NationStates Jolt Archive

-this is not supposed to offend, only chalenge-

CONSTANTINE
Constantine, was the son of a veteran roman officer aledgidly and constantine himself was expierienced on many battlefeilds before he became emperor, and so would have worshiped apollo the head god, sun god (at the time) and war god...many roman icons ,gods myth, and folklore is a mix of greek and egyptian dissolved into roman culture and so apollo would have been a greek or egyptian god at a earlier time (either one its besides the point) anyway when constantine became emperor and went round about his buisness of invading conquering and basic emperoring until he got to rome and found that it was split between good old pagans and early christians,(christians which had previosly been subjected to lions and whatnot)
anyhow constantine decides the only way to stop them from killing each other(yes christians do kill people) and segregating themselfs was to make the christian religion official...tho get this...he decided to keep certain parts of the bible and got rid of others and edited bits to his own political, and personal ends, the day of worship became sunday like appolos day of worship, also whear the name sunday could have come from (sun god sunday) and varios dates changed to coincide with pagan ones. he kept mathew mark luke and jhon etc etc, and burnt others in ceromonies along with heretics (word derives from that very incedent Heretic-history denyer)
the heretics refused the new testiment that constantine came up with and hid many other perfectly equaly legitamate christian litriture,m such as the dead sea scrolls and a few others i cant pronounce.
the roman catholic church still works like the roman empire and little bits still crop up like halos for example being mutch the same as roman and egyptian icons (look familiar)
also their are other theories which arnt proven facts like the above, the idia that jesus would have been a nobleman of the house of soloman and mary magdaline wasnt a hoar but of the house of david (the romans wouldnt have like them getting married) second a jewish man at that time not being married was scandalouse, he DEFINATLY would have to have ben married to be socialy exeptable. there are many other flaws butmy point is to those that take the bible literaly cos people do. and to those who are more open minded and spiritual wheres the message in the bible and the church? and if you learn
the message from anywhear else why is it done through christianity when you could explore spirituality for yourself (if you do be impartial to your spiritualty or you will end up as a cult member/leader) but why dont people listen to themselfs? The clergy are on a huge power trip.
and bush worships the war god apollo :D

cheers for taking your time to read it and try to ignore my spelling.
if you dont think its 100% accurate comment on it fine but its correct as a whole. and i havnt read it through so iron it out for me please if you can.

wasnt something like that in the davinci code?i dont trust the historical accuracy of that book one bit.

Yes, it is common knowledge that there are are number of Roman and Greek elements (mostly philosophical, some symbolic) synthesized into Christianity.
-And I double-checked this with my history teacher who is indeed a devout Catholic

wasnt something like that in the davinci code?i dont trust the historical accuracy of that book one bit.
um someone was talking about the davinci code and we cheked it out an discused it, the historical accuracy is fine but the plot to the story is flawed horribly, terible story but i think he wanted to give people facts inbetween,which are good but adopted to his use

wasnt something like that in the davinci code?i dont trust the historical accuracy of that book one bit.
Good, because it's supposed to be a work of fiction and not a historically accurate research paper.

Yes, it is common knowledge that there are are number of Roman and Greek elements (mostly philosophical, some symbolic) synthesized into Christianity.
-And I double-checked this with my history teacher who is indeed a devout Catholic

True, such as the evidence that the Minoan belief in the Goddess of the earth provided the basis for the Virgin Mary.

*snip*
and bush worships the war god apollo :D
Apollo is not a war god. ;) He was rather a pansy, more into art, music and looking handsome.

-this is not supposed to offend, only chalenge-

CONSTANTINE
Constantine, was the son of a veteran roman officer aledgidly and constantine himself was expierienced on many battlefeilds before he became emperor, and so would have worshiped apollo the head god, sun god (at the time) and war god...many roman icons ,gods myth, and folklore is a mix of greek and egyptian dissolved into roman culture and so apollo would have been a greek or egyptian god at a earlier time (either one its besides the point) anyway when constantine became emperor and went round about his buisness of invading conquering and basic emperoring until he got to rome and found that it was split between good old pagans and early christians,(christians which had previosly been subjected to lions and whatnot)
anyhow constantine decides the only way to stop them from killing each other(yes christians do kill people) and segregating themselfs was to make the christian religion official...tho get this...he decided to keep certain parts of the bible and got rid of others and edited bits to his own political, and personal ends, the day of worship became sunday like appolos day of worship, also whear the name sunday could have come from (sun god sunday) and varios dates changed to coincide with pagan ones. he kept mathew mark luke and jhon etc etc, and burnt others in ceromonies along with heretics (word derives from that very incedent Heretic-history denyer)
the heretics refused the new testiment that constantine came up with and hid many other perfectly equaly legitamate christian litriture,m such as the dead sea scrolls and a few others i cant pronounce.
the roman catholic church still works like the roman empire and little bits still crop up like halos for example being mutch the same as roman and egyptian icons (look familiar)
also their are other theories which arnt proven facts like the above, the idia that jesus would have been a nobleman of the house of soloman and mary magdaline wasnt a hoar but of the house of david (the romans wouldnt have like them getting married) second a jewish man at that time not being married was scandalouse, he DEFINATLY would have to have ben married to be socialy exeptable. there are many other flaws butmy point is to those that take the bible literaly cos people do. and to those who are more open minded and spiritual wheres the message in the bible and the church? and if you learn
the message from anywhear else why is it done through christianity when you could explore spirituality for yourself (if you do be impartial to your spiritualty or you will end up as a cult member/leader) but why dont people listen to themselfs? The clergy are on a huge power trip.
and bush worships the war god apollo :D

