NationStates Jolt Archive

I'd be thankful for any help in this matter, as I'm not sure myself. I haven't really kept myself informed on mp3-players.

I've decided to buy a new mp3-player, but I'm not sure which brand; I used to be certain that I'd buy an iPod, but recently I've heard a lot of good things about zen-players, so I don't know what to do.

I'm looking for a good player, with long battery life. The cost should be around 2,000 SEK (roughly $260, £144, €214), though I might have to check the cost with local sellers. Size and look doesn't really matter.

Any help is greatly appreciated.

Depends on how much memory you want. $300 here in the US buys you 20 gigs. The ipod looks nice but battery life for the 20 gig was 8 hours last time I checked, while the iriver's 20 gig has a battery life of about 16 hours and an fm radio, and they're about the same size. Plus the iriver doesn't look half bad itself.

Yeah, and it is slightly cheaper... My brother insists on an iPod, and I usually trust his judgement, but this time I'm not so sure. With some extra coughing up from my side I might be able to get a 40gb zen, but it's quite a lot of money for me, so I want to be sure.

iRiver or Zen. The iPod is not that good.

The new ipod has at least a 15 hour life now. Ipods are small and sleek and they can take a lot of damage before conking off. Zens are quite a bit bulkier and they definitly wont take as much damage before breaking so I would say the Ipod. Anyways, the ipods now have color too.

i say a sony hd walkman, small, but has long battery life, the new hd5 has 50 hours, and the older hd3 (whch i have) has 30 hours with 20gb storage you cant go wrong.

My iPod is a few years old and I haven't had to recharge a battery that has been used less than twelve hours ever, and Ive even gotten 14 and more hour charges out of it.
But then my first Mp3 was an iRiver 128mb and I loved the crap out of, I still use it if I don't want to carry a three hundred dollar 'rob me' sign. (to avoid this, get non iPod earphones an learn to use your iPod through the fabric of your pocket. but even then sometimes you just don't want to risk it)

So, I'm a fan of those two brands, not sure about Zen but I have a friend who has one and wishes he'd bought something better.

iRivers are too expensive, at least here, and I can only find one walkman and it costs 3,500 SEK, so that one's also out of the question.

depends which is cheaper cos they all do the job just as well as each other.
i would argue creative have better sound quality in their products and choose the zen's because they don't look like white plastic lego bricks (yay for brushed aluminium), but there's not much difference apart from value for money (pounds per gigabyte)

That's the way I was reasoning as well, but my brothers reaction made me unsure.

The new ipod has at least a 15 hour life now. Ipods are small and sleek and they can take a lot of damage before conking off. Zens are quite a bit bulkier and they definitly wont take as much damage before breaking so I would say the Ipod. Anyways, the ipods now have color too.

Not so. The Zen is actually much more sturdy then the ipod and much more resistent to damage. And they have far better sound quality. The ipod is just junk when it comes to sound quality. Take it from a company that has been in the music business for years, Creative.

i brought a zen micro a couple of days ago, and im extremely pleased with it so far. i think the extra tenner you pay for the ipod is just for the name. so yeah, a zen.

the problem with the iPods sound quality is those crappy earbuds it comes with, shell out another 20$ or so and get some decent 'phones. It wil also keep you from looking like a Mac zombie waiting to be beaten and robbed.
and the iPod is very durable, I've dropped mine on a number of occasions (from my not inconsiderable height) and it still works perfectly and with no visible damage, and I have a friend who is even more careless with his and only had to return it because water under the LCD screen made it difficult to read.
I don't have experience wit the iRiver 20gb but my 128mb has survived far worse than my iPod and the sound quality is superb even with crappy iPod earbuds. I'm not sure about why the price is so high where you are, try the net, you could probably find a cheaper price. The iRivers features are also pretty unbeatable. whereas my friend with the zen is envious of people with dell DJs (which I abhor) as sound quality and lack of name recognition are pretty much the only things going for his zen.

Not so. The Zen is actually much more sturdy then the ipod and much more resistent to damage. And they have far better sound quality. The ipod is just junk when it comes to sound quality. Take it from a company that has been in the music business for years, Creative.

Well, as far as sound quality goes, I personally don't think there's any noticeable difference in quality between listening to (about 192 kbps) mp3's on an iPod (with the original headphones) and listening to AIFF's (or whatever other format the CD uses) on a CD player.

Neither, get an iRiver

Get the iPod nano.

I bought my Lyra about a year and a half ago, and have had absolutely no problems with it. It had 64Mb but since it takes SD cards I added a 1Gb card sometime later, which is plenty for 12 or so hours of music. As higher capacity SD cards become available you can upgrade easily (I also have a SD camera, so I can pretty much exchange cards freely) .

The rechargable AAAs last about 8-10 hours each.

Not bad for a sub-$100 player, eh?

Get the iPod nano.
Or you can get an iPod shuffle, who needs more than 1 gigabyte of songs at once?

Or you can get an iPod shuffle, who needs more than 1 gigabyte of songs at once?


The nano looks so-goddamned-cool though ;)

Well I'll continously defend my Creative Zen Nomad Xtra.. it is extremely durable, and I have dropped it a few times... on cement surfaces.. it only has a lil scratch and nothing else. There is a lot going for the Zen. It is eating up the Ipod's market share.

Well, as far as sound quality goes, I personally don't think there's any noticeable difference in quality between listening to (about 192 kbps) mp3's on an iPod (with the original headphones) and listening to AIFF's (or whatever other format the CD uses) on a CD player.

Umm.. the iPod does something like 80-85 DB SNR, while the Zen does anywhere from 90-98 DB SNR. THat's a very noticeable difference.

The nano looks so-goddamned-cool though ;)
No, it doesn't. it is just a smaller copy of the iPod.

Or you can get an iPod shuffle, who needs more than 1 gigabyte of songs at once?

Somebody like me who has 8.8GB of music (last I checked). At any rate, the Zen micro is better then all of those small ipods.

Somebody like me who has 8.8GB of music (last I checked). At any rate, the Zen micro is better then all of those small ipods.
Pfft... I have twice that and 1Gb have been plenty to provide me with variety on commutes and week-long trips.

Pfft... I have twice that and 1Gb have been plenty to provide me with variety on commutes and week-long trips.

Unlike you, I want something big enough where I can put ALL my songs on.

Somebody like me who has 8.8GB of music (last I checked).
Where would yo ube going that you need to bring 8.8GB of music? 1GB is about 600 files at 256kbs average. You can always break it down to a lower bit rate.

Where would yo ube going that you need to bring 8.8GB of music? 1GB is about 600 files at 256kbs average. You can always break it down to a lower bit rate.

Often, I have many songs that are.. err.. bootlegs. And I like a lot of variety. Trust me, I don't have 600 files. I have a lot more then that.. say like 2,000+.

Unlike you, I want something big enough where I can put ALL my songs on.
Yeah, but that's just a matter of choice. From a practical point of view it's not really necessary.

Depending on what you want to accomplish other factors like affordability, expandability, and size may outweight capacity. In my case not only am I a cheap bastard, but I also don't mind going through my music collection from time to time to refresh the list on my player. Actually I find it entertaining.

Yeah, but that's just a matter of choice. From a practical point of view it's not really necessary.

Depending on what you want to accomplish other factors like affordability, expandability, and size may outweight capacity. In my case not only am I a cheap bastard, but I also don't mind going through my music collection from time to time to refresh the list on my player. Actually I find it entertaining.

I did buy my 30GB Creative Zen Nomad for $196...

http://www.futurepowerpc.com/scripts/details.asp?PRDCODE=MPCR-ZENSLEEK20

Also check out that.. Creative Zen Sleek..

I did buy my 30GB Creative Zen Nomad for $196...
I got my Lyra for $60

I tell you, dude, I'm a cheap bastard :D

No, it doesn't. it is just a smaller copy of the iPod.

No, the ipod mini is a 'smaller copy of the ipod'

the ipod nano is a masterpiece of elegant design.

Often, I have many songs that are.. err.. bootlegs. And I like a lot of variety. Trust me, I don't have 600 files. I have a lot more then that.. say like 2,000+.
How many songs you have is really irrelevant to how many you would rationally listen to.

How many songs you have is really irrelevant to how many you would rationally listen to.

I like having more choices then I can choose.

I like having more choices then I can choose.
My craptastic Lyra, with a old memory card, maxes out to 150MB has 81 songs at 64kbs, rarely do I hear repeats, and by the time I do, I am ready to hear the song again because I only put songs on it I like and want to listen to.

