NationStates Jolt Archive

I dont get it, ive been on this forum a lot, and I finally had to post. I dont see why No one hear likes Howard Dean. Seems the large majority hear are anti-war and anti-bush yet they trash Howard Dean. Im just wondering why, is it cause he has enough guts to admit he is anti-war, something Kerry would never have done, or maybe it was that little scream he did. Oh yeah that makes sence, vote for a insecure wuss instead of a strong Democratic candidate. Its too late for 2004 so dont dwell in the past, Im just trying to make sure the right guy gets elected in 2008. Until that happens you can all hang your heads in shame!

I dont get it, ive been on this forum a lot, and I finally had to post. I dont see why No one hear likes Howard Dean. Seems the large majority hear are anti-war and anti-bush yet they trash Howard Dean. Im just wondering why, is it cause he has enough guts to admit he is anti-war, something Kerry would never have done, or maybe it was that little scream he did. Oh yeah that makes sence, vote for a insecure wuss instead of a strong Democratic candidate. Its too late for 2004 so dont dwell in the past, Im just trying to make sure the right guy gets elected in 2008. Until that happens you can all hang your heads in shame!Not everyone hates Dean. The ones that do are just more likely to make sure you know their opinion of him. ;)

I like Howard Dean. I was hoping he'd win the democrat primaries so I'd have someone worthwhile to vote for in 2004.

By various methods, he has become alienated from the American people. A large quantity of Americans view Dean as a hot-under-the-collar hyperemotional maniac. A view that has come from a combination of Dean's actions and quotes, a media focus on them, and successful Republican exploitation of such quotes and actions. Is this true? I don't know, I don't know Dean, so I cannot say for sure, but he's lacking in several key public image departments.

I have to agree with several things "andc something or another" said about the media and republican portrayal and that just means that the Republicans were threatened by him. But another thing Deans been doing is trying to appeal to those who werent democrats this last election by going to southern and western states to try and win them over. He has also made statements saying he wants to fight for those with Confederate battle flags not against them. And for those of you who think that is rascist you better get your civil war history down.

And for those of you who think that is rascist you better get your civil war history down.That's a different debate ;)

all my liberal friends love dean...

and to be totally honest, i'm a big fan of his charisma.
he's the only BIG democrat i see with half a brain.
other than barrack obama of course

By various methods, he has become alienated from the American people. A large quantity of Americans view Dean as a hot-under-the-collar hyperemotional maniac. A view that has come from a combination of Dean's actions and quotes, a media focus on them, and successful Republican exploitation of such quotes and actions. Is this true? I don't know, I don't know Dean, so I cannot say for sure, but he's lacking in several key public image departments.

when i was a girl i actually used to play with his daughter and so i've spent time with him on many occassions. in real life he's pretty much a regular (hyperintelligent) person, who totally loves his job and knows what he thinks. very polite, good sense of humor and actually kinda quiet when he's not "on". i suspect that what happened is that his PR people decided that he needed more oomph. the image of a man from a rural state who was a GP doc for years who doesn't use political doublespeak or try to rile people up emotionally just wasnt charismatic enough for "the public" for some reason, so they had him do some flashy things which to me, knowing the guy, seemed really forced and awful, and to the media, was spun as an overexcitable maniac trying to get attention.

honestly i think that if he had acted or been allowed to act as he did as governor, which was thoughtful, deliberate, compassionate and honest, he might be president. it's a damn shame, because he's a really great guy.

I think Dean could be a bit more charismatic. The Democrats need a JFK.

I dont get it, ive been on this forum a lot, and I finally had to post. I dont see why No one hear likes Howard Dean. Seems the large majority hear are anti-war and anti-bush yet they trash Howard Dean. Im just wondering why, is it cause he has enough guts to admit he is anti-war, something Kerry would never have done, or maybe it was that little scream he did. Oh yeah that makes sence, vote for a insecure wuss instead of a strong Democratic candidate. Its too late for 2004 so dont dwell in the past, Im just trying to make sure the right guy gets elected in 2008. Until that happens you can all hang your heads in shame!

I believe I have posted at least once rhetorically asking why the use of the phrase "Yeargh!" makes you unfit for the presidency, so no, I don't have a problem with Dean. I think you are just confused by the fact that whenever a Democrat comes to prominence, the Republicans respond by making his name an epithet, and the Republicmonkeys on the blogoshpere dutifully follow suit. As Dean has come to prominence, he has thus been made synonymous with "hotheaded." Not quite as bad as Santorum becoming synonymous with messy anal play, but along the same vein.

i like dean, he appears to have principals that he's willing to defend (which in politics is something i consider depressingly rare) and he's willing to honestly listen to other people's opinions and defend his own. but that may be beaten out of him now that he's in a position of athority, who knows?

To be honest I know absolutely nothing about Dean's poilitics, but something has just always creeped me out about him. He has one of the phoniest smiles I have ever seen and he just looks fake over all. Of course this is just my opinion, I really couldn't say anything about his skills as a leader.

I don't like him. The last thing we need is another left winger or right winger in office. They both fuck it up equally as bad, and the only way things will get done is if we elect a moderate. Plus, Dean comes across as phony, especially with that smile. Not to mention he has no experience outside of running the state of Vermont, which isn't exactly a claim to leadership.

