NationStates Jolt Archive


Frightening as hell: Iran's access to the US via Germany?

Eutrusca
20-09-2005, 12:21
COMMENTARY: This is scary as hell! What do you think is the liklihood of the US being attacked in this way by Iran?


A German veto?


FRANK J. GAFFNEY JR.
By Frank J. Gaffney, Jr.
September 20, 2005

Years ago, the peace movement came up with a catchy rhetorical question: "What if they had a war and nobody came?" Incredibly, the Pentagon may soon see what happens if the U.S. military cannot get to a war without permission from an unlikely quarter: our sometime "ally," Germany.
Recent developments make it increasingly likely America will be required to use force to prevent the terrorist-sponsoring Islamofascist regime in Iran from wielding nuclear weapons against us, our interests and friends. The U.N. visit last week of the Iranian mullahs' handpicked President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad made clear his regime was not only determined to press ahead with its ever-less-secret nuclear weapons program. He also declared Tehran was willing to share its "nuclear technology" with other Islamic states.
This brazenness has flummoxed the so-called European Union 3 -- Britain, France and Germany -- who have tried to appease Iran into making empty promises to give up its nuclear ambitions. While there is some talk out of Europe about finally acceding to U.S. demands to take the matter to the United Nations, don't hold your breath.
Even if the Europeans could screw up their courage to take such a step, Vladimir Putin and his Chinese friends have dug in their heels. The Iranians have been assured Russia and China will prevent any U.N. unpleasantness -- even economic sanctions, to say nothing of the authorized use of force.
Thus emboldened, Iran is intensifying efforts to undo the liberation of Iraq. It is undermining bids for freedom in Afghanistan and Lebanon. And Tehran is helping ensure the power vacuum created by Israel's surrender of Gaza will result in a new Islamofascist safe-haven for terror.
If this were not bad enough, the mullahocracy is taking steps that will enable it directly to threaten to do to the entire United States what Hurricane Katrina did to one region's electrical grid, energy resources, telecommunications systems and other infrastructure: Cripple them.
According to the 2004 report of a blue-ribbon commission tasked with assessing the threat of electromagnetic pulse (EMP) attack on the United States, Iran has demonstrated the ability to conduct such a devastating strike. It has launched a short-range missile from a ship. It has also tested its new, medium-range Shahab-3 ballistic missile in a manner consistent with detonating a nuclear weapon in space -- the scenario the EMP Threat Commission said could cause "catastrophic" damage to the United States.
Now come published reports the Iranians not only are obtaining the capability to go to war with the United States. They persuade themselves they can do so successfully.
But, though such circumstances may compel the United States to act forcibly against Iran, it is not clear if the Army, Navy and Office of the Defense Secretary and perhaps the Air Force will be able to participate in such an operation.
It turns out the first two of our armed services and the Pentagon's civilian bureaucracy rely upon a German software company called SAP to handle their administrative and logistics functions. All other things being equal, the Air Force may decide to follow suit by month's end.
As a result, any future military operation against Iran might have to be conducted exclusively by the U.S. Marine Corps. For that service alone has decided to use a U.S. software firm to meet the information management needs associated with things like day-to-day operations, personnel, location, storage and movement of weapons inventories, financial matters (like bank accounts) and other, often prosaic, but vital functions.
There are, of course, several things wrong with this. One is German Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder -- who, at this writing, may just manage to hold onto, or at least share, power after Sunday's inconclusive parliamentary elections. Mr. Schroeder previously exploited for electoral gain his vehement opposition to the U.S.-led liberation of Iraq. He tried to do so again with respect to Iran in the run-up to the recent balloting, declaring: "Let's take the military option off the table. We have seen it doesn't work."
Then, there is the problem that the company distributes SAP solutions in Iran. In fact, the sort of software it uses to support the U.S. military is available for sale to others with whom the German government has no problem doing business. Such ties could cause the company to be reluctant to help one customer destroy another. Or the Iranians could glean insights from their access to SAP programs that would facilitate cyber-warfare aimed at disabling ours.
Even if SAP did its job for the Pentagon competently -- and successive Government Accountability Office reports demonstrate it is not doing so, it is foolish at best and reckless at worst to have our military depend upon foreign suppliers for such critical functions. After hearing testimony in July about such vulnerabilities, House Armed Services Committee Chairman Duncan Hunter, California Republican, promised oversight hearings about the armed services' seeming unconcern about relying upon possibly unreliable purveyors of vital components, materials and technology. Those hearings can't come too soon.
At the very least, the Marines could use help from the Air Force if it comes to blows with Iran. That may only be possible, however, if someone decides our airmen -- unlike their Army and Navy counterparts -- should be supported by software that doesn't give Germany a veto.

