NationStates Jolt Archive

Okay, I know people have lost their homes, loved ones, pets, food, etc. And yes I have contributed to the cause to restore these items back in Louisiana, but what did they expect! Louisiana is already a couple feet below sea level (already underwater!) and these people stayed! I just don't understand, you live on the coast and a catagory 4 hurricaine is going to collied with you. I'd take what precious things I can and get the hell out of there. Now there are more deaths than they can count (people tried to avoid flooding by hiding in the attic!) I have little to no sympathy for those who stay. What do you guys think?

Okay, I know people have lost their homes, loved ones, pets, food, etc. And yes I have contributed to the cause to restore these items back in Louisiana, but what did they expect! Louisiana is already a couple feet below sea level (already underwater!) and these people stayed! I just don't understand, you live on the coast and a catagory 4 hurricaine is going to collied with you. I'd take what precious things I can and get the hell out of there. Now there are more deaths than they can count (people tried to avoid flooding by hiding in the attic!) I have little to no sympathy for those who stay. What do you guys think?
If they had the means and the ability to leave and stayed, yes, I agree with you. But many did not have the ability to leave ( aged, infirm, etc. ) and many more did not have the means ( no transportation ). Most of the latter were in effect betrayed by their local government, which allowed innumerable schoolbusses to sit without moving until the flooodwaters almost totally engulfed them. :(

I think this is going to turn in to a massive, heated debate, and possibly a flame war.

Either that, or all the people who have anything to say will have already said it in the last 20 or so threads on this topic, in which case this thread will die.

This is true (the bus thing) Hmmm...that brings some light into this converstaion. So now we blame government for their unruly way of handleing this situation? If people were truely concerned about people, they would help. But I just don't see it happening. Sure we donate money and maybe voluneteer at our local shealter once out of the year. But this Hurricane is a disaster because people just didnt' care enough.

If they had the means and the ability to leave and stayed, yes, I agree with you. But many did not have the ability to leave ( aged, infirm, etc. ) and many more did not have the means ( no transportation ). Most of the latter were in effect betrayed by their local government, which allowed innumerable schoolbusses to sit without moving until the flooodwaters almost totally engulfed them. :(

Not to mention the trains offered by AMTRAK. The airlines that refused to fly passengers out have a lot of blaim for many the tourists who got stuck. (They could have flown as late as Subday, but is my understanding they didn't because they didn't want to fly people in to NO. Fair enough - but flying in an empty plane or a plane load of possible needed cargo would have helped both the city, the tourists, and the airline's images.)


And as for hiding in the attic, if you were stuck with no car (the situation of something like 1/5 of the population of NO), no other transport, and the water is rising, where else are you going to go?

The simple solution would've been for the mayor to order a full mandatory evacuation, and get all police on the street and get them to make sure people get out of the city by any means. They could've ordered the city transit workers to take all the buses and put people on who had no means of leaving the city for free and help get them to higher ground.

Of course, I'm being idealistic...

The simple solution would've been for the mayor to order a full mandatory evacuation, and get all police on the street and get them to make sure people get out of the city by any means. They could've ordered the city transit workers to take all the buses and put people on who had no means of leaving the city for free and help get them to higher ground.

Of course, I'm being idealistic...
City Transit workers? Buses? What are these things?

Most of the latter were in effect betrayed by their local government, which allowed innumerable schoolbusses to sit without moving until the flooodwaters almost totally engulfed them. :(Blame anyone but the Federal Gov.

Blame anyone but the Federal Gov.
I don't recall schoolbus drivers being government employees.

The simple solution would've been for the mayor to order a full mandatory evacuation, and get all police on the street and get them to make sure people get out of the city by any means. They could've ordered the city transit workers to take all the buses and put people on who had no means of leaving the city for free and help get them to higher ground.

Of course, I'm being idealistic...Police, Firemen and other City Workers...Their homes and families were being destroyed by the Hurricane...

Levees disaster was too big...It needed federal resources...

City Transit workers? Buses? What are these things?
They are the means of transit for lazy people like he who don't want to bother to contend with soaring petrol prices. :p

I don't recall schoolbus drivers being government employees.read it slowly...and maybe...maybe you will get my point.

Okay, I know people have lost their homes, loved ones, pets, food, etc. And yes I have contributed to the cause to restore these items back in Louisiana, but what did they expect! Louisiana is already a couple feet below sea level (already underwater!) and these people stayed! I just don't understand, you live on the coast and a catagory 4 hurricaine is going to collied with you. I'd take what precious things I can and get the hell out of there. Now there are more deaths than they can count (people tried to avoid flooding by hiding in the attic!) I have little to no sympathy for those who stay. What do you guys think?

People also continue to live in Florida, despite its getting hit by hurricanes several times a year, and in California, despite the danger of earthquakes and mudslides, and don't forget Tornado Alley!

Truth is, no place is safe from natural disasters. You take your chances wherever you live.

Police, Firemen and other City Workers...Their homes and families were being destroyed by the Hurricane...

Levees disaster was too big...It needed federal resources...

Yes, the magic federal help...wave the wand,and it's all just like in a movie. Magic machines appear without having to travel across the country, without needing time to get there, with rescue crews beamed in, because they don't like, you know, need normal transportation, and in the magic federal world, nothing needs time to happen. I mean, it takes me 2 hours to get to work in the morning without any disasters, normal traffic, riding a bus, so federal help in the form of ??? would be able to travel from as far away as 2000 miles within about five minutes or less by magic federal transportation beams.

