NationStates Jolt Archive

I received this in my email this morning and thought I would share it witn my NS friends.

BILL MAHER'S CLOSE ON HIS SHOW from last week:

"Mr. President, this job can't be fun for you any more. There's no
more money to spend--you used up all of that. You can't start another
war because you used up the army. And now, darn the luck, the rest of
your term has become the Bush family nightmare: helping poor people.
Listen to your Mom. The cupboard's bare, the credit cards maxed out.
No one's speaking to you. Mission accomplished.

"Now it's time to do what you've always done best: lose interest and
walk away. Like you did with your military service and the oil
company and the baseball team. It's time. Time to move on and try
the next fantasy job. How about cowboy or space man? Now I know what
you're saying: there's so many other things that you as President
could involve yourself in. Please don't. I know, I know. There's a
lot left to do. There's a war with Venezuela. Eliminating the sales
tax on yachts. Turning the space program over to the church. And
Social Security to Fannie Mae. Giving embryos the vote.

"But, Sir, none of that is going to happen now. Why? Because you
govern like Billy Joel drives. You've performed so poorly I'm
surprised that you haven't given yourself a medal. You're a
catastrophe that walks like a man. Herbert Hoover was a shitty
president, but even he never conceded an entire city to rising water
and snakes.

"On your watch, we've lost almost all of our allies, the surplus,
four airliners, two trade centers, a piece of the Pentagon and the
City of New Orleans. Maybe you're just not lucky. I'm not saying you
don't love this country. I'm just wondering how much worse it could
be if you were on the other side.

"So, yes, God does speak to you. What he is saying is: 'Take a hint.'

Kinda bittersweet/funny/sad?

Bill Maher fucking rocks. That letter brightened my impossibly boring morning.

Well Bill has the same right to an opinion as anyone else. And I've got the same right to ignore his, as everyone else does to ignore mine. He's an entertainer -- these monologues make good entertainment. When he occupies some position of responsibility, maybe then, I'll take him seriously.
Wow, not taking seriously opinions that disagree with your own will certainly add to your credibility. :rolleyes:

I received this in my email this morning and thought I would share it witn my NS friends.

BILL MAHER'S CLOSE ON HIS SHOW from last week:

"Mr. President, this job can't be fun for you any more. There's no
more money to spend--you used up all of that. You can't start another
war because you used up the army. And now, darn the luck, the rest of
your term has become the Bush family nightmare: helping poor people.
Listen to your Mom. The cupboard's bare, the credit cards maxed out.
No one's speaking to you. Mission accomplished.
[cut]

Kinda bittersweet/funny/sad?
Well Bill has the same right to an opinion as anyone else. And I've got the same right to ignore his, as everyone else does to ignore mine. He's an entertainer -- these monologues make good entertainment. When he occupies some position of responsibility, maybe then, I'll take him seriously.

Whooooa, time warp!

I would love the opportunity to vote for Bill Mahr in a presidential election.

at least this entertainer isn't a bigot like Rush Limbaugh


Maher's got his opinions, but at least he doesn't flat out lie like Limbaugh
and that nazi michael savage. yes savage is a fascist.


good thing real republicans don't actually listen to those 2.

at least this entertainer isn't a bigot like Rush Limbaugh


Maher's got his opinions, but at least he doesn't flat out lie like Limbaugh
and that nazi michael savage. yes savage is a fascist.


good thing real republicans don't actually listen to those 2.
You say "real" Republicans.... do you mean they aren't true Republicans? They're too far right or something?

I would love the opportunity to vote for Bill Mahr in a presidential election.

it's easy to rail on someone when he's not their to trash your criticism... it's another entirely when a real politician is there to thwart your (socialist, in maher's case) objectives.

SO I HOPE (really) that he remains in the entertainment business... he is funny.

it's easy to rail on someone when he's not their to trash your criticism... it's another entirely when a real politician is there to thwart your (socialist, in maher's case) objectives.