cheers for taking your time to read it and try to ignore my spelling.
if you dont think its 100% accurate comment on it fine but its correct as a whole. and i havnt read it through so iron it out for me please if you can.

the Christian God is Yahweh (aka Jehovah)

the roman catholic church has a lot of blood on its hands and millions are getting aids cos of the fact that contraception is contrabaned. Why are catholics bothered so mutch about sex? isnt that a bit creepy? why are there so many strange bits in the church?

the Christian God is Yahweh (aka Jehovah)
um Apollo cos thats who constantine worshiped innit?

Good, because it's supposed to be a work of fiction and not a historically accurate research paper.

which is my reason for not trusting it,in a nutshell

wasnt something like that in the davinci code?i dont trust the historical accuracy of that book one bit.
me neither so i looked on the internet and found this to be true and reasonable to historians

Apollo is not a war god. ;) He was rather a pansy, more into art, music and looking handsome.
thats the greek apollo (hes just like me) romans have an apollo too hes scarier (like me) :D

the Christian God is Yahweh (aka Jehovah)

Actually,.. well,.. who am I to argue..?! :)

I am a christian, and my god is, as the old folks from the various
monotheistic traditions would say,.. the "ineffable" god.

Ineffable = http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=ineffable

..God has no name. And no personality. And no mind.

The Apollo inspired "character" as "god" is a device for whatever purposes
those who created him wanted to put him to.

But the christian, and the muslim, and the jew, and the kahule'iopu, and the
xoctlioa, and all the other true monotheists believe only in the ineffable one
as god.

Apollo is not a war god. ;) He was rather a pansy, more into art, music and looking handsome.
Well, he fought Rocky and then taught him the eye of the tiger.

wasnt something like that in the davinci code?i dont trust the historical accuracy of that book one bit.

the priory of scion referenced int he book was innacurate, and the years were toyed with a bit, but the overall truth of the christan god being a conglomerate of many traditions and gospels etc. is historical fact. the church's answer to it is the typical: "god guided the hands of many to create his image".

True, such as the evidence that the Minoan belief in the Goddess of the earth provided the basis for the Virgin Mary. No, that doesn't sound right. It could be worth looking into, if the cult of Mary was used to exercise vast power - but it wasn't. Philosophies are similar because people think similarly.

hey, the conspiracy theories are up to date on this; I haven't read the Da Vinci code but the piramid outside the Louvre makes me think, "Paris" makes me think, the new age people who worship "a Mother" makes me think, the unknown mission of Bouillon and friend makes me think; Benedict XVI calling France as "the recovered daughter of the church" also makes me think...

...that this conspiracy:

1.- Is real.
2.- Is false, but even the Pope supports his "enemies".

And don't forget the suicides of Montségur, or the Egyptian Christians...

thats the greek apollo (hes just like me) romans have an apollo too hes scarier (like me) :D
Well, according to this website (http://janusquirinus.org/essays/Apollo/MS.html) (the first I found in the search) the Roman Apollo was a healer and a god of "peace, culture, safety and superstition" (oracular reading).

Actually,.. well,.. who am I to argue..?! :)

I am a christian, and my god is, as the old folks from the various
monotheistic traditions would say,.. the "ineffable" god.

Ineffable = http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=ineffable

..God has no name. And no personality. And no mind.

The Apollo inspired "character" as "god" is a device for whatever purposes
those who created him wanted to put him to.

