NationStates Jolt Archive

Why does Isreal act like there the victom against terroristic moslems, when they themselfs employed the same tactics in the 30s and 40s remember in 1944 load moyne was assainated by them, also remember the only clam to the land in the middle east is religious nothing else, and there first PM was a well known terrorist,they continue to do human rights abuses against palistinions( they have 56 un resolutions against them for it), there treatment of them caused osama bin lauden to attack us, what do we as americans get? out of our support of them.

Um, if you plan to troll, could you at least SPELL things right?

Jesh, if I noticed the bad spelling, then it is really, really bad!

I forsee much wailing and gnashing of teeth followed shortly by a mod lock. No real answers though.

From the books I've read on the subject, Israel as a nation responds in a form of misplaced anger syndrome in a kind of defence as a result of the Holocaust. I don't follow it close enough to comment from my own opinion though.

I forsee much wailing and gnashing of teeth followed shortly by a mod lock. No real answers though.
*nods sagely* Especially as the Dark Lord has already locked one of his threads before today.

Is there some kind of poll/graph chart that someone can post that depicts how blind racism is proportional with bad grammar?

One man's terrorism is another man's valid tactic of war.

Plenty of people argue that nuking tens of thousands of innocent civilians in Hiroshima and Nagasaki to instill fear in their government to coerce it to surrender unconditionally qualifies as terrorism. But its amazing how rigidly some people assert killing $innocentciviliansforpoliticalgoals is sometimes terrorism (particularly if it's Islamic killers and Western civilians) while simultaneously not terrorism (particularly if it's Western killers and non-Western civilians).

Why does Isreal act like there the victom against terroristic moslems, when they themselfs employed the same tactics in the 30s and 40s remember in 1944 load moyne was assainated by them, also remember the only clam to the land in the middle east is religious nothing else, and there first PM was a well known terrorist,they continue to do human rights abuses against palistinions( they have 56 un resolutions against them for it), there treatment of them caused osama bin lauden to attack us, what do we as americans get? out of our support of them.

The assassination of Lord Moyne lead to the famous "hunting season" in which the Israeli government hunted down the terrorists responsible for the act and delivered between 700 and 1,000 of them to the British to be tried. Compare this to the reaction of the palestinians to terrorism and you'll see where the difference lies.

One man's terrorism is another man's valid tactic of war.

Plenty of people argue that nuking tens of thousands of innocent civilians in Hiroshima and Nagasaki to instill fear in their government to coerce it to surrender unconditionally qualifies as terrorism. But its amazing how rigidly some people assert killing $innocentciviliansforpoliticalgoals is sometimes terrorism (particularly if it's Islamic killers and Western civilians) while simultaneously not terrorism (particularly if it's Western killers and non-Western civilians).
i love how you are so well meaning that you are thinking the thread author could decipher that :D

What makes ISREAL act like they do

There's something in the knish.

i love how you are so well meaning that you are thinking the thread author could decipher that :D

Well he does correctly point out the claim to Israel in the middle east is religious - i.e, "the Bible says we belong here."

Turns out thats the same kind of reasoning many head PNAC members are liable to make too. I'm against people thumping religious texts to justify land grabs. And the "historical" claim doesnt sit with me either. 5000 years ago the US all belonged to native american tribes, shall we give the 500 nations nuclear weapons and bulldoze US neighborhoods and cities?

Well he does correctly point out the claim to Israel in the middle east is religious - i.e, "the Bible says we belong here."
You mean INcorrectly. Israel's claim for the land is not religious, but historical. It can be confirmed by any archaeologist worth his salt.

Well he does correctly point out the claim to Israel in the middle east is religious - i.e, "the Bible says we belong here."


It says in the Talmud that if Israel were taken by any other means than God's will (ie. military might) then ceaseless war would be the result.

No ... we (Jews) were evicted from Israel by God and only by God will we return.

I say give it all back to the Palestinians. All of it. We (Jews) lived just fine there, side by side with them, until 1948.

You mean INcorrectly. Israel's claim for the land is not religious, but historical. It can be confirmed by any archaeologist worth his salt.

Yeah and again I refer you to the native americans claim to all of North America, and propose the Israel solution of arming them with nuclear weapons and ridding the 'usurpers' via guns and bulldozers. "My ancestors thousands of years ago lived here" is not an accepted reason to kick ME out of my home - how about you?

Yeah and again I refer you to the native americans claim to all of North America, and propose the Israel solution of arming them with nuclear weapons and ridding the 'usurpers' via guns and bulldozers.

I'll take it! ;)

I'll take it! ;)

There aren't enough bulldozers. It would take something more, something like - I dunno - a hurricane!

[insert conspiracy theory here]

There aren't enough bulldozers. It would take something more, something like - I dunno - a hurricane!

[insert conspiracy theory here]

Rofl ... I knew all those rain dances would come in handy some day! I knew it!

Is there some kind of poll/graph chart that someone can post that depicts how blind racism is proportional with bad grammar?

I can't believe I actually started Excel for this:

http://pics.livejournal.com/quelconque/pic/0007764k

Quicky.

Yeah and again I refer you to the native americans claim to all of North America, and propose the Israel solution of arming them with nuclear weapons and ridding the 'usurpers' via guns and bulldozers. "My ancestors thousands of years ago lived here" is not an accepted reason to kick ME out of my home - how about you?