SO I HOPE (really) that he remains in the entertainment business... he is funny.
I seriously doubt any politician is going to beat Mahr in a debate. Maybe he'd lose at the polls, but definately not in debate. He's quick, funny, and well informed.

Bill Maher and Jon Stewart - the Presidential dream team.

...if you're poor, unemployed and have no wish to work.

it's easy to rail on someone when he's not their to trash your criticism... it's another entirely when a real politician is there to thwart your (socialist, in maher's case) objectives.

SO I HOPE (really) that he remains in the entertainment business... he is funny.

Bill Maher has stated time and again on Larry King for one that he is a strong supporter of the Libertarian school of thought, hardly a socialist. I don't always agree with everything he says, but he sure is right about a lot of things too.

it's easy to rail on someone when he's not their to trash your criticism... it's another entirely when a real politician is there to thwart your (socialist, in maher's case) objectives.


Of course. Anyone who disagrees with you, or says something you don't like is a socialist. :rolleyes:

That was absolutely great. :) Thanks for the chuckles.

I wish Bush would resign already. Then we'd get 3 years of Cheney, and he'd teach everyone a thing or two.

Bill Maher has stated time and again on Larry King for one that he is a strong supporter of the Libertarian school of thought, hardly a socialist. I don't always agree with everything he says, but he sure is right about a lot of things too.
I think he just supports the drug legalization part of the party line. I don't think he's all that fond of the rest of the implications of personal responsibility and limited government.

I think he just supports the drug legalization part of the party line. I don't think he's all that fond of the rest of the implications of personal responsibility and limited government.

Actually, yes he does. He is very much a Libertarian.

Actually, yes he does. He is very much a Libertarian.

Let's see, he supports: government regulation of corporations, foreign aid, public schooling, environmentalism, minimum wage laws, gun control, income redistribution through higher taxation, socialized health care, price controls on pharmacueticals and contols on energy imports by govenrment.

Obviously a hard line libertarian.

it's easy to rail on someone when he's not their to trash your criticism... it's another entirely when a real politician is there to thwart your (socialist, in maher's case) objectives.

SO I HOPE (really) that he remains in the entertainment business... he is funny.


Ummm, Bill Maher is a dedicated Libertarian - not a socialist.

Actually, yes he does. He is very much a Libertarian.
I don't recall many libertarians disparaging any reduction in taxes or privatization of government programs that just waste money...

Eliminating the salestax on yachts. Turning the space program over to the church. And Social Security to Fannie Mae.


Additionally, this bio from the wikipedia doesn't sound too libertarian, either...

He also favors government regulation of corporations, foreign aid, public schooling, a ban on homeschooling, campaign finance reform (which he has since repudiated, saying "OK, we tried it, it didn't work"), environmentalism, supports affirmative action, supports minimum wage laws, supports moderate gun control, supports income redistribution through higher taxation as a means for the wealthy to pay for some of the advantages they enjoy as Americans, supports government funding for abortion, supports equal rights for homosexuals, and supported Ralph Nader in the 2000 U.S. presidential election.

I had bolded everything contradictory to libertarian politics, but it was almost everything. I think the only common ground we share is that all men are created equal.
But whatever floats your boat...

Let's see, he supports: government regulation of corporations, foreign aid, public schooling, environmentalism, minimum wage laws, gun control, income redistribution through higher taxation, socialized health care, price controls on pharmacueticals and contols on energy imports by govenrment.

Obviously a hard line libertarian.
He's a social-liberal libertarian. In other words, he likes the sound of the word libertarian, but not the commitment. So true of those celebrities, isn't it? All show and no substance.

He's a social-liberal libertarian. In other words, he likes the sound of the word libertarian, but not the commitment. So true of those celebrities, isn't it? All show and no substance.

I would say he's centre-leftist, is all. He's just anti-drug law and pro gay marriage. In fact, given some of the things he has said about overweight people and electric cars, he can have quite the authoritarian opinions when it suits him.

