NationStates Jolt Archive

Well, as you all may know (or most), The People's Republic of China, a new rising economic, as well as a military power, is now "threatening the world" (According to the U.S).

China is doing nothing more than importing and exporting, technologically advancing its military, and rising faster and faster day by day (economically). But why does all this growth result in a future threat? That is the question of this thread, and besides, I congratulate China for all their growth.

China is currently competing with the U.S economically, and in the future militarily, and probably dominate the political world. So China really is a tough competition for the U.S.

And what irritated me that most was how paranoid the U.S was by taking precautions such as -

-Criticizing China
-Putting quota limits on its textiles (although the EU did the same and industries in Britain were forced to shut down due to lack of textiles)
-The U.S fortifying Guam
-The U.S taking Japan and making it go against China
-The U.S just basically being a critic for China's growth.

And I know, China is a nuclear weapon-holding nation and is Communist. But China is only Communist by name (and other things). It has a very free economy and many of the people there are happy.

Anyway, I feel China isn't a future threat to Asia, as long as no other nation invades it.

However, do you think China is a future threat? How and why?

You just said they were building up their military! :headbang:

I congradulate the Chinese. They are living proof that Communism can prevail. Capitalism has already laid the seeds of its own destruction. Long live the world-wide socialist revolution!

You just said they were building up their military! :headbang:

Lol, I know, but still. The growth of the military doesn't necessarily mean that they will imperialize.

Now, I do have a very small feeling that the U.S is a little jealous of China because of their growth.

I congradulate the Chinese. They are living proof that Communism can prevail. Capitalism has already laid the seeds of its own destruction. Long live the world-wide socialist revolution!

Uh dude China is a capitalism.... its only socialist politicially....

-Criticizing China
-Putting quota limits on its textiles (although the EU did the same and industries in Britain were forced to shut down due to lack of textiles)
-The U.S fortifying Guam
-The U.S taking Japan and making it go against China
-The U.S just basically being a critic for China's growth.

Criticizing China is a good thing, especially if we ever want them to stop those pesky human rights violations.

Free trade really only works if your partner also has a relatively unburdened system in place as well. That really doesn't describe China that well.

We need to have assets in place should China try a forceful invasion of Taiwan or N. Korea go after S. Korea.

The Japanese suddenly like the Chinese now? Wow, news to me.

Says the one whining about the US's stance.

You just said they were building up their military! :headbang:

A little paranoid are we.... America's military budget is 10x China's and were still running around like our heads are getting chopped off

I congradulate the Chinese. They are living proof that Communism can prevail. Capitalism has already laid the seeds of its own destruction. Long live the world-wide socialist revolution!

Long live a corrupt and oppressive government Yay! ^_^

Because 1.2 billion people under the control of a totalitarian regime that is currently heading to dominate Asia is a threat. China isn't really expansionist, not like the USSR was, but it does want to be the main power in Asia (currently shared between Japan (ecconomy) and America (military) ). Since China has a long memory and still hasn't forgiven the Western powers for the insults of the Age of Imperialism, it doesn't exactly LIKE the western world and does things for its own reasons.

Having said that, I do think the US is blowing this out of porportion. China will never be another Soviet Union, nor will it start another cold war (unless the US does so). It WILL be in direct ecconomic compitition, as well as for resources, but China, througout history, has been more about infulance than direct military action.

Uh dude China is a capitalism.... its only socialist politicially....
Actually, China is a weird combination of Stalinism and Fascism taking advantage of the fact that it can get money out of the First World with it's labor. Sooner or later this will backfire as the wealth imbalance there makes the US's look marginal at best. Sooner or later, those like the stainless-steel mouse will succeed.

Criticizing China is a good thing, especially if we ever want them to stop those pesky human rights violations.

Free trade really only works if your partner also has a relatively unburdened system in place as well. That really doesn't describe China that well.

We need to have assets in place should China try a forceful invasion of Taiwan or N. Korea go after S. Korea.

The Japanese suddenly like the Chinese now? Wow, news to me.

Says the one whining about the US's stance.

Currently China's human rights are getting better and better its counter productive to yell "SCREW YOU COMMIES TASTE MY AMERICAN FIST OF RAGE"
There giving more and more rights were just a bit overparanoid and personally I think Bush is racist against Chinese :D
Not only that but its funny how were complaining about there military yet all those weapons are being bought from us

Uh dude China is a capitalism.... its only socialist politicially....

You honestly think that a government can make the fragile change from capitalism to socialism over night. To compete with the other global economies a nation must gradually work its way up to socialism. Otherwise, a newly emerged, fledging aocialist nation will be smashed by already developed capitalist economies. Capitalist pigs!

Lol, I know, but still. The growth of the military doesn't necessarily mean that they will imperialize.

You fool!! Why else would they be building up their military.

Now, I do have a very small feeling that the U.S is a little jealous of China because of their growth.

I think it's boredom. You see, after Communism collapsed in the USSR, the Cold War was at an end. At first, It seemed great that the world was finally safe from "Our enemies" and it looked like it was going to be great. After a while, our "allies" then began leaving us, and we no longer had enything to protect everyone from. There was no threat (to the US) and the world was getting "boring". That's why we invaded Iraq. We want to feel needed, so we just said Iraq was a threat to everything. We also had a hell of a time invading someone again, but It was all too fast, and now were starting to get bored again. Now that China is getting powerful, we want to start anothe Cold War, because IT WILL BE FUN!!! :D We will have someone to be paranoid about, and we'll have someone to protect everyone from! :p

Long live a corrupt and oppressive government Yay! ^_^

Hehe.

Ravenshrike, well, for one, its all assumptions when people say China will imperialize in East Asia and/or in the rest of Asia. And the Japanese and Chinese, despite many issue's, were never against each other politically or militarily, but recently on the Japanese newspaper, it says that Japan agreed to join the U.S against China politically and militarily when needed -- which totally shouldn't have been done.

I regret that about Japan, sadly.

Actually, China is a weird combination of Stalinism and Fascism taking advantage of the fact that it can get money out of the First World with it's labor. Sooner or later this will backfire as the wealth imbalance there makes the US's look marginal at best. Sooner or later, those like the stainless-steel mouse will succeed.

Actually China is definetely not Fascism its sociolist politically and anyway why the heck do you care if its strong or not it hasn't attacked america politically in any way unless it was based on Taiwan.
I've been there people overexaggerate the lack of rights and about not being able to search up democracy is b.s I've walked into chinese libraries and searched up several "Banned words"

You fool!! Why else would they be building up their military.



I think it's boredom. You see, after Communism collapsed in the USSR, the Cold War was at an end. At first, It seemed great that the world was finally safe from "Our enemies" and it looked like it was going to be great. After a while, our "allies" then began leaving us, and we no longer had enything to protect everyone from. There was no threat (to the US) and the world was getting "boring". That's why we invaded Iraq. We want to feel needed, so we just said Iraq was a threat to everything. We also had a hell of a time invading someone again, but It was all too fast, and now were starting to get bored again. Now that China is getting powerful, we want to start anothe Cold War, because IT WILL BE FUN!!! :D We will have someone to be paranoid about, and we'll have someone to protect everyone from! :p

I don't know about your boredom theory, it could be correct, lol.

Building the military could mean something else, I mean, look at Pakistan and India. Nearly 30 years and no war has been declared despite the issue over Jammu and Kashmir.

Meh. America complaining about Chinese detainment policies is the ultimate in the pot calling the kettle black.


That is the expression right? I thought about Googling (http://www.google.com) it then thought I have better things to waste my time on.

You honestly think that a government can make the fragile change from capitalism to socialism over night. To compete with the other global economies a nation must gradually work its way up to socialism. Otherwise, a newly emerged, fledging aocialist nation will be smashed by already developed capitalist economies. Capitalist pigs!

dude China became a capitalist way way way back when it figured out communism didn't work economicly...

I think Bush is rasist against Chinese :D

Well, your a moron....... :rolleyes:

Who else is he rasist against?

Well, your a moron....... :rolleyes:

Who else is he rasist against?

The entire middle east except Isreal
Russia and the AXIS OF EVIL :eek:

A war between China and the U.S - Is it likely in the future?

I congradulate the Chinese. They are living proof that Communism can prevail. Capitalism has already laid the seeds of its own destruction. Long live the world-wide socialist revolution!
Err, I'm really not sure if I would call China communist anymore. Seeing as they have Coca-Cola, and McDonalds, and multinational corporations, and all that stuff.

Surely China's slow slide towards state-planned semi-capitalism isn't your "world-wide socialist revolution", is it?

