NationStates Jolt Archive

Angela Merkel's Christian Democratic Union (and sister party Christian Social Union) have inched their way past Gerrard Schroder's Social Democratic Party and other supporters. For those concerned over warmer U.S. /German relations as well as those concerned over the future of European labor and Turkish admission to the E.U., this is a huge concern. I've followed Merkel's progress since 2002 after hearing of what she was doing on Sean Hannity's radio show on WABC, and its great to see that a woman from East Germany is active with the third economically strongest country in the world showing how civil rights reforms and progress do NOT conflict with conservatism.

As an American, it feels great to know that Europe has a shot at no longer being down-trodden with Socialism and restricted progress due to principles that neglect the human spirit as well as commonsensical morals. France and Spain will no longer be able to spear-head motions in the European community that prevent America from looking like such a bad guy, and we will no longer have to treat Britain as a retreat nor as a beachead with respect to our relations in Europe. Britain can be treated more as a friend of mutual support rather than as a crutch absolutely needed to maintain business and dealings.

So, now that Merkel has shown she still maintains a hold in the Bundestag and Bundesrat (Germany's Federal and Land legislative branches), let's hope that she can actually take the election (like it appeared she would sweep earlier this year) and that she can lead Germany into a fruitful future with the 21st century.

What makes you think that there's already a chancellor that's been elected?

I am very pleased that you taking a genuine interest in our European politics -it's nice to see some internationalism these days.

I have to warn you, however, it's by no means certain that Merkel will be able to form a government. In fact it's almost as likely that Germany will end up with Schroder for a few years yet. Hard to predict at the moment.

On a lighter note, you should also be warned that Europe is full of masochists - Many of us like being "downtrodden with Socialism". It's a class thing!

Not enough of an interest to note that a new chancellor hasn't been elected...

Any party that proclaims itself as christian or nationalist seems a whole lot more dangerous to me than a party that says it's socialist. As a perfect example: The racist Vlaams Belang party, which is, surprise, a christian nationalist party. Or more formally: Christian Democrats. I don't see much difference in Merkel to be honest, though I don't know her, so I won't judge her, merely the party.

Having said that, I like socialism, so I hope Schroeder wins. He could do a good job if people just let him.

Oh, did I mention that socialism doesn't really step on me? I happen to come from a country that's going to offer me a free tertiary education. I won't ever really need to work or worry about university payments, only studying. And I will study, because otherwise I don't get a free tertiary education (or payments for studying).

Any party that proclaims itself as christian or nationalist seems a whole lot more dangerous to me than a party that says it's socialist. As a perfect example: The racist Vlaams Belang party, which is, surprise, a christian nationalist party. Or more formally: Christian Democrats. I don't see much difference in Merkel to be honest, though I don't know her, so I won't judge her, merely the party.

Having said that, I like socialism, so I hope Schroeder wins. He could do a good job if people just let him.If it makes you feel more capable of trusting Merkel, the PBC (Party of Christians faithful to the Bible) is constantly complaining about the "Christian" in Christian democrat, since they feel the CDU is a bunch of heathens. :D

socialism generally doesn't step on those who don't work...

[Fallanour]

Glad to see you're batting for (roughly) the right side!

Names really once meant something but now are a little dischordant - The SDP does contain some Socialists an many of the CDU/CSU are certainly Christians but you might as well compare them with the two US parties.

In Germany extreme left & rightists have more election choices, but if you're really a socialist you're looking at the "Red" Left party or the (still, I believe, banned - but correct me if I'm wrong) Kommunist Partei Deutschlands.

I watched the election in Germany with great interest . As an American my biggest concern about Merkl is " but is she hot ? " . :D The first women chancellor in German history and all I can think about is whips and leather and Marlene Dietrich . :)

On a lighter note, you should also be warned that Europe is full of masochists - Many of us like being "downtrodden with Socialism". It's a class thing!
*laughs and gives nordic freedom a high-five*

they feel the CDU is a bunch of heathens
oh, they are. they don't believe in me.

and that she can lead Germany into a fruitful future with the 21st century.
which election campaign poster did you copy that one off? i shudder to think of merkel getting anything she considers fruitful to get done

I watched the election in Germany with great interest . As an American my biggest concern about Merkl is " but is she hot ? " . :D The first women chancellor in German history and all I can think about is whips and leather and Marlene Dietrich . :)

amen

also... her ideas on bush

hehe

If it makes you feel more capable of trusting Merkel, the PBC (Party of Christians faithful to the Bible) is constantly complaining about the "Christian" in Christian democrat, since they feel the CDU is a bunch of heathens. :D

Well, it makes me feel slightly better.

