NationStates Jolt Archive

From time to time, tension in the international arena flames up between the US and China over the secessionist island of Tawian. China mantains a assertive claim to integrate Taiwan in its territory, by force if need be, while the US still vows to defend Taiwan from any agressive action from China. Do you think that Taiwan will ever formally declare its independence? If such ever comes to pass, will China respond by a declaration of war? Will the US comply with their defense obligations toward its allie? Can a conventional conflict escalate into nuclear war? Or will the current state of affairs where only sabre-rattling is allowed remain in place for the forseeable future?

No. One word explains why: Wal-Mart.

The majority of ROC (Republic of China= official name of "Taiwan") citizen are for status quo right now (around 85%). US of A support the status quo not the independence because a conflict in the region will not benefit USA.
There are progress in the cross straits conflict lately, both parties exchanged grass roots officials, PRC lifted tarriff on ROC fruit export and allowed commercial ROC planes to fly through PRC air territory.

I find it SO FUNNY that the Guomindang and Communist Party are seeing eye to eye on this issue, and this issue only.

As crazy as some of Sergio the First's threads seem to be, this one isn't.

The US Army is over stretched so it wouldn't be able to repsond to a Chinese military threat in Aisa, so if China wanted to invade Taiwan they could do so successfully and without too many problems.

Australia would be one of the next countries on the Chinese shopping list, not because of its great farm land :P, but just because of power hungry dictators in in the Chinese communist government who want Chinese World Domination. And with a conscripted Chinese Army of around 100-200 million soldiers, you can pretty much say they have a good chance of over powering any Asian or Oceanic country.

This wont happen for a decade or two, when China gain the technological advantage over their Asian neighbours, until then they wont try anything silly.

Suffice to say like all previous world domination efforts, the Romans, the British, the Nazi's, the Chinese will fail, simply because of over confidence. They will invade North America through the Behring Straits before consolidating and over stretch their Army.

300 million trigger happy yanks with guns will also not help their cause, lol.

*snip*

As far as I can tell, their idea of invading a nation involves buying up all the assets and property then taxing the residents. If it works though, it's got to be a first. Buying out a nation.

If I were mapping out a strategy for dealing with a possible Chinese threat to Taiwan, I would first be marshalling my resources by reducing committments in locations that have less strategic importance to the United States. Secondly, I'd be hard at work building a coalition against China. Third of all, I would rescind any "most favoured nation" trading status as a shot across the bow.

If the situation escalates, I'd rather use economic sanctions and the recall of American embassy and consular staffs than a straight up military threat right off the bat. Having said that, I would continue to be building up in the event I'm forced to use the military. But I'd be looking at the Ready Reserve and start quick refits of ships in mothballs or whatnot and start calling up national reserve units to train for a major action.

I have been saying for years that China is the U.S.'s next major enemy. Recently, a report of the Chinese military buildup that American intel somehow missed indicated the Chinese consider the U.S. an enemy. Well, it's time to start treating China like the enemy they are.

As crazy as some of Sergio the First's threads seem to be, this one isn't.

The US Army is over stretched so it wouldn't be able to repsond to a Chinese military threat in Aisa, so if China wanted to invade Taiwan they could do so successfully and without too many problems.

Australia would be one of the next countries on the Chinese shopping list, not because of its great farm land :P, but just because of power hungry dictators in in the Chinese communist government who want Chinese World Domination. And with a conscripted Chinese Army of around 100-200 million soldiers, you can pretty much say they have a good chance of over powering any Asian or Oceanic country.

This wont happen for a decade or two, when China gain the technological advantage over their Asian neighbours, until then they wont try anything silly.

Suffice to say like all previous world domination efforts, the Romans, the British, the Nazi's, the Chinese will fail, simply because of over confidence. They will invade North America through the Behring Straits before consolidating and over stretch their Army.

300 million trigger happy yanks with guns will also not help their cause, lol.
There is a parallel thread on conspiracy theories. Maybe you should post this stuff there.