My craptastic Lyra, with a old memory card, maxes out to 150MB has 81 songs at 64kbs, rarely do I hear repeats, and by the time I do, I am ready to hear the song again because I only put songs on it I like and want to listen to.

Well I'm not you and my habits are different. I'm often hanging out with my friends and they like hearing different artists...

Get a Zen. They're cheaper and you get better battery life and performance, plus being able to replace the battery yourself. The earphones are shit, but then so are Apple's. Either way, get some nice Sony earphones.

I have the 40GB Zen Xtra. I haven't quite filled it up but I have more than enough files to be able to.

Get a Zen. They're cheaper and you get better battery life and performance, plus being able to replace the battery yourself. The earphones are shit, but then so are Apple's. Either way, get some nice Sony earphones.

Oh yes, I got some nice sony headphones.. so sweet. And wait a minute.. you can't replace the battery on an Ipod?

Oh yes, I got some nice sony headphones.. so sweet. And wait a minute.. you can't replace the battery on an Ipod?

You have to send it away after a year or so.

You have to send it away after a year or so.

That's inconvenient and ridiculous..

Umm.. the iPod does something like 80-85 DB SNR, while the Zen does anywhere from 90-98 DB SNR. THat's a very noticeable difference.

Maybe, but I've never used a Zen, so I was comparing iPods to CD players (which I have used), and I can say that there's little difference.

have you looked at newegg.com you can find some nice deals on great 20 gig mp3 players i found one for $179 us it got a good enough rating but make sure to do a check on all the stats first

That's inconvenient and ridiculous..
Actually, I have an orginal ipod, the one with the moveable wheel. And even though I hardly use it anymore, up until now after heavy use, the battery can still hold up an 10 hour charge. And you CAN replace the battery yourself. It just takes a bit of thought, as the ipod isnt held together by screws. It's held together by these little plastic bits you have to pry out with a screw driver. Its actually easy.

Also, ipods are very very durable, on G4 tech TV, they threw a 20gig out the side of a car at 60MPH, it was beat up but still worked perfectly.

Likewise Brads Zen Touch fell off his computer tower, and now you can hear the hard drive grind. And it takes forever to load songs. Though he also put a DENT in the back, and it still works.

But I'd say go with the ipod, They're a bit more money, but they're cooler.

cooler means nothin sorry but i woud have to advize against apple on any products why spend so much money on something when there is a comparebla product cheeper and has more functionality or atleast suport from multiple companies ipod can only get music off of i toons mp3 player get from 100's of different sites. plus some sites offer monthly plans so you just need to pay a one month subscription and get all the music you want. with ipod you would have to pay for each song it will get realy expensive real quick.

Actually, I have an orginal ipod, the one with the moveable wheel. And even though I hardly use it anymore, up until now after heavy use, the battery can still hold up an 10 hour charge. And you CAN replace the battery yourself. It just takes a bit of thought, as the ipod isnt held together by screws. It's held together by these little plastic bits you have to pry out with a screw driver. Its actually easy.

All i have to do is push a latch and it will come right out for me. That's how easy it is. It takes no practice or significant thought. It is very easy to replace.


Also, ipods are very very durable, on G4 tech TV, they threw a 20gig out the side of a car at 60MPH, it was beat up but still worked perfectly.

My own Creative Zen Nomad (not the Zen Touch) is very durable, even moreso then an ipod (just look at the construction for a minute then get back to me). My friend had an ipod it fell onto the sidewalk and broke.


But I'd say go with the ipod, They're a bit more money, but they're cooler.

NAh. Zen Nomad (and Sleek version) are definitely far cooler then Ipods. And cooler? What do you mean by that? Getting ripped off by Apple for a product that is inferior in audio? Creative has been in the audio business far longer and they know what they are doing.

Well, as far as sound quality goes, I personally don't think there's any noticeable difference in quality between listening to (about 192 kbps) mp3's on an iPod (with the original headphones) and listening to AIFF's (or whatever other format the CD uses) on a CD player.
ipods do not use mp3 format they can not even understand it. they have a very special apple format. it is the other players that use mp3 and a few others except for the ipod special stupid apple.the only reason i would buy an ipod is to hack it and put unix on it yes it has been done.

Piekrom']ipods do not use mp3 format they can not even understand it. they have a very special apple format. it is the other players that use mp3 and a few others except for the ipod special stupid apple.the only reason i would buy an ipod is to hack it and put unix on it yes it has been done.

Actually Ipods do not allow usage of WMA formats I believe, and that's a huge shortcoming.

Actually Ipods do not allow usage of WMA formats I believe, and that's a huge shortcoming.

wma is anathema.

the ipod looks the best, and that is the most important factor to me.

they all play mp3s.

the ipod looks the best, and that is the most important factor to me.


WMA format is very well important.

Well I recommend looking at the Zen Sleek.. they look better.. in my opinion as a fab-5 like gay guy. ;)

If onboard memory space isn't an issue, I'd rather just get a PDA. A lot more functions and it can play MP3s too.

WMA format is very well important.

Well I recommend looking at the Zen Sleek.. they look better.. in my opinion as a fab-5 like gay guy. ;)


Ive never downloaded anything in wma and never will.

I dont think anything compares to the looks of the ipod nano, it is simply elegant.

Piekrom']ipods do not use mp3 format they can not even understand it. they have a very special apple format. it is the other players that use mp3 and a few others except for the ipod special stupid apple.the only reason i would buy an ipod is to hack it and put unix on it yes it has been done.

iPods support AAC, MP3, WAV, AIFF. The only apple-only format is an extension to AAC that works with the iTunes Music Store.

Actually Ipods do not allow usage of WMA formats I believe, and that's a huge shortcoming.
Actually, I'd say its good. WMA is a crappy format that never seems to sound as good as MP3 or Apples AAC. Also, ipods support Apple Lossless, with is as good as Flac or FLAW, its as good as you can get to CD without using a CD.

I have several MP3 players,

Orginal iPod, New Color Ipod,RIO 64mb, and a old 20 gb gateway I got for free.

I have a Samsung Yepp 1gb. It supports every sound format under the sun, it also has the best sound quality you can get on a MP3 player right now, it also supports OGG. Which makes it awsome.

But in the end, WMA=Crap, the ipod also supports regular MP3 up to 320kb

I dont think anything compares to the looks of the ipod nano, it is simply elegant.

I disagree. I definitely can recommend players that look nicer and are cheaper.

I've had a Creative Zen Micro for a while and loved it. It comes in a lot of colors, is very easy to use once used to the touchpads, and cheaper than an iPod. The sound quality is great and it plays WMA-format music. I have no complaints with it at all.

I'm sure any of the others in the Zen line would be equally good.

Actually, I'd say its good. WMA is a crappy format that never seems to sound as good as MP3 or Apples AAC. Also, ipods support Apple Lossless, with is as good as Flac or FLAW, its as good as you can get to CD without using a CD.


The Apple suffers from bad DB ratings. There are definitely things that sound a lot better. And WMA is not a crappy format. The Zen is definitely better in quality and closer to CD quality.

iPod headfones are soo crap tho

I have had a creative Zen Micro for about four months now, as a replacement for an Iriver player I was never entirely satisfied with (the ifp-899, crappy shuffle, and the oddest problems playing VBR files (not fixed by newer firmware)) that gave up the ghost after a night out where it was somewhat .. drowned.

My little micro holds enough songs that I've not had to shuffle them around yet, charges through it's usb cable (useful when I'm travelling), is very easy to swap batteries on (I have three of them, very useful for longhaul flights and long travel times :P), and, well, looks HAWT.

'I'd hit it'.

You have to send it away after a year or so.

Thats not true. I have had my ipod for over a year now and nothing has happened to it. Stop listening to the Zen media on trying to shut down Apple just because the ipod is the most popular mp3 player in the market. And thats a fact.

Anyways, Ipods have color, and they can hold pictures as well as music. The ipod is sleeker as well as lighter and more durable than the Zen. With the ipod, you can listen to audiobooks and podcasts.

Thats not true. I have had my ipod for over a year now and nothing has happened to it. Stop listening to the Zen media on trying to shut down Apple just because the ipod is the most popular mp3 player in the market. And thats a fact.

Who is the one buying into marketing campaigns here? Not me. Look at this: The Zen is simply better in sound quality and is more durable. The Ipod is not more durable nor is it more sleek. That's nonsense. The Zen may be a little bit more heavy, but it is more durable and stronger... not to mention is far better in sound quality.

