NationStates Jolt Archive

If this has been addressed, sorry, (I did a quick search but didn't come up with anything)

Has anyone else looked at the Flight 93 memorial plans? While I am not going to claim there is some sort of "Vast Islamic Conspiracy" involved, this design certainly seems in very poor taste - if for no other reason than it CAN be portrayed in this manner.

http://zombietime.com/flight_93_memorial_project/

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y180/MrMisanthrope/memorial_crescent.gif

http://lostprovince.net/flight93/

Conspiracies are born from coincidence, but WTF!?!

http://zombietime.com/flight_93_memorial_project/mz936ie.jpg

While I get how the design is seemingly in poor taste, but that map is just rubbish. I could just as easily make a map that connected the crash site with Moscow or Beijing or Easter Island.

Is it wrong to like the first one? Because I do.

Sweet!

I love conspiracy theories! They are the soap operas of reason.

While I get how the design is seemingly in poor taste, but that map is just rubbish. I could just as easily make a map that connected the crash site with Moscow or Beijing or Easter Island.
Funny thin is, had there been even a hint of "Cross Like" proportions, somebody would have screamed bloody murder (me included), but to have a Red Crecent (it's even called a crecent) is somehow OK... despite the fact that the perpetrators of the crime were using one as their banner.

But in regards to the global overlay, as I said, concidences do conspiracies make. I am not idintifying conspiracy, just stupidity and bad taste.

Funny thin is, had there been even a hint of "Cross Like" proportions, somebody would have screamed bloody murder (me included), but to have a Red Crecent (it's even called a crecent) is somehow OK...

Of course it's called a crescent ... what else would you call that shape?

despite the fact that the perpetrators of the crime were using one as their banner.

Turkey did it?! :eek: :eek: Did I miss something?

From what I remember, the perpetrators were Saudi ...

Saudi flag ...

http://www.nationstates.net/images/flags/saudi_arabia.jpg

No crescent.

The crescent is not an Islamic symbol, but merely the adopted symbol by the Caliph when Turkey became Islamic. It's a holdover from the old Turkish Pagan thing and has nothing to do with Islam. I'd also remind you that Muslims all over the world, including some who lost loved ones on that day, watched in horror just as you did as the events unfolded.

you have to wonder what person saw that and thought it was the muslims.somehow i think they have better things to be doing than sneaking crescents into things.
mwahahaha,we have fooled the foolish americans again,now there is a crescent in their memorial!!!!we pwn america

and i never knew the crescent had anything to do with islam.

ok now ive read the post above i know it doesnt

This design is in terrible taste. And what's with this 'Int'l Freedom Center' I hear about for the WTC memorial?

This design is in terrible taste. And what's with this 'Int'l Freedom Center' I hear about for the WTC memorial?

international freedom center?does that mean people from all over the world can go and be free there?lets pay admission so we can stand in this snazzily designed building and just be free

another case of why democracy just doesn’t work.....dumdasses having freedom of speech and the freedom to shout louder than the other guy

imagine bizarre Earth where Muslims have made a site where the planes path takes he shape of the cross would you still of made this thread?

Someone's imagination went a little wild there...

I mean, are we going to blow up the moon becuase twice a month it has a nice little crescent?

Someone's imagination went a little wild there...

I mean, are we going to blow up the moon becuase twice a month it has a nice little crescent?


Man-I hope not. my life is based on the lunar cycle...

I doubt its any conspiracy, but lets scrap this plan and move on to the next one.

We dont need a crescent type pattern of any sort in this memorial.

http://bellsouthpwp.net/r/_/r_timmon/SouthCarolinaFlag.gif

dear god, they've got South Carolina too!


http://www.law.ou.edu/hist/flags/coflag.gif
Colorado too?!?!

dear god they've got South Carolina too!
The crescent is reversed there

The crescent is reversed there
I didn't know it wasn't a crescent if it faced the other way. How about you stand on your head for a second, and look at it that way.


Give it up, you're not going to win this one moonbat.

http://bellsouthpwp.net/r/_/r_timmon/SouthCarolinaFlag.gif

dear god, they've got South Carolina too!


http://www.law.ou.edu/hist/flags/coflag.gif
Colorado too?!?!

lol,muslims have secretly been taking over america with subliminal messages

I doubt its any conspiracy, but lets scrap this plan and move on to the next one.