Have you ever considered that the more aggro you are towards China the more aggro they get?

Also, they do not exist in an island somewhere, they sit right next to the powder-keg that is the Indian Subcontinent, If I was there looking at all the US/Russian gear being stockpiled by each side I'd be getting ready for a scrap too. Not to mention India and China have had a go at each other before, they might again.

The Chinese military is currently being shaped for short, high intensity scraps around it's own borders. In other words, if any neighboring countries go nuts or Taiwan starts pushing it that's what it's for. I don't think they even consider the US an enemy in terms of a war of conquest.

Economics would get in the way, first. Hard to equip that modern army when you can't pay for anything.

I doubt it.

Whatever else China is, and it is many bad things, it is also sane enough to avoid such an encounter.

The rhetoric will always be inflamatory, but the fact remains that the status quo at the minute is very good for China - is Taiwan really worth enough to risk upsetting the apple cart that badly?

Even if America could not respond militarily - and I doubt it would because regardless of rhetoric, how many Americans REALLY want to enter such a devastating war over Taiwan? There is still a good chance of economic sanctions or penalties. Neither America nor China will want that.

course they wont go to war wid china they wont go to war with korea or zimbabwe so why china,
and china isnt such a bad country these days i like it know.

There is a parallel thread on conspiracy theories. Maybe you should post this stuff there.
I think you are deluding yourself, shoving your head under the sand if you will by ignoring such a realistic and thesiable threat.

By all means believe China is a nice friendly democracy that wouldn't dream of military action against another country, but im afraid mate it will just make the slap in the face harder when they start to take military action...

As crazy as some of Sergio the First's threads seem to be, this one isn't.

The US Army is over stretched so it wouldn't be able to repsond to a Chinese military threat in Aisa, so if China wanted to invade Taiwan they could do so successfully and without too many problems.
I highly doubt that:
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ops/taiwan-d-day.htm
Even without US help the RoC will be able to withstand and throw off any invasion force trying to land, and that's ignoring the fact that there will be several CVN battlegroups in the area.

Australia would be one of the next countries on the Chinese shopping list, not because of its great farm land :P, but just because of power hungry dictators in in the Chinese communist government who want Chinese World Domination. And with a conscripted Chinese Army of around 100-200 million soldiers, you can pretty much say they have a good chance of over powering any Asian or Oceanic country.
China can't even invade Taiwan and guarantee a win, how are they going to take on Austrailia? Even if they get two decades to develop, their neighbors arn't just going to sit on their hands and wait for the Chinese Horde to become even more militant.

And with a conscripted Chinese Army of around 100-200 million soldiers, you can pretty much say they have a good chance of over powering any Asian or Oceanic country.


Erm..the Chinese Army actually number around 1-2.5 million at the moment.


For China to be successful in invading Taiwan, it would have to be a quick and precise measure, to show the world it was in control of Taiwan quickly.

Anything messy and the international community may do more than just vocally lamenting.

I personally don't think the US would go to war with China over Taiwan, it is my view that America does not see Taiwan worth a full out war between the US and China.

Certainly the administration would protest, scream, and may move battleships closer, but I doubt they will intervene.

But all this aside, Taiwan watches China's increasing business wealth and it wants a piece of that wealth. Taiwan may well just quietly return to Beijing's fold.

As crazy as some of Sergio the First's threads seem to be, this one isn't.

The US Army is over stretched so it wouldn't be able to repsond to a Chinese military threat in Aisa, so if China wanted to invade Taiwan they could do so successfully and without too many problems.

Australia would be one of the next countries on the Chinese shopping list, not because of its great farm land :P, but just because of power hungry dictators in in the Chinese communist government who want Chinese World Domination. And with a conscripted Chinese Army of around 100-200 million soldiers, you can pretty much say they have a good chance of over powering any Asian or Oceanic country.

This wont happen for a decade or two, when China gain the technological advantage over their Asian neighbours, until then they wont try anything silly.

Suffice to say like all previous world domination efforts, the Romans, the British, the Nazi's, the Chinese will fail, simply because of over confidence. They will invade North America through the Behring Straits before consolidating and over stretch their Army.