But the christian, and the muslim, and the jew, and the kahule'iopu, and the
xoctlioa, and all the other true monotheists believe only in the ineffable one
as god.

yeah. other names for God/Jesus:

Alpha and Omega (God)
I Am (Jesus)
Bright Morning Star (Jesus)
Lily of the Valley (Jesus)
Lamb of God (or simply The Lamb -- Jesus)
Messiah (Jesus)
Immanuel (Jesus)
Lord of the Sabbath (Jesus)
El Shaddai (sp?)
El Elyonna (sp?)
Adonai

but the overall truth of the christan god being a conglomerate of many traditions and gospels etc. is historical fact. the church's answer to it is the typical: "god guided the hands of many to create his image".


proof?

(besides the da vinici code)

Actually,.. well,.. who am I to argue..?! :)

I am a christian, and my god is, as the old folks from the various
monotheistic traditions would say,.. the "ineffable" god.

Ineffable = http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=ineffable

..God has no name. And no personality. And no mind.

The Apollo inspired "character" as "god" is a device for whatever purposes
those who created him wanted to put him to.

But the christian, and the muslim, and the jew, and the kahule'iopu, and the
xoctlioa, and all the other true monotheists believe only in the ineffable one
as god.


i read somewhere that Gods name is YVJH.i think it might have had something to do with true names(ie if you say someone true name out loud you get total power over that person,thus saying Gods name out loud would make you God)

(yes christians do kill people)

And yes, Atheists kill too. :rolleyes:

Some bad Christians. If Christians kill people over faith, they have no right to call themselves Christians. Will everyone please stop trying to say Christianity is bad? Atheism killed people in the past, but we NEVER hear about that on these forums! It makes me mad. :upyours:

since the christian god predated constantine and came from a different religious strain than the roman gods, id say that the christian god isnt apollo.

Please remember that the Roman Catholic Church=/=all of Christianity.

Saying something about the origins of the Catholic Church does not mean that it applies to all Christians.

For some reason, many seem to think that all Christians are Catholics and vice versa.

Not even!

Will everyone please stop trying to say Christianity is bad? Atheism killed people in the past, but we NEVER hear about that on these forums! It makes me mad. :upyours:

Don't kill me! :eek:

On topic:
Yes, you bring up interesting [read: Wacky] points, but this is how many religions are/have been/will be created.

Don't kill me! :eek:

Just what I need to see. More ignorance and Stupidity.... :rolleyes:

For some reason, many seem to think that all Christians are Catholics and vice versa.

I would agree that not all Christians are Catholics, but I'm pretty sure all Catholics are Christians.

i read somewhere that Gods name is YVJH.i think it might have had something to do with true names(ie if you say someone true name out loud you get total power over that person,thus saying Gods name out loud would make you God)


Sort of. It's actually (usually) JHVH and is referring to the original Hebrew name for God, generally reserved for the high priest on the Day of Atonement. The pronunciation was lost over time, though the exact reason why it was lost is speculated: it was a name of power; superstitious fear of taking his name in vane; the destruction of the temple, etc.


I'm sure I'm lacking some information there, but that's the gist as far as I know.

And yes, Atheists kill too. :rolleyes:

Some bad Christians. If Christians kill people over faith, they have no right to call themselves Christians. Will everyone please stop trying to say Christianity is bad? Atheism killed people in the past, but we NEVER hear about that on these forums! It makes me mad. :upyours:


Just curious what your take is on the Crusades.

And don't forget the suicides of Montségur, or the Egyptian Christians...

You either live near it, or listen to Iron Maiden. :)

Let's see... someone else pointed out RC =/= Christianity
Someone pointed out Constantine postdates Christianity

For that matter, Christianity had a pretty firm hold on the Eastern Roman culture by the time Constantine came into power and Rome had fallen a couple of times.

So... Prieuré de Sion, as it is in French would be related to how Jesus became the father of the Merovingians and that there is still a pure-blooded member left, being the sole heir of Jesus. Or something more complex, depending how much asprin you have handy.

When you're conconcting hoaxes, internal consistency is the key. Keep it simple, keep away from elaborate mind games unless you know what you're doing, and for God's Sake, don't ignore the rules of grammar! Spellchecking is essential to being taken seriously. :)

Just curious what your take is on the Crusades.

The question was not asked of me, but I think the atrocities commited in the Crusades was a result of human cruelty and arrogance, not the dictates of Christianity, however much the original intentions were good.

Just curious what your take is on the Crusades.

Muslims wouldn't allow Europeans/Christians to visit the Holy Land...

Apollo is not a war god. ;) He was rather a pansy, more into art, music and looking handsome.
He was also the god of plagues, in addition to be the god of healing, prophacy, and eventualy the sun.

Just curious what your take is on the Crusades.

Well, If the Muslims really were oppressing the people of Israel, and the Christians were trying to liberate them, than I think it was a good idea. If the stories of Muslim oppression were propadanga (Spelling?) It was wrong.