We dont need a crescent type pattern of any sort in this memorial.

WHY?!

What is the matter with you people?!

People are saying shit (not here, but elsewhere) that it's like making a holocaust memorial in the shape of a Swastika. Huge difference, people.

1] The crescent is NOT a symbol of Islam, the Swastika IS a symbol of the Nazi Party.
2] A very tiny fraction of self-proclaimed Muslims perpetrated 9/11 and hate the West, nearly ALL Nazis wanted Jews dead.
3] Not one single one of the factions of Islam who want to destroy the West use the crescent in any way shape or form.

I have a feeling that this is going to turn into a "ban all crescents from NS flags" bullshit.

Geeze, people. Let's just keep on grasping at those straws.

Wow, what a huge waste of peoples time and energy.

Why did I bother coming here

http://lostprovince.net/flight93/index.gif

Holy shit, if you rotate and skew a flag and make it an animated gif and spew it across your website, that means that whoever is building the monument must be more holy warriors of Allah that are coming to destroy the Western Devil.

It's a damn crescent. If you immediately associate the crescent with Islam or terrorists then I don't want to ever show you a picture of the moon because that's where they've been hiding since before you were born.

Wow, what a huge waste of peoples time and energy.

Why did I bother coming here

did the voices tell you to come too?

btw,100 posts go u

WHY?!

What is the matter with you people?!

People are saying shit (not here, but elsewhere) that it's like making a holocaust memorial in the shape of a Swastika. Huge difference, people.

1] The crescent is NOT a symbol of Islam, the Swastika IS a symbol of the Nazi Party.
2] A very tiny fraction of self-proclaimed Muslims perpetrated 9/11 and hate the West, nearly ALL Nazis wanted Jews dead.
3] Not one single one of the factions of Islam who want to destroy the West use the crescent in any way shape or form.

I have a feeling that this is going to turn into a "ban all crescents from NS flags" bullshit.

Geeze, people. Let's just keep on grasping at those straws.


Nothing wrong with me, pal. If I lost someone on that flight, I dont need a crescent as part of the memorial. I'm not looking for a cross or a star of david either.
I didnt say Nazi or swastika. I didnt draw a parrallel there, though I expect someone might at some point. Its not valid though.

Dont go off the deep end. I just gave my opinion, which there is nothing wrong with my opinion or me giving it. You can load up on the crescents in your decorating, I'm fine with out them.

I dont even need to give a reason.

And I'm in line with Mecca right now. I hope no one is coming to get me.

did the voices tell you to come too?

btw,100 posts go u


I think they did, I might have to have a word with them. I hate it when they point me in the direction of Paranoid idiots *Looks at thread maker*


But thanks lol

Dont go off the deep end. I just gave my opinion, which there is nothing wrong with my opinion or me giving it. You can load up on the crescents in your decorating, I'm fine with out them.


But you don't get it. The Crescent is the in the Turkish flag because the Goths sacked Constantinople before Jesus was even around. You're assigning a symbol to something that it isn't a symbol.

This is like me waking up one day and deciding that the rabbit with a pancake on his head is a Christian symbol because one Christian somewhere used it.

It's a lovely design for a memorial and you want to throw it away because you have some ignorant pre-conceived notion that somehow it's the banner under which you lost a loved one?

I'll go ahead and say it ... that's just stupid. It's stupid because you're completely wrong about what the crescent means and probably haven't even bothered to research it.

It's just plain lunacy. Pure and simple. It's like reading all those threads about how PC is taking over ... well you're not helping much. The crescent is used in architecture all the time ... you want all those torn down and a big sheet thrown over the moon twice a month and force Jack-in-the-Box to make their Croissandwich straight?

Come on, CL ... you're smarter than this. I know it.

WHY?!

What is the matter with you people?!

People are saying shit (not here, but elsewhere) that it's like making a holocaust memorial in the shape of a Swastika. Huge difference, people.

