NationStates Jolt Archive

Whats up with all the bullshit ? Make a point instead of playing word perfect .

If you are unclear on MY point . Its STOP with the bullshit and make a point .

What I'm unclear on is how you could have gotten this far in the thread a posted, and supposedly read, sources that say what they do and still be unaware that if there was a war(depends on your definition), it was undeclared, that the Hague Convention does not say what you claim, and that your bank account doesn't measure success, talent, effort or drive. Would you care to explain how that happened? Seriously the blanket statements about how the poor are, as a class, stupid and not talented were simply flooring. If you feel like the responses are intolerant they are simply reflective of your own intolerance.

What I'm unclear on is how you could have gotten this far in the thread a posted, and supposedly read, sources that say what they do and still be unaware that if there was a war(depends on your definition), it was undeclared, that the Hague Convention does not say what you claim, and that your bank account doesn't measure success, talent, effort or drive. Would you care to explain how that happened? Seriously the blanket statements about how the poor are, as a class, stupid and not talented were simply flooring. If you feel like the responses are intolerant they are simply reflective of your own intolerance.

I disaggree your bank account does measure success , talent , effort and drive . especially in the United States . We are a capitalist country , although there are other ways to measure success , talent effort and drive . A bank account or how much wealth you have accumulated and have held on to , is one of the BEST indicators. Of course you do not HAVE to own any talent or be a success and have no drive or ambition and still be rich by an accident of birth . But thats why there is a campaign .
The Hague convention says what it says . I used it to illustrate that a state of war exist when hostilitys commence . I used it to respond to a question about what it actually says.
I had or have no desire to make blanket statements about the poor . I know better than most that not all poor people are stupid . I never said they have no talent . I said what I did to illustrate the point that a poor person is not qualified to be the president . If you think a poor person would make a good president then GOD bless you . I would love to see that reasoning !
I also find it very hard to believe you did not get my point .
If want want to believe that a declared war never happened ...go for it . Your in denial . It was all make believe.
Since when did intent and reality get superseded by a word or words .
Your argument boils down to , they didnt do the secret handshake and fill out the proper forms so it doesnt count .

I disaggree your bank account does measure success , talent , effort and drive . especially in the United States . We are a capitalist country , although there are other ways to measure success , talent effort and drive . A bank account or how much wealth you have accumulated and have held on to , is one of the BEST indicators. Of course you do not HAVE to own any talent or be a success and have no drive or ambition and still be rich by an accident of birth . But thats why there is a campaign .
The Hague convention says what it says . I used it to illustrate that a state of war exist when hostilitys commence . I used it to respond to a question about what it actually says.
I had or have no desire to make blanket statements about the poor . I know better than most that not all poor people are stupid . I never said they have no talent . I said what I did to illustrate the point that a poor person is not qualified to be the president . If you think a poor person would make a good president then GOD bless you . I would love to see that reasoning !
I also find it very hard to believe you did not get my point .
If want want to believe that a declared war never happened ...go for it . Your in denial . It was all make believe.
Since when did intent and reality get superseded by a word or words .
Your argument boils down to , they didnt do the secret handshake and fill out the proper forms so it doesnt count .
Hmmm... well, it seems I could disprove your theory by finding just one untalented, unsuccessful, not driven and lazy rich person. Gee, I wonder if I could find one. Golly, there can't be any of those, can there? Hmmm...
Nope. There's not a one. Paris Hilton is clearly a hardworking and amazingly successful person. She certainly isn't just living on her family's money and fame. Nicole Richey, yep, it would silly to say that Nicole Richey isn't talented or driven. That would be crazy. Probably couldn't come up with even one example. It's simply impossible. Maybe someone else could come up with someone. I can't wait till Paris Hilton is old enough to run for President because she would be a much better President than Mother Theresa. I'm glad you've found the big secret to picking the best candidate. Screw watching the debate, I'll just check their individual net worths and the one whose parents gave them the most money wins. Nothing dumb about that.

I hear a lot of people, especially from places like Germany and France, say that it's not the "American people" they hate, it's the "American government."

In a democracy ( which is what the American government is, despite all the rhetoric on both sides about it being "a republic." ) the government, in effect, is the people. The people vote for their leaders, petition them when needed, vote to re-elect or eject them, some even work for them to get elected.

So is trying to separate the government of a democracy from the people a valid thing to do? Is it simply an attempt to drive a wedge between the people and their government? Is there really any validity to this sort of statement?