Either way, I don't care anymore, and it just shows stupidity whenever an Atheist uses it to insult Christianity. It happened 800 years ago, for the love of God!!

Edit: I also agree with North Falklands.

In case anyone was wondering, Jhvh is an ancient hebrew name for God. It translates, and was pronounced, as Jehovah because ancient hebrew did not have written vowels. Makes translations very difficult and also leads to a lot of the "Bible code" type things.

thats the greek apollo (hes just like me) romans have an apollo too hes scarier (like me) :D
The roman god of war was Mars corresponding to the greek god Aries(sp).
And personally I think that if any roman god was incorporated into christianity it would probably have been Jove, ie Jupitar, since he was the head god.

Well, If the Muslims really were oppressing the people of Israel, and the Christians were trying to liberate them, than I think it was a good idea. If the stories of Muslim oppression were propadanga (Spelling?) It was wrong.

Either way, I don't care anymore, and it just shows stupidity whenever an Atheist uses it to insult Christianity. It happened 800 years ago, for the love of God!!

Edit: I also agree with North Falklands.



Um, no worries, it was a question, not an attack. I'm not an athiest, either.

But yes, two sides to the same war. Chances are, thou shalt not kill wasn't "unless we have a good reason."

Muslims wouldn't allow Europeans/Christians to visit the Holy Land...
So if someone has a frigde full of cokes, and wont let you in, is it then okay to break the door and kill everyone involved? (I appologise for the crude analogy, but...)

And yes, Atheists kill too. :rolleyes:

Some bad Christians. If Christians kill people over faith, they have no right to call themselves Christians. Will everyone please stop trying to say Christianity is bad? Atheism killed people in the past, but we NEVER hear about that on these forums! It makes me mad. :upyours:

I get your anger. Tell you what, I will promise to try and forget about the crusades if you can forgive some atheists. Not all socialists were in the Stasi either. Probably.
Seriously though, religion is usually the excuse not the reason unless it has permeated a society so completely that it cannot begin to understand the other side.

btw Anyone read "Birth of Tragedy" by Nietzsche where he goes on at great lengths about the symbolism of Apollo in Greek culture?

Um, no worries, it was a question, not an attack. I'm not an athiest, either.

Ok. It's cool now. :)

But yes, two sides to the same war. Chances are, thou shalt not kill wasn't "unless we have a good reason."

Well, we had to kill to stop the Fasists and Naazis from kiling.

Um, no worries, it was a question, not an attack. I'm not an athiest, either.

But yes, two sides to the same war. Chances are, thou shalt not kill wasn't "unless we have a good reason."
And yet God himself ordered the killing of more than a few people in the old Testament. Tell me, this is one of the most cited "contradictions" in the Bible, this commandment and the order of God for men to kill other men; the isrealites and the caananites for example.

I get your anger. Tell you what, I will promise to try and forget about the crusades if you can forgive some atheists.

I was never mad at all Atheists. Just because Stalin was an Atheist doesn't mean I'm mad at all Atheists. I also don't think I have to be forgiven for the wrongs that my ancestors did, don't you think?

Seriously though, religion is usually the excuse not the reason unless it has permeated a society so completely that it cannot begin to understand the other side.

It's sad. It's very sad that some evil people use good Religions to justifie their crimes. :(

Ok. It's cool now. :)



Well, we had to kill to stop the Fasists and Naazis from kiling.



WWII wasn't about religion for most (if any truly) countries involved.

And yet God himself ordered the killing of more than a few people in the old Testament. Tell me, this is one of the most cited "contradictions" in the Bible, this commandment and the order of God for men to kill other men; the isrealites and the caananites for example.


Ya.. Kinda messed up, huh?


YOU CAN'T HAVE A COKE! (to use the previous analogy)
here, have one.
Like having a father that has multiple personaly disorder.

Ya.. Kinda messed up, huh?


YOU CAN'T HAVE A COKE! (to use the previous analogy)
here, have one.
Like having a father that has multiple personaly disorder.



Whoa whoa whoa.. Where'd the talk of Apollo and Rocky go?


And for the record, I'm not actually against any religion here.. just like playing devil's advocate (no pun intended) to see what people think.

Cool stuff about Constantine: it is not known if he converted to Christianity at all (although his mother did) - which is a paradox given that he's a saint in several Churches. If he was, he was probably converted by a heretic bishop, and only on his deathbed; at the same time, the the symbols on coins from his time still showed the godess Victoria crowning him.
His mother claimed she had found the True Cross in Jerusalem - when the Persians took over Jerusalem, for a brief while, they took the relic and buried it under a street in (I think it was) Damascus, for all paganry to walk upon. Guess what? The Christians found ANOTHER True Cross.

LoL. I think the subject just walked away from apollo.