Oh and there is a Zen where you can view color photos. It came out before there was an Ipod photo. Not to mention the Zen Micro comes in a variety of colors.

The biggest falsehood here is that Ipods are more durable. That's just not true.

Besides the Zen Sleek now defeats the Ipod in the arena of looks:

http://www.futurepowerpc.com/scripts/details.asp?PRDCODE=MPCR-ZENSLEEK20

And how about a media center?

http://www.futurepowerpc.com/scripts/details.asp?PRDCODE=MPCR-70PF095000
(Better then anything Ipod has)

The Apple suffers from bad DB ratings. There are definitely things that sound a lot better. And WMA is not a crappy format. The Zen is definitely better in quality and closer to CD quality.
WMA IS a crappy format, AAC and OGG are better than WMA in every way you can think of, and wait till OGG 2 hits it, it'll rock. A 50k/sec OGG can sound alot better than a 190K WMA.

If you want the best DB rating, check out RIO and Samsung.

If you want the best DB rating, check out RIO and Samsung.

You only hate WMA because it is from microsoft.

I like the Rio. Nice player.. but it is around the same DB as the Zen, which is up to 98DB (like min).

You only hate WMA because it is from microsoft.

I like the Rio. Nice player.. but it is around the same DB as the Zen, which is up to 98DB (like min).
WMA is bad, I only use it on my mp3 player because its 64k version is smaller and better than 64k mp3.

I disagree. I definitely can recommend players that look nicer and are cheaper.


Cheaper perhaps, but no one has invented an mp3 player that looks better than the ipod nano.

Who is the one buying into marketing campaigns here? Not me. Look at this: The Zen is simply better in sound quality and is more durable. The Ipod is not more durable nor is it more sleek. That's nonsense. The Zen may be a little bit more heavy, but it is more durable and stronger... not to mention is far better in sound quality.

Oh and there is a Zen where you can view color photos. It came out before there was an Ipod photo. Not to mention the Zen Micro comes in a variety of colors.

The biggest falsehood here is that Ipods are more durable. That's just not true.

And when were you a sound specialist? How do you know the Zen has better sound? Or is it that some random person told you that the Zen had better sound quality?

True, I dont have the grounds to justify that the ipod is more durable but neither do you.

However, the grounds I do have is that the Ipod is more sleek. The ipod is lighter and it looks a lot cooler. The Zen looks much more boxlike.

Marketing does matter. The ipod has 80% of all mp3 player sales so what does that tell you? Its a good product!

And when were you a sound specialist? How do you know the Zen has better sound? Or is it that some random person told you that the Zen had better sound quality?

True, I dont have the grounds to justify that the ipod is more durable but neither do you.

However, the grounds I do have is that the Ipod is more sleek. The ipod is lighter and it looks a lot cooler. The Zen looks much more boxlike.

Marketing does matter. The ipod has 80% of all mp3 player sales so what does that tell you? Its a good product!

I have helped out a band with sound equipment several times in the past. It isn't my career but a huge hobby of mine. I have also tested the Ipod, the Zen, the Iriver, and the Rio. The latter three are definitely good playerse, but I never liked the Ipod.

I am an HARDCORE audiophile. I have an upper-end Logitech Z-5500 THX (500 watts RMS) speaker system on my computer. It has monster sound cable I cut myself and the 188 watt subwoofer churns out like I have never heard of any other system.

The ipod is not more sleek nor does it look cooler. The Zen does not look box like. Again beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

Consumers need to be properly informed and that is why the Zen, Rio and others are starting to eat away at ipod's marketshare. It isn't a good product just because it controls most of the market.

And oh the nano just looks bad in my opinion.

Cheaper perhaps, but no one has invented an mp3 player that looks better than the ipod nano.
Damn bigger than I thought, oh well. Insert fanboy Security Warning.

iPod nano looks no better or worse than any other iPod with a screen and the button configuration in a circle.

You only hate WMA because it is from microsoft.

I like the Rio. Nice player.. but it is around the same DB as the Zen, which is up to 98DB (like min).
Really? Then thats why I Use Windows XP on all my computers, why I buy microsoft software whenever I can. And WHy I own 3 XBOXs. And why all my input devices are from microsoft. One of my famliy memebers even WORKS for microsoft, and he admits WMA is crap.
OGG is better than WMA in every way possible, so is AAC, even MP3 is better. The only advantage to WMA, is that it seems to work better for internet radio.

The older Samsung Yepp 1gig had a 96db performance, the newer sliver model has a 98 Performance, so it matches in that.

However, it also depends on the headphones, Try on some Shure Tru Bass Headphones, ( Only 155 USD ).

Also, your forgetting about the ipods amazing interface and control device.

The only advantage to WMA, is that it seems to work better for internet radio.

I have some things in WMA.


However, it also depends on the headphones, Try on some Shure Tru Bass Headphones, ( Only 155 USD ).

I have some Sony headphones. I personally like all of Sony's headphones. I can't afford $155 headphones. I paid $20 for mine. I need the ones that are like ear pieces because my hair is spiked up.

Also, your forgetting about the ipods amazing interface and control device.

Though I do agree with you to an extent, I like the Zen's interface and control device more.

ipod only does aac and a few non main streem. if it did mp3 you would be able to use wallmart music napster and rapsydy on the ipod but no you can not. they offer nice monthly subscriptions with unlimited downloading so yea not to smart to get an ipod unless you want to spend severall thousand dollers to fill it up. when you could us anouther guy at a cheeper price pay ten dollers and fill it up with the same amount of music and posibaly get a better sound quality so yea dump apple in like 5 seconds do not even give it a second thought

I own a Zen of some variety. I can't remember which one, because it was a gift. I like it quite a bit. I have 30 Gigs of space, and apparently my parents payed a significant sum less than for an iPod. I greatly prefer the Zen's layout and sound quality over friend's iPods.

But most of all, why pay more money for equal or less quality? Its the whole iProduct thing: "Steve Jobs could take a shit in a little white box and Mac users would still pay 500 dollars for it."

But most of all, why pay more money for equal or less quality? Its the whole iProduct thing: "Steve Jobs could take a shit in a little white box and Mac users would still pay 500 dollars for it."

People do it all the time with Apple computers. Fortunately most people understand this with computers. Don't know why they don't understand with the Ipod yet... hopfully that'll change.

what happened to the person who originaly posted this i think we kind of scared her off with our apple (religeous fanatics) vs. everybody else.

WMA is bad, I only use it on my mp3 player because its 64k version is smaller and better than 64k mp3.

Wah? I prefer to 64K WMA to 128K MP3s. Smaller too.

Piekrom']ipod only does aac and a few non main streem. if it did mp3 you would be able to use wallmart music napster and rapsydy on the ipod but no you can not. they offer nice monthly subscriptions with unlimited downloading so yea not to smart to get an ipod unless you want to spend severall thousand dollers to fill it up. when you could us anouther guy at a cheeper price pay ten dollers and fill it up with the same amount of music and posibaly get a better sound quality so yea dump apple in like 5 seconds do not even give it a second thought
That is one of the most common misconpections with the ipod. You can put ANY, AAC,,MP3,AIFF,.WAV,Apple Lossless file on an ipod. MOST music stores protect they;'re songs weather they're in MP3 format or not, most players list what stores they are compatible with.

Also itunes will convert your WMA songs to AAC or MP3 files, or even apple lossless if you wish.

I've got Creative MuTuMo FM 256Mb and it's not exactly the best around, but nice and small. Survived a few accidents too. When the thing dies, I can still use the USB bit for moving files around.

I'd get a Zen if i had the choice.

Original owner of Sound Blaster 64 PCI sound card ...

I've got Creative MuTuMo FM 256Mb and it's not exactly the best around, but nice and small. Survived a few accidents too. When the thing dies, I can still use the USB bit for moving files around.

I'd get a Zen if i had the choice.

Original owner of Sound Blaster 64 PCI sound card ...
PCI? Must be pretty new then, I've got a 16 Bit ISA Sound Blaster laying around somwhere.

PCI? Must be pretty new then, I've got a 16 Bit ISA Sound Blaster laying around somwhere.

Had one of those too - or two. Now using the crappy AC97 chipset on my new motherboard - want an Autigy!

Or you can get an iPod shuffle, who needs more than 1 gigabyte of songs at once?Get an Ipod or a Sony...they are slightly pricier but they are Quality names....

PS don't buy the Shuttle...there is no Menu window.

