NationStates Jolt Archive

Portuguese tv premiered recently an adaptation of the american show "Queer eye for a straight guy". What one seems to get there is a group of gay men carrying out a extensive change of the public image of an heterossexual man. From clothing to home decoration, nearly everything comes under a relentless analysis that strives to conform several stereotypical aspects of "straight" life-slobness, lack of a fashion sense, etc-to a socially aceptable pattern. This pattern is defined-apparently at least-by gay culture, which was, at least until a short time ago, a subterranean culture. Does this mean that "gayness"-or what one associates with gay culture-has become the norm, while what one usualy perceived as the dominant world view-"manliness"-has become a "deviant" cultural trait?

The way I see it its not so much that "gay culture" has gone mainstream as that the media has realized that gays often exemplify (even exagerrerate) "female culture". This explains why gays attract girls like rotting meat attracts flies. It also explains why the media is interested in shows featuring gays: they know it will appeal to a substantial audience.

Gays are hip.

Well to balance that out there was a show called "Straight plan for the Gay Man" on Comedy central where straight guys would help very gay men act more manly by changing their wardrobe, redecorating their homes and getting them into manly hobbies.

Because it's fun to be camp, so the TV producers decide to be for a while.

What? It is fun. I'm acting camp now, and it's confusing my friends. :D

Well to balance that out there was a show called "Straight plan for the Gay Man" on Comedy central where straight guys would help very gay men act more manly by changing their wardrobe, redecorating their homes and getting them into manly hobbies.

The possiblities are endless with this idea.

How about "Modern plan for the Amish man"?

The possiblities are endless with this idea.

How about "Modern plan for the Amish man"?
Been done. Called "Amish in the city" or something. Amish young adults videotaped as they lived among normal city dwellers.

No

That parody is ridiculous, lol. We already have plenty of hobbies.

Gays are hip.

Yeah... you know girls often want to go clothes shopping with me... they say I'm better matching colors, and better shopping with in general... heheh..

Yeah, I am a camp, stereotypical gay guy... some people just need help with their fashion sense, and overall living style. To mention, I have to go check out Hollister (one of my favorite stores) if they opened yet in the mall.

Look, to care about one self does not mean you have to be into gay life. I've seen straight men take care of themselves (society calls them metrosexuals - which is a misnomer because metrosexuality is not a sexual orientation).

Been done. Called "Amish in the city" or something. Amish young adults videotaped as they lived among normal city dwellers.

...

OK, now i'm utterly convinced that someone is spying on my brain.

What about "Brown Eye for the Rich Guy"? I bet nobody has thought of that one. :D

...

OK, now i'm utterly convinced that someone is spying on my brain.

What about "Brown Eye for the Rich Guy"? I bet nobody has thought of that one. :D
Browneye? does it have something to do with anal?

*chuckles* No, I would say that gays aren't becoming the new "in-crowd."

That's sort of like saying black people became the new in-crowd when rap became popul--... oh wait.

Well, maybe certain stereotypes are becoming easier to swallow by the society at large. I think we have a long way to go before teenage boys acquire a decent dress sense and act camp to be 'cool' though.

Browneye? does it have something to do with anal?

Nah. It's just "mooning", or baring your butt.

That parody is ridiculous, lol. We already have plenty of hobbies.



Yeah... you know girls often want to go clothes shopping with me... they say I'm better matching colors, and better shopping with in general... heheh..

Yeah, I am a camp, stereotypical gay guy... some people just need help with their fashion sense, and overall living style. To mention, I have to go check out Hollister (one of my favorite stores) if they opened yet in the mall.

Look, to care about one self does not mean you have to be into gay life. I've seen straight men take care of themselves (society calls them metrosexuals - which is a misnomer because metrosexuality is not a sexual orientation).

Metrosexuality may not be a sexual orientation, but from my understanding it is a sexual strategy. The reason guys become metrosexual is in many cases to attract women. Otherwise its not really "metrosexual" so much as just overly feminine.

Metrosexuality may not be a sexual orientation, but from my understanding it is a sexual strategy. The reason guys become metrosexual is in many cases to attract women. Otherwise its not really "metrosexual" so much as just overly feminine.

Eh, metrosexuals are still heterosexuals. And I still think it is a misnomer.

And to clear one thing up, just because I take care of myself (my skin, my hair), and because I have a nice dress sense.. means I'm feminine?

*chuckles* No, I would say that gays aren't becoming the new "in-crowd."

That's sort of like saying black people became the new in-crowd when rap became popul--... oh wait.

Well, maybe certain stereotypes are becoming easier to swallow by the society at large. I think we have a long way to go before teenage boys acquire a decent dress sense and act camp to be 'cool' though.

Just like we have a long way to go before kids start wearing baggy jeans and listening to rap to be "cool". Neither is a real majority, but there are probably only slightly fewer metros and preppy boys than there are "gangsta".

Metrosexuality may not be a sexual orientation, but from my understanding it is a sexual strategy. The reason guys become metrosexual is in many cases to attract women. Otherwise its not really "metrosexual" so much as just overly feminine.
yes, but metrossexuality doesnt equal homossexuality...metrossexuals are smart heterossexuals investing in the mating game...what one sees in these shows is that homossexual sexual orientation almost seems like a requirement for a fulffiling lifestyle.

Just like we have a long way to go before kids start wearing baggy jeans and listening to rap to be "cool". Neither is a real majority, but there are probably only slightly fewer metros and preppy boys than there are "gangsta".

It really depends on the area you live, I suppose. When I was at high school a couple of years back, the majority of the 'cool' kids were "wiggas".

Personally, camp makes me cringe as much as "gangsta" does. I swear, I must be some kind of gay mutant. I have terrible dress sense AND I can't dance.

what one sees in these shows is that homossexual sexual orientation almost seems like a requirement for a fulffiling lifestyle.

I have to vehemently disagree with that. Where was that ever suggested in the show? The guys that are helped don't become gay. In fact these shows were started to open minds... so people wouldn't hate us so much.

In fact these shows were started to open minds...

...through rampant stereotyping. :p

...through rampant stereotyping. :p

I don't really agree with that.

What is wrong with allowing camp gays, as myself, help straight men who are in need of a make-over?

I have to vehemently disagree with that. Where was that ever suggested in the show? The guys that are helped don't become gay. In fact these shows were started to open minds... so people wouldn't hate us so much.
Pardon, i used the term "fulfilling" out of context...i meant that such shows seemed to convey the message that a new kind of zeitgeist was emerging, based on homossexual values...and that to be able to fully integrate into modern cosmopolitan society one would have to adopt some traits of a homossexual cultural agenda,,,

I don't really agree with that.

What is wrong with allowing camp gays, as myself, help straight men who are in need of a make-over?

How about helping the gay men that need a make-over first? Seriously. You'd scream if you saw my wardrobe (it lives on the floor, mostly.) It even makes me concerned, sometimes.

I don't really agree with that.

What is wrong with allowing camp gays, as myself, help straight men who are in need of a make-over?

Okay, I guess I don't know any really camp gays personally then. When I saw that show, every character seemed to be a ridiculous stereotype when compared with the gay people I know.

I have to vehemently disagree with that. Where was that ever suggested in the show? The guys that are helped don't become gay. In fact these shows were started to open minds... so people wouldn't hate us so much.

While I agree with you that they add a personal face and attributes to the gay people in general, some of these shows also do establish a "this is the way to live, and you are fooling for not living this way" trend. They give some sort of social authority to the hosts, and people have their personal habits trodden upon.

In a way, the awkward, asocial guys are kind of ridiculed and looked down upon, when it is perfectly acceptable to be socially awkward, as long as you are comfortable with it.

It is kind of a shame that the shows associated with the gay lifestyle are so superficial.

Uhm.. NO!
Gays aren't bashed, beat, and ridiculed everyday becuase they are the "in crowd". Society is learing to accept all people more, but gays will probably never be the in crowd. We just tend to make our own social group.

Eh, metrosexuals are still heterosexuals. And I still think it is a misnomer.

And to clear one thing up, just because I take care of myself (my skin, my hair), and because I have a nice dress sense.. means I'm feminine?

First of all people can "take care of themselves" without being typified as metrosexual. I'd be willing to bet that huge amounts of effort go into perfecting the gangsta look, and we've all heard the jokes about wannabe hippies spending hours in the bathroom to get dreadlocks.

Second, not necessarily feminine in the biological sense (though there are definitely some elements of that) but in the cultural/stereotypical sense. Metro methods of "self care" as you put it may not be naturally feminine but they are associated with femininity in today's society. The reason most metros use said methods is because it allows them to better converse and identify with more stereotypical women, thus making them more likely to get sex.