And I don't think she is nationalist... I hope so at least. I'll definitely oppose her to the ends of the world if she comes across as being nationalist. Not that I'll have any power to do so, but I do so despise nationalists.


And to Frangland: Study is work. After study, comes work too. Will it step on me there? I think not, considering Denmark is one of the richer countries of the European union (and thereby also one of the richest countries of the world). Denmark, last time I checked, was considered somewhat socialist. I'd say an average of about 50% taxes, free healthcare, education among other things would classify as socialist.

I watched the election in Germany with great interest . As an American my biggest concern about Merkl is " but is she hot ? " . :D The first women chancellor in German history and all I can think about is whips and leather and Marlene Dietrich . :)
Decide for yourself (http://194.12.210.217/asset/Image/Migration/2005/1merkel,1.jpg) ;)

[QUOTE=Fallanour]Any party that proclaims itself as christian or nationalist seems a whole lot more dangerous to me than a party that says it's socialist. As a perfect example: The racist Vlaams Belang party, which is, surprise, a christian nationalist party. Or more formally: Christian Democrats. I don't see much difference in Merkel to be honest[QUOTE]
Or even more formally: The National Socialists... ;-)

Maybe you don't know much of German politics. That's no problem, just let me tell you: The Christian Democrats and esp. Mrs. Merkel are nothing conservative or national. The Christian Social Union is more at the right - but esp. in their area the CDU has lost more than average because with this candidate they couldn't motivate their supporters.

having seen that picture of Merkel, I retract the "bush" statement. I DON'T want to know.

I watched the election in Germany with great interest . As an American my biggest concern about Merkl is " but is she hot ? " . :D The first women chancellor in German history and all I can think about is whips and leather and Marlene Dietrich . :)Here's a little picture to give you an idea (but don't say I didn't warn you, because I am warning you):
Dare you look? (http://www.eulenspiegel-zeitschrift.de/Eulenspiegel/Hintergrundbilder/Schneewittchen_1024/schneewittchen_1024.html)

[QUOTE=Fallanour]Any party that proclaims itself as christian or nationalist seems a whole lot more dangerous to me than a party that says it's socialist. As a perfect example: The racist Vlaams Belang party, which is, surprise, a christian nationalist party. Or more formally: Christian Democrats. I don't see much difference in Merkel to be honest[QUOTE]
Or even more formally: The National Socialists... ;-)

Maybe you don't know much of German politics. That's no problem, just let me tell you: The Christian Democrats and esp. Mrs. Merkel are nothing conservative or national. The Christian Social Union is more at the right - but esp. in their area the CDU has lost more than average because with this candidate they couldn't motivate their supporters.

okay, then, for purposes of comparison...

which party is more liberal: the Christian Democrats or Schroder's party?

having seen that picture of Merkel, I retract the "bush" statement. I DON'T want to know.

It is very tempting but probably too sexist and frivolous to ask you to suggest any attractive female politicians that you've come across!?

None spring to mind, but then again I do live in the UK...

Or even more formally: The National Socialists... ;-)

Maybe you don't know much of German politics. That's no problem, just let me tell you: The Christian Democrats and esp. Mrs. Merkel are nothing conservative or national. The Christian Social Union is more at the right - but esp. in their area the CDU has lost more than average because with this candidate they couldn't motivate their supporters.

Well, to be honest, no, I don't know too much about German politics. I do however, have quite a few german friends (ten I think? heh, European School is nice, lots of nationalities). They all think that Merkel is bad news (apparently, she comes across to them as an uninteresting house wife that might not exactly know what she's talking about, emphasize apparently). Then again, it is 50/50 (well, proportionally). And besides, she's not socialist, that's really the mean point, because Schroeder is. It's not so much what she is not or what she is. It's what Schroeder is.

It is very tempting but probably too sexist and frivolous to ask you to suggest any attractive female politicians that you've come across!?

None spring to mind, but then again I do live in the UK...They're all in the Green party (though not at the top). :D

its great to see that a woman from East Germany is active with the third economically strongest country in the world showing how civil rights reforms and progress do NOT conflict with conservatism.

Only two sentences:

1.) The CDU is no conservative party. It has marginalised its conservatives almost until extinct. Only the voters are too stupid to notice... ;-)

2.) The woman from Eastern Germany has led her party directly into a big crisis. Her only chance is to convince the Social Democrats to join a government under her rule; if she doesn't become Chancellor, she will not continue as head of her party, I'm sure.

It is very tempting but probably too sexist and frivolous to ask you to suggest any attractive female politicians that you've come across!?

