NationStates Jolt Archive


My, my, my how times have changed.

The Nazz
16-09-2005, 02:52
And for the better. While surfing through the many blogs I peruse each day, I came across this at a place called Shakespeare's Sister. Not surprisingly, it deals with feminist issues a lot, but this post isn't so much about that. For those of you who might argue that feminism was a waste of time, consider the image below, and imagine what it would be like to live in a society like that.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v642/shakespeares_sister/1gh.jpg
Smunkeeville
16-09-2005, 02:56
sounds familiar. I do live in that world, I don't really see a problem with it.
Polypeptides
16-09-2005, 02:57
I might be on Prozac for the rest of my life if I had to do that everyday and then one day I'll probably go insane...Possibly leading to the eventual murder of my slaver of a husband... :rolleyes:
Skyfork
16-09-2005, 02:58
I'd rather have a robot.
The Nazz
16-09-2005, 02:58
sounds familiar. I do live in that world, I don't really see a problem with it.
"A good wife always knows her place." You don't have a problem with that, with the assumption that the female half of the partnership is somehow inferior to the male half? Jeez--I'm a man and that sounds like it comes from an alien planet. Or ought to at least.
Eutrusca
16-09-2005, 02:58
I consider myself to be a reasonably courageous man, but I ain't touchin' THIS tread! No way, Jose! :D
Andaluciae
16-09-2005, 02:59
Which is why certain levels of feminism are certainly appropriate, but sometimes some folks take it too far. That's what I don't like.
Undelia
16-09-2005, 03:00
Honestly, I’d love to have a wife who is willingly like that.
Iztatepopotla
16-09-2005, 03:01
Where's the part about fellatio? How could they have left that one out?
Smunkeeville
16-09-2005, 03:01
"A good wife always knows her place." You don't have a problem with that, with the assumption that the female half of the partnership is somehow inferior to the male half? Jeez--I'm a man and that sounds like it comes from an alien planet. Or ought to at least.
ah you assume though that my husband doesn't return the same respect to me.
I am not inferior, I do have a purpose, it isn't less important than his, at times it is more important. Most of the things on that list deal with having consideration for your spouse's needs. He works hard all day, why shouldn't he come home to dinner, and a clean house and a clean family?
Katganistan
16-09-2005, 03:04
While I don't mind OCCASIONALLY planning and cooking special dinners, *I've* had a hard day too and expect to have the favor returned periodically.

On days when neither Carterway or I are in the mood to cook, there's always takeout or go out. ;)
Polypeptides
16-09-2005, 03:05
Both my parents work all day...My mom doesn't have the time to clean the house and cook before my dad get's home...In fact, half the time, my dad cooks and cleans the house...
The Nazz
16-09-2005, 03:08
ah you assume though that my husband doesn't return the same respect to me.
I am not inferior, I do have a purpose, it isn't less important than his, at times it is more important. Most of the things on that list deal with having consideration for your spouse's needs. He works hard all day, why shouldn't he come home to dinner, and a clean house and a clean family?
It's the tone of the piece, especially lines like "don't complain if he ccomes home late or if he's been out all night." They might as well be saying, "if he cheats on you, don't bitch about it or you'll be on the street and it'll be your own damn fault." That's not respect.

I'm not saying that your relationship is like that--I assume it isn't--but that little "article" is a recipe for dominance and mistreatment. I'm ecstatic that we don't live in that world anymore. I like the fact that my girlfriend and I work in the same job, get paid the same, and share the housework. We're partners.
Smunkeeville
16-09-2005, 03:10
Both my parents work all day...My mom doesn't have the time to clean the house and cook before my dad get's home...In fact, half the time, my dad cooks and cleans the house...
sounds like a good arangement. :) I am not the sole person in charge of the household either. In fact I haven't done any laundry or taken out any trash or done any yard work or even cleaned the bathroom since I got married. He does all that and cooks on Thursdays and weekends and works 50 hours a week, I think that having a nice house to come home to everyday is the least I can do in return and on top of that I try to listen to him when he is stressed without interrupting and try to make him comfortable in his own home and suddenly I am living in the past and have an outdated marriage. I don't get it. guess I didn't explain very well but I do all the stuff on the list. I don't see why someone wouldn't unless they just really didn't have the time. (which I am aware that some don't.)
Smunkeeville
16-09-2005, 03:12
It's the tone of the piece, especially lines like "don't complain if he ccomes home late or if he's been out all night." They might as well be saying, "if he cheats on you, don't bitch about it or you'll be on the street and it'll be your own damn fault." That's not respect.