Revasser, if you were in Los Angeles, I'd help you out. :)

Pardon, i used the term "fulfilling" out of context...i meant that such shows seemed to convey the message that a new kind of zeitgeist was emerging, based on homossexual values...and that to be able to fully integrate into modern cosmopolitan society one would have to adopt some traits of a homossexual cultural agenda,,,

There is always some secret dangerous agenda we have isn't there? :rolleyes: You are starting to sound like Pat Robertson.

Okay, I guess I don't know any really camp gays personally then. When I saw that show, every character seemed to be a ridiculous stereotype when compared with the gay people I know.

Well you are meeting one.. me.

While I agree with you that they add a personal face and attributes to the gay people in general, some of these shows also do establish a "this is the way to live, and you are fooling for not living this way" trend. They give some sort of social authority to the hosts, and people have their personal habits trodden upon.

In a way, the awkward, asocial guys are kind of ridiculed and looked down upon, when it is perfectly acceptable to be socially awkward, as long as you are comfortable with it.

First off, let me ask you this: If they don't want their ways changed, why did they volunteer to be part of the show (those straight men who need help)? No one is forcing them to send in their story. It isn't like these gay guys are going to different houses and forcing people to change. I find your comments quite ridiculous.

Uhm.. NO!
Gays aren't bashed, beat, and ridiculed everyday becuase they are the "in crowd". Society is learing to accept all people more, but gays will probably never be the in crowd. We just tend to make our own social group.

Depends on where you live and whether the "in crowd" is referring to women or men. Where I live it would be very difficult for gays to get attacked because they are constantly surrounded by popular girls. In other states/cities this may not be the case.

Revasser, if you were in Los Angeles, I'd help you out. :)



There is always some secret dangerous agenda we have isn't there? :rolleyes: You are starting to sound like Pat Robertson.



Well you are meeting one.. me.



First off, let me ask you this: If they don't want their ways changed, why did they volunteer to be part of the show (those straight men who need help)? No one is forcing them to send in their story. It isn't like these gay guys are going to different houses and forcing people to change. I find your comments quite ridiculous.
Ok, it seems that my grasp of the english language is letting me down today...that, or you´re intentionally miscontruing my words ;)
The word "agenda" didnt imply a secret conspiracy to overthrow heterossexual dominated-society; it just meant that theres an array of values associated with "gayness" -fashion-awareness, tidiness and such- that these shows seem to be happy to put forward as a sort of norm that should be adhered to.

Revasser, if you were in Los Angeles, I'd help you out. :)


I'll remember to look you up if I'm ever in the area ;)


It is kind of a shame that the shows associated with the gay lifestyle are so superficial.

"Queer as Folk" is pretty decent. There's not so much of the "ALL THE QUEENS PARTY AT THE CLUBS! WOOOO!!" stuff now. We get it on the Special Broadcast Service, over here. They play a lot of good stuff.

We're sexy, we're cute, We're popular to boot!
We're bitchin', great hair, the boys all love to stare!
We're wanted, we're hot, we're everything you're not!
We're pretty, we're cool, we dominate this world!

:rolleyes:

First of all people can "take care of themselves" without being typified as metrosexual. I'd be willing to bet that huge amounts of effort go into perfecting the gangsta look, and we've all heard the jokes about wannabe hippies spending hours in the bathroom to get dreadlocks.

Second, not necessarily feminine in the biological sense (though there are definitely some elements of that) but in the cultural/stereotypical sense. Metro methods of "self care" as you put it may not be naturally feminine but they are associated with femininity in today's society. The reason most metros use said methods is because it allows them to better converse and identify with more stereotypical women, thus making them more likely to get sex.

Great now I'm trying to justify myself to plenty of people at a time. I understand people an take care of themselve without being typified as metrosexuals.

I'm still a guy. In the cultural/stereotypical sense? I know they may be associated with femininity but I'm no less of a guy then any other guy out there.

Sergio, name something wrong with that?

First off, let me ask you this: If they don't want their ways changed, why did they volunteer to be part of the show (those straight men who need help)? No one is forcing them to send in their story. It isn't like these gay guys are going to different houses and forcing people to change. I find your comments quite ridiculous.

I never once said that people are forced to change, I said that their shows apply a superficial image of how everyone should behave and then reinforce it through ridicule.

That parody is ridiculous, lol. We already have plenty of hobbies.



Yeah... you know girls often want to go clothes shopping with me... they say I'm better matching colors, and better shopping with in general... heheh..

Yeah, I am a camp, stereotypical gay guy... some people just need help with their fashion sense, and overall living style. To mention, I have to go check out Hollister (one of my favorite stores) if they opened yet in the mall.

Look, to care about one self does not mean you have to be into gay life. I've seen straight men take care of themselves (society calls them metrosexuals - which is a misnomer because metrosexuality is not a sexual orientation).


I find it slightly pretentious of you to think people would need help with something that ultimately is in the eye of the beholder. I can take care of myself just fine without abiding by monolithic fashion standards, and personally I don't appreciate being judged just because I'm not wearing what somebody somewhere arbitrarily determined would be 2005's trendiwear. We all have our own tastes and that is our personal prerogative.

I never once said that people are forced to change, I said that their shows apply a superficial image of how everyone should behave and then reinforce it through ridicule.

I don't agree. I think someone's image can improve how they interact with others, how they function in society... and I certainly don't see ridicule in the show.

And someone says that being camp is just being superficial.. excuse me.. I have feelings too. And that quite frankly is hurtful to me. I can love to. I'm not all about my looks and sex.

Why the hell am I trying to justify myself to you guys who won't listen?

And sadly, revasser, QAF WAS ENDED.. :( I'm still upset about that.. they had their last show a while ago. But at least we have Logo... and Q Television.. these are in the US tho.

I never once said that people are forced to change, I said that their shows apply a superficial image of how everyone should behave and then reinforce it through ridicule.

Welcome to planet Earth. We have much to teach you about human customs.

I find it slightly pretentious of you to think people would need help with something that ultimately is in the eye of the beholder. I can take care of myself just fine without abiding by monolithic fashion standards, and personally I don't appreciate being judged just because I'm not wearing what somebody somewhere arbitrarily determined would be 2005's trendiwear. We all have our own tastes and that is our personal prerogative.

No it is not because I'm not forcing anyone to change. I would offer help and I have to one of my straight friends because HE ASKED ME TO. The same goes with the TV show. These straight guys send in their stories because they want to change the way they are. I'm not going to judge you and I certainly won't try to change you, unless you ask me to help you change.

Great now I'm trying to justify myself to plenty of people at a time. I understand people an take care of themselve without being typified as metrosexuals.

I'm still a guy. In the cultural/stereotypical sense? I know they may be associated with femininity but I'm no less of a guy then any other guy out there.

Sergio, name something wrong with that?
Again, im not using the thread as a covert action for a homophobic crusade. I just asked if there was a "gay" culture taking the institucional role traditionally atributed to "heterossexual" culture (if there were ever such a thing)

Again, im not using the thread as a covert action for a homophobic crusade. I just asked if there was a "gay" culture taking the institucional role traditionally atributed to "heterossexual" culture (if there were ever such a thing)

No, no there isn't. Does one TV show threaten you so?

Again, im not using the thread as a covert action for a homophobic crusade. I just asked if there was a "gay" culture taking the institucional role traditionally atributed to "heterossexual" culture (if there were ever such a thing)

Well I kinda get what you are saying.. but.. no. We will always be a minority culture...

No, no there isn't. Does one TV show threaten you so?
jesus, will there always be this sacred cows-like subjects that we cant adress or risk the wrath of the pc-patrol?!
God-damn time-table difference, i´ll have to log out in a minute...
And no, im not threatened by tv shows, but short-sighted hollier-than-thou people scare the living shit out of me...

jesus, will there always be this sacred cows-like subjects that we cant adress or risk the wrath of the pc-patrol?!
God-damn time-table difference, i´ll have to log out in a minute...
And no, im not threatened by tv shows, but short-sighted hollier-than-thou people scare the living shit out of me...

Hey, you're the one seeing a complete cultural takeover in a silly entertainment show. I wonder if you would have seen it had it not been gay people it was about. It seems to me that there's just something a bit threatening about seeing a bunch of fags on TV, why otherwise this alarmist "are they taking over?" thread?

Hey, you're the one seeing a complete cultural takeover in a silly entertainment show. I wonder if you would have seen it had it not been gay people it was about. It seems to me that there's just something a bit threatening about seeing a bunch of fags on TV, why otherwise this alarmist "are they taking over?" thread?

Well said. :) I'm serious.. what if we even get our own TV channel.. look at the overwhelming majority of TV shows and channels out there... shows that straight culture is firmly in control.

Again, im not using the thread as a covert action for a homophobic crusade. I just asked if there was a "gay" culture taking the institucional role traditionally atributed to "heterossexual" culture (if there were ever such a thing)
You're acting like this is a new thing--gays have been influencing culture since humans had culture to influence. I'm teaching an essay right now to my freshmen that deals with the latest influence, which has been going on largely since the mid-70's, in advertising, but many of the major iconic figures in art and communication have been gay--the one who immediately pops to mind is Michelangelo.