Frank J. Gaffney, Jr. is president of the Center for Security Policy and a columnist for The Washington Times.
Laerod
20-09-2005, 12:36
This guy has a serious problem. His article is so full of bias I question the veracity of his conclusions.
Hinterlutschistan
20-09-2005, 12:37
I'm frankly torn apart between ridiculing and picking apart this piece of propaganda hype and supporting it, if only for the fact that SAP sucks huge donkey bits. But I'll try to find a response as sensible as possible.

First of all, SAP, like all multinational corporations, don't give a damn about governments, as long as they offer low enough taxes. Socialist, fascist, who cares as long as it ain't communist, that would certainly threaten your shareholder value. Thus SAP neither supports nor opposes the political course the German government is driving. It sells its stuff, like all companies. And they sell it wherever they're finding someone to buy it.

Second, just 'cause you use SAP you don't automatically know how to "hack" into another SAP user. You're using Windows, I assume. Does that make you capable of taking over other Windows boxes? I'm also pretty sure that the companies in Iran are using Windows as well, why the outburst against SAP and not Microsoft?

But at least I slowly get an idea where the big fear of terrorism comes from. Paranoia is also a way to feel less alone in this cold world...
SoWiBi
20-09-2005, 13:05
tank you, laerod, for already saying the basic thing.

i started out reading the article and highlighting all the stuff that was either riducous, plain wrong or biased, and then i wanted to copy all those and take them apart in my answer post, but they were so amyn i gave up and just second the two follow-up posts.

*shakes head in disblelief* -> and this by you, eutrusca
Non Aligned States
20-09-2005, 13:08
I put this guy (author) in the same bin that I put the guy who wrote the book claiming Canada of all places was a terrorist haven. The rubbish bin.
Compulsive Depression
20-09-2005, 13:09
So many fnords, so little time.

The article sounds so paranoid it's almost funny.
Beorhthelm
20-09-2005, 13:11
who writes this crap? who has the time and the intelligence to knit together such an elaborate plot, yet so dumb as to not see that its a pile of stemming crap. Did this Frank Gaffney chap actually get paid for writing that? Is the Washington Times a real newspaper or just a local rag with piss poor editors who cant see through such poor quality commentry.

More importantly, who reads it and thinks it worthy to copy/paste onto a forum?
SoWiBi
20-09-2005, 13:11
I put this guy (author) in the same bin that I put the guy who wrote the book claiming Canada of all places was a terrorist haven. The rubbish bin

so they can ahve fun with the guy who claimed there to be a homosexual relationship between hussein and bin laden?
SoWiBi
20-09-2005, 13:14
Frank J. Gaffney, Jr. is president of the Center for Security Policy and a columnist for The Washington Times

yes the wahsington post is a rathe rbig newspaper.
but as this guy is a "columnist", i hope he wrote this as a satirical column? :confused:

who reads it and thinks it worthy to copy/paste onto a forum
plus i hope eutrusca meant this as a way of some kind of let's-do-a-joint-ridicule-of-this-guy joke?
[/pointless naive optimism]
Non Aligned States
20-09-2005, 13:21
so they can ahve fun with the guy who claimed there to be a homosexual relationship between hussein and bin laden?

