NationStates Jolt Archive

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,16628601%255E2703,00.html
Sure, I think Gerhard Schroeder should burn in hell, and I pray every night that he sees how wicked and foolish he is. That does not mean that I'm doing the legal equivilant of bombing Germany. Unfortunatly, the US, UK, and EU leaders have actually said this.
Those who know me know about my fierce opposition to the US acceptance of aid from foreign nations after Katrina. I was vindicated once Mexico's President Vincente Fox thought he had the White House's ear on his laundry list of complaints. I feel it works both ways. A foreign government should not issue a public statement about the internal politics of another nation. The pirate government in Berlin, while poisonous to Germans, is of no threat to its neighbors. At the very most, Schroeder will just stir the anti-American pot more, as he is wont to do.

Now that I got that rant out, I want to ask another question. Some commentators have noticed the rise of a communist party in Germany. This is not new to modern Europe, for significant elements of the French and Italian political scenes are communist elements. Moldova actually has an elected communist government in Chisnau. However, its rise will create a splash in one of the most powerful nations in Europe. The speculation is that, no matter who gets to be chancellor, neither party will have a majority. The Communists may be, after the Greens, the largest third party in Germany. They may be the deciding faction. Does that flip you out as much as it does for me?

The last thing we need are more Communists to fuck up the other half of Germany; if I'm correct, Germany's still spending a fortune to clean up that mess. Germany needs to change or their system is going to collapse.

The last thing we need are more Communists to fuck up the other half of Germany; if I'm correct, Germany's still spending a fortune to clean up that mess. Germany needs to change or their system is going to collapse.
I agree, and so long as the communists stay out of power, it is best that no outside government says anything. Right now, though, they need to keep quiet.
But your right: we do need to keep an eye on this. My belief is that it will inevitably work out as Germany sees the dynamism of its neighbors. I believe that it can learn more from the East than it can help it, like its embrace of markets. Yet we know what a strong Germany has done in the wrong hands. Their ultra-militaristic spirit may not have been beaten out after all. It'd be interesting to watch.

Do I smell bullshit?Yes.
Do I smell ignorance?Yes.
Do I sense a possibility of willfull ignorance?Most definately.

Do me a favor and get your education on german politics from a german textbook.Chances are high that it might be accurate.

edit: I just read that newspaper article.It´s so incorrect it almost made me vomit.Jesus,why don´t you read Der Spiegel or something with a less blurred view of events?

Do I smell bullshit?Yes.
Do I smell ignorance?Yes.
Do I sense a possibility of willfull ignorance?Most definately.

Do me a favor and get your education on german politics from a german textbook.Chances are high that it might be accurate.

Oh please. Don't insult people for speaking the truth.

I don't think Schreoder will survive this election, and will be voted out. Merkel will usher in pro-business reforms and help reduce unemployment. Schroeder has practically broken every promise he has made including lowering unemployment. His policies are not effective and there needs to be some major reform.

I´m referring more to the "communist threat" part...

Oooh,the big and scary WASG/PDS who´ll probably only get around 5% (at most) is gonna be the third-largest party.That guy´s pulling this out of his ass on a biased online-article.

edit: and about Merkel-she´s an idiot.The only thing that could be worse for Germany than Merkel as chancellor would be Oskar Lafontaine in that same position and THAT won´t ever happen.Don´t get me wrong,Schröder´s also a complete idiot,but he hasn´t done half as much harm as I suspect Merkel will do,what with her idiotic views on Russia and the Bush administration.

I´m referring more to the "communist threat" part...

Oooh,the big and scary WASG/PDS who´ll probably only get around 5% (at most) is gonna be the third-largest party.That guy´s pulling this out of his ass on a biased online-article.

You need to do a lot better then that. You have to post refutations. Not just biased rantings.

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,16628601%255E2703,00.html
Sure, I think Gerhard Schroeder should burn in hell, and I pray every night that he sees how wicked and foolish he is.Dang. I wonder how much you must hate Bush if Schröder seems bad to you...

Jeez, you have no idea about German politics. If you tried to understand them instead of looking for sources that reflect your opinion, this could actually turn into a debate. But the accusation that Schröder is "wicked and foolish" doesn't have much merit.

And the communists don't have jack-shit when it comes to votes. The MLPD and KPD have never gotten anywhere near the 5 % necessary to get into the Bundestag. I think you're referring to the former PDS (former SED) with "communists" (they're not, they're democratic socialists). They were the former ruling party and I personally don't trust them, but most of their members are in it because they wanted to change the system from within. They may have loony proposals for what they want to do, but lumping them together with Schröder is pure ignorance, especially since the new Left Party is headed by a former inner-party rival of Schröder.

You seriously have no clue about German politics and having to listen to you is quite infuriating. (and the Left Party beats the Greens when it comes to seats which actually means... nothing. We have coalitions between parties here and it doesn't matter how many seats the Left gets as long as two or three parties capable of agreement get at least 50% of the seats.)

You need to do a lot better then that. You have to post refutations. Not just biased rantings.
Considering that this started off with a biased and misinformed rant, I believe the OP needs to put some facts on the table first.

Oh please. Don't insult people for speaking the truth.He isn't. The claim that the Left Party will be behind the Greens is false, and therefore not the truth.

I don't think Schreoder will survive this election, and will be voted out. Merkel will usher in pro-business reforms and help reduce unemployment. Schroeder has practically broken every promise he has made including lowering unemployment. His policies are not effective and there needs to be some major reform.I can't refute the last parts, only say that you can't know what the future brings (and Schröder didn't break the promise not to send troops to Iraq yet). Oh, and Schröder has been gaining. The public polls taken so far have both parties pretty much breaking even or a very, very, very slim lead for black-yellow.
No one can tell for certain who will win, so please don't assume that you can. ;)

I just felt the need to reply to something that seems to be implied in the first few posts. Why is it that some people who claim claim to suport democracy, seem to feel that it is all right to overthrow democraticaly elected goverments when they are of a leftist stance? I mean even if you disagre with the people of that nations decision where do you get the right to try to forcibly overturn that decision.

I just felt the need to reply to something that seems to be implied in the first few posts. Why is it that some people who claim claim to suport democracy, seem to feel that it is all right to overthrow democraticaly elected goverments when they are of a leftist stance? I mean even if you disagre with the people of that nations decision where do you get the right to try to forcibly overturn that decision.That hasn't been done anytime recently... The US is opting for "regime-change" but it isn't going to do it anytime soon. Also, I'll give the guys here credit that they want him voted out of office.

That hasn't been done anytime recently... The US is opting for "regime-change" but it isn't going to do it anytime soon. Also, I'll give the guys here credit that they want him voted out of office.
I know it hasn't accured recently, assuming Chaves' claims are inaccurate, I was refering more to their tone when they were talking about how they ought to keep an eye on any success the "communists" have. Although it is quite possible I am just reading to much in to what they were saying.

You are calling such movements "communist" only because you believe it may stress your point (which I consider flawed, by the way). The fact is that they are populist movements, sometimes absurd and sometimes acceptable.
The Party in Germany is not profiting of a rise in "communism", but of an increase in nostalgia for what was a rigid regime, but one percieved (not wrongly, just unhappily) as ensuring social eqality. It has abandoned any authoritarian tendency - be it for opportunism's sake.
In Moldova, the situation is even more obscure, and you've proven that you do not follow the details in it. The "Communist" Party (yes, UNLIKE the one in Germany, it is named that) is the only one to support Moldavian/Moldovan identity (a fake identity, arguably, since it was created by the Russians as an alternative to the Romanian one; HOWEVER, it is now supported by most of Moldova's population. Look it up). That is its main purpose and ideology - making them weary towards Romanian policies, but - just as well - against Russian ones. Moldova's president has had an open conflict with Putin, and, even more significant, with the Dnestrian "State" (a breakaway COMMUNIST, but Moldovan Russian-led region). Moldova constantly expressed her wish to become a member of the EU, and I can think of no Moldovan policy that would point to Marxist inspiration.

