NationStates Jolt Archive

I disagree. I think oppression goes both ways and in alot of ways, men are more oppressed. I am very disappointed that there is ONLY feminism.

Maybe this is just a gender confused girl living a male body talking, ignore me if you dont agree.


Originally posted by Xiney


My friend was complainning about how she wished she was a boy sometimes
guys wear boxers under jeans, why can't I?



and than I said.


and you can get away with it (wearing boxers)
A guy cant get away with wearing a skirt in public.
Why would you wish to be a boy when you can do everything a boy can do in public?

For example:

You dont have to wear make up if you dont want to. But you can wear make up if you want to, anytime anywhere , whatever color you want.
you can have short hair and no one would raise an eyebrow
you can wear a male shirt and no one gives a shit
you dont have to wear heels , you can wear any regular sport shoes.
You can wear a tie and thats "fashionable" but you dont have to wear one.
Hell, you can even go into the men bathroom and you wont be sued as a pervert.
You dont know how lucky you have it.
Anytime you face sexism, you have the whole women movement backing you up in the name of eqaulity.
But theres no equality for males.


As a woman, you have flexibility that a male can never ever dream of having.

Yes, gender roles screw everyone. However, the traditionally accepted gender roles for women are either submissive or bitch, which causes them to be looked down on or ostracized.

and men cant be anything other than be the strong silent type or he will be looked down on or ostracized.

Problem is most of this consists of men oppressing eachother. I haven't seen statistics about it, but I would bet that more men are homophobic than women. I've heard that a higher percentage of gays than lesbians are so because they're forced to be by genetics. I don't know why, but men have much more drive to assert their gender than women do. As far as I know it could be natural, rather than societal. In any case, its the guys that ostracize gays/metrosexuals. Women love them. So its self-oppression.

are women sexually attracted to feminine men? I dont really think so. And so what if these men are not oppressed by women, they are still oppressed by the society. Their sufferings are just as valid as the women's but nobody really ever care about those men.

If I may though, you are talking about fassion. As a guy, you can choose just about any job field you would like, without getting demeaned for it. You have more of a chance to rise to managerial level, or get elected for office. You also might be paid more (though this is becoming less common). If you choose not to marry or have a family, no one really cares. If you do have a family and choose to keep working, you are lauded and not condemed. If you have no domestic skills, it is acceptable as opposed to somehow not being fit as a wife or mother. If you dislike children, people are not shocked. You don't have to define yourself in terms of your wife and family.

It's not just being able to wear what you want to, it is a little bit more than that. Real feminist BTW are fighting for gender equality though, where both are accepted as equal.

are women sexually attracted to feminine men? I dont really think so.

Some are. Some aren't. Just like some men tend to be attracted to assertive women and some men are more attracted to shy women.

Transvestites date women.

If I may though, you are talking about fassion. As a guy, you can choose just about any job field you would like,without getting demeaned for it. You have more of a chance to rise to managerial level, or get elected for office. You also might be paid more (though this is becoming less common). If you choose not to marry or have a family, no one really cares. If you do have a family and choose to keep working, you are lauded and not condemed. If you have no domestic skills, it is acceptable as opposed to somehow not being fit as a wife or mother. If you dislike children, people are not shocked. You don't have to define yourself in terms of your wife and family.

It's not just being able to wear what you want to, it is a little bit more than that. Real feminist BTW are fighting for gender equality though, where both are accepted as equal.

Its not just about fashion. Its about gender identity and presentation. Clothings REFLECT your personality and i think it is an important form of expression. It is an art, it can play a huge part in one's identity.
what about a man who wants to be a caregiver or an elementary school teacher? I believe that he would be accused or thought of as a child molestor by *some* parents or at least some parents would not be comfortable with that.
what if he doesnt want to work as an administrator ? Why do people assume that jobs that make the most money are the best? maybe some guys dont care earning the most money or having the highest position.

Some are. Some aren't. Just like some men tend to be attracted to assertive women and some men are more attracted to shy women.

Transvestites date women.