There is a difference though. The US is currently its own country. Now, consider the following situation.

The US government collapses after the next world war and the world is administering the former US and giving separate sectors their independence. A significant number of Navajo want to take that opportunity to request their ancestral home of North Dakota be returned to them. Im all for considering that option (although I would probably conclude it is a bad idea since there are so few of them). This is basically what happened in 1919 when the Zionists requested a Jewish state in their ancestral homeland after the collapse of the Ottoman Empire which ruled that region prior to World War I.


To better understand the full situation in Israel continue that line of thinking. North Dakota is returned to the Navajo, causing the North Dakotans to be very upset because they wanted their own state and now the state is controlled by Navajo. Because they cannot win a political or military victory, they turn to terrorist tactics. They decide that they will kill Navajo civilians at every chance as an attempt to keep pressure on the Navajo to return the land to North Dakotans. The Navajo get fed up with it and begin building walls to contain the North Dakotans. Etc, etc, etc.

Although this is one sentence, I'll try to address the points one by one.
Why does Isreal act like there the victom against terroristic moslems,Act? Israel has been plagued with islamic terror and hostile armies from its Arabic neighbors since before it was created. That makes them the victim of islamic terror, regardless of their actions.
when they themselfs employed the same tactics in the 30s and 40s remember in 1944 load moyne was assainated by them,And you fail to list proper points. With "load moyne" I take it you mean Lord Moyne (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lord_Moyne). What's your point? There's jewish extremists in Israel today, with the exception that Israel reigns them in whilst the Palestinian Authority fails to do the same with Hamas or Islamic Jihad. There have only been two incidents of terrorist actions by Israelis since I can remember, one of which was directed against an Israeli PM.
also remember the only clam to the land in the middle east is religious nothing else, And historical. The fact that a few religious fundamentalists view a far larger area than Israel and the occupied territories as theirs by right has little to do with the fact that the Jewish were indeed displaced from their homeland by numerous invasions.
and there first PM was a well known terrorist,Obviously not. I didn't hear of Ben Gurion being a terrorist. Perhaps you would care to mention what he did?
they continue to do human rights abuses against palistinions( they have 56 un resolutions against them for it), True. Everything Israel does isn't Kosher, yet I have the sneaking suspicion that you aren't qualified to judge that.
there treatment of them caused osama bin lauden to attack us, what do we as americans get? out of our support of them.Wrong. The fact that there are American soldiers stationed in Saudi Arabia has more to do with Islamic terror than the continued support of the only real democratic government in the area.

I can't believe I actually started Excel for this:

http://pics.livejournal.com/quelconque/pic/0007764k

Quicky.

It's a nice graph, but I think Enoch Powell throws the curve off a little bit.

I can't believe I actually started Excel for this:

http://pics.livejournal.com/quelconque/pic/0007764k

Quicky.
i love that. and what happened to your truly awesome sig? about tennis and eroding souls?

and what happened to your truly awesome sig? about tennis and eroding souls?

It's still there, isn't it? I can see it... but I can't see anyone else's! Weird.

EDIT: Oh, they're back now!

Yeah and again I refer you to the native americans claim to all of North America, and propose the Israel solution of arming them with nuclear weapons and ridding the 'usurpers' via guns and bulldozers. "My ancestors thousands of years ago lived here" is not an accepted reason to kick ME out of my home - how about you?
Oh I don't know. How long a period of exile does it take for a nation to lose its rights for land? 2000 years? 200 years? Why not 50 years?

It's still there, isn't it? I can see it... but I can't see anyone else's! Weird.


Wait .... doesn't tennis itself actually erode the human soul indirectly?

Good for you, cutting out the middle man!

Oh I don't know. How long a period of exile does it take for a nation to lose its rights for land? 2000 years? 200 years? Why not 50 years?


50 or even 200 years is arguable, but when you start having to refer to thousands of years old archaeological records as basis of modern property ownership thats where I draw the line.

It's a nice graph, but I think Enoch Powell throws the curve off a little bit.

This Enoch Powell? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enoch_Powellhttp://goto.glocalnet.net/quelconque1/fass.mp3) We can say he was an outlier... yeah... I used the Chebyshev theorem and calculated a z-score greater than 3, identifying him, and then transformed and normalised the data to eliminate him. ;)

This Enoch Powell? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enoch_Powellhttp://goto.glocalnet.net/quelconque1/fass.mp3) We can say he was an outlier... yeah... I used the Chebyshev theorem and calculated a z-score greater than 3, identifying him, and then transformed and normalised the data to eliminate him. ;)

Yeah, that's the Bunny.

Fair enough, he was very eloquent. I am not surprised he's an outlier.

Isreal deserves there land becuse(how many thousands of years ago it belonged to them) it once was theres our the bible says it was, well Germany has a right to prussia it once belonged to them and not just in a 3k or 4k but in a life time, the american indian using your same logic deserves north america (by the way i don,t feel anyone deserves right to land becuse thousands of years ago or hundreds of years ago, becuse there distant peoples lived there) if everyone in the world went by that the whole world would be on fire, as far as osama he on his broadcast after 9/11 said our support of isreal was one of the reasons(look at the type if you think i,m not truthfull) as far a Isreal gos the UN has condemied them on human rights abuses 56 times, and Isreal made me pay for Isreal settlers being moved the american tax payer, and they get 1/3 of all US aid and there the 16 richist country in the world, so attack me for my bad spellinng i,m a nazi, whatever but what i say is the truth, yet no reporter is allowed to go into the refugee camps and show the disfigument that has been brought down on the poor palistenion.