I can't refute the last parts, only say that you can't know what the future brings (and Schröder didn't break the promise not to send troops to Iraq yet). Oh, and Schröder has been gaining. The public polls taken so far have both parties pretty much breaking even or a very, very, very slim lead for black-yellow.
No one can tell for certain who will win, so please don't assume that you can. ;)

Actually, I've seen some late polls coming in showing the conservatives regained some of the leads they had. It is projected they will win 48-51%, enough to make a majority. Schroeder is still losing. He's an idiot that has to go. His policies are ineffective and people will judge him on that when they get to the ballot boxes, I hope. I hope he does lose.

I can assume whatever the hell I want because this is what I see.

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20050916/wl_nm/germany_election_dc_3

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,16628601%255E2703,00.html
Sure, I think Gerhard Schroeder should burn in hell, and I pray every night that he sees how wicked and foolish he is. That does not mean that I'm doing the legal equivilant of bombing Germany. Unfortunatly, the US, UK, and EU leaders have actually said this.
Those who know me know about my fierce opposition to the US acceptance of aid from foreign nations after Katrina. I was vindicated once Mexico's President Vincente Fox thought he had the White House's ear on his laundry list of complaints. I feel it works both ways. A foreign government should not issue a public statement about the internal politics of another nation. The pirate government in Berlin, while poisonous to Germans, is of no threat to its neighbors. At the very most, Schroeder will just stir the anti-American pot more, as he is wont to do.

Now that I got that rant out, I want to ask another question. Some commentators have noticed the rise of a communist party in Germany. This is not new to modern Europe, for significant elements of the French and Italian political scenes are communist elements. Moldova actually has an elected communist government in Chisnau. However, its rise will create a splash in one of the most powerful nations in Europe. The speculation is that, no matter who gets to be chancellor, neither party will have a majority. The Communists may be, after the Greens, the largest third party in Germany. They may be the deciding faction. Does that flip you out as much as it does for me?

I concerns me, since anti-communist sentiment afforded Hitler the means to acquire the chancellory, and neo_nazism is still present in Germany. :(

I concerns me, since anti-communist sentiment afforded Hitler the means to acquire the chancellory, and neo_nazism is still present in Germany. :(

Today's situation is nothing like that. And Merkel is not comparable to Hitler. :rolleyes:

Actually, I've seen some late polls coming in showing the conservatives regained some of the leads they had. It is projected they will win 48-51%, enough to make a majority. Schroeder is still losing. He's an idiot that has to go. His policies are ineffective and people will judge him on that when they get to the ballot boxes, I hope. I hope he does lose.

I can assume whatever the hell I want because this is what I see.

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20050916/wl_nm/germany_election_dc_3
Luckily, you have no voting rights in Germany. As for your article:
Conservative leader Angela Merkel's centre-right alliance has re-established a slight poll lead over its leftist rivals two days before an election that could decide the fate of Germany's long-cherished welfare state.Bolded parts are the important ones. Polls are never 100% accurate. This poll means that it will be damn close, and that anything goes, which is why all parties have not taken to the customary election rally break 24 hours before election as has been in the past.
The polls have been fluctuating from a slight lead for Merkel to an even break between the two alliances.
And Schröder's policies are not so "ineffective" as you might assume. The healthcare system has been back in the profit zone shortly after it got reformed.
And why do you love Merkel so much anyway?

Today's situation is nothing like that. And Merkel is not comparable to Hitler. :rolleyes:

just a point though

I concerns me, since anti-communist sentiment afforded Hitler the means to acquire the chancellory, and neo_nazism is still present in Germany. :(All five parties are united against neo nazism. It's one thing they all agree on perfectly and should be applauded for.

Luckily, you have no voting rights in Germany. As for your article:
Bolded parts are the important ones. Polls are never 100% accurate. This poll means that it will be damn close, and that anything goes, which is why all parties have not taken to the customary election rally break 24 hours before election as has been in the past.
The polls have been fluctuating from a slight lead for Merkel to an even break between the two alliances.
And Schröder's policies are not so "ineffective" as you might assume. The healthcare system has been back in the profit zone shortly after it got reformed.
And why do you love Merkel so much anyway?
Look at his economic score he probably hopes she will work to privatize variouse institutions.

Bolded parts are the important ones. Polls are never 100% accurate. This poll means that it will be damn close, and that anything goes, which is why all parties have not taken to the customary election rally break 24 hours before election as has been in the past.
The polls have been fluctuating from a slight lead for Merkel to an even break between the two alliances.
And Schröder's policies are not so "ineffective" as you might assume. The healthcare system has been back in the profit zone shortly after it got reformed.
And why do you love Merkel so much anyway?

I think there has to be some change, because Schroder's policies have contributed to a bad recession. Unemployment needs to be lowered, and all it has been doing is rising. Merkel, from what I have read, will usher in more pro-business reforms which will help bring one of the world's largest economies back on the right track. Schroeder really has to go. His time is up.

All five parties are united against neo nazism. It's one thing they all agree on perfectly and should be applauded for.

Is communism all that different if we assume it would transpire as Communist Russia?

oh great more insane americans talking bollocks just what the world needs

Is communism all that different if we assume it would transpire as Communist Russia?
Has anyone read my post - number 14?

Is communism all that different if we assume it would transpire as Communist Russia?
Why should we make that assumption?

(...)

Thanks for saving me the trouble of typing all of that myself. I second it all and will watch your back, Laerod!

And here's some real information collected by journalists of Der Spiegel, headlines here as given by the articels:

The Road to the Chancellery in Brief
http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/0,1518,374838,00.html

Who Wants to Play Politics with Angela Merkel?
http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/0,1518,374669,00.html

Reform the Country, But Don't Tell the Voters
http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/0,1518,375081,00.html

A Dirty End to a Dreary Election
http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/0,1518,375065,00.html

Election Barometer - All the polls in one glance
http://www.spiegel.de/flash/0,5532,11764,00.html

And yes, it's in English. Go ahead and read it - it might just be what you needed to understand German politics.

I'd like to clarify things about the Left Party (Linkspartei) that people are referring to as "the communists" since I think it might help.
The Linkspartei consists of the WASG (Wahlalternative soziale Gerechtigkeit - Voting alternative social justice) and the PDS (Partei des Demokratischen Sozialismus - Party of Democratic Socialism).
The WASG has nothing to do with communists. It was formed to provide a socialist alternative to the program of Schröder and the SPD. It was also founded in West Germany. The PDS is the former SED (Sozilistisch Einheitspartei Deutschlands - Socialist Unity party of Germany). This was the party that ruled East Germany. It was formed (or forced) out of the SPD (Social Democrats) and KPD (Communists) party members in East Germany. Both parties continued to exist in West Germany.
The PDS changed itself to conform with the democratic requirements of the Federal Republic, and unlike the neo-nazis, aren't out to return to totalitarian rule. In fact, they're currently not even going for a part in the government. They want to be an opposition party.

i, a german studying political science, herewith full-heartedly agree with all the othe rpots before me that the author of the first post has no clue whatsoever what s/he is talking about.

i vehemently support that one comment about only calling the mlpd and the kpd communist; calling the wasg/pds/linke communist is populism and angerous misleading.

