NationStates Jolt Archive

Apparently the american state of Pennsylvania (dont know if i´m writting it correctly) strips convicts from the right to vote; it further denies ex-felons the said right and only reinsates it five years after they fnish parole. Is any of this true? If so, do you agree or disagree?

Dunno whether it's true or not, but I'm all for it. If a criminal takes away the basic rights of another (safety, property etc), then I see no problem with the State, or anyone else, taking away their basic rights (which can include suffrage). Here in the UK prisoners cannot vote, though I think that as soon as they are released they can rejoin the electoral register.

no

Is it morally right for a felon to commit a felony and often times, deprive someone else of their constitional rights?
Felons should never have their rights reinstated.

As a citizen of a country u hav rights and responsiblitys, when u abuse ur responiblitys (breaking the law) u should lose some of your rights.

No, it is utterly wrong. Everyone has the right to vote, even convicted felons. (Unless they were convicted for cheating on the ballot, of course.)

"Is it morally right to take voting rights away from convicts and ex-felons?"

Yes. Voting is a privilege as well as a right and should be taken away from anyone convicted of a felony.

In a country that claims that freedom rules and that after a person has done their time they have paid their debt to society, how can they even justify it? Of course ex-felons should be allowed to vote! However, I don't per se have a problem with people currently serving time in prison not being allowed to vote. But once they have served their time, they should have the same rights as everyone else.

it seems some civil rights activists claim that such a policy is discriminatory on the grounds of race, since in some areas convicts belong mostly to minorities...they further say that to deny a ex-felon the right to vote in no way helps his rehabilitation.

"Is it morally right to take voting rights away from convicts and ex-felons?"

Yes. Voting is a privilege as well as a right and should be taken away from anyone convicted of a felony.Until such time as they have proven that they are once again productive and healthy members of society...

I believe they should have the right to petition reinstatement of Civil Liberties, but until they do so, and are adjudicated "reformed" their Liberties should remain curtailed. This gives "one-timers", "mistakes happen" and the "system-screwed" a chance to rebuild and somthing to shoot for.

no felons shouldnt be allowed to vote. same goes for the dead but we all know how those things go :rolleyes:

As a citizen of a country u hav rights and responsiblitys, when u abuse ur responiblitys (breaking the law) u should lose some of your rights.Yes, a lot of people seem to miss the bit about responsibilities when talking about rights.

In a country that claims that freedom rules and that after a person has done their time they have paid their debt to society, how can they even justify it? Of course ex-felons should be allowed to vote! However, I don't per se have a problem with people currently serving time in prison not being allowed to vote. But once they have served their time, they should have the same rights as everyone else.
I tend to agree. While I'm not thrilled about the concept of 'debt to society' , it should stand to reason that once said 'debt' is paid, one can continue living their life normally.

The purpose of our prison syystem is ostensibly one of 'rehabilitation,' that is to say that our Justice system believes that a jail term can have the potential to turn its denizens into normal members of society again. If rehabilitation is the purpose of imprisonment, then why don't we treat these people as rehabilitated when they get out? I'm not trying to claim that prison terms are actually even very [i]good at this, but if that's the purpose we choose to apply, we need to start adhering to it. If we strip them of certain rights after they're let out, the admission here is that prisons aren't really insitutions for rehabilitation, but rather they exist as deterrents.

no felons shouldnt be allowed to vote. same goes for the dead but we all know how those things go :rolleyes:

Hey, in the USA the dead can even win elections..lol :p

Not at all, the government sets up a system of living, you break the rules of the system you should no longer be enabled to participate in the benefits of the system.

perhaps a good legal system would be to deter the criminal then if the act is committed rehabilation follows afterward.

they probally never voted in the first place. so who really cares?

they probally never voted in the first place. so who really cares?
Oh, i suppose thats the deciding reason...in that line of thinking, you could strip people that dont usually vote of their voting rights too.

Governments do it because felons aren't exactly going to vote the people who threw in them into gaol.

Oh, i suppose thats the deciding reason...in that line of thinking, you could strip people that dont usually vote of their voting rights too.
my thoughts exactly.

You know I'm pretty sure that Felons can't vote anywhere in the US, not just Pennsylvania.

my thoughts exactly.
so, just make vote mandatory, right?

