NationStates Jolt Archive

I zipped through NS the other day and read this list (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=9596994&postcount=1) of what it means to be poor. It was funny and sad at the same time, because a lot of it was pretty familiar. In fact, the whole site linked to in that first post had people contributing their own memories of what it meant to grow up poor, and I really sat back with my heart in my mouth reading it. It's so different to be a kid living like that...not really understanding it but kind of taking it as just the way things are. Now that I'm a parent, I can better appreciate the sacrifices my parents had to make to raise me and my four brothers.

Poverty taught me a lot about life, about not taking anything for granted, and about how fine is the line between 'doing okay' and 'not quite making it'. I'm no longer poor. But I was born into poverty. It was a poverty that lasted for 23 of my 27 years. It took some time to get out, to get educated, to get a good job, but I did it because my parents made those sacrifices. Now that my four brothers and I are all grown, and on our own, my parents too have finally pulled themselves out of poverty. Sometimes it took help to keep us fed and clothed, but at the very least, school in Canada is free, our healthcare was free, and a social system for emergencies exist. To those who say, 'that's not free, that's MY tax money', I say: here we are, 8 people who needed your help from time to time, but who have also contributed, who have also paid taxes, who have also made a difference in this world. Do you really begrudge that help?


*disclaimer* No, I'm still not back full time. But things are stalled right now at work as we wait for templates to arrive, and I am sneaking in some NS time. Yes, I accept I have a terrible addiction to NS. I accept that I am backsliding, that I have failed to sever ties with NS. I accept all of this, so hush. Don't even bring it up. This is a visit only, I SWEAR IT!*

I grew up pretty well off, but decided to move downtown after graduation and live on my own with a shitty job that barely paid the bills. I got the impression, growing up, that I had everything more or less handed to me, and I don't like that. I only lived below the poverty line for about a year, but I learned a lot from it. I tried to make it a point, growing up, to not take things for granted, but living on my own was the final nail in that coffin.

In short, I conducted an experiment in poverty on my own terms. I didn't like it very much, and I hope it is a state of things I will never have to return to.

I zipped through NS the other day and read this list (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=9596994&postcount=1) of what it means to be poor. It was funny and sad at the same time, because a lot of it was pretty familiar. In fact, the whole site linked to in that first post had people contributing their own memories of what it meant to grow up poor, and I really sat back with my heart in my mouth reading it. It's so different to be a kid living like that...not really understanding it but kind of taking it as just the way things are. Now that I'm a parent, I can better appreciate the sacrifices my parents had to make to raise me and my four brothers.

Poverty taught me a lot about life, about not taking anything for granted, and about how fine is the line between 'doing okay' and 'not quite making it'. I'm no longer poor. But I was born into poverty. It was a poverty that lasted for 23 of my 27 years. It took some time to get out, to get educated, to get a good job, but I did it because my parents made those sacrifices. Now that my four brothers and I are all grown, and on our own, my parents too have finally pulled themselves out of poverty. Sometimes it took help to keep us fed and clothed, but at the very least, school in Canada is free, our healthcare was free, and a social system for emergencies exist. To those who say, 'that's not free, that's MY tax money', I say: here we are, 8 people who needed your help from time to time, but who have also contributed, who have also paid taxes, who have also made a difference in this world. Do you really begrudge that help?


*disclaimer* No, I'm still not back full time. But things are stalled right now at work as we wait for templates to arrive, and I am sneaking in some NS time. Yes, I accept I have a terrible addiction to NS. I accept that I am backsliding, that I have failed to sever ties with NS. I accept all of this, so hush. Don't even bring it up. This is a visit only, I SWEAR IT!*

I dont begrudge helping those that need it at all. I feel even better about it when "poor" people utilize any assistance and work to improve their circumstances-for them and their families.
If you started out underprivileged and made an honest effort through work and education and made your life better-as well as those around you-My hat is off to you-I salute you.
And may your ethics continue to improve your standard of living and your way of life. And may your children use your same efforts to improve upon the foundation you've built.

best wishes for your contiuned success and hapiness.

*and my long wet tongue in your ear*

I think most University or College students have at least had some small experience with poverty (unless they had tuition and living expenses paid for them). I think for those who grew up well-off, it's an important thing to go through.