IAnd sadly, revasser, QAF WAS ENDED.. :( I'm still upset about that.. they had their last show a while ago. But at least we have Logo... and Q Television.. these are in the US tho.

Argh. That sucks. The first episode of the fifth season was shown here on Monday, so I at least I still have a few more episodes to see :) I plan to buy the DVD box sets but, sweet Mercury, they're expensive.

Have you seen any of the original British series? I've seen a bit of it on DVD, it's pretty good.

Argh. That sucks. The first episode of the fifth season was shown here on Monday, so I at least I still have a few more episodes to see :) I plan to buy the DVD box sets but, sweet Mercury, they're expensive.

Have you seen any of the original British series? I've seen a bit of it on DVD, it's pretty good.

Yeah, the DVD box set I saw at the cheapest was $89.99.. that was in Circuit City. they typically go for $110... ouch.. I can't afford that..

Yeah I have the original British one in a box set my parents got me for my birthday (ironic). It was like only $50.

To my mind, it's just more of the pandering to a sheep mentality, a new take on the "ooh you've got to look like this to fit in with the normal people" ideas of the marketing world. Very dull and tedious.

Welcome to planet Earth. We have much to teach you about human customs.

That is certainly a human custom. It is not a good one, however, and it is the one that gays are primarily related to by pop culture. I am just saying that it is unfortunate that gays are generally portrayed as very shallow by those shows, and it may be a factor in why homosexuals are gaining mainstream acceptance, but their personal lifestyles are not.

I don't agree. I think someone's image can improve how they interact with others, how they function in society... and I certainly don't see ridicule in the show.

I agree with you on this point. My point was that people should be comfortable with themselves no matter what personality traits they have. Like you and those around you should be allowed to be comfortable with the fact that you are camp, anti-social people and those around them should be confortable with the fact that he/she doesn't care about outward appearance.

And someone says that being camp is just being superficial.. excuse me.. I have feelings too. And that quite frankly is hurtful to me. I can love to. I'm not all about my looks and sex.

I thought when someone or something was campy, it referred to outward appearance. If it means something else to you, and I offended you, I apologize.

Why the hell am I trying to justify myself to you guys who won't listen?

Don't get worked up.

You are not justifying yourself, you don't need to. You are justifying these TV shows which I think portray gays as superficial. And I am listening, I am reading your posts and responding point by point.

I agree with you on this point. My point was that people should be comfortable with themselves no matter what personality traits they have. Like you and those around you should be allowed to be comfortable with the fact that you are camp, anti-social people and those around them should be confortable with the fact that he/she doesn't care about outward appearance.

If people want to change they can, and should be able to have someone to go to... umm... wait.. anti-social? How am I anti-social? i'm confused on that point. I'm pretty social.. try to party a lot.

I thought when someone or something was campy, it referred to outward appearance. If it means something else to you, and I offended you, I apologize.

It does.. and also refers to attitude. I just happen to be a camp gay guy.. but there is much more to me then that.


You are not justifying yourself, you don't need to. You are justifying these TV shows which I think portray gays as superficial. And I am listening, I am reading your posts and responding point by point.

Well... I do understand.. but I do not think it portrays us as being superficial.. just that we are willing to help someone who comes to us for a change. Nothing wrong with that.

I think it's sad that gays are being used to promote mindless shopping.
not going to say more

If people want to change they can, and should be able to have someone to go to... umm... wait.. anti-social? How am I anti-social? i'm confused on that point. I'm pretty social.. try to party a lot.

Yes people should be able to find help in changing. And no I meant that the individuals on the show have some antisocial traits.

Well... I do understand.. but I do not think it portrays us as being superficial.. just that we are willing to help someone who comes to us for a change. Nothing wrong with that.

Then we can leave it at that.

You're acting like this is a new thing--gays have been influencing culture since humans had culture to influence. I'm teaching an essay right now to my freshmen that deals with the latest influence, which has been going on largely since the mid-70's, in advertising, but many of the major iconic figures in art and communication have been gay--the one who immediately pops to mind is Michelangelo.

Not to omit Sappho, Socrates, Plato, Tchaikovsky, DaVinci, Oscar Wilde, Thoreau, Proust, Herman Melville, Somerset Maugham, Lord Byron, Gertrude Stein, Virginia Woolf, Truman Capote, Tennessee Williams, Federico Garcia Lorca, Rudolf Nureyev, W.H. Auden.... (I could go on for quite a while)

I think it's sad that gays are being used to promote mindless shopping.
not going to say more We use straight people for that purpose, why should we omit gays?

That is certainly a human custom. It is not a good one, however, and it is the one that gays are primarily related to by pop culture. I am just saying that it is unfortunate that gays are generally portrayed as very shallow by those shows, and it may be a factor in why homosexuals are gaining mainstream acceptance, but their personal lifestyles are not.

I'm secure enough in gay culture and the actions of great gay people not to feel threatened by a pop culture stereotype.

Personally, I despise homosexuals, lesbians, bisexuals and transsexuals. Thank God there are hardly any in Japan (after all, we are afraid of them too now).

Personally, I despite homosexuals, lesbians, bisexuals and transexuals. Thank God there are hardly any in Japan (after all, we are afraid of them too now).

Oh please.. we are everywhere.

And what the heck did we ever do to you?

Personally, I despite homosexuals, lesbians, bisexuals and transexuals. Thank God there are hardly any in Japan (after all, we are afraid of them too now).
Yeah, damn them all for having fun with each other in the privacy of their bedrooms!

Personally, I despite homosexuals, lesbians, bisexuals and transexuals.

Despite what? Do you mean "despise"? Too bad, since other than you despising me, I've nothing to dislike you for. Shame, really, but it's your loss.

Thank God there are hardly any in Japan (after all, we are afraid of them too now).

There are and were tonnes of gay people in Japan. Just look at the prolific Japanese gay porn industry, the torrent of Japanese gay themed anime, not to mention the gay relationships the historical Samurai are pretty famous for (just a few really apparent examples).

Just because you've not looked doesn't mean it's not there.

Personally, I despite homosexuals, lesbians, bisexuals and transexuals. Thank God there are hardly any in Japan (after all, we are afraid of them too now).

Are you worried that gay is contagious?

There are tonnes of gay people in Japan. Just look at the prolific Japanese gay porn industry and the torrent of Japanese gay themed anime (just two really apparent examples).


Yaoi.. don't ask me why I know that.... :)

Are you worried that gay is contagious?
Now that's a scary thought.

Yaoi.. don't ask me why I know that.... :)

http://fp.ignatz.plus.com/images/yaoi.jpg

Yaoi, indeed!

I have to say yes. I was on a trip with my coworkers to go train for our job and they noticed that I was wearing a rainbow ring.
One of my coworkers scoffed and said "Why are you wearing that, Mad? You aren't gay!"
And the rest of them started laughing... That's when I realized that they were all gay (it's nothing I hadn't already suspected)
I got really embarrassed that I wasn't homosexual and I wanted to say, "Oh yeah?! How do you know?" Then I realized how silly I would have sounded.

Are you worried that gay is contagious?

Sometimes, I wish... ;)

Yaoi, indeed!

DAMN YOU FASS. I can't get horny now looking at that..

DAMN YOU FASS. I can't get horny now looking at that..

Were you trying to get horny and that stopped you, or do you not want it to cause you to be horny? :confused:

I'm not that much into yaoi as so much of it can be so crappy and scary and tentacly, but there are some nice parts to it...

Not to omit Sappho, Socrates, Plato, Tchaikovsky, DaVinci, Oscar Wilde, Thoreau, Proust, Herman Melville, Somerset Maugham, Lord Byron, Gertrude Stein, Virginia Woolf, Truman Capote, Tennessee Williams, Federico Garcia Lorca, Rudolf Nureyev, W.H. Auden.... (I could go on for quite a while)
Precisely my point. Gay influence permeates culture unlike almost any other influence.

Were you trying to get horny and that stopped you, or do you not want it to cause you to be horny? :confused:

I'm not that much into yaoi as so much of it can be so crappy and scary and tentacly, but there are some nice parts to it...

I don't want it to cause me to be horny.

And yes some of it is nice, but a lot of it is strange. I got some of the nicer stuff on my hard-drive. ;)

I find it slightly pretentious of you to think people would need help with something that ultimately is in the eye of the beholder. I can take care of myself just fine without abiding by monolithic fashion standards, and personally I don't appreciate being judged just because I'm not wearing what somebody somewhere arbitrarily determined would be 2005's trendiwear. We all have our own tastes and that is our personal prerogative.