Well darn, no one's up to defending against my question? I'm not trying to be hostile. As a christian myself, this is one I get asked from time to time.

And yet God himself ordered the killing of more than a few people in the old Testament. Tell me, this is one of the most cited "contradictions" in the Bible, this commandment and the order of God for men to kill other men; the isrealites and the caananites for example.
The most obvious deffence is that thou shall not kill is only one possible translation. The other accepted possible translation is thou shall not murder. This would mean that killing in a war would not be exspressly(sp) forbidden, and makes more sense considering the number of crimes listed that are punishable by death.

LoL. I think the subject just walked away from apollo.


Well darn, no one's up to defending against my question? I'm not trying to be hostile. As a christian myself, this is one I get asked from time to time.


The one about the commandment and the commands? I'd say the easiest way to answer that would be referring to the Thou Shalt Not Judge, so that no man may choose the death of another, only when it is chosen by God. So, making the Crusades ordained and not subject to the Law.


Though.. ouch.


Then again, hypothetically if there was a person alive that their continuation of life would mean the death of millions (for whatever hypothetical, rigid reason) would their death be justified, even "holy?"

The most obvious deffence is that thou shall not kill is only one possible translation. The other accepted possible translation is thou shall not murder. This would mean that killing in a war would not be exspressly(sp) forbidden, and makes more sense considering the number of crimes listed that are punishable by death.


How is it that killing in a war would not be murder but killing individually would be?

Thou Shalt Not Judge,

:confused: Since when has that been in the Ten Commandments?

How is it that killing in a war would not be murder but killing individually would be?
War is legal, homicide isn't. As to if it is moral or not thats another issue.

:confused: Since when has that been in the Ten Commandments?


No, in Christianity: Judge not, lest ye be judged etc..

War is legal, homicide isn't. As to if it is moral or not thats another issue.


I guess I was talking about the moral aspect of it.

Yup, those are the two most widely accepted explinations, though by far not the only ones. Just thought I would bring that up as someone touched on it with the crusades.

I guess I was talking about the moral aspect of it.
Then its much more debatable. When is force acceptable, when it is in self defence? Yet Jesus was a pacifist and preached to turn the other cheek and accept what ever was done to you. But if your Catholic you have the church sanctioned Just War Theory, whereby war is only justified if it is the lesser of two evils, of course this is a rather new philosophy and didn't come into play in the past. Its really complicated, like anything dealing with religon.

Hate to say it but I'm out; gonna go have premarital sex and eat some shellfish or something. This was fun everyone!

Then its much more debatable. When is force acceptable, when it is in self defence? Yet Jesus was a pacifist and preached to turn the other cheek and accept what ever was done to you. But if your Catholic you have the church sanctioned Just War Theory, whereby war is only justified if it is the lesser of two evils, of course this is a rather new philosophy and didn't come into play in the past. Its really complicated, like anything dealing with religon.

Word!

Originally Posted by Thuriliacayo
Actually,.. well,.. who am I to argue..?!

I am a christian, and my god is, as the old folks from the various
monotheistic traditions would say,.. the "ineffable" god.

Ineffable = http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=ineffable

..God has no name. And no personality. And no mind.

The Apollo inspired "character" as "god" is a device for whatever purposes
those who created him wanted to put him to.

But the christian, and the muslim, and the jew, and the kahule'iopu, and the
xoctlioa, and all the other true monotheists believe only in the ineffable one
as god.

i read somewhere that Gods name is YVJH.i think it might have had something to do with true names(ie if you say someone true name out loud you get total power over that person,thus saying Gods name out loud would make you God)

That is true, to an extent. I believe in the case of the hebrew name of god,
to pronounce it was instant death, not power over it,.. but of course the
name itself was physically UNPRONOUNCABLE, which is a nice safety device
to keep people from frying themselves by mumbling the name in their sleep, or
little kids doing a deadly version of the "betch can't say THIS!" game.

Originally Posted by Foxstenikopolis
And yes, Atheists kill too.

Some bad Christians. If Christians kill people over faith, they have no right to call themselves Christians. Will everyone please stop trying to say Christianity is bad? Atheism killed people in the past, but we NEVER hear about that on these forums! It makes me mad.

Just curious what your take is on the Crusades.

The crusades were territorial expansion attempts. Simple as that.

Was the unifying power of christianity used as a tool to promote said
territorial expansion attempt. Yes.

Does that have any relevance to christianity as a system of belief? No.

Would you like to know why?

the roman catholic church has a lot of blood on its hands and millions are getting aids cos of the fact that contraception is contrabaned. Why are catholics bothered so mutch about sex? isnt that a bit creepy? why are there so many strange bits in the church?