300 million trigger happy yanks with guns will also not help their cause, lol.
I´m a crazy-threads mogul? Why thank you, thats the nicest thing i heard all week! :D
Still, dont you think commerce will be the ultimate deterrent for any Chinese hunger for expansionism? I seem to recall some theory by an american schollar, the "Golden arches" theory, i think thats what it´s called, that claimed that countries that harboured McDonalds restaurants would never wage war on each other...

Australia would be one of the next countries on the Chinese shopping list, not because of its great farm land :P, but just because of power hungry dictators in in the Chinese communist government who want Chinese World Domination. And with a conscripted Chinese Army of around 100-200 million soldiers, you can pretty much say they have a good chance of over powering any Asian or Oceanic country.

Yep, that's right. Building a huge army is the main goal of the Chinese government and that's why they instituted the one child policy. Wake up and smell the tea Great Britian.

Erm..the Chinese Army actually number around 1-2.5 million at the moment.
Yes, at the moment, but in two decades time under a war scenario the Chinese government would forcibly conscript every male form the ages of 18-40 and with the Chinese population continuing to grow their could be about 1.2 billion people in China.

Approximately half of 1.2 billion would be male (600m) and a third of them would be of fighting age (200m).

These are estimates so no doubt some anarak will correct my figures slightly.

I have been saying for years that China is the U.S.'s next major enemy. Recently, a report of the Chinese military buildup that American intel somehow missed indicated the Chinese consider the U.S. an enemy. Well, it's time to start treating China like the enemy they are.

Why can't the Chinese modernise the military without everyone rising alarm like its a big threat? The USA and other countries constantly updating there military without alarmist rantings.

The Chinese Government is concerned with one thing at this time: money. Why would they start a war with Taiwan, Australia or the US. It would leave them isolated, there economy would grind to a halt, the people would revolt and the CCP would lose power.

Economically Taiwan is worth more to mainland China free than conquered. Ignore the bluster and look at what is actually happening. China has two doors to the "west," Taiwan and Hong Kong. At the moment thousands of Taiwanese managers are working in Chinese factories, contributing their skills, knowlege and capitalistic culture. All this would end with an invasion of Taiwan. You can't enslave someone and then whip them until they teach your workers the economic benefits of freedom. On top of this, when you consider the massive amount of money that the U.S. owes China, they'd be extra stupid to invade. The U.S. would just love an excuse to disown that debt. Maybe there are even some idiots in the U.S. who want China to invade Taiwan for that reason.

Yep, that's right. Building a huge army is the main goal of the Chinese government and that's why they instituted the one child policy. Wake up and smell the tea Great Britian.
Wrong, they need to control their population growth otherwise their resources will be drained, they need to build up their economy before they increase their population.

Economically Taiwan is worth more to mainland China free than conquered. Ignore the bluster and look at what is actually happening. China has two doors to the "west," Taiwan and Hong Kong. At the moment thousands of Taiwanese managers are working in Chinese factories, contributing their skills, knowlege and capitalistic culture. All this would end with an invasion of Taiwan. You can't enslave someone and then whip them until they teach your workers the economic benefits of freedom. On top of this, when you consider the massive amount of money that the U.S. owes China, they'd be extra stupid to invade. The U.S. would just love an excuse to disown that debt. Maybe there are even some idiots in the U.S. who want China to invade Taiwan for that reason.
All sound arguments...what does worry me is that the communist creed that used to keep the huge chinese population in check is quicly eroding due to capitalist reforms...so, the chinese leadership has started catering to nationalistic sentiment as a substitute. One may fear, with some justification, that this kind of tampering with the serpent´s egg may get out of hand...

Wrong, they need to control their population growth otherwise their resources will be drained before the structure has been put in place to handle the large number of ectra people.

You try and raise an army of conquest in a country where every potential soldier is an only child? You ever get into a fight with a Chinese grandmother? Imagine a whole country of them on your case, each wanting to protect her little emporer. Good luck.