I don't like him. The last thing we need is another left winger or right winger in office. They both fuck it up equally as bad, and the only way things will get done is if we elect a moderate. Plus, Dean comes across as phony, especially with that smile. Not to mention he has no experience outside of running the state of Vermont, which isn't exactly a claim to leadership.Dean is pretty moderate. There is no real left in the US.

I had a profound statement by Howard Dean in my sig for awhile...

Still have a Dean for America sticker on my car and a Dean for America baseball cap.

The Republican party would try to give money to have Dean represent the Democrats in an election . If your goal is to have your candidate actually WIN an election , how can you choose an extreme left wing candidate ?
The US is not made up of people / voters who will accept a liberal on a national level .
I was praying that the Dems came up with a decent candidate . I did not think Bush deserved my vote for the Job he was doing...they gave me Kerry ... The only man who could possibly lose to George Bush in 2004 .
A guy who is so oily he should volunteer to act as an energy source .
He was in the military came back DISAVOWED his service threw his medals away ..disavowed the men he fought with ..called them war criminal;s and worse...then campaigned as a war " hero " type warrior god .[razz] :p
he changed his so called views then lied to your face...and on top of that looked at you like you were the idiot when he came up with a different view on his former opinion .
Now you want Howard Dean ....at this rate we will be stuck with republicans forever .

I don't like him. The last thing we need is another left winger or right winger in office. They both fuck it up equally as bad, and the only way things will get done is if we elect a moderate. Plus, Dean comes across as phony, especially with that smile. Not to mention he has no experience outside of running the state of Vermont, which isn't exactly a claim to leadership.
I thought Dean was moderate.

"Why not Howard Dean?"

Well, here's a bit of a clue: because he's a frackin' hyperactive crazy-man! That easy enough to understand? :)

I thought Dean was moderate.
Hell! YOU would!! LOL!

The Republican party would try to give money to have Dean represent the Democrats in an election . If your goal is to have your candidate actually WIN an election , how can you choose an extreme left wing candidate ?
The US is not made up of people / voters who will accept a liberal on a national level .
I was praying that the Dems came up with a decent candidate . I did not think Bush deserved my vote for the Job he was doing...they gave me Kerry ... The only man who could possibly lose to George Bush in 2004 .
A guy who is so oily he should volunteer to act as an energy source .
He was in the military came back DISAVOWED his service threw his medals away ..disavowed the men he fought with ..called them war criminal;s and worse...then campaigned as a war " hero " type warrior god .[razz] :p
he changed his so called views then lied to your face...and on top of that looked at you like you were the idiot when he came up with a different view on his former opinion .
Now you want Howard Dean ....at this rate we will be stuck with republicans forever .


Aside from the fact that people like Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity keep calling him an extreme liberal (and to be honest, by their definition, anyone with a more liberal viewpoint of government than Attila the Hun is therefore a radical leftist), what evidence do you have to show that he is an "extreme liberal"?

Maybe it's because he balanced Vermont's budget, owing to the fact that rightists today don't seem to think that deficits matter.

"Why not Howard Dean?"

Well, here's a bit of a clue: because he's a frackin' hyperactive crazy-man! That easy enough to understand? :)

Bush allows people to shout at him.

Howard Dean shouts at his people.

I rather stick with Bush. Dean is a psycho.

Howard Dean was the best candidate in the 2004 election and he was defeated by the right wing media circus. It's a shame that a man with convictions, intelligence, and who might just actually be a human being cannot win an election in the US. I voted for him. I would vote for him again.

I just wish we had more choices like him.

Hell! YOU would!! LOL!
Earth to North Carolina- Dean is a moderate.

Earth to North Carolina- Dean is a moderate.
Sure is--and so far, not a single person who has badmouthed him on this thread has come up with a single way in which he isn't a moderate. It's been all OMG!!!!!!!CRAZY!!!YEARRRRRRRRGH!

Think Dean would have had an idiot like Mike Brown in charge of FEMA or Chertoff heading up DHS? Not a fucking chance.

He couldnt win a democratic primary..wtf did that have to do with the RIGHT media ? WTF are you talking about ? If you are on the right YOU WANT HIM TO WIN ! :D

I have no evidence that he is an extreme left liberal except what I heard with my own ears when I tried to determine if he was a good guy to vote for...to me thats the opinion that counts . ;)
Since then he has been labeled that way by others . To be fair IMO its only his views on the Iraqi war the military and America's role in the world that are extreme left .

I am an independent voter . I range from conservative on foriegn policy to liberal / libertarian views on domestic issues . I am not into religion at all and resent idiots who preach shit at me . I like my pot and want it legal and think murders should be tortured before they are executed by beheading . I like to hunt and support the second ammendment and will shoot you if you attempt to take my guns away . I want no person in the US to go without affordable health care and think poverty is a national disgrace . Racist should be castrated and deported . Welfare should be worked for . No American should be homeless . So I dont fit into a party .

Howard Dean was the best candidate in the 2004 election and he was defeated by the right wing media circus. It's a shame that a man with convictions, intelligence, and who might just actually be a human being cannot win an election in the US. I voted for him. I would vote for him again.

