NationStates Jolt Archive

Don't know if this has been posted before but I just found the below comment made by Cindy Sheehan and thougt it quite interesting.

04-06-2004

Army Specialist Casey Sheehan of Vacaville died over the weekend when the vehicle he was riding in was attacked in Baghdad. He had been in the country less than two weeks.

"He just wanted to go over to fight for his country, and serve his country," said Sheehan's mother Cindy Sheehan.

http://atlas.kpix.com/news/local/2004/04/06/Bay_Area_Soldier_Dies_in_Iraq.html?print#

In an interview with buzzflash last Oct., Cindy made the below comment:

October 7, 2004

Casey knew the First Cavalry was going to end up going to Iraq when he re-enlisted.

http://www.buzzflash.com/interviews/04/10/int04050.html

But Cindy has been singing a different tune the past few months.

August 19th, 2005

CINDY SHEEHAN: He thought it was probably for oil, and he didn't want to go. He didn't agree that the President was using his troops wisely. And I begged him not to go, and he said, “Mom, I have to go. My buddies are going.” And if I had known that, you know, if I had known what was going to happen to him, I think I probably would have tried to force him into Canada or something, but, you know, he was an adult, and he thought it was his duty, and so I was as supportive as I could be. He was only there for five days, though, before he was killed.

http://www.unitedforpeace.org/article.php?id=3073

Cindy Sheehan has more positions then Paris Hilton, so lets move onto something else. She is now being ignored by much of the media.

Karl Rove is a certified hypnotist... subliminal message expert, too.. they're in all the commercials on t.v., just slow the film down to 1fps, you'll see it.. therefore, eh.. he was under duress when he enlisted, voiding the contract, etc.. yup.

Either way, isn't this story old news? We're on "Bush Hates Blacks" now, in this news cycle.. Casey Sheehan's mother was last news cycle. Keep up, man! ;)

Actually Bush hates blacks is on the backburner... Chris Rock said Bush hates midgets. :D

Cindy is a hypocrite. I mean how can she blame Bush for using the death of 3,000 people (9/11) to push his adgenda, when she, herself, use the death of her son to push her adgenda.

Actually Bush hates blacks is on the backburner... Chris Rock said Bush hates midgets. :D

Better inform Ted Kennedy and pals, then.. they didn't get the memo, as of a few hours ago. ;) Also, "midgets" is not the preferred nomenclature.. "little people," remember. ;)

Better inform Ted Kennedy and pals, then.. they didn't get the memo, as of a few hours ago. ;) Also, "midgets" is not the preferred nomenclature.. "little people," remember. ;)

Hey this came out Chris Rock's mouth... so I have to say as it is... he's a personal hero of mine.

Cindy is a hypocrite. I mean how can she blame Bush for using the death of 3,000 people (9/11) to push his adgenda, when she, herself, use the death of her son to push her adgenda.

The Casey Sheehan Cindy talks about now is quite different then the Casey Sheehan who was born and raised in Vacaville, Calfornia, joined the Army and died on a rescue mission in Iraq.

The new, improved Casey wanted to be a warrant officer.

She presented a brief biography of her son, born in 1979 in Vacaville, Calif., an Eagle Scout and altar boy who said when he grew up he wanted to serve and help people. He was in his third year in college when he decided to join the army, professing an interest in becoming a warrant officer in the OCS.

http://www.mainelincolncountynews.com/index.cfm?ID=10361

The real Casey wanted to be a Chaplins' assistant.

It's always an awkward moment. The family explains that Casey was recruited to join the U.S. Army before the Sept. 11 attacks. They explain that Casey was convinced that while in uniform he could help people, that Casey wanted to be a chaplain's assistant and perhaps make a career out of the Army.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2005/03/20/INGIGBNC46129.DTL

Hey!

Great job of keeping her name on peoples minds! :)

Actually Bush hates blacks is on the backburner... Chris Rock said Bush hates midgets. :D
Oompa Loompa!

*YAWN*

Wait...people are still talking about this??

Wake me when it's over, mmk? *zzzz*

Feeling he had a duty and wanting to go are completely seperate things people.

Plus, the ghoulish delight you all take in demonizing this woman is repugnant. I've heard her called a whore, a bitch, a liar and more. Why? Because she was polite and subdued and didn't want to make waves while the death of her child was still fresh? I guess it's too much to ask that the body be cold before she actually starts to run things over in her head and decided that something doesn't seem right?

Oh, that's right. In today's America, it's not okay to change your mind. It's not okay to question one's assumptions and begin to speak out. Nooooo. That would be Un-American.