All sound arguments...what does worry me is that the communist creed that used to keep the huge chinese population in check is quicly eroding due to capitalist reforms...so, the chinese leadership has started catering to nationalistic sentiment as a substitute. One may fear, with some justification, that this kind of tampering with the serpent´s egg may get out of hand...

Yes, what we need to worry about is not wars of conquest, but wars of stupidity.

Yes, at the moment, but in two decades time under a war scenario the Chinese government would forcibly conscript every male form the ages of 18-40 and with the Chinese population continuing to grow their could be about 1.2 billion people in China.

Approximately half of 1.2 billion would be male (600m) and a third of them would be of fighting age (200m).

These are estimates so no doubt some anarak will correct my figures slightly.

You are forgetting two things.

Firstly the sheer cost of maintaining 200 million soldiers would have to be taken into account, as well as the logistics and equipment they would need.

China would prefer primary spending on weaponry such as ships, planes and missiles.

This is what they have done, in downsizing the army size.

Secondly, if China can overcome this problem, you do not take into account that China's economy may not be in the future as it is now.

Secondly, if China can overcome this problem, you do not take into account that China's economy may not be in the future as it is now.
Yes, with China having the world's fastest growing economy it wouldn't be the same now as it would be in 2 decades time.

We need to fear China's weakness more than it's strength. An economically powerful china with a prosporous and educated population will have much to contribute to the world. A weak China that suffers from internal strife and breakdown of civil order would be a potential source of conflict, terrorism, reffugees, illegal drugs, etc.

Yes, what we need to worry about is not wars of conquest, but wars of stupidity.
Its something to be feared, right? I mean, when one sees a demostration of hundreds of chinese students protesting a lapse in a Japonese History book...

You try and raise an army of conquest in a country where every potential soldier is an only child? You ever get into a fight with a Chinese grandmother? Imagine a whole country of them on your case, each wanting to protect her little emporer. Good luck.
Good point, but chinese leadership never seemed to care much about the state of public opinion in the past...

Good point, but chinese leadership never seemed to care much about the state of public opinion in the past...

The Chinese have had quite a few revolutions in the past. Avoiding another one is never far from the minds of the leaders... or at least not the minds of the leaders who stick around for any length of time.

Indeed, China's economic growth can be seen as basically a system that pays off with populace with prosperity in return for not kicking out those in power.

Yet after a certain point the people will eventually demand some form of democracy. This happened in South Korea, Taiwan and Singapore. There governments delivered great economic growth but it still was'nt able to keep there authoritarian governments in power.

The Chinese have had quite a few revolutions in the past. Avoiding another one is never far from the minds of the leaders... or at least not the minds of the leaders who stick around for any length of time.

Indeed, China's economic growth can be seen as basically a system that pays off with populace with prosperity in return for not kicking out those in power.
But would the average chinese citizen always see any kind of agressive action as a severe threat to the economic growth the country is experiencing or would he be liable to be enthraled by a expansionist agenda?

Yet after a certain point the people will eventually demand some form of democracy. This happened in South Korea, Taiwan and Singapore. There governments delivered great economic growth but it still was'nt able to keep there authoritarian governments in power.

Yes. Let's hope it happens peacefully.

Yet after a certain point the people will eventually demand some form of democracy. This happened in South Korea, Taiwan and Singapore. There governments delivered great economic growth but it still was'nt able to keep there authoritarian governments in power.
Well, i wouldnt say that necessarily...economic infraestructure doesnt forccefully determine ideological superstructure :p

I'm very interested in seeing who eventually controls the number one source of shitty vending machine toys, once and for all.

Many people in America don't seem to understand that they have already beaten Communist China without fireing a single shot. Communism is now dead in China, it now only exists in the form of the ruling party's name. Now perhaps all we need to do is cross our fingers and hope they can make the transition to a functioning democracy.

I'm very interested in seeing who eventually controls the number one source of shitty vending machine toys, once and for all.