Yeah, that's the Bunny.

Fair enough, he was very eloquent. I am not surprised he's an outlier.

Or, we could simply say that the graph and data behind it only apply to the NS population. Just look at the post above this one. Incomprehensible. Not that I bothered to read that much of it...

well Germany has a right to prussia it once belonged to them and not just in a 3k or 4k but in a life time.Please don't use that specific example to further your ends. My German side of the family comes from East Prussia and I'm not to fond of Neo-Nazis abusing my heritage for their perverted agendas.

50 or even 200 years is arguable, but when you start having to refer to thousands of years old archaeological records as basis of modern property ownership thats where I draw the line.
Why draw the line there? What's the fundamental difference? And if 200 years is arguable, your own example of the US works against you.

As every European will easily show you, at least if he didn't sleep through his History class or made out with the cute girl next to him, land claims for "historical reasons" is quite pointless. Here I am, in Austria. Now, for historical reasons, and only reasons that date back about 100 years or so, I should lay claim to Hungary, Czechia, Slovenia, Croatia, large parts of Rumania, Bulgaria, even Poland and Ukraina. As well as Italy (never forget southern Tyrolia!). I'm sure Germany would love to have its eastern parts back (like east prussia or Silesia), even though we'd bicker endlessly over Silesia since they took it from us in 1740...

Folks? Can we be reasonable here? If Europe was to squabble about "historical rights" for some parts of it, ALL nations here would be locked in endless wars, from Spain (who'd certainly want to have Portugal back) to Russia (who certainly wouldn't mind reclaiming Finnland). And from Britain (who, in a way, still lay claim on Ireland) to the Turkey (who can only be glad that the east roman empire doesn't exist anymore, or there WOULD already be a big battle going on. But they sure wouldn't mind getting back the other half of the Balkan that didn't belong to the Austrian Empire).

Historical claims for land are moot and void. Period.

Historical claims for land are moot and void. Period.But you have a home country, don't you? ;)

Why does Isreal act like there the victom against terroristic moslems, when they themselfs employed the same tactics in the 30s and 40s remember in 1944 load moyne was assainated by them, also remember the only clam to the land in the middle east is religious nothing else, and there first PM was a well known terrorist,they continue to do human rights abuses against palistinions( they have 56 un resolutions against them for it), there treatment of them caused osama bin lauden to attack us, what do we as americans get? out of our support of them.


Who's there to stop them? Now if Israel had lots of oil well then they'd have been done away with as a shower of terrorists..but they have big friends and a kick ass military.

There's something in the knish.

Oh, knish! *hungry*

But you have a home country, don't you? ;)


No, you have the right to a nationality, not a country, but you don't have to have one i suppose.

But you have a home country, don't you? ;)

Everyone does. It's the place you were born in.

I do see the problem of the Jewish people, having been a minority in any country they went after the diaspora. But simply going to a place that once belonged to you and claiming it as yours isn't going to work out.

Everyone does. It's the place you were born in.

I do see the problem of the Jewish people, having been a minority in any country they went after the diaspora. But simply going to a place that once belonged to you and claiming it as yours isn't going to work out.That's not how they did it, though. They went there, and after a couple decades they claimed it.
Jewish settlers have been pouring into the holy land ever since the Turks had to hand it over to the British. In 1948, they declared their independence, about 20 years after the first real waves of settlers. As for the country you were born in idea, there's a little historical event that ruined that for many jews. They no longer wanted to be German and had every right to be Israeli.

Oh, knish! *hungry*

You want my recipe? :D

That's not how they did it, though. They went there, and after a couple decades they claimed it.
Jewish settlers have been pouring into the holy land ever since the Turks had to hand it over to the British. In 1948, they declared their independence, about 20 years after the first real waves of settlers. As for the country you were born in idea, there's a little historical event that ruined that for many jews. They no longer wanted to be German and had every right to be Israeli.

Who granted this "every right"? Certainly not the Palestinians.

Another question that comes to mind is simply, why the coexistance ceased to work after the British pulled out?

You want my recipe? :D

Of course!

Special sauce and all! ;)

Everyone does. It's the place you were born in.
Until the moment they tell you that actually, you don't quite belong where you were born. We Jews have been told that just about everywhere, in fact we've often been killed for living where we were born.

Another question that comes to mind is simply, why the coexistance ceased to work after the British pulled out?
You call the 1840 Damascus blood libel and anti-Jewish pogroms coexistence? You call the 1929 destruction of Jewish communities of Hebron and Kfar Darom co-existence? You call the bloody pro-Nazi Arab riots of 1936 co-existence? What on Earth are you talking about?

That's not how they did it, though. They went there, and after a couple decades they claimed it.

They did it wrong, though.

We cannot take Israel by military might. If we do, we're wrong.

God love the Israeli army, but they need to disband. I love my brother and sister jews, but Hashem will deliver us ..... not military might.

Who granted this "every right"? Certainly not the Palestinians.

Another question that comes to mind is simply, why the coexistance ceased to work after the British pulled out?No, the Palestinians didn't own the country either (so why should they have it? Give it back to the Turks! :p )
Why did things no longer work when the British were no longer there to keep the Arabs from attacking the Jewish settlers? Beats me...
I do remember which side was willing to adhere to the UN designated borders and which side shouted Death to Israel! back then, though.