Its a ****ing democratic republic.

I have TWO jobs. I work practically the whole week and get about one day off on average. I do NOT have time to babysit my damned politicans. And you know what? Most Americans that DO take part in voting and the system have two problems.

1. They don't have the time to babysit politicians either.

2. We are a minority. MOST Americans are actually pretty damned apathetic. Even in the 2004 election, only 30% actually got their ass to the voting booth. The election results do NOT reflect the general public, because the general public doesn't CARE untill something effects them directly.

3. The time we DO have off, only a small percentage of it is actually spent following the news or politics. The rest of the time we ENJOY OUR LIVES.

For craps sake, stop being such a damned prick and realize government and its societies systems don't follow your foolishly held concepts.

I have formed my OWN system for voting due to the extreme nature of me not being informed even though I wish I was.

1. Always vote against the incumbant no matter the party.

2. Only vote for the incumbant when I personally feel that they are great at their job. (For instance, John McCain for hypothetical example)

3. It does NOT matter what their policies are, vote against the politican in charge. Competition and close races put more pressure on politicans to do better. Also, the constant changing of politicans will eventually produce better canidates through competition.

Also, get this concept in your head. WE ARE A REPUBLIC. (the U.S.) We are not a democracy. We are a CONSTITUTIONAL DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC. The definition of republic means having representatives do the legislating because it is impossible to have absolute democracy in a nation this big.

Hmmm... well, it seems I could disprove your theory by finding just one untalented, unsuccessful, not driven and lazy rich person. Gee, I wonder if I could find one. Golly, there can't be any of those, can there? Hmmm...
Nope. There's not a one. Paris Hilton is clearly a hardworking and amazingly successful person. She certainly isn't just living on her family's money and fame. Nicole Richey, yep, it would silly to say that Nicole Richey isn't talented or driven. That would be crazy. Probably couldn't come up with even one example. It's simply impossible. Maybe someone else could come up with someone. I can't wait till Paris Hilton is old enough to run for President because she would be a much better President than Mother Theresa. I'm glad you've found the big secret to picking the best candidate. Screw watching the debate, I'll just check their individual net worths and the one whose parents gave them the most money wins. Nothing dumb about that.

You missed this on purpose ?

Of course you do not HAVE to own any talent or be a success and have no drive or ambition and still be rich by an accident of birth

Or maybe you didnt want to waste a good rant ?

Its a ****ing democratic republic.

I have TWO jobs. I work practically the whole week and get about one day off on average. I do NOT have time to babysit my damned politicans. And you know what? Most Americans that DO take part in voting and the system have two problems.

1. They don't have the time to babysit politicians either.

2. We are a minority. MOST Americans are actually pretty damned apathetic. Even in the 2004 election, only 30% actually got their ass to the voting booth. The election results do NOT reflect the general public, because the general public doesn't CARE untill something effects them directly.

3. The time we DO have off, only a small percentage of it is actually spent following the news or politics. The rest of the time we ENJOY OUR LIVES.

For craps sake, stop being such a damned prick and realize government and its societies systems don't follow your foolishly held concepts.

I have formed my OWN system for voting due to the extreme nature of me not being informed even though I wish I was.

1. Always vote against the incumbant no matter the party.

2. Only vote for the incumbant when I personally feel that they are great at their job. (For instance, John McCain for hypothetical example)

3. It does NOT matter what their policies are, vote against the politican in charge. Competition and close races put more pressure on politicans to do better. Also, the constant changing of politicans will eventually produce better canidates through competition.

Also, get this concept in your head. WE ARE A REPUBLIC. (the U.S.) We are not a democracy. We are a CONSTITUTIONAL DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC. The definition of republic means having representatives do the legislating because it is impossible to have absolute democracy in a nation this big.

James Madison, in trying to give us a republic instead of a democracy, wrote that "the accumulation of all powers, legislative, executive, and judicial, in the same hands, whether of one, a few, or many, and whether hereditary, self-appointed, or elective, may justly be denounced as the very definition of tyranny."

You have the right and the obligation as a citizen to vote . If you choose not to you CHOOSE to give up your rights to choose your representation .
Its not the fault of the system of government that its electorate thinks that everything is fine or that they are too lazy/ stupid / or didenchanted to vote. Its your obligation to be informed . And if you wish to influence your government its your obligation and your right to vote .