What if you wanted to know what was considered in style? What if no one had every told you how to use hair product, but you wanted to be able to use it and look a certain way. What if you had no idea what the different cuts of a suit were, what was different about them, and which might best fit your body type, and you wanted to know this? What if you had never decorated a home and you wanted to have someone professional help you out? What if you had no idea about different types of wines and which is traditionally considered appropriate for a certain meal and you wanted to know these things?

Would you find it pretentious if you wanted to know all these thigns and someone offered to help you?

Hell, I'm a mostly straight female and I would kill to have the queer eye guys come help me with my decorating/wardrobe.

Oh please.. we are everywhere.

And what the heck did we ever do to you? You gave me an annoying habit. :mad: On odd intervals, I now mince around going "helluo, saltat" - which is brought on by the gay pop culture, which wouldn't be there if it weren't for gays.

GUILTY! :D

You gave me an annoying habit. :mad: On odd intervals, I now mince around going "helluo, saltat"

"Helluo, saltat"? :confused:

Despite what? Do you mean "despise"? Too bad, since other than you despising me, I've nothing to dislike you for. Shame, really, but it's your loss.



There are and were tonnes of gay people in Japan. Just look at the prolific Japanese gay porn industry, the torrent of Japanese gay themed anime, not to mention the gay relationships the historical Samurai are pretty famous for (just a few really apparent examples).

Just because you've not looked doesn't mean it's not there.

Despise, yeah, sorry.

Also, the Yaoi comics are all made by women who all lead a sexless life because of their husbands job. I don't blame them.

The homosexual relationship between Samurai's ended with the Meiji Restoration, and after that, homosexuality decreased greatly.

And I really don't need rehabilitation from people about my views on homoesexuals or of that such. I have a firm base on my beliefs so lecturing me is pointless.

Despise, yeah, sorry.

You beg forgiveness for a typo, but not for despising me for no reason? Such shameless oblivion.

Also, the Yaoi comics are all made by women who all lead a sexless life because of their husbands job.

If you think Yaoi is all there is to gay anime and Japanese gay culture, then you are oblivious of Japan as well, it would seem.

Oh please.. we are everywhere.

And what the heck did we ever do to you?

Homosexuality is very unmoral, and I don't agree with it.

Man is made for Woman. Man wasn't made for man and woman wasn't made for a woman. It's just disgusting.

The homosexual relationship between Samurai's ended with the Meiji Restoration, and after that, homosexuality decreased greatly.

No, it didn't. It just wasn't as apparent, but it's always been there.

And I really don't need rehabilitation from people about my views on homoesexuals or of that such. I have a firm base on my beliefs so lecturing me is pointless.

I don't need to lecture you. I just pity you.

You beg forgiveness for a typo, but not for despising me for no reason? Such shameless oblivion.



If you think Yaoi is all there is to gay anime and Japanese gay culture, then you are oblivious of Japan as well, it would seem.

There used to be a homosexual culture in Japan, not after 1850-1860's. Wherever I walk, I don't see any homosexuals although Japan is a liberal-democratic (Junichiro Koizumi).

No, it didn't. It just wasn't as apparent, but it's always been there.



I don't need to lecture you. I just pity you.

Not anymore it hasn't.

I don't care if you pity me or not -- I'm just happy I'm away from homosexuals.

Homosexuality is very unmoral, and I don't agree with it.

What you don't agree with has nothing to do with morality.

Man is made for Woman. Man wasn't made for man and woman wasn't made for a woman. It's just disgusting.

Man wasn't made at all, so your point is, well, pointless.

Not anymore it hasn't.

Prove your delusion.

I don't care if you pity me or not -- I'm just happy I'm away from homosexuals.

We're happy you're away from us, even though we know that you encounter gay people all the time. They're just not telling you they're gay. And, not to worry, my pity for you is not dependant on you caring.

What you don't agree with has nothing to do with morality.



Man wasn't made at all, so your point is, well, pointless.

Homosexuality is very unmoral such as sex outside marriage (which I also strongly disagree with).

And "Man wasn't made at all" is a very uneducated statement.

Prove your delusion.



We're happy you're away from us, even though we know that you encounter gay people all the time. They're just not telling you they're gay.

Homosexuality isn't wide spread in Japan because, well, it isn't. After the Meiji Restoration, feudal times culture was abolished except key cultural points.

And if homosexuality isn't widespread in Japan, then obviously I won't encounter any in Japan (so far).

Homosexuality is very unmoral such as sex outside marriage (which I also strongly disagree with).

And "Man wasn't made at all" is a very uneducated statement.

I assume you mean homosexual sex is immoral? What do you think about a straight married couple that engages in anal sex?

Homosexuality is very unmoral such as sex outside marriage (which I also strongly disagree with).

Says who? You? Your religion? Why should anyone care about that?

And "Man wasn't made at all" is a very uneducated statement.

Nope, it's the scientific statement. Please, spare me tales about a wizard in the sky creating people from bones or pieces of wood...

There used to be a homosexual culture in Japan, not after 1850-1860's. Wherever I walk, I don't see any homosexuals although Japan is a liberal-democratic (Junichiro Koizumi).

Er, are they supposed to wear signs or something? How would you know if you were seeing a homosexual, exactly? Given, if they were exchanging blowjobs or something in the middle of the street, that might be a context clue, but it is my understanding that many of the men in gay porn are actually straight and only "gay for pay" (honestly, the things you learn reading Defamer). Perhaps they were only at work?

Still, I guess such blindingly oblivious ignorance is special in it's own way.

What if you wanted to know what was considered in style? What if no one had every told you how to use hair product, but you wanted to be able to use it and look a certain way. What if you had no idea what the different cuts of a suit were, what was different about them, and which might best fit your body type, and you wanted to know this? What if you had never decorated a home and you wanted to have someone professional help you out? What if you had no idea about different types of wines and which is traditionally considered appropriate for a certain meal and you wanted to know these things?

Would you find it pretentious if you wanted to know all these thigns and someone offered to help you?

Hell, I'm a mostly straight female and I would kill to have the queer eye guys come help me with my decorating/wardrobe.It doesn't evenhave much to do with wanting to know what's in style, especially in the worlds of home decoration and fashion--gay culture sets the style there for the most part, sometimes with a wink and a nod toward women and gay men while acting as though they're trying to sell to straight men.

Homosexuality isn't wide spread in Japan because, well, it isn't. After the Meiji Restoration, feudal times culture was abolished except key cultural points.

Meaning you can't prove it.

And if homosexuality isn't widespread in Japan, then obviously I won't encounter any in Japan (so far).

But it widespread, and you have encountered gay people, I guarantee you that. You just don't know about it.

Homosexuality is very disgusting. I don't blame Yaoi creator's. I really am not here to argue, I'm here just to state something many Japanese I know and I strongly disagree with.

I learned Japanese history, and homosexuality is very rare here now.

I assume you mean homosexual sex is immoral? What do you think about a straight married couple that engages in anal sex?

Probably something along the lines of, "Dude, SCORE!"

Homosexuality isn't wide spread in Japan because, well, it isn't. After the Meiji Restoration, feudal times culture was abolished except key cultural points.

And if homosexuality isn't widespread in Japan, then obviously I won't encounter any in Japan (so far).


Here's some actual figures on sexuality in Japan:

http://www2.hu-berlin.de/sexology/IES/japan.html

Homosexuality is very disgusting. I don't blame Yaoi creator's. I really am not here to argue, I'm here just to state something many Japanese I know and I strongly disagree with.

You've stated nothing and have only made your homophobia apparent. And nobody cares about what precious little you find disgusting.

Homosexuality is very disgusting. I don't blame Yaoi creator's. I really am not here to argue, I'm here just to state something many Japanese I know and I strongly disagree with.

I learned Japanese history, and homosexuality is very rare here now.

Sorry, but I sincerely doubt that.

Did they also teach you about the healthy human slavery and forced prostitution industry in Japan?

It's my family's belief of whats immoral and whats moral. Homosexuality and sex outside marriage is immoral, very.

Here's some actual figures on sexuality in Japan:

http://www2.hu-berlin.de/sexology/IES/japan.html

Imagine that!

Homosexuality is very disgusting. I don't blame Yaoi creator's. I really am not here to argue, I'm here just to state something many Japanese I know and I strongly disagree with.

I learned Japanese history, and homosexuality is very rare here now.

However, all those people at Tokyo's Gay Pride parade would probably disagree with you. Isn't it funny how people have different opinions and everything?

It's my family's belief of whats immoral and whats moral. Homosexuality and sex outside marriage is immoral, very.

Why should anybody care about that? Do you actually think someone cares?

Homosexuality is very unmoral, and I don't agree with it.

Are you equally opposed to sweating? Menstruating? Ovulating? Ejaculating?

There used to be a homosexual culture in Japan, not after 1850-1860's. Wherever I walk, I don't see any homosexuals although Japan is a liberal-democratic (Junichiro Koizumi).