Seriously. Shame on you all. I've seen plenty of Bush-supporting, grieving mothers and fathers. I've even seen some repeat things that are known not to be true (WMD in Iraq, 9/11-Iraq connection.) Never once have I ever had the urge to call or even think of any of them as bitches, liars and whores. I'd be ashamed of myself if I did. It's that low. It makes it so much worse how greedily you all lap it up and spew it back out.

Also, when Clinton had cause to use our men and women in armed conflict, none of you "criticizing the war is Un-American!" repeateers said one word in defense of our President or the morale of our troops then. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Finally, I challenge all to you, if there was text available on various things you've said over time, to pretend that you've always been 100% consistent. We all reverse ourselves, see things in a different light or find reason to question ourselves. And we all have our reasons for doing so. But you people...YOU PEOPLE, won't even extend that same right to a woman who lost her son in a war that she doesn't believe in. Shame on all of you people trying to burn her at the stake. I AM NOT saying you have to agree with her, but at least accord her some grudging respect. It's the only human thing to do.

Seriously. This is bottom-feeding behavior. This is villagers with torches and pitchforks bahavior. Civilized people don't act like this.

I don't think she is being honest to anyone and I think she is a pretty low person in using her son for political purposes. I don't really careanymore. No one said it was un-American for her to change her mind. We are just saying she's a hypocrite. NO, shame on you, gymoor. She is using her dead son for political purposes, and she deserves no respect from me. She's sick and twisted. Civilized people don't act like her. Don't patronize people who don't like her.

I don't see what's wrong with using a dead son for political purposes. Are you trying to seperate politics and humanity?

Lets look at it this way. A political view has destroyed a piece of your life, being against that political view is the only logical thing to do.

It's like you guys are saying "The Jews are using the Holocaust as a political tool against Nazis." Hell fuck'n yeah you should use dead people as a political tool and a reason to think a certain way.
Shame on you people for insulting someone for doing something the way it SHOULD be done.

Anyways, I think she should just die out of the media, it's really boring and drawn out at this point.

I don't think she is being honest to anyone and I think she is a pretty low person in using her son for political purposes. I don't really careanymore. No one said it was un-American for her to change her mind. We are just saying she's a hypocrite. NO, shame on you, gymoor. She is using her dead son for political purposes, and she deserves no respect from me. She's sick and twisted. Civilized people don't act like her. Don't patronize people who don't like her.

No, you are using her son for political purposes, and you didn't even know him. Shame on me? Are you going to say that your hero, Bush, has never been hypocritical? And yet you have a nice pocket of venom ready for anyone who dares to criticize him. It's crap, and it's childish, and you should know better.

I have no problem with you disagreeing with her. I just wish you weren't all circling around her like vulture, ready to pick at her dead son's body.

No, you are using her son for political purposes, and you didn't even know him. Shame on me? Are you going to say that your hero, Bush, has never been hypocritical? And yet you have a nice pocket of venom ready for anyone who dares to criticize him. It's crap, and it's childish, and you should know better.

I have no problem with you disagreeing with her. I just wish you weren't all circling around her like vulture, ready to pick at her dead son's body.

No I'm not. I think he should just be allowed to rest like any fallen soldier, and remembered. That's it. I didn't say anything about Bush, and he's not my hero. You are using personal attacks now. How low of you. You don't even know me. You are the one who should know better.

She is a hypocrite, and is twisted. She is using her dead son for political purposes. All I'm saying is.. she should remember him for sacrificing his life for country and move on with her own life.

This comes from someone who lost several family members in wars.

I don't see what's wrong with using a dead son for political purposes. Are you trying to seperate politics and humanity?

Lets look at it this way. A political view has destroyed a piece of your life, being against that political view is the only logical thing to do.

It's like you guys are saying "The Jews are using the Holocaust as a political tool against Nazis." Hell fuck'n yeah you should use dead people as a political tool and a reason to think a certain way.
Shame on you people for insulting someone for doing something the way it SHOULD be done.

Anyways, I think she should just die out of the media, it's really boring and drawn out at this point.

Excellent point, though I wish you hadn't used the Nazi card. It's almost always tragedy that causes people to speak out...9/11 was used by Bush for political purposes, inarguably. So I guess in the Cindy-basher's minds it's okay to use dead strangers as a political tool as long as the political fallout agrees with their pre-concieved notions. Heaven forbid that the death of a loved one would cause someone to speak out.

I don't see what's wrong with using a dead son for political purposes.

Then I pity any children you ever have.