I concerns me, since anti-communist sentiment afforded Hitler the means to acquire the chancellory, and neo_nazism is still present in Germany. :(
Don't worry, we'll be fine.

I think there has to be some change, because Schroder's policies have contributed to a bad recession. Unemployment needs to be lowered, and all it has been doing is rising. Merkel, from what I have read, will usher in more pro-business reforms which will help bring one of the world's largest economies back on the right track. Schroeder really has to go. His time is up.
Actually things were going well and looking on the bright side before 9/11 and its impact on our economy and the stock market.
Merkel does not give a shit about the common man and still hasn't said what exactly she'll implement to make things better.

Creating jobs is not in the hands of the government but in those of the economy. And those guys have not been helpful despite their high win margins.

Glad I will get my vote to count tomorrow. It should be interesting to see a true democratic outcome, even if close. I'm thrilled and looking forward to casting my ballot.

I think there has to be some change, because Schroder's policies have contributed to a bad recession. Unemployment needs to be lowered, and all it has been doing is rising. Merkel, from what I have read, will usher in more pro-business reforms which will help bring one of the world's largest economies back on the right track. Schroeder really has to go. His time is up.16 consequtive years of Kohl have contributed more to the problem than Schröder's attempts to remedy them. Merkel is pretty clueless when it comes to politics too. She won't be any better, in fact, she was a member of Kohl's government. "Pro-business" laws probably won't really do it. Germany is not the US and trying to turn the economy into that will cause more harm than good.

p.s. *aks to be allowed to form a coalition with nightmare and laerod*

16 consequtive years of Kohl have contributed more to the problem than Schröder's attempts to remedy them. Merkel is pretty clueless when it comes to politics too. She won't be any better, in fact, she was a member of Kohl's government. "Pro-business" laws probably won't really do it. Germany is not the US and trying to turn the economy into that will cause more harm than good.

I disagree with you.

p.s. *aks to be allowed to form a coalition with nightmare and laerod*Haha! Wir Deutschen die morgen wählen gehen müssen zusammen halten :D
I disagree with you.On what? That Kohl not reforming the pension, healthcare, and various other problems had nothing to do with it? That Kohl was too busy with unifying Germany and promising East Germans "flowering landscapes" to take care of the situation? OR that cultures are different?

p.s. *aks to be allowed to form a coalition with nightmare and laerod*
I'm open for coalition negotiations anytime. Don't think Laerod would mind, either.

Besides, the problem with Kohl's 16 years reign is that he didn't have any good economical solutions how to finance the German reunification. For example how to pay for all those Eastern pensions in Western currency (one reason why there's money missing in that account), same goes for unemployment, social security, health care...

Instead of starting the necessary reforms like Scandinavia, Denmark, or the Netherlands, he just pretended the West could pay for all once the East was incorporated into the Federal Republic. He couldn't have been more wrong. And Merkel was his political foster child...

Good one, Laerod - you made the same arguments at the same time :D

I'm open for coalition negotiations anytime. Don't think Laerod would mind, either.Not in the least :D

You added a bit more depth to your arguements, though GN.

alright, seems like we got a coalition. ar we going to agree on a name? pity that we're deciding on it all alittle too late to run for (this) election..and..
Haha! Wir Deutschen die morgen wählen gehen müssen zusammen halten i'm sorry to disappoint you..hope it's not gonna kick me out of the coalition.. but.. ich hab schon vor ner woche gewählt! nix mit morgen :p

i'm sorry to disappoint you... :pBriefwähler, was? :p
Nee, ich bin extra aus Cottbus zurück nach Berlin gefahren um in meinem Wahllokal meine Stimme abzugeben. :D

keep on going like this and you'll have paranoid folks like little lotus puppy think that we're planning to take the communist revolution to dear US or someting..nothing against a little secrecy, though.. *hopes that this did not give away that the all-german thread is just there so that we got a nice place where to plan the communist overthrow undisturbedly*

oh, yes, briefwähler..couldn't be bothered the 2-hour train ride..well, it's more like couldn't be bothered the train ride and inavoidably meeting my parents there.. :gundge:

Ich wäre für ein Bündis wo jeder seinen eigenen Name behalten kann :D

Hehe, I just take a 2 minute walk from door (home) to door (polling station) - the only time I actually set foot in that Catholic church :p

(Can't even smoke a cigarette on the way... simply too close nearby)

oh, trying to distinguish yourself/us from the "communists"? ;)

i'm all for caling it the LSG. we'd all contribute to it and it could always stand for leider schrecklich gescheitert :p or check other alternative meaning at acronymfinder.com -> i'd personally opt for lip-smacking good, little school girl, or low speed group.. but i guess we'll be finding lots more.. :)

keep on going like this and you'll have paranoid folks like little lotus puppy think that we're planning to take the communist revolution to dear US or someting..nothing against a little secrecy, though.. *hopes that this did not give away that the all-german thread is just there so that we got a nice place where to plan the communist overthrow undisturbedly* Hehe, I might actually. I've got dual citizenship :D

oh, yes, briefwähler..couldn't be bothered the 2-hour train ride..well, it's more like couldn't be bothered the train ride and inavoidably meeting my parents there.. :gundge:I could bear my 1 1/2 hour train ride rather well, since my laptop died and I needed to get it fixed.
Now for the American elections, I just couldn't be bothered to pay for a plane ticket to a town which I've never been to to cast my ballot. I went for an overseas ballot instead :p

you are forced to set foot in a fucking catholic church for voting?! i'm appalled! and how..unverantwortlich! cuz wasn't it something like that you'll be hit by a lightning bolt the second you go over the schwelle of a church if you're inherently evil (which i just assume you are)?!

Ich wäre für ein Bündis wo jeder seinen eigenen Name behalten kann :D

Hehe, I just take a 2 minute walk from door (home) to door (polling station) - the only time I actually set foot in that Catholic church :p

(Can't even smoke a cigarette on the way... simply too close nearby)I actually drove to the polling station (about a five minute walk...) which is pretty sad, since I voted green. But I'd just gotten my driver's license, so it was the first time I got to drive my mom's car and my mom didn't want to walk to the Schrebergarten Kolonie anyway... :rolleyes:

Now for the American elections, I just couldn't be bothered to pay for a plane ticket to a town which I've never been to to cast my ballot. I went for an overseas ballot instead

hope you realize(d) that you therewith sold your soul to the devil as you know what happens to overseas ballots within the US voting system..

LSG sounds good to me. We could even sell it on blotting paper - oh wait, wrong business, we're talking politics :D

Laerod, I forgot to say in my last post where I disagreed with you.. that this disagreement was mainly with the fact that Schroeder, though pushing some reforms, was doing too little too late. There needs to be more radical economic changes made and Merkel seems like the one to do that. And yes I believe Germany can reduce their welfare state.

and my mom didn't want to walk to the Schrebergarten Kolonie anyway

now please do NOT tell me you're vting someplace in a schrebergarten kolonie because then i'll really start to.. dunno. seomthing really bad, though.there oughta be guidelines telling you what criteria a polling place must adhere t to become such.