Whoever has the most 100 yen coins, I think.

Yes, at the moment, but in two decades time under a war scenario the Chinese government would forcibly conscript every male form the ages of 18-40 and with the Chinese population continuing to grow their could be about 1.2 billion people in China.

Approximately half of 1.2 billion would be male (600m) and a third of them would be of fighting age (200m).

These are estimates so no doubt some anarak will correct my figures slightly.

It would cripple a nation to conscript one sixth of their population into the military. No economy can withstand such a blow to the workforce and the simultaneous attempt to support such a military. A more reasonable number would be 2%-4%, not 16%.

Where is there any evidence of China's imperialistic intentions? They want to secure their borders and that's it. Whatever its faults, China, unlike certain other nations, doesn't entertain thoughts of world domination.

But would the average chinese citizen always see any kind of agressive action as a severe threat to the economic growth the country is experiencing or would he be liable to be enthraled by a expansionist agenda?

That's why we have to be careful to avoid one disasterous shitty war in which the Chinese people learn that dying for your country isn't as much fun as the propaganda makes it out to be.

But I'm optimistic that armed conflicts can be avoided.

Yes, with China having the world's fastest growing economy it wouldn't be the same now as it would be in 2 decades time.

Assuming the economy can be maintained.

I should also point out that China never moved to take over Hong Kong in all the time that Britian held it, despite the fact that there was nothing really there to stop them. If China wanted to get Hong Kong over a barrel all they had to do was switch off the water supply which came from the mainland.

Where is there any evidence of China's imperialistic intentions? They want to secure their borders and that's it. Whatever its faults, China, unlike certain other nations, doesn't entertain thoughts of world domination.
well, i thought that they had acted on a imperialist impulse when they invaded Tibet...

Many people in America don't seem to understand that they have already beaten Communist China without fireing a single shot. Communism is now dead in China, it now only exists in the form of the ruling party's name.
So fair and monitored elections take place in China without any fixing of the votes and restrictions on what type of parties can run for power?

Where is there any evidence of China's imperialistic intentions? They want to secure their borders and that's it. Whatever its faults, China, unlike certain other nations, doesn't entertain thoughts of world domination.

Well there's Tibet and those border "skirmishes" against the Soviets during the Cold War, not to mention invading Vietnam...

Many people in America don't seem to understand that they have already beaten Communist China without fireing a single shot. Communism is now dead in China, it now only exists in the form of the ruling party's name. Now perhaps all we need to do is cross our fingers and hope they can make the transition to a functioning democracy.
I wouldnt say that communism is dead in china...the economic theory that one normally associates with marxism may no longer be respected, but some other traits of communist theory-a bureacracy monopolizing the governement, censorship and control of the media, a staunch oposition to civil liberties-subsist...

So fair and monitored elections take place in China without any fixing of the votes and restrictions on what type of parties can run for power?

The absence of Communism is not democracy. Mainland China is an authoritarian state. The government can detain and even torture citizens without trial. As I believe I mentioned it is not a functional democracy. However, instead of Communist Party it would be more accurate to call the government The Ruling Party of China.

I wouldnt say that communism is dead in china...the economic theory that one normally associates with marxism may no longer be respected, but some other traits of communist theory-a bureacracy monopolizing the governement, censorship and control of the media, a staunch oposition to civil liberties-subsist...

That makes America communist too then, does it?

That makes America communist too then, does it?
OK, look, im not even an american, but i do know that the US is not a authoritarian dictatorship...theres a free media (although sometimes tv stations and newspapers do practice self-censorship)...furthermore the US has several levels of governement, all with elected officials...and, lets face it, if the US administration should have a systematic policy of civil rights bashing, then these kind of forums would have been shut down long ago ;)

Taiwan won't declare its independence because the government has always stated it owns and is part of democratic China and visa versa

so as you can see I hardly think communist China will invade an island it says it owns and democratic China won't give up its mainland (another way the world gets a weird peace)

and America is NOT overly stretched even if it does invade Iran (remember this isn’t just America this is the western world China would have to fight)

OK, look, im not even an american, but i do know that the US is not a authoritarian dictatorship...theres a free media (although sometimes tv stations and newspapers do practice self-censorship)...furthermore the US has several levels of governement, all with elected officials...and, lets face it, if the US administration should have a systematic policy of civil rights bashing, then these kind of forums would have been shut down long ago ;)

Perhaps the worst type of oppression and dictatorship, is the one that makes the oppressed unaware they are being oppressed.