Yes, the magic federal help, from the sorcerer Bush, who was personally responsible for the existence of the hurricane Katrina, and directed it to hit New Orleans in the first place... :(

This nightmare scenario in NO is by no means unexpected. Many have warned about it for years. It was the predominant feature story in National Geographic one or two years back. The city engineers realized that:
A. the levees needed to be repaired, a large but worthwhile job, and
B. The Mississippi delta and wetlands needed to be restored to at least a semi natural state to protect se Louisiana, wich was falling into the gulf at a rate of 100s of acres a day. This can be remidied without really impeding industrial or residential development,and woul revitalize a failing fishery. The cost? two weeks of operations in Iraq.

In conclusion, the federal government is at fault for having not taking reccomendable measures to protect the area, and giving an inadaquate response when it came back to bite them.

The simple solution would've been for the mayor to order a full mandatory evacuation, and get all police on the street and get them to make sure people get out of the city by any means. They could've ordered the city transit workers to take all the buses and put people on who had no means of leaving the city for free and help get them to higher ground.
After seeing how many of the NO police behaved during and after the hurricaine, I have serious trust issues there. Other than that, you are correct, and there's nothing wrong with being idealistic. :)

After seeing how many of the NO police behaved during and after the hurricaine, I have serious trust issues there. Other than that, you are correct, and there's nothing wrong with being idealistic. :)
Opps... My mistake in that was that I didn't say before the hurricane. But yes, the trust issues are very important, as the NO police proved to be corrupt during a time of need.

as many have said, it calls to mind the fact that this country is not prepared for any type of disaster, natural or man made. homeland security was just another red tape beaurocracy , created for police departments in low crime areas to buy snazzy new bullet proof vests. it sad, and it sucks. and by all means, even if NO was a rich city and everyone had a car and lots of money, the traffic nightmare on that highway system would have prevented the mandatory evacuation from being effective. everyone would have drowned in their cars. shelters need to be set up ahead of time, like they are as SOON as a wildfire starts here in Southern California, and transportation needs to be available.

as for anyone who says they would have left- bullshit. i live in the seventh wealthiest county in the US, and i see multi-million dollar homes being "defended " from RAGING WILDFIRES by a ralph lauren clad homeowners with a freaking
GARDENHOSE each year. so dont even try to me that only the people in NO are too stupid to leave. hindsight is, as always, 20/20.

The simple solution would've been for the mayor to order a full mandatory evacuation, and get all police on the street and get them to make sure people get out of the city by any means. They could've ordered the city transit workers to take all the buses and put people on who had no means of leaving the city for free and help get them to higher ground.

Of course, I'm being idealistic...


A) The mayor DID order a mandatory evacuation.
b) a question for someone to answer. Are bus drivers neccessarily public employees? Or does New Orleans (like many other places) contract things like school bus driving out to a third party? And have bus drivers been officially deemed to be essential service providers so that they CAN be forced to stick around to drive others when their obvious preference would be to take care of their own families?

I mean - I'm an idealist. But I'm also a parent.

And my first duty is to get my own kids out of harm's way.


LAstly, getting people into the shelters WAS done. Personally I have heard no stories of anyone being turned away from the designated shelters - all of which DID survive the storm quite nicely.

A lot has been said about "get people out with the buses", but I have often wondered how many drivers were available, and if those drivers WERE ordered to take a full load and head out on the highway then how many people would not have made it to the designated shelters as there would have been NO transit available to them.

Frankly, in the face of incomplete data, keeping what buses he DID have running working as shuttles to get as many people as possible to local shelters might indeed have been the best choice the mayor had at his disposal.

This nightmare scenario in NO is by no means unexpected. Many have warned about it for years. It was the predominant feature story in National Geographic one or two years back. The city engineers realized that:
A. the levees needed to be repaired, a large but worthwhile job, and
B. The Mississippi delta and wetlands needed to be restored to at least a semi natural state to protect se Louisiana, wich was falling into the gulf at a rate of 100s of acres a day. This can be remidied without really impeding industrial or residential development,and woul revitalize a failing fishery. The cost? two weeks of operations in Iraq.

In conclusion, the federal government is at fault for having not taking reccomendable measures to protect the area, and giving an inadaquate response when it came back to bite them.

And of course, the local officials, closer to the problem, had no responsibility as far as going to the federal government and asking/lobbying for what was needed? And we want the federal goverment to go to every problem area and just start implementing changes to local geography because they feel like it, without even checking with the local residents and local government? So we really want a authoritarian/totalitarian centralized government with no local control? So lets get rid of the mayors, county officials, governors, and just have everything done from Washington DC?

Sounds great! And hey, while we're at it, lets get rid of those pesky elections and just have a king!

......and these people stayed! I just don't understand, you live on the coast and a catagory 4 hurricaine is going to collied with you. I'd take what precious things I can and get the hell out of there. Now there are more deaths than they can count (people tried to avoid flooding by hiding in the attic!) I have little to no sympathy for those who stay. What do you guys think?

There will always be those who stay because (for whatever reason) they want to.

However, we must have sympathy for those who could not leave - the poor, the disabled and the old who seem to have been abandoned to their fate by both local and state government.

Our hatred should be aimed at people who allowed this to happen:-

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/14092005/140/charged-oap-hurricane-deaths.html