None spring to mind, but then again I do live in the UK...

hehe, yeah, I can't think of any. I was hoping that frau merkel would have been hot though. hehe (not that she's bad-looking per se...)

And besides, she's not socialist, that's really the mean point, because Schroeder is. It's not so much what she is not or what she is. It's what Schroeder is.


Yes, but Schröder has lost the elections because many traditional supporters of his party are disappointed of his course - he's no socialist. He defines himself and his position as the "new centre". Maybe your party more likely would have been the Left party/Party of Democratic Socialism.

They're all in the Green party (though not at the top). :D

Ah, OK, you wrote "not at the top"; I just was thinking of Claudia Roth and I almost had to vomit :grin:

They're all in the Green party (though not at the top).
names? :eek:

oh and this cdu bitch, whats her name, von leyen, she's quite good-looking but unfortunately not good-thinking..so to speak..:)

an doh , i dared to look, and i REGRET!! *misses the puking smiley* :eek:

Ah, OK, you wrote "not at the top"; I just was thinking of Claudia Roth and I almost had to vomit :grin:Igittigittigitt! No, I'd probably be prowling the Young Greens if I wasn't currently disinterested.

not that she's bad-looking per se..
:eek: i have, so far, seen ONE campaign poster where she wasn't bad-looking. and i bet my ass that one's been manipulated. so wtf?!

p.s. and btw, i'm not into judging politicians by their looks..

an doh , i dared to look, and i REGRET!! *misses the puking smiley* :eek:Hehehe. I bet you haven't seen the "intern in the oval office" picture then... :D

Igittigittigitt! No, I'd probably be prowling the Young Greens if I wasn't currently disinterested.
:p

:eek: i have, so far, seen ONE campaign poster where she wasn't bad-looking. and i bet my ass that one's been manipulated. so wtf?!

p.s. and btw, i'm not into judging politicians by their looks..
After having seen some election posters I'm not sure if politicians don't want to be judged by their looks.

i am torn between telling you off for meely mentioning it as i'm getting pictures in my head i NEVER EVER wanted to see...but then tehre's my curiosity.. let's say..

show me but please don't show me?

Could anyone explain to me Merkel's positions on:
- European Union: I know she is against turkey entering the EU, but does she support a further deepening of the ties of the Union, in a way independent of the US?
- US foreign policy: Is she a staunch supporter of bush policies, mild supporter, or neutral?


Thankies :)


Edit: oh man Laerod, you are sooo going to hell for that picture lol.

After having seen some election posters I'm not sure if politicians don't want to be judged by their looks.Have you seen the CDU commercial? Her smile at the end just creeps me out (when she says "Deutschland wird es schaffen!"). :eek: :eek: :eek:

I'm glad the FDP was more successful in this round of elections, although if there's a "Grand Coalition" government between the SPD and CDU their gains won't matter anyway. I personally would like to see the "Jamaican Coalition" between the CDU, FDP, and greens, as that is likely the most pro-freemarket government possible, and the CDU is much more likely to make concessions to the Greens on the environment and social issues, than economic issues if they want to keep the FDP in.

I think the SPD could easily take the greens and the Left party and form a farther left coalition, but for some reason or other the SPD refuses to negotiate with the Left party. I fear a Grand Coalition under a third chancellor candidate will form, and that will probably be generally useless.

Perhaps someone would be kind enough to answer a stupid question:
What sorts of positions to the CDU take on civil rights issues? Gay marriage, gun control, drugs, etc.
How about their poitions on biotech such as genetically-modified foods?

i know how people say that it helped her caus eby miles to discover that tehre is such thing as smiles..but honestly, it creeps me out basically everytime she smiles. it alway slooks like..like she's having this plan to shoot everyone in front of her in her head secretly while smiling. or something like that. it's..creepy, really.

i'd say that as far as the EU's concerned, merkel's more in favor of natin sovereignity than for a sttrong EU..compare her comments on how some EU guidelines interfere with national law-making too much..but she's still pro-EU, of course.

as for the US: she's all for stronger ties with the US than schröder promotes it, but i wouldn't say that she's a strong supporter of everything bush says or does..it's more an "germany-US ally-ship" rather than a "merkel-bush ally-ship" as far as i'd say.

Merkel over the years (http://www.dhm.de/ausstellungen/spuren_der_macht/merkel_index.htm)

Have you seen the CDU commercial? Her smile at the end just creeps me out (when she says "Deutschland wird es schaffen!"). :eek: :eek: :eek:
No, unfortunatly I haven't. I left the room of focused my attention to other things when the big parties commercials run. They reminded me to much of commercials for insurances or the like in the past elections. The commercials of the small parties were quite funny. Particularly that one where that stern looking lady at the end stated something like "Vertrauen Sie mir. Ich weiß was ich tue!"
Reminded me at Sledge Hammer.