No, that guy I put in the incinerator.
NERVUN
20-09-2005, 13:21
Belldandy, Urd, and Skuld... I mean, damn, Eutrusca, he manages to include just about everything, even Katrina, into this paranoid article. It reads like the build up articles before we invaded Iraq.

To answer your question, though, I doubt Iran would launch such an attack against the US. For one thing, if memory serves, to create a large enough EMP to actually have an effect (given that the really important stuff is heavily shielded), you pretty much have to detonate a large nuke on top of your target. ANYONE doing that will get an automatic responce, not just from the US weapons, but from everyone else in the nuclear club (MAD at work). Iran isn't THAT stupid.
Eutrusca
20-09-2005, 14:23
tank you, laerod, for already saying the basic thing.

i started out reading the article and highlighting all the stuff that was either riducous, plain wrong or biased, and then i wanted to copy all those and take them apart in my answer post, but they were so amyn i gave up and just second the two follow-up posts.

*shakes head in disblelief* -> and this by you, eutrusca
Hey! It was in the New York Times! I mean, if you can't trust the Times ...! ;)
SoWiBi
20-09-2005, 14:36
mean, if you can't trust the Times ...!
..you know you've arrives someplace good. ;)
Iztatepopotla
20-09-2005, 14:42
Everybody knows that SAP is the Illuminati's tool to conquer the world. In fact, that's what the CW module is for.
Kroisistan
20-09-2005, 14:44
I give it about 1 in 6,875,909,490,394,209.002 that the Islamic Republic of Iran will launch an unprovoked EMP attack on the United States.
Celestial Kingdom
20-09-2005, 14:53
I encountered much difficulty reading through this crap...has the author ever thought that maybe the Iranians have computers? Because then he should turn his down and lock it in a safe, otherwise they could hack it?

Besides, if the US had a software company suited to develop their requiered system they would have resorted to them...again, bum luck, buddy!

So they had to rely on their ally and one of the largest (still) ecomical powers in the world...not being nationalistic here!
Eutrusca
20-09-2005, 14:56
I encountered much difficulty reading through this crap...has the author ever thought that maybe the Iranians have computers? Because then he should turn his down and lock it in a safe, otherwise they could hack it?

Besides, if the US had a software company suited to develop their requiered system they would have resorted to them...again, bum luck, buddy!

So they had to rely on their ally and one of the largest (still) ecomical powers in the world...not being nationalistic here!
Rest assured that there are things in the possession of the US military that no one talks about. ;)
Laerod
20-09-2005, 15:02
Rest assured that there are things in the possession of the US military that no one talks about. ;)So he's all part of some deception? :p
The State of It
20-09-2005, 15:53
Yes this article is frightening.

Frightening that anyone could give it the time of day.

Frightening that someone could see it as worthy and credible to post on the forum.

Frightening, or hilarious.
Swimmingpool
20-09-2005, 15:54
This guy has a serious problem. His article is so full of bias I question the veracity of his conclusions.
Of course he is biased, most opinion columnists are. Now, why don't you address even one or two of the man's points?
Laerod
20-09-2005, 16:03
Of course he is biased, most opinion columnists are. Now, why don't you address even one or two of the man's points?Two reasons:
At the time I posted that, Jolt was undergoing one heck of a lag-fest and I didn't want to have to type up a reply that took work and got lost.
The other is that I was waiting for someone to ask me ;)

Further response to follow in another post.
OceanDrive2
20-09-2005, 16:13
Of course he is biased, most opinion columnists are. Now, why don't you address even one or two of the man's points?Simply Not Worth Our Time.
Shingogogol
20-09-2005, 16:16
Why would an Iranian want to attack us?
You're not...that 'r' word are you?


Oh, I know, the US overthrew their democratically
elected gov't back in 1953.
That's why they took the hostages around 1980.