The entire middle east except Isreal
Russia and the AXIS OF EVIL :eek:

Lol. Yup, big idiot.... :rolleyes:

Unless your just joking....

A war between China and the U.S - Is it likely in the future?

I don't think so China has never gone against the U.S except when it comes to Taiwan... sigh personally I think if China invades Taiwan everyone will use it as an excuse to invade China

I've been there people overexaggerate the lack of rights and about not being able to search up democracy is b.s I've walked into chinese libraries and searched up several "Banned words"
You've been there AS A FOREIGNER. You looked up the words ONCE, maybe TWICE on a public terminal. Be really funny if you applied for citizenship and then sat at that same terminal and searched various banned terms over and over again, especially if you started to speak out against their government. I, for one, would laugh my ass off.

Lol. Yup, big idiot.... :rolleyes:

Unless your just joking....

Gasp!!! I agree with Bush the axis of evil and middle east suicide bombers Must be STOPPED!!!! :D

A war between China and the U.S - Is it likely in the future?

Nah, I really just don't think either side is just that dumb. I mean, despite how China may look to some, I see no reason why they would explicitly want a war.

On an off topic note, I hope this discussion stays as light hearted, and level headed as it sort of is now.

Calm down against the hate against Karaska, he's just expressing his opinions.

:D

dude China became a capitalist way way way back when it figured out communism didn't work economicly...
Damn... and I thought The Great Leap Forward would be a rip roaring success...

PLAESE NOTE SARCASM

You've been there AS A FOREIGNER. You looked up the words ONCE, maybe TWICE on a public terminal. Be really funny if you applied for citizenship and then sat at that same terminal and searched various banned terms over and over again, especially if you started to speak out against their government. I, for one, would laugh my ass off.

*cough cough* I have relatives there who are protesting against the chinese government and from what I know they haven't been shot or arrested yet :D

Calm down against the hate against Karaska, he's just expressing his opinions.

:D

Yay here have a cookie *hands cookie*

*cough cough* I have relatives there who are protesting against the chinese government and from what I know they haven't been shot or arrested yet :D
*sighs* If you protest in any sort of mass demonstration your chances of being caught are exceedingly slim when the cops come to break it up unless you are in an enclosed area with easily blockable exits. It's a whole 'nother ball-game to actually publish anything and take a much more active role in criticization.

Calm down against the against Karaska, he's just expressing his opinions.

:D

The stupidest, most idiotic opinions ever! If he really was rasist towards the Arabs, don't you think he'd be genociding them all right now?

Lol, thanks -Takes the cookie and eats it-

Anyway, China and the U.S. What nation's economy will prevail in the future?

you know what i hate? people who belive japan has its own rights they cant have a suficent millitary they surendered we only left our ocupation of japan becuase of korea and those damn commies invading south korea we have limits on thier miltary. if japan sided with the "axis of evil" agian i cease to think they last a chance or have the right mind to do so. and china dont make me laugh! its amazing eh? that they are finally getting up to date with "western" societies. they can match population nothing more and what would china gasin from any nieghbors? they all lack "farmable" land japan is the most densely populated country on the planet. north korea is in the middle of horrible famine south korea is heavily populated. all other countries are mountainous or already heavily populated besides the fact that if chiona go impiralist the UN will certianly call for a declaration of war on china by all nations

my opion on this china BS

*sighs* If you protest in any sort of mass demonstration your chances of being caught are exceedingly slim when the cops come to break it up unless you are in an enclosed area with easily blockable exits. It's a whole 'nother ball-game to actually publish anything and take a much more active role in criticization.

The problem is China is very much like America when it comes to protests the chinese government doesn't care about protests they just ignore you :D
Kind of like Bush and the anti war protestors he just pretend they don't exist none of the protests my relatives have been in have ever been broken up except one because some guy launched a fire cracker hehehe

The stupidest, most idiotic opinions ever! If he really was rasist towards the Arabs, don't you think he'd be genociding them all right now?
Dude isn't that whats he doing :D
And anyway I'm just joking around I thought people would figure it out by the enormious amount of smilies I used...

The stupidest, most idiotic opinions ever! If he really was rasist towards the Arabs, don't you think he'd be genociding them all right now?
Genocide is not the only form of racism.

The problem is China is very much like America when it comes to protests the chinese government doesn't care about protests they just ignore you :D
Kind of like Bush and the anti war protestors he just pretend they don't exist none of the protests my relatives have been in have ever been broken up except one because some guy launched a fire er hehehe

That's RIGHT!!!! If he doesn't do anything about the protests, then he's not oppressing the American people! I hope all the people who say "Bush is a oppressive tyrant dictator" will see that.

Edit: Cookie 4 You!!!1 :D

you know what i hate? people who belive japan has its own rights they cant have a suficent millitary they surendered we only left our ocupation of japan becuase of korea and those damn commies invading south korea we have limits on thier miltary. if japan sided with the "axis of evil" agian i cease to think they last a chance or have the right mind to do so. and china dont make me laugh! its amazing eh? that they are finally getting up to date with "western" societies. they can match population nothing more and what would china gasin from any nieghbors? they all lack "farmable" land japan is the most densely populated country on the planet. north korea is in the middle of horrible famine south korea is heavily populated. all other countries are mountainous or already heavily populated besides the fact that if chiona go impiralist the UN will certianly call for a declaration of war on china by all nations

my opion on this china BS

Actually China has a lot of fertile land if you study a map about it and personally being an American/chinese/Taiwanese I would have to say that America is the last people who can talk about imperialism

We sooo abused the indians.. :(

*SNIP*
Want to try that one again, this time with puncuation so it's actually readable?

Bush vs Hintao, who's a better leader?

Yay here have a cookie *hands cookie*
You never give me cookies... :(

We sooo abused the indians.. :(

I agree with you on that. I really h8 it when people say we are the best, most kind nation ever, when we did this to the people who came before us. :headbang:

Bush vs Hintao, who's a better leader?

I would have to say as a leader Hintao, at least Hintao is actually concentrating on the economy and helping China grow on the underhand Bush has thrown us into a worthless war and his partners are stupid

Notice I'm saying as a leader I think democracy is better than sociolism but I really do think Bush is a horrible leader

The USA is constantly upgrade and expanding its military. Why would it need to do that? Because they can and so can China.


War? Yeah right, A war against China anytime within the next 20 or 30 years would leave the USA bankrupt and China back in poverty(Not to mention a 1.3 billion Chinese extremely angry with the US). The death toll would be enormous on both sides. After say 2030 the USA is not even guaranteed a 'win'.

You never give me cookies... :(

Awww here *hands cookie* I can always bake some more!! :D

Yeah, India and China should be on good terms. Pakistan and China are on really good terms though.

The USA is constantly upgrade and expanding its military. Why would it need to do that? Because they can and so can China.


War? Yeah right, A war against China anytime within the next 20 or 30 years would leave the USA bankrupt and China back in poverty(Not to mention a 1.3 billion Chinese extremely angry with the US). The death toll would be enormous on both sides. After say 2030 the USA is not even guaranteed a 'win'.

That would kill both our nations. China relies on America to help modernize the state with foreign buisnesses and they also need us to buy their products. We on the otherhand have China make everything for us... and in some cases then go over to Europe and sell it at a higher price. A war would kill both of us

You know, whatever Karaska has been saying from the first post he made in this thread until now, I've been agreeing with him 100%, lol.

I agree with you on that. I really h8 it when people say we are the best, most kind nation ever, when we did this to the people who came before us. :headbang:

yeah its really sad I really wish our government did more for them but on the happier note the casino monopoly they have is slowly turning them into a new Las Vegas, some of the rich fat asses in our country are complaining about that... those jerks...

You know, whatever Karaska has been saying from the first post he made in this thread until now, I've been agreeing with him 100%, lol.

good I need mental support!! :D

Lol. Sorry, got to go all, I'll be posting here tomorrow if this thread is still popular.

I think the whole issue with China is the US government trying to bring back the cold war, and what better country to do so than the country that will have a better economy by the year 2010. It's pathetic really, watching the capitalist governments of the world looking for the next "bad guy", religious groups, and lets not forget the "Godless Communists". As a proud member of the Communist party I congradulate the Chinese on building a VERY impressive military and economy. Hopefully we can see the same thing from Russia in the near future, I feel that the Russian people have had enough of "Freedom" and want to bring back a government that isn't riddled with mob bosses and CEOs.