I think the SPD could easily take the greens and the Left party and form a farther left coalition, but for some reason or other the SPD refuses to negotiate with the Left party. I fear a Grand Coalition under a third chancellor candidate will form, and that will probably be generally useless.Hehe, the reason no one wants to do anything with the Left party is because they haven't got any real propositions on how to pay for their wonderful concessions to the social state. That and one of the heads of the Left party is a "blood-traitor" to the SPD, Oskar Lafontaine.

i'd say that as far as the EU's concerned, merkel's more in favor of natin sovereignity than for a sttrong EU..compare her comments on how some EU guidelines interfere with national law-making too much..but she's still pro-EU, of course.

as for the US: she's all for stronger ties with the US than schröder promotes it, but i wouldn't say that she's a strong supporter of everything bush says or does..it's more an "germany-US ally-ship" rather than a "merkel-bush ally-ship" as far as i'd say.

correct

Could anyone explain to me Merkel's positions on:
- European Union: I know she is against turkey entering the EU, but does she support a further deepening of the ties of the Union, in a way independent of the US?
- US foreign policy: Is she a staunch supporter of bush policies, mild supporter, or neutral?


Thankies :)


Edit: oh man Laerod, you are sooo going to hell for that picture lol.

I'm not a German citizen, but if I were (hehe), I'd want to get her thoughts on terrorism and what needs to be done about it in Europe, the Middle East, and around the world.

Merkel over the years (http://www.dhm.de/ausstellungen/spuren_der_macht/merkel_index.htm)

check out those shoulder-pads! yikes!

Perhaps someone would be kind enough to answer a stupid question:
What sorts of positions to the CDU take on civil rights issues? Gay marriage, gun control, drugs, etc.
How about their poitions on biotech such as genetically-modified foods?
Gay marriage? They aren't pushing it. They'll probably settle for the status quo.
Gun control? No one really cares about owning a gun in Germany. It's only been an issue after the Erfurt massacre and gun laws were made harsher with a broad majority from all parties.
Drugs? Not pushing it. Only the Greens really have a non status quo platform. They want to allow hemp.
Biotech and GM food? A bit more in favor of them, much like the SPD, though not for cloning or stem cell research. In fact, the Greens agree on the cloning and stem cell research laws there...

Merkel over the years (http://www.dhm.de/ausstellungen/spuren_der_macht/merkel_index.htm)Well, you can see how her hair slowly evolved...
No, unfortunatly I haven't. I left the room of focused my attention to other things when the big parties commercials run. They reminded me to much of commercials for insurances or the like in the past elections. The commercials of the small parties were quite funny. Particularly that one where that stern looking lady at the end stated something like "Vertrauen Sie mir. Ich weiß was ich tue!"
Reminded me at Sledge Hammer.Sledge Hammer was the man! :D
Did you see the one where that "vitamin pills cure cancer and aids" doctor ruined his white shoes while taking a stride in the Wattenmeer? That satisfyied me a bit... :D

Nice to know that the German election is slightly FUBAR (from what I understand)
Makes me feel better that we still have voters that can't figure out Butterfly ballots. :p

I'm hoping for a Merkel win, if just for the stronger ties for the US. Having some more right-wing economic stance wouldn't hurt, either, though it appears she probably wouldn't be able to get much done?
And when would the next election be?

Could anyone explain to me Merkel's positions on:
- European Union: I know she is against turkey entering the EU, but does she support a further deepening of the ties of the Union, in a way independent of the US?
- US foreign policy: Is she a staunch supporter of bush policies, mild supporter, or neutral?EU politics currently revolve around the staunch NO! to Turkey's membership bid (a "priviliged partnership" but no membership). It's hard to tell what she'll do, but it was a CDU goal to unite Europe as one nation when the ECSC started (Adenauer was a driving factor behind this).
US foreign policy hardly got scratched. Mainly, it's been the CDU covering its ass for comments they made about criticizing Schröder's NO! to the Iraq war and a question about whether Bush failed with Katrina in the single debate they had in German television. Both candidates made sure to worm their way around answering that question.