I'm not saying that your relationship is like that--I assume it isn't--but that little "article" is a recipe for dominance and mistreatment. I'm ecstatic that we don't live in that world anymore. I like the fact that my girlfriend and I work in the same job, get paid the same, and share the housework. We're partners.
yeah. I get that. I was reading it more from the "he had a stressful day, don't nag him constantly and make it worse." but then again my hubby hasn't ever stayed out all night and when he is home late I always know why.
Iztatepopotla
16-09-2005, 03:12
See? In the third before last, where it says:

"Make him comfortable. Have him lean back in a comfortable chair or lie down in the bedroom."

That's exactly where the part about fellatio should come in! Forget the drinks, plenty of time for those later.
Ikuo
16-09-2005, 03:16
Maybe I'm unexperianced, but in the modern world isn't it common for both partners to work? Lets say for the sake of argumant that that has some, and I mean some, merit if only one partner works. With two does the wife still have these "duties". Also a marriage is, in theory, 50/50. Working all dy with the kids(which is a job in itself) AND making hubby feel like he's a minor dieity it a bit much for anyone.

I grew up in the deep south for 17 years and in that time I saw more "defeated souls" then I care to recount. Women who killed themselves in thier husbands name. I also heard just as many complaints from husbands who felt they couldn't have a "real conversation" with thier wives.

I suppose it can work, and I'll admit to having no personal experance, but I hardly see this kind of attitude as a "cure all" to healthy, mature relationships if it encourages the complete attention of one partner to compensate for the expected activity of the other. After all, the man, according to such traditional thought, sees his support for his family as one of the most important things he can do. Surly any woman he cares for so deeply has to be more to him then a house keeper/ prositute. There is nothing in that section to suggest any affection on HIS side. Only sacrifice on hers.
Polypeptides
16-09-2005, 03:16
I don't really mind any of that other stuff on the list, but the line, "...remember, his topics of conversation are more important than yours" really doesn't agree with me. That's implying inferiority...Woman do have important things to discuss contrary to the stereotypical idea that all the female gender does is gossip when they're having a conversation...And in the end, topics of conversation are usually mutual, such as household accounts, insurance, or your children...
The Nazz
16-09-2005, 03:23
See? In the third before last, where it says:

"Make him comfortable. Have him lean back in a comfortable chair or lie down in the bedroom."

That's exactly where the part about fellatio should come in! Forget the drinks, plenty of time for those later.
It was 1955--I guess the fellatio was implied more than openly suggested. :D
Sdaeriji
16-09-2005, 03:24
There's nothing inherently wrong with that list, except for "remember, his topics of conversation are more important than yours", "you have no right to question him" and "a good wife always knows her place". We can all admit that it would be nice to be treated like that by our spouse after a long day of work, but only if it was because they really wanted to do that for us because they loved us, not because they felt it was what was proper to do. It's the attitude that the wife must be subservient that is unappealling to most of us today, not the treatment itself.
Rubina
16-09-2005, 03:24
<snip>... I am not the sole person in charge of the household either. In fact I haven't done any laundry or taken out any trash or done any yard work or even cleaned the bathroom since I got married. He does all that and cooks on Thursdays and weekends and works 50 hours a week,You're not really in the same situation then. The "advice" to the 1955's housewife includes the assumption that she has spent the day cleaning, cooking, raising the kids, doing all the shopping and schlepping, and still has the energy and time to put crinolines and 3" heels on to welcome hubby home with a drink in her hand.
<snip>.... on top of that I try to listen to him when he is stressed without interrupting and try to make him comfortable in his own home Presumably he does that for you as well, when it's you that has had a stressful day. Again, this is a very fundamental difference between then and now.