Most women are attracted to masculine men. Women can be assertive and submissive depending on the time of the day.

are women sexually attracted to feminine men? I dont really think so. And so what if these men are not oppressed by women, they are still oppressed by the society. Their sufferings are just as valid as the women's but nobody really ever care about those men.

Not sexually (well sometimes in the case of metros), but definitely socially. And I agree the oppression is societal, but the point is its more a situation of masculine men suppressing feminine men. It's not the same sort of thing as the oppression women claim to get. It's more like how other women will ostracize a woman for being a "slut", a problem most feminists are not concerned with.

I disagree. I think oppression goes both ways and in alot of ways, men are more oppressed. I am very disappointed that there is ONLY feminism.
There isnt only feminism.

Anytime you face sexism, you have the whole women movement backing you up in the name of eqaulity.
But theres no equality for males.
That's not true.

I'm somewhat suspicious of those who have the time and energy to complain that 'there are women's rights groups but not men's rights groups' on an internet chat forum, but apparently dont have the time or energy to find out that there are such groups for men... :rolleyes:

Most women are attracted to masculine men. Women can be assertive and submissive depending on the time of the day.

Really? Is that why so many women despise the jock types - arguably the most "masculine" men?

Some women are attracted to very masculine men. Some are attracted to feminine men - which is what I asume you might call metrosexuals, for the mots part. Some women want a sensitive man who can cry. Others don't. Some women (like me) are attracted to men who can neither be said to be especially masculine or feminine.

If you put it all on a spectrum, you might find that most of the attraction was grouped somewhere towards the more masculine side (although probably not at the very end). However, you would also find that most men are more masculine than feminine. So it probably all balances out.

what about a man who wants to be a caregiver or an elementary school teacher? I believe that he would be accused or thought of as a child molestor by *some* parents and some parents would not be comfortable with that.
what if he doesnt want to work as an administrator ? Why do people assume that jobs that make the most money are the best? maybe some guys dont care earning the most money or having the highest position.
Oh I didn't say that there are not jobs that men get weird looks if they are in (from personal experiance even), but my point is that there are far more jobs more open to men than women. Also, your argument is that men are more opressed than women, which is what I was countering.

If I may though, you are talking about fassion. As a guy, you can choose just about any job field you would like, without getting demeaned for it. You have more of a chance to rise to managerial level, or get elected for office. You also might be paid more (though this is becoming less common). If you choose not to marry or have a family, no one really cares. If you do have a family and choose to keep working, you are lauded and not condemed. If you have no domestic skills, it is acceptable as opposed to somehow not being fit as a wife or mother. If you dislike children, people are not shocked. You don't have to define yourself in terms of your wife and family.

It's not just being able to wear what you want to, it is a little bit more than that. Real feminist BTW are fighting for gender equality though, where both are accepted as equal.

Most of these are also almost always true for women. You can't base your view of society on its most backward members.

Not sexually (well sometimes in the case of metros), but definitely socially. And I agree the oppression is societal, but the point is its more a situation of masculine men suppressing feminine men. It's not the same sort of thing as the oppression women claim to get. It's more like how other women will ostracize a woman for being a "slut", a problem most feminists are not concerned with.


So i think it is actually a mistake to think that men only oppress women. Its not so simple like that. Its more masculine men oppressing women and feminine men. I wish we could look into that more instead of only focusing soley on how women are being discriminated against.

So it was my mistake to say that men are more oppressed than women. Maybe feminine men are more oppressed than women, they face both discrimination by other men and women.

This woman is very much attracted to feminine men, and if I can get him in a skirt so much the better, but then I like my women on the butch side too... I love being truly Bi!!!! :D

I love the truely Bi people not the OH i only want men to be masculine and women to be feminine. lol.

Hell no..lol love the fringes... besides why choose one or the other when you can have the best of both in one person ;)

Most of these are also almost always true for women. You can't base your view of society on its most backward members.
They are? Please show me then:
As a guy, you can choose just about any job field you would like, without getting demeaned for it. The women scientists, engineers, mathmaticians, buisnesswomen, politicians, and so on, in droves, and who have not been kidded about playing with the boys, or who have not felt that they HAD to.