You call the 1840 Damascus blood libel and anti-Jewish pogroms coexistence? You call the 1929 destruction of Jewish communities of Hebron and Kfar Darom co-existence? You call the bloody pro-Nazi Arab riots of 1936 co-existence? What on Earth are you talking about?

I know well that the Nazis weren't the only ones and not the first to start pogroms. They just led the most organized and thus the best known and most horrible ones in history. They were persecuted and killed for various reasons, or more often no reason at all except for what they are, throughout history.

But does that justify doing the same now? Is it your "right" to treat the palestinians that way, kicking them out of their "home", claiming their land and making them suffer in return?

Jews never reacted with terrorism, surprisingly enough. Throughout history, very, very few violent reactions are recorded to the mass murder that was executed on them, for most of it it was a quiet suffering, with faith in God and that He will one day end it.

But that's also what the Torah says, the land of God's Chosen can only be reinstalled by God Himself, it cannot be claimed by mundane means and will end in suffering and eternal struggle.

I do remember which side was willing to adhere to the UN designated borders and which side shouted Death to Israel! back then, though.

Well, quite frankly, if the UN decided that some part of a country that party A considered theirs now belongs to party B, which party do you think will wholeheartedly agree and which party will be quite angry?

Well, quite frankly, if the UN decided that some part of a country that party A considered theirs now belongs to party B, which party do you think will wholeheartedly agree and which party will be quite angry?Let's see:
Back then, Israel was for keeping the borders while the Arabs were against it.
Now, the Arabs are for keeping the borders while Israel is against it.
As you can see, both parties seemed capable of living with it at one point in time.

Let's see:
Back then, Israel was for keeping the borders while the Arabs were against it.
Now, the Arabs are for keeping the borders while Israel is against it.
As you can see, both parties seemed capable of living with it at one point in time.

Looks like a temporal problem. :)

I know well that the Nazis weren't the only ones and not the first to start pogroms. They just led the most organized and thus the best known and most horrible ones in history. They were persecuted and killed for various reasons, or more often no reason at all except for what they are, throughout history.

But does that justify doing the same now? Is it your "right" to treat the palestinians that way, kicking them out of their "home", claiming their land and making them suffer in return?
If this land is ours- and it is, there's simply no dispute about it except in the dedicated Israel hating circles- it is our inalienable right to institute independent statehood on this land. This is not the Torah, this is the UN Charter, plain simple. Every nation has the right for self-determination, and unless you hold to the opinion that Jews don't have the same rights as other people, we deserve self-determination too. And our right for self-determination can only be fulfilled on the land from which we came, which we owned and where we had statehood before. By creating Israel, we have fulfilled our inalienable right. The Arabs were offered a state alongside ours. In fact, they, and not the Brits or the UN, were the first to offer us statehood rather than an abstract "national home" (the Weizmann-Feisal accord). But they backstabbed us and tried to destroy us, and we fought back. No Arabs were expelled from Israel at the creation of the state, nor were they supposed to be- it was the war, declared by Arabs, that drove the Palestinian refugees out. If the Arabs accepted our right for self-determination, it would not have happened.


Jews never reacted with terrorism, surprisingly enough. Throughout history, very, very few violent reactions are recorded to the mass murder that was executed on them, for most of it it was a quiet suffering, with faith in God and that He will one day end it.
Ah yes. It was so nice and sweet when Jews were massacred over, and over, and over again in every place on Earth and all they did was pack their things, move elsewhere, start over and wait for the next massacre. It was such a beautiful quiet suffering, so inspiring to watch. A bit unpleasant to endure, of course, but only for the Jews, so it's no big deal really. And it was so rude and unfair that eventually the Jews decided to take up weapons, fortify themselves on a piece of land and tell the rest of the world to bugger off, because this is where it ends. No more quiet suffering, no more moving on and starting over. This is our home, this is where we belong and if you want to drive us out, it won't be easy anymore. If you decide to kill us, we won't be quiet anymore. This is Israel, and this is where it ends.


But that's also what the Torah says, the land of God's Chosen can only be reinstalled by God Himself, it cannot be claimed by mundane means and will end in suffering and eternal struggle.
You've been talking to some Neturei Karta moron, it seems.

The Torah and the TANAKH says that this land had to be claimed. The Jews, in fact, were forced to wander in the desert for additional 40 years exactly because they took a look at the power of the Canaanites and were afraid to fight them in order to claim the Promised Land. God won't do your work for you while you're sitting on your lazy bum doing nothing.

Well first off, Israel wasn't created until 1945 so Israelis didn't do the terrorist acts you speak of, the Palestinians who lived there did it against the British to get them out. Yeah, the rest of the world pretty much doesn't like Israel because of what they do, but they've been at war ever since they were a nation. People do horrible things when they are at war. What would you expect them to do, nothing? They get attacked, they retaliate. That's the way its been for 60 years. Doesn't mean it "should" be that way, but it is. Why don't you mention the behaviour of the Palestinians or the other Arab nations, they are more justified to commit terrorist acts or human rights abuses? That's one of many reasons why bin Laden attacked the US. Al-Qaeda will attack the US, no matter what we do, except if we become Islamic and follow his ideal. Israel was a problem from the get-go, but it not only provided a friend in the Middle East, a base of operations, and a democratic influence, but they kept the region in check. As was custom foreign policy for the West, as long as you keep giving us resources and stability, we'll turn the other way on freedom and liberty. The US gets all the aforementioned things, plus we have a small bit of history with them.