You know I'm pretty sure that Felons can't vote anywhere in the US, not just Pennsylvania.
hum...thanks, that ended my doubt.

first of all, i don't think that the question should be of that moral rightness but whether it's democratically right.

yes, of course there are responsibilties connected to your rights.

in order to enjoy the complete set of freedoms granted to US citizens, you ahve to abide by the laws. if you do not do that, you lose some of those rights.
e.g., you'll end up in prison and are therefore deprived of your right to chose where you want to live, what you want to eat, do, etc..

but you cannot say "if you don't abide by the law, we have the right to deprive you of any rights and priviledges we fancy to take away from you".

if you break the law, you'll be sentenced to something. accordng to he degree of what you did, it'll be fines, prison, etc. it si common knowledge that those are the consequences, and it is okay to apply them as wrong behavor must be punished.

but it is not okay to take away additional rights at will.

SoWiBi, I hate to burst your bubble but in any instance of judging right and wrong, the benchmark of morality must be applied. You can't say somethng is 'right' or 'wrong' without relying on a moral axiom. Even if you want to talk about what's 'democratically' right, you're resting that conclusion on a moral axiom [self rule] whether you know it or not.

It is an intersting issue but should be split: first, is it morally right to take voting rights from convicts; second is it morally right to take voting rights from ex-convicts once they have served their sentence; third (not the case in PA), is it morally right to strip ex-convicts of their voting rights permantly?


As a note, I am not sure how one would go about becoming an ex-felon. Commit a felony and then invent a time machine and use it to stop oneself from commiting the felony?

No, it is utterly wrong. Everyone has the right to vote, even convicted felons. (Unless they were convicted for cheating on the ballot, of course.)

I disagree, convicted felons should neither have the right to vote while in prison or on parole, nor have the opportunity to run for public office.

While I agree that this is a free country, they must pay for the crime. After parole is done and they have proven to be upright citizens again, sure they can vote. Otherwise, there is no goal for becoming a better citizen.

alright, melkor.
ought to have said more clearly what i meant.
'course the democratic rules are founded upon moral beliefs.
what i wanted to say is that this specific question ought to be decided by the thought of whether taking suffrage from felons is legal within the democratic concept, and not whether it is considered moral by an indivdual's view on morals.

i, e.g., do not consider it moral to put libertarian ideas above the caring for welfare and education, but i'm still all for allowing a party following those lines cuz that is what democratic plurality demands.

so, just make vote mandatory, right?
yes.

Is it morally right to take voting rights away from convicts and ex-felons?
Yes. Do you think that the criminals thought about depriving others of their rights?

I bet some politicians could really use the ex-con vote... ;)

In a country that claims that freedom rules and that after a person has done their time they have paid their debt to society, how can they even justify it? Of course ex-felons should be allowed to vote! However, I don't per se have a problem with people currently serving time in prison not being allowed to vote. But once they have served their time, they should have the same rights as everyone else.


i completely agree,once you have "paid your debt to society" you should have your rights restored.while in prison..no,and of coarse you will have a hard time getting a decent job after released so thats sorta a continuing punishment even after your debt is paid..however companies have every right to decide who they hire.

I, being a Brit, have no idea what a felon is, although I assume it's some kind of federal offence.

However, I feel that ex-convicts do have the right to vote. Driving, for example, is a privelidge (pardon the spelling), but voting is more than a right, it is a must. How can you expect ex-convicts to become fully-fledged members of society when you take away their ability to take part in the democratic process that shapes society itself?

I can understand removing voting rights to those in jail, but after they have supposedly done their time, those rights should be restored, so they might become members of society once again.

Of course they should be allowed to vote. Voting is not so much a right as a social-duty. I dont think unnecessarily taking any chance of doing one's societal duty away from any citizen is in anyone's interests.

Apparently the american state of Pennsylvania (dont know if i´m writting it correctly) strips convicts from the right to vote; it further denies ex-felons the said right and only reinsates it five years after they fnish parole. Is any of this true? If so, do you agree or disagree?

The whole point of prison is a removal of a person's rights due to punishment. Only the right to appeal and other legal rights are allowed.

The more I think about it, the more inclined I am to think that politicians would avoid this demographic like the plague anyway. Who the hell wants to be known as the guy who got in office because he won the prison demographic? That'll look great on your resume: "9 out of 10 rapists want me in office! Both Bubba and his bitch voted for me!"

a right, ain't a right, if it can be taken away.


I do not believe felons should be denied.


Wisconsin too, denies felons the vote until they are out
of the system. This includes probation and parole as well.
But at least they get it back.