You have more of a chance to rise to managerial level, or get elected for office. And where are the women owners and CEOs? Where is the female President of the United States, or VP, or better representation in Congress, and Congresional leadership possitions (if memory serves, the current minority leader in the house is the first woman to hold the post), and of course we have just lost half of the female representation on SCOTUS.

If you choose not to marry or have a family, no one really cares. If you do have a family and choose to keep working, you are lauded and not condemed. How many political leaders have stood in front of us and said that life would be better if mothers stayed at home where they belong? How many articles in newspapers, editorials, and so on condem those working moms for having for put their children in daycare?

If you dislike children, people are not shocked. How many times on this forum alone have we heard about the maternal feelings all mothers and women are supposed to have?

You don't have to define yourself in terms of your wife and family. How many times do I still see things addressed to Mr. and Mrs. Husband's name? How many women still change their last names after marriage. How many times do you get introduced to so and so, the wife of, the mother of...?

So please, show me.

Its not just about fashion. Its about gender identity and presentation. Clothings REFLECT your personality and i think it is an important form of expression. It is an art, it can play a huge part in one's identity.
what about a man who wants to be a caregiver or an elementary school teacher? I believe that he would be accused or thought of as a child molestor by *some* parents or at least some parents would not be comfortable with that.
what if he doesnt want to work as an administrator ? Why do people assume that jobs that make the most money are the best? maybe some guys dont care earning the most money or having the highest position.

Wow, there's people like that? shame on them - the best teachers I've had have been men. Male teachers seem to be very adaptive and resourceful.

At least, the ones I had were. That of course isn't to say the female teachers I had weren't good. In fact, I'd award the 'best knows the course' to one of the female teachers I had. She too, was a little uncompromising, but had a great sense of humour. She knew how to defuse the troublemakers, and wasn't afraid of making jokes about them in class. Made for an excellent learning environment, I might add.

They are? Please show me then:
As a guy, you can choose just about any job field you would like, without getting demeaned for it. The women scientists, engineers, mathmaticians, buisnesswomen, politicians, and so on, in droves, and who have not been kidded about playing with the boys, or who have not felt that they HAD to.

You have more of a chance to rise to managerial level, or get elected for office. And where are the women owners and CEOs? Where is the female President of the United States, or VP, or better representation in Congress, and Congresional leadership possitions (if memory serves, the current minority leader in the house is the first woman to hold the post), and of course we have just lost half of the female representation on SCOTUS.

If you choose not to marry or have a family, no one really cares. If you do have a family and choose to keep working, you are lauded and not condemed. How many political leaders have stood in front of us and said that life would be better if mothers stayed at home where they belong? How many articles in newspapers, editorials, and so on condem those working moms for having for put their children in daycare?

If you dislike children, people are not shocked. How many times on this forum alone have we heard about the maternal feelings all mothers and women are supposed to have?

You don't have to define yourself in terms of your wife and family. How many times do I still see things addressed to Mr. and Mrs. Husband's name? How many women still change their last names after marriage. How many times do you get introduced to so and so, the wife of, the mother of...?


So please, show me.

Surprisingly enough, I believe I can address all of these:

1. Like I said, just because 0.01% of the population makes fun of women in academics doesn't mean we should ignore the 99.99% that don't.
2. There is unequal representation at the present time. It takes decades to rise through the ranks. Even now many more women are in these positions than have ever been before. The women starting their careers today have what is very likely an equal chance to get to upper management. As for politics, how many people you would ever meet, male or female, could become VP, Prez, even senator? The culture up at the top is a troglodyte one. That's not societal oppression, that's political oppression.
3. Funny enough, I haven't run into any of these articles, speeches, etc. Might be I'm not paying attention, but I think my mom (Director of Labeling and Detection Technologies at Molecular Probes) would have pointed them out.
4. Again, I haven't run into any such posts.
5. The first is explained by the second. And yes, they sometimes address things to women who have not changed their name. They also switch last and first names, horribly misspell names, and generally flub things up. They're not sending things to people, they're sending things to names, and they get names wrong. As for the third, just about as often as I'm introduced to so-and-so, someone's dad or husband. It depends who you meet first.