"It is true that freedom is precious, so precious that is must be carefully rationed." -Vladimir Lenin

I think the whole issue with China is the US government trying to bring back the cold war, and what better country to do so than the country that will have a better economy by the year 2010. It's pathetic really, watching the capitalist governments of the world looking for the next "bad guy", religious groups, and lets not forget the "Godless Communists". As a proud member of the Communist party I congradulate the Chinese on building a VERY impressive military and economy. Hopefully we can see the same thing from Russia in the near future, I feel that the Russian people have had enough of "Freedom" and want to bring back a government that isn't riddled with mob bosses and CEOs.

"It is true that freedom is precious, so precious that is must be carefully rationed." -Vladimir Lenin

wow may I ask what your nationality is? because I might cry with joy if your a certain nationality.
However you should know that China is a capitalist economicly.....

You know, whatever Karaska has been saying from the first post he made in this thread until now, I've been agreeing with him 100%, lol.

Even when he said Bush is a rasist?

I would have to say as a leader Hintao, at least Hintao is actually concentrating on the economy and helping China grow on the underhand Bush has thrown us into a worthless war and his partners are stupid

Notice I'm saying as a leader I think democracy is better than sociolism but I really do think Bush is a horrible leader
A blind, shit-faced, retarded monkey could make the Chinese economy grow rapidly. There is sooo much underutilization of resources there it's not funny. OTOH India is in much the same position with less land and look how much faster their economy has begun to grow compared to the Chinese economy.

Err, I'm really not sure if I would call China communist anymore. Seeing as they have Coca-Cola, and McDonalds, and multinational corporations, and all that stuff.

Surely China's slow slide towards state-planned semi-capitalism isn't your "world-wide socialist revolution", is it?

It isn't my world-wide socialist revolution. It's Lenins. No ,not John Lenin you morons, Vladimir Lenin. Once the U.S.S.R. is reincarnated, China will lean more towards socialism with Soviet support. And yes, the Soviet Union can be reincarnated. All that the Russian citizens need is a good leader and an organized and effective revolutionary group, much like the Bolsheviks were. One day capitalism will crumble, and the world will know the glory that is social democracy.

It isn't my world-wide socialist revolution. It's Lenins. No ,not John Lenin you morons, Vladimir Lenin.

Lol.

Once the U.S.S.R. is reincarnated, China will lean more towards socialism with Soviet support.

China and the Soviet Union had a bad relationship during the Cold War, with Russian soldiers always ready to strick into China if they were given the order. Sino-Soviet Relations weren't so great then, why will they be friends if the Union revives?

And yes, the Soviet Union can be reincarnated.

Yes, but It's not that likely.

All that the Russian citizens need is a good leader and an organized and effective revolutionary group, much like the Bolsheviks were.

True, but they won't go back to Super Power overnight.

One day capitalism will crumble, and the world will know the glory that is social democracy.

Wow. Your an extremist commi aren't you?

Edit: Good luck on Communism btw. But as history has shown, Communism has never worked.

Lol, thanks -Takes the cookie and eats it-

Anyway, China and the U.S. What nation's economy will prevail in the future?

I'd have to say China/Japan. They are the ones currently buying up all the US debt, that's the part that noone seems willing to talk about...

I am not a Marxist, but with an examination of history its possible to extrapolate that we are heading to a communistic society. This is very far in the future though.

Awww here *hands cookie* I can always bake some more!! :D
:D

I am not a Marxist, but with an examination of history its possible to extrapolate that we are heading to a communistic society. This is very far in the future though.

IMHO, no. Humans are to selfish to live in such close community.

A blind, shit-faced, retarded monkey could make the Chinese economy grow rapidly. There is sooo much underutilization of resources there it's not funny. OTOH India is in much the same position with less land and look how much faster their economy has begun to grow compared to the Chinese economy.

Personally I don't care about India I'm American/Chinese/Taiwanese I'm happy watching the nations I care about grow
why should I try to compare them to other nations?

Edit: Good luck on Communism btw. But as history has shown, Communism has never worked.

Lol actually we were all spawned from communism at the beginning of time people would hunt together and share what they made with everyone else in their tribe the same went for the cloth makers in the tribe and everyone else.. Sooo technically our ancestors were all communists... :D

IMHO, no. Humans are to selfish to live in such close community.
By Communistic I don't mean they will live in communes. I mean a free, modern classless society( I still think there will be a government of some sort) with no rich or poor. One in which people can live up to there full potentual.

Selfishness is certainly a part of human nature, but there is no reason why we can't overcome it through education and enlightment over a period of millenia.

China is the first post WWII country to model itself after Nazi Germany. If you dont think that classifies as a threat, than your naive.

I know everyone on here are source whores, so here is my source. http://www.washtimes.com/specialreport/20050626-122138-1088r.htm

This was posted on the yahoo global news, so I'm pretty sure its accurate lol.

"We may be seeing in China the first true fascist society on the model of Nazi Germany, where you have this incredible resource base in a commercial economy with strong nationalism, which the military was able to reach into and ramp up incredible production,"

Honestly, that scares the hell out of me.

"China is the first post WWII country to model itself after Nazi Germany". If you dont think that classifies as a threat, than your naive.

I know everyone on here is source whores, so here is my source. http://www.washtimes.com/specialreport/20050626-122138-1088r.htm

This way posted on the yahoo global news, so I'm pretty sure its accurate lol.

Oh please for

one China is still spending 10x less then the U.S and as for Nazi Germany I don't exactly see them going for the gas chambers and also nationistic pride is a good thing, even our government tries to inspire us to take pride in our country

Second of all China has never gone against anyone in foreign politics unless it was in Taiwan can't you just let one country try to protect its citizens. Anti-missle systems don't mean they're going military crazy, nearly every country expands their military. If a new weapon came out I would bet my life every nation that could afford it would immedietely buy it

Three, they weren't lying at all, China could defeat Taiwan in a war thats a fact it isn't a threat

Four, protecting their oil claims is something we do everyday, we even invaded Iraq a few years back in order to stop them from building their oil and controling the trade in the middle east (I'm not talking about the current war, I'm talking about the last one)

five, "We may be seeing in China the first true fascist society on the model of Nazi Germany, where you have this incredible resource base in a commercial economy with strong nationalism, which the military was able to reach into and ramp up incredible production". A incredible resource base is what every super power has, every nation currently is commercial and third of all. every powerful democratic nation has a huge military production and as for nationalism, saying I love America means I'm trying to be a Nazi? what twisted world do you believe were in?


Being American/Chinese/Taiwanese I'm very insulted seeing such bias articles that list what every current super power is doing, every nation is scared just because China is becoming a super power and they want that title to be exclusive

-Criticizing China
Yeah, that's kind of what any self-respecting nation on the planet would be doing. They're no longer really communist, at least not in principle, but they're still an outrageously irresponsible authoritarian oligarchy. The central government is getting stronger from the loosening of economic control, not weaker - there aren't going to be any political reforms anytime soon.

Which is not to say the Chinese are happy living in the People's Republic - 300 million of them live below the Chinese poverty line, and corruption is insane. Not to mention that whatever small attempts at a liberalization of the media have been squashed in the last few months by Hu Jintao, a remarkably hard hardliner.

We don't like authoritarian oligarchies that repress their people. I mean, do you?

-Putting quota limits on its textiles (although the EU did the same and industries in Britain were forced to shut down due to lack of textiles)

They've been tightly controlling the yuan until just recently, and they've only let it devalue 2%. They didn't actually unpeg it from the dollar, they just included more currencies in the 'basket' that determines its worth. And guess which of the currencies in the basket is the one that most modifies the value of China's currency.

Yes. The dollar.

-The U.S taking Japan and making it go against China

Actually, the people 'taking Japan and making it go against China' is China. China is the one that's sending naval battlegroups through diplomatically contested oil fields in the East China Sea. Not Japan.

Also, China decided to pull that little stunt two days before the Japanese general election - a blatant attempt to influence the elections of a sovereign power. Is that considered aggressive? I think it is.

-The U.S just basically being a critic for China's growth.

This is exactly the same thing as the original point of contention, and is dismissed in the same way.