Contraceptives have nothing to do with AIDs.

LoL. I think the subject just walked away from apollo.


Well darn, no one's up to defending against my question? I'm not trying to be hostile. As a christian myself, this is one I get asked from time to time.

What is your question again?

Apollo was "transmogrified" into a "jesus-like" character. I agree.

But is jesus simply apollo in new clothes? No.

Now,.. what WAS your question again? :)

Good Apollo, I'm burning star.

thats the greek apollo (hes just like me) romans have an apollo too hes scarier (like me) :D

Roman god of war was MARS not Apollo. The Greek Apollo is as well the Roman one.

Roman god of war was MARS not Apollo. The Greek Apollo is as well the Roman one.
This has been adressed, although Apollo was probably pretty scary in his role as the bringer of plagues.

Originally Posted by The Psyker
Then its much more debatable. When is force acceptable, when it is in self defence? Yet Jesus was a pacifist and preached to turn the other cheek and accept what ever was done to you. But if your Catholic you have the church sanctioned Just War Theory, whereby war is only justified if it is the lesser of two evils, of course this is a rather new philosophy and didn't come into play in the past. Its really complicated, like anything dealing with religon.

Word!

This is rubish. Jesus was neither pacifist nor non-pacifist.

You "turn the other cheek" when the assault on you is an assailment of your
faith. Since it's impossible to harm true faith, the cheek-turning is merely the
act of demonstrating that no harm has been done to your faith.

Turning the other cheek is not about a masochistic invitation to have your
person assaulted again. It's simply about showing that no harm has been
done and that no assault on the attacker will be coming because it makes no
sense to attack someone's faith in response to an attack on YOUR faith.

"Just War" is merely man's duty to judge the behavior of men, not their
FAITH, and when that behavior is "bad" it must be quelled.

It's not at all complicated. It IS difficult though.

This has been adressed, although Apollo was probably pretty scary in his role as the bringer of plagues.

He may have been scary, but then why would Constantine have followed him? Being a soldier he would be more likely to worship Mars. It makes no sense... And Constantine didn't make Christianity a state religion, only gave it favor (just for details sake)

1. Apollo is not god of war, Mars is

2. Constantine supposedly converted to Christianity on that battlefiend, giving up whatever deities he followed before.

3. Catholicism is NOT the same as Biblical Christianity (some may argue, but what the Bible says and what the Catholic Church says often do not mesh)

4. Constantine's beliefs may or may NOT have coincided with the -real- Christianity. What he believed has NO BEARING on what a real Christian should believe now.

5. Before you think I'm some Christian just trying to defend my faith, I am not. I'm just some guy who likes to study religion.

1. Apollo is not god of war, Mars is

2. Constantine supposedly converted to Christianity on that battlefiend, giving up whatever deities he followed before.

3. Catholicism is NOT the same as Biblical Christianity (some may argue, but what the Bible says and what the Catholic Church says often do not mesh)

4. Constantine's beliefs may or may NOT have coincided with the -real- Christianity. What he believed has NO BEARING on what a real Christian should believe now.

5. Before you think I'm some Christian just trying to defend my faith, I am not. I'm just some guy who likes to study religion.

Very good..!! :)

My opinion,.. Constantine found a useful tool. He used it for his purposes.
That tool evolved into some very interesting social systems and personal
(belief) systems.

I have also found a useful tool. I call it my christianity. I find it very useful for
my purposes.

Are we all as free as Constantine to decide what we will make of, and with,
our tools? Yes.

He may have been scary, but then why would Constantine have followed him? Being a soldier he would be more likely to worship Mars. It makes no sense... And Constantine didn't make Christianity a state religion, only gave it favor (just for details sake)
I'm not saying he would have just trying to come up with a reason why that poster might think that Apollo could be scary.

the roman catholic church has a lot of blood on its hands and millions are getting aids cos of the fact that contraception is contrabaned. Why are catholics bothered so mutch about sex? isnt that a bit creepy? why are there so many strange bits in the church?

What is the link between AIDs and contraception anyway ? Someone with AIDs or HIV shouldn't be have sexual intercorse contraception or not. And if abstinence was actually used, coupled with extensive testing.. The issue would be moot wouldn't it ?

Its the very fact that people put faith in contraception (which is not fool proof) or are either ignorant, or indifferent to the reality that having sexual intercourse in a permiscious manner is dangerous.

If you looked at the two extreme cases, where 1. everyone uses contraception when having sexual intercourse.. you would not achieve a state where AIDS would become irradicated, because contraception is not 100% effective, where as if everyone used abstinence, you could well invision an enviornment were AIDS would be irradicated as it would have few avenues to spread.