I just wish we had more choices like him.
God help us. :headbang:

Earth to North Carolina- Dean is a moderate.
I don't give a frack WHERE that idiot falls along the political spectrum! I can just see him if he were President and there was another terrorist attack:

"OMG! OMG! OMG! T3h puhcking terrorists are teh suksorz!!!!! [ runs around in circles and screams at the nearest staffers ] Don't just do something! STAND there!" LOL!

I don't give a frack WHERE that idiot falls along the political spectrum! I can just see him if he were President and there was another terrorist attack:

"OMG! T3h puhcking terrorists are teh suksorz!!!!! [ runs around in circles and screams at the nearest staffers ] Don't just do something! STAND there!" LOL!
Yeah, cuz YOUR president was a bulwark of strength--sitting in a room of schoolchildren and then hiding on Air Force One for three days. :headbang:

Yeah, cuz YOUR president was a bulwark of strength--sitting in a room of schoolchildren and then hiding on Air Force One for three days. :headbang:
Bang your head all you like. It's obviously not going to hurt it. He was on Air Force One upon the advice of the Secret Service, you noob!

I heard that during the "Dean Scream" that the sound was turned on the crowd so that his scream sounded more out of place and unearthly? Anyone hear this before?

I am an independent voter . I range from conservative on foriegn policy to liberal / libertarian views on domestic issues . I am not into religion at all and resent idiots who preach shit at me . I like my pot and want it legal and think murders should be tortured before they are executed by beheading . I like to hunt and support the second ammendment and will shoot you if you attempt to take my guns away . I want no person in the US to go without affordable health care and think poverty is a national disgrace . Racist should be castrated and deported . Welfare should be worked for . No American should be homeless . So I dont fit into a party .
You sound like you should fit nicely into this "shock-Left" cabal inhabited by me, Drunk Commies, Deleuze and President Shrub.

Hell! YOU would!! LOL!
What, do you think I am an extremist?

Bang your head all you like. It's obviously not going to hurt it. He was on Air Force One upon the advice of the Secret Service, you noob!
Uh huh. Next you're going to tell me that Air Force One was a target, and that it took the Secret Service three days to determine that it was safe for him to crawl out of his little hole. Bush isn't man enough to lick Dean's taint, and you know it.

http://www.valuejudgment.org/archives/000441.html with crowd noise.
http://www.marriedadults.com/howarddeanscream.php without crowd noise.
Actually I just answered my own question. Here are two samples.

I heard that during the "Dean Scream" that the sound was turned on the crowd so that his scream sounded more out of place and unearthly? Anyone hear this before?
It's simpler than that--the video feed that captured the scream was hooked directly into the microphone and cleared lots of the crowd noise away. When a videotape taken from the crowd popped up (the next day online--days later on the major news), it showed that the scream was barely audible to the people in the crowd.

I was just thinking that it might be because of the little "Dean Scream" incident, or maybe it was his off color comments...
"Republicans haven't worked an honest day in their lives!"
"We don't even worry about the black vote until the week of the election."

But on another note, I'd rather have Dean than Hillary if it came down to it.
----------------
liberalism :mp5:

Not to mention he has no experience outside of running the state of Vermont, which isn't exactly a claim to leadership.

now what is that supposed to mean? do some research. it's only a giveaway blue state in national elections, it's actually quite evened out on the spectrum on the state level. currently it's far more right than left, actually. the man was governor for 11.5 years and oversaw some pretty extreme changes over that time. that's quite a feat. are any politicians from small states supposed to be penalised for where they come from?

I don't like him. The last thing we need is another left winger or right winger in office. They both fuck it up equally as bad, and the only way things will get done is if we elect a moderate. Plus, Dean comes across as phony, especially with that smile. Not to mention he has no experience outside of running the state of Vermont, which isn't exactly a claim to leadership.

So, being a Governor isn't experience enough to become President? Hmmmm...

Uh huh. Next you're going to tell me that Air Force One was a target, and that it took the Secret Service three days to determine that it was safe for him to crawl out of his little hole. Bush isn't man enough to lick Dean's taint, and you know it.
You, my friend, are definitely a slow learner. Wanna know what I really think? As stated in a couple of other threads, I think it's time we kicked out ALL of the current ( and ongoing ) cadre of politicians and amended the Constitution so that every four years there's a national nominating plebiscite; vote for any American citizen ... no restrictions; top two candidates have a run-off; winner is frackin' DRAFTED for the office ... no options ... failure to assume office means incarceration for the would-be term of office ... failure to faithfully perform the duties of the office results in incarceration for remainder of term; pay the winner on a "make whole" basis ... same pay as if he/she had still been holding whatever job or position they held before being elected. Same process for the Senate and Congress, only on a State and District level.

Now ... does that sound as if I'm a frackin' Bushite or neocon???? :p

now what is that supposed to mean? do some research. it's only a giveaway blue state in national elections, it's actually quite evened out on the spectrum on the state level. currently it's far more right than left, actually. the man was governor for 11.5 years and oversaw some pretty extreme changes over that time. that's quite a feat. are any politicians from small states supposed to be penalised for where they come from?
Hell, based on the last two presidencies, you might make the argument that coming from a small state is a good thing.

Clinton--Arkansas--small--good president.

Bush--Texas--large--not so good, shitty in fact.

Of course, this would be a facetious argument, as the size of one's state has nothing to do with the governing ability of the person in charge.