So if you're talking about those hostages,
don't ignore our gov'ts horrid history.
I know US history is not pretty, but don't forget.



But, seriously, why would Iranians want to attack us?
Laerod
20-09-2005, 16:36
Years ago, the peace movement came up with a catchy rhetorical question: "What if they had a war and nobody came?" Incredibly, the Pentagon may soon see what happens if the U.S. military cannot get to a war without permission from an unlikely quarter: our sometime "ally," Germany. I detect bitterness on the issue that there are no German troops in Iraq.
Recent developments make it increasingly likely America will be required to use force to prevent the terrorist-sponsoring Islamofascist regime in Iran from wielding nuclear weapons against us, our interests and friends. The U.N. visit last week of the Iranian mullahs' handpicked President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad made clear his regime was not only determined to press ahead with its ever-less-secret nuclear weapons program. He also declared Tehran was willing to share its "nuclear technology" with other Islamic states. First off, there are a lot of Americans that would qualify as Christianofascists if Iran is Islamofascists. The proper term is fundamentalist, using a controversial term like Islamofascist indicates that he's trying to cater for a specific ideology.
Handpicked is not an accurate term. All the candidates were "handpicked" but the seemingly favored candidate lost to a populist.
The Iranian nuclear weapons facility is still sealed and monitored with cameras, which the author neglects to mention.
This brazenness has flummoxed the so-called European Union 3 -- Britain, France and Germany -- who have tried to appease Iran into making empty promises to give up its nuclear ambitions. While there is some talk out of Europe about finally acceding to U.S. demands to take the matter to the United Nations, don't hold your breath.
Even if the Europeans could screw up their courage to take such a step, Vladimir Putin and his Chinese friends have dug in their heels. The Iranians have been assured Russia and China will prevent any U.N. unpleasantness -- even economic sanctions, to say nothing of the authorized use of force. This section basically attacks every "peacenik" involved. It fails to mention the guy responsible for the US not being warmongers: President Bush (I actually applaud him for not getting involved, it's something he's managed to do right). God forbid he be grouped with the people that like peace.
Thus emboldened, Iran is intensifying efforts to undo the liberation of Iraq.Blatant bullshit. If Iran wanted to screw things up in Iraq, they'd be getting their Shia brethren clerics to incite the Shia against the US. Considering how peaceful they've been, not without much encouragement from their religious leaders, Iran has obviously not been tampering with the peace process.
It is undermining bids for freedom in Afghanistan and Lebanon. And Tehran is helping ensure the power vacuum created by Israel's surrender of Gaza will result in a new Islamofascist safe-haven for terror.The Shia are not considered Islamic by the terrorists, as the constant attacks by the Sunni insurgents against the Shia have shown. The author is woefully ignorant of reality.

And now we finally come to the rest of the article that talks about the title, after all the partisan rhetoric:
If this were not bad enough, the mullahocracy is taking steps that will enable it directly to threaten to do to the entire United States what Hurricane Katrina did to one region's electrical grid, energy resources, telecommunications systems and other infrastructure: Cripple them.
According to the 2004 report of a blue-ribbon commission tasked with assessing the threat of electromagnetic pulse (EMP) attack on the United States, Iran has demonstrated the ability to conduct such a devastating strike. It has launched a short-range missile from a ship. It has also tested its new, medium-range Shahab-3 ballistic missile in a manner consistent with detonating a nuclear weapon in space -- the scenario the EMP Threat Commission said could cause "catastrophic" damage to the United States.
Now come published reports the Iranians not only are obtaining the capability to go to war with the United States. They persuade themselves they can do so successfully. Has nothing to do with Germany.
But, though such circumstances may compel the United States to act forcibly against Iran, it is not clear if the Army, Navy and Office of the Defense Secretary and perhaps the Air Force will be able to participate in such an operation.
It turns out the first two of our armed services and the Pentagon's civilian bureaucracy rely upon a German software company called SAP to handle their administrative and logistics functions. All other things being equal, the Air Force may decide to follow suit by month's end.
<snip>
At the very least, the Marines could use help from the Air Force if it comes to blows with Iran. That may only be possible, however, if someone decides our airmen -- unlike their Army and Navy counterparts -- should be supported by software that doesn't give Germany a veto.