This is rubish. Jesus was neither pacifist nor non-pacifist.

You "turn the other cheek" when the assault on you is an assailment of your
faith. Since it's impossible to harm true faith, the cheek-turning is merely the
act of demonstrating that no harm has been done to your faith.

Turning the other cheek is not about a masochistic invitation to have your
person assaulted again. It's simply about showing that no harm has been
done and that no assault on the attacker will be coming because it makes no
sense to attack someone's faith in response to an attack on YOUR faith.

"Just War" is merely man's duty to judge the behavior of men, not their
FAITH, and when that behavior is "bad" it must be quelled.

It's not at all complicated. It IS difficult though.
Thats debatable, the pacifism that has underlined quite a few christian sects has been based on the interpertation I put forward. Indicating that it is an area that can be contentious and open to interpertation, meaning it is complicated. Basicly it boils down to weither this was one of Jesus abstract examples or a litteral command.

I'm not saying he would have just trying to come up with a reason why that poster might think that Apollo could be scary.

but that wasn't his orginal intention. The whole point of the thread was to say, since Constantine orginally was a soldier he would have worshiped Apollo (sun god, and god of war [WRONG])... him being scary was just a side note. And god being Mars really dosn't fit does it ? ... instead he should be concentrating more on the apprition Constantine had during his rule which caused him to convert.

Thats debatable, the pacifism that has underlined quite a few christian sects has been based on the interpertation I put forward. Indicating that it is an area that can be contentious and open to interpertation, meaning it is complicated. Basicly it boils down to weither this was one of Jesus abstract examples or a litteral command.

This is why you can't speak of "Christian" ideals as a generality as different sects debate everything from who is actually getting into heaven (elect vs the deeds you do) to wheather or not the Virgin Mary, was actually a virgin.

1. Apollo is not god of war, Mars is

2. Constantine supposedly converted to Christianity on that battlefiend, giving up whatever deities he followed before.

3. Catholicism is NOT the same as Biblical Christianity (some may argue, but what the Bible says and what the Catholic Church says often do not mesh)

4. Constantine's beliefs may or may NOT have coincided with the -real- Christianity. What he believed has NO BEARING on what a real Christian should believe now.

5. Before you think I'm some Christian just trying to defend my faith, I am not. I'm just some guy who likes to study religion.
Acctualy Constantine didn't technicly convert on the battlefield. He supposedly had a vision in which a cross apeard and a voice said he would conqure in that sign, so he had the cross painted on his mens shield and after winning he stoped the persecution of the christians, he was never a practising christian and wasn't babtized until on his death bed. It was the next emperor, whose name I'm blanking on, who made Christianity the official religion if memory serves.

but that wasn't his orginal intention. The whole point of the thread was to say, since Constantine orginally was a soldier he would have worshiped Apollo (sun god, and god of war [WRONG])... him being scary was just a side note. And god being Mars really dosn't fit does it ? ... instead he should be concentrating more on the apprition Constantine had during his rule which caused him to convert.
yea but side notes are fun ;)

Umm.... yeah, Constantine didn't make Christianity the official religion of the Roman Empire. That's a common misconception. The edict he issued made Christianity LEGAL, not OFFICIAL. There's a HUGE difference there.

Constantine, like most "Christians" or even Christians, at the time had a firm belief that was a befuddlement of the Old Testament Judaism and a the New Testament Christianity. What they believed was that you could not go to heaven unless you were pure upon being saved. Thus, most people would get saved on their deathbeds to remain holy the last few seconds of their lives and get to heaven. Many pagans did this as well, and Constantine was one of these pagans who just decided to not be wrong at the last second. He allowed Christianity to continue because it was a useful tool, seeing as much of the world believed in the religion.

The god of war was Mars, not Apollo. Apollo was granted the right of being the "plague bearer" only after the Christian tales of Moses became common knowledge. It was the Roman attempt to bleed Christianity into their pagan beliefs and was a very common thing for them to do. Hence them having such a huge pantheon of gods and adopting much of Grecian gods.

The Old Testament word for it was not "kill" it was "murder" if you would like a Hewbrew word analysis to describe why I come to that conclusion, I will grab my tools and write it out. Also, it was originally YHWH, not JHVH... "J" and "V" were originally Hebrew consonents. It was "YRSLM" but we made it "Jerusalem". The vowel notes that we learn defines how we pronounce a word were not introduced until the 400s AD by I think it was the Midianites (I could have the tribe wrong) and by then the two letters "j" and "v" were introduced into Hebrew culture, and the word pronunciations changed. However, if you are to ask anybody who speaks Hebrew and writes the Torah as they did back then, he would say "Yahweh".

Uhm.... yes. I think that's all I was going to comment on. If I see more, I'll mention it.