Edit: oh man Laerod, you are sooo going to hell for that picture lol.Don't make me pull out the intern (http://www.eulenspiegel-zeitschrift.de/Eulenspiegel/Hintergrundbilder/Prakt1024/prakt1024.html)! :D

Well, you can see how her hair slowly evolved...
Sledge Hammer was the man! :D
Did you see the one where that "vitamin pills cure cancer and aids" doctor ruined his white shoes while taking a stride in the Wattenmeer? That satisfyied me a bit... :D
I think I just saw the ending of it. In full length I saw only the APPD, the "Die Partei" and the PBC commercial. I think of them the PBC commercial was most funny because they meant it serious.
Actually I have the impression that the commercials of the small parties are less and less frequent. But maybe it is mostly due to me watching less and less TV.

i really don't know if i oughta hit laerod ver the head hard for tempting me like this, or myself for having let myself be tempted, or both. :headbang:

i'm in desperate need for a bucket, AND for a puking smiley. this is getting urgent. :eek:

Nice to know that the German election is slightly FUBAR (from what I understand)
Makes me feel better that we still have voters that can't figure out Butterfly ballots. :p

I'm hoping for a Merkel win, if just for the stronger ties for the US. Having some more right-wing economic stance wouldn't hurt, either, though it appears she probably wouldn't be able to get much done?
And when would the next election be?The Parliament (Bundestag) that got elected needs to assemble at the latest on October 18th to elect a chancellor. If there's no stable coalition (more than half the seats) then the Federal President, Horst Köhler, appoints a candidate to be elected. Said candidate needs a simple majority to be elected. If that doesn't work, there needs to be a second election within 14 days, in which multiple candidates are allowed. If none of them achieve a simple majority, a third election needs to occur immediatly afterwards. The candidate with the most votes is then either appointed by the President or the Bundestag gets dissolved and new elections need to be organized, unless of course that candidate receives a simple majority.
As for FUBAR, the Weimar Republic holds a record of 17 parties in Parliament at the same time... it could be a lot worse ;)

Nice to know that the German election is slightly FUBAR (from what I understand)
Makes me feel better that we still have voters that can't figure out Butterfly ballots. :p

I'm hoping for a Merkel win, if just for the stronger ties for the US. Having some more right-wing economic stance wouldn't hurt, either, though it appears she probably wouldn't be able to get much done?
And when would the next election be?

sounds like (I've since read a bit on Merkel and Schroder) Germany's unemployment would drop under Merkel, and the economy (broadly speaking) would improve.

of course, when you make it more advantageous for people to work (or, less advantageous for them not to..), the above two things take place.

It sounds like instead of electing chancellors that Germans were electing political parties... how does that work? Was it not Merkel vs. Schroder in an election for the chancellor's spot?

Merkel (or her party, or both) beat Schroder and his party in the popular vote, something like 35.2% (Merkel) to 34.5% (Schroder).

So... is there no possibility to win on plurality? Why is Merkel not the clear winner?

sounds like (I've since read a bit on Merkel and Schroder) Germany's unemployment would drop under Merkel, and the economy (broadly speaking) would improve.

of course, when you make it more advantageous for people to work (or, less advantageous for them no to..), the above two things take place.

It sounds like instead of electing chancellors that Germans were electing political parties... how does that work? Was it not Merkel vs. Schroder in an election for the chancellor's spot?
You elect parties. The party that can get a majority of the votes puts forward it's leader as the chancellor.

You elect parties. The party that can get a majority of the votes puts forward it's leader as the chancellor.

cool, thanks.

so both sides need to get support to reach the 50% +1 majority...?

cool, thanks.

so both sides need to get support to reach the 50% +1 majority...?
Yep. That's why neither side really has a victory at the moment.

Yep. That's why neither side really has a victory at the moment.

got it.

... so i suppose now we'll see some strange inter-party alliances taking shape.

sounds like (I've since read a bit on Merkel and Schroder) Germany's unemployment would drop under Merkel, and the economy (broadly speaking) would improve.

of course, when you make it more advantageous for people to work (or, less advantageous for them not to..), the above two things take place.

It sounds like instead of electing chancellors that Germans were electing political parties... how does that work? Was it not Merkel vs. Schroder in an election for the chancellor's spot?

Merkel (or her party, or both) beat Schroder and his party in the popular vote, something like 35.2% (Merkel) to 34.5% (Schroder).

So... is there no possibility to win on plurality? Why is Merkel not the clear winner?
We don't vote the wo/man, we vote the party. Then the parties procede to vote the chancellor. As it stands Merkel lost a clear majority that would have had the CDU ruling alone at the beginning of the campaign. That is a clear defeat, which explains why the CDU followers and politicians all had extremely sad faces.
Currently, there is no majority for any two parties, making getting a strong enough majority to elect a chancellor quite tricky.
Merkel most certainly is the clear loser of this election.

sir yes sir. strange is the word.

(consider that people are actually discussing a economic-liberal/christian-conservative/green party coalition :eek: )

I am so against the so-called "Jamaica-Coalition". I really hope that the Greens won't sink as low as to work together with the FDP and CDU/CSU.

