex becomes something even more special, even more intimate because it is rarer. You know, the rarer the diamond, the more it is worth?
I prefer to liken sex to food than to a cold rock... sure it tastes great when you get to eat something rare, but every meal is something I consider special - it keeps me alive, healthy, and happy.
Fifth: There is always the nice bonus of no STDs :)
Granted. Eriadhin 1 - Buhumpat 4. Of course careful responsible people should have little fear of this anyway, and personally those are the types of people I would seek out when consenting to sex.
Six: There is no background guilt. Try to deny it but I'll bet most people do have some residual guilt, even the so called modern ones.
Guilt... about...? The only guilt in sex should be "we should have done this sooner!" Society imposes the guilt, makes a healthy sex life seem like a crime. Lying about it, cheating, hurting someone... sure THAT would cause guilt, but none of that should exist in an open trusting relationship.
In other words, Marriage is the institution in which we become better people. It is the school of unselfishness, the classroom of love, the college of unity.

Wow. Just... wow. Marriage is ALL about selfishness - requiring your committed parter remain yours regardless of what life's discovery brings about, keeping them bound to you, unable to make choices without you. I'm not saying these are necessarily BAD qualities in a relationship, but at its essence marriage is about fear and selfishness and distrust, otherwise you could happily live in a 'married' state and know that your partner will come home because they want to, not because you both signed a contract. Are you saying unmarried people cannot "become better people" if they are living in sin out of wedlock, or at least not as "better" as a married couple?

I didn't say that, and I'm not sure where you got that from... maybe you read another post and got it mixed up.

Yes, you did. You basically said that if your partner is not giving you everything you could possibly want, you are not in love with them. This is an incredibly naive statement. Being in love doesn't mean that everything about your partner is satisfying. It doesn't mean that you never argue with that person or wish that they saw things your way or that they didn't have that annoying little habit that drives you crazy. Being in love doesn't mean that your partner does everything you could possibly want in bed and you never even think about what other things might be like.

Being in love means that you accept that person for the person that they are, even with all of the little things that maybe, taken separately, you don't like. It is despite the problems that you love someone, not because they aren't there.

What drives the curiousity? what triggers the desire to see what you cant see? to want what you do not have?

Curiosity != desire.

Like I said, I am curious about what it would be like to be a man. I don't want to be a man.

Its a disatisfaction with what you do have. why do people look at porn? because they are disatisfied with what they have,

Hardly. Many people look at porn specifically because they are satisfied with what they have, and the two can get in the mood faster by watching others.

I will summerise with this: the meaning behind making love has been lost. And it seems most people don't want to know about it.

Some people don't bother with making love. I pity these people, as I think it is one of the greatest experiences one can have.

However, that has nothing to do with your silly suggestion that curiosity about experiences you have not had means that you are not in love with someone.

I consider all the time what my life might have been like if I had made different decisions - even in the cases where I am certain that I made the right decisions. Does that mean I hate my life? Of course not! It means that I enjoy hypotheticals. I enjoy wondering what might have been different.

Do you beleive in sex before marriage? :fluffle:
I believe getting married before you have sex with that partner is completely and utterly wrong, and I believe somebody who does that is showing disrespect toward themselves, their partner, and their supposed relationship.

-snip-

Wow. Just... wow. Marriage is ALL about selfishness - requiring your committed parter remain yours regardless of what life's discovery brings about, keeping them bound to you, unable to make choices without you. I'm not saying these are necessarily BAD qualities in a relationship, but at its essence marriage is about fear and selfishness and distrust, otherwise you could happily live in a 'married' state and know that your partner will come home because they want to, not because you both signed a contract. Are you saying unmarried people cannot "become better people" if they are living in sin out of wedlock, or at least not as "better" as a married couple?

Ball and chain, anyone?
Wow. What a view of marriage and commitment.

I guess my wife and I must be doing it all wrong. She has male friends that she hangs out with, and I don't tell her when she can see them, or when she has to come home. As long as she is safe, where-ever she is, that is what I care about. And I know she will always come home to me.

Also, we were both "experienced" before marriage, but there are things she does with me that she never did before, not even with her first husband, because she loves me. She didn't event want his name, but she happily uses mine...The point is, experience did not add anything to our sex lives. If you are not in love, you are probably not going to trust your partner enough to try everything on your mind.

Marriage is a safe place, not a scary one. Or at least, it shouldn't be scary. Unless you have scary toe-claws like I have. ;) :fluffle:

No, I don't, because it's a sin. However, I also don't believe in imposing morality on others. If others want to sin, that's their own business.
Why is it bad? officialy a sin maybe but in the modern day with contraception and health clinics etc whats bad about the sin? other than christ said so ellegedly.