Edit: And he is a board member of PETA, which put's him firmly in the assclown camp.

Bill Maher fucking rocks. That letter brightened my impossibly boring morning.
Yes, I'm sure it did, as anything putting the US down or making Her look bad always seems to do for you.

Bill Maher and Jon Stewart - the Presidential dream team.

ha, i was thinking the same thing...

That is NOt contrary to being a Libertarian, but rather in line with being a decent human being.

Ooooh... Sounds like someone is playing the "If you don't agree with me, you're not a good human being" card!

Th point being thathe recognizes the propensity for Bush to simply shift the tax burden down the pay scale. He's not against affordable tax breaks for all, he's against targetted tax breaks for the rich.

That is NOt contrary to being a Libertarian, but rather in line with being a decent human being.

Rubbish. He supports a progressive income tax. It has nothing to to with Bush and is completely contrary to a libertarian view point.

I don't recall many libertarians disparaging any reduction in taxes or privatization of government programs that just waste money...


Th point being thathe recognizes the propensity for Bush to simply shift the tax burden down the pay scale. He's not against affordable tax breaks for all, he's against targetted tax breaks for the rich.

That is NOt contrary to being a Libertarian, but rather in line with being a decent human being.


Additionally, this bio from the wikipedia doesn't sound too libertarian, either...

<snip>
But whatever floats your boat...

So Wiki is now the official source of information on celebrity political points of view is it?

Yes, I'm sure it did, as anything putting the US down or making Her look bad always seems to do for you.

Where did Bill put down the US, or make the US look bad in the first post? Please point it out cuz I missed it.

Attacking the presidents policies does not equal attacking the US. If you think otherwise please explain how, instead of making personal attacks on me for having an opinion that differs from yours. Which I have to say pre-emptively because I am well aware of your history.

He's a social-liberal libertarian. In other words, he likes the sound of the word libertarian, but not the commitment. So true of those celebrities, isn't it? All show and no substance.

Well said. Dissapointing whores,mostly.

And I dont mean to degrade prostitutes.

Yes, I'm sure it did, as anything putting the US down or making Her look bad always seems to do for you.
I've never heard Bill Mahr put down the US. He puts down certain people, and those who vote for them, but not the nation itself.

I've never heard Bill Mahr put down the US. He puts down certain people, and those who vote for them, but not the nation itself.

For some people these things are synonymous.

Rubbish. He supports a progressive income tax. It has nothing to to with Bush and is completely contrary to a libertarian view point.
It has to do with Bush in that Bush made the tax scale less progressive.

He's a social-liberal libertarian. In other words, he likes the sound of the word libertarian, but not the commitment. So true of those celebrities, isn't it? All show and no substance.

Actually, it sounds like he's a principled old-school conservative, meaning in this case that his conservatism stems from something other than a kneejerk aversion to high marginal income tax rates.

How is that non-libertarian? I bold all the points that can fit in with/do not repudiate the libertarian ideology.

He also favors government regulation of corporations, foreign aid, public schooling, a ban on homeschooling, campaign finance reform (which he has since repudiated, saying "OK, we tried it, it didn't work"), environmentalism, supports affirmative action, supports minimum wage laws, supports moderate gun control, supports income redistribution through higher taxation as a means for the wealthy to pay for some of the advantages they enjoy as Americans, supports government funding for abortion, supports equal rights for homosexuals, and supported Ralph Nader in the 2000 U.S. presidential election.

He's a social-liberal libertarian. In other words, he likes the sound of the word libertarian, but not the commitment. So true of those celebrities, isn't it? All show and no substance.
Thank goodness! For awhile there I was tempted to nuke the nearest libertarian! :D

Actually, it sounds like he's a principled old-school conservative, meaning in this case that his conservatism stems from something other than a kneejerk aversion to high marginal income tax rates.
Yes, but he's also a libertarian (socially speaking anyway). Economically conservative, socially libertarian. Thus, in our terms, a left-winger. Technically it's still libertarian. :D

It has to do with Bush in that Bush made the tax scale less progressive.