You, my friend, are definitely a slow learner. Wanna know what I really think? As stated in a couple of other threads, I think it's time we kicked out ALL of the current ( and ongoing ) cadre of politicians and amended the Constitution so that every four years there's a national nominating plebiscite; vote for any American citizen ... no restrictions; top two candidates have a run-off; winner is frackin' DRAFTED for the office ... no options ... failure to assume office means incarceration for the would-be term of office; pay the winner on a "make whole" basis ... same pay as if he/she had still been holding whatever job or position they held before being elected. Same process for the Senate and Congress, only on a State and District level.

Now ... does that sound as if I'm a frackin' Bushite or neocon???? :pYou can make all the claims you want, Eutrusca--your long term reputation here speaks for itself. Post after post after post of knee jerk agreement with the administration with one in a hundred mouthing a populist point of view. If I didn't know any better, I'd say you were Bill O'Reilly, since that's his M.O. So spare me the platitudes--you only fool the noobs here.

You, my friend, are definitely a slow learner. Wanna know what I really think? As stated in a couple of other threads, I think it's time we kicked out ALL of the current ( and ongoing ) cadre of politicians and amended the Constitution so that every four years there's a national nominating plebiscite; vote for any American citizen ... no restrictions; top two candidates have a run-off; winner is frackin' DRAFTED for the office ... no options ... failure to assume office means incarceration for the would-be term of office ... failure to faithfully perform the duties of the office results in incarceration for remainder of term; pay the winner on a "make whole" basis ... same pay as if he/she had still been holding whatever job or position they held before being elected. Same process for the Senate and Congress, only on a State and District level.
Vive la révolution!

Hell, based on the last two presidencies, you might make the argument that coming from a small state is a good thing.

Clinton--Arkansas--small--good president.

Bush--Texas--large--not so good, shitty in fact.

I notice that you accuse Bush of being all image and no substance. Do you think Clinton was any different?

Hell, based on the last two presidencies, you might make the argument that coming from a small state is a good thing.

Clinton--Arkansas--small--good president.

Bush--Texas--large--not so good, shitty in fact.



thats your opinion 51 % or more do not aggree . history will judge Bush after the results of his policy's in Iraq and his handling of the rebuilding of the Gulf coast play out . he has the potential of being judged as a visionary and a great President due to circumstances he was forced into .
Deans ability's are an unknown to the majority of voters all they can judge him on is his public personna and his record in Vermont .
THEY DID and he was found wanting . He could not win in a weak field . now he has to overcome a reputation for being an idiot or a loon . Would you trust the guy with nukes ? ;)
Its a shame Clinton cant run again .

Seems the large majority hear are anti-war and anti-bush yet they trash Howard Dean. Im just wondering why, is it cause he has enough guts to admit he is anti-war..Its the Pro-War Neo-cons...they will trash Howard Dean every time...the same way they Trash Sheehan non-stop...

Just take a look at all the Dean or Sheehan threads

You can make all the claims you want, Eutrusca--your long term reputation here speaks for itself. Post after post after post of knee jerk agreement with the administration with one in a hundred mouthing a populist point of view. If I didn't know any better, I'd say you were Bill O'Reilly, since that's his M.O. So spare me the platitudes--you only fool the noobs here.
( shrug ) Believe what you like. I couldn't care less. :)

Howard Dean was the best candidate in the 2004 election and he was defeated by the right wing media circus. It's a shame that a man with convictions, intelligence, and who might just actually be a human being cannot win an election in the US. I voted for him. I would vote for him again.

I just wish we had more choices like him.
More like squeezed out by the DNC because they thought that John Kerry, the haughty, French-looking Senator from Massachusetts, who, by the way also served in Vietnam, was more electable than Dean. There's no room for convictions and principles in the Democratic party these days. Of course, since the election, Dean has given us plenty of reasons to wonder about his sanity. So maybe he will be considered the most qualified nut-case this next election.

So, being a Governor isn't experience enough to become President? Hmmmm...

Vermont has only 608,827 people. It doesn't have anywhere near the economic strength, influence, budget demands, or immigration of larger states, so governing it doesn't convey the same degree of experience as someone from Arkansas or California, for examples.

608,827 people is a far cry from 300 million Americans.

Vermont has only 608,827 people. It doesn't have anywhere near the economic strength, influence, budget demands, or immigration of larger states, so governing it doesn't convey the same degree of experience as someone from Arkansas or California, for examples.

608,827 people is a far cry from 300 million Americans.
Arkansas only has 2.6 million people. What's the break point for population?

Arkansas only has 2.6 million people. What's the break point for population?

At least enough to have some kind of economic significance; Arkansas doesn't have many people but a large number of corporations and businesses. You need a large, diverse economy in your state to be able to have the experience to govern the United States, and Vermont doesn't have that.

why most people don't like howard dean in three words---- the dean scream; personaly i thought that he was a better option than kerry

"It's just about connecting the dots. Republicans are evil. White Christians are Republicans. So white Christians are evil. And we must know who the evil ones are that walk among us. I misspoke when I called myself a white Christian. Professor Ward Churchill informed me that I'm actually Native American. And the Christian community has informed me that I'm not a Christian either. I have the support of my fellow Democrats and Hollywood Socialists on this plan. You can see the details of the plan on John Kerry's website."

Sounds like a moderate to me.