I'm still surprised the damn liberals won't even consider a solution where they might get a foot in the door of government (namely the "traffic-lights-coalition" between SPD, FDP and Greens).

Well, anyway - I shudder to even imagine Merkel on state visits; that idiotic smirk she has just freaks me out. Not that her frown is any better, but at least that's not as fake.

The next weeks will prove to be interesting, to say the least.

Here's a little picture to give you an idea (but don't say I didn't warn you, because I am warning you):
Dare you look? (http://www.eulenspiegel-zeitschrift.de/Eulenspiegel/Hintergrundbilder/Schneewittchen_1024/schneewittchen_1024.html)

Wow ...already ! It seems great minds think alike :D

Still a women Chancellor in Germany...wow . Germany has come a long way .

What will the coalition look like ? Who will she ally with to get a majority ?

News flash to whoever started this thread...

Social Democracy can be very effective and can work.
Liberal Democracy works period.

The Human development report and index is all the proof I need.

What's happened in Germany is a bad example.

I am so against the so-called "Jamaica-Coalition". I really hope that the Greens won't sink as low as to work together with the FDP and CDU/CSU.

I'm still surprised the damn liberals won't even consider a solution where they might get a food in the door of government (namely the "traffic-lights-coalition" between SPD, FDP and Greens).

Well, anyway - I shudder to even imagine Merkel on state visits; that idiotic smirk she has just freaks me out. Not that her frown is any better, but at least that's not as fake.

The next weeks will prove to be interesting, to say the least.

Right on all points. I find it very hard to believe that the Greens were hoping for time in opposition rather than Red-Green and would then go for the CDU/FDP lot. It would have to be a very good deal indeed.

Angela would not be too welcome in the UK (by Labour Party members, obviously. I bet Blair fancies her rotten).

Lastly - Surely the major winners out of this whole thing are the FDP who have taken a huge leap forward (although somewhat destructively at the expense of the CDU). The Left did fairly well I think too. Surely the FDP can get some clout in with the Red-Greens due to their vote & Schroder's desparation. It was only very recently that they stopped being the "Kingmakers" for both sides.

Bah. I'm ok with the results, but it would have been better if the National Democratic Party of Germany and Die Republikaner won a few more seats. :p

*just knew it was a bad idea to take serap off my ignore list again*

Personally I think that the best thing that can be done right now is a simple minority coalition with the CDU/FDP. They govern as long as they can, and within a a few weaks or a month perhaps, elections should be called for again.

Personally I think that the best thing that can be done right now is a simple minority coalition with the CDU/FDP. They govern as long as they can, and within a a few weaks or a month perhaps, elections should be called for again.


To be honest, that's the only game in town if the SDP/Greens won't play ball with Merkel.

The only problem is how far the Geman population & party membership will put pressure on the egos (Schroder & Merkel) to avoid minority & repeat elections, but I think they would accept some level of responsiblity for that.

It would be interesting to see how the coming weeks affect a 2nd result - will CDU be popular for having a try or will they look weak and power-crazed? How will Merkel get on in the leadership election tomorrow? Will she be strengthened or undermined?

Too many questions...Head spinning...aarrrggh
:rolleyes:

I heard a model proposed on TV, in which the chancellorship switches between Merkel and Schröder after two years. A most strange idea.

Personally I think that the best thing that can be done right now is a simple minority coalition with the CDU/FDP. They govern as long as they can, and within a a few weaks or a month perhaps, elections should be called for again.German law requires a chancellor, and the person with the most votes needs approval of the President if they don't have a majority.

Bah. I'm ok with the results, but it would have been better if the National Democratic Party of Germany and Die Republikaner won a few more seats. :pNormal politicians spout enough hot air. There's no need for politicians that spout hot air on irrelevant issues in parliament (and that's ALL the Reps or NPD do).

German law requires a chancellor, and the person with the most votes needs approval of the President if they don't have a majority.


As I understand it - The President officially nominates the candidate for Chancellor and this should (unsure if it is required by the basic law) be the leader of the largest party in a majority alliance in the Bundestag.

If no majority is forthcoming then he will probably nominate the leader of the largest party - (Is this the CDU or SPD - are the CSU now just constitutionally assumed to be the same entity?). They then require a basic majority in the parliament.

If they are rejected then the Bundesrat can start putting their own candidates together for an open election. At this stage I don't think that the President has any influence at all.

It is hard to see things getting quite that far, unless people really start to get on each others' nerves!

This (http://www.zeit.de/online/2005/38/wahl_naumann) is rather depressing...