Laerod, I forgot to say in my last post where I disagreed with you.. that this disagreement was mainly with the fact that Schroeder, though pushing some reforms, was doing too little too late. There needs to be more radical economic changes made and Merkel seems like the one to do that. And yes I believe Germany can reduce their welfare state.
Too little too late maybe - but it's hard to get anything through a majority of the conservatives in the Bundesrat which also have to pass the laws already accepted in the Bundestag.
And I don't see Merkel being able to do that.
Besides, the reactions Schröder's reduction on the welfare state have evoked will be nothing compared to what Merkel has in store for the masses, believe me!

And yes I believe Germany can reduce their welfare state.
"can" is one thing, "should" is another..

and wtf is blotting paper?!

"can" is one thing, "should" is another..

and wtf is blotting paper?!
Yes a question I can answer. Blotting paper is paper used to "blot" the ink dry after writing, normally with an old pen, so that it dosent smear or run.

you are forced to set foot in a fucking catholic church for voting?! i'm appalled! and how..unverantwortlich! cuz wasn't it something like that you'll be hit by a lightning bolt the second you go over the schwelle of a church if you're inherently evil (which i just assume you are)?!
Well, it didn't happen the last times and guess it won't happen this time. And it's not like they set up the ballot box on the altar or something. It's in the Gemeindebüro. (You were looking for "threshold"?)

Yes a question I can answer. Blotting paper is paper used to "blot" the ink dry after writing, normally with an old pen, so that it dosent smear or run.
That's right. Gutes altes Löschpapier (für den LSD-Konsum einfach in kleine Portionen zu zerteilen - aber das Zeug habe ich noch nicht angerührt und werde es auch nicht!)

Laerod, I forgot to say in my last post where I disagreed with you.. that this disagreement was mainly with the fact that Schroeder, though pushing some reforms, was doing too little too late. There needs to be more radical economic changes made and Merkel seems like the one to do that. And yes I believe Germany can reduce their welfare state.Merkel had her chance when she worked for Kohl. She's his protegé and if Schröder is guilty of not getting reforms done on time, then she's got a bit more dirt on her shirt. And one of the reasons why Schröder couldn't get those things done is because of Merkel's CDU. Most laws that have such big impacts as the reforms need to pass through the Bundesrat, which is made up of the 16 state governments. These are predominately controlled by the CDU and have fought the reforms tooth and nail and are to blame for slowing the process down.
I don't know how far you think Germany's social system can be reduced, but it only goes so far. One of the reason's why the election is so close is because people hate Schröder for reducing the social state.

an

now please do NOT tell me you're vting someplace in a schrebergarten kolonie because then i'll really start to.. dunno. seomthing really bad, though.there oughta be guidelines telling you what criteria a polling place must adhere t to become such.I do... I'm still registered in the Schweizer Viertel in Lichterfelde, which seems to have plenty of these places. It's not so bad though. Voting is done in the meeting house of the local group and you have nice tall hedges to prevent you from spying on the gardens :D

Well, it didn't happen the last times
now, am i wrong about the lightning story or about your degree of evilness?

And it's not like they set up the ballot box on the altar or something
*is getting very funny mental images she'd better not share*

You were looking for "threshold?
oh, i'm not looking for anything! i'm just blatantly showing off what a great multi-lingual i am, throwing in german words at random. ;)

Now, am i wrong about the lightning story or about your degree of evilness?
Tough one. Maybe the reason is that the Gemeindebüro is not really part of the church and thus this rule doesn't apply?
*is getting very funny mental images she'd better not share*:eek: Now you've got me interested! Wie schlimm ist es denn?
oh, i'm not looking for anything! i'm just blatantly showing off what a great multi-lingual i am, throwing in german words at random. ;)
Oh yes, fifty-fünzig all the way, Kleines :D (Ich hab's nur erwähnt weil ich's selbst bei leo.org nachgeschaut hatte)

perhaps the workers of germany are getting sick of supporting such a huge welfare state... socialism leads to unmaximized economy (not as strong as it could be, anyway) and high unemployment.

so simple, but so true: give people what they need, and some will choose to sit on their asses.

it's funny to see people without a clue about german politics starting a thread about the upcoming german elections. it's just a pitty that i was too late to take part in the big "tidy it up" afterwards :D
concerning the so called "populistic parties": ithink it'S hard to decide who's populistic and who's not in a modern election. the only posters that had a massage and actually displayed a program were the green's posters and they didnt look political at all, it was more like Media-Markt in green. ah yes, and there was the NPD with 500€ kindergeld...
but that doesn't need to be discussed...
i think this election is, just as many others, a fight for the dumb folks, that believe every shit. no one that really thinks about what the parties want to do and why they want to that, would know who to vote, because they all the parties say senseless things. no one says how the things they do will work.
my favorite words of the last weeks: "Wir stehen für moderne Familienpolitik, aber wofür stehen die anderen?" (We represent modern family-politics, but what do the others represent?). Of course no one has a clue and the people are just gonna be with what is said...
i, for my part, have absolutly no idea of what's gonna happen in the next 4 years, no matter who will be elected...

Oh yes, fifty-fünzig all the way, Kleines

if you ever call me that again you might have to die :sniper:
(oh, but then, i just killed you already quite artfully and thoroughly in the other thread. no more need to worry.).

This is sad. I thought this thread would be about the foreign endorsement of Merkel, which I oppose. I didn't want it to be about my views on Schroeder. They are self-explanatory. Of course, I bear some responsibility for steering the conversation. My remarks about Schroeder were, well, sensational. But I don't want to talk about him. I want to talk about how foreign governments are interferring in the discourse of German democracy.

keep on going like this and you'll have paranoid folks like little lotus puppy think that we're planning to take the communist revolution to dear US or someting..nothing against a little secrecy, though.. *hopes that this did not give away that the all-german thread is just there so that we got a nice place where to plan the communist overthrow undisturbedly*

No, no communist revolution will spread. This neo-communism is dying out in its originator, Moldova, and will do the same elsewhere. It's just depressing to find that people believe this, and that a large element of the population wants to restrict liberties in the name of equality.

No, no communist revolution will spread. This neo-communism is dying out in its originator, Moldova, and will do the same elsewhere. It's just depressing to find that people believe this, and that a large element of the population wants to restrict liberties in the name of equality.
Again with Moldova! I wrote something in post 14, you disregarded it.
I know it gives a "constructive" image of a bipolar world, but it's not true. Fact is, this is hardly any ideology, let alone one of the (many and contradictory!) forms of communism.

Again with Moldova! I wrote something in post 14, you disregarded it.
I know it gives a "constructive" image of a bipolar world, but it's not true. Fact is, this is hardly any ideology, let alone one of the (many and contradictory!) forms of communism.
I did not read post 14, or most posts for that matter. I only read enough to understand that the conversation was not going where I intended it to go.
In any case, the Moldovian communists were originally communist, but fizzled out. I understand your point that the Communists there aren't really communists anymore, but they once were. It is representative of a nostalgia that is sweeping parts of Central and Eastern Europe, and is now popping up in Germany. It will fade once the German communists realize that May Day parades in Berlin with old Trabants are boring.

I did not read post 14, or most posts for that matter. I only read enough to understand that the conversation was not going where I intended it to go.
In any case, the Moldovian communists were originally communist, but fizzled out. I understand your point that the Communists there aren't really communists anymore, but they once were. It is representative of a nostalgia that is sweeping parts of Central and Eastern Europe, and is now popping up in Germany. It will fade once the German communists realize that May Day parades in Berlin with old Trabants are boring.
I would be worried about the real threats posed by Eastern Europe: the fact that the former Soviet beaureaucracy is not communist (since they see the communists for what they are, i.e.: leaders of failing, un-cohesive, decadent states), and that it has adapted itself to mobsterism - this being an opportunity offered them by capitalism.
And, anywhere outside the former Soviet Union, even when things take a similar form (as happens in Albania), I assure you the causes are different and local (it is a dialectical strech to think of the GDR in the same terms as Moldova).