I'd just like to point out a few things about Israel. Israel is the only truly democratic country in the middle-east. They let Palestinians vote in elections and everything. There is high rate of literacy in Israel, unlike its neighbours. The Palestinians are not treated badly at all really (imagine how the Palestinians would treat the Israelis if the situation were reversed). If any other country was in Israel's position they would probably either deport or simply massacre the Palestinians. I say let's be fair on Israel for a change.

I posted this earlier but it was buried between large graphics and I dont think many people saw it. Just to clear up the lack of historic claim argument:

There is a difference between the proposal many people have made here to give the US back to the natives and what actually happened in Israel. The US is currently its own country while Palestine was not. Now, consider the following situation.

The US government collapses after the next world war and Great Britian is administering the former US through this period of chaos and giving separate sectors (California, New England, etc) their independence as they become ready to handle it. A significant number of Navajo want to take that opportunity to request their ancestral home of North Dakota be returned to them. Im all for considering that option (although I would probably conclude it is a bad idea since there are so few of them). This is basically what happened in 1919 when the Zionists requested a Jewish state in their ancestral homeland after the collapse of the Ottoman Empire which ruled that region prior to World War I.


To better understand the full situation in Israel continue that line of thinking. North Dakota is returned to the Navajo, causing the North Dakotans to be very upset because they wanted their own state and now the state is controlled by Navajo. Because they cannot win a political or military victory, they turn to terrorist tactics. They decide that they will kill Navajo civilians at every chance as an attempt to keep pressure on the Navajo to return the land to North Dakotans (even though North Dakota was never a country). The Navajo get fed up with it and begin building walls to contain the North Dakotans. Etc, etc, etc.

Hmm... you know, when kids fight over something and can't learn to share, their mother would usually take it off them and no one would get to keep it.

Maybe the UN should do that! Kick everyone off the land, bulldoze it, and turn it into the world's biggest peace garden. That'll teach 'em.

I would like to say what gives you jews the right to the land? what makes your claim your better then the toltecs, myans, aztecs to land you once owned but no longer do, i can get many of them up to bring you down,but i forget its in the bible is,t it? so whats our point? you brin terorisaim on mine and i,ve never done anything to anybody,but jews have to go besides historical stuff(i can show the moors should own much of spain) its bibilcal the bible says so.

I would like to say what gives you jews the right to the land? what makes your claim your better then the toltecs, myans, aztecs to land you once owned but no longer do, i can get many of them up to bring you down,but i forget its in the bible is,t it? so whats our point? you brin terorisaim on mine and i,ve never done anything to anybody,but jews have to go besides historical stuff(i can show the moors should own much of spain) its bibilcal the bible says so.
You haven't read a word of what other posters were saying, have you sunshine?

You haven't read a word of what other posters were saying, have you sunshine? Yes i have, but bottom llne. tryi to save o, best you bm ] hes an AMABAL

Yes i have, but bottom llne. tryi to save o, best you bm ] hes an AMABAL
Did anyone ever tell you that your posts are unreadable?

Did anyone ever tell you that your posts are unreadable?
Yup, many times in this thread.

Well he does correctly point out the claim to Israel in the middle east is religious - i.e, "the Bible says we belong here."

Turns out thats the same kind of reasoning many head PNAC members are liable to make too. I'm against people thumping religious texts to justify land grabs. And the "historical" claim doesnt sit with me either. 5000 years ago the US all belonged to native american tribes, shall we give the 500 nations nuclear weapons and bulldoze US neighborhoods and cities?
Isn't the Pallestinians claim to said land also a religious and historical claim?

Hold on, I will make a picture
http://img362.imageshack.us/img362/139/dontmesswithisrael6hy.th.jpg (http://img362.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dontmesswithisrael6hy.jpg)

We might not have this problem with the State of Israel existing except the Arabs somehow lost the War of Independence.

Israel was invaded by Egypt, Syria, Jordan, Iraq, Saudi Arabia and Lebanon and still managed to win.

Why does Isreal act like there the victom against terroristic moslems, when they themselfs employed the same tactics in the 30s and 40s remember in 1944 load moyne was assainated by them, also remember the only clam to the land in the middle east is religious nothing else, and there first PM was a well known terrorist,they continue to do human rights abuses against palistinions( they have 56 un resolutions against them for it), there treatment of them caused osama bin lauden to attack us, what do we as americans get? out of our support of them.
1) You claim that the only claim that Israel has to the land west of the Jordan is religious. You are either ignorant, or you're a liar. Emir Feisal granted the land to the Jews. That was in 1919 if I'm not mistaken. Plus the UN determined that Israel should be the Jewish homeland. That's two reasons why Israel has claim to that land and there are more.

2) You wonder why Israel maintains a strong defense. Maybe because many of their neighbors have threatened to exterminate them and because Nazis like you once tried to do just that.

3) Osama attacked us because he wanted to weaken the west and keep us out of the middle east so he could overthrow the regimes he sees as corrupt and replace them with a Muslim caliphate that would control the world's oil and about 1.2 billion people who can be called upon as an army of conquest in order to bring the world under sharia law. By choosing his side over Israel and democracy you are choosing to be a sheep led to slaughter.