Maybe an iPod Nano? 4Gb I think and smaller than the iPod mini.
Get some get iAdvice here :D

Piekrom']what happened to the person who originaly posted this i think we kind of scared her off with our apple (religeous fanatics) vs. everybody else.
I'm a guy, and I'm in a different time zone, I just got back from school.

I've been checking on pricerunner, kelkoo and some other price comapring sites, and for the money I have these are the ones I can buy and I am interested in (more or less):

RIO Carbon 5GB Pearl 1699 SEK
Creative Zen Micro 5GB 1729 SEK
Apple IPOD mini 4GB 1876 SEK
Creative Zen Touch 20GB 1980 SEK
Creative Zen Micro 6GB 1992 SEK
Apple IPOD mini 6GB 2215 SEK
iriver H10 5GB 2255 SEK
iriver U10 2GB 2285 SEK
Creative Jukebox Zen 20GB 2295 SEK
Creative Zen Sleek 20GB/Silver 2486 SEK
RIO Karma 20GB 2495 SEK
Creative Zen Touch 40GB 2549 SEK
APPLE iPod Nano 4GB 2590 SEK
Creative Jukebox Zen Xtra 30GB 2645 SEK


I can go no higher than the Creative Jukebox Zen Xtra 30GB, I'd have 200 SEK after buying that one...

Also, as you can see, the iRivers and iPods are alot more expensive than the zens.

I'm a guy, and I'm in a different time zone, I just got back from school.

I've been checking on pricerunner, kelkoo and some other price comapring sites, and for the money I have these are the ones I can buy and I am interested in (more or less):

RIO Carbon 5GB Pearl 1699 SEK
Creative Zen Micro 5GB 1729 SEK
Apple IPOD mini 4GB 1876 SEK
Creative Zen Touch 20GB 1980 SEK
Creative Zen Micro 6GB 1992 SEK
Apple IPOD mini 6GB 2215 SEK
iriver H10 5GB 2255 SEK
iriver U10 2GB 2285 SEK
Creative Jukebox Zen 20GB 2295 SEK
Creative Zen Sleek 20GB/Silver 2486 SEK
RIO Karma 20GB 2495 SEK
Creative Zen Touch 40GB 2549 SEK
APPLE iPod Nano 4GB 2590 SEK
Creative Jukebox Zen Xtra 30GB 2645 SEK


I can go no higher than the Creative Jukebox Zen Xtra 30GB, I'd have 200 SEK after buying that one...

Also, as you can see, the iRivers and iPods are alot more expensive than the zens.

Yes, but both iPods and iRivers are just better players.

Maybe so, but I could still get 40 gb for less money than 4 gb if I bought Zen instead of iPod.

I used to be an iPod user. Back in the days when I wasn't clued-up on what was good and bad in the world of the MP3 player, I went with what people told me -- iPods are cool, go get one! After using a portable cassette player for most of my adult life I was understandably enthralled by the improved sound quality, but unfortunately I later tried a Creative product and because substantially disappointed in the iPod. When its battery finally died and Apple tried to charge me an extortionate amount of money to get it replaced, I left the Apple camp and bought a Creative Zen Micro, a few months ago in fact. I haven't looked back.

The full-size Creative Zen has a 24-hour battery life, which is superior to the iPod, and has technically superior sound quality. This is the device I tried which caused me to lose faith in the Apple product -- sound quality is higher, noticeably so if you have particularly sensitive hearing. It also takes more formats than an iPod, and has far more functionality. Finally, you get just as much storage space as any iPod, only for a lower price. I don't own one of these so I can't give an opinion on its long-term reliability, though I don't really hear anything of significant note other than common problems (computers freezing was a common problem, but it was easily solved with a firmware update though, apparently).

The Creative Zen Micro is my baby. Conceived in heaven itself, it has the looks, technical functionality, quality, and the price to kick to kick iPod Minis out of the window. Its battery life may seem short at first, standing at an unimpressive 12 hours, but if you purchase a second battery (at only £20-odd a pop, the total cost of the device and the battery is still lower than an equivalent iPod Mini) you can double this to a whopping 24 hours. Just leave the depleted battery on charge overnight and switch to the fresh one every day, and you will never run out of juice. Its sound quality is superior to the iPod, it has equal storage space to the iPod Mini, more functionality than either and, in my opinion, looks a lot better -- and comes in every colour you could imagine, though some are a little bright for my taste. The software's a little crappy, but you're not forced to use it. The interface takes some getting used to, but once you do you may find it easier to use, as I did.

With an unnecessarily elevated price, less versatility, lower sound quality, and a poor battery solution, iPods have only two selling points remaining -- their looks and their status. And the former is subjective.

Marketing does matter. The ipod has 80% of all mp3 player sales so what does that tell you? Its a good product!

McDonalds is probably the largest chain of 'restaurants' on the planet, owning most of the market for their particular business. Yet, the trash McDonalds piles onto its consumers can barely qualify as food, and given some of the authentic stories you can read online I'm surprised they manage to pass H&S laws.

Microsoft Windows is used by roughly 90% of the planet's computers, and has started to filter through onto mobile telephones, PDAs and the like also. But it's far from being the 'best'. It will crash more than a drunken driver, has absolutely disgusting security measures and allows itself to become vulnerable to nearly every virus on the planet -- not just down to the fact that it's most popular and therefore more heavily targeted, either. On top of this, it is overpriced.

Intel processors have a stranglehold on the mainstream computer market. Nearly every computer has one. I'm willing to bet most people here have one. All the non-Mac computers at work have one. And they are good for business-related tasks. Things that your average home user won't need. AMD has been the educated choice for gamers in particular for a long time now, as well as being cheaper. They simply perform better.

You said it yourself -- marketing is everything. When was the last time you saw an advertisement for an AMD processor? A lot of people don't even know what they are! Would you say with some degree of confidence that you see far more adverts for McDonalds than you do for Burger King? I know I can. I wouldn't eat there though. Windows gets far more advertisement than Macintosh or Linux, added to the fact that they've essentially bought the market and then closed it off due to compatibility issues. The fact that these products dominate the market is entirely down to the fact that they are marketed well, and nothing more. And how often do you see an advertisement for a Creative Zen compared to an Apple iPod? I've never seen an advert for the former, and didn't even know what they were until I saw one in the flesh (or, plastic).

If you're wondering how they put 4 to 40Gb in those things, Toshiba have produced really small HDDs - 1.8" and 0.85".

I've got a Creative Jukebox Zen Xtra 30GB, it's fallen out of my pocket and slammed into the road at 40km/h without me noticing, after being dragged 15 meters the only damage is a few scratches on the case and screen.

My brother's had his 20GB iPod replaced once since he got it.

I'd say go with the Zen, it's the best deal. Although if you wear super tight pants it might be a bit bulky.

Zen > iPod. :p

has anyone looked at archos they seem to be the cheepest players per bite but does anyone have a quality rating on ther on new egg it gets 4 stars

oh only get an ipod if you want to be a modaholic it is the only player so far that one can turn into a unix bootable drive. the archos that i am seeing has a big screen small thin 20 gigs and archos are from geminie

Well Ipods are good, but your best bet is to get a harddrvie way more storage about the same size as an ipod and you can hold way more on it!

Bush's IPOD is loaded with propaganda and naked gay pictures he took with lance armstr0ong. he loves jacking off it him.

Caribel, what does that have to do with anything? Please don't spam.

Caribel, what does that have to do with anything? Please don't spam.

It has to do with the leader of the worst country ever!

Piekrom']has anyone looked at archos they seem to be the cheepest players per bite but does anyone have a quality rating on ther on new egg it gets 4 stars
Archos has never been good until very very recently, I wouldnt trust them.

As for the user, Go ipod, its sexy and sleek, and has the click wheel.

And it is well-known to be reliable. It is also well-known to be pricy. The Zen Touch 20gb costs 800 (!) SEK less than the iPod 20 gb, which is more expensive than the Zen Touch 40 gb...

I used to be an iPod user. Back in the days when I wasn't clued-up on what was good and bad in the world of the MP3 player, I went with what people told me -- iPods are cool, go get one! After using a portable cassette player for most of my adult life I was understandably enthralled by the improved sound quality, but unfortunately I later tried a Creative product and because substantially disappointed in the iPod. When its battery finally died and Apple tried to charge me an extortionate amount of money to get it replaced, I left the Apple camp and bought a Creative Zen Micro, a few months ago in fact. I haven't looked back.

:) I had a full sized Zen for a bit, and I have to admit I found the interface a little bit frustrating. Jumpy is the best word I think to describe it. Probably not a big deal for most people, but it bugged me.