Sounds like a moderate to me.

That was some stunning logic there. Nice generalizations and logical flaws that truly show the depths of Howard Dean's "tolerance".

Sounds like a moderate to me.

Really? Because that sounds like flat out slander and a lie, to me.

Why not Howard Dean?
Why Hoard Dean? :D

That was some stunning logic there. Nice generalizations and logical flaws that truly show the depths of Howard Dean's "tolerance".
You really can't be that gullible, can you? :rolleyes:

More like squeezed out by the DNC because they thought that John Kerry, the haughty, French-looking Senator from Massachusetts, who, by the way also served in Vietnam, was more electable than Dean. There's no room for convictions and principles in the Democratic party these days. Of course, since the election, Dean has given us plenty of reasons to wonder about his sanity. So maybe he will be considered the most qualified nut-case this next election.
LOL! Jeeze. Rant much? :D

Arkansas only has 2.6 million people. What's the break point for population?
I've heard 10,000, or inbreeding introduces too many mutations.

Well Myrmid caught up a little there. Just a hint, there's no principles and convictions anywhere in politics, the Democrats are one of two spineless right-wing parties in the US.

I've heard 10,000, or inbreeding introduces too many mutations.
Careful there--Arkansans tell inbreeding jokes about the Carolinas. I think it's a southern thing--we always think there's a state more fucked up than out own, especially when it comes to incest. Except for Mississippi--they're the most fucked up of all. :D

(From Louisiana. :) )

Why not Howard Dean?

"Republicans have never worked an honest day in there life."

I'm sorry but this here is the primary reason I do not like Dean. Dean so far has managed to alienate the entire republican party with a line like this. With this line, he has energized most republicans.

On top of that, The democrats aren't pulling in as much fundraising money. Dean also has alienated the Conservative Democrats as well as some independents.

If Dean keeps this up, he can kiss the 2006 elections good bye.

Sounds like a moderate to me.

Sounds like sarcasm to me.

*bows head in a moment of silence, mourning the decline in human intelligence over the years*

At least Nazz got it.

Sounds like sarcasm to me.

*bows head in a moment of silence, mourning the decline in human intelligence over the years*

At least Nazz got it.
I almost blasted you for that, then realized you had to be parodying him--especially the Ward Churchill bit--so I went after the person who believed you instead.

I almost blasted you for that, then realized you had to be parodying him--especially the Ward Churchill bit--so I went after the person who believed you instead.

Haha, well, at least you caught yourself. :D

In all seriousness, though, Dean is not a moderate. He's a radical in the psycho nutbag sense, and somewhat left of center.

Clinton--Arkansas--small--good president.

Bush--Texas--large--not so good, shitty in fact.

I'd say it's a little closer to this:

Clinton--Arkansas--small--not good, not the worst, could have been a shitload better.
Bush--Texas--large--not good, not the worst, could have been a shitload better.

I dont get it, ive been on this forum a lot, and I finally had to post. I dont see why No one hear likes Howard Dean. Seems the large majority hear are anti-war and anti-bush yet they trash Howard Dean. Im just wondering why, is it cause he has enough guts to admit he is anti-war, something Kerry would never have done, or maybe it was that little scream he did. Oh yeah that makes sence, vote for a insecure wuss instead of a strong Democratic candidate. Its too late for 2004 so dont dwell in the past, Im just trying to make sure the right guy gets elected in 2008. Until that happens you can all hang your heads in shame!

I certainly won't hang my head in shame, that's for sure. I'm a registered member of the United States Republican Party and voted for George W. Bush.

I think he's a great President and it's a shame he can't have a third term in my opinion.

~ Romandeos.

Haha, well, at least you caught yourself. :D

In all seriousness, though, Dean is not a moderate. He's a radical in the psycho nutbag sense, and somewhat left of center.
He is moderate, actually--look at his record as governor. Balanced budgets, recommendations from the NRA, etc. He gets labeled a liberal because of the civil unions bill and his opposition to the Iraq War. On the first, he was required by the Vermont Supreme Court to do something and he took the more moderate stance (rather than marriage), and on the war, well, he seems more prescient than anything else.

He is moderate, actually--look at his record as governor. Balanced budgets, recommendations from the NRA, etc. He gets labeled a liberal because of the civil unions bill and his opposition to the Iraq War. On the first, he was required by the Vermont Supreme Court to do something and he took the more moderate stance (rather than marriage), and on the war, well, he seems more prescient than anything else.

And his psychotic hatred of Republicans resultant from his considering them all to fit a certain stereotype. That doesn't help his case too much, either. :)

And his psychotic hatred of Republicans resultant from his considering them all to fit a certain stereotype. That doesn't help his case too much, either. :)
So you're taking quotes out of context as well? I'd hoped for a non-Corneliu-esque discussion.

Besides, nothing he's said, in or out of context, is any worse than the crap that comes out of Rove, or Delay, or Mehlman, or Bartlett, or any of a hundred others from the Republicans.

So you're taking quotes out of context as well? I'd hoped for a non-Corneliu-esque discussion.

I'm aware of the context, but it was still a stupid thing to say.

Besides, nothing he's said, in or out of context, is any worse than the crap that comes out of Rove, or Delay, or Mehlman, or Bartlett, or any of a hundred others from the Republicans.

That's fair. Then again, I wouldn't vote for them either.