As I understand it - The President officially nominates the candidate for Chancellor and this should (unsure if it is required by the basic law) be the leader of the largest party in a majority alliance in the Bundestag.

If no majority is forthcoming then he will probably nominate the leader of the largest party - (Is this the CDU or SPD - are the CSU now just constitutionally assumed to be the same entity?). They then require a basic majority in the parliament.

If they are rejected then the Bundesrat can start putting their own candidates together for an open election. At this stage I don't think that the President has any influence at all.

It is hard to see things getting quite that far, unless people really start to get on each others' nerves!I posted what happens on one of the threads, but I'm no longer sure which one. Basically, the President nominates a candidate if there is no stable coalition during the election of the chancellor. In the second time round, he doesn't. If there's no 50% majority for any candidate in the first two, the third run goes by a majority of the votes. The President appoints the Chancellor in any case, although he can choose to dissolve Parliament instead if the candidate has less than 50% of the votes in the 3rd run.

Bah. I'm ok with the results, but it would have been better if the National Democratic Party of Germany and Die Republikaner won a few more seats. :p

I'd say I hope you're not serious, but your political compass suggests otherwise. :p

No, honestly, the German "Republicans" are even worse than the American ones. While they and the NPD have some ideas about improving economy, they're mostly WW2 apologists, if not borderline Neo-Nazis. No use for them here.

As I understand it - The President officially nominates the candidate for Chancellor and this should (unsure if it is required by the basic law) be the leader of the largest party in a majority alliance in the Bundestag.

Normally the leader of the biggest party is put to the vote for chancellorship in the Bundestag by the president.
This is not a must, in theory the president could also nominate one of the other Kanzlerkandidaten or even someone completely different. The constitution says nothing on who that person is. There's a precedence for nominating someone else, as well: Kurt Georg Kiesinger, Germany's 3rd chancellor. He was not the official Kanzlerkandidat and not member of the newly elected parliament, but chancellor of Baden-Württemberg).

If he/she gets the majority vote she/he will become chancellor, the president officially swears that person in. For this election the absolute majority of votes is needed.

If that fails, there's a 2 week period where there can be as many votes as possible. Also, new candidates can be brought forward by at least a quater of the MPs. The absolute majority is absolutely necessary. This period has, so far, never happened in Germany.

After this only a simple majority is needed, so if the current number of seats stays and the loony left were to abstain then Merkel could become chancellor by the votes of CDU/CSU & FDP. There is only one election (obviously)

After this only a simple majority is needed, so if the current number of seats stays and the loony left were to abstain then Merkel could become chancellor by the votes of CDU/CSU & FDP. There is only one election (obviously)Actually, President Köhler doesn't need to swear her in in that case. He can decide to dissolve the Bundestag instead.

After this only a simple majority is needed, so if the current number of seats stays and the loony left were to abstain then Merkel could become chancellor by the votes of CDU/CSU & FDP. There is only one election (obviously)Actually, President Köhler doesn't need to swear her in in that case. He can decide to dissolve the Bundestag instead.

BTW, does noone else find it strange that 51.1% of Germans voted left of center (loony lefties, SPD, Green Party) yet Merkel still thinks she won the election?

BTW, does noone else find it strange that 51.1% of Germans voted left of center (loony lefties, SPD, Green Party) yet Merkel still thinks she won the election?Just the chancellorship. If she thought she won the election, she wouldn't have been so sad after the results were out.

Anybody besides me consider the title erroneous? We had a Bundestagswahl, not a Kanzlerwahl...

Actually, President Köhler doesn't need to swear her in in that case. He can decide to dissolve the Bundestag instead.
You're right, the point being that it is a "can" clause. He might also decide to just see how a minority government would work in Germany.

And what a bundle of joy that would be :D

oh, i consider a lot of things about merkels thoughts strange.

the fact that thy lost over 2% and the spd, which was supoosed to really get denounced by the voters, lost only a bit more than the double of that.

the fact that she doesn't have a majority, even in a coaltion with the fdp.

the fact that despite that, she keep talking aou a clear "regierungsauftrag" -> mission to govern given to her by the voter.

plus the fcat you mentioned ;)

Anybody besides me consider the title erroneous? We had a Bundestagswahl, not a Kanzlerwahl...
From the outside (of Germany that is) it might not look that way. And even here it had the feeling of a duell between Schröder and Merkel. I know a few people who voted for Merkel because:
- she's a woman
- they can't stand Schröder's arrogant face anymore
- she's a woman :-)

Asked about what the parties these candidates stand for represent, they answered: "Don't know, don't care, Merkel's a woman and Schröder is guilty of running the German economy to the ground."

Just the chancellorship. If she thought she won the election, she wouldn't have been so sad after the results were out.