Which is not to say the Chinese are happy living in the People's Republic - 300 million of them live below the Chinese poverty line, and corruption is insane. Not to mention that whatever small attempts at a liberalization of the media have been squashed in the last few months by Hu Jintao, a remarkably hard hardliner.
They've been tightly controlling the yuan until just recently, and they've only let it devalue 2%. They didn't actually unpeg it from the dollar, they just included more currencies in the 'basket' that determines its worth. And guess which of the currencies in the basket is the one that most modifies the value of China's currency.
Actually, the people 'taking Japan and making it go against China' is China. China is the one that's sending naval battlegroups through diplomatically contested oil fields in the East China Sea. Not Japan.
Also, China decided to pull that little stunt two days before the Japanese general election - a blatant attempt to influence the elections of a sovereign power. Is that considered aggressive? I think it is.
.
1) Actually no liberation has been squashed China is like Bush they just don't give a damn what anti-war people say and stuff like that and actually if you look at timelines China is becoming more and more democratic, you think all nations can just pop up and say I'm a democracy now, no it doesn't work that way time is needed

2) If you don't want to buy it cheap go up to them and say you want to buy it at triple the price no one is stopping you

3) Actually first of all I would critize the Japanese general election too if the favorite of the year was the same man who went to pray and bow to the war criminals from world war 2, do you know how insulting it is too the chinese that the leader of the torture unit who would use human experimentals on both Chinese peasents and Allied pows was getting worshiped and praised and second of all its called the east China sea for a reason, Japan was the people who put their military in an attempt to control it first, China just said "Okay. but our military is a lot stronger now so were going to contest it like you guys now" but I guess you didn't exactly read that part of how Japan wasn't willing to let control off of the disputed areas which is why its disputed in the first place.. you think disputed areas can be fought over if there isn't another nation trying to control it too.

Oh please for

one China is still spending 10x less then the U.S

Actually, that's because we have a significantly greater amount of money to spend. In terms of the money that they spend on their military as a percentage of their GDP, it's actually higher than ours (3.3% to 4.3%.) They'll be spending more than us, just as soon as they have the money to spend.

Second of all China has never gone against anyone in foreign politics unless it was in Taiwan can't you just let one country try to protect its citizens.

Protect its citizens? They're not 'protecting' the people of Taiwan by pointing 700 short-ranged ballistic missiles at them. Taiwan poses absolutely no threat whatsoever to the Chinese mainland. It's China that's doing all the threatening.

Four, protecting their oil claims is something we do everyday, we even invaded Iraq a few years back in order to stop them from building their oil and controling the trade in the middle east

Ok, see, this is an important issue. The oil in the East China Sea isn't actually 'theirs' yet. It was being negotiated over through a diplomatic process by the two governments of Japan and China when China just through up its arms and moved in.


In short, no one would be upset if China were a growing, free and responsible nation. But it's not. It's a growing authoritarian oligarchy, and that is a real cause for concern.

That would kill both our nations. China relies on America to help modernize the state with foreign buisnesses and they also need us to buy their products. We on the otherhand have China make everything for us... and in some cases then go over to Europe and sell it at a higher price. A war would kill both of us
Wrong. It would interrupt our economy a bit and people would bitch, but they'd get over it. The difference is our market system could adapt, theirs because of the way their economy's built, couldn't.

You just said they were building up their military! :headbang:



Couldn't possibly be for "self-defense" could it?


What who say only one country can have military.

Ah, heck, better that no country had any military.
We want peace!

Actually, that's because we have a significantly greater amount of money to spend. In terms of the money that they spend on their military as a percentage of their GDP, it's actually higher than ours (3.3% to 4.3%.) They'll be spending more than us, just as soon as they have the money to spend.


Protect its citizens? They're not 'protecting' the people of Taiwan by pointing 700 short-ranged ballistic missiles at them. Taiwan poses absolutely no threat whatsoever to the Chinese mainland. It's China that's doing all the threatening.



Ok, see, this is an important issue. The oil in the East China Sea isn't actually 'theirs' yet. It was being negotiated over through a diplomatic process by the two governments of Japan and China when China just through up its arms and moved in.


In short, no one would be upset if China were a growing, free and responsible nation. But it's not. It's a growing authoritarian oligarchy, and that is a real cause for concern.

1) In this case your looking at it percentage wise in the end your still admiting every nation expands its military

2) If you must know in the U.S we have missles pointed at everyone, our missle range is so high and we have them all on the border ready to fire at anyone, in America you call it being safe in China you say their a dictatorship ready to strike at any time

3) If you must know again Japan had ships patroling the waters too, you can't suddenly say its not right for one nation to patrol water while another doesn't. China's navy was pathetic until a few years ago so they decided they would begin a patrol too. Everyone patrols borders and contested territory, America's navy is spread all over the earth.

4) A growing responsible free nation is what we hope they'll become but if you tell them too screw themselves their obviously not going to have a great idea on democracy. I've been to China and it is becoming more and more democratic. Internet blocks is a completely b.s. issue and in the chinese public school I went to we openly debated the strengths and weaknesses of different government systems
*gasp* thats right democracy was taught

But why does all this growth result in a future threat?

Anyway, I feel China isn't a future threat to Asia, as long as no other nation invades it.

However, do you think China is a future threat? How and why?

LOL....they are already a threat.

Occupation of Tibet, occupation of Aksai China and Shaksgam Valley of Kashmir, India, proliferation of nukes and missiles to Pakistan and N.Korea, the Taiwan issue, their relationship with Iran and their attempts to get into the Indian ocean region via their stooge in Burma/Myanmar are all testimony to their hegemony.

They do not look like toning down on their hegemony. They have this thing about "losing face" and they cannot go back on the Taiwan issue now after having put so much capital on the "One China" nonsense. They have successfully painted themselves into a corner in this issue.

Conflict over Taiwan is inevitable and that is reason enough to worry over their military buildup (with no change in their rhetoric).

1) Actually no liberation has been squashed

That's because the PRC couldn't have squashed it when it (the Taiwanese seperation) happened. It didn't, just plain didn't have a navy. And now that they do, there is the United States, which has vowed to protect Taiwan with its enormously more powerful navy - because Taiwan doesn't want to be part of the PRC anymore.

If the PRC could've retaken Taiwan, they would've. But they couldn't have, so the haven't.

2) If you don't want to buy it cheap go up to them and say you want to buy it at triple the price no one is stopping you

Ok. Free trade, the thing they're supposedly cosying up to, means that you don't artificially regulate your currency so that your economy has an enormous and un-capitalist advantage over every other nation on the Earth

Actually first of all I would critize the Japanese general election too if the favorite of the year was the same man who went to pray and bow to the war criminals from world war 2.

aaaaand the rest of the Japanese war-dead. While it was an extraordinarily tactless act, you could kindly note two things: first, he wasn't going there specifically to celebrate the disgusting crimes of Japanese war criminals, but all of the Japanese war dead. Second, he's stopped doing it.

Because Japan is a reasonable nation, as democratic ones have a tendency to be - at least over militaristic oligarchies.

Couldn't possibly be for "self-defense" could it?


What who say only one country can have military.

Ah, heck, better that no country had any military.
We want peace!

Yes it could be in self defence China in the early days focused on medicine and other things, their military wasn't advancing at all because they thought it wasn't important, they then their ass raped by Japan. The rape of Nanking is not something easily forgotten, if babies were used in gunshot practices in America we would expand our military too. I wouldn't want something to ever happen again in China and they're not going to give anyone a chance to invade China, just as we were never going to allow the soviet union to kick our ass so we could focus on other things.

That's because the PRC couldn't have squashed it when it (the Taiwanese seperation) happened. It didn't, just plain didn't have a navy. And now that they do, there is the United States, which has vowed to protect Taiwan with its enormously more powerful navy - because Taiwan doesn't want to be part of the PRC anymore.

If the PRC could've retaken Taiwan, they would've. But they couldn't have, so the haven't.


Ok. Free trade, the thing they're supposedly cosying up to, means that you don't artificially regulate your currency so that your economy has an enormous and un-capitalist advantage over every other nation on the Earth


aaaaand the rest of the Japanese war-dead. While it was an extraordinarily tactless act, you could kindly note two things: first, he wasn't going there specifically to celebrate the disgusting crimes of Japanese war criminals, but all of the Japanese war dead. Second, he's stopped doing it.

Because Japan is a reasonable nation, as democratic ones have a tendency to be - at least over militaristic oligarchies.

About Taiwan its definetely a big issue but I highly doubt their is going to be a war over it because no one is that stupid and second of all they think Taiwan is part of China no matter what Taiwan says because of that they don't think they have to invade it because its already part of China

Oh please for one, we always look for ways to beat our competition we in America give our farmers advantages over farmers in poorer states. If the world was that selfless we wouldn't have to worry about war

And about the Japanese, all China wants them to do is to remove the pictures of the Japanese war criminals from their temples I'm sure they weigh ten tons and its impossible and back breaking for them to just burn the pictures of those ass~@!#!@

As for all democratic nations being reasonable we're currently giving nuclear technology to India while telling every other nation to shove it, were using it for a alliance it wasn't exactly reasonable since they broke the nuclear arms deal while some other nations who aren't growing powerful didn't

There are some really well researched articles and papers
on China at the "Japan Policy Research Institute"
for those interested.

http://www.jpri.org/


They don't take corporate or government money,
so they do not have such biases.