So you're taking quotes out of context as well? I'd hoped for a non-Corneliu-esque discussion.

How the hell can you take:

"Republicans haven't worked an honest day in their lives"

out of context?

And the Nazz? I'm going to ask you politely not to insult me ever again! I do ask for an apology.

Besides, nothing he's said, in or out of context, is any worse than the crap that comes out of Rove, or Delay, or Mehlman, or Bartlett, or any of a hundred others from the Republicans.

Or from hundreds of other democrats like Pelosi, Reid, Gore, Kerry, Kennedy, etc.

"Republicans haven't worked an honest day in their lives"

Not true! I'm a Republican and I work hard every day!

~ Romandeos.

Not true! I'm a Republican and I work hard every day!

~ Romandeos.

I'm a republican too Romandeos and I know for a fact that most Republicans do work for an honest living.

You apparently missed the fact that I was quoting Howard Dean.

How the hell can you take:

"Republicans haven't worked an honest day in their lives"

out of context?

That was what I said and you choose to only quote the middle part. If you had bothered to read it, you would realize that I didn't say it.

How the hell can you take:

"Republicans haven't worked an honest day in their lives"

out of context?

And the Nazz? I'm going to ask you politely not to insult me ever again! I do ask for an apology. Ask in one hand and spit in the other and see which one fills up first. You're lucky I'm even responding to you.

Dean was speaking about the republican leadership, not the rank and file, and said, I believe "most" as a qualifier.

I'm a republican too Romandeos and I know for a fact that most Republicans do work for an honest living.

You apparently missed the fact that I was quoting Howard Dean.



That was what I said and you choose to only quote the middle part. If you had bothered to read it, you would realize that I didn't say it.

I read your whole post, and yes, I realized you were quoting Dean.

~ Romandeos.

Dean is pretty moderate. There is no real left in the US.
What? :eek:

What? :eek:
In comparison to Europe, he's right. The liberal wing of the Democrats here would be considered centrist or even conservative in much of Europe. There is no real left here in the US, unless you're talking about the Green party.

I believe I have posted at least once rhetorically asking why the use of the phrase "Yeargh!" makes you unfit for the presidency, so no, I don't have a problem with Dean. I think you are just confused by the fact that whenever a Democrat comes to prominence, the Republicans respond by making his name an epithet, and the Republicmonkeys on the blogoshpere dutifully follow suit. As Dean has come to prominence, he has thus been made synonymous with "hotheaded." Not quite as bad as Santorum becoming synonymous with messy anal play, but along the same vein.


Well, I think there is some indication that people are coming around...

Latest senate race polls

Santorum (R) 37 (37)
Casey (D) 50 (44)

The Republicans over at Strategic Vision have this race at 52-38 in favor of Casey. Quinnipiac's latest on this race, from early July, had Casey winning at 50-39.

What? :eek:

The US has no viable left wing (nearly misspelled that with an 'a'). It doesn't have much of a centre either, the Dems are nearer to centre than the Republicans bu they're still right-wing.

I'm going to have to disagree with the statement that the US has no real left wing.

~ Romandeos.

Vermont has only 608,827 people. It doesn't have anywhere near the economic strength, influence, budget demands, or immigration of larger states, so governing it doesn't convey the same degree of experience as someone from Arkansas or California, for examples.

608,827 people is a far cry from 300 million Americans.

where are you getting your facts from? and why does it matter what influence the state has? i'd actually argue it has quite a fair bit of influence, considering that it was the first state to set a precedent that stuck for recognition of gay rights. as for the rest of what you say, i just say do your research. there's a reason vermont is one of the few states that's not a cement-covered eyesore, and it's mostly because there's constant state-level legislative battles to keep it that way. it's a very poor state, and taking how it ranks in healthcare, education and other social services into consideration, there are plenty of budget demands that are thankfully being handled pretty well, although they've declined since dean left office. size has very little to do with the complexity of governing a state. GW did a horrible job with texas, and look where he is now. the bottom line is that dean did a damn good job governing vermont, and the state was in far better condition when he left than when he started. that's all that really matters experience-wise, at least to me.

Well, I think there is some indication that people are coming around...

Latest senate race polls

Santorum (R) 37 (37)
Casey (D) 50 (44)

The Republicans over at Strategic Vision have this race at 52-38 in favor of Casey. Quinnipiac's latest on this race, from early July, had Casey winning at 50-39.
Casey's running on his dead father's coat tails still. Governor Casey was a great man. A strong, conservative Democrat.

I'd say it's a little closer to this:

Clinton--Arkansas--small--not good, not the worst, could have been a shitload better.
Bush--Texas--large--not good, not the worst, could have been a shitload better.

The only thing I care about is that the country seemed to function somewhat properly under Clinton. Republicans hated hated hated Clinton, and yet Clinton found a way to work with them, even when they openly worked against him. Clinton took their enmity with good grace as well. Did you ever hear him bitch? Guy made me feel relaxed, like everything was hunky-dory, even when it wasn't, unlike Bush, who'd make me uneasy at a mall opening.

Ask in one hand and spit in the other and see which one fills up first. You're lucky I'm even responding to you.

Dean was speaking about the republican leadership, not the rank and file, and said, I believe "most" as a qualifier.