Anybody besides me consider the title erroneous? We had a Bundestagswahl, not a Kanzlerwahl...
Indeed, but the most non-germans, like the OP, don't know this and the phrase "Chancellor Election" is somewhat catchier. Plus, many germans also think that way. So: "Wir sollten da mal fünf grade sein lassen." ;)

From the outside (of Germany that is) it might not look that way. And even here it had the feeling of a duell between Schröder and Merkel. I know a few people who voted for Merkel because:
- she's a woman
- they can't stand Schröder's arrogant face anymore
- she's a woman :-)

Asked about what the parties these candidates stand for represent, they answered: "Don't know, don't care, Merkel's a woman and Schröder is guilty of running the German economy to the ground."If they cared about women they would have voted the Femenists and not a party whose base considers women more suitable for kitchen work (no joke!).

They're all in the Green party (though not at the top). :D

Don't forget the Linkspartei (a.k.a. PDS). Take for example Julia Bonk (http://www.juliabonk.de/media/images/content/julia_start.jpg), definitely hot.

ye, not too bad that one..:)

p.s. yes, this system kinda broke down yesterday already..seems to start all over again now..i hATE this..

edit// and how about sara wa..someting or the other (what's her name again) from the pds(communist platform)? she's got her great-looking moments as well..

You mean Sahra Wagenknecht? Yeah she looks good, but she would look better if she didn't have this awful hair dress.

ye, not too bad that one..:)

p.s. yes, this system kinda broke down yesterday already..seems to start all over again now..i hATE this..

edit// and how about sara wa..someting or the other (what's her name again) from the pds(communist platform)? she's got her great-looking moments as well..
I thought that too.

It is very tempting but probably too sexist and frivolous to ask you to suggest any attractive female politicians that you've come across!?
Looking good for a politician, eh? (http://www.stern.de/politik/deutschland/544501.html?p=2&nv=ct_cb&eid=540855)
She is 27 and No. 2 in the german left party.

Woah, she's a hottie. :D

Julia Bonk
Now there's a hot name ;)

Don't forget the Linkspartei (a.k.a. PDS). Take for example Julia Bonk (http://www.juliabonk.de/media/images/content/julia_start.jpg), definitely hot.

For some reason that RED hair cracked me up...

Now there's a hot name ;)

i wonder if she's the wife of Radek Bonk

hehe

It should be noted that when it was stated how a majority of voters stood by the left in this election that a susbstantial portion of them voted for the Left Party which is rejected by both sides since it is made up of both ex-communists and radical social democrats. The SDP refuses to cooperate with them and only controls about 45% of the vote with their suppportive Green Party. The same percentage holds true for the right as the CDU/CSU is supported by the Free Democrats and collectively holds about a percentage point more than the first alliance (the SDP itself holds about .8% less of the German Parliament than the CDU/CSU.

Edmund Stoiber was a secondary candidate that ran from Bavaria that lost votes after declaring how E.German voters were... stupid compared to those of the rest of the country. Ms. Merkel, who is from Hamburg (a small northern state) received much of the vote deterred from Stoiber (Bavaria has been historically considered the most rebellious state in the Republic). Because of Merkel's poor public performances, the transfer of votes from Stoiber could have saved her spot as a candidate for the Chancellorship.

Assuming a grand coalition is in order the great obstacle to be overcome will be that of the state governors who traditionally use their veto power to interfere with Federal procedure. Lt. General Lucius D. Clay was the U.S. Viceroy to the FGR after WW2 and decided to use the historical rivalries between German states in order to prevent a future Hitler from rising to power and starting WW3. So whether Schoeder or Merkel gets elected, both of them will have to deal with the gubernatorial leaders as a final approval for getting into office.

Ms. Merkel, who is from Hamburg
allow me to correct you. she's born in hamburg, yes, but lived there only for the first few weeks of her life and then her family moved to templin in brandenburg. now i'm only emphazising this because it did matter in the election campaign, templin being in the former east germany part and many prejudices against eatsern germans still around.


seondly,
the Left Party which is rejected by both sides since it is made up of both ex-communists and radical social democrats.

well, i want to draw attention to the fact that there are state parliaments where this coalition works. i don't think that the spd would generally oppose the pds/left party but needs to do so at this moment as one of the big momentum in the elction camapign was he differnce between left party and spd. but you shouldn't say something along the lines of nbody ever wanting to coalition with them..the got 8+ percent, you better not marginalize them.

i wouldn't say that she's a strong supporter of everything bush says or does..it's more an "germany-US ally-ship" rather than a "merkel-bush ally-ship" as far as i'd say.

The word you want is alliance.