Check out this essay on why the US is what it is.

http://www.serendipity.li/jsmill/welch.html

You missed this on purpose ?

Or maybe you didnt want to waste a good rant ?

Oh, so you mean like George W. Bush, John Kerry and Al Gore whose parents just all happened to also be Senators or Presidents. I'm sure that the three most likely people to be president in the last two elections were only SONS (notice not daughters) of rich people and federal politicians by coincidence.

What I notice you missed is that there are more intelligent, more talented, more driven, more successful people who increased their net worth by far greater percentages who have do not have enough money to run for Congress, let alone the Presidency. You've failed to address how choosing to do something for reasons other than the paycheck makes you less successful. You've failed to address why it's impossible regardless of whether or not you represent the voters to make a run at the Presidency or Congress without the support of the gigantic lobbies and big business. You failed to address why it requires the level of funds that it does to run for a job that pays less than 1% of the cost of running. You failed to address anything of any consequence other than your completely misplaced faith in wealth as a measure of success. Could just as easily be a measure of how willing you are to screw people out of their hard-earned dollar, because while you'll not all rich people are thieves, certainly it's impossible to become rich if you're a surgeon who recognizes that performing surgeries on those that can't afford surgery is more valuable than performing surgery on those that don't need it and can afford it and decides to act on this recognition.

And yes, I'm sure a person who feels that it's better to be in the middle class and put the good of the people above the amount in their pocketbook would make a better President than someone who whores themselves out for as much money as they can get. But, hey, your system seems to be working. However, if you keep suggesting that the people who are elected President are the best that America has to offer, don't be surprised when other nations bash America because of the actions of our leaders. You've just justified their attacks. Because if GWB and John Kerry are the best that America has to offer then we're in big trouble, my friend.

EDIT: By the way, thanks for pointing out my folly. All this time I thought the reason why I personally make more money than 85 to 90% of the combined incomes of American families despite coming from poverty was impacted by the fact that I'm healthy, attractive, male and white, but it's good to find out that I am in fact just so wonderful that it was inevitable and having a disability, being unattractive, female or a minority would have no impact whatsoever. Thank you for setting me straight on what it's really like to live in America. I was also mistaken in thinking that success was measured by the positive impact you've had and by creating a loving home for your family and such things. It's good to know that it's just about the money you make. I can relax now, because barring head injury or other other similarly bad luck, it's highly unlikely that I'll ever not be making more than the vast majority of Americans. I love when people help me realize how wonderful I am for being white, male, attractive and rich. Thank you oh so much. :rolleyes:

You have the right and the obligation as a citizen to vote . If you choose not to you CHOOSE to give up your rights to choose your representation .
Its not the fault of the system of government that its electorate thinks that everything is fine or that they are too lazy/ stupid / or didenchanted to vote. Its your obligation to be informed . And if you wish to influence your government its your obligation and your right to vote .

Check out this essay on why the US is what it is.

http://www.serendipity.li/jsmill/welch.html

I DO vote. The reason I have two jobs is because later in life, I want to own a network of companies and encourage political reform slowly. (Only real way for political reform to happen is if patriots organize and become businessmen who have MONEY.)

I DO vote. The reason I have two jobs is because later in life, I want to own a network of companies and encourage political reform slowly. (Only real way for political reform to happen is if patriots organize and become businessmen who have MONEY.)

Isn't that sad? That in order to inspire change now you have to be rich?

Because if GWB and John Kerry are the best that America has to offer then we're in big trouble, my friend.



Common ground !!!! I aggree whole heartedly ! ;) If these two are the best society is doomed .

of course you know that politicians and people are very different

Isn't that sad? That in order to inspire change now you have to be rich?

No. It makes sense. Even the American revolution was funded by a few rich idealist that went into their own pocket such as Washington, Franklin, and Handcock.

People just forgot that. What is needed is intelligent leaders to organize, BUILD, and CONTRIBUTE to political reform. And a strategy of course. However building, organizing, and contributing and supporting other reformers takes money.

Money basicly boils down to persuasion.

No. It makes sense. Even the American revolution was funded by a few rich idealist that went into their own pocket such as Washington, Franklin, and Handcock.

People just forgot that. What is needed is intelligent leaders to organize, BUILD, and CONTRIBUTE to political reform. And a strategy of course. However building, organizing, and contributing and supporting other reformers takes money.

Money basicly boils down to persuasion.

It's still sad. I accept the truthfulness of it, but it's sad.