1] The crescent is NOT a symbol of Islam, the Swastika IS a symbol of the Nazi Party.

Yes and no Keru. In almost every instance I've seen in the US, an Islamic center is identified with the Turkish Crecent. IIRC it is the "official" symbol to be used on road markers, maps and phone books identifying (Islamic) houses of worship. Thus, coupled with the International Red Crecent - (IRC for Islamic States - though the IRC symbol has everything to do with Switzerland and nothing to do with Xtianity :rolleyes: ) a crecent IS the de-facto symbol of Islam/Islamic Power.

(As to your point about its Pagan origins... so? I can't think of anything more Pagan than a Roman Torture/Execution device...)

2] A very tiny fraction of self-proclaimed Muslims perpetrated 9/11 and hate the West, nearly ALL Nazis wanted Jews dead.
3] Not one single one of the factions of Islam who want to destroy the West use the crescent in any way shape or form. True, but see above. It IS in fact, a symbol used to represent Islam - whether you want it to be or not.

I have a feeling that this is going to turn into a "ban all crescents from NS flags" bullshit.I hope not. My point was more one of:

(A) Look at the silly conspiracy theory
(B) If your design can be used as a major point of contention - silly or not - it is in bad taste and
(C) There are legitimate issues of hypocrisy when the Government/Anti-religious orginizations look deep into every Government Flag & Seal looking for Crosses, but ignore other identified "religious" symbols.

(edit - How about that uproar about the "War Memorial" Cross erected on what later became National Park land... the one they decided must be torn down because it was a Religious Symbol even though it cost the US taxpayers nothing...? Hypocrisy is Fun.)

Geeze, people. Let's just keep on grasping at those straws.

To what straws are you refering?

But you don't get it. The Crescent is the in the Turkish flag because the Goths sacked Constantinople before Jesus was even around. You're assigning a symbol to something that it isn't a symbol.

This is like me waking up one day and deciding that the rabbit with a pancake on his head is a Christian symbol because one Christian somewhere used it.

It's a lovely design for a memorial and you want to throw it away because you have some ignorant pre-conceived notion that somehow it's the banner under which you lost a loved one?

I'll go ahead and say it ... that's just stupid. It's stupid because you're completely wrong about what the crescent means and probably haven't even bothered to research it.

It's just plain lunacy. Pure and simple. It's like reading all those threads about how PC is taking over ... well you're not helping much. The crescent is used in architecture all the time ... you want all those torn down and a big sheet thrown over the moon twice a month and force Jack-in-the-Box to make their Croissandwich straight?

Come on, CL ... you're smarter than this. I know it.
But you don't get it: The Turkish Crecent IS an internationally recognized symbol of Islam.

http://islam.about.com/library/weekly/aa060401a.htm

The crescent moon and star is an internationally-recognized symbol of the faith of Islam. The symbol is featured on the flags of several Muslim countries, and is even part of the official emblem for the International Federation of Red Cross and Red Crescent Societies. <snip>

For hundreds of years, the Ottoman Empire ruled over the Muslim world. After centuries of battle with Christian Europe, it is understandable how the symbols of this empire became linked in people's minds with the faith of Islam as a whole.
Based on this history, many Muslims reject using the crescent moon as a symbol of Islam. The faith of Islam has historically had no symbol, and many refuse to accept what is essentially an ancient pagan icon. It is certainly not in uniform use among Muslims.

http://www.ethnicityonline.net/logo_explanations.htm



The adoption of the crescent moon (with or without a star) is a relatively modern tradition. In Mohammad’s time, Muslims did not have a collective symbol as such, usually carrying either the flags of their tribe, or a simple coloured flag.
It is thought that the crescent may have been adopted by Muslims after they secured Istanbul (Constantinople) in the 1400’s. The city used the crescent moon as their flag, and this was then taken by the invading Muslim force as a token of Allah’s approval.
Since then, the symbol has been used in the flags of many nations that are either officially Muslim (e.g. Turkey and Pakistan) or have a large Muslim population.
The use of the star has been explained as a representation of the five pillars of Islam; however, not every country uses a star in its flag, and not all stars used are five-pointed.
The first sight of a crescent moon is used as the traditional start point for many celebrations and holidays in Islam, such as the official start of Ramadan. It may be that this has reinforced its use as a symbol for all Islam.
The symbol that is generally used to represent Islam is called the Chand Sitara. (note, that symbol is so ubiquitous that it is included in the Wingdings font with the "standard six" symbols for Christianity, Judiasim, Hinduisim, Taoisim, Buddhism and Islam.)