Second, he's stopped doing it.
He has? This is news to me. Probably news to Koizumi AND the Breived Families of the War Dead Assoc, not to mention the LDP and the rest of Japan.

Because Japan is a reasonable nation, as democratic ones have a tendency to be - at least over militaristic oligarchies.
Japan is... *snort* REASONABLE? JAPAN?! BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Oh that's a good one. Got any other funnies?

1) In this case your looking at it percentage wise in the end your still admiting every nation expands its military

I'm saying that China is spending a greater proportion of its resources on a military it does not need. The United States is fighting a global war on terrorism and, though I don't particularly agree with its causation, a war in Iraq. We're fighting wars. We need a military. China is not fighting a war. Is it planning one? I don't know. But their military is becoming excessive.

2) If you must know in the U.S we have missles pointed at everyone, our missle range is so high and we have them all on the border ready to fire at anyone

Yeah, I do know. But we don't have them all pointed at a country that wants nothing more than to be left alone. We're not threatening anyone with a catastrophic missile barrage because they're attempting to extricate themselves from the outrageous pile of human rights abuse that is the PRC.

3) If you must know again Japan had ships patroling the waters too, you can't suddenly say its not right for one nation to patrol water while another doesn't.

It's in international waters! Japan patrols Japanese waters. China makes a point of patrolling waters that are not only not their sovereign territory but also legally contested.

4) A growing responsible free nation is what we hope they'll become

FantAstic. In the mean time, they're not. Hu Jintao is a wholly conservative autocrat. It's not liberalizing. They arrest dissidents virtually every day. The growing economy is doing nothing but strengthening the current, autocratic government.

He has? This is news to me. Probably news to Koizumi AND the Breived Families of the War Dead Assoc, not to mention the LDP and the rest of Japan.


Japan is... *snort* REASONABLE? JAPAN?! BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Oh that's a good one. Got any other funnies?

yeah they're going to say that Japan is the greatest democratic nation on earth lets ignore the fact that Japan has invaded Taiwan waters to take advantage of the fish population their for the 40th time and all you anti-china people out there, I read that article out of a Taiwanese paper
Thats right *gasp* a democratic nation

Oh please for one, we always look for ways to beat our competition we in America give our farmers advantages over farmers in poorer states. If the world was that selfless we wouldn't have to worry about war

Debatable. The way farm subsidies are set up in the US it's a coin toss between either our own farms crashing once they're removed or any nation that relies on the export of grain crashing. The problem is that in the US a majority of farms are no longer single-family and so could probably afford to have the subsidies taken out from under them. Not so for most other grain producing countries. The subsidies are in place to STOP american farmers from growing crops.

yeah they're going to say that Japan is the greatest democratic nation on earth lets ignore the fact that Japan has invaded Taiwan waters to take advantage of the fish population their for the 40th time and all you anti-china people out there, I read that article out of a Taiwanese paper
Thats right *gasp* a democratic nation
Were the boats in question owned by the government?

As for all democratic nations being reasonable we're currently giving nuclear technology to India while telling every other nation to shove it, were using it for a alliance it wasn't exactly reasonable since they broke the nuclear arms deal while some other nations who aren't growing powerful didn't

LOL.

What nuclear arms deal?

India is not a signatory to NPT. But still we have an impeccable record in non-proliferation, unlike China which is a signatory but still proliferated to Pakistan (and through Pakistan to N.Korea)

And the Bush-Singh deal is not just "giving nuke tech". It is more about fuel for existing nuke plants.

And about the Japanese, all China wants them to do is to remove the pictures of the Japanese war criminals from their temples I'm sure they weigh ten tons and its impossible and back breaking for them to just burn the pictures of those ass~@!#!@
*sighs* For better or for worse, once someone has been enshrined they cannot be un-enshrined. As annoying as Yasukuni-Jinja IS, they do have a point that Shinto doesn't allow for removal of an enshrined spirit, it would be somewhat akin to asking the Church to remove a saint.

People in the US should not worry.


The US spends more $ money on our military
than the rest of the world COMBINED.

I'm saying that China is spending a greater proportion of its resources on a military it does not need. The United States is fighting a global war on terrorism and, though I don't particularly agree with its causation, a war in Iraq. We're fighting wars. We need a military. China is not fighting a war. Is it planning one? I don't know. But their military is becoming excessive.



Yeah, I do know. But we don't have them all pointed at a country that wants nothing more than to be left alone. We're not threatening anyone with a catastrophic missile barrage because they're attempting to extricate themselves from the outrageous pile of human rights abuse that is the PRC.


It's in international waters! Japan patrols Japanese waters. China makes a point of patrolling waters that are not only not their sovereign territory but also legally contested.


FantAstic. In the mean time, they're not. Hu Jintao is a wholly conservative autocrat. It's not liberalizing. They arrest dissidents virtually every day. The growing economy is doing nothing but strengthening the current, autocratic government.

1) Its still saying the same thing if China was as powerful as the US obviously their spending percentage would be less since its more powerful

2) Thats true because we have them all pointed at everyone, were the most unbias nation on earth we hate everyone equally

3) Lets ask this question, how do you think Japan knew China was patrolling in waters that was contested, its because Japan was PARTROLLING IN THEM TOO, and since China is soooo undemocratic obviously the information couldn't have slipped

4) Don't even try to say you know more about the situation their then me, my relatives over their protest nearly everyday and they haven't been shot or arrested yet

He has? This is news to me. Probably news to Koizumi AND the Breived Families of the War Dead Assoc, not to mention the LDP and the rest of Japan.

Congratulations! It is news! Read the Economist! Read any newspaper! Read news.

lets ignore the fact that Japan has invaded Taiwan waters to take advantage of the fish population their for the 40th time

Are you saying that the encroachment of independent Japanese fishermen into Taiwanese... fish... territory is an imperialistic act of war tantamount to threatening to invade Taiwan if it formally declares independence AND threatening to rain nuclear weapons on the US if it attempts to protect Taiwan?

Those last two things China has done. I think we can hash out a fish deal peacefully, don't you?

Oh, and my source for that last bit was a New York Times article from July 24, 2005, NERVUN - just because news seems like something you are interested in.

With that, I must rest my aching head.

LOL.

What nuclear arms deal?

India is not a signatory to NPT. But still we have an impeccable record in non-proliferation, unlike China which is a signatory but still proliferated to Pakistan (and through Pakistan to N.Korea)

And the Bush-Singh deal is not just "giving nuke tech". It is more about fuel for existing nuke plants.

Sigh most evil argument in the world :D North Korea said it just wanted nuclear energy not war heads lol lol lol

yeah they're going to say that Japan is the greatest democratic nation on earth lets ignore the fact that Japan has invaded Taiwan waters to take advantage of the fish population their for the 40th time and all you anti-china people out there, I read that article out of a Taiwanese paper
Thats right *gasp* a democratic nation
If memory serves, those waters are also being disputed with three (four is you seperate out Taiwan from China) claiming those waters. Taiwan decided recently to up the ante by sending two US built frigates to guard its fishing fleet, into said disputed waters.

*sighs* For better or for worse, once someone has been enshrined they cannot be un-enshrined. As annoying as Yasukuni-Jinja IS, they do have a point that Shinto doesn't allow for removal of an enshrined spirit, it would be somewhat akin to asking the Church to remove a saint.

Personally the fact they consider those guys a saint it sickening....

Were the boats in question owned by the government?

Yes in fact they were, there was a massive argument because Taiwanese fishermen were kicked out and they were angry because Taiwan government isn't strong enough to stand up to Japan
"ARE TAIWANESE FISHERMEN SECOND CLASS CITIZENS" They were yelling this in a protest

And of course the *undemocratic* China thinks Taiwan is part of it so they had a huge argument with Japan while the United states kind of ignored both sides

Are you saying that the encroachment of independent Japanese fishermen into Taiwanese... fish... territory is an imperialistic act of war tantamount to threatening to invade Taiwan if it formally declares independence AND threatening to rain nuclear weapons on the US if it attempts to protect Taiwan?
With that, I must rest my aching head.