Because all homosexuals wear gold stars? Because they all have GAY tattooed across their heads?

It doesn't evenhave much to do with wanting to know what's in style, especially in the worlds of home decoration and fashion--gay culture sets the style there for the most part, sometimes with a wink and a nod toward women and gay men while acting as though they're trying to sell to straight men.

Well, in home decoration anyways, there are lots and lots of possible styles. While it isn't always true, gay men seem to have an eye for aesthetics that many straight men do not, that's all. I've known gay men with none, who asked me (simply because I'm a girl, even though I don't really know either) to shop with them. I have a semi-straight male friend I ask to shop with me because I like his style and I know he'll help me out.

In the realm of statistical average, most straight men are either unconcerned with aesthetics, or are concerned but aren't quite sure what is and is not aesthetic. They know what they like when they see it, but don't really know how to bring it all together (I'm the same way, despite being female).

Queer eye does feed to the stereotypes that come out of the averages a bit, suggesting that gay men always have a better eye for these things (not true, I've known gay men who asked me for help in shopping/etc.) However, the whole show is light, and thus makes light even of the stereotypes it is somewhat based on. Meanwhile, they make these guys feel better about themselves and feel as though they look better (something most are concerned with, whether they admit it or not).

Why should anybody care about that? Do you actually think someone cares?

A lot do. Just none here. Well, nobody who isn't a total crackpot.

It's my family's belief of whats immoral and whats moral. Homosexuality and sex outside marriage is immoral, very.

You can't prove it. And also another thing.. you've been repeating the same thing over and over again like a broken record.

I hate annoying overly camp men, who the hell decided to stick these guys on tv?

You can't prove it. And also another thing.. you've been repeating the same thing over and over again like a broken record.What is it exactly that you want him to prove Mesa? You want him to prove that homosexuality and sex out of marriage is considered imoral in his family? What? Do you want his parents to come out here and say that? I don't get your point.


And for the record. I believe that neither homosexuality nor sex outside of marriage is imoral at all. I believe that both are human and natural activities.

What is it exactly that you want him to prove Mesa? You want him to prove that homosexuality and sex out of marriage is considered imoral in his family? What? Do you want his parents to come out here and say that? I don't get your point.

I want him to prove that homosexuality is immoral in the general picture. Not in his family. I want him to show me how it is wrong and disgusting.

I want him to prove that homosexuality is immoral in the general picture. Not in his family. I want him to show me how it is wrong and disgusting.Of course he can't. But that's missing the point about 'morality'. I don't think morality has anything to do with facts, proof or science. I think it has to do with a bunch of rules, or guidelines or beliefs that individuals, families, cultures etc... live (or choose to live) their lives by.

Of course he can't. But that's missing the point about 'morality'. I don't think morality has anything to do with facts, proof or science. I think it has to do with a bunch of rules, or guidelines or beliefs that individuals, families, cultures etc... live (or choose to live) their lives by.

I don't care. I want to know why he thinks that.

I'm going to post just to break the trend. Leonardo Da Vinci was homosexual. The only thing I consider abnormal in him was his total genious.

I'm going to post just to break the trend. Leonardo Da Vinci was homosexual. The only thing I consider abnormal in him was his total genious.

Beat you to it! (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=9677996&postcount=53) :p

thanks, pope hope, for posting that link.

now, just for the record: saying that homosexuality per se is lower in one country or the other is ridculous.

you oughta know that it's gotta do something with biology and that there's a rather constant percentage of all men being gay. no matter where, no matter when. similar percentages run in animals as well, btw, just in order to back up the biology popint. anyway..

so yes, tehre are countries where the existence of a gay population is more visible. and other countries where you ahve to look closely to find it. but that is only because in latter countries the folks may not feel all to safe to show their sexuality. man, you wouldn't know i was gay if i wouldn't want you to, either, and i sure wouldn't if my country was mainly made up of people like you saying idiotic things like "there is no homosexuality here".

freaks!

Yeah... you know girls often want to go clothes shopping with me... they say I'm better matching colors, and better shopping with in general... heheh..

Yeah, I am a camp, stereotypical gay guy... some people just need help with their fashion sense, and overall living style.
What is it with (some of) you gays trying so hard to be stereotypes. Don't you realise that it only causes normal people to be annoyed and antagonistic towards you? Why not just be yourself, not put on a show to prove how "gay" you are.

"Perversion of natural moral sexual roles in the community, as is seen in the modern day androgynous media and textbooks, advances the acceptance of the homosexual and lesbian, or anti-masculine tolerance, but at what cost? It demeans the roles of fathers, and of mothers that choose to raise their children at the cost of their own careers or follow a more traditional family model, and give a slanted view of humanity and society. Denigrating what should be honored and hindering what should be encouraged.

Denial of opportunity for children to interact in their home environment with a loving person of the opposite gender, or likewise, denying them the opportunity to interact with someone of the same gender, will restrict and distort and withhold from them an accurate self view, worldview of humanity, and have an unforeseeable effect on human reproductive sexuality entirely.

Promoting an androgynous community will deform the society like a disease that perverts the body. Family support and role-models will disappear from public view, to the point where the Family will cease to function as a social institution and the basic support system that has served its members emotional, moral and spiritual needs will fade away. There is no other social institution in the history of mankind that has successfully replaced the need for the family structure, to abandon it’s basic principles now at the whim of this generation in the name ‘tolerance’ will be the first step backwards, back down the hill that is civilization and reverses our course and makes us less, not more humane.

The promotion, or acceptance, of immoral sexual behaviors, particularly infidelity, pervasive pornography and the degradation of loving parental sexuality, by a child’s parents and role-models will lead to many social problems which will further result in the destruction of family and the decline of behaviors that support healthy families.

Regulation of the basic family unit, IMO, is well within the power and realm of the government and community policy and doctrine to form and protect."

"Perversion of natural moral sexual roles in the community... yada yada yada, bunch of conservative poppycock...

Cut&Pasted from some propaganda site. Are you really that uninspired? :rolleyes:

Denial of opportunity for children to interact in their home environment with a loving person of the opposite gender, or likewise, denying them the opportunity to interact with someone of the same gender, will restrict and distort and withhold from them an accurate self view, worldview of humanity, and have an unforeseeable effect on human reproductive sexuality entirely.

Denial of the opportunity for children to interact with multiple role models, of both genders, both within and outside their home, will cause a problem. Of course, there is no reason that homosexual couples cannot ensure that their children have interactions with role models of the opposite sex, so there's really no problem here.

The promotion, or acceptance, of immoral sexual behaviors, particularly infidelity, pervasive pornography and the degradation of loving parental sexuality, by a child’s parents and role-models will lead to many social problems which will further result in the destruction of family and the decline of behaviors that support healthy families.

What does this have to do with the topic at hand? Oh, nothing.

Regulation of the basic family unit, IMO, is well within the power and realm of the government and community policy and doctrine to form and protect."

The "basic family unit", if you are referring to the nuclear family, is a very new idea in the history of Western culture.

Refutation time.

What is it with (some of) you gays trying so hard to be stereotypes. Don't you realise that it only causes normal people to be annoyed and antagonistic towards you? Why not just be yourself, not put on a show to prove how "gay" you are.

What is it with some of you heterosexuals in being so crude and homophobic? No, I'm sorry but normal people? Normal people as in bigots as yourself? Or normal people, as in those who can accept people for who they are? I'm sorry but I'm not going to cover up who I am for your own satisfaction.


"Perversion of natural moral sexual roles in the community, as is seen in the modern day androgynous media and textbooks, advances the acceptance of the homosexual and lesbian, or anti-masculine tolerance, but at what cost? It demeans the roles of fathers, and of mothers that choose to raise their children at the cost of their own careers or follow a more traditional family model, and give a slanted view of humanity and society. Denigrating what should be honored and hindering what should be encouraged.

No offense, but you're full of it. Advancement of civil rights are imperative. And there are plenty of gay couples that are successful at raising children. Give me a break.. how does it demean the roles of fathers and of mothers? How does it cause them to lose their jobs? Traditional family model? You mean the one that christian fundamentalists approve of? I think I would take pride in deingrating the hideous views you hold. Why? Because this is America, and gay people deserve their democratic rights just like anyone else. And you cite no evidence either to your statements. Prove that gay couples are somehow causing a breakdown in heterosexual marriage and heterosexual families.. they simply are NOT.

Denial of opportunity for children to interact in their home environment with a loving person of the opposite gender, or likewise, denying them the opportunity to interact with someone of the same gender, will restrict and distort and withhold from them an accurate self view, worldview of humanity, and have an unforeseeable effect on human reproductive sexuality entirely.