Excellent point, though I wish you hadn't used the Nazi card. It's almost always tragedy that causes people to speak out...9/11 was used by Bush for political purposes, inarguably. So I guess in the Cindy-basher's minds it's okay to use dead strangers as a political tool as long as the political fallout agrees with their pre-concieved notions. Heaven forbid that the death of a loved one would cause someone to speak out.

Wow this shows you are not a reasonable person to talk to. Bush went after the people responsible for 9/11. So please, spare us the left wing partisan insanity.

No I'm not. I think he should just be allowed to rest like any fallen soldier, and remembered. That's it. I didn't say anything about Bush, and he's not my hero. You are using personal attacks now. How low of you. You don't even know me. You are the one who should know better.

She is a hypocrite, and is twisted. She is using her dead son for political purposes. All I'm saying is.. she should remember him for sacrificing his life for country and move on with her own life.

This comes from someone who lost several family members in wars.

Ah, so calling you a Bush-supporter is offensive to you? Interesting.

How exactly is she twisted? Is she breaking the law? Does she enjoy other's pain? Is she in to sexual practices with livestock?

Admit it, if she was preaching something you agree with, you wouldn't be calling her out at all. If someone stood up and said "My son died for this country. He was a good and brave man who loved his country. Anyone who criticized Bush should be ashamed of themselves!" you'd have no problem at all, and would probably get a nice warm fuzzy feeling about it. So you don't care about using death for political purposes...as long as it agrees with you.

Plus, the ghoulish delight you all take in demonizing this woman is repugnant....

So pointing out what she said is "demonizing her"? o_O Hmmmm! Nice to know that pointing out the facts is dirty pool. :p

Wow this shows you are not a reasonable person to talk to. Bush went after the people responsible for 9/11. So please, spare us the left wing partisan insanity.

Was Iraq responsible for 9/11? Answer that before you call me unreasonable.

So pointing out what she said is "demonizing her"? o_O Hmmmm! Nice to know that pointing out the facts is dirty pool. :p

No, calling her a whore, a liar and a traitor for not repeating herself verbatim 100% of the time is demonizing her. Have you never changed your mind about someting? Has a shock never rattled your beliefs?

Ah, so calling you a Bush-supporter is offensive to you? Interesting.

How exactly is she twisted? Is she breaking the law? Does she enjoy other's pain? Is she in to sexual practices with livestock?

Admit it, if she was preaching something you agree with, you wouldn't be calling her out at all. If someone stood up and said "My son died for this country. He was a good and brave man who loved his country. Anyone who criticized Bush should be ashamed of themselves!" you'd have no problem at all, and would probably get a nice warm fuzzy feeling about it. So you don't care about using death for political purposes...as long as it agrees with you.

You have no dignity.

I'm not a Bush supporter. I'm just an observer as far as I'm concerned in this topic. I don't agree with her, but just because I don't agree with her doesn't make me a bush supporter.

So please if you have nothing constructive to say move on. If someone said that I would say they shouldn't mix politics in it. I don't when it comes to my own family. I really don't care about Cindy Sheehan.

And yes I do care about using death political purposes. You are being very unreasonable.

You are just a partisan with some sour grapes.

Was Iraq responsible for 9/11? Answer that before you call me unreasonable.

I never said Iraq was responsible for 9/11. Go ahead launch more personal attacks. Just shows you never had an argument and you are extremely unreasonable.

I never said Iraq was responsible for 9/11. Go ahead launch more personal attacks. Just shows you never had an argument and you are extremely unreasonable.

I said Bush used 9/11 as a catalyst to go into Iraq. You said Bush went after the people responsible for 9/11. I asked if Iraq was responsible for 9/11.

Now, it can't be argued that 9/11 didn't grease the wheels for going into Iraq. It also can't be argued that Bush didn't intentionally use this. It's a smart thing to do politically, though utterly ruthless. That's politics for you. It's not a nice game. So, therefore, the deaths of 9/11 were used for political gain. Can you honestly argue that? Now, you may not be a Bush supporter. Okay. But still, you don't criticize him for doing the exact same thing, on a larger and more impersonal scale, that Cindy Sheehan is doing.

Now, answer that last point before you call me another name or dismiss my argument as unreasonable. Becuase you still haven't addressed my argument.

Was Iraq responsible for 9/11? Answer that before you call me unreasonable.

No. You are unreasonable.

I am curious, do you think Harry Truman was a good President?

I said Bush used 9/11 as a catalyst to go into Iraq. You said Bush went after the people responsible for 9/11. I asked if Iraq was responsible for 9/11.