We might not have this problem with the State of Israel existing except the Arabs somehow lost the War of Independence.

Israel was invaded by Egypt, Syria, Jordan, Iraq, Saudi Arabia and Lebanon and still managed to win.
Repeatedly.

Repeatedly.

To be fair it was with the continued support of the U.S. giving Israel military arms that helped their victories. Without it things would have been much more troublesome.

To be fair it was with the continued support of the U.S. giving Israel military arms that helped their victories. Without it things would have been much more troublesome.

The US is still propping Israel up I think. Aside from some ground vehicles and missile systems, I think a fair chunk of military hardware gets shipped from America to Israel as aid packages or something like that.

Hmmm, interesting thought. Given the constant use of military force that Israel has a habit of employing, perhaps one of the reasons why advanced weapons gets shipped there is so that they can get battlefield testing?

The US is still propping Israel up I think. Aside from some ground vehicles and missile systems, I think a fair chunk of military hardware gets shipped from America to Israel as aid packages or something like that.

Hmmm, interesting thought. Given the constant use of military force that Israel has a habit of employing, perhaps one of the reasons why advanced weapons gets shipped there is so that they can get battlefield testing?
Israel and the US jointly develop many weapons systems, like the new Arrow missile designed to shoot down incoming rockets. They work with us to help develop new weapons, why wouldn't we share what we've got with them?

Why is anyone taking this thread seriously?? It was clearly started as a troll fest- look at the thread starter!!

Ignore it and it'll go away. ;)


:fluffle: :fluffle:

What I find fascinating about the original post is that it gives a glimpse into the life of someone who has never seen English in its written form.

The Palestinians have there own country. It's called Jordan.
The West Bank used to be part of Trans-Jordan. Jordan lost that land after it attacked Israel shortly after it declared itself a nation.

The Palestinians are being used by other Arab states for 2 purposes. One is to take their own peoples minds off of the fact that they live in a dictatorship. The people can't protest the government and the clerics aren't allowed to say anything bad about the government either. But they can spew hate and anti-semitism all they want.

The other purpose is that the Arabs have never been able to defeat Israel in war. So they are using the Palestinians as a way to continue their war. They fill young people with hate and their cleric tells them that killing Jews is not only OK, it is their duty as a muslim.

If the Arab states really cared so much for their Palestinian brethren, they would have their own state by now. But that won't happen until the Arabs
embrace freedom. That will break the cycle that exists there.

ahem
Good work invoking Godwin's Law in your USER NAME!

The West Bank used to be part of Trans-Jordan. Jordan lost that land after it attacked Israel shortly after it declared itself a nation. Er, no, it's the other way around. The West Bank would've been part of Israel when Israel was founded, but Jordan managed to capture the area. The land wasn't lost until 1967.

Why does Isreal act like there the victom against terroristic moslems, when they themselfs employed the same tactics in the 30s and 40s remember in 1944 load moyne was assainated by them, also remember the only clam to the land in the middle east is religious nothing else, and there first PM was a well known terrorist,they continue to do human rights abuses against palistinions( they have 56 un resolutions against them for it), there treatment of them caused osama bin lauden to attack us, what do we as americans get? out of our support of them.

see, there is a little distinction your not picking up here. Israel conducted targeted assinations on individuals. Palestine terrorist target citizens and civilians indiscriminatly for the express purpose of killing innocent people (women and children).

I would like to say what gives you jews the right to the land? what makes your claim your better then the toltecs, myans, aztecs to land you once owned but no longer do, i can get many of them up to bring you down,but i forget its in the bible is,t it? so whats our point? you brin terorisaim on mine and i,ve never done anything to anybody,but jews have to go besides historical stuff(i can show the moors should own much of spain) its bibilcal the bible says so.Hm, so let's scrap historical reasons and keep things as they are now?

The US is still propping Israel up I think. Aside from some ground vehicles and missile systems, I think a fair chunk of military hardware gets shipped from America to Israel as aid packages or something like that.

Hmmm, interesting thought. Given the constant use of military force that Israel has a habit of employing, perhaps one of the reasons why advanced weapons gets shipped there is so that they can get battlefield testing?Hehe, Germany's been shipping military supplies secretly for years now. The Germans didn't want to admit it so that their relations with the Arabs wouldn't be strained and the Israeli Governments didn't want to admit it because of the reaction it would have caused with the population.

Hm, so let's scrap historical reasons and keep things as they are now?

I thought that now that the Jewish kings in the Bible have been backed up historically. Isreal and Judea were real countries so it would not just be biblical claims to the land anyway.

I thought that now that the Jewish kings in the Bible have been backed up historically. Isreal and Judea were real countries so it would not just be biblical claims to the land anyway.Well, I'm thinking that there's all this talk about how Israel stole the land from the Palestinians and they shouldn't have gotten it in the first place and we don't let the Navajo have parts of the US back...
And it made me think: By that logic, the Israelis aren't the Navajo in this case, they're the Americans, and denying them the right to the land they now own would technically mean giving the Navajo back their territory.

Even though this thread appears to be an attempt to troll, it seems to have turned into a legitimate discussion. That said, I think the thread's author really does believe this shit, which means he's skirting the line barely this side of legal, if you ask me. After a cursory review, I have decided to allow this thread its continued existence. I only read the first few pages though, so if I'm missing something, feel free to bring it up in Moderation.