This is utterly ridiculous. How does allowing gay people to marry deny children the right to happiness? It would restrict and distort, and withhold them from an accurate self view? Really? As in your own case? You seem to hold some bigotry against gay people. As far as I'm concerned, gay people I talked to are perhaps the most open and tolerant people I know. If anything, they can only help if they were allowed to get married and raise children. These couples would be able to raise children just as well as heterosexual couples.

Furthermore, gay people have always been a steady percentage of the population.

Promoting an androgynous community will deform the society like a disease that perverts the body. Family support and role-models will disappear from public view, to the point where the Family will cease to function as a social institution and the basic support system that has served its members emotional, moral and spiritual needs will fade away. There is no other social institution in the history of mankind that has successfully replaced the need for the family structure, to abandon it’s basic principles now at the whim of this generation in the name ‘tolerance’ will be the first step backwards, back down the hill that is civilization and reverses our course and makes us less, not more humane.

Typical nonsense from the typical christian. Family support and role-models will disappear? Really? How so? Gay people have been accepted more then ever, and if anything the media is totally and utterly dominated by heterosexual TV shows and more and more heterosexual role models. Your claims are totally ridiculous and are without evidence. They rely on fear, and idiotic reasoning. How will the family cease to function? Because gay people get married? Are we going to ban heterosexuals to get married? No we are not. Your reasons and notions are quite ridiculous.

The promotion, or acceptance, of immoral sexual behaviors, particularly infidelity, pervasive pornography and the degradation of loving parental sexuality, by a child’s parents and role-models will lead to many social problems which will further result in the destruction of family and the decline of behaviors that support healthy families.


How are those the same as homosexuality? We can be just as loving as heterosexuals and maintain strong and healthy relationships. Lets face it, you heterosexuals are responsible for the 50+% divorce rate. We aren't. If anything allowing gay marriage will strengthen the family institution. Healthy families? You are more redundant.

Look what the cat dragged in.


Regulation of the basic family unit, IMO, is well within the power and realm of the government and community policy and doctrine to form and protect."

No. The US government is based on certain principles that are supposed to be protecting all americans and maintaining equal rights. Not the Hitlerism you propose.

Cut&Pasted from some propaganda site. Are you really that uninspired? :rolleyes:
Every civilization of the past that was as permissive of homosexuality as ours is becoming, has collapsed.

Every civilization of the past that was as permissive of homosexuality as ours is becoming, has collapsed.

That's false. The Roman empire became permissive of christianity promoting it as the official religion and it collapsed.

Every civilization of the past that was as permissive of homosexuality as ours is becoming, has collapsed.

Every civilisation of the past has collapsed, whether or not gay people were accepted. That's what civilisations do - they crumble, and ours will crumble, too.

You really should brush up on your history and stay away from such mind-numbing simplistic stupidity as "teh gheys made Rome fall, and not such complex things like poor economics, unkept infrastructure, internal strife, foreign attacks, unstable leadership, unwillingness to remain cohesive, epidemics, religious intolerance (yup, Christianity came along and Rome soon fell apart, unsurprisingly) and so on and so forth - no, sirree Bob, teh gheys did it all, the fags!!!one!". :rolleyes:

And you know, global warming has gone up ever since the amounts of pirates went down...

Denial of the opportunity for children to interact with multiple role models, of both genders, both within and outside their home, will cause a problem. Of course, there is no reason that homosexual couples cannot ensure that their children have interactions with role models of the opposite sex, so there's really no problem here.
But children spend most of their time at home with the parents, so they will be somewhat lacking in exposure to role models of the opposite gendre.

How are those the same as homosexuality? We can be just as loving as heterosexuals and maintain strong and healthy relationships. Lets face it, you heterosexuals are responsible for the 50+% divorce rate. We aren't. If anything allowing gay marriage will strengthen the family institution. Healthy families? You are more redundant.

No. The US government is based on certain principles that are supposed to be protecting all americans and maintaining equal rights. Not the Hitlerism you propose.
I agree that the 50% divorce rate is a disgrace and people don't take marriage seriously because divorce is not only legal but too easily on-demand.

I'm also not a Nazi. I don't think that gays should be killed, or imprisoned, or any such thing. Don't invoke Godwin's law.

I agree that the 50% divorce rate is a disgrace and people don't take marriage seriously because divorce is not only legal but too easily on-demand.

Again another problem of heterosexuals, not homosexuals.

I'm also not a Nazi. I don't think that gays should be killed, or imprisoned, or any such thing. Don't invoke Godwin's law.

You need to get your ideas right and stop copy and pasting from websites. I also see you ignored the rest of my points.

But children spend most of their time at home with the parents, so they will be somewhat lacking in exposure to role models of the opposite gendre.

Hogwash. What about single parent families? Should we ban those and strip them of their children too?

You really should brush up on your history and stay away from such mind-numbing simplistic stupidity as "teh gheys made Rome fall, and not such complex things like poor economics, unkept infrastructure, internal strife, foreign attacks, unstable leadership, unwillingness to remain cohesive, epidemics, religious intolerance (yup, Christianity came along and Rome soon fell apart, unsurprisingly) and so on and so forth - no, sirree Bob, teh gheys did it all, the fags!!!one!".
Large Part of the reason that the Romans fell intro idleness and ease, and were thus conquered, was because of the frenzied hedonism that was rampant among its citizenry. Part of this was permission of homosexuality, and also there was incest, excessive eating and drinking (vomitoriums, anyone) and prostitution. Caligula even opened his palace as a brothel!

I'm not saying that all of it stemmed from "teh gheys" - straights were also at fault - but they were a part of it.

Are you crazy!! Why would gays be cool. I mean is it cool to act like a girl and think guys are hot. That's crazy!! :headbang:

Large Part of the reason that the Romans fell intro idleness and ease, and were thus conquered, was because of the frenzied hedonism that was rampant among its citizenry. Part of this was permission of homosexuality, and also there was incest, excessive eating and drinking (vomitoriums, anyone) and prostitution. Caligula even opened his palace as a brothel!

I'm not saying that all of it stemmed from "teh gheys" - straights were also at fault - but they were a part of it.
HAHAHAHAHAH. Oh dear. Please study some history. The opulence was a symptom, not the disease. They were rich, and they were unchallenged. Unfortunitally, the gravy train of conquest stopped, and once the huns started to push the barbarians into the borders, bye bye Roman empire (at least in the west. The east, on the other hand, held on for even longer). Even so, the Romans still held on for a good 400 years after they started "being teh ghey", which I remind you, is a longer time then we've spent at the top.

Large Part of the reason that the Romans fell intro idleness and ease, and were thus conquered, was because of the frenzied hedonism that was rampant among its citizenry. Part of this was permission of homosexuality, and also there was incest, excessive eating and drinking (vomitoriums, anyone) and prostitution. Caligula even opened his palace as a brothel!

I'm not saying that all of it stemmed from "teh gheys" - straights were also at fault - but they were a part of it.

This is absolutely stupid commentary. First off, christianity was the accepted religion in the Roman empire when it started to decline. But moreover, what caused the roman empire to fall was overextension and too many costly military campaigns. Not homosexuality. What are you smoking? You don't know what you're talking about.

What is it with (some of) you gays trying so hard to be stereotypes. Don't you realise that it only causes normal people to be annoyed and antagonistic towards you? Why not just be yourself, not put on a show to prove how "gay" you are.

"Perversion of natural moral sexual roles in the community, as is seen in the modern day androgynous media and textbooks, advances the acceptance of the homosexual and lesbian, or anti-masculine tolerance, but at what cost? It demeans the roles of fathers, and of mothers that choose to raise their children at the cost of their own careers or follow a more traditional family model, and give a slanted view of humanity and society. Denigrating what should be honored and hindering what should be encouraged.

Denial of opportunity for children to interact in their home environment with a loving person of the opposite gender, or likewise, denying them the opportunity to interact with someone of the same gender, will restrict and distort and withhold from them an accurate self view, worldview of humanity, and have an unforeseeable effect on human reproductive sexuality entirely.

Promoting an androgynous community will deform the society like a disease that perverts the body. Family support and role-models will disappear from public view, to the point where the Family will cease to function as a social institution and the basic support system that has served its members emotional, moral and spiritual needs will fade away. There is no other social institution in the history of mankind that has successfully replaced the need for the family structure, to abandon it’s basic principles now at the whim of this generation in the name ‘tolerance’ will be the first step backwards, back down the hill that is civilization and reverses our course and makes us less, not more humane.

The promotion, or acceptance, of immoral sexual behaviors, particularly infidelity, pervasive pornography and the degradation of loving parental sexuality, by a child’s parents and role-models will lead to many social problems which will further result in the destruction of family and the decline of behaviors that support healthy families.

Regulation of the basic family unit, IMO, is well within the power and realm of the government and community policy and doctrine to form and protect."

I don't know how much more I can agree with this statement. I agree with this statement a full 200%.