At least when you are aware, you can try to fight it, or try to escape it.

I wouldnt say that communism is dead in china...the economic theory that one normally associates with marxism may no longer be respected, but some other traits of communist theory-a bureacracy monopolizing the governement, censorship and control of the media, a staunch oposition to civil liberties-subsist...

communism is economic theory and does not represent any part of the libertarian/authoritarian scale (don’t you know the political spectrum is 3-D?)

Sounds like a great way to resolve the issue.

Get together our best & their best porn stars to exchange b...
well, you know.

communism is economic theory and does not represent any part of the libertarian/authoritarian scale (don’t you know the political spectrum is 3-D?)
Authoritarianism (at least the definition i learned in college) applies to regimes that surpress civil liberties and political freedoms, but that dont seek to own their citizens´s hearts and minds..whereas totalitarism tries to make the man on the street a true believer of the state´s official doctrine...it tries to regulate every aspect of life (what to eat, what to dress, the accepted modes of behaviour in public, etc)...so, i wouldnt call nowadays China a totalitarian regime, but rather a authoritarian state.

Taiwan won't declare its independence because the government has always stated it owns and is part of democratic China and visa versa

so as you can see I hardly think communist China will invade an island it says it owns and democratic China won't give up its mainland (another way the world gets a weird peace)

and America is NOT overly stretched even if it does invade Iran (remember this isn’t just America this is the western world China would have to fight)
Actually, there´s a strong independist party in Taiwan.
And one should remenber that China did manage to equal all the might of a extended coalition of western nations in the Korean war.

So fair and monitored elections take place in China without any fixing of the votes and restrictions on what type of parties can run for power?
Its still a one-party state( which ironically is very much opposite of communism)

Well there's Tibet and those border "skirmishes" against the Soviets during the Cold War, not to mention invading Vietnam...

Arguably Tibet was part of China at one point in time, it was stolen by the British so in an attempt to 'unite' the country again the PRC took it over.

Whatever your opinion Europeans and Americans(both north and south) have no moral superiority when it comes China's occupation of Tibet.

Arguably Tibet was part of China at one point in time, it was stolen by the British so in an attempt to 'unite' the country again the PRC took it over.

Whatever your opinion Europeans and Americans(both north and south) have no moral superiority when it comes China's occupation of Tibet.
Yes, of course, the same way Koweit was a part of Iraq.

Yes, of course, the same way Koweit was a part of Iraq.

Wow really I never knew that!!!

Anyway everyone has to admit europe and America had a horrible history in the past, when you think about it every nation had a horrible history in the pass. So don't let nationallism blind true facts ;)

Arguably Tibet was part of China at one point in time, it was stolen by the British so in an attempt to 'unite' the country again the PRC took it over.

Whatever your opinion Europeans and Americans(both north and south) have no moral superiority when it comes China's occupation of Tibet.

The Mongols conquered Tibet 700 years ago and then agian by the Manchus, before that Tibet was an independant nation and any claim the PRC has to it is suspect at best.

And you haven't addressed other imperialistic moves made by the Chinese, like Vietnam and the Soviet, just to name a few

Anyway everyone has to admit europe and America had a horrible history in the past, when you think about it every nation had a horrible history in the pass. So don't let nationallism blind true facts
We're not talking about America and Europe, stay on topic damn it :p :D

The Mongols conquered Tibet 700 years ago and then agian by the Manchus, before that Tibet was an independant nation and any claim the PRC has to it is suspect at best.