Unless I am wrong, most of the states in the south,
deny felons the vote and do not return it ever.
I have also heard that these laws were put in place
a long time ago, like after the civil war when the slave were freed.
Gee, I wonder why?
(See Florida and a little movie titled "Unprecedented"
http://www.unprecedented.org/ )

These laws should all be revoked and people in prison should
get to vote too.

So maybe voting isn't a right, but a privalege?
Rights are inaliable. Meaning we have them by simply being alive.
Speech. Freedom of religion (belief). Freedom of press(to spread
word of those trying to take our inaliable rights).

Voting?
If we humans form any sort of institution to do things collectively
in our name for us (such as a gov't), no one should be denied
a say(vote) if it affects them.

Lower the voting age to 2!

The whole point of prison is a removal of a person's rights due to punishment. Only the right to appeal and other legal rights are allowed.
The whole point of sentencing a person to a particular finite period of time in prison is have a definite end to the punishment and an end to the removal of any rights taken away during incarceration/punishment.

I dont believe it is morally right because it carries punishment over far beyond the original sentence. If you do a crime you should be able to do your time and then move on.

There is such a thing as rehabilitation. There are countless biographies of former gang members, drug dealers, and even murderers who turned their life around and became major contributors to society. A shining example is Judge Greg Mathis of tv show fame. He is an ex gang member who was caught selling drugs, spent some time in jail then turned his life around. He went to law school and became an attourney, then was elected as a judge in Detroit. Currently, he works as an arbitrator on his TV show "Judge Mathis" and does a great deal of volunteer work, mostly with inner city youth. Should this upstanding citizen not be able to vote?

Being a criminal has nothing to do with your ability to elect a political candidate and I see no logic for preventing ex-convicts from voting.

I think every citizen who is of age must have the right to vote. Otherwise, the system has no right to call itself a democracy.
The fact that a person committed a criminal act and got convicted is being punished by jailt time, not by removing civil rights for years to come.

There's a legitimate argument to taking away the right to vote while you're in jail. That argument, in my mind, lessens once a person is out, whether on parole or completely finished with the sentence. But once a sentence is complete, it's immoral to my mind to continue to keep him or her from voting.

If the felon has paid their debt to society, they should be able to vote. They've paid their debt and it isn't fair to punish them for life when their crime only called for a couple of years in prison.

No rights should be taken away without due process, of course, but I don't think people who are currently paying their debt (in prison or on probation) should be allowed to vote. They must pay society back first and foremost.

Dunno whether it's true or not, but I'm all for it. If a criminal takes away the basic rights of another (safety, property etc), then I see no problem with the State, or anyone else, taking away their basic rights (which can include suffrage). Here in the UK prisoners cannot vote, though I think that as soon as they are released they can rejoin the electoral register.


What are you? A Moron? What basic rights have american criminals taken from you? Do you realize that 85% of our prison population is incarcerated for drugs? This, in a nation in which it's nearly impossible to prosecute a rape charge.

If you're going to spout non-sensicle drivel, at least have the decency to distinguish between violient criminals and non-violent offenders.

:rolleyes:

What are you? A Moron? What basic rights have american criminals taken from you? Do you realize that 85% of our prison population is incarcerated for drugs? This, in a nation in which it's nearly impossible to prosecute a rape charge.

If you're going to spout non-sensicle drivel, at least have the decency to distinguish between violient criminals and non-violent offenders.

:rolleyes:

Congradulations on beginning your posting career with the phrase "what are you? a moron?". You will probably be well liked here. :rolleyes:

no
I agree

Congradulations on beginning your posting career with the phrase "what are you? a moron?". You will probably be well liked here. :rolleyes:


Hey ... mine began with "Look, you stupid cow" ... so it's plausable.

Yes. For a very simple reason: If they're not allowed to vote, part of their punishment never ends.

A jail sentence is supposedly the "payment" for their crime. You did something wrong, you go to jail. And depending on how severe your crime was, you come out again (if severe enough, you won't...). After that, you paid for your offense. It's much like a parking ticket on a bigger scale. You wrongfully put your car somewhere, you pay your fine, then it's over. You remember you had to pay, you'll hopefully learn not to do it again (or at least, don't get caught again... different matter).

If you do not reinstall all his civil rights, you keep him imprisoned, in a way. You force him to bear the stigma of being a criminal infinitly, and this in turn doesn't help at all in the attempt to make him a "valuable member of society" again. If people don't feel society forgives them, at least after they did time for their offense, they won't easily reintegrate. Would you want to reintegrate into a society that doesn't want you?