Still, I'd venture to guess he'll abandon neo-Nazisim when he turns 12. Don't worry about it too much.

Israel and the US jointly develop many weapons systems, like the new Arrow missile designed to shoot down incoming rockets. They work with us to help develop new weapons, why wouldn't we share what we've got with them?

Israel jointly developed the F-16, M4-carbine, AH-64 and other jet craft in their employ? Funny, I thought it was McDonnel Douglas that did that (the aircraft).

But doesn't it make sense of a sort? Israel has it's army practically on wartime footing 24/7 and uses most of the conventional arms it has. It would make excellent battlefield testing to have your newly developed weapons sent there.

Israel jointly developed the F-16, M4-carbine, AH-64 and other jet craft in their employ? Funny, I thought it was McDonnel Douglas that did that (the aircraft).

But doesn't it make sense of a sort? Israel has it's army practically on wartime footing 24/7 and uses most of the conventional arms it has. It would make excellent battlefield testing to have your newly developed weapons sent there.

I'd say they have a pretty god reason to be on a wartime footing, they live next to people that have a nasty habit of trying to kill them. The Palestinians have been on the losing side of too many wars against Israel and the jewish people, including ww2. Hell, one Palestinian (Forget his name, but he was related to Arafat) wanted to build a concentration camp in Palestine. Instead of ranting against Israel why don't you rant about the fact that the Palestinian Authority does not seem to want to make any serious attempt at disarming the terrorist groups, such as Hamas or Islamic Jihad.

Even though this thread appears to be an attempt to troll, it seems to have turned into a legitimate discussion. That said, I think the thread's author really does believe this shit, which means he's skirting the line barely this side of legal, if you ask me. After a cursory review, I have decided to allow this thread its continued existence. I only read the first few pages though, so if I'm missing something, feel free to bring it up in Moderation.

Still, I'd venture to guess he'll abandon neo-Nazisim when he turns 12. Don't worry about it too much.
I turned 12 in 78, as far as beliving this stuff i do, my tax dollars go to fund a state i don,t like or belive should exsist or to relocate settlers off land they should,t have been on in the first place, the only reason america supports isreal is becuse of are own religion christanity(people for get jews tryed to get mel gibson movie the passion of christ from being made) and if it was,t fo the united states sending military equipment during all those wars isreal would already have been a bad memory.

I turned 12 in 78, as far as beliving this stuff i do, my tax dollars go to fund a state i don,t like or belive should exsist or to relocate settlers off land they should,t have been on in the first place, the only reason america supports isreal is becuse of are own religion christanity(people for get jews tryed to get mel gibson movie the passion of christ from being made) and if it was,t fo the united states sending military equipment during all those wars isreal would already have been a bad memory.
I think they defended themselves without US help very well, just ask Egypt.

The Israelis make better assault rifles then we do currently (TAR-21). I spit on the AR-15/M-16 and the bastard M-4. Until the XM8, OCIW and OCSW are done, that is.

I turned 12 in 78, as far as beliving this stuff i do, my tax dollars go to fund a state i don,t like or belive should exsist or to relocate settlers off land they should,t have been on in the first place, the only reason america supports isreal is becuse of are own religion christanity(people for get jews tryed to get mel gibson movie the passion of christ from being made) and if it was,t fo the united states sending military equipment during all those wars isreal would already have been a bad memory.
Somehow I'd tend to think that a 39 year old man would know basic grammar, spelling, and puncuation rules [or at least know how to spell 'Israel']; so you'll pardon me if I'm not quite prepared to swallow your bullshit. Every single one of your posts so far has been one enormous, run-on sentence, and I have yet to see a cogent idea escape your fingertips. If you want to be taken seriously on this forum, learn how to communicate properly.

While there are no site statutes governing policial ideology [i.e., you're free to think what you want], no constructive debate is likely to come from people who speak thusly. If I were you, I'd stick to stormfront. NS is probably going to end up being a colossal waste of your time. If your predecessors are any indication, I'd venture to guess you won't last very long here anyway.

The Israelis make better assault rifles then we do currently (TAR-21). I spit on the AR-15/M-16 and the bastard M-4. Until the XM8, OCIW and OCSW are done, that is.
That,s arguble you see allot of jews in isreal carry the good ole m16, i carry a colt LE 6920 and use lake city and Q3131A which is made in Isearl, and no one can argue that Isreal without the us would not exsist, they have allmost no natural resorces, and they were terrorists the first prime minister was a terrorist(do a serch on his name) just askthe britsh.

That,s arguble you see allot of jews in isreal carry the good ole m16, i carry a colt LE 6920 and use lake city and Q3131A which is made in Isearl, and no one can argue that Isreal without the us would not exsist, they have allmost no natural resorces, and they were terrorists the first prime minister was a terrorist(do a serch on his name) just askthe britsh.
So what is your point the US would never have existed with out the British or French, what difference does that make?

Are you stating that the US should withdraw all fiscal support for Israel and by doing so you think Israel would cease to exists?