Now, it can't be argued that 9/11 didn't grease the wheels for going into Iraq. It also can't be argued that Bush intentionally used this. It's a smart thing to do politically, though utterly ruthless. So, therefore, the deaths of 9/11 were used for political gain. Can you honestly argue that? Now, you may not be a Bush supporter. Okay. But still, you don't criticize him for doing the exact same thing, on a larger and more impersonal scale, that Cindy Sheehan is doing.

Now, answer that last point before you call me another name or dismiss my argument as unreasonable. Becuase you still haven't addressed my argument.

You can say all you want. But as far as I'm concerned you got your head in the sand. You are biased and a partisan. Not reasonable.. just like those Lyndon LaRouche supporters at my campus who try to pass out nonsense.

That paragraph about Bush doing this, is not true. In fact utterly false and is a partisan left wing interpretation of the reality. I don't buy into your argument therefore Bush didn't do it, like what Cindy is doing.

Unreasonable, biased and rude.

No. You are unreasonable.

I am curious, do you think Harry Truman was a good President?

A. Thanks for the observation. How exactly am I unreasonable?

B. What does that have to do with this topic?

You can say all you want. But as far as I'm concerned you got your head in the sand. You are biased and a partisan. Not reasonable.. just like those Lyndon LaRouche supporters at my campus who try to pass out nonsense.

That paragraph about Bush doing this, is not true. In fact utterly false and is a partisan left wing interpretation of the reality. I don't buy into your argument therefore Bush didn't do it, like what Cindy is doing.

Unreasonable, biased and rude.

It's not true? Bush didn't rally the country using 9/11 as a new standard for how we should act? Isn't a big part of his platform that 9/11 changed everything? What's not true about my paragraph? How is my head in the sand? Did I leave something out? How can you sit there and say 9/11 (justifiably or not...that opinion has nothing to do with this argument) wasn't used politically?

But still, you won't answer my question. Would we be in Iraq now if 9/11 didn't happen?

A. Thanks for the observation. How exactly am I unreasonable?

B. What does that have to do with this topic?

I only did what you asked.

Now, satisfy my curiosity. It's the decent thing to do.

It's not true? Bush didn't rally the country using 9/11 as a new standard for how we should act? Isn't a big part of his platform that 9/11 changed everything? What's not true about my paragraph? How is my head in the sand? Did I leave something out? How can you sit there and say 9/11 (justifiably or not...that opinion has nothing to do with this argument) wasn't used politically?

We had to go after those responsible. Just like what a detective does when someone commits a murder. And then make an arrest (or kill). You just have your head in the sand. You just don't like the war on terror because it contradicts your political goals. Good thing we don't live in a world modeled after your views.

I only did what you asked.

Now, satisfy my curiosity. It's the decent thing to do.

Tell me how it applies to the topic at hand, and I'll be happy to answer.

Tell me how it applies to the topic at hand, and I'll be happy to answer.

Great. If you can't see the connection, you shouldn't be judging presidential performances. At all.

Go read a history book.

We had to go after those responsible. Just like what a detective does when someone commits a murder. And then make an arrest (or kill). You just have your head in the sand. You just don't like the war on terror because it contradicts your political goals. Good thing we don't live in a world modeled after your views.

Ha. Why do you think I'm against the war on terror? I was happy with Afghanistan...untill men and supplies were taken away to pursue an Iraq War. I'm against the Iraq war. I distinguish between the two, and I think you do too. That's why you won't answer my question about whether Iraq was responsible for 9/11.

I ask it one more time: Was Iraq responsible for 9/11?

If not, then the deaths of 9/11 were used, in a political fashion, to justify the Iraq war. Now, you might say that that was the right thing to do. Fine. The ends are what we're discussing here, just the means.

Great. If you can't see the connection, you shouldn't be judging presidential performances. At all.

Go read a history book.

Nice dodge.

Ha. Why do you think I'm against the war on terror? I was happy with Afghanistan...untill men and supplies were taken away to pursue an Iraq War. I'm against the Iraq war. I distinguish between the two, and I think you do too. That's why you won't answer my question about whether Iraq was responsible for 9/11.

You are making jumps. I never said Iraq was responsible for 9/11. Nor did the Bush adminstration. But I am for both wars. And we didn't take men away from Afghanistan.. in fact we stepped up presence.

I'm for the war in Iraq. And you don't tell me what I think. Why I won't answer your question? Why the dense statement? I did answer it. No and I never said it did.

You should read up on recent history.


If not, then the deaths of 9/11 were used, in a political fashion, to justify the Iraq war. Now, you might say that that was the right thing to do. Fine. The ends are what we're discussing here, just the means.

If not then the deaths of 9/11 were used in a political fashion? No they weren't. You just don't know what you are saying. You are making jumps and logical errors. GREAT!