I would be worried about the real threats posed by Eastern Europe: the fact that the former Soviet beaureaucracy is not communist (since they see the communists for what they are, i.e.: leaders of failing, un-cohesive, decadent states), and that it has adapted itself to mobsterism - this being an opportunity offered them by capitalism.
And, anywhere outside the former Soviet Union, even when things take a similar form (as happens in Albania), I assure you the causes are different and local (it is a dialectical strech to think of the GDR in the same terms as Moldova).
I am worried about the mafia element only with Russia. The current regime survives by an alliance of big business, crime bosses, and ex-Soviet bureaucrats like Putin. But the only reason that poses a threat is because they are powerful, and even worse, a rapidly decaying power. There's no telling what Russia will do under such a deadly mix, but it is unidealogical, and therefore can't easily spread. Besides, most of Eastern Europe is not like this at all.
Neo-communism, on the other hand, poses some threat as it is an ideaology. It fizzled out quickly in many spots, but if it ever got hold, it'd be dangerous. It is disturbing that such a large element of it is appearing in one of the richest nations on the planet, and one of the most strategic ones at that. Whether it easily fizzles or not remains to be seen, but what's different is that some of the people here never knew what communism was.

I am worried about the mafia element only with Russia. The current regime survives by an alliance of big business, crime bosses, and ex-Soviet bureaucrats like Putin. But the only reason that poses a threat is because they are powerful, and even worse, a rapidly decaying power. There's no telling what Russia will do under such a deadly mix, but it is unidealogical, and therefore can't easily spread. Besides, most of Eastern Europe is not like this at all.
Neo-communism, on the other hand, poses some threat as it is an ideaology. It fizzled out quickly in many spots, but if it ever got hold, it'd be dangerous. It is disturbing that such a large element of it is appearing in one of the richest nations on the planet, and one of the most strategic ones at that. Whether it easily fizzles or not remains to be seen, but what's different is that some of the people here never knew what communism was.

You don't either. Go read Das Kapital and report back.

Russia is huge, whether or not their system spreads or not it's dangerous in itself. Mob bosses are not good national leaders at the best of times and these are not the best of times.

Is it me or is Merkel a Thatcherite? And given the results of Thatcherism in the UK (massive increase in unemployment, gutted manual industry et al) it would seem Germany would suffer as badly if not worse.

You don't either. Go read Das Kapital and report back.
No, I never did. That's one reason why I don't want it.
Russia is huge, whether or not their system spreads or not it's dangerous in itself. Mob bosses are not good national leaders at the best of times and these are not the best of times.

The only thing that concerns me is their great command of resources, particularly weapons, and their ill-allocation of them. But if you ask me, the Russian government will evolve into a well-run free state in about twenty years. Russians just have too much interaction with the outside world to constantly be content with what they have now.

I am worried about the mafia element only with Russia. The current regime survives by an alliance of big business, crime bosses, and ex-Soviet bureaucrats like Putin. But the only reason that poses a threat is because they are powerful, and even worse, a rapidly decaying power. There's no telling what Russia will do under such a deadly mix, but it is unidealogical, and therefore can't easily spread. Besides, most of Eastern Europe is not like this at all.
Neo-communism, on the other hand, poses some threat as it is an ideaology. It fizzled out quickly in many spots, but if it ever got hold, it'd be dangerous. It is disturbing that such a large element of it is appearing in one of the richest nations on the planet, and one of the most strategic ones at that. Whether it easily fizzles or not remains to be seen, but what's different is that some of the people here never knew what communism was.
You use two misconceptions:
- I wasn't addressing "Russia and the rest of Eastern Europe", but rather the quagmire that is much more at home in Moldova than it is in Russia. I tend to think that Russia and Moldova have similar attitudes to the Mafia: they would feel blessed to get rid of it, but they have to tolerate some of it - in Russia, because they don't have the funds, and in Moldova because they want to be alive tomorrow (incidentally, to prove my point, Putin is not a member of the bureaucracy, he's an ex-KGB - the institution that most Russians still view as patriotic, the institution that was mostly frustrated when it lost its say to the new bosses).
- There is no "neo-communism" of any sort. National-communism, which can be said to have originated in my own country, has had its day - it is challenged, primarily, by more "authentic" forms of nationalism.
To make things clear: Communists aren't really communist. In Moldova, they are in power because they are defined by rejecting both Romanian and Russian inflence - it is localism more than marxism, and it is supported as such (because, again, the Party has had ambigous policies: it is an ardent pro-European one).

Now, here's my oppritunity to scream. Will anyone tell me if it is right or wrong for foreign governments to endorse German chancellor candidates? I asked this in the first post, but no one has answered me.

Die you commi bastards :upyours:

No, I never did. That's one reason why I don't want it.

So in other words you attack communism basing your arguments on the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics.

Not much point really is there?

Now, here's my oppritunity to scream. Will anyone tell me if it is right or wrong for foreign governments to endorse German chancellor candidates? I asked this in the first post, but no one has answered me.
And how does it matter that they do? It has happened for eons in one country or another, in one form or another (Germany herself has jumped at the chance to tear Yugoslavia apart, both in Slovenia and Croatia).
Even if they don't show up with endorsements, is this to say that they cannot do it in a vieled form?
Plus, this is selective. What has DEFINED US policy is its determination to enforce "our sons-of-bitches".

Now, here's my oppritunity to scream. Will anyone tell me if it is right or wrong for foreign governments to endorse German chancellor candidates? I asked this in the first post, but no one has answered me.
Also, let me point out stuff:
-what you chose to call "communists" in Germany have been the 4th-5th party for a while now, and it did not matter much - given that there are 2-4 main parties, and only two reliable coalitions (SPD-Grun; CDU-CSU). So, chill.
- it shouldn't be news to you that, throughout his time in government, Berlusconi has led a coalition with two far-right parties. One of those is the reformed fascists. Look it up.

I did not read post 14, or most posts for that matter. I only read enough to understand that the conversation was not going where I intended it to go.A big mistake, I assure you, considering that some of us actually know what you're talking about and are trying to tell you that you are wrong. The "Communists" (the ones trying to turn Germany into a communist state) are the MLPD and the KPD. Even the MLPD wants a state different from the SED-Regime because it's shown that it doesn't work.
The SED changed into the PDS because it's fundamental purposes changed. This isn't the elite cadre of government officials that ran the GDR, this is a bunch of young idealists that wanted to change the GDR from within (and it was these people that voted for unification in the East German "parliament". They were just as sick of dictatorship as anyone else.)

Now, here's my oppritunity to scream. Will anyone tell me if it is right or wrong for foreign governments to endorse German chancellor candidates? I asked this in the first post, but no one has answered me.It's wrong. This is why the Bush administration has been doing it covertly (though very obviously).
Sometimes, you lose when you bet on one side openly (Putin and the Ukrainian elections, anyone?) and you turn out to have to work together with the guys you wanted out of office/never to get into office. This is rather difficult to do when you tell everyone you wanted the other guy to win.

perhaps the workers of germany are getting sick of supporting such a huge welfare state... socialism leads to unmaximized economy (not as strong as it could be, anyway) and high unemployment.

so simple, but so true: give people what they need, and some will choose to sit on their asses.No, most of the criticism of Schröder comes from the cutbacks he's making. We Germans love our welfare state.