And you haven't addressed other imperialistic moves made by the Chinese, like Vietnam and the Soviet, just to name a few


We're not talking about America and Europe, stay on topic damn it :p :D

Hehehe I am, I'm merely showing that every nation did imperialistic moves so everyone will cool down about Tibet considering everyone did something like that at one time or another
:( me and everyone in America stole all our land from the indians... :D

And as for the imperialist moves made by the Chinese well they're about on the same level of what everyone has done and in some ways its the same thing. They were communist they defended they're beliefs, we're democrats we defend out belief.
:rolleyes: And anyway we were the ones who got involved in Vietnam in the first place, it was only after we got involved that Russia and China got involved too

China was never communist. They were only called communist because of their extremely strong ties to the Soviet Union, which openly claimed to be communist despite the fact that they're authoritarian.

China will not fight the US over Taiwan. They'll probably use one of two tactics:
1) Buy it out
2) Wait for all the people wanting independance to die off, then let naive teenagers from taiwan accept embracing from China.

China was never communist. They were only called communist because of their extremely strong ties to the Soviet Union, which openly claimed to be communist despite the fact that they're authoritarian.

China will not fight the US over Taiwan. They'll probably use one of two tactics:
1) Buy it out
2) Wait for all the people wanting independance to die off, then let naive teenagers from taiwan accept embracing from China.

This I have to dissagree with I'm chinese/american (AND DAMN PROUD OF BOTH *waves flag*) so I would know. China was definetely a communist although after soviet union fell they began becoming more democratic and eventually adopted capitalism.
The problem with most people is that they are too impatient they rush over to China and yell "GO DEMOCRACY SCREW YOUUUUUUU" when in truth China is very democratic considering what it was like when Mao is alive. Give it time, China is slowly becoming democratic and even now no matter what anyone says, China has never gone against anyone unless it involved Taiwan, its probably one of the most neutral country out there. Sooo slow down all you democrats and understand it takes time.

Hehehe I am, I'm merely showing that every nation did imperialistic moves so everyone will cool down about Tibet considering everyone did something like that at one time or another
:( me and everyone in America stole all our land from the indians... :D

And as for the imperialist moves made by the Chinese well they're about on the same level of what everyone has done and in some ways its the same thing. They were communist they defended they're beliefs, we're democrats we defend out belief.
Where have I heard that before, "They did it so I should be able to do it too?"
Didn't your parents teach you "Do as I say, not as I do?" :D

:rolleyes: And anyway we were the ones who got involved in Vietnam in the first place, it was only after we got involved that Russia and China got involved too
This is afterwards, when the NVA won the Chinese tried invading the country. I know this is NS, but for once won't someone do research before they open their mouths? :D

Where have I heard that before, "They did it so I should be able to do it too?"
Didn't your parents teach you "Do as I say, not as I do?" :D

This is afterwards, when the NVA won the Chinese tried invading the country. I know this is NS, but for once won't someone do research before they open their mouths? :D

;) "They did it so I should be able to do it too?" everyone listens to this fact so in the end it doesn't matter does it, soo many nations uses this tactic. The reason I bring it up is because everyone talks about B.S when their own nations have done it :D

As for the other statment, yup guilty as charge :(

This I have to dissagree with I'm chinese/american (AND DAMN PROUD OF BOTH *waves flag*) so I would know. China was definetely a communist although after soviet union fell they began becoming more democratic and eventually adopted capitalism.
The problem with most people is that they are too impatient they rush over to China and yell "GO DEMOCRACY SCREW YOUUUUUUU" when in truth China is very democratic considering what it was like when Mao is alive. Give it time, China is slowly becoming democratic and even now no matter what anyone says, China has never gone against anyone unless it involved Taiwan, its probably one of the most neutral country out there. Sooo slow down all you democrats and understand it takes time.

I'm Chinese as well. I've lived in China, I've studied the history, and all that jazz. China was extremely near to Communist, but it never became a true communist state.

I'm Chinese as well. I've lived in China, I've studied the history, and all that jazz. China was extremely near to Communist, but it never became a true communist state.