One thing I worry about is my kids...they have it pretty damn easy, truth be told. I don't go crazy and buy them every toy out there...and hand me downs are a legitimate (and sizeable) portion of their wardrobe...but I've too many people grow up with all their wants as well as their needs met, and they have a real hard time adjusting to living on their own. We all want our kids to have more than we did...but I want my kids to have more opportunities than I did...not stuff. So I'll pay for dance lessons, and teach them music, and all that...but presents are for birthdays and Christmas only...and what we don't get them (as they get older and more demanding) they are going to have to do without...or buy themselves. I expect to be very hated during the teen years:)

I think it's important to have had those experiences, be it being born into them, thrust into them through circumstances, or choosing them when you first strike out on your own, accidently or deliberately ...

I grew up comfortable because we didn't have much money, but it was more than 'not enough', and my parents were very careful with it ... my partner grew up with the same sensibilities, and it's helped us ...

We went through a time a few years ago where charity shops were our friends, where buying new 'work shoes' meant not buying anything else for a month or so, pawning things to pay bills, and, yes, knowing exactly how much all the cheapest food cost. A friend bringing us tinned food and bread because our landlord ate the last meal we had saved before we would get paid was propably the highlight of that one :P.

We're far out of it now,a nd we've worked for that and built something, but I think it's all the more appreciated because of where we were .. and I'm thankful I have the perspective ...

... I don't want to have to do it again :P.

... I don't want to have to do it again :P.
Ditto on that. I'll work three jobs before I start saving ketchup packages to empty into an ichiban soup just to get some extra calories again.

But at the very least, I know I could survive it.

I grew up in a very poor family, though in the UK, so my experience was quite different to that linked to in the OP (for example, we had free Health and reasonable housing, but no car or TV). I'm doing pretty well now, but I actually still find it quite difficult in RL to establish intimate friendships with people who haven't experienced extended poverty. There's a whole set of basic assumptions about life that we just don't share.

The point about how you treat your kids is quite an interesting one. If anything we go the other way. Because there was never any chance of a 'yes' when my wife and I were kids, we didn't bother to ask our parents for things. So we never learnt from them how to say 'no' to our kids. (But we're getting there slowly :p )

The point about how you treat your kids is quite an interesting one. If anything we go the other way. Because there was never any chance of a 'yes' when my wife and I were kids, we didn't bother to ask our parents for things. So we never learnt from them how to say 'no' to our kids. (But we're getting there slowly :p )
It's very important to me to set limits now...because I grew up in an area where the dichotomy between rich and poor was extreme. In rural areas, you can find extreme poverty, or extreme wealth...both kind of hidden away. We don't have private schools here, so we end up mixing...and many of the 'rich' kids I grew up with still don't really know how to take care of themselves, and need help from their parents. They aren't happy with the situation either, but they lack the skills to support themselves.

My husband grew up in much worse straits than I. He was born a year before the coup d'etat in Chile in a slum of Santiago. He had a digestive problem which saw him throwing up his food most of the time...and as there were extreme food shortages, and his parents were so poor, sometimes the only option was feeding that back to him. I have pictures of him and his sister in the same shirt and pants for 10 years...his mom is a wizz with a needle, and would let the clothes out or add inserts just to get them to fit. My husband still loves to eat cooked onion mixed with egg...because he grew up eating it. Onions could be grown in the back yard, and an egg with some water mixed with the onion meant a full meal for the family. He also grew up with the terror of the dictatorship...something I can hardly imagine.

The stories they've told me...yikes...it makes the poverty I grew up in seem like privilege.

Whatever your situation...you're still much better off than many people in this world. I don't ever want to forget that.

One thing I worry about is my kids...they have it pretty damn easy, truth be told. I don't go crazy and buy them every toy out there...and hand me downs are a legitimate (and sizeable) portion of their wardrobe...but I've too many people grow up with all their wants as well as their needs met, and they have a real hard time adjusting to living on their own. We all want our kids to have more than we did...but I want my kids to have more opportunities than I did...not stuff. So I'll pay for dance lessons, and teach them music, and all that...but presents are for birthdays and Christmas only...and what we don't get them (as they get older and more demanding) they are going to have to do without...or buy themselves. I expect to be very hated during the teen years:)
You're doing the right thing, Sinuhue.
Love and affection are way more important than material wealth, and I have seen many times that parents who haven't spend enough "family time" with their kids try to compensate for the lack by spending lots of cash on stupid things.
(Glad to say that didn't happen with me and my family - family time has always been very important up to this day!).