I got my first iPod about 24 hours ago, and so far I'm liking it. I can't really tell any difference in the sound quality, but I've got a really bad ear when it comes to that. :-P

Yeah me too, that's why I'm asking people this question :p. That and because I need to be sure about what I do with my money...

as i have been looking i would say get the 40 gig creative's zen xtra at 40 gigs only 208 bucks plus an extra ten to fill it up defenitly beter then listening to the religious apple fanatics.

Yeah me too, that's why I'm asking people this question :p. That and because I need to be sure about what I do with my money...

I'd suggest seeing if you can find a place to play with the players before buying. Just get a look at the interface and how it responds to what you want it to do. No matter which one you choose, it'll be a waste of money if using it frustrates you to the point where you leave it at home.

Piekrom']ipod only does aac and a few non main streem. if it did mp3 you would be able to use wallmart music napster and rapsydy on the ipod but no you can not. they offer nice monthly subscriptions with unlimited downloading so yea not to smart to get an ipod unless you want to spend severall thousand dollers to fill it up. when you could us anouther guy at a cheeper price pay ten dollers and fill it up with the same amount of music and posibaly get a better sound quality so yea dump apple in like 5 seconds do not even give it a second thought

From, "http://www.apple.com/ipodnano/specs.html " : AAC (16 to 320 Kbps), Protected AAC (from iTunes Music Store), MP3 (16 to 320 Kbps),MP3 VBR , Audible (formats 2, 3 and 4), Apple Lossless, WAV, AIFF

The reason why Napster and the like don't work with the iPod is because they use a WMA format, not pure mp3. The DRM scheme they use is not compatable with the iPod. Both are propiatary formats, the difference is that Apple doesn't license their "Fair Play" mechanism to other MP3 player manufacturers.

I'd suggest seeing if you can find a place to play with the players before buying. Just get a look at the interface and how it responds to what you want it to do. No matter which one you choose, it'll be a waste of money if using it frustrates you to the point where you leave it at home.
Yeah, the only problem is all the players are a couple of hundred SEK more expensive in stores, and there's nowhere close by where I can do that. I hate living here :headbang:

ske is the curecy of which country

sweden

Yes, but both iPods and iRivers are just better players.

How so? I already proved why the Zen is actually the better, both construction and sound quality wise. And many people actually agree with me. The interface is real easy to use, and the Ipod well.. is overpriced junk.

Right now, I'm thinking of buying the Creative Jukebox Zen Xtra 30GB. Expensive, but I haven't read a single review which have had any major flaws to point out (except for persons, and I don't really trust those kinds of things, especially when they can't spell properly), and it seems great.

Let's see:
iPod Mini 4gb= 475 SEK/gb
Jukebox 30 gb= 86 SEK/gb
iPod 20gb= 135 SEK/gb
iRiver h10 5gb= 435 SEK/gb

I was considering the iRiver, it seems very good, but at that price, I don't know.

Right now, I'm thinking of buying the Creative Jukebox Zen Xtra 30GB. Expensive, but I haven't read a single review which have had any major flaws to point out (except for persons, and I don't really trust those kinds of things, especially when they can't spell properly), and it seems great.


I bought that one first but then realised that the 40GB model has a bigger screen and wasn't that much more expensive (30GB was £115, 40GB was £130) so I sold it and bought the 40GB. At the time the 40GB iPod was around £200. I'd suggest the 40GB Zen if you have the money and can fill it up.

How so? I already proved why the Zen is actually the better, both construction and sound quality wise. And many people actually agree with me. The interface is real easy to use, and the Ipod well.. is overpriced junk.
you can throw an ipod out of a car at 60MPH, it’s probably durable and not shit. Compare the Brushed Aluminum with a steel plate behind it (Plastic on front) and has a mini steel ' frame ' (just Steel Square) to the Zen Touches all plastic build and body. Which a small drop messed up the hard drive, I will give it the props though, as my friends brad’s Zen touch (20gb) has a HUGE dent in the back of it, and it still works.

The Zen interface is OK, but it cant compare to the simplciy of the ipod.

And that stupid touch pad is annoying as hell.

data transfer , unchanged mp3s(ipod converts to apple code) , amfm radio
just luv my zen
so zen
ps what brand of sound card is a must have?
Creative 5.1 !!!!
is zen is good

I've got a i-river, have had since June, and so far no problems with it. It was cheaper than the same sized ipod and zen as well, which was a bonus. Great sound (good Bass, surround sound, graphic equaliser).
Ear phones are shit though. Really uncomfortable. I went out and bought a pair of Panasonic ones with removable rubber plugs and they're bloody great. But then, I think nearly all these products have shit earphones.
Other than that, I'd recommend it.

I bought that one first but then realised that the 40GB model has a bigger screen and wasn't that much more expensive (30GB was £115, 40GB was £130) so I sold it and bought the 40GB. At the time the 40GB iPod was around £200. I'd suggest the 40GB Zen if you have the money and can fill it up.
I wanted that one, but I can't find it in a swedish store by the 'net, only the 30gb and the 60gb models, and I don't think I'll need 60gb. And it costs 3741 SEK, well above what I'm ready to pay (I've got limited income, can't just shop away).

I have the Nomad Jukebox Zen and love it. It has excellent sound quality, can hold a lot of songs, takes .mp3, .wav, and .wma formats, has a very long battery life, and it has different "environments" to emulate the way sound carries or reflects or just sounds in different real-life environments and other similar settings so you can make the music sound however you like it.
It it is certainly bulkier than the iPod, but I'm willing to guess it can take more abuse. Mine's taken quite the beating and it still plays.
I'm quite happy with and have no regrets at all in suggesting it.

Get the iPod nano.
Or take a look at my sig...
I've got a Creative Zen 40GB. Cost me £150 (from eBay), sound quality's fantastic. Recommend the little bugger to anyone.

Ok, these are the ones I've rounded it down to:

Creative Zen Xtra 30Gb
iriver H320 20GB
CREATIVE MP3-Spelare Zen Touch 40 Gb
Apple iPod Nano 4Gb
iPod 20gb


From now on, a suggestion on any of these is what I'm mostly looking for, but as always, any guidance is welcome.

Bump

Ok, these are the ones I've rounded it down to:

Creative Zen Xtra 30Gb
iriver H320 20GB
CREATIVE MP3-Spelare Zen Touch 40 Gb
Apple iPod Nano 4Gb
iPod 20gb


From now on, a suggestion on any of these is what I'm mostly looking for, but as always, any guidance is welcome.
If you are interestd in a smaller capacity one (4/5gb etc, and from the Nano it looks like you are), then there's the 5GB iriver H10.

Oh, and I think the H320 can play video.

I've mainly just been checking those that are more or less interesting, I don't have any real use of 30 gb yet. I just want the best I can afford, and I want it to be at least 5 gb, though preferably more. You never know when it might come in handy...

I've mainly just been checking those that are more or less interesting, I don't have any real use of 30 gb yet. I just want the best I can afford, and I want it to be at least 5 gb, though preferably more. You never know when it might come in handy...
It's the 'yet' that matters...18 months ago, I bought a 4GB Creative Zen, thinking it would be enough. A year later, I bought a 40GB Creative Zen, and that'll probably overflow soon enough. People wonder why you'd want such a large capacity player, it's because I can put all my music on there, then listen to whatever suits my mood, rather than only having a slightly limited selection. If you want more than 5, but think 30 is too much, I'd advise around 20, as it gives you a substantial buffer before you need to upgrade.

Everyone I know who had an i-Pod admit they could choose something else giving another chance.

It's the 'yet' that matters...18 months ago, I bought a 4GB Creative Zen, thinking it would be enough. A year later, I bought a 40GB Creative Zen, and that'll probably overflow soon enough. People wonder why you'd want such a large capacity player, it's because I can put all my music on there, then listen to whatever suits my mood, rather than only having a slightly limited selection. If you want more than 5, but think 30 is too much, I'd advise around 20, as it gives you a substantial buffer before you need to upgrade.
Yes, it is the 'yet' that troubles me as well. That and that when I'm going to pay so much money (for me), I might as well get the best I can. I wanted one with fairly large storage, long batterydrive and good sound that didn't cost me a fortune. The Zen Touch has had a few bad reviews by pro's, but by regular users it mostly get high scores.
I'm still thinking mainly about the Jukebox Xtra, but I wanted some more to back it up.

ipods are overrated, theyre good, but not that good

i have had a 4 gig mini for a while, and it wasnt wat i was expecting

I've heard that the Rio Karma is the only mp3 player that can play albums gapless, which is great when tracks lead into one another. The Zen has a slight gap after each track although there are rumours that they're working on a firmware update with a gapless feature.