People can now choose whether or not they will fill "traditional" roles. You could choose tomorrow to no longer do those things for your husband and you wouldn't be considered a bad wife. You wouldn't be risking his leaving you and you wouldn't be risking him slapping you around. The 1950s wife wouldn't have had that option.
The Grand States
16-09-2005, 03:25
Where's the part about fellatio? How could they have left that one out?

Honest Christian Housewives and men know that this is a sin and fear gods retribution. I mean its obvious.
Aerou
16-09-2005, 03:26
Even I, as a woman, don't disagree with everything on that list.

1. "Have dinner ready"
2. "Prepare yourself"
3. "Be gay and a little more interesting for him"
4. "Clear away clutter"
5. "Gather up...[stuff]"
6. "Be happy to see him"
7. "Greet him with a warm smile"
8. "Make sure the home is a place of pease, order and tranquillity"
9. "Make him comfortable"

All these things I would do willingly, but the "he gets to talk before me" I don't care who really talks, as long as we both share our day.
Rubina
16-09-2005, 03:29
Where's the part about fellatio?Honest Christian Housewives and men know that this is a sin and fear gods retribution. I mean its obvious.That's why it's done in the dark--that way the Baby Jesus doesn't see and you don't make him cry. ;)
Iztatepopotla
16-09-2005, 03:32
Honest Christian Housewives and men know that this is a sin and fear gods retribution. I mean its obvious.
The problem with god is that he doesn't have a wife, or a girlfriend. He should get laid more often.
Monkeypimp
16-09-2005, 03:38
I doubt my mother, who is head of a govt department, would have time for that sort of thing..
Frostguarde
16-09-2005, 03:40
Now compare and contrast that with the T.V. show Roseanne. XD
I like today better. That's more like having a housekeeper/butler who's willing to give you sex instead of a wife.
Quasaglimoth
16-09-2005, 03:54
i agree that women were not always treated fairly back then,but now we have flip flopped to the other side. consider this:

in 2005...

1. many women dont cook,they insist on eating out. the ones who do cook think
mac and cheese from a box or hamburger helper qualifies as a home cooked
meal. some women can litterally burn water.(ever smell a charred pot that
went dry because she got distracted by oprah while boiling water?)

2. many women are lazy slobs who dont clean at all or they waste money by
hiring a maid.

3. many women have kids for attention then get bored with them and ignore
them. the kid spends his time at a daycare or with whoever will watch him.
if no babysitter can be found,the tv gets the duty. no wonder SAT scores
are so low...

4. many women treat their men like a jerk,then wonder why he cheats on her.

5. many women want to be spoiled and pampered,go shopping,and spend his
money,but the world would end if she had to get him a beer or give him a
backrub after working a 12 hr day. dont even ask about sex! after he is
reeled in,sex becomes a dirty chore. so why did she act like such a nympho when they were dating?

6. if he does one thing that really pisses her off,she can divorce him and take
half of everything plus get the kids just to spite him,and he has to pay the
support that she can spend on herself since the state does not require her
to keep track of what it was spent on.


great progress! thanks to all the man-hating feminists out there....



p.s...several of the womens mags like cosmo are advising women now to treat their men better and pay more attention to his needs. seems that alot of modern independent women are lonely and have a problem holding onto their men. gee....are we finally getting smart? go ahead and walk around with a chip on your shoulder and treat us like we are all just little boys. youll end up alone with 12 cats.....
The great cher
16-09-2005, 03:56
i guess it is funny but as a cat am not sure what it means. i know there is no cat in that story. why not?
Jah Bootie
16-09-2005, 03:58
Where's the part about fellatio? How could they have left that one out?
I was about to point out that there were a few notable omissions.
Zagat
16-09-2005, 04:34
ah you assume though that my husband doesn't return the same respect to me.
I am not inferior, I do have a purpose, it isn't less important than his, at times it is more important. Most of the things on that list deal with having consideration for your spouse's needs. He works hard all day, why shouldn't he come home to dinner, and a clean house and a clean family?
It specifically says that 'his topics of conversation are more important than yours' in such a context, I certainly do not see 'know your place' as implying anything other than that the husband is superior and the wives entire purpose is to be an object of service and pleasure for her husband. It's not about equal respect at all.
Neaness
16-09-2005, 05:01
I think the crucial difference between Smunkeeville's lifestyle and the one in the 50s article is that Smunkeeville has a CHOICE, whereas women in the 50s ... didn't. If Smunkee wanted, she could go get a job.