The only thing that really bugged me was that my birthday and Christmas are both in December - and guess what: Many times I got only a little for my B-Day because "you know, you will get something really nice at Christmas". Yeah... But combining presents still sucked when you wake up, *it's my birthday, it's my birthday* and then, nada, wait another 3 weeks... ;)
But I can't really complain all that much. (I believe it a trend in the family though, "spring-time kids"... both my mom and sister also have their B-Days in December :D)

*Good to know you are busy working and not spending any time here! Why are looking at me like that? Oops? Did I say that out loud? Good to see you around ever once in a while!*

Honestly, everyone around me was just as poor growing up as I was, so I didn't really know the difference. Growing up in an East Texas farming and steel worker town, you don't find too many "well off" folks.

Taught me, though, how to really make just a few dollars last.

The only thing that really bugged me was that my birthday and Christmas are both in December - and guess what: Many times I got only a little for my B-Day because "you know, you will get something really nice at Christmas". Same problem I had:). Ah well...you get over it! So will my little brats!

Yeah, I can't resist. It'd help if this damn job actually kept me as busy as it should...we keep getting these administrative delays that are jamming up the works.

Good to hear from you again Sinuhue.

For a while my family collected public assistance when I was a kid, but hard work and sacrifice helped them get off assistance and even buy a rental property. Without welfare my folks never would have been able to lift us out of poverty. Those who think people on welfare are lazy are probably people who've never been in need.

Do some people make welfare a lifestyle and never strive to improve their position? Probably, but they're going to be a minority. The majority of people on welfare are there not because they want to do their grocery shopping at the dollar store, but because bad luck or lack of opportunity forced them into a tough position, and they'd love to find a way to move up in life.

Honestly, everyone around me was just as poor growing up as I was, so I didn't really know the difference. Growing up in an East Texas farming and steel worker town, you don't find too many "well off" folks.

Taught me, though, how to really make just a few dollars last.
I'd kind of have preferred to not see my own poverty highlighted in the wealth of others...but c'est la vie. It hurt my parents more though...to come home from my friend's 6000 square foot house with indoor pool and squash court to our farm house and then go into detail about all the stuff they had, and why didn't we have that...blah blah blah. I learned early on how much that hurt my folks, and I smartened up quick...and I used to beat the crap out of my brothers if they started in with "so and so has this so why can't we have it". I cringe everytime I think about my mom's expression when I blamed them for not having what the Jonses had. I could kick my own ass for being that damn selfish. But kids just don't get it.

I'd kind of have preferred to not see my own poverty highlighted in the wealth of others...but c'est la vie. It hurt my parents more though...to come home from my friend's 6000 square foot house with indoor pool and squash court to our farm house and then go into detail about all the stuff they had, and why didn't we have that...blah blah blah. I learned early on how much that hurt my folks, and I smartened up quick...and I used to beat the crap out of my brothers if they started in with "so and so has this so why can't we have it". I cringe everytime I think about my mom's expression when I blamed them for not having what the Jonses had. I could kick my own ass for being that damn selfish. But kids just don't get it.
I didn't know anyone that rich when I was a kid, but I guess I did torture my parents with complaints about the other kids having Nike sneakers and me having to make do with cheap brands.

I grew up in a very poor family, though in the UK, so my experience was quite different to that linked to in the OP (for example, we had free Health and reasonable housing, but no car or TV). I'm doing pretty well now, but I actually still find it quite difficult in RL to establish intimate friendships with people who haven't experienced extended poverty. There's a whole set of basic assumptions about life that we just don't share.

The point about how you treat your kids is quite an interesting one. If anything we go the other way. Because there was never any chance of a 'yes' when my wife and I were kids, we didn't bother to ask our parents for things. So we never learnt from them how to say 'no' to our kids. (But we're getting there slowly :p )

I happen to know an awful lot of people in that manner, one who developed outside of poverty simply cannot concieve what it is to be truly poor.

Thats just it isn't it though... in the orginal thread which this one is in response to, the discussion was how inescapable poverty is. But read the stories, of all the people who grew up impoverished, and through work are now leading more successful lives. Poverty itself is not an inescapable cycle, but rather just a state of being which requires even more work to escape. In america especially, class movement is very possible!