I've heard the iPod adds a 2 second gap after each track. Is this true?

I've heard that the Rio Karma is the only mp3 player that can play albums gapless, which is great when tracks lead into one another. The Zen has a slight gap after each track although there are rumours that they're working on a firmware update with a gapless feature.

I've heard the iPod adds a 2 second gap after each track. Is this true?

It's not 2 seconds with the model I have. Maybe it was with the early models? Playing around with my iPod (to find tracks where I can notice it), it's just a slight gap. It's not noticable for the music I listen too, but I can see how it would be annoying for something like classical music.

I didn't notice with my Zen either, and I don't have it any more, so I really can't compare.

Yeah, not much help, I know.

It's not 2 seconds with the model I have.

Which model is that?

I've heard the iPod adds a 2 second gap after each track. Is this true?
Whoa, that's a lot. Talk about disturbing... Though as someone else said, it might be older iPods, or something else, I don't think iPod could've stayed as huge if it had that flaw.

you can throw an ipod out of a car at 60MPH, it’s probably durable and not shit. Compare the Brushed Aluminum with a steel plate behind it (Plastic on front) and has a mini steel ' frame ' (just Steel Square) to the Zen Touches all plastic build and body. Which a small drop messed up the hard drive, I will give it the props though, as my friends brad’s Zen touch (20gb) has a HUGE dent in the back of it, and it still works.

The Zen interface is OK, but it cant compare to the simplciy of the ipod.

And that stupid touch pad is annoying as hell.

Man what a pile of nonsense. You really don't get it do you? The Zen isn't all plastic. The Ipod rather is all plastic. I don't own a Zen Touch by the way. I own a Zen Nomad. Can you get your models right? The Zen Nomad Xtra was made for the abuse. It is super durable. The Ipod is a piece of junk. Its interface is junk. I'm not talking about the Zen Touch.. so can you get off your high horse for a minute or are you going to continue recommending an overpriced ipod?

You can throw my Zen Nomad out of a car too, and it won't break.

That's the one I'm currently considering (and there aren't that many others).

Btw, I'm not intending on throwing it out of a car window ;)

Whoa, that's a lot. Talk about disturbing... Though as someone else said, it might be older iPods, or something else, I don't think iPod could've stayed as huge if it had that flaw.

Apple likes to think it owns the mp3 player market. They don't actually care about putting out a good product.

http://www.pretentiousname.com/mp3players/

Apple likes to think it owns the mp3 player market. They don't actually care about putting out a good product.

http://www.pretentiousname.com/mp3players/

My Creative doesn't have gaps like that. I heard the Ipod gaps.. that's just awful.

I've never heard mine skip, and theres even an option to meld songs together if you want to.

Apple likes to think it owns the mp3 player market. They don't actually care about putting out a good product.

http://www.pretentiousname.com/mp3players/
Still, with a 2 sec gap, they wouldn't get as good reviews either.

Still, with a 2 sec gap, they wouldn't get as good reviews either.

No or little gaps with my Creative, cool! :)

Didn't expect it either... Anyway, I need to have decided within eight (8) days, so all you iPoders, speak up! And the rest of you as well.

i think you can asum all of us others are anti ipod i voted other and i say creative 40 g

First, Zen is from Creative.

Second, the 40 gb is more gb/sek but many reviews claim that the sound, features, controls etc. are lacking. Otherwise I would've picked that one as my fav.

If you have a Mac and love it or if you're easily influenced by looks and advertising, get an iPod

If you are vaguely technically minded with a PC, get an iRiver

If you can't decide either way, get a Creative Zen.


Simple :p


I'm getting myself an iPod because i have both Mac and PC, like the advertising and can't be bothered to go through the hassle of finding a 20GB iRiver from overseas.

I've heard that the Rio Karma is the only mp3 player that can play albums gapless, which is great when tracks lead into one another. The Zen has a slight gap after each track although there are rumours that they're working on a firmware update with a gapless feature.

I've heard the iPod adds a 2 second gap after each track. Is this true?
Give or take. I clocked the gap at around 3.7 seconds, but that's with my usual rather high bit-rate songs...

And the next track kicked over >.1 seconds. Joy.

If you have a Mac and love it or if you're easily influenced by looks and advertising, get an iPod

If you are vaguely technically minded with a PC, get an iRiver

If you can't decide either way, get a Creative Zen.


Simple :p


I'm getting myself an iPod because i have both Mac and PC, like the advertising and can't be bothered to go through the hassle of finding a 20GB iRiver from overseas.
:D
Problem is, iRivers are so expensive, though better than iPod (I think), while Zen is cheap, but not as good as iRivers or iPods on many things (I've heard). That's the problem: Are iRivers worth the cost, are Zen good for the price or does iPod beat 'em cause it's in the middle?

:D
Problem is, iRivers are so expensive, though better than iPod (I think), while Zen is cheap, but not as good as iRivers or iPods on many things (I've heard). That's the problem: Are iRivers worth the cost, are Zen good for the price or does iPod beat 'em cause it's in the middle?

iPods only have colour screens because the iRiver did it first. iRivers have FM radios, iPods do not. iRivers supposedly have superior sound quality, though I haven't heard either to judge.

If you're completely stuck, go with the iPod, as its simple. If you dont want to have an iPod, get the Zen. I'd only get the iRiver after testing it out.

Try before you buy, hehe, which doesnt quite work if you're buying online, though.

if you want simple just jump straight to zen they both have realativly simple interfaces.

bump

bump

When are you going to make your decision?

acording to a few forums i've seen the Ipod's battery goes dead and is un-rechargable within 18months, and its irreplaceable, so you have to buy a completely new Ipod

-CFH

When are you going to make your decision?
The very latest, friday. I need help transferring the money, and my parents leave saturday, so... But I'll try to decide before that, so when I've gotten my money (which should be sometime next week) I guess.

:D
Problem is, iRivers are so expensive, though better than iPod (I think), while Zen is cheap, but not as good as iRivers or iPods on many things (I've heard). That's the problem: Are iRivers worth the cost, are Zen good for the price or does iPod beat 'em cause it's in the middle?

I'd like to know what the Ipod is better then the Zen on. I'd like to hear it now. The Zen is cheaper per gigabyte... that means each gigabyte of space on the Zen costs far less then the Ipod. The Zen is more durable then the Ipod. The Zen has better sound ratings (DB SNR) then the Ipod.. in fact far better. Even the provided headphones included with the Zen produce nice sounds.. unfortunately they didn't fit in my ears. In fact, the Zen practically matches the Iriver in just about everything.

The Ipod.. well in my opinion is totally overpriced and overrated. When the consumers start to concern themselves with the cold hard facts.. like sound quality, maybe Apple will start losing more and more market share.

And there are photo Zens too..

http://www.creative.com/products/product.asp?category=213&subcategory=214&product=14107

acording to a few forums i've seen the Ipod's battery goes dead and is un-rechargable within 18months, and its irreplaceable, so you have to buy a completely new Ipod

-CFH

Apple do a battery replacement service now, thanks to this site: http://www.ipodsdirtysecret.com/

I'd like to know what the Ipod is better then the Zen on. I'd like to hear it now. The Zen is cheaper per gigabyte... that means each gigabyte of space on the Zen costs far less then the Ipod. The Zen is more durable then the Ipod. The Zen has better sound ratings (DB SNR) then the Ipod.. in fact far better. Even the provided headphones included with the Zen produce nice sounds.. unfortunately they didn't fit in my ears. In fact, the Zen practically matches the Iriver in just about everything.

The Ipod.. well in my opinion is totally overpriced and overrated. When the consumers start to concern themselves with the cold hard facts.. like sound quality, maybe Apple will start losing more and more market share.

And there are photo Zens too..

http://www.creative.com/products/product.asp?category=213&subcategory=214&product=14107
As far as I know, iPods features are better and more user-friendly. That's pretty much it, I guess. Others have claimed that the sound is better, but I on't really believe that, and if it was, the difference would probably be too small to notice. I included the iPod because almost 50% have voted on it, and a lot of people have been arguing pro-iPod.

As far as I know, iPods features are better and more user-friendly. That's pretty much it, I guess. Others have claimed that the sound is better, but I on't really believe that, and if it was, the difference would probably be too small to notice. I included the iPod because almost 50% have voted on it, and a lot of people have been arguing pro-iPod.