Large Part of the reason that the Romans fell intro idleness and ease, and were thus conquered, was because of the frenzied hedonism that was rampant among its citizenry. Part of this was permission of homosexuality, and also there was incest, excessive eating and drinking (vomitoriums, anyone) and prostitution. Caligula even opened his palace as a brothel!

I'm not saying that all of it stemmed from "teh gheys" - straights were also at fault - but they were a part of it.

Wow. You really are this misinformed about history. As I said: mind-numbing.

Hogwash. What about single parent families? Should we ban those and strip them of their children too?
The single parents are a problem. If divorce was outlawed, or at least made difficult to get, then we would make some progress in that area. Any single parents left (e.g. partner dies, etc.) should be subsidized by the government and encouraged to find a new partner.

The single parents are a problem. If divorce was outlawed, or at least made difficult to get, then we would make some progress in that area. Any single parents left (e.g. partner dies, etc.) should be subsidized by the government and encouraged to find a new partner.

You don't have any evidence for anything. :rolleyes: You can't outlaw divorce.

The single parents are a problem. If divorce was outlawed, or at least made difficult to get, then we would make some progress in that area. Any single parents left (e.g. partner dies, etc.) should be subsidized by the government and encouraged to find a new partner.
Oh. You're one of those. We have nothing to discuss. You can keep your bigotry behind closed doors where it doesn't hurt anyone.

This is absolutely stupid commentary. First off, christianity was the accepted religion in the Roman empire when it started to decline. But moreover, what caused the roman empire to fall was overextension and too many costly military campaigns. Not homosexuality. What are you smoking? You don't know what you're talking about.
Huh, sounds like Bush and the neo-cons doesn't it? I'm sure they will have their part to play in the downfall of our civilisation.

Many factors led to the downfall of the Romans. Military overextension was part of it, I agree. So was the hedonistic idleness that the people fell into.

Oh. You're one of those. We have nothing to discuss. You can keep your bigotry behind closed doors where it doesn't hurt anyone.

Yeah, I see it now, too. Best to let them return to beneath the rock whence they came...

I read homosexuality isn't biological. Chromosome 11 in your genes would be longer if your a homosexual, and that has been proven but other evidence says that's false. The real thing is psychological. Where when someone says someone is ugly over and over again that the person starts to judge other guys by looks and then become homosexual.

Degrading the family name by homosexuality is very true.

Homosexuality came beneath the rock.

Simple forumla

Man + Woman = Way of Life

Man + Man = Not a way of life

Woman + Woman = Not a way of life

Man dividing himself into a woman - Definalty not a way of life and vice versa.

Huh, sounds like Bush and the neo-cons doesn't it? I'm sure they will have their part to play in the downfall of our civilisation.

Many factors led to the downfall of the Romans. Military overextension was part of it, I agree. So was the hedonistic idleness that the people fell into.

This is total and utter nonsense. I didn't say anything about Bush. This nation doesn't even want to hold Iraq. It wants to get out of there.

No. Military overextension and government inefficency make up for the near entireity of the problems. Also major crop failures were another issue.

Oh. You're one of those. We have nothing to discuss. You can keep your bigotry behind closed doors where it doesn't hurt anyone.
One of those whats? I don't see how I am a bigot for thinking that rampant divorce is a problem. I'm just pro-society.

I read homosexuality isn't biological. Chromosome 11 in your genes would be longer if your a homosexual, and that has been proven but other evidence says thats false. The real thing is psychological. Where when someone says someone is ugly over and over again that the person starts to judge other guys by looks and then become homosexual.

Degrading the family name by homosexuality is very true.

Homosexuality came beneath the rock.

Simple forumla

Man + Woman = Way of Life

Man + Man = Not a way of life

Woman + Woman = Not a way of life

Man dividing himself into a woman - Definalty not a way of life and vice versa.

Oh, so much stupidity concentrated into one post. It's almost like a vortex of ignorance.

I read homosexuality isn't biological. Chromosome 11 in your genes would be longer if your a homosexual, and that has been proven but other evidence says thats false. The real thing is psychological. Where when someone says someone is ugly over and over again that the person starts to judge other guys by looks and then become homosexual.

Degrading the family name by homosexuality is very true.

This is of course has no evidence to it. No citations, nothing. I read homosexuality is mainly tied to genetics, and this is a proven. You don't know what you're talking about.. chromosome 11? Speaking out of your rear end right now/

And that bolded section is bullshit. I happen to have modeled for magazines. I'm not ugly. So please take your crap elsewhere.

Nevermind this.

Really, when Muslims say homosexuals should be stoned to death -- I might agree.

Nevermind this.

Really, when Muslims say homosexuals should be stoned to death -- I might agree.
Lookit, a death threat. Instant ban!


I'm going to give myself an ulcer by being here. Ta...

Nevermind this.

Really, when Muslims say homosexuals should be stoned to death -- I might agree.

You are calling for my stoning? Well that's a death threat. You could have a total-ban from this website, including the removal of your nation.

. . .and homosexuals are baka's as well.

I don't see anywhere "I" and "will" and "kill you" anywhere in my post that you quoted.

. . .and homosexuals are baka's as well.

I don't see anywhere "I" and "will" and "kill you" anywhere in my post that you quoted.

Foolish reply. It still indicates you support death against other people, which is a death threat.. whether direct or indirect. You can still get banned.

Well no, I just said I might agree when MUSLIMS say it. And I said "might". I never said I would do it.

You're such a baka, really

Well no, I just said I might agree when MUSLIMS say it. And I said "might". I never said I would do it.

You're such a baka, really

Don't flame.

You should really be quiet right now. You are probably going to get banned. And it doesn't matter if you might agree with it, you still shot out a death threat. You are the baka... whatever the hell that means.

Homosexuality, according to Islam, Judaism and Catholicism is an evil, I agree very much so.

Anyway, I'll be leaving here. Argueing with homosexuals is such a shameful thing for me.

i read the name and i had to come in and say Fuck No, hetero=good homo=bad

Homosexuality, according to Islam, Judaism and Catholicism is an evil, I agree very much so.

Anyway, I'll be leaving here. Argueing with homosexuals is such a shameful thing for me.

Wow, what a dumb response. I think that has to be the worst I ever seen here..

There you go, thank you very much Gi6son.

When the day of judgement comes, then we'll see who's right and who's wrong.

There you go, thank you very much Gi6son.

When the day of judgement comes, then we'll see who's right and who's wrong.

You are wrong because religion is baseless. Get something new. Religion was invented by people, no one else. The one who will be wrong is you.

Like you know who will be right or wrong. . .Baka-gaijin.

Anyway, I'll be leaving here. Argueing with homosexuals is such a shameful thing for me.

Yes, you have indeed shamed yourself.

Like you know who will be right or wrong. . .Baka-gaijin.

Stop your unsubstantiated flaming.

I know I'll be right, because religious texts have been skewed enough throughout the centuries by bigots.

Fine, you know what, for the sake of humanity.

I apologize for being so bias. I'll be looking forward to reform myself into treating homosexuals as humans and not dogs and not be bias towards them. That is all I will be doing.

And now, I'll seriously be out of here..

Fine, you know what, for the sake of humanity.

I apologize for being so bias. I'll be looking forward to reform myself into treating homosexuals as humans and not dogs and not be bias towards them. That is all I will be doing.

And now, I'll seriously be out of here..

I sure hope you are serious because we have done nothing wrong. We are just trying to be productive members of society like anyone else.

There you go, thank you very much Gi6son.

When the day of judgement comes, then we'll see who's right and who's wrong.

lol it all depends on whose doing the judging really.

I sure hope you are serious because we have done nothing wrong. We are just trying to be productive members of society like anyone else.

I am serious.

And Economic Associates, all I have to say is - lol.

Wow, the concentration of trolls is beyond belief. Staggering, even.

lol it all depends on whose doing the judging really.

I vote for Judge Judy! (Not Garland!)

I vote for Judge Judy! (Not Garland!)

I have to go with Judge Mills Lane. He is the original television judge and was on celebrity deathmatch.

I have to go with Judge Mills Lane. He is the original television judge and was on celebrity deathmatch.

Won't he be too malleable?

Won't he be too malleable?

lol if he is the clay version then yes. The funniest thing though to see if the final judgment really happened would be to see the version of god shown in southpark.

lol if he is the clay version then yes. The funniest thing though to see if the final judgment really happened would be to see the version of god shown in southpark.

http://www.transload.net/~sparkwheel/faith/god.jpg

Well, it's as (im)plausible as any deity. Butt ugly, though.

http://www.transload.net/~sparkwheel/faith/god.jpg

Well, it's as (im)plausible as any deity. Butt ugly, though.

Jesus is much prettier.

Jesus is much prettier.

Well, he does make an excellent masochistic slave.

Fine, you know what, for the sake of humanity.