Same problem I had:). Ah well...you get over it! So will my little brats!
I did. I can still remember when I got my first bike as a combo deal. So it does have an advantage when you don't get a half a bike in the summer and the rest in the winter :D
Mmh. Funny you should say that! For some reason, I begin to really like those hold-ups and delays: It makes the time spend here (with you!) so much better!

It's very important to me to set limits now...because I grew up in an area where the dichotomy between rich and poor was extreme. In rural areas, you can find extreme poverty, or extreme wealth...both kind of hidden away. We don't have private schools here, so we end up mixing...and many of the 'rich' kids I grew up with still don't really know how to take care of themselves, and need help from their parents. They aren't happy with the situation either, but they lack the skills to support themselves.
This is one thing our parents built into us, and will in turn be built into our kids. Even the autistic one, though that presents its own challenges.

My husband grew up in much worse straits than I. He was born a year before the coup d'etat in Chile in a slum of Santiago. He had a digestive problem which saw him throwing up his food most of the time...and as there were extreme food shortages, and his parents were so poor, sometimes the only option was feeding that back to him. I have pictures of him and his sister in the same shirt and pants for 10 years...his mom is a wizz with a needle, and would let the clothes out or add inserts just to get them to fit. My husband still loves to eat cooked onion mixed with egg...because he grew up eating it. Onions could be grown in the back yard, and an egg with some water mixed with the onion meant a full meal for the family. He also grew up with the terror of the dictatorship...something I can hardly imagine.

The stories they've told me...yikes...it makes the poverty I grew up in seem like privilege.

Whatever your situation...you're still much better off than many people in this world. I don't ever want to forget that.
Indeed. That's a whole level again of poverty, and one of the reasons I'm extremely grateful to have been born in the country and the century I was born in. Kudos to your husband for making it out of there. (My equivalent weakness is for a meal consisting entirely of spaghetti and tomato ketchup, BTW.)

There's another type of poverty that I'm grateful to have avoided, which is where there is no perception of a realistic chance of escape. In my family, we all knew we were going to do alright when we grew up, and we were lucky enough to achieve that; and that gave us a positive outlook. Similarly, I could show you poor areas of London where in one area the local know they are only passing through, that their circumstances will improve. Whereas in another area with no worse poverty in terms of income and living conditions, the locals think that what they've got now is pretty much all they'll ever get. I could, and have, happily lived in the former, but the latter .... infinitely depressing.

I think most University or College students have at least had some small experience with poverty (unless they had tuition and living expenses paid for them). I think for those who grew up well-off, it's an important thing to go through.

absolutely

two words:

Ramen Noodles

I happen to know an awful lot of people in that manner, one who developed outside of poverty simply cannot concieve what it is to be truly poor.
Likewise. Most of us got lucky on entrance exams and such, so tended to go to schools and colleges where the overwhelming majority of our peers were very comfortably off.

Thats just it isn't it though... in the orginal thread which this one is in response to, the discussion was how inescapable poverty is. But read the stories, of all the people who grew up impoverished, and through work are now leading more successful lives. Poverty itself is not an inescapable cycle, but rather just a state of being which requires even more work to escape. In america especially, class movement is very possible!
Yes...but many arguments made in terms of poverty are made with the intent to remove the support system that makes class mobility possible in the Industrialised World. The only thing that helped my husband out of poverty was tragedy...his uncle was disappeared, tortured, and killed. His family applied as refugees to Canada, and were accepted. The Church paid for their father's airfare, and he came to Canada to work in order to bring them. His friends, people he grew up with, are still living in desperate poverty, or are incarcerated or dead. They had no help to access in order to get a hand up. Poverty becomes MORE inescapable the more we treat it as a personal choice, rather than a terrible, temporary situation that can be alleviated with help.

I grew up as rich as I can possibly imagine, because I have a very loving family

There's another type of poverty that I'm grateful to have avoided, which is where there is no perception of a realistic chance of escape. In my family, we all knew we were going to do alright when we grew up, and we were lucky enough to achieve that; and that gave us a positive outlook. Similarly, I could show you poor areas of London where in one area the local know they are only passing through, that their circumstances will improve. Whereas in another area with no worse poverty in terms of income and living conditions, the locals think that what they've got now is pretty much all they'll ever get. I could, and have, happily lived in the former, but the latter .... infinitely depressing.
Sounds like the Reservation. The only choice is leaving your culture, your family, and yourself behind. Not much of a choice. :(

absolutely

two words:

Ramen Noodles
I've got two more words for you:

Bacon fat.