This is sad. I thought this thread would be about the foreign endorsement of Merkel, which I oppose. I didn't want it to be about my views on Schroeder. They are self-explanatory. Of course, I bear some responsibility for steering the conversation. My remarks about Schroeder were, well, sensational. But I don't want to talk about him. I want to talk about how foreign governments are interferring in the discourse of German democracy.

Sorry, but I think you are under some serious misconception there. No foreign governments are interferring with German democracy, nor with the upcoming elections.
Internal affairs and the candidates ideas about them are what will decide the elections, so I seriously doubt even one German voter will take into account that Bush had talks with Merkel. If anything, this will be held against her by some.

It is being held against her by me,actually.But I´m more bearing a grudge about Merkel´s "let´s kiss Mr. Bush´s ass about Irak" talks during that particular issue than anything else.Just a minor issue for me,as it´s really just a symptom of the disease called "pointless ass-kissing" that Merkel possesses. I honestly can´t trust a person with that kind of mentality.
(OK,I wouldn´t´ve voted for her anyways,because of the internal works of her party,its program and the bullshit she´s been spouting,but I still think she´s much more of a Charakterschwein than Schröder...)

if you ever call me that again you might have to die :sniper:
(oh, but then, i just killed you already quite artfully and thoroughly in the other thread. no more need to worry.).
*quotes the shagadelic Austin Powers* "Yeah baby, yeah!" and my good ol' friend Beavis from the sugar-high episode and at the same time the Emperor in Episode III "Are you threatening me?"

This is sad. I thought this thread would be about the foreign endorsement of Merkel, which I oppose. I didn't want it to be about my views on Schroeder. They are self-explanatory. Of course, I bear some responsibility for steering the conversation. My remarks about Schroeder were, well, sensational. But I don't want to talk about him. I want to talk about how foreign governments are interferring in the discourse of German democracy.
You honestly believe any sane person here bases their sovereign vote on what a foreign government's representatives say?
Not me, and equally not my friends and family. On the contrary - it just adds resolve to my determination how I chose whom to elect. That's all.
They can talk all they want, I even appreciate it: It helps identifying the idiots who lead other nations and shows who I could rely on if need should be.
Simple as that.

(...)
Is it me or is Merkel a Thatcherite? And given the results of Thatcherism in the UK (massive increase in unemployment, gutted manual industry et al) it would seem Germany would suffer as badly if not worse.
Aha! Now we're getting somewhere.
She sure would like to create that impression, but she's two decades late and definitely does not have the class lady Thatcher had.
But that is exactly one of the reasons why I so vehemently oppose Merkel and her illusions about how to lead a nation of 82.5 million.
She says, from Monday (tomorrow) on, things will be better in Germany.
I say they won't with her at the helm. The rich will get richer, the poor will get poorer, the problems will increase, and honestly, should shit hit the fan in Germany, that leadress will make the wrong decisions.

It is being held against her by me,actually.But I´m more bearing a grudge about Merkel´s "let´s kiss Mr. Bush´s ass about Irak" talks during that particular issue than anything else.Just a minor issue for me,as it´s really just a symptom of the disease called "pointless ass-kissing" that Merkel possesses. I honestly can´t trust a person with that kind of mentality.
(OK,I wouldn´t´ve voted for her anyways,because of the internal works of her party,its program and the bullshit she´s been spouting,but I still think she´s much more of a Charakterschwein than Schröder...)
Oh yes. But while Schröder has a character that one can agree or disagree with - Merkel doesn't even show character publicly. But one can tell from how she treated her friends and colleagues in her own party of what she has in store for those she truly opposes.
And no, I don't trust her, either. That's why she won't get my vote today.

It is being held against her by me,actually.But I´m more bearing a grudge about Merkel´s "let´s kiss Mr. Bush´s ass about Irak" talks during that particular issue than anything else.Just a minor issue for me,as it´s really just a symptom of the disease called "pointless ass-kissing" that Merkel possesses. I honestly can´t trust a person with that kind of mentality.
(OK,I wouldn´t´ve voted for her anyways,because of the internal works of her party,its program and the bullshit she´s been spouting,but I still think she´s much more of a Charakterschwein than Schröder...)
Meh, Schröder's doing too much ass-kissing with the short man in Moscow for my taste...

The last thing we need are more Communists to fuck up the other half of Germany; if I'm correct, Germany's still spending a fortune to clean up that mess. Germany needs to change or their system is going to collapse.


I agree..without the cursing tho. Communism in theory works wonders, but it will never work in reality. People will always be susceptible to greed and human nature.

Yesterday or the day before I actually read an article about the election. I live in the United States so it wasn't like front page news exactly. the European parties are very confusing the names are not exactly what the party is trying to get across. Is the Christian Democrat Party a rightist party? And are they for reduceing the socilism in the country?

Open this and take a look:

http://stat.tagesschau.de/wahlarchiv/wid246/karte0.shtml

Edit: Press F5 and watch!

Yesterday or the day before I actually read an article about the election. I live in the United States so it wasn't like front page news exactly. the European parties are very confusing the names are not exactly what the party is trying to get across. Is the Christian Democrat Party a rightist party? And are they for reduceing the socilism in the country?CDU/CSU are the Center Right party. The FDP are the liberal (i.e. Center Left to Right). The SPD are the Social Democrats (Left - Center Left). The Greens are environmental (Left). The Linkspartei (Left Party) are democratic socialists (Left).
As for "reducing socialism", that depends on your definition of socialism. All four big parties are reforming the welfare state. The Linkspartei are the only ones that are playing mule.

CDU/CSU are the Center Right party. The FDP are the liberal (i.e. Center Left to Right). The SPD are the Social Democrats (Left - Center Left). The Greens are environmental (Left). The Linkspartei (Left Party) are democratic socialists (Left).
As for "reducing socialism", that depends on your definition of socialism. All four big parties are reforming the welfare state. The Linkspartei are the only ones that are playing mule.
Thanks, Laerod - I started a reply and forgot about it and then it was 2 hours later...

Edit: "replay is what I wrote, reply is what I meant!"

Thanks, Laerod - I started a replay and forgot about it and then it was 2 hours later...
I know what that's like :D
Edit: "replay is what I wrote, reply is what I meant!" I know what that's like too! :D

As I've posted in another thread... things would be much simpler in Germany right now if the FDP was a true modern liberal democrat party and not the neo-liberal/classic liberal bullshit that they are. A coalition with Schroeder's social-democrat party would be workable instead of impossible.

Germany is going to pass through some tough times if a strong majority cannot be forged.

Sorry, but I think you are under some serious misconception there. No foreign governments are interferring with German democracy, nor with the upcoming elections.
Internal affairs and the candidates ideas about them are what will decide the elections, so I seriously doubt even one German voter will take into account that Bush had talks with Merkel. If anything, this will be held against her by some.
Remember last time Schroder won the German election by simply stateing. Wir wollen nicht mit die Amerikaner kampfen in diesen imperialistischer krieg. Dieser Krieg ist falsch (talking about Iraq)

Remember last time Schroder won the German election by simply stateing. Wir wollen nicht mit die Amerikaner kampfen in diesen imperialistischer krieg. Dieser Krieg ist falsch (talking about Iraq)That has to do with the war and not with America...