Cough cough I highly doubt the fishermen who were put out of work and into proverty would care what China was threatening since they were looking at what was happening at that time. You have to understand they care about the threat but until its happening they don't give a damn they want their job back

Congratulations! It is news! Read the Economist! Read any newspaper! Read news.
The Japan Times, Mainichi Shinbun, and Daily Yomiuri count as news? Because Prime Minister Kouzumi has stated, repeatedly, that he WILL go back to Yasukuni-Jinja. He keeps saying that, he just didn't go on either the 60th anniversary of Japan's WWII surrender or before the Sept 11th elections.

But he has said he will go back and if nothing else, he keeps his word.

The Japan Times, Mainichi Shinbun, and Daily Yomiuri count as news? Because Prime Minister Kouzumi has stated, repeatedly, that he WILL go back to Yasukuni-Jinja. He keeps saying that, he just didn't go on either the 60th anniversary of Japan's WWII surrender or before the Sept 11th elections.

But he has said he will go back and if nothing else, he keeps his word.

Hahaha without a doubt we can count our asses that he's going to go back and worship those shinto religion *saints* as one person put it.


I apologize if anyone finds my attitude hostile but I'm very sickened by the fact people like that can be prayed too, I took a small trip to Japan once and there were these little kids bowing too those guys.... that was the most disgusting thing I ever saw. Japan can't even split up the section so that one is for war criminals and one is for the people who were actually doing it for their country and not their sick pleasures

Personally the fact they consider those guys a saint it sickening....
Well, they're not really saints, thery're spirits. Kami really do not translate well into English.

Also, it should be noted that in Japanese culture, death absolves the person of all sins commited during their lives, it's why suicide was/is seen as an acceptable end should you REALLY screw up.

Having said that, yeah, Yasukuni-Jinja isn't a nice place to visit and I seriously think that Japan does need to construct a non-religious memoral to its war dead.

1) Its still saying the same thing if China was as powerful as the US obviously their spending percentage would be less since its more powerful

Ok, I make my point for the last time before I turn my back on this thread forever.

China does not need a military - Japan, with quite possibly the most pygmy-like of armies of any first world nation, is not going to be giving them a bloody nose. Ever.

The United States, like it or not, is fighting a war. Several, in fact.

And for wars, one needs a military.

2) Thats true because we have them all pointed at everyone, were the most unbias nation on earth we hate everyone equally

They're cold war relics! We don't actually publicly threaten other nations with them. In exactly the same way that China does threaten people.

3) Lets ask this question, how do you think Japan knew China was patrolling in waters that was contested, its because Japan was PARTROLLING IN THEM TOO

Ok, to be fair, yes, Japan was patrolling the area. Let us peruse a NYT article from September 11, 2005 to find out how.

Oh, look! With an observation plane! And what was the Chinese patrol composed of?

Warships. Five of them. One of them an advanced guided-missile destroyer. They're a little different, don't you think?

4) Don't even try to say you know more about the situation their then me, my relatives over their protest nearly everyday and they haven't been shot or arrested yet

Yes, they learned that doing that was extraordinarily bad for PR - right after Tiananmen Square.

And, SAY. Are your relatives protesting for FUN, or is there something like gross human rights abuses happening there?

Hahaha without a doubt we can count our asses that he's going to go back and worship those shinto religion *saints* as one person put it.


I apologize if anyone finds my attitude hostile but I'm very sickened by the fact people like that can be prayed too, I took a small trip to Japan once and there were these little kids bowing too those guys.... that was the most disgusting thing I ever saw. Japan can't even split up the section so that one is for war criminals and one is for the people who were actually doing it for their country and not their sick pleasures
*sighs* Dude... could you at least do SOME checking on Shintoism before you go and insult it? Not to mention on Japanese culture and its current feelings towards religion?

Well, they're not really saints, thery're spirits. Kami really do not translate well into English.

Also, it should be noted that in Japanese culture, death absolves the person of all sins commited during their lives, it's why suicide was/is seen as an acceptable end should you REALLY screw up.

Having said that, yeah, Yasukuni-Jinja isn't a nice place to visit and I seriously think that Japan does need to construct a non-religious memoral to its war dead.

wow that would mean Hitler is in heaven since he commited suicide doesn't it....
I have great respect for Japanese culture those war criminals in world war 2 completely trampled on their ancestors view on honor in battle and turned it into shot babies and rape women
Personally I really wish Japanese culture was differently seen but I can't do anything about it

*sighs* Dude... could you at least do SOME checking on Shintoism before you go and insult it? Not to mention on Japanese culture and its current feelings towards religion?

See my above post I have great respect for Japanese culture their ancestors were some of the most honorable people, one samurai when he saw a european try to bring the slave trade into Japan immedietely stopped it and freed the slaves while leaving the slave trader bankrupt. I don't however like what the war criminals in Japan did in world war 2

See my above post

Ok, I make my point for the last time before I turn my back on this thread forever.

China does not need a military - Japan, with quite possibly the most pygmy-like of armies of any first world nation, is not going to be giving them a bloody nose. Ever.

The United States, like it or not, is fighting a war. Several, in fact.

And for wars, one needs a military.



They're cold war relics! We don't actually publicly threaten other nations with them. In exactly the same way that China does threaten people.


Ok, to be fair, yes, Japan was patrolling the area. Let us peruse a NYT article from September 11, 2005 to find out how.

Oh, look! With an observation plane! And what was the Chinese patrol composed of?

Warships. Five of them. One of them an advanced guided-missile destroyer. They're a little different, don't you think?



Yes, they learned that doing that was extraordinarily bad for PR - right after Tiananmen Square.

And, SAY. Are your relatives protesting for FUN, or is there something like gross human rights abuses happening there?

First of all Japan completely raped China with their so called pygmy-like army I highly doubt China is not going to be afriad of them, also America was already spending that amount before the war, thats the yearly amount we use to upgrade our military not supplies for wars and such
Second of all, America went into mexico and used military force in contested territory, its how we got a huge huge Texas instead of a medium sized one
Third, I'm highly insulted don't talk about my relatives, I don't diss off your family, don't diss off mine. They went to China as doctors to help the farmers there so don't B.S when you don't know anything.

Oh please for

one China is still spending 10x less then the U.S and as for Nazi Germany I don't exactly see them going for the gas chambers and also nationistic pride is a good thing, even our government tries to inspire us to take pride in our country

Being American/Chinese/Taiwanese I'm very insulted seeing such bias articles that list what every current super power is doing, every nation is scared just because China is becoming a super power and they want that title to be exclusive
OMG...your an idiot...I wasnt talking about the holocaust...is it even possible to relate to Nazi Germany anymore WITHOUT the holocaust...I was talking about Fascism....Any Fascist state is a threat, period.

Oh shut up, you little number cruncher lol. Go do my math homework.

It's going to be a sad and surprising day for the US when China owns so much of the USs debt because of the conservative desire to bust the budget in order to take away welfare and other social entitlements. The US will become a paper tiger in the world economy, as we're already seeing with our inability to properly equip our own troops to fight a nothing war in a country that never threatened us in the first place.

-The U.S taking Japan and making it go against China

Don't the Japanese naturally despise China?

Don't the Japanese naturally despise China?
Um... no... actually a lot of Japanese LIKE the Chinese and seem to be a bit hurt and confused why China is currently in full Japan hating mode.

Um... no... actually a lot of Japanese LIKE the Chinese and seem to be a bit hurt and confused why China is currently in full Japan hating mode.
war criminals in temples, rewriting the textbooks even with respect to japanese culture its hard for Chinese to accept that there are no protests about this going on in Japan itself, this leads a lot of people to feel upset because they feel Japanese citizens support war criminals since there aren't any mass protests going on about this

war criminals in temples, rewriting the textbooks even with respect to japanese culture its hard for Chinese to accept that there are no protests about this going on in Japan itself, this leads a lot of people to feel upset because they feel Japanese citizens support war criminals since there aren't any mass protests going on about this
*sighs* One shrine, just one. There are literally THOUSANDS of Shinto shrines all over Japan and the class As are enshrined at ONE of them. The textbook that everyone is up in arms over is used in less than 1% of the junior high schools in Japan, far, far less than the target that that particular right-wingnut group wanted.

Why is this so? Because the Japanese public protested each time a district decided to maybe adopt said book. Japan just doesn't have the large protest culture, they're there, but they are MUCH smaller (and a lot more politer) than other countries so you rarely hear of them. But most Japanese are well aware what happened, they feel that they have appoligized repeatedly about this, but CHINA (and Korea(s)) won't let this go. But, rather amuzingly, these protests always seem to erupt whenever China is either having a. Internal problems that the people cannot mass protest against. b. Having a dispute with Japan over something not related to the war, like say territorial differences.