High in calories, cheap cooking oil, and allows you to make a soup stock without using any meat. One package of bacon can leave you with two cups of bacon fat that can translate into about 12 bacon-fat based soups.

I grew up as rich as I can possibly imagine, because I have a very loving family
And I guess that's what it boils down to...my rich friend (the one who lived in the 6000 square foot house) hardly saw her parents, and is about as messed up a person as I've ever met. I'll take poverty and strong family ties over wealth and abandonment any day.

I did. I can still remember when I got my first bike as a combo deal. So it does have an advantage when you don't get a half a bike in the summer and the rest in the winter :D
Mmh. Funny you should say that! For some reason, I begin to really like those hold-ups and delays: It makes the time spend here (with you!) so much better!
This kind of reminds me of the "We were Poor (http://arago4.tn.utwente.nl/stonedead/movies/hollywood-bowl/16-we-were-poor.html)" sketch of Monty Python fame...my absolute all time favourite!

These holdups are a bit of a mixed blessing...I love NS!!!!

To those who say, 'that's not free, that's MY tax money', I say: here we are, 8 people who needed your help from time to time, but who have also contributed, who have also paid taxes, who have also made a difference in this world. Do you really begrudge that help?
No, I don't, Sin, I don't. Not at all, even though it wasn't my taxes that helped, seein' as how I don't live in the Great White North. I still wouldn't have begrudged you whatever you needed, hon.

BTW ... I grew up much the same way, and I'm proud of you! :)

I've got two more words for you:

Bacon fat.

High in calories, cheap cooking oil, and allows you to make a soup stock without using any meat. One package of bacon can leave you with two cups of bacon fat that can translate into about 12 bacon-fat based soups.
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y223/GermanNightmare/HOMER3.jpg

I'd kind of have preferred to not see my own poverty highlighted in the wealth of others...but c'est la vie. It hurt my parents more though...to come home from my friend's 6000 square foot house with indoor pool and squash court to our farm house and then go into detail about all the stuff they had, and why didn't we have that...blah blah blah. I learned early on how much that hurt my folks, and I smartened up quick...and I used to beat the crap out of my brothers if they started in with "so and so has this so why can't we have it". I cringe everytime I think about my mom's expression when I blamed them for not having what the Jonses had. I could kick my own ass for being that damn selfish. But kids just don't get it.

We didn't ask my parents for stuff. But, what hurt them possibly more was when we stopped inviting our friends over because we were ashamed of our home. (We didn't say that, but they figured it out.)

Hey,

I'm only 19 and i live in a "well off" neighbourhood in the north of the UK. I'm ready to admit that i cannot truly understand the concept of being poor. The people that live in my neighbourhood are the sort of people that try to help those less fortunate, clothes/food drives etc. But i was wondering if those of you that were/are less fortunate think of these kind of things?

BTW - I applaud all those of you that have been through the hardship! :)

I've always been well-off and I'm very guilty about it. I'm a communist, so I think that the working class should take control of society, because without them, we have nothing. I'm ashamed the fact that 1 in 10 Americans are in poverty, and when people bring up the arguement that the ones in poverty are lazy it isn't true, because only 5% of the country is unemployed, meaning there are working people below the poverty point and people who are still poor but not in poverty. I say we issue every working citizen who can't afford a house an apartment, free health care, and acess to a good education. The state of America's schools (me being a student in one) is sickening. To fix this problem I say we make education a top priority and completely reform the system, by giving more funds to inner-city schools. Workers of the world unite!

Hey,

I'm only 19 and i live in a "well off" neighbourhood in the north of the UK. I'm ready to admit that i cannot truly understand the concept of being poor. There people that live in my neighbourhood are the sort of people that try to help those less fortunate, clothes/food drives etc. But i was wondering if those of you that were/are less fortunate think of these kind of things?

BTW - I applaud all those of you that have been through the hardship! :)

People who are/were in those situations are often the first to think of these things.

For example, my family received hand-me-downs from the whole neighbourhood. That which didn't fit us when on to the charity shops. As an adult, I have founded and co-ordinated food drives, give monthly to charities, and regularly donate blood. Many of my friends who grew up in less needy situations need to be reminded to help others, rather than initiating it.