Either you buy into the ideal that progressive rates are fair because of the concept of marginal utility, or you don't. If it's the former, then you are not a libertarian. If it is the latter, any amount of progressive taxation is unfair regardless of who sets tax policy. It has about as much to do with Bush as it has to do with Jesus. What's more just opposing Bush doesn't make you a libertarian.

And if he is such a libertarian, why doesn't he ever have libertarians on his crappy shows?

.

And if he is such a libertarian, why doesn't he ever have libertarians on his crappy shows?


He be more of an ass by association.

Either you buy into the ideal that progressive rates are fair because of the concept of marginal utility, or you don't. If it's the former, then you are not a libertarian. If it is the latter, any amount of progressive taxation is unfair regardless of who sets tax policy. It has about as much to do with Bush as it has to do with Jesus. What's more just opposing Bush doesn't make you a libertarian.

And if he is such a libertarian, why doesn't he ever have libertarians on his crappy shows?
I never argued that Mahr was a libertarian. I was just responding to the part of your post that said that his stance on progressive taxation had nothing to do with Bush. It does have to do with Bush because Mahr is one of his biggest critics in part because Bush has made the tax code much less progressive.

I would say he is a libertarian on many issues but not all, but i would still say he is a libertarian overall.

Does his political label really matter?

I wouldn't have respect for Bill Maher if he didn't have individual opinions about things and merely towed his party line. Who among you holds every single agenda of your party (if you have one) up as your own as well? And if you do, why don't you try thinking for yourself like Bill?

Either you buy into the ideal that progressive rates are fair because of the concept of marginal utility, or you don't. If it's the former, then you are not a libertarian. If it is the latter, any amount of progressive taxation is unfair regardless of who sets tax policy. It has about as much to do with Bush as it has to do with Jesus. What's more just opposing Bush doesn't make you a libertarian.

And if he is such a libertarian, why doesn't he ever have libertarians on his crappy shows?

I think you mistake libertarians for anarcho-capitalists, which Bill Mahar is definately not, but who have in large part hijacked the title of libertarians to make themselves sound more socially palatable.

Bill Mahar like any libertarian is an adamant believer in freedom from government intrusion into private concerns: abortion, marihuana and drug legalization, etc. He is also a staunch believer in a free market system, the right to make money, own property, etc. Moreover, he is a fierce critic of government waste and profligacy. In that sense, yes he is a libertarian. Unlike anarchists, however, Mahar does believe that the government 1) is not always the problem, and 2) can often serve as a solution to problems. Specifically, it is the enforcement of federal mandates that keeps the market free, because without such protection history has shown that markets can quickly slide into monopolies/oligarchies.

Now, maybe that differs from your finely parsed view of how "libertarians," or in more accurate terms anarchists, operate. It's probably because you are from the new breed that grew up hearing nothing but Reagonomic spin on how economies ought to work. Mahar did not. There were still libertarians before Reagan, even if they didn't agree with all his economic policies. As such, it's not inconsistent to say call Mahar a libertarian even though he doesn't believe that government should be reduced to a size where it can be dragged into the bathroom and drowned in the tub.

Mrs. Maher's lil boy, Billy, is a total fracking idiot! LOL!

Bill Maher has stated time and again on Larry King for one that he is a strong supporter of the Libertarian school of thought, hardly a socialist. I don't always agree with everything he says, but he sure is right about a lot of things too.
Larry King, there is one hard-core, investigative journalist.

You say "real" Republicans.... do you mean they aren't true Republicans? They're too far right or something?



There are Republicans who are scared s**tless of Bush.

The Patriot Act. They're like, wtf?


And there are some, local newspaper colmun writers even,
republicans who take an old quote "I didn't leave the Republican party,
they left me."

Fiscal conservatism, the war, patriot.
We disagree on a lot of things, but those items....