Yeah but what I meant, was that Schroder kept his promise und die Wehrmacht kampfte nicht in der Krieg.
Aber was vill passieren wen (god forbid)A.Merkel ist in office, und der GWB ZAGT IHR "Frau komm. Heute kampfen wir gegen (zum Beischpiel) Luxembourg"
Was voll Sie sagen? Ich glaub dass ihre antwort will "Yes Master" sein.
Plus that she plans to cut down on pensions and social security.

Yeah but what I meant, was that Schroder kept his promise und die Wehrmacht kampfte nicht in der Krieg.
Aber was vill passieren wen (god forbid)A.Merkel ist in office, und der GWB ZAGT IHR "Frau komm. Heute kampfen wir gegen (zum Beischpiel) Luxembourg"
Was voll Sie sagen? Ich glaub dass ihre antwort will "Yes Master" sein.
Plus that she plans to cut down on pensions and social security.
Please use English... :(
Anyway, I think you're getting at Merkel being a total asskisser. While I don't doubt it, she knows that the German public is set against German participation in Iraq, and since GWB doesn't get to vote, she's been asskissing the German public by defusing her comment about Schröder to have said that they shouldn't have let Saddam know that Germany wouldn't involve itself until the war started. I doubt she'd be able to join in any "imperialist" wars, especially since the CDU would have to entertain at least one of the parties against wars within her government to become chancellor.

Edit: And there hasn't been a Wehrmacht in 60 years.

After some time of not being on NS, I just feel like today is worth a quick rant...

It may be worth noting that I like the SPD, but they have had a very bad time the past three years. I also would like to tell those that don't know that I study Economics, and that in many economic issues I've got some fairly neo-liberal opinions. And no, I didn't vote FDP.

CDU: Bugger²! The Kirchhoff Business was bad, and while Merkel didn't seem too bad, she was completely overshadowed by Old Man Schröder. I wonder whether their elite can keep their mouth shut about Merkel until a Government is formed. Perhaps the only real choice the CDU has now is with a Grand Coalition, and I for one don't even think it's as bad as people make it to be.

CSU: Goddammit I hate the Bavarians sometimes...Stoiber is still not saying anything definite, other than continuously reminding Merkel how well his party did. He's gonna be the first to fall Merkel in the back once the opportunity comes up.

SPD: I wished they would lose. I really did. They needed some time in opposition to find themselves and to smooth out the rifts that came up. I admire Müntefering for his work, although this was first and foremost about Schröder. If you can show me a better Politician, I'd be surprised. I don't think they'll talk to the Lefties, so again a Grand Coalition is the only way out. Neither Ampel nor Schwampel is gonna happen, the FDP is too confident for that now.

Greens: Hmmm, I think Joschka would be more comfortable in opposition, he always has been. Being Green is great, but it ain't helping with creating jobs etc, and so I never seriously considered them an alternative at this point. And I really think we need Nuclear Power.

FDP: Oh Boy. They won and they lost at the same time. I wonder how that feels. I usually am against Libertarians, but I thought they add something useful to the discussion this time. Now it looks like they might go into opposition again, after such a great result...funny how things turn out sometimes.

Linkspartei: If there is anything I hate more than arrogant Bavarians, it's frustrated Ossis. :( (I'm from HH-City by the way :p ) What in fuck's name were they thinking? This is embarassing Germany abroad and at home. I agree that the whole reunification thing should've been done much better, but that's Kohl's fault, not the SPD's. It's a good thing Gysi and Lafontaine don't get along and will tear each other apart...mark my words.

So I think a Grand Coalition is it...can be good (if they get it sorted out quick, and either Schröder or Merkel leaves the stage - you know Merkel is gonna blink first) or can be bad (if they only think about the next election in four years). Either way, they are gonna continue the reforms, the Apo already sits in Parliament...and in the end it's not Politics that creates jobs, it's people. So perhaps this is all irrelevant anyways.

But on the Social Market Economy, I recently thought to myself: What was the most successful time Germany had in history. After WWII? Perhaps, but then under Erhard's awesome policies there still was less of a safety net than there is today.
I would think it was Bismarck's Empire between 1871 and say 1910 or so. And maybe we should move our economic policies into that direction, with a small social safety net (workers were much better off then than they had been 30 years or so earlier), but with plenty of individualism there too. We don't have to take it to extremes (environmental & monopoly laws come to mind - they didn't have those back then), but one shouldn't say Germany is a socialist country on principle.

Meh, Schröder's doing too much ass-kissing with the short man in Moscow for my taste...

Short man in Moscow...Like that one :D

Thing is,I consider him the lesser of two evils of which I both didn´t vote for. Honestly,after these election results,I´d NEVER want Merkel at the head of a government.I mean,to come within an inch of LOSING an election that should have been a piece of cake just reeks of incompetance and totally justifies my opinion of the girl.

What I didn´t like was the high percentage of the Linkspartei.For somebody who´s just pacifying his ego,Oskar Lafontaine was quite successful.I would have preferred the votes he got went to greens and FDP,but maybe we´ll get the possibility of a green/FDP ruling coalition in the next elections.The way things´re going right now,it wouldn´t really surprise me and personally I think these election results are the best we´ve had in years in terms of the direction things are going.People are starting to trust the smaller parties,parties who still have idealists and not just power-mongers in them,even near their top ranks.What a politician needs is ideals,a well-meaning for the people and the country rather than a focus on his own power-base.Right now,I´d say it´s high time the idealists get their chance.I goddamn hope they do.

@Leonstein: about your CDU/CSU thing.Yeah,I don´t doubt Stoiber will stab Merkel in the back.That´d just be a prime example of the inner mechanics of the CDU/CSU,although they usually just kick out the good/competant people(Merz,anyone?) instead of the complete douchebags(Merkel,Kohl).On the whole,Merkel´s gotten a bit TOO powerful for the CDU/CSU and I think they were all for her falling flat on her face,albeit AFTER a clear majority and not before the election.Thing is,as much as she was completely incompetant during election and made a terrible mess outta things,she had help in getting there.I mean,all that "well-meaning" support from king Edmund she got...Hell, you´d have to be a complete idiot to trust your biggest political rival in the party, a guy who came very close to pwning Schröder during the last elections and a guy who´s so competant in inner-party maneuvering it´s almost scary.Sure,Stoiber´s an asshole and doesn´t give a fuck about anything apart from Bayern Über Alles(something that suites me just fine,as I live in Bavaria...),but Merkel apparently forgot that he has a head on his shoulders and carries a bit of wounded pride.He lost the last elections by a bare minimum and I bet he secretly wants Merkel to f.u.b.He gave her all the help she could get in that reguard,anyways.

Oh well,I´m still wondering how anybody can vote for a party that´s so busy sniping at each other instead of worrying about the more pressing concerns of our country.

Short man in Moscow...Like that one :DYeah, Schröder's already a shrimp and Putin somehow manages to beat him in diminutive stature... talk about a Napoleon-complex :p Thing is,I consider him the lesser of two evils of which I both didn´t vote for. Honestly,after these election results,I´d NEVER want Merkel at the head of a government.I mean,to come within an inch of LOSING an election that should have been a piece of cake just reeks of incompetance and totally justifies my opinion of the girl.And people tell me she won the election... :kopfschüttel:

So anybody (mainly you German friends) think Merkel and Schröder both have soiled themselves bad enough to leave the coalition building to others? Or new elections, or what now? Biting my nails here. 2-4 weeks of coalition negotiations (and that Dresden thing too); can't be good for the EU - or Germany for that matter.

oh hey, just wait 'till we re-vote because somebody filed complaint because of the dresden voting after they made the results public. bet on that one to happen :(

oh hey, just wait 'till we re-vote because somebody filed complaint because of the dresden voting after they made the results public. bet on that one to happen :(Voting law requires the results to be published. Reason being that it prevents someone from manipulating the results during the days of waiting.

