NationStates Jolt Archive

*applause*
I was an agnosticc but kept spelling it wrong so I had to become an atheist.

Because you can't be "agnostic". You have to be agnostic something. Agnosticism is a qualifier, and not something to itself. If you are just "agnostic", then you are saying that either you lack all knowledge, or you believe that knowledge is impossible. In either case, it's self-contradictory, since you have knowledge of yourself, the external world, things in the external world, language, grammar, syntax, etc.

So, wrt "god", you can be theist or atheist, and within that wrt agnosticism, you can be agnostic theist or agnostic atheist. Thus, agnosticism is orthogonal to both. But it can't stand on its own.

Further, it's silly to say that "you don't know" that there are no square circles, right? Similarly, it's silly to say that "you don't know" that there is a god or not.

[snip strawman of atheism]

Er, how can there be a difference between an agnostic theist and agnostic atheist? You seem to have a different definition of agnosticism to what I'm familiar with, as I'd have thought that you are agnostic with regard to whether atheism or theism is correct.

Personally, I'm not sure whether I'd call myself agnostic or atheist. I think there's no evidence either way, and going by occam's razor it is rational to make the assumption that there is no god. I think I'd prefer to call myself an atheist, not because I absolutely believe there is no god, but because my beliefs and philosophies are independent of any supernatural being.

Er, how can there be a difference between an agnostic theist and agnostic atheist?
One believes that there is a god, but either doesn't know what it is, or believes that we can't know what it is, and the other lacks belief in the existence of a god, and believes that we can't know if there is or, or doesn't know if we can know if there is one.


You seem to have a different definition of agnosticism to what I'm familiar with, as I'd have thought that you are agnostic with regard to whether atheism or theism is correct.
Not if you know the definition of agnosticism. Break the word down, and you'll see that I'm correct. Also, have a read of George H. Smith's Atheism: The Case Against God


Personally, I'm not sure whether I'd call myself agnostic or atheist. I think there's no evidence either way, and going by occam's razor it is rational to make the assumption that there is no god. I think I'd prefer to call myself an atheist, not because I absolutely believe there is no god, but because my beliefs and philosophies are independent of any supernatural being.
Good on you.

Er, how can there be a difference between an agnostic theist and agnostic atheist? You seem to have a different definition of agnosticism to what I'm familiar with, as I'd have thought that you are agnostic with regard to whether atheism or theism is correct.

Personally, I'm not sure whether I'd call myself agnostic or atheist. I think there's no evidence either way, and going by occam's razor it is rational to make the assumption that there is no god. I think I'd prefer to call myself an atheist, not because I absolutely believe there is no god, but because my beliefs and philosophies are independent of any supernatural being.
The difference between agnostic theist and agnostic atheist is the same as between a theist and an atheist in general, except that the agnostic atheist realises that there might be a god (though he doesn't believe it) and the agnostic theist realises that god might not exist, though he believes that He does.

The definition of agnostisism is, as BAAWA explained, to deny the existence or possibility of knowledge, in the case of god hold that it is impossible to know anything about gods.

Your opinion seems to be agnostic atheism, and is similar to mine. But I add that if there was a god and he wanted us to believe, he should provide evidence. Since he doesn't any religion that says god wants something from us that we don't do naturally must be wrong.

Just take a look at Stephen Hawking: he hypothesized a while back that black holes emitted no radiation whatsoever, but that didn't mean he didn't question that hypothesis - he did question it, and prodded it, and poked at it until he found evidence that his hypothesis was wrong, and when he did, he admitted so. He didn't limit himself by saying "I'm right, nyah nyah," he accepted the possibility that he might have been wrong, and it was because of that that we now know more about black holes than we did before. He realized that he couldn't possibly know whether or not his hypothesis was right until he tested it, and so he did.
Stephen Hawking is an atheist, you dolt.

One believes that there is a god, but either doesn't know what it is, or believes that we can't know what it is, and the other lacks belief in the existence of a god, and believes that we can't know if there is or, or doesn't know if we can know if there is one.


But I'd be pretty sure that a lot of agnostics are a combination of both, as they would believe that we can't know whether a god exists, and if so we don't know god's nature. The main problem is that a lot of atheists/agnostics are far too concerned with Christianity and don't believe in one specific god. For those that think it through more thoroughly, it would make more sense to be a combination of the two.

But I'd be pretty sure that a lot of agnostics are a combination of both, as they would believe that we can't know whether a god exists, and if so we don't know god's nature. The main problem is that a lot of atheists/agnostics are far too concerned with Christianity and don't believe in one specific god. For those that think it through more thoroughly, it would make more sense to be a combination of the two.
I don't believe in any of them, and there's no possible way they can exist.

Er, how can there be a difference between an agnostic theist and agnostic atheist?

An agnostic believes it is impossible to KNOW for sure, if there is a god or not. (A-Gnostic... basically "Not Knowing").

That doesn't effect whether or not he (or she) 'believes' in god.

An Atheist who doesn't accept the idea of god - but admits it is impossible to know for SURE, is an Agnostic Atheist.

A religious person who accepts the idea of a god, but also believes it impossible to be SURE... is an Agnostic Theist.