OOO :eek: really thats cool!!


WE MUST UNITE MY ASIAN BROTHER!!!! :sniper:

WE MUST UNITE MY ASIAN BROTHER!!!!

Why? Has he had a bad accident? Do you need a microsurgeon?

Why? Has he had a bad accident? Do you need a microsurgeon?

What are you talking about....

What are you talking about....

Bad joke.

Erm..the Chinese Army actually number around 1-2.5 million at the moment.


For China to be successful in invading Taiwan, it would have to be a quick and precise measure, to show the world it was in control of Taiwan quickly.

Anything messy and the international community may do more than just vocally lamenting.

I personally don't think the US would go to war with China over Taiwan, it is my view that America does not see Taiwan worth a full out war between the US and China.

Certainly the administration would protest, scream, and may move battleships closer, but I doubt they will intervene.

But all this aside, Taiwan watches China's increasing business wealth and it wants a piece of that wealth. Taiwan may well just quietly return to Beijing's fold.

I think the preponderance towards appeasement died with WWII. We have sworn to defend Taiwan and, in the unlikely event China invaded, our reputation would be on the line.

Bad joke.
....this forum is slowly killing off the little sense of humor I have lol :D

I think the preponderance towards appeasement died with WWII. We have sworn to defend Taiwan and, in the unlikely event China invaded, our reputation would be on the line.

Personally we're already screwing Taiwan, currently Japanese fishing boats and oil tankers are in Taiwan national waters and Taiwan can't really tell them to piss off. We on the other hand don't want to loose our Japanese lap dogs so we turn our eyes away... if you don't believe me read the Taiwanese newspapers...

Uh, no. If China wants it, China pretty much just gets it. In this instance, anyway. As 'interests' go, Taiwan ain't nothin' for the American ambassador to write home about (assuming there is a U.S. ambassador there).

Faster than you can say 'give Chairman Hu my love'.

Uh, no. If China wants it, China pretty much just gets it. In this instance, anyway. As 'interests' go, Taiwan ain't nothin' for the American ambassador to write home about (assuming there is a U.S. ambassador there).

Faster than you can say 'give Chairman Hu my love'.

Lol.... why does China want it anyway I mean its this puny piece of land that isn't really that powerful in anyway...
Taiwan has the best honeydew melons though... I wonder if China has a big sweet tooth...

Lol.... why does China want it anyway I mean its this puny piece of land that isn't really that powerful in anyway...
Taiwan has the best honeydew melons though... I wonder if China has a big sweet tooth...

Symbolic value. The individuals who all immigrated to Taiwan were the last holdouts against the communist autocracy, so there is much animosity between the two nations. The most infuriating thing the Taiwanese could do is declare independence from mainland China.

Symbolic value. The individuals who all immigrated to Taiwan were the last holdouts against the communist autocracy, so there is much animosity between the two nations. The most infuriating thing the Taiwanese could do is declare independence from mainland China.

Hmmm my mom is Taiwanese and my dad is Chinese and I'm American/Taiwanese/Chinese... my dad says Taiwan should be part of China because Taiwanese are in the end blood related to them while my mom (Aka my mom has my dad whiped...) says that China is just pissed that Taiwanese democrats took all the national treasures in the museums before they left

From time to time, tension in the international arena flames up between the US and China over the secessionist island of Tawian. China mantains a assertive claim to integrate Taiwan in its territory, by force if need be, while the US still vows to defend Taiwan from any agressive action from China. Do you think that Taiwan will ever formally declare its independence? If such ever comes to pass, will China respond by a declaration of war? Will the US comply with their defense obligations toward its allie? Can a conventional conflict escalate into nuclear war? Or will the current state of affairs where only sabre-rattling is allowed remain in place for the forseeable future?

I highly doubt it. Mostly because most American's woudn't understand why we are fighting for a tiny little island.

Basically it would be better if Taiwan would just accept that it is part of China. A lot of these "flare ups" are because the last remaining hic-ups of those who were in power during the cold war, and of course, idiotic bush.