Incidentally, I could easily see myself being a mother who stayed at home and cooked and cleaned and did a small job from home, like editing or something.
Neo Rogolia
16-09-2005, 05:06
"A good wife always knows her place." You don't have a problem with that, with the assumption that the female half of the partnership is somehow inferior to the male half? Jeez--I'm a man and that sounds like it comes from an alien planet. Or ought to at least.


So submissiveness = inferiority? Technically, that would make you inferior to GWB :p


Anyways, it's nice to know you think so poorly of me :)
Neaness
16-09-2005, 05:18
Be a little gay and a little more interesting for him.

Didn't they frown on both homosexuality and 'interesting' things in the 50s? *is a pervert*


Anyway, I just remembered a book I got at a garage sale a while back - The Good Wife's Handbook or something to that effect. It's from the same era. A lot of good tips on cooking and stuff, but there's a similar list in there. Possibly identical, as this is ringing all kinds of alarm bells in my head. My mom flipped out when she saw it, because she thought I was going to turn into a Stepford Wife.
Squi
16-09-2005, 06:00
Yep, times certainly have changed. back when this particular image came out 5(?) years ago people were wondering if it was a hoax well before the equivalent of 3 pages went by. It is a hoax, http://www.snopes.com/language/document/goodwife.htm
Neaness
16-09-2005, 06:22
Yep, times certainly have changed. back when this particular image came out 5(?) years ago people were wondering if it was a hoax well before the equivalent of 3 pages went by. It is a hoax, http://www.snopes.com/language/document/goodwife.htm


... Well, I knew I'd seen it SOMEWHERE before >.< I should dig up that book and make a similar thread. The book's authentic.
Sick Dreams
16-09-2005, 07:20
I think I'd rather be dead than have a subserviant wife like that! Besides, I like to cook dinner for my wife. Makes me feel good.
The Nazz
16-09-2005, 11:22
So submissiveness = inferiority? Technically, that would make you inferior to GWB :p If you knew anything at all about me, you would know that I neither submit to nor recognize the superiority of George W. Bush in anything.


Anyways, it's nice to know you think so poorly of me :)
Read into it what you will--I make no personal judgments in this thread. I'm only commenting on changes in US society over the past 50 years.
The Nazz
16-09-2005, 11:33
Yep, times certainly have changed. back when this particular image came out 5(?) years ago people were wondering if it was a hoax well before the equivalent of 3 pages went by. It is a hoax, http://www.snopes.com/language/document/goodwife.htm
Fascinating. Thanks--although the factual example they provide is only slightly better than this one.
And before we entirely write off Fascinating Womanhood as the source of the piece now in circulation, let's take a peek between its covers, because it certainly contains plenty to make everyone from the diehard feminist to the "start the revolution without me" matron shudder, including these entries from a list of "DO's and DON'TS":Do's Dont's
Accept him at face value. Don't try to change him.
Admire the manly things about him. Don't show indifference, contempt, or ridicule towards his masculine abilities, achievements or ideas.
Recognize his superior strength and ability. Don't try to excel him in anything which requires masculine ability.
Be a Domestic Goddess. Don't let the outside world crowd you for time to do your homemaking tasks well.
Work for inner happiness and seek to understand its rules. Don't have a lot of preconceived ideas of what you want out of life.
Revere your husband and honor his right to rule you and your children. Don't stand in the way of his decisions, or his law.We don't want to believe any woman, even half a century ago, was willing to submit herself to a life of servitude in order to be considered successful at her "most important role in life," that of the wife. And we certainly don't want to believe our schools were used to inculcate young women with these skewed notions of the proper role for women. Yet we'd be wrong on both counts: Women did, and young gals were.