While I agree that Japan really has not faced what it has done, I also disagree with China and Korea's claims as they always suspiciously appear whenever their respective goverments wants to detract their people from something going on within their countries or want to apply preassure on Japan in the international arena.

China and Korea are not nearly the injured innocents in the face of Japanese arogence and unrepentence that they claim to be, just as Japan is not the victim of WWII like IT would like to be.

Folks,

pl keep in mind that many of the "protests" by the Chinese are not as spontaneous as it is made out to be by the CPC.

It is ironical to see the CPC indoctrinated drones spouting the lines fed by the CPC which has killed more Chinese than the Japanese...

Of course, this does not in any way condone or trivialise what the Japanese imperial army did...but I do think that the Japanese have apologized and the Chinese have milked the issue for what its worth. The Japanese have heavily invested in the coastal areas and have off-shored their manufacturing there and are partly responsible for the Chinese manufacturing boom.

So, don't kill the golden goose, else they will turn away to other cheap manufacturing bases like...say India.

Not that I am complaining.. ;)

*sighs* One shrine, just one. There are literally THOUSANDS of Shinto shrines all over Japan and the class As are enshrined at ONE of them. The textbook that everyone is up in arms over is used in less than 1% of the junior high schools in Japan, far, far less than the target that that particular right-wingnut group wanted.

Why is this so? Because the Japanese public protested each time a district decided to maybe adopt said book. Japan just doesn't have the large protest culture, they're there, but they are MUCH smaller (and a lot more politer) than other countries so you rarely hear of them. But most Japanese are well aware what happened, they feel that they have appoligized repeatedly about this, but CHINA (and Korea(s)) won't let this go. But, rather amuzingly, these protests always seem to erupt whenever China is either having a. Internal problems that the people cannot mass protest against. b. Having a dispute with Japan over something not related to the war, like say territorial differences.

While I agree that Japan really has not faced what it has done, I also disagree with China and Korea's claims as they always suspiciously appear whenever their respective goverments wants to detract their people from something going on within their countries or want to apply preassure on Japan in the international arena.

China and Korea are not nearly the injured innocents in the face of Japanese arogence and unrepentence that they claim to be, just as Japan is not the victim of WWII like IT would like to be.

1)That means Japan is worse off than I thought... I just thought there was one shrine and now I hear that their worshiped all over Japan

2) Textbooks, get rid of them I've never been taught in Japan so I wouldn't know but the very fact that something like that is allowed is disgusting if its used so few times than just get rid of it rather than complain that everyone is overreacting

3) Injured innocents, do you really know what was going on there, Japan used babies for target practice. If someone was to rape your mom repeatedly and then laugh and use your dad for a head chopping contest I don't think you would give a damn how many times they apologized. If Japan really wants to apologize can they at least build a memorial to respect what happened. All Japan has done is apologize with words and then do nothing about it. Thats not a truthful apology.

4) Actually those protests were created after Japan stated that they had just released new textbooks which were later found out to glorify what they did. Not only that but the officials in China definetely didn't do that because they were pissing in there pants because they were scared.

I congradulate the Chinese. They are living proof that Communism can prevail. Capitalism has already laid the seeds of its own destruction. Long live the world-wide socialist revolution!

I assume you're being sarcastic. As a communist, I can't let you say that China is communist. It's no more "communist" than Japan is. If you believe otherwise, I strongly suggest you look up a few definitions of communism.

1)That means Japan is worse off than I thought... I just thought there was one shrine and now I hear that their worshiped all over Japan
Re-read that, there is ONE shrine that enshrines those criminals. There are THOUSANDS of Shinto shrines that do not. And only a very, very small percent in Japan actually aprove of the enshrining of them at Yasukuni-jinja. Yasukuni isn't even a major Shinto shrine.

2) Textbooks, get rid of them I've never been taught in Japan so I wouldn't know but the very fact that something like that is allowed is disgusting if its used so few times than just get rid of it rather than complain that everyone is overreacting
Yes, it would be MUCH better if Japan compleately ignored the idea of free market, freedom of thought, and the like. While I disagree with the damn textbook, I have to admit the right of the idiots who wrote the damn thing to say and believe what they will. The fact that it is not being used widely shows that the Japanese don't care for the ideas espoused either. Japan however has shown enormous restraint though as it would be so easy to critizise CHINESE textbooks that, oh, you know, forget that the Great Leap Forward or the Cultural Revolution, events that killed more Chinese than the Imperial Japanese Army ever did, happened.

3) Injured innocents, do you really know what was going on there, Japan used babies for target practice. If someone was to rape your mom repeatedly and then laugh and use your dad for a head chopping contest I don't think you would give a damn how many times they apologized. If Japan really wants to apologize can they at least build a memorial to respect what happened. All Japan has done is apologize with words and then do nothing about it. Thats not a truthful apology.
Japan has yet to build one, yes, and I think it should. But Japan has apologized and has paid massive amounts of money in aid to China. China was the one who signed the peace treaty abridging the right of its own people to seek redress from the Japanese goverment years ago... Look to your own country.

4) Actually those protests were created after Japan stated that they had just released new textbooks which were later found out to glorify what they did. Not only that but the officials in China definetely didn't do that because they were pissing in there pants because they were scared.
Bullshit. Massive protests in China happened and the police, to a man, did NOTHING? They all spontaniously decided to look aside as people rampaged through the streets? But yet, when the protests started to turn against the CCP, they all suddenly remembered their duties?

Bullshit, this was allowed and encouraged. The CCP has a fine history of using such protests as its own tool, don't tell me that it wasn't done without the tact approval from the goverment, not in China it wasn't.

And the reason I state that these protests are more about what's going on today is because I have to ask you, where were they 50 years ago? 30 years ago? 10 years ago? It's been over 60 years and NOW suddenly China is mad? No, this is being used as a poltical tool by the CCP. Does Japan need to face what happened? Yes, it does, and it has started to, every generation finds out more and more and comes to terms with it. But you cannot tell me that this mass movement is all in innocence.

Folks,

pl keep in mind that many of the "protests" by the Chinese are not as spontaneous as it is made out to be by the CPC.

It is ironical to see the CPC indoctrinated drones spouting the lines fed by the CPC which has killed more Chinese than the Japanese...

Of course, this does not in any way condone or trivialise what the Japanese imperial army did...but I do think that the Japanese have apologized and the Chinese have milked the issue for what its worth. The Japanese have heavily invested in the coastal areas and have off-shored their manufacturing there and are partly responsible for the Chinese manufacturing boom.

So, don't kill the golden goose, else they will turn away to other cheap manufacturing bases like...say India.

Not that I am complaining.. ;)Those protests reminded me so much of what the Nazis were doing to the Jews prior to their take over...

Dude you been playing to much Battlefield 2

China is not really an enemy.

The USA is currently working with them to resolve the Nuclear talks about NK. So how then are they exactly an enemy? Why would China just wanna nuke America? Makes no sense at all....They're the ones that are kicking our ass in steel industry!
Iran is more of an threat then China

Taiwan is the only nation that is really threaten by China

And China by the way is not really a Communist state (i know someone alrady mention this). They created Economic zones that use free enterprise, are beinging to sell cheap steel (which is killing our jobs here in the states so maybe it would be better if it was commie). And they Promise that by the time the olympic games come to China that they will straghten out their human rights treatment. In fact i once saw on the Discovery channel a report about China and ever since they won the right to the Olympics they been pushing to rebuild China and make it look more like something you would see in downtown New York....free enterprises everywhere

Also if you ever look at any of the Communist websites they hate want China has become

They aren't a threat now but in 20-40 years they will be. Free Taiwan!

Re-read that, there is ONE shrine that enshrines those criminals. There are THOUSANDS of Shinto shrines that do not. And only a very, very small percent in Japan actually aprove of the enshrining of them at Yasukuni-jinja. Yasukuni isn't even a major Shinto shrine.


Yes, it would be MUCH better if Japan compleately ignored the idea of free market, freedom of thought, and the like. While I disagree with the damn textbook, I have to admit the right of the idiots who wrote the damn thing to say and believe what they will. The fact that it is not being used widely shows that the Japanese don't care for the ideas espoused either. Japan however has shown enormous restraint though as it would be so easy to critizise CHINESE textbooks that, oh, you know, forget that the Great Leap Forward or the Cultural Revolution, events that killed more Chinese than the Imperial Japanese Army ever did, happened.