I apologize for being so bias. I'll be looking forward to reform myself into treating homosexuals as humans and not dogs and not be bias towards them. That is all I will be doing.

And now, I'll seriously be out of here..
Don't let the doorknob hit you in the ass on the way out--you might like it, and that would make baby Jesus cry.

Well to balance that out there was a show called "Straight plan for the Gay Man" on Comedy central where straight guys would help very gay men act more manly by changing their wardrobe, redecorating their homes and getting them into manly hobbies.

Indeed, but more to the point concerning what was asked, the "straight plan" show was not nearly as popular as the "queer eye" show.

Indeed, but more to the point concerning what was asked, the "straight plan" show was not nearly as popular as the "queer eye" show.
And there's a very good reason for that--it wasn't very good. It just wasn't funny.

Well, he does make an excellent masochistic slave.
Have you seen the cover of that EP by the Swedish band Marduk, Fuck Me Jesus? It depicts a young lady finding "religious solace".

Typical nonsense from the typical christian.

You certainly don't need to answer bigotry with bigotry.

But children spend most of their time at home with the parents, so they will be somewhat lacking in exposure to role models of the opposite gendre.

Children spend most of their time at home. There is no reason that others can not spend time there as well, and make sure they spend plenty of time with the children. I grew up for part of my life in a single-parent household, but didn't lack for male role models. The rest of my family was there - my uncles were role models. Male teachers were role models. My friends' fathers were role models. My softball coach was a role model. I hardly lacked for male role models in my life.

A responsible parent, of any sexuality, will ensure that their children get the proper social interactions.

Homosexuality, according to Islam, Judaism and Catholicism is an evil, I agree very much so.

That all depends on who you talk to in those religions. Depending on the sect of Islam or Judaism, homosexuality may not be condemned at all.

For Catholocism, where the dogma is clearly delineated by a hierarchical structure, it is very clear that homosexuality is not condemned. The church has declared it obvious that sexuality is not something that can be changed/controlled. The Catholic Church simply states that homosexuals are called to a life of celibacy.

This isn't something I agree with, but it is certainly more rational than saying that sexuality itself can possibly be a sin. It is like claiming that I sin every time I menstruate, even though I have no control over it.

Have you seen the cover of that EP by the Swedish band Marduk, Fuck Me Jesus? It depicts a young lady finding "religious solace".

Yes, I have. It can be seen on their website, marduk.nu

Screw the rhetoric, why can't these people just do us all a favour and die out like the medieval relics they are?

Just to complicate things, I'm pretty sure one episode of Queer Eye was about a slobby gay guy...

Just to complicate things, I'm pretty sure one episode of Queer Eye was about a slobby gay guy...

Yeah I remember that episode.. great twist. I wish they would do it more often...

Just to complicate things, I'm pretty sure one episode of Queer Eye was about a slobby gay guy...

One of my old college friends is a gay guy with no fashion sense, not an ounce of camp, although he can cook really well. =) This guy used to ask me, of all people, to go shopping with him, and I can't pick out my own clothes! He actually fell more along the lines of the trench-coat, pseudo-goth crowd than any other I suppose. I wouldn't call hiim slobby, but I think the queer eye guys would have something to say about him. =)

Like you know who will be right or wrong. . .Baka-gaijin.

I doubt if you're Japanese either.

Though, just for the record: 私は漢字が読めません。

"I cannot read Chinese characters." - Is what you said.

And do you think I care what you doubt or not? I'm proud of being Japanese and if you doubt it, then good for you because I don't care what you say.

Assumptions are part of the arrogance of gaikokujin's.

Don't let the doorknob hit you in the ass on the way out--you might like it, and that would make baby Jesus cry.

Anata baki-nin, shizuka-ni.

What are you talking about, you're talking like arrogant gaikokujin, which you probably are.

I thought that in the US, hotwives were the latest in-crowd (as evidenced by shows like Desperate Housewives). And in the UK, people who engage in "dogging" were the latest in-crowd.

But what do I know.

Simple -

Respect homosexuals.

This thread really seemed to have become a battle ground between equally intolerant views on homossexuality.
That wasnt my intention when i started it, believe it or not.
What i asked was if there were any opinions on the sudden tv spotlight on shows that have gay individuals as their main characters, and if this meant that "gayness" was being purported as a new dominante culture in society (specially in the realm of trends).
Apparently, i was too gullible and misguided thinking that a serious and fruuitful debate could be held on this matter.
My bad...

This thread really seemed to have become a battle ground between equally intolerant views on homossexuality.
That wasnt my intention when i started it, believe it or not.
What i asked was if there were any opinions on the sudden tv spotlight on shows that have gay individuals as their main characters, and if this meant that "gayness" was being purported as a new dominante culture in society (specially in the realm of trends).
Apparently, i was too gullible and misguided thinking that a serious and fruuitful debate could be held on this matter.
My bad...

You will notice, of couse, that my post didn't say anything about homosexuals. I personally believe that homosexuality as a trend in TV and advertising is passe. The more people accept it, the less unique and special it will appear. After a while, no one will really care if one character or host of a show is gay or not.

Foolish reply. It still indicates you support death against other people, which is a death threat.. whether direct or indirect. You can still get banned.

No,it´s not.It´s the same as advocating the death penalty for criminals.Also,I read the rules and the example for the "death threat" is idiotic at best.If you consider THAT a death threat,then [I will no finish this sentence because it could get me banned]. (Then again,certain mods do have a tendancy to take things far too seriously.Guess mod-behaviour can rub off.)

Personally,I think it´s really cheap to "win" an online-argument against somebody by citing,of all things, FORUM-RULES :rolleyes:

Explination:

Essentially,we have a classroom situation here.The mods are the teachers and we´re the students who don´t really pay attention to what the teachers are saying,cause,well,we ARE students after all.Thing is,there´s people NOBODY in class likes and when I say nobody I mean nobody.These people are known as "grassers","tattle-tales","slimers" etc.; Basically the people who go running to the teachers everytime the mere possibility exists that somebody could break a rule.Right now,you´re acting like these people. Considering that you´re simultaniously representing homosexuals in this debate,I´d say that´s a bad way to go,even if the japanese dude´s posts are complete nonsense.

I´ll explain my stance on the issue after I´m finished reading through the thread,I just thought this had to be said.

Aight,new post,cause this´ll take a while and I like to see different issues seperated to prevent misunderstanding.I don´t mean me misunderstanding them,as I´m obviously the most intelligent being on this planet,but you misunderstanding my pearls of wisdom.(hehehe...)

What we have here is a strangely popular TV show about people who act like homosexuals teaching "slobby heterosexuals" how to dress/decorate/whatever so insecure heterosexual X can get chicks. On the whole, shows like that are a complete waste of time.Plus,there´s no plausible reason for such a show to be aired apart from milking the gay crowd for $$$.

I´ll give you a short overview of reasons I´ve heard and why they´re bull:

"This show is great because it helps heterosexual men,who are per definition incapable of possessing any fashion-sense or other skills to impress women, get chicks."

This is complete nonsense.I´m sure everybody advocating the show in this matter is speaking of personal expierience(and not in STEREOTYPES...) when they state that heterosexual males have none of those supposedly feminine qualities,but please remember that beauty,as well as cleanness,dress-sense etc. are all in the eye of the beholder.Personally, I prefer to look manly.I´m a hairy guy who wears jeans,band shirts,spikes and has unkempt long hair.Strangely enough,I´m also the guy whose girlfriend will take shopping because I have a good dress sense,even though I have repeadetly stated that I´d prefer everybody walk around in chainmail and leather armor. I just know what looks good on a chick and I expect a lot of straight guys,hell I KNOW a lot of straight guys, who know likewise. Besides,all you gotta do to get a girl is be nice,confident and take a shower.Oh,HONESTY-both with yourself and the girl- also helps.The rest is just frills and completely unimportant even if clothing and make-up companies would prefer you think otherwise.It´s not a looks thing,it´s an ATTITUDE thing and that´s something no TV show can help you with.Unless it´s something like Rambo or Conan,because those shows are manly and have got attitude ;)

"This show is great because it shows other people what homosexuals are like and promotes tolerance."

I think the best example of why this is wrong is this thread.The show doesn´t show homosexuals in general,it shows a stereotypical version of homosexual that may apply to some,but certainly not to all.Especially not those I´ve met over the years.All this show does is reinforce stereotypes.Sure,the people playing the homosexuals might be seen as "being helpful" by the gay community,but I personally get the impression that they´re being about as helpful as any random Jehova´s Witness who tries to convert you to a "better way of life" on your doorstep. Basically,they´re turning straight guys who happen to be a bit insecure into metrosexuals who´ll be even more insecure because everybody will now ridicule them.As I have never watched the show, it may be that I am a tad mistaken about the exact effect of the "transformation",but this is what I have gathered from this thread.I do NOT call this being helpful.