That all seems alright except that Apollo had his relation with plagues before the development of christianity, those killed by plagues being concidered to have been struck down by a shot from Apollo's bow, or Artemis' if they were a women. There is mention of this in several ancient Greek myths.

the Christian God is Yahweh (aka Jehovah)
ok, this is the only one I bothered to read
Apollo?? Our god(our as in us NS Christians)? HA! Jehovah-Yehweh was Arahams, Jews, and Ismalic god, then it's our, sicne we are Jews who belived Jesus came and left and don't celebrate ALL those things...

That all seems alright except that Apollo had his relation with plagues before the development of christianity, those killed by plagues being concidered to have been struck down by a shot from Apollo's bow, or Artemis' if they were a women. There is mention of this in several ancient Greek myths.

Yes, and it's also stated in Thucydides' "History of the Peloponnesian War" (5th Century BC) that the Oracle of Delphi (who served Apollo) prophecied a plague to come down upon Athens, which it did in the second year of the war. Just in case you want a more objective source showing the connection.

wasnt something like that in the davinci code?i dont trust the historical accuracy of that book one bit.

I don't know, but there's definitly something almost exactly this in Jack Chick comics. Except he says that it's proof that the Catholic Church is devoted to Satan, because all the gods of all other religions are just Satan in disguise, and Apollo is Satan in his aspect as Baal, the Lord of the Flies who breeds mosquitos by warming the pools that incubate their eggs.

Of course, Apollo is the bringer of life, the giver of law and order (inventor of the jury trial), and the unfailing enemy of the darkness who rises every morning to banish it. So right wing Christians can take anything good and make it out to be evil and vice versa. They really are the royalty of deception that way.

What is your question again?

Apollo was "transmogrified" into a "jesus-like" character. I agree.

But is jesus simply apollo in new clothes? No.

Now,.. what WAS your question again? :)

Right. He's a combination of Apollo and Dionysus. Son of a god who's a bringer of order, peace, prophecy, and wine. :)

That all seems alright except that Apollo had his relation with plagues before the development of christianity, those killed by plagues being concidered to have been struck down by a shot from Apollo's bow, or Artemis' if they were a women. There is mention of this in several ancient Greek myths.

You might be right. I always knew, though, that a lot of Greek and Roman themes were drawn from a lot of Christian ones. I believe, though I could be messing it up, that the Egyptians remembered Moses' plagues as did the Jews. The history spread from it, and so it came to that the Greeks said it was a god of the sun (i.e. a god who dwelled in the heavens) that brought the plagues. That's the history as I have known it. If I'm wrong... -shrugs- No big deal.

Originally Posted by Thuriliacayo
This is rubish. Jesus was neither pacifist nor non-pacifist.

You "turn the other cheek" when the assault on you is an assailment of your
faith. Since it's impossible to harm true faith, the cheek-turning is merely the
act of demonstrating that no harm has been done to your faith.

Turning the other cheek is not about a masochistic invitation to have your
person assaulted again. It's simply about showing that no harm has been
done and that no assault on the attacker will be coming because it makes no
sense to attack someone's faith in response to an attack on YOUR faith.

"Just War" is merely man's duty to judge the behavior of men, not their
FAITH, and when that behavior is "bad" it must be quelled.

It's not at all complicated. It IS difficult though.

Thats debatable, the pacifism that has underlined quite a few christian sects has been based on the interpertation I put forward. Indicating that it is an area that can be contentious and open to interpertation, meaning it is complicated. Basicly it boils down to weither this was one of Jesus abstract examples or a litteral command.

You can debate it, of course. I'm sure it would be interesting to hear your
reasoning on the matter.

One could try to convince anyone that the sky is blue, or gray, or paisley,
and that would be a good show. What is your "case" for Jesus being a
pacifist,.. or being the anti-apollo,.. or being the novo-apollo,.. or
what "pacifism" means,.. or whatever else you want to talk about? :)

I don't know if anyone spoke to the Dead Sea Scrolls yet, but they were hidden by a Radical Jewish Sect and have zero New Testament books in them they are purely Hebrew Works of the Christian Old Testament. Also to the Canon, Constantine did not choose it arbitrarily by himself he had a large Council of Church Leaders who spent lots of time figuring out which books to include and which to leave out.

kahule'iopu, and the
xoctlioa,
yrglsweri

see, I can make up words too.

Originally Posted by Thuriliacayo
kahule'iopu, and the
xoctlioa,

yrglsweri

see, I can make up words too.

Good for you..!! :D

And your point would be..?

Do you see my point in making up those "monotheistic people"..?

Also, the state religion under Constantine was Sol Invictus, not Apollo.