That,s arguble you see allot of jews in isreal carry the good ole m16, i carry a colt LE 6920 and use lake city and Q3131A which is made in Isearl, and no one can argue that Isreal without the us would not exsist, they have allmost no natural resorces, and they were terrorists the first prime minister was a terrorist(do a serch on his name) just askthe britsh.
Hey, whatever gets the job done. I would not put it past them that the Israelis would find and procure other weapons would they not been provided by the U.S. At this point, I see the IDF soley developing arms and equipment to meet the needs of their soldiers but just like the U.S.M.C., they will use whatever is better be it U.S.-made, Israeli or German (Or Austrian, or Belgian, etc...). Also, I would like to point out that the Merkava tank is one of the best MBTs in the world and was designed by an Israeli. The U.S. tends to give Israeli hand-me-downs (like those 25 Avengers [TOW-equiped HMMVEEs]they gave them a few years back), but the good stuff Israel had to PAY for.

I honestly don't care about tagging people as terrorists. At least to me, abstract warfare is what it is: the poor man's atomic bomb (acredited to Pablo Escobar)or: How to Fight a War on $100 a Day.

Somehow I'd tend to think that a 39 year old man would know basic grammar, spelling, and puncuation rules [or at least know how to spell 'Israel']; so you'll pardon me if I'm not quite prepared to swallow your bullshit. Every single one of your posts so far has been one enormous, run-on sentence, and I have yet to see a cogent idea escape your fingertips. If you want to be taken seriously on this forum, learn how to communicate properly.

While there are no site statutes governing policial ideology [i.e., you're free to think what you want], no constructive debate is likely to come from people who speak thusly. If I were you, I'd stick to stormfront. NS is probably going to end up being a colossal waste of your time. If your predecessors are any indication, I'd venture to guess you won't last very long here anyway.As far as my grammer goes i,d either been in the service or worked in a factory and nether one payed me for my spelling, as far as being taken serously on here not gonna happen i have a unpopular veiw point, as far as lasting you,re right this board is dominated by jews or jew lovers, who belive America whole reason for esitance is to support them, like us attacking Iraq which is an upopular war in america and getting more unpopular everyday, even some republicans qustion our exsit stratagy.

an upopular war in america and getting more unpopular everyday, even some republicans qustion our exsit stratagy.
And I bet they need you on their side. Write their speeches, and you may get to be payed for spelling for a change.

Its all that psychedelic music.

Say what you will about me give a shit, still does,t change the fact Isreal only right to exsist is though force of arms, Isreal has as much right to exsist as you have to give your neighbors house, to your relatives and force your neighbour to live in the street, Isreal is an apartheid state(like south africa was) becuse of the way the Israeli government(with the support of most Isrealis)treats Arabs within its borders as second class citizens and becuse of its attempts to destroy palestinian society in the occupied territories so as to rid the land of arabs and make it suitable for Isreail annnexation, we came down hard on south africa for that same policy and they said they were fighting communists and terrorists and thats the measures they had to use to fight it, remember they to had to fight a terrorist organazation called the ANC.

Say what you will about me give a shit, still does,t change the fact Isreal only right to exsist is though force of arms, Isreal has as much right to exsist as you have to give your neighbors house, to your relatives and force your neighbour to live in the street, Isreal is an apartheid state(like south africa was) becuse of the way the Israeli government(with the support of most Isrealis)treats Arabs within its borders as second class citizens and becuse of its attempts to destroy palestinian society in the occupied territories so as to rid the land of arabs and make it suitable for Isreail annnexation, we came down hard on south africa for that same policy and they said they were fighting communists and terrorists and thats the measures they had to use to fight it, remember they to had to fight a terrorist organazation called the ANC.
Clearly you are incapable of reading because your point that Israel's only right to exists comes through force of arms has already been debunked. Either you dont' understand what others are writing, or you choose not to listen. Either way it's pointless to talk to you. Have fun in your little compound in the woods. Bye.

Not to me, and if you go by we lived here thousands of years ago is the only rule, then all of euorpe would have a claim to others land, germany claim to the polish corrider was rightious,no you hav,t proved anything.
For 20 years Israeli goverments have attempted to portray anyone who forcefully criticises the polices of Isreal as anti-semitic. the truth is the opposite:the same universal human values that reconize the Holocaust as the greatest racist crime of the 20th century require condemnation of the policies of successive Isreali goverments not on the absurd grounds that they are Nazi or equivalent to the Holocaust,but becuse ethnic cleansing, discrimination and terror are immoral.

the same universal human values that reconize the Holocaust as the greatest racist crime of the 20th century require condemnation of the policies of successive Isreali goverments not on the absurd grounds that they are Nazi or equivalent to the Holocaust,but becuse ethnic cleansing, discrimination and terror are immoral.
You sure are original, I give you that. Did you bother to read what the dogma you claim to follow argues for itself? Nazism IS hatred, AND murder, AND selection according to birth. Sure, you don't register many votes with even the scum of the Earth if you claim to be responsible for mass-murder on this scale - but let's take a moment to read any passage from Hitler's work (any, at random) and we'll find that the character of nazism as murder-instigating arises from virtually every word. The fact that you call yourself a "nazi" shows your superficial contact with that crap - the word is an outsider's definition, mostly ironic. "Superficial contact" is good, though: you may still become ashamed of it sometime in the future, and may become freed from such nonsense.

i,m a National Socolist, And its the polices of the Isreaeil goverments, especially in the past two decades, that have provoked widespread anti-jewish feelings in europe and elsehere, bottom line people don,t like it when you bulldoze a whole apartment bulliding becuse one of the tenets did an act of terrorisim, thats saying everyone is gulity though assoation.