Whether the piece at hand is a genuine excerpt from a yet-undiscovered home economics textbook, it is nonetheless a relatively accurate reflection of the mainstream vision of a woman's appointed role in post-war America, as evinced by such educational training films as "The Home Economics Story" (made familiar to a whole new generation of youngsters through its spoofing on the popular Mystery Science Theater 3000 program).

This may be a text book example of how a thing may not be factually accurate and yet nonetheless true.
Kanabia
16-09-2005, 11:50
I wonder if that was written by a male or a female.
Smunkeeville
16-09-2005, 12:44
It specifically says that 'his topics of conversation are more important than yours' in such a context, I certainly do not see 'know your place' as implying anything other than that the husband is superior and the wives entire purpose is to be an object of service and pleasure for her husband. It's not about equal respect at all.
when he has had a stressful day his topics of conversation are more important than mine.

"know your place" everyone should know where they belong in the family dynamic. I am supposed to submit to my husband. It is that simple he is the head of the household. I know that it will be hard for some of you to believe and most of you will think I am being "enslaved" or "abused" but I assure you that I am not and am very happy in my role.
Squi
16-09-2005, 18:06
This may be a text book example of how a thing may not be factually accurate and yet nonetheless true.If you look at the actual list there is something different about it, of the six Dos and Don'ts, four can be found in modern guides for modern women almost exactly as written and one (domestic goddess) would probably be used if adressing housewives/husbands - in fact I'm pretty sure I've seen 1,2,3 & 5 recently. Only the 6th Do and Don't is as offensive as all 10 of the examples in the "Good Wife's Guide". The "Good Wifes' Guide" uses every opportunity to tell women that men are superior to women, "Fascinating Feminity" tells women how to get along with men (except for number 6).
Sinuhue
16-09-2005, 19:23
"His topics of conversation are more important than yours!!!???" :headbang:

It's hard to compare that kind of lifestyle to what we have now...I do think that if one person is working, and the other person's job is in the home, that having dinner ready, and the house clean is not unreasonable. But expecting the paid worker to be pamperd while the unpaid worker is pressed into servitude...when are we going to give domestic, unpaid work, the respect it is due? I think it's STILL the case that only paid work is 'important'. Traditionally that's been the woman's domain, which is why it is a feminist issue...but I'd hate to see that attitude transfer to the men who choose to be homemakers...we should NEVER take that work for granted.
Sinuhue
16-09-2005, 19:28
Yep, times certainly have changed. back when this particular image came out 5(?) years ago people were wondering if it was a hoax well before the equivalent of 3 pages went by. It is a hoax, http://www.snopes.com/language/document/goodwife.htm
If you read your source, you'll see that they go on to point out that the list is pretty accurate.
Sinuhue
16-09-2005, 19:30
If you look at the actual list there is something different about it, of the six Dos and Don'ts, four can be found in modern guides for modern women almost exactly as written and one (domestic goddess) would probably be used if adressing housewives/husbands - in fact I'm pretty sure I've seen 1,2,3 & 5 recently. Only the 6th Do and Don't is as offensive as all 10 of the examples in the "Good Wife's Guide". The "Good Wifes' Guide" uses every opportunity to tell women that men are superior to women, "Fascinating Feminity" tells women how to get along with men (except for number 6).
Yeah, if you took the picture away, and dropped this article into Cosmo, making sure to add the word 'orgasm' every couple of points, it'd sound pretty damn up to date. And I'm not kidding.
Muravyets
16-09-2005, 19:52
Yep, times certainly have changed. back when this particular image came out 5(?) years ago people were wondering if it was a hoax well before the equivalent of 3 pages went by. It is a hoax, http://www.snopes.com/language/document/goodwife.htm
Quotes from the linked article:

"Whether the piece at hand is a genuine excerpt from a yet-undiscovered home economics textbook, it is nonetheless a relatively accurate reflection of the mainstream vision of a woman's appointed role in post-war America, as evinced by such educational training films as "The Home Economics Story" (made familiar to a whole new generation of youngsters through its spoofing on the popular Mystery Science Theater 3000 program). "