What would be the difference regarding those consequences in a long-term unmarried relationship vs marriage?
there have been studies done that show that unmarried couples break up more often than people who are married, I will have to find one to link to later.
I don't really have another answer right now though, other than for me sex outside of marriage seems pointless and just wrong.

I believe getting married before you have sex with that partner is completely and utterly wrong, and I believe somebody who does that is showing disrespect toward themselves, their partner, and their supposed relationship.
wow. disrespectful? really? how so?

I just thought of this:

In most places, one cannot marry another person of the same sex. Therefore, most same-sex couples must have sex before marriage if they are to have sex at all. And I would not like to impose a double-standard on male-female couples - so, let them have sex before marriage too, if they want. Marriage is just an artificial tradition that other species certainly don't require, physically or psychologically.

Ball and chain, anyone?
Wow. What a view of marriage and commitment.

I guess my wife and I must be doing it all wrong. She has male friends that she hangs out with, and I don't tell her when she can see them, or when she has to come home. As long as she is safe, where-ever she is, that is what I care about. And I know she will always come home to me.
The first question is, do you think it is because you are married that you know she will always come home to you or because you know she loves you and wants to come home regardless of the ring? Would that be any different if you were NOT married?

Also, we were both "experienced" before marriage, but there are things she does with me that she never did before, not even with her first husband, because she loves me. She didn't event want his name, but she happily uses mine...The point is, experience did not add anything to our sex lives. If you are not in love, you are probably not going to trust your partner enough to try everything on your mind.

Marriage is a safe place, not a scary one. Or at least, it shouldn't be scary. Unless you have scary toe-claws like I have. ;) :fluffle:
The second question is, if your experiences before marriage did not add anything sexually to your lives, do you think you experienced enough before making such a solomn commitment? Do you trust your wife enough, if she came to you and said she wanted to experience something you could not give her, to let her try it? If not, is it the implications of marriage that make you unable to trust, or your own selfishness? Are you arrogant enough to believe that you can be everything your partner needs, regardless of what they may say they need?

These are tough questions to ask, and the gut reaction by most everyone here is going to be denial and reassurance that marriage is enough for them... if you feel that way, look at the questions again - explore your life a little and dig up every 'what if' you've ever had. Could you let your partner explore whatever they wanted with whomever they wanted, no matter how unrealistic it is they would actually do so? How certain are you that deep down they might not be longing for something like that, especially if you are the only partner they have known? Pre-marital sex increases the chances that your partner has indeed experienced much of what they need inside.

I'm not trying to put marriage down entirely, as a whole it IS a wonderful thing and done right it creates a wonderful atmosphere of love. I'm simply pushing the boundaries of "If you DON'T have pre-marital sex, or even if you had some, are you being honest with yourself that you have experienced life to the fullest".

I'm sick to death of so many people considering sex a sin, quite the opposite it is the closest you or I will likely ever get to touching God on Earth. For a few moments your soul and the soul of your partner join to become something much bigger than either of you can be alone. It enriches our lives in ways we are afraid to admit yet we fear it, we say save it for one person and then never share it with another person again. How is it wrong to want to spread such joy? How many fights, heartaches, and broken families could have been spared if we as a people stopped sticking our collective noses in peoples personal business and stopped caring about when somebody slept with who?

I'm sick to death of so many people considering sex a sin, quite the opposite it is the closest you or I will likely ever get to touching God on Earth. For a few moments your soul and the soul of your partner join to become something much bigger than either of you can be alone.
To be honest, I am sick to death of this stupid dichotomy. Sex isn't a sin, and it's also not a way to "touch God" or any such thing. Sex is sex. It is a way that human body parts can smoosh together. It can be wonderful, horrible, mediocre, and everything in between. Sex is not the end-all and be-all of human interaction, and it's also not some gateway to Hell.


It enriches our lives in ways we are afraid to admit yet we fear it, we say save it for one person and then never share it with another person again. How is it wrong to want to spread such joy? How many fights, heartaches, and broken families could have been spared if we as a people stopped sticking our collective noses in peoples personal business and stopped caring about when somebody slept with who?
This much I can agree with. The most important thing to remember is that what you, individually, think about sex is irrelevant to everybody other than you and the person(s) you are fucking. If you think sex is dirty and sinful, fine, it can be to you...but don't waste your time telling other people they're going to Hell for not being prudish enough. If you think sex is some gateway to Heaven, fine, it can be to you...but don't waste your time shouting at other people to "lighten up" and screw like bunnies. Think what you want, and have whatever kind of sex you want (so long as all parties are consenting), just quit expecting other people to care.

And for pity's sake, quit building sex up so much. If you define yourself by how much sex you are or are not having then you've got a lot of growing up to do before you should be having sex with ANYBODY.