He didn't say that till the next day Nazz. It was a wonderful backpeddle.

*snip*

He's running on his name only. In the end though, I'm predicting a Santorum Victory.

Casey's running on his dead father's coat tails still. Governor Casey was a great man. A strong, conservative Democrat.

From what I remember of Governor Casey (which isn't much) your right!

I dont get it, ive been on this forum a lot, and I finally had to post. I dont see why No one hear likes Howard Dean. Seems the large majority hear are anti-war and anti-bush yet they trash Howard Dean. Im just wondering why, is it cause he has enough guts to admit he is anti-war, something Kerry would never have done, or maybe it was that little scream he did. Oh yeah that makes sence, vote for a insecure wuss instead of a strong Democratic candidate. Its too late for 2004 so dont dwell in the past, Im just trying to make sure the right guy gets elected in 2008. Until that happens you can all hang your heads in shame!


I thought he would have made a fantastic President. The trouble is so did the Bush administration, so they trashed him very early on in the campagin. They obviously did such a wonderful job that most think him a wuss. I don't think that he will get anywhere in 2008, cos the right woman will win then!

And the Nazz? I'm going to ask you politely not to insult me ever again! I do ask for an apology.

I don't know if you deserve much better. You're plainly a Republican groupie and very, very biased in favour of them.

Mind you, what I've seen of the Nazz is not much better, he is just on the other side of the divide.

There's no room for convictions and principles in the Democratic party these days.
Are you under the delusion that there is room for convictions and principles in the Republican party?

Why not Howard Dean?

"Republicans have never worked an honest day in there life."

I'm sorry but this here is the primary reason I do not like Dean. Dean so far has managed to alienate the entire republican party with a line like this. With this line, he has energized most republicans.
I agree that "Republicans have never worked an honest day in there life." is wrong, a piece of slander, and so on. But I don't see why it matters that he alienates the Republican party; they'll never vote for him or his candidates anyway. If you are opposed to the concept of alienating political opponents, then why do you say nothing against John Ashcroft and Karl Rove, who say that you're unpatriotic if you disagree with them? You think that doesn't alienate people who were against the war?

What? :eek:
Among the main two parties, left-wing politics have no representation.

I'm going to have to disagree with the statement that the US has no real left wing.

~ Romandeos.
As am I.

As am I.
Are either of you going to elborate?

I thought he would have made a fantastic President. The trouble is so did the Bush administration, so they trashed him very early on in the campagin. They obviously did such a wonderful job that most think him a wuss. I don't think that he will get anywhere in 2008, cos the right woman will win then!
Dean did a fine job of trashing himself without any help from anyone.

Are either of you going to elborate?
I wouldn't bet on it, as the only thing they could put forward as evidence would be Rush-isms. Any honest examination of the political world here in the US as compared to Europe shows that what passes for left wing here would be openly conservative there, unless you're talking about the US version of the Green Party, which has no major office holders.

Dean did a fine job of trashing himself without any help from anyone.

If that were true, conservatives, in general, wouldn't concern themselves about him. It's the fact that Dean is a focal point, and a grass-roots, outside-the-box focal point at that, that unnerves the more Liberal-wary conservatives.

If Dean was political poison, he's be a non-entity.

Are you under the delusion that there is room for convictions and principles in the Republican party?


Hell, no!

That's why I only vote for a couple of them on any given election. Since I moved to Georgia, I've probably split the tickets pretty evenly between Dems and Reps. Zell Miller and Sam Nunn always got my votes, as does John (Fair Tax) Linder. Lately, I've been voting for more of the Libertarian Party candidates, if I can find out anything about their backgrounds.

At least enough to have some kind of economic significance; Arkansas doesn't have many people but a large number of corporations and businesses. You need a large, diverse economy in your state to be able to have the experience to govern the United States, and Vermont doesn't have that.
Vermont has cheese and syrup. Arkansas has chicken and hogs. There's a couple of diverse economies for ya.

But I figure that the executive decisions are about the same from one state to another. Every state has a certain number of decisions to make, it's just that the constraints differ. To make a good decision in Vermont takes into account the available resources and how to allocate them, just as it does in New York. The real criteria is that a President should be a good executive, not a good politician. Good executives are good, no matter what their situation.

The only thing I care about is that the country seemed to function somewhat properly under Clinton. Republicans hated hated hated Clinton, and yet Clinton found a way to work with them, even when they openly worked against him. Clinton took their enmity with good grace as well. Did you ever hear him bitch? Guy made me feel relaxed, like everything was hunky-dory, even when it wasn't, unlike Bush, who'd make me uneasy at a mall opening.

Well, when you don't do a whole lot, you can only look so bad. Besides, while the country was functioning properly under Clinton, it had very little to do with Clinton, himself, but the technology boom. He just road the boom and looked good. The growth began before his first term, and ended before his last, so to credit him with the way the country was running is a bit off. If anyone should be honored with the economic boom of the 90's, and not just fluke economics, it'd be Reagan, as he is the one that bankrupted the Soviets, ending the Cold War and freeing up assloads of money that was formerly being spent in an arms race. My biggest beef with Clinton is that people like him more than they should because they give him credit where credit isn't due, and the fact that he let Osama slip through his fingers on more than one occasion - something Bush has also done, unfortunately - and the fact that he took no real action after the first time people tried to knock down the towers, or after a couple of our embassies were bombed. And he's mysteriously tied to like eighty politically-related deaths while in office. Oh, yeah, and the few bombs he did drop hit an aspirin factory. Yea, I wasn't a fan. Then again, I could probably write down just as many things that I can't stand about Bush.