Those who claim the Ipods sound better are not informed properly. The Ipod has a 80DB-85DB rating, while the Zen has a 96DB-98DB rating). It is actually the Creative that sounds better then the Ipod. And honestly, I see more features on my Zen.. including environmental audio. And the interface is just fine.

Those who claim the Ipods sound better are not informed properly. The Ipod has a 80DB-85DB rating, while the Zen has a 96DB-98DB rating). It is actually the Creative that sounds better then the Ipod. And honestly, I see more features on my Zen.. including environmental audio. And the interface is just fine.
Quite frankly, it looks as if the UI is horrid (the contrast looks bad, and the up-down touch pad? Huh? I can just see how that creates problems).


It also looks ugly as sin compared to the sleek white and silver ipods.


Oh, and most people won't notice the sound quality difference. I have fairly decent (Shure e2cs) headphones and I can't tell the diference between CD quality (.wav from the CD) and lossless formatting on my iPod. Besides, any difference in the hardware is most likely lost in the conversion to mp3, which destroys the sound quality anyway.

There are other Zen than the Touch, you know. And I mean honestly, what does looks matter? It's going to be in my pocket most of the time, I don't want to pay a couple of hundred sek extra just 'cause it looks better.

There are other Zen than the Touch, you know. And I mean honestly, what does looks matter? It's going to be in my pocket most of the time, I don't want to pay a couple of hundred sek extra just 'cause it looks better.
It's not just looks, it's how the item is designed. The zen face screams "clutter". There is a reason why the iPod is so popular, and why it receives such great reviews.

Quite frankly, it looks as if the UI is horrid (the contrast looks bad, and the up-down touch pad? Huh? I can just see how that creates problems).


It also looks ugly as sin compared to the sleek white and silver ipods.

Nonsense. The constrast is great and the interface is great on the Creative Nomad Xtra. Again we are not talking about the previous generation Touch. Also check out the Creative Zen Sleek. Creative is mostly top of the line hardware without the fancy looks.. something I usually go for. It beats out Apple in sound quality.

Also Apple got royally screwed by Creative in something else.. that is likely to drive down Apple's marketshare in the next year.

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/sv/20050830/tc_siliconvalley/_www12515915

"Creative Technology today said it has been awarded a U.S. patent covering the way it organizes music on portable media players, an approach that it says is used on competing devices such as the market-leading Apple iPod and iPod mini."

"He said Creative shipped its Nomad Jukebox MP3 player in November 2000, fully 12 months before Apple introduced the iPod in October 2001. He said Creative applied for its patent on Jan. 5, 2001, significantly earlier than Apple's application in October 2002."

It won the patent.... so therefore Creative is going to have a field day. Their market is going to shoot up, and their profits are going to go through the roof.

Microsoft originally was going to be award it until Creative spoke up. Apple therefore is totally, and utterly screwed for one reason:

Apple will have to pay Creative for every MP3 player they sell.

Sorry, but Apple is going down.

Oh, and most people won't notice the sound quality difference. I have fairly decent (Shure e2cs) headphones and I can't tell the diference between CD quality (.wav from the CD) and lossless formatting on my iPod. Besides, any difference in the hardware is most likely lost in the conversion to mp3, which destroys the sound quality anyway.

The ipod sucks with sound quality when it comes to comparsion, and it most certainly is comparable. The difference is sounding slightly fuzzy with no distortion at all (Zen Xtra). 15DB means quite a bit. The Ipod only has 80DB-85DB.. while the Zen Xtra has 96-98DB.

It's not just looks, it's how the item is designed. The zen face screams "clutter". There is a reason why the iPod is so popular, and why it receives such great reviews.

You're all talk and no evidence. Well Apple Fanboys don't ever give any. They have this cult formed around it. The Zen Nomad face does not scream clutter... do you even own one? The Ipod's reviews as far as I've seen are only average.

Those who claim the Ipods sound better are not informed properly. The Ipod has a 80DB-85DB rating, while the Zen has a 96DB-98DB rating). It is actually the Creative that sounds better then the Ipod. And honestly, I see more features on my Zen.. including environmental audio. And the interface is just fine.

Are you aware that you would need headphones that cost more than a ipod shuffle to even be able to tell the difference? Not that it would matter, as conversion process destorys the quality anyway.

Also, the zen does not support any lossless format as far as I know. But if it does, it'd be FLAC or FLAW. Which is 35mb for a minute of music.

Apple Lossless is only half that. And then Zen Cant do Apple Lossless ( duh )

Also, the control wheel on the ipod is alot better than that stupidi " jog wheel " or the pad on the Zen Touch.

All controles expect for hold are on one " button" so its very easy to one hand.

The Zen has annoying side buttons and a moveable ( on some models ) volume control.

Go ipod.

Also, as for apple being dead, They're growing on the Computer industry, the Mac Mini has been one of the best selling computers this year.

And they're power mac G5s easliy Match up to even the Fastest PCs.

Are you aware that you would need headphones that cost more than a ipod shuffle to even be able to tell the difference? Not that it would matter, as conversion process destorys the quality anyway.

Are you aware that sony headphones don't cost that much and I can very well tell the difference with those sony headphones? Do you also know anything about DB ratings? 10DB may not sound like a lot.. but it make a huge difference even with provided headphones.

Also, the zen does not support any lossless format as far as I know. But if it does, it'd be FLAC or FLAW. Which is 35mb for a minute of music.

Not correct.


Also, the control wheel on the ipod is alot better than that stupidi " jog wheel " or the pad on the Zen Touch.

Subjective, and you are being ridiculous again. We are not talking about the Touch. You seem to be stuck on that brand.


The Zen has annoying side buttons and a moveable ( on some models ) volume control.

On some models. Remember all the newer models have improved controls. Additionally, it is easier to use in my opinion.

Go ipod.

No.

Also, as for apple being dead, They're growing on the Computer industry, the Mac Mini has been one of the best selling computers this year.

They are not growing. They are being crushed by AMD in the computer field. They are also based on crappy Intel processors now falling even further behind.

Totally wrong. The Mac Mini has not been one of the best selling. Additionally, it is a joke. Say you get the one for $499.. you still realize you have to buy the monitor, the keyboard and the mouse? You realize you get a crappy 1999-era ATI Radeon 9200 32MB graphics card? I guess not. You realize after you do the upgrades you have to pay about $800? Not so much a budget anymore.

And they're power mac G5s easliy Match up to even the Fastest PCs.

Totally utterly false. A dual G5 is defeated by a single cpu AMD Athlon 64 3000+ Socket 754 (or 939). That's pretty sad. It is defeated substantially in nearly 90% of the tests. The AMD 64 is based on the most advanced technology in the processor market. Also keep in mind that Apple is going to use INTEL CPUS for their computers.. setting them even further back.. as the Athlon 64 easily crushes those in tests.

I'm sorry, but the G5 isn't even close.

Are you aware that sony headphones don't cost that much and I can very well tell the difference with those sony headphones? Do you also know anything about DB ratings? 10DB may not sound like a lot.. but it make a huge difference even with provided headphones.



Not correct.



Subjective, and you are being ridiculous again. We are not talking about the Touch. You seem to be stuck on that brand.



On some models. Remember all the newer models have improved controls. Additionally, it is easier to use in my opinion.



No.



They are not growing. They are being crushed by AMD in the computer field. They are also based on crappy Intel processors now falling even further behind.

Totally wrong. The Mac Mini has not been one of the best selling. Additionally, it is a joke. Say you get the one for $499.. you still realize you have to buy the monitor, the keyboard and the mouse? You realize you get a crappy 1999-era ATI Radeon 9200 32MB graphics card? I guess not. You realize after you do the upgrades you have to pay about $800? Not so much a budget anymore.



Totally utterly false. A dual G5 is defeated by a single cpu AMD Athlon 64 3000+ Socket 754 (or 939). That's pretty sad. It is defeated substantially in nearly 90% of the tests. The AMD 64 is based on the most advanced technology in the processor market. Also keep in mind that Apple is going to use INTEL CPUS for their computers.. setting them even further back.. as the Athlon 64 easily crushes those in tests.

I'm sorry, but the G5 isn't even close.
I was talking about the Nomad, which as far as I know has the " jog wheel ", a useless and stupid control method, it doesnt even work half the time.

Currently, Apple is using PPC770 Processers in their top computer lines. They wont be switching until Intel replaces the Pentium 4 next year.

I beleive your referring to the Benchmarks in PC magazine a few months ago. The G5s were running OS9, not the new OSX 4, they were crippled, and not even optimized.

the Dual 2.7gzh G5 Crushed the FX 55 in every benchmark expect for the Unreal Engine.