People who are/were in those situations are often the first to think of these things.

For example, my family received hand-me-downs from the whole neighbourhood. That which didn't fit us when on to the charity shops. As an adult, I have founded and co-ordinated food drives, give monthly to charities, and regularly donate blood. Many of my friends who grew up in less needy situations need to be reminded to help others, rather than initiating it.

Very true. Those who know what it is to be poor are generally just more generous when it comes to charity. I remeber on my paper route as a kid - the poorer houses would on average give a much bigger christmas tip than the rich ones, which struck me as pretty odd.

I zipped through NS the other day and read this list (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=9596994&postcount=1) of what it means to be poor. It was funny and sad at the same time, because a lot of it was pretty familiar. In fact, the whole site linked to in that first post had people contributing their own memories of what it meant to grow up poor, and I really sat back with my heart in my mouth reading it. It's so different to be a kid living like that...not really understanding it but kind of taking it as just the way things are. Now that I'm a parent, I can better appreciate the sacrifices my parents had to make to raise me and my four brothers.

Poverty taught me a lot about life, about not taking anything for granted, and about how fine is the line between 'doing okay' and 'not quite making it'. I'm no longer poor. But I was born into poverty. It was a poverty that lasted for 23 of my 27 years. It took some time to get out, to get educated, to get a good job, but I did it because my parents made those sacrifices. Now that my four brothers and I are all grown, and on our own, my parents too have finally pulled themselves out of poverty. Sometimes it took help to keep us fed and clothed, but at the very least, school in Canada is free, our healthcare was free, and a social system for emergencies exist. To those who say, 'that's not free, that's MY tax money', I say: here we are, 8 people who needed your help from time to time, but who have also contributed, who have also paid taxes, who have also made a difference in this world. Do you really begrudge that help?


*disclaimer* No, I'm still not back full time. But things are stalled right now at work as we wait for templates to arrive, and I am sneaking in some NS time. Yes, I accept I have a terrible addiction to NS. I accept that I am backsliding, that I have failed to sever ties with NS. I accept all of this, so hush. Don't even bring it up. This is a visit only, I SWEAR IT!*

Ok, first of all, I have been so poor at times in my life that not eating was a real possibility. Thanks to God, I have been doing extremely well in the last year or two as life-long sacrifices have finally begun paying off. For the first time in my life, I have disposable income for things like entertainment.

That said, it's not that your family didn't necessarily warrant help; it's just that it's not the government's role to provide that kind of help. People are individually obligated to help those less fortunate, not the government. Likewise, the moral consequences of charitable action or inaction fall on individuals. Obviously, governmental assistance can have some good results for some people, but it comes with a cost that I just don't believe the government has the moral authority to commit to.

Very true. Those who know what it is to be poor are generally just more generous when it comes to charity. I remeber on my paper route as a kid - the poorer houses would on average give a much bigger christmas tip than the rich ones, which struck me as pretty odd.


I'm a stingy tipper because I too often feel that tipees feel entitled to their tips and don't deserve as much as they think they do. I am nonetheless generous with my charitable contributions. That's just me.

absolutely

two words:

Ramen Noodles
[ Hurls! ]

Ahem! Sorry about that, but I just came through a period where I grew to absolutely HATE Ramen Noodles!

I've always been well-off and I'm very guilty about it. I'm a communist, so I think that the working class should take control of society, because without them, we have nothing. I'm ashamed the fact that 1 in 10 Americans are in poverty, and when people bring up the arguement that the ones in poverty are lazy it isn't true, because only 5% of the country is unemployed, meaning there are working people below the poverty point and people who are still poor but not in poverty. I say we issue every working citizen who can't afford a house an apartment, free health care, and acess to a good education. The state of America's schools (me being a student in one) is sickening. To fix this problem I say we make education a top priority and completely reform the system, by giving more funds to inner-city schools. Workers of the world unite!


Um, yeah, but America's "poor" aren't actually poor.

According to the U.S. census bureau:

12.1% of Americans are living in poverty. Of those:

46 percent of all poor households own their own homes. The average home owned by persons classified as poor by the Census Bureau is a three-bedroom house with one-and-a-half baths, a garage, and porch or patio.

— 76 percent of poor households have air conditioning. By contrast, 30 years ago, only 36 percent of the entire U.S. population enjoyed air conditioning.