"We needn't paint a mental picture of those times as being one of master and slave, "his every whim a command, his every utterance golden," because they weren't. But it is true in those days a woman's province was understood to be the home. To her fell the housework and the childrearing, tasks considered her indisputable purpose in life, her highest calling -- not something voluntarily undertaken. "

"It was seen as only right and proper that the wife should keep the home running smoothly, making it a quiet haven of peace and joy for her husband, the breadwinner. Her role in the marriage -- though still important -- was simply not considered to be on the same level as his. Certainly, the tribulations of running a home were never to be openly compared with a man's daily travails. He earned money, she didn't; thus his work was important. "


Not quite the same as saying it's a hoax. Just a point in favor of accuracy.
Squi
16-09-2005, 19:52
Yeah, if you took the picture away, and dropped this article into Cosmo, making sure to add the word 'orgasm' every couple of points, it'd sound pretty damn up to date. And I'm not kidding.Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose.
Sinuhue
16-09-2005, 19:59
Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose.
Pretty much.

At least women have the option to work out of the home now...even if there is all this pressure for us to 'please our men' and stay home more and blah blah blah...there is also the strength in numbers that allows us to keep working anyway...and hopefully meet a partner who's values match ours.
Xenophobialand
16-09-2005, 20:02
Honest Christian Housewives and men know that this is a sin and fear gods retribution. I mean its obvious.

It's only a sin if you don't return the favor with interest.
Muravyets
16-09-2005, 20:04
The "advice" to the 1955's housewife includes the assumption that she has spent the day cleaning, cooking, raising the kids, doing all the shopping and schlepping, and still has the energy and time to put crinolines and 3" heels on to welcome hubby home with a drink in her hand.
That doesn't even mention the 12 drinks and all the pills she had before getting into those crinolines for hubby. "Mother's little helpers" indeed. Back in those days, a woman needed a lot of support to force herself to act out such a load of propagandisitic crap AND pretend she cared what her husband was babbling about and wasn't wishing he was somebody else (like that mailman...mmmm...<pours herself another drink -- oh, yeah, and another for what's his name, too>...here, uh, dear).

To be fair, the men were under pressure from their own loads of propagandistic crap, too -- The Man in the Gray Flannel Suit syndrome -- which accounted for the 6-7 drinks they usually had between office and home.

Ah, nostalgia.
Smunkeeville
16-09-2005, 20:19
Pretty much.

At least women have the option to work out of the home now...even if there is all this pressure for us to 'please our men' and stay home more and blah blah blah...there is also the strength in numbers that allows us to keep working anyway...and hopefully meet a partner who's values match ours.
true. I just wish that some people would realize that deciding to stay home and be a housewife is a valid option. I mean I am not staying home to watch Oprah and eat Bon-bons. You would be surprised how many people are all about women having choices and then when one of us chooses to take a more traditional(old fashioned) role then we are constantly belittled about how we are being "slaves to our husbands" and "have no real goals" or worse "are just a housewife"
I could work outside of the home, and I do during tax season. My husband doesn't have a problem with it. I just think it is better for my family for me to be home as much as possible. (not that this is directed at you specifically just commenting on my situation)
The Nazz
16-09-2005, 20:27
true. I just wish that some people would realize that deciding to stay home and be a housewife is a valid option. I mean I am not staying home to watch Oprah and eat Bon-bons. You would be surprised how many people are all about women having choices and then when one of us chooses to take a more traditional(old fashioned) role then we are constantly belittled about how we are being "slaves to our husbands" and "have no real goals" or worse "are just a housewife"
I could work outside of the home, and I do during tax season. My husband doesn't have a problem with it. I just think it is better for my family for me to be home as much as possible. (not that this is directed at you specifically just commenting on my situation)
It is a valid option, and I certainly don't disrespect anyone who chooses that lifestyle. But for some women, it's not a real choice, even these days. It's what is expected, even demanded of them in many places--usually places where secular education is not held up as a plus, where loyalty to a church is considered more important, for example. That's a gross generalization, I know, and it's certainly no the case for the majority of women anymore, but there are those--some of whom hold considerable political power (Rick Santorum comes to mind) who think that the scenario I started this thread off with is perhaps a touch too liberal for them. And that's scary.
Sinuhue
16-09-2005, 20:29
true. I just wish that some people would realize that deciding to stay home and be a housewife is a valid option. I mean I am not staying home to watch Oprah and eat Bon-bons. You would be surprised how many people are all about women having choices and then when one of us chooses to take a more traditional(old fashioned) role then we are constantly belittled about how we are being "slaves to our husbands" and "have no real goals" or worse "are just a housewife" I agree. You know why I work outside of the home? Because I simply can not handle the amount of work involved in doing all the domestic chores and minding the kids, 24/7. I can't. I need a break. Work is my break time. I hated being at home...the jobs never end. I'm sure there are a women out there who stay home and lay around all day...and men too. But generally, homemaking is a JOB, and a hard one.