In my experiances with AMD, They're fast. But I'd rather have Intel, better support, run cooler, better warrentys.

Also, unlike AMD, Intel makes there own chipsets, so they're more compatible, and tend to be more stable.

" One company pulls ahead of the other, the other gets pissed off and pulls ahead "

Its been happening in the computing world for 20 years now, Intel will pull ahead of intel, and vice versa, over and over again.

They are not growing. They are being crushed by AMD in the computer field. They are also based on crappy Intel processors now falling even further behind.


Actually, they are growing. According to Businessweek:
"That was enough to push Apple's share of the U.S. PC market to 4.5% in the same period, up from 3.7% in the second quarter of last year. "

http://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/sep2005/tc2005096_4576_tc210.htm

4.5% isn't much, but it's more they've had in a long long time.


Also keep in mind that Apple is going to use INTEL CPUS for their computers.. setting them even further back.. as the Athlon 64 easily crushes those in tests.


I was a little surprised that Apple didn't go with AMD. Knowing that they had to investigate it, I'm guess that either Intel has something impressive on the horizon, or that AMD couldn't guarentee them the yeilds they wanted. I'm sure they wouldn't want to get burned like they did with Motorola.

I'm talking globally as far as market share is concerned. It stands at more like 2.2%.

I was talking about the Nomad, which as far as I know has the " jog wheel ", a useless and stupid control method, it doesnt even work half the time.

It isn't useless and stupid, and it does work superbly. That's your own subjective opinion.


I beleive your referring to the Benchmarks in PC magazine a few months ago. The G5s were running OS9, not the new OSX 4, they were crippled, and not even optimized.

Same statement can be made about the AMD 64. It is underutilized because the operating system it uses is 32-bit (Windows XP). The Longhorn is not out yet.

the Dual 2.7gzh G5 Crushed the FX 55 in every benchmark expect for the Unreal Engine.


Absolutely not. You have it the other way around. Nothing beats AMD 64-bit processors at this time.

I'm actually surprised that my AMD 64 3000+ is underutilized with Windows 2000. And I'm surprised it beats dual G5s big time.

In my experiances with AMD, They're fast. But I'd rather have Intel, better support, run cooler, better warrentys.

That's all false.

The AMD actually is much cooler and has excellent warranties. The Intel P4 that are supposeably 64-bit overheat big time.

Also, unlike AMD, Intel makes there own chipsets, so they're more compatible, and tend to be more stable.

No they aren't. More compatible? what do you mean by that? That makese no sense. And no, AMD processors are more stable because they use better cores and less core units.

Also AMD has ten years worth of evidence against Intel in anti-trust lawsuits, therefore Intel is in big time trouble. AMD recently opened this lawsuit against Intel in court.

Calm down about the processors (or whatever it is in english), that's not the subject of this thread. Other than that, I like where this is going. People who know what they're talking about are actually having a discussion, not what I've encountered in other places (where the thread got spammed down with leet).

I am still leaning toward the Jukebox Zen Xtra, and the verdict from itreviews.co.uk isn't exactly negative about it:

This is an excellent, compact, capable but pricey MP3 solution with immense storage capabilities. User-friendly from top to bottom, the only notable caveat is the competitiveness of the rest of the MP3 market.

And I think it looks great (not that it really matters, but the iPods are just so...similar to one another, I like this ones looks better).

Bump for the night.

And... bump!

Just 3-4 days left, and the Zen Jukebox is still in the lead (maybe not in the polls, but still). Time for all iPod'ers to convince me Apple is better than Creative. Common, people!

My honest advice as a Zen user is that if you think the iPod looks better and the appearance matters to you then get the iPod because you probably wouldn't notice the difference in sound anyway. However, if you want more capacity get the Zen. Either way I'd recommend buying some Sony earphones because both Creative and Apple didn't spend much time on their earphones.

My honest advice as a Zen user is that if you think the iPod looks better and the appearance matters to you then get the iPod because you probably wouldn't notice the difference in sound anyway. However, if you want more capacity get the Zen. Either way I'd recommend buying some Sony earphones because both Creative and Apple didn't spend much time on their earphones.

Creative headphones are awful except I accidently destroyed my Sony ones - so back to using the Creative ones. :(

iRiver.

Best.

Headphones I got - Koss Porta Pro, very nice quality. And looks matter close to nothing, I just don't want something that looks like cr*p. In any way.

Okay, I'm getting my money today or tomorrow, so I will order it sometime soon.
Still the Zen Jukebox, though I'm not certain. Not heard anything bad about it, but heard better things about iRivers, though they're expensive. Difficult...

Okay, I'm getting my money today or tomorrow, so I will order it sometime soon.
Still the Zen Jukebox, though I'm not certain. Not heard anything bad about it, but heard better things about iRivers, though they're expensive. Difficult...
The Zen Jukebox is nice, but you can do better.

An ipod is smaller and lighter. Better UI, better control device ( the awsome click wheel ) better software support. It looks alot better, and is smaller and lighter.

Yeah, but it's half the storage of the Zen. If I'm going to have 20 gb, I'd rather go with the iRiver.

Speaking of which, I am now completely jammed between the Zen and iRiverH320. I was certain of the Zen, but now I'm not so sure...

Yeah, but it's half the storage of the Zen. If I'm going to have 20 gb, I'd rather go with the iRiver.

Speaking of which, I am now completely jammed between the Zen and iRiverH320. I was certain of the Zen, but now I'm not so sure...
True, if you dont want an ipod. I'd go for iriver, they're really amazing players, and support every format under the sun.

The 5gb " slider " is an awsome player.

I'd stay away from creative stuff if you can afford ipod or iriver.

Yeah, it's high memory for not-so-much-money, or high quality for some-more-money. It's difficult, but I think I'm leaning towards the iRiver...

Bump

Well, I think for my birthday my parents are going to get me an Ipod Nano... On my iTunes I have a little bit more than 3 gigs currently, and I don't listen to quite a bit of it. So for me, a Nano would be fine, and if you think about it, it would be pretty good for most people. I mean, instead of putting on whole albums, only put on songs you like... There's lots of little space savers you can do so you don't need 20 gigs.

And, iPods can use Mp3 format, for whoever said they can't If you just download iTunes (free and easy) and put the songs you want on there, they can go straight onto an iPod. It's true you can't use WMA (which sucks, because most of my stuff was WMA before I got iTunes) but you can convert it in iTunes and M4a which is the normal format for the iPod. Sure, the converting is kind of a hassle and takes a good amount of time, but it won't kill you.

I wouldn't know about Zen or iRiver, but from my understanding iPod durability is pretty good if you aren't a total klutz. Several of my friends have had them for years and they're fine. My one friend who broke his iPod dropped it several times, and then sat on it. (He's over 300lbs) So, I think if you're careful enough, an iPod will be fine.

And uh, the iPod does NOT have bad sound quality. Maybe you're just too picky. To me it sounds fine... But I guess if you're a total soundnut, get some crazy good headphones (but, considering you probably already have a CD player, you already have some headphones.)

Anyway, it really depends on exactly what you want. As I said, I'm getting a Nano because my 3 gigs is fine and I don't mind the sound/ I'm not the biggest klutz ever, but it really depends on your choice.

I'm sure you'd be pretty happy with whatever you got.

I've now ordered it. I got the iRiver H320, despite my old confidence in the Zen Jukebox. A little too pricy for my wallet to be honest, but that's already solved. Thank you all for your help in this matter.

Thats a great player, I'd still perfer the ipod, but thats just me.

Its a bit expensive. But I'm sure you'll love it.

My honest advice as a Zen user is that if you think the iPod looks better and the appearance matters to you then get the iPod because you probably wouldn't notice the difference in sound anyway. However, if you want more capacity get the Zen. Either way I'd recommend buying some Sony earphones because both Creative and Apple didn't spend much time on their earphones.
Ick no. Sony headphones break wayyy to easily. Either get some shures or get them from a company that has a decent warrenty. I've burned through 2 sets of sony's (that pissed me off, but both times they were under a protection plan) and two sets of e-2c's, but the shure headphones lasted longer, have a 2 year warrenty, and they're nice about replacement.

@mesa: Jesus H. Christ, don't take it so personally. Taste is subjective. I find the zen about as appealing as Barbera Bush.

However, re: soundquality, don't tell me I don't know what I'm talking about. I have a cd player that has roughly the same sound output as creative, and I can't notice the difference using a 70$ pair of earphones between the iPod and a CD.