Whether or not an individual Muslim accepts the validity of the Turkish Crecent as a "symbol of Islam", it is an accepted, Internationally recognized one and therefore inappropriate to be used in a NPS/US Government sponsored memorial.

I think they did, I might have to have a word with them. I hate it when they point me in the direction of Paranoid idiots *Looks at thread maker*
How about looking at the people believe it is a conspiracy rather than the person pointing the conspiracy out for ridicule while wanting to discuss hipocrisy in acceptance of religious iconagraphy, but, thanks for playing.

This design is in terrible taste. And what's with this 'Int'l Freedom Center' I hear about for the WTC memorial?
What's wrong with it--it's not like only Americans were killed in the WTC attacks, after all?

And as for the original post, that's simply retarded. All the bad shit going on in the world, the utter incompetence of this administration, and y'all are pulling stuff like this out of your asses? Talk about an inability to prioritize.

But you don't get it. The Crescent is the in the Turkish flag because the Goths sacked Constantinople before Jesus was even around. You're assigning a symbol to something that it isn't a symbol.

This is like me waking up one day and deciding that the rabbit with a pancake on his head is a Christian symbol because one Christian somewhere used it.

It's a lovely design for a memorial and you want to throw it away because you have some ignorant pre-conceived notion that somehow it's the banner under which you lost a loved one?

I'll go ahead and say it ... that's just stupid. It's stupid because you're completely wrong about what the crescent means and probably haven't even bothered to research it.

It's just plain lunacy. Pure and simple. It's like reading all those threads about how PC is taking over ... well you're not helping much. The crescent is used in architecture all the time ... you want all those torn down and a big sheet thrown over the moon twice a month and force Jack-in-the-Box to make their Croissandwich straight?

Come on, CL ... you're smarter than this. I know it.

Maybe its stupid in your eyes, Keru. I gave you my opinion, thats all.
Any mosque I've seen has a crescent on it's roof. Maybe I havent seen as many as you-and maybe I dont care as much as you do. I wouldnt be offended if they didnt use it.
Smarter? Or I know what I agree with and dont agree with? Its not a question of intelligence but more what appeals and doesnt appeal to a person. There is no flavor of the month with me,Keru. I'm not changing with the wind or the seasons or with some new force that has some influence over me.

I got the impression that the people who should have the most say, in a memorial for the dead, is the people who were directly related to the folks who got killed.

Interestingly enough, not one of the family members of the dead objected to this design. And as it happens, I find it aesthetically pleasing.

If you complete the shape of the crescent, you'll get a circle, which is the same shape as a wheel, and wheels are what they have on car bombs.

If you complete the shape of the crescent, you'll get a circle, which is the same shape as a wheel, and wheels are what they have on car bombs.

lol....and it's also kinda the shape of a head,and terrorists have heads!

:)

although it probably is in bad taste if it was actually really a crescent shape,it looks like it stops a bit short of that though.

If you complete the shape of the crescent, you'll get a circle, which is the same shape as a wheel, and wheels are what they have on car bombs.
Tyres are the things on your car that make contact with the road
Tyres are the things on your car that make contact with the road
Tyres are the things on your car that make contact with the road

A car is the thing on the road that takes you back to your abode

(bummed is what you ar when you go out to your car and it's been towed...)

But as far as I know, an unadorned circle is not recognised as a symbol of a particular religion, thus is perfectly acceptable on a Government Funded Memorial.

But as far as I know, an unadorned circle is not recognised as a symbol of a particular religion...

Church of Lemon Meringue says otherwise.

Church of Lemon Meringue says otherwise.
Edit: Originally Posted by Syniks
But as far as I know, an unadorned circle is not recognised as a symbol of a particular normally accepted, internationally recognised religion...

PTHBLTH! ;)