— Only 6 percent of poor households are overcrowded. More than two-thirds have more than two rooms per person.

— The average poor American has more living space than the average individual living in Paris, London, Vienna, Athens and other European cities. (These comparisons are to the average citizens in foreign countries, not to those classified as poor.)

— Nearly three-quarters of poor households own a car; 30 percent own two or more cars.

— 97percent of poor households have a color television. Over half own two or more color televisions.

— 78 percent have a VCR or DVD player; 62 percent have cable or satellite TV reception.

— 73 percent own a microwave oven, more than half have a stereo, and a third have an automatic dishwasher.

Overall, the typical American defined as poor by the government has a car, air conditioning, a refrigerator, a stove, a clothes washer and dryer, and a microwave. He has two color televisions, cable or satellite TV reception, a VCR or DVD player, and a stereo. He is able to obtain medical care. His home is in good repair and is not overcrowded. By his own report, his family isn't hungry, and he had sufficient funds in the past year to meet his family's essential needs.

Is this really so shameful?

but most of the conviences listed before are quite cheap, when attained used. like a microwave. plus, look at it this way, a 43 dollar a month investment in sattelite television feels like you are giving your kids a little gift of luxury, and maybe it makes all the hand me downs less of a glaring reality. also, not being able to afford hard cover books, a lot of poor kids are brought up these days watching discovery kids, and other educational things, because parents have learned to use those programs as fodder for family discussion when you cant afford to go to the mall shopping, or out to the movies. i learn this from my neighbor, who is an awesome momof 6 kids, and has no money.

I think it's important to have had those experiences, be it being born into them, thrust into them through circumstances, or choosing them when you first strike out on your own, accidently or deliberately ...

I grew up comfortable because we didn't have much money, but it was more than 'not enough', and my parents were very careful with it ... my partner grew up with the same sensibilities, and it's helped us ...

We went through a time a few years ago where charity shops were our friends, where buying new 'work shoes' meant not buying anything else for a month or so, pawning things to pay bills, and, yes, knowing exactly how much all the cheapest food cost. A friend bringing us tinned food and bread because our landlord ate the last meal we had saved before we would get paid was propably the highlight of that one :P.

We're far out of it now,a nd we've worked for that and built something, but I think it's all the more appreciated because of where we were .. and I'm thankful I have the perspective ...

... I don't want to have to do it again :P.
pretty much the same here... growing up we lived in a large house that, after only a couple of years living there, we were suddenly unable to afford anymore - we did indeed go hungry at times, charity shops and that, and my parents really had nothing going for them (and have been bankrupt i believe). however they always pulled through for me - doing their best to buy me toys, paying (with unusually generous help from my money-hoarding grandmother) for a decent education for me. for this i am absolutley forever thankful and the bond we all share - due also in part to the way in which we all had to pull together to survive and stay sane - is unlike any i have seen or experienced with others in my life so far. they were great parental role models for me, and one day i hope to be able to do the same for my kids (though i do hope a little less painfully to be honest...)
sadly we lost the house in the (tory engineered) recession of '92, and things are still very tight. our house is ok and we eat farily well, we have a decent car and we managed to pay for me to go to uni... but all the time racking up more debts on the mountains we already have. my parents work from at least 6am to 7pm every day, usually putting in a couple more hours around midnight just to get the work done to pay the bills. their stress is unbearable and their health is suffering - i see it day by day and it makes me feel so sick. they started out poor (both farm labourer's children) and worked their way out of being poor... but that recession and the greed of others at the time, all coinciding, meant that they became poor once again... and once you become poor it takes a liftime to work your way out of it... meaning they're going to have to be working like this for the rest of their lives. its just not fair.


so, having been on both sides of the rich/poor divide, and now somewhere in the middle-ish, the whole experience has taught me that money isn't everything and being slaves to it or idolising it is a path to unpleasant places. i've learned to treat people like people, and with respect, even when its personally hard for you to do so - this also involves giving trust until proven otherwise, and giving the benefit of the doubt in applicable situations. i've learned that there's always hope in almost any situation so long as people stick together, that family is the most important thing in life, and that all you need is love.

unfortunatley i've become quite serious and up-tight for my age, cynical, bitter and angry at the world, have a depressive personality disorder to boot (quite probably as a result of all this), and avoid conflict as much as i possibly i can (can be quite meek), but there you go...