Japan has yet to build one, yes, and I think it should. But Japan has apologized and has paid massive amounts of money in aid to China. China was the one who signed the peace treaty abridging the right of its own people to seek redress from the Japanese goverment years ago... Look to your own country.


Bullshit. Massive protests in China happened and the police, to a man, did NOTHING? They all spontaniously decided to look aside as people rampaged through the streets? But yet, when the protests started to turn against the CCP, they all suddenly remembered their duties?

Bullshit, this was allowed and encouraged. The CCP has a fine history of using such protests as its own tool, don't tell me that it wasn't done without the tact approval from the goverment, not in China it wasn't.

And the reason I state that these protests are more about what's going on today is because I have to ask you, where were they 50 years ago? 30 years ago? 10 years ago? It's been over 60 years and NOW suddenly China is mad? No, this is being used as a poltical tool by the CCP. Does Japan need to face what happened? Yes, it does, and it has started to, every generation finds out more and more and comes to terms with it. But you cannot tell me that this mass movement is all in innocence.

1) If they don't approve of it how come there aren't any protests and the prime minister is able to be so popular by visiting that exact temple instead of the thousands of shinto shrines out there

2) This battle goes to you :D . Except keep in mind Germany made it illegal to deny the holocaust ever happened. Sometimes there should be a limit. Not only that but the difference is if Japan glorifies what it did to China then your getting China involved. If China wants to screw up its own textbooks as long as it has nothing to do with you, you have no right to get involved. If Japan was to post a textbook editing that Japanese Samurai's were so noble and they never did anything wrong I wouldn't give a damn its not involving me. Not only that but studying in China, the cultural revolution is talked about and although it isn't considered holocaust level its regarded by the people I studied with as a good idea turned bad (They were trying to modernize after world war 2 but it turned into a type of no culture should be allowed).

3) By massive amounts of money you mean not even .01 percent of Japan's budget.....

4) Personally I would forgive Japan immedietely if a news story came out that Japanese school children had protested against the prime minister going to that temple. I would probably cry for joy but currently if people don't even hold a protest what am I suppose to think? Naturally I think they approve of it.

5) That protest was bad I admit it but it was started immedietely after Japan's new textbooks came out so you can't say its government run. What do you think they did,
Chinese official "PSSS hey all of you come here"
Random people "What is it"
"I'm give you all five bucks if you start running around like maniacs"
"SWEET"!!!
Naturally I do think it was probably government encouraged but I do not think it was government run because they were trying to stop it early on they just couldn't get their police under control because ...well the salary isn't so great that a policeman would walk into a 1/5 of the world's population and tell them to piss off :D

Not only that but it wasn't as bad as you think, no one got killed there was just a lot of rock throwing at buildings, flag burning and telling everyone to piss off

Ok, last time as we have hijacked this thread enough. If you wanna continue this debate, create a new thread, but this one is supposed to be about China's threat to the US, not Japan.

1) If they don't approve of it how come there aren't any protests and the prime minister is able to be so popular by visiting that exact temple instead of the thousands of shinto shrines out there
He isn't popular for visiting there actually. A lot of Japanese are not happy that he is, and many of those who are in agreement with Koizumi's visitis often state that they don't like Yasukuni-Jinja, but they are happy to see a politican who keeps his promises (a rarity in Japan) and won't be pushed around by China. In any case:
http://www.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/getarticle.pl5?nn20050816a6.htm
But in reality, the story is not that simple. Media opinion polls suggest that more Japanese now oppose Koizumi's visit to the Shinto shrine compared with similar surveys conducted this spring.

http://www.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/getarticle.pl5?nn20050816a5.htm
But at the Japan Education Center, in Chiyoda Ward's Jimbocho district, some 300 people attended an event organized by relatives of war dead who are against politicians visiting Yasukuni Shrine.

http://www.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/getarticle.pl5?nn20050810b2.htm
OSAKA (Kyodo) Japanese and Korean plaintiffs filed an appeal Tuesday with the Supreme Court over a high court's decision last month to dismiss their lawsuit claiming Prime Minister Junichiro Koizumi's August 2001 visit to Yasukuni Shrine was unconstitutional.

These are recent (the archive goes back to August and I ain't going to pay money to pull news articles for you to show that in Japan, this is a contencious issue) articles on internal Japanese reaction to Yasukuni-Jinja, including that right now, Kouzumi is being sued in three courts for violation of church and state. All of Japan isn't backing him, HALF of Japan isn't backing him. But Koizumi is a very, very stuborn man.

2) This battle goes to you :D . Except keep in mind Germany made it illegal to deny the holocaust ever happened. Sometimes there should be a limit. Not only that but the difference is if Japan glorifies what it did to China then your getting China involved. If China wants to screw up its own textbooks as long as it has nothing to do with you, you have no right to get involved. If Japan was to post a textbook editing that Japanese Samurai's were so noble and they never did anything wrong I wouldn't give a damn its not involving me.
One textbook out of the 7 uses language that isn't as harsh as its counterparts, and that is used by less than 1% of the junior high schools.
http://www.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/getarticle.pl5?nn20050807f1.htm
Gives some history on history textbooks. See, CHINA'S media tends to gloss over the fact that, actually, most of the books use the word invasion, comfort women, rape of Nanking, and faces Japanese actions in WWII. What does China want then? The books say what happened, what else do you want out of the textbooks? And again, since America wrote Japan's constutition, and we Americans are sticklers for this, we included a freedom of the press in there, as well as freedom of thought in order to avoid the thought police that Japan had during the war. We're Americans, it's something that we do.

Also, the people did protest that particular book as well. Both sides claim that is the reason it wasn't addopted.
http://www.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/getarticle.pl5?nn20050902a6.htm
"I think our grassroots campaign against the textbook won the result," said Yoshifumi Tawara, secretary general of Children and Textbooks Japan Network 21.

Not only that but studying in China, the cultural revolution is talked about and although it isn't considered holocaust level its regarded by the people I studied with as a good idea turned bad (They were trying to modernize after world war 2 but it turned into a type of no culture should be allowed).
Let me see here:
Great Leap Forward: 30 million people dead
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Leap_Forward

Cultural Revolution: Offically, only 500,000 people dead, however as Wikipedia notes, "The true death toll may range from hundred of thousands to a few million, but the state of Chinese demographics at the time, combined with the reluctance of the PRC to allow serious research into the period, means that the real figures are unlikely ever to be known." But most western countries believe 2 to 3 million died, not to mention the incalcuable loss of Chinese history.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_Revolution

China's deaths in WWII, 3.1 million military, 9 million civilans.

But, strangely enough, students in China find out much, much more about WWII deaths than the ones caused by their own goverment... hmm... Want to tell me again that the CCP isn't trying to focus the attention of the Chinese outside so they don't start seeing what happened?

3) By massive amounts of money you mean not even .01 percent of Japan's budget..... I'm talking about trillions of yen over the years to China, that keeps going, even though many Japanese are wondering why a country that is quickly catching up to them in terms of ecconomic power needs monitary aid. And like I said, CHINA signed the peace treaty that agreed to little repartitions AND blocked their own citizens from claiming repartitions from Japan. And no, you can't say Japan forced this on China, Japan at the time was ending its own occupation by US forces, it couldn't foce anything if it wanted to.

4) Personally I would forgive Japan immedietely if a news story came out that Japanese school children had protested against the prime minister going to that temple. I would probably cry for joy but currently if people don't even hold a protest what am I suppose to think? Naturally I think they approve of it.
They do, but in reading China's media, I never see mention of this. Given the state control of the media in China, I ain't surprised.

5) Naturally I do think it was probably government encouraged but I do not think it was government run because they were trying to stop it early on they just couldn't get their police under control because ...well the salary isn't so great that a policeman would walk into a 1/5 of the world's population and tell them to piss off :D
Oh yes, goverment encouraged and goverment approved. And I KNOW if China wanted to stop the protests its police could do so. They did remarkably well after a few protests happened and the Chinese goverment decided to crack down, and let's not forget Tiananmen Square, China can stop protests when it wants to, don't try to say that it cannot.

Not only that but it wasn't as bad as you think, no one got killed there was just a lot of rock throwing at buildings, flag burning and telling everyone to piss off
Just destruction of businesses and the Japanese embassy, no problem at all. Lots of damage, which China refuses to pay for.

Like I said, this will be my last post in this topic, make a new one of you want to continue.

-Bump-

New Japanese textbooks are to be released.

The Shinto Shrine shouldn't be a problem, because they died for Japan (Don't get me as bias).