After some time of not being on NS, I just feel like today is worth a quick rant...

It may be worth noting that I like the SPD, but they have had a very bad time the past three years. I also would like to tell those that don't know that I study Economics, and that in many economic issues I've got some fairly neo-liberal opinions. And no, I didn't vote FDP.

CDU: Bugger²! The Kirchhoff Business was bad, and while Merkel didn't seem too bad, she was completely overshadowed by Old Man Schröder. I wonder whether their elite can keep their mouth shut about Merkel until a Government is formed. Perhaps the only real choice the CDU has now is with a Grand Coalition, and I for one don't even think it's as bad as people make it to be.

CSU: Goddammit I hate the Bavarians sometimes...Stoiber is still not saying anything definite, other than continuously reminding Merkel how well his party did. He's gonna be the first to fall Merkel in the back once the opportunity comes up.

SPD: I wished they would lose. I really did. They needed some time in opposition to find themselves and to smooth out the rifts that came up. I admire Müntefering for his work, although this was first and foremost about Schröder. If you can show me a better Politician, I'd be surprised. I don't think they'll talk to the Lefties, so again a Grand Coalition is the only way out. Neither Ampel nor Schwampel is gonna happen, the FDP is too confident for that now.

Greens: Hmmm, I think Joschka would be more comfortable in opposition, he always has been. Being Green is great, but it ain't helping with creating jobs etc, and so I never seriously considered them an alternative at this point. And I really think we need Nuclear Power.

FDP: Oh Boy. They won and they lost at the same time. I wonder how that feels. I usually am against Libertarians, but I thought they add something useful to the discussion this time. Now it looks like they might go into opposition again, after such a great result...funny how things turn out sometimes.

Linkspartei: If there is anything I hate more than arrogant Bavarians, it's frustrated Ossis. :( (I'm from HH-City by the way :p ) What in fuck's name were they thinking? This is embarassing Germany abroad and at home. I agree that the whole reunification thing should've been done much better, but that's Kohl's fault, not the SPD's. It's a good thing Gysi and Lafontaine don't get along and will tear each other apart...mark my words.

So I think a Grand Coalition is it...can be good (if they get it sorted out quick, and either Schröder or Merkel leaves the stage - you know Merkel is gonna blink first) or can be bad (if they only think about the next election in four years). Either way, they are gonna continue the reforms, the Apo already sits in Parliament...and in the end it's not Politics that creates jobs, it's people. So perhaps this is all irrelevant anyways.

But on the Social Market Economy, I recently thought to myself: What was the most successful time Germany had in history. After WWII? Perhaps, but then under Erhard's awesome policies there still was less of a safety net than there is today.
I would think it was Bismarck's Empire between 1871 and say 1910 or so. And maybe we should move our economic policies into that direction, with a small social safety net (workers were much better off then than they had been 30 years or so earlier), but with plenty of individualism there too. We don't have to take it to extremes (environmental & monopoly laws come to mind - they didn't have those back then), but one shouldn't say Germany is a socialist country on principle.

financial freedom -- fosterer of the entrepreneurial spirit -- is best for creating jobs. (quick interjection)

if germany wants to cut its unemployment rate and (overall) improve its economy, one method to do so would be to cut some welfare benefits (or shorten the time available for non-handicapped welfare recipients to collect said welfare) and slightly decrease taxes for everyone... this will light a fire under many of the unemployed to get out and find jobs... and with lower taxes, businesses would be able to offer more jobs and entrepreneurs would be more inclined to open new businesses (also leading to more jobs).

According to at least 1 news source that I have found so far, apparently Merkel has asked the party to vote on her leadership tomorrow!
I presume that this will be the newly elected CDU Bundesrat members, but I don't know if she was willing to invite other candidates to oppose her (it appears so).

I wonder how angry they are at her for the late flop, or if, as she obviously hopes, they will all rally bhind her to make her look as strong as Schroder.

May we live in interesting times......

Voting law requires the results to be published. Reason being that it prevents someone from manipulating the results during the days of waiting
makes sense, though i never heard of that one. only heard that fucked-up reasoning of the federal court that you can file a complaint only after the vote took place.. :headbang:

anyhow- voting laws alo require all voters to have equal information basis (theoretically) when voting (oh freak, this is hard for me to put it in neglish) and this one is definitely violated.

According to at least 1 news source that I have found so far, apparently Merkel has asked the party to vote on her leadership tomorrow!
I presume that this will be the newly elected CDU Bundesrat members, but I don't know if she was willing to invite other candidates to oppose her (it appears so).

I wonder how angry they are at her for the late flop, or if, as she obviously hopes, they will all rally bhind her to make her look as strong as Schroder.

May we live in interesting times......Bundestag, not Bundesrat ;)
I think it was the party in general to see if they want to can her for snatching defeat from the jaws of victory...

oh how much i'm looking forward for her to be chewed out yet another time, this time by her own party.. *evil grin*

makes sense, though i never heard of that one. only heard that fucked-up reasoning of the federal court that you can file a complaint only after the vote took place.. :headbang:

anyhow- voting laws alo require all voters to have equal information basis (theoretically) when voting (oh freak, this is hard for me to put it in neglish) and this one is definitely violated.I heard about that one before the court decided not to decide until after the election. Law says it has to be published, so there's not much that can be done against it.

[QUOTE=Laerod]Bundestag, not Bundesrat ;)


Yeah, you know what I mean. Just getting excited. Teehee.
Any competition likely or do you think they will wait in the wings and se how she does? It's not as if she doesn't have any enemies...

Yeah, you know what I mean. Just getting excited. Teehee.
Any competition likely or do you think they will wait in the wings and se how she does? It's not as if she doesn't have any enemies...
No clue... the current news topic is the former Schwampel coalition, now dubbed Jamaica coalition...

Yeah although two quotes I've seen this evening....

"But "we're not ready to function as an auxiliary engine for the neoliberal politics of black-yellow," said Greens leader Reinhard Bütikofer"

and better (but paraphrasing as I can't remember where I saw it)

"I can't imagine myself or Ms Merkel with dreadlocks. It doesn't seem likely to me" - Joschka Fischer

Surely that would be suicide for the Greens?

Yeah although two quotes I've seen this evening....

"But "we're not ready to function as an auxiliary engine for the neoliberal politics of black-yellow," said Greens leader Reinhard Bütikofer"

and better (but paraphrasing as I can't remember where I saw it)

"I can't imagine myself or Ms Merkel with dreadlocks. It doesn't seem likely to me" - Joschka Fischer

Surely that would be suicide for the Greens?Angela Merkel in dreadlocks... :D *let's that picture sink in* I've seen depictions of her with a whip and in black leather, but this seems a notch higher... :D

I doubt it would kill the Greens unless they fail to get enough of their policies through.

*please* do not promote any more of this merkel-with-dreads idea or i'll be bound to cut mine off and that would be a shame

and i am *so* very glad they finally got off the "schwampel" word 'caus eit was just..awful. i'm not in love with "jamaican" eithe rbut at least it doesn't sound like..you're throwing up while saying it.