I admire my children's babysitter. She has four boys of her own (all school age), and she is a homemaker with a dayhome, meaning she cares for five children all day plus her own four when they get home for lunch and after school, all while she does the various chores around the home. That woman has bread baked every morning, the laundry going every second, the floor swept about six times daily (kids coming in and out of the sandbox make it absolutely necessary), and breakfast, lunch, and supper all ready and all homecooked. She's a superwoman. I couldn't do it! I'd lose my mind! It's easier to work outside the home, because for one, my work is paid, and therefore valued, and two, because it's not nearly as strenuous.


I could work outside of the home, and I do during tax season. My husband doesn't have a problem with it. I just think it is better for my family for me to be home as much as possible. (not that this is directed at you specifically just commenting on my situation)
I understand you, don't worry. Staying at home, or working outside of it (when you actually are in the financial situation to choose) is a personal choice, hopefully based on the well-being of yourself and your family. In my case, staying home is a very bad thing for me and my family. I'm a crappy homemaker, and I get really buggy cooped up like that. I don't appreciate my kids as much. When I get out and work, in a very flexible job with decent hours, little overtime (currently), and flexible vacation times, I find I actually am able to pay more attention to my kids than I did before. I'm happier, the husband is happier, and the kids LOVE playing with the other kids at their day home, then coming home to play with us. This situation works for us. For other families, something different is better.

I want the work in the home to be respected. I want women to feel comfortable staying home if they (and their partner) choose, and I want them to feel comfortable NOT staying home. Neither group should be looking at the other in scorn.
Sinuhue
16-09-2005, 20:31
It is a valid option, and I certainly don't disrespect anyone who chooses that lifestyle. But for some women, it's not a real choice, even these days. It's what is expected, even demanded of them in many places--usually places where secular education is not held up as a plus, where loyalty to a church is considered more important, for example.
I agree with this as well. As a choice, it's valid. As an expectation, even in the face of dissenting wishes (wanting to work outside the home, or perhaps NOT marry or have children), it's an abomination.
Smunkeeville
16-09-2005, 20:40
I want the work in the home to be respected. I want women to feel comfortable staying home if they (and their partner) choose, and I want them to feel comfortable NOT staying home. Neither group should be looking at the other in scorn.
I agree. Thank you for making my point clearer. :)
Smunkeeville
16-09-2005, 20:46
It is a valid option, and I certainly don't disrespect anyone who chooses that lifestyle. But for some women, it's not a real choice, even these days. It's what is expected, even demanded of them in many places--usually places where secular education is not held up as a plus, where loyalty to a church is considered more important, for example. That's a gross generalization, I know, and it's certainly no the case for the majority of women anymore, but there are those--some of whom hold considerable political power (Rick Santorum comes to mind) who think that the scenario I started this thread off with is perhaps a touch too liberal for them. And that's scary.
very scary. I would be upset if my husband forced me to stay home. I guess I am just venting on here because I have friends in RL who think that because I stay home that I am less intelligent, or lazy, or married to an evil man who thinks I am his slave. I am just getting tired of the idea that staying home is somehow bad., and that a real women wouldn't cater to her husband. That it is somehow beneath them to cook a meal, or pick up the house, and that by enjoying these things and thinking that being a wife and a mother is one of the most important jobs that I can do, that somehow I am ruining it for the rest of women everywhere. I am sorry if in my frustration with the world in general I have overstepped and offended anyone. ;)