Frank J. Gaffney, Jr. is president of the Center for Security Policy and a columnist for The Washington Times.This last bit is basically a "Buy American", hate Germany for not regulating its companies and free trade, the US military is too stupid to stop the Iranians if they use the same software rant.
I mean honestly, even if the Iranians knowing about American logistical software would enable them to knock out the Navy and Airforce to land one of their missiles (he could have at least gone into the ranges of Iranian missiles), he fails to note that they'd have to get around Africa, through the Suez Canal and the Mediterranean, or across the Pacific in order to get within range. Now if the US armed forces were so woefully vulnerable, this would still give them enough time to call the South Africans, Europeans, or Australians for help. (Not that the Iranians using the same software could mean that Americans could use that against them.)

This article is basically a preparatory speech to get Americans itching for a war in Iran and not a fact-based analysis, which is rather disappointing for someone that supposedly comes from a "Center for Security Policy".
Kellarly
20-09-2005, 16:38
-snip-


Cool, its nice to see the US uses software that Airbus and EADS use...not going for home grown software this time eh? ;) :D
Ariddia
20-09-2005, 16:49
Recent developments make it increasingly likely America will be required to use force to prevent the terrorist-sponsoring Islamofascist regime in Iran from wielding nuclear weapons against us, our interests and friends.


I think that little bit of nonsense set the tone for the whole article... It was good for a laugh, but it is worrying that such scaremongering, ludicrous propaganda can actually influence people in the States.

Need I even point out why Iran is not going to launch an attack on the United States?
Gargantua City State
20-09-2005, 16:50
This guy has a serious problem. His article is so full of bias I question the veracity of his conclusions.

Agreed. This guy is a friggin' idiot who's trying to stir fear in Americans.
Just because something is not American made does not mean that it's junk. Bush said the same damn thing about Canadian drugs, as though Canada was some 3rd world country.
I think America is full of a bunch of xenophobes with superiority complexes.
Maybe if they tried diplomacy, rather than rushing in with soldiers, they wouldn't have so many problems with people wanting to declare war on them.
The Grimm Reaper
20-09-2005, 17:25
yes the wahsington post is a rathe rbig newspaper.
but as this guy is a "columnist", i hope he wrote this as a satirical column? :confused:

Unfortunately I get the slight feeling that it's not - it's lacking that rather vital component of humour.

Personally the thing I find "Scary as Hell" is that cr@p like this can actually get printed. Worst of all the notion that it could possibly be believed!

And they say the terrorists are using propaganda :rolleyes:

Just because something is not American made does not mean that it's junk.

Just look at all the american made stuff that is ;)

It turns out the first two of our armed services and the Pentagon's civilian bureaucracy rely upon a German software company called SAP to handle their administrative and logistics functions. All other things being equal, the Air Force may decide to follow suit by month's end.

So, basically what he's claiming is that the software comes free with a block that stops it from being used if the german government doesn't agree? :confused:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Swimmingpool
Of course he is biased, most opinion columnists are. Now, why don't you address even one or two of the man's points?

Simply Not Worth Our Time.

Seconded.
Myidealstate
20-09-2005, 21:40
To anybody who is reading this: Please don't post such stuff again, because after having the article read, I had to make appointments with my psychologist, my cardiologist and my gastrologist.
Ifreann
20-09-2005, 21:43
Know what's REALLY scary?The USA's access to most of the world
Super-power
20-09-2005, 21:53
What is wrong with the Pentagon??? Using a logistics company outside the friggin US...they've gone too far. Wake up: if they want to sabotage-proof the military you've got a better bet employing a company within your own borders!!!