Th point being thathe recognizes the propensity for Bush to simply shift the tax burden down the pay scale. He's not against affordable tax breaks for all, he's against targetted tax breaks for the rich.

That is NOt contrary to being a Libertarian, but rather in line with being a decent human being.



So Wiki is now the official source of information on celebrity political points of view is it?
Official, no. Convenient, consolidated, and accurate? I think so. Tell me which of those positions was wrong.

He be more of an ass by association.
He did have Harry Browne on. It was a big disappointment for those of us that thought Harry was a real alternative to Bush and Gore.

Let's see, he supports: government regulation of corporations,

Obviously a hard line libertarian.



let's see. libertarian.
that means gov't hands off or something right?

well, if you are talking corporations.
they are legal entities that get a license
from the government that gives them permission
to operate with certain privaleges.

so,
of course, of course
they can be regulated and you can be a libertarian.


or, if you're really talking less gov't,
how about revoking all corporate charters.
no gov't sanctioned limited liability.
corporate charters are law.
we want less law...revoke all corporate charters.
they are not a right, but a privalege.

a corporation is first and foremost
a legal privalege.
don't confuse it with a business.
a corporation can be a business, but not necessarily.
it is first a legal entity.

Official, no. Convenient, consolidated, and accurate? I think so. Tell me which of those positions was wrong.

Frankly, unlike both yourself and Wiki, I don't presume to know the finest details of all of Mr Maher's opinions on all subjects.

Nor do general statments as noted in that entry provide the neccessary context by which to attempt to fit a person into a particular pigeon hole.

Nor, for that matter, does ANYONE generally fit into a single defined political category if you attempt to apply a stringent dictionary definition to them. At best, you might make a statement that the preponderence of views of someone indicates that they tend to fit into a particular group of loosely affiliated people who do not neccessarily share identical views on all subjects.



In other words, this seems to be a lame attempt to split semantics hairs in order to label and then marginalize a particular person on your part.

Yes, I'm sure it did, as anything putting the US down or making Her look bad always seems to do for you.
Once more with feeling:

Critisizing the President is not bashing America. It could be argued that the whole point of free speech and the First Amendment is to insure that we can, and should critisize the president. It is in fact a very American and patriotic act. I'm suprized that this is so difficult for you. Do you really think you where fighting for our right to bow down to the president? What the hell was the revolution for, then? Boggles the mind.

And no, it's not there to just critisize Democratic presidents, as it seems it might be your other interpertation.

Mrs. Maher's lil boy, Billy, is a total fracking idiot! LOL!
Deep. Insightful. Not at all knee jerk dismissal of those who disagree with you. That would, of course, be a characteristic of the left-as you so often point out. LOL indeed.

How is that non-libertarian? I bold all the points that can fit in with/do not repudiate the libertarian ideology.

government regulation of corporations[/b].



OH, regs on corporations?
That's not against libertarian ideology either.

At least, less gov't on people's lives, I thought it to be.

corporations are legal entities.

you get a license to drive a car?
and have certain laws to abide by for driving, right?
do you want to get rid of these driving laws?

it is exactly, exactly the same thing.

if you incorporate, you get a charter, i.e. license
from the state to operate with certain privaleges.
You operate under certain laws.
These privaleges and the charter can be revoked.

Once more with feeling:

Critisizing the President is not bashing America. It could be argued that the whole point of free speech and the First Amendment is to insure that we can, and should critisize the president. It is in fact a very American and patriotic act. I'm suprized that this is so difficult for you. Do you really think you where fighting for our right to bow down to the president? What the hell was the revolution for, then? Boggles the mind.


One might even add: What is second amendments for, if one cannot criticize the US government?

I thought the whole point of "the right to bear arms" was when you had to take steps beyond criticizing the government to taking direct action against your government.

One might even add: What is second amendments for, if one cannot criticize the US government?

I thought the whole point of "the right to bear arms" was when you had to take steps beyond criticizing the government to taking direct action against your government.
I think it was more along the lines of keeping them from taking direct action against you.