Well, I think there is some indication that people are coming around...

Latest senate race polls

Santorum (R) 37 (37)
Casey (D) 50 (44)

The Republicans over at Strategic Vision have this race at 52-38 in favor of Casey. Quinnipiac's latest on this race, from early July, had Casey winning at 50-39.

The faster we get rid of Santorum and others like him the better . I like my religion and morality in church not in the government. I will vote for Casey he's a good man and a conservative Dem . Santorum is a nut bag with personal issues , he needs to be given time off to deal with them . :D

The faster we get rid of Santorum and others like him the better . I like my religion and morality in church not in the government. I will vote for Casey he's a good man and a conservative Dem . Santorum is a nut bag with personal issues , he needs to be given time off to deal with them . :D

Are you sure he's a conservative? I don't think so

Besides that, his campaign in the west got hammered when the major military base near Pittsburgh got selected to stay open. The Democrats out there have already said that it was Santorum's fault but guess what? The base is staying open and Santorum can take the credit for keeping it open. Not to mention that we might have an expansion of the base thus having more jobs. Thanks Santorum :)

And kudos to Rendell for helping as well!

Corneliu, about Dean's statement that Republicans have never worked an honest day in their lives, how come you were so affected by this? I mean, I thought you were an independent or a centrist? Or are you just lying about your opinion so you can look good in front of other people?

Are you sure he's a conservative? I don't think so

Besides that, his campaign in the west got hammered when the major military base near Pittsburgh got selected to stay open. The Democrats out there have already said that it was Santorum's fault but guess what? The base is staying open and Santorum can take the credit for keeping it open. Not to mention that we might have an expansion of the base thus having more jobs. Thanks Santorum :)

And kudos to Rendell for helping as well!
Rick "gays like to fuck dogs" Santorum?


No thanks. We have a word for that sort of people, and we call them "bigots".

Corneliu, about Dean's statement that Republicans have never worked an honest day in their lives, how come you were so affected by this? I mean, I thought you were an independent or a centrist? Or are you just lying about your opinion so you can look good in front of other people?

I never said I was independent. The reason I'm upset is because my father is a registered republican (as am I but that's a different issue) and serves in the US military. That phrase didn't just piss off Republicans but some conservative Dems weren't happy and neither were independents. If Dean keeps this up, he'll alienate the conservative democrats (and there are several) as well as independents.

I dont get it, ive been on this forum a lot, and I finally had to post. I dont see why No one hear likes Howard Dean. Seems the large majority hear are anti-war and anti-bush yet they trash Howard Dean. Im just wondering why, is it cause he has enough guts to admit he is anti-war, something Kerry would never have done, or maybe it was that little scream he did. Oh yeah that makes sence, vote for a insecure wuss instead of a strong Democratic candidate. Its too late for 2004 so dont dwell in the past, Im just trying to make sure the right guy gets elected in 2008. Until that happens you can all hang your heads in shame!

Because Howard Dean's approval rating as head of the DNC is in the low thirties.

Santorum needs to keep his nose and his fantasy about screwing the pooch in his own bedroom . Any politician no matter what flavor that wants to legislate my morals can kiss my ass and look to someone else for a vote . I dont like the guy no matter what else he does . He's a close minded bigotted assmunch soon to be sent packing . All these religious fanatic far right assholes need to be sent packing to the same place their left wing brethren inhabit ...a place called oblivion . Fanatics belong on the funny pages in the newspaper , not in office .

Santorum needs to keep his nose and his fantasy about screwing the pooch in his own bedroom . Any politician no matter what flavor that wants to legislate my morals can kiss my ass and look to someone else for a vote . I dont like the guy no matter what else he does . He's a close minded bigotted assmunch soon to be sent packing . All these religious fanatic far right assholes need to be sent packing to the same place their left wing bretheren inhabit ...a place called oblivion . Fanatics belong on the funny pages in the newspaper , not in office .
Is it better to have them in office, or in the streets inciting riots like in the 1960's?

Because Howard Dean's approval rating as head of the DNC is in the low thirties.

And everyone says ouch..

Can I see proof of this please? If true, it goes to show that the dems made a mistake in electing him.

Is it better to have them in office, or in the streets inciting riots like in the 1960's?

Is it better having them write laws and influence legislation while in office or have them on the streets inciting riots where its possible to put them in jail or shoot them ?

Is it better having them write laws and influence legislation while in office or have them on the streets inciting riots where its possible to put them in jail or shoot them ?
Yep. I was a big fan of Bleeding Kansas and the Civil War, but most Americans are just too darn cowardly to fight wars over morals anymore. :p

If that were true, conservatives, in general, wouldn't concern themselves about him. It's the fact that Dean is a focal point, and a grass-roots, outside-the-box focal point at that, that unnerves the more Liberal-wary conservatives.

If Dean was political poison, he's be a non-entity.
PLEASE run him for President!

Because Howard Dean's approval rating as head of the DNC is in the low thirties.
I'd like to see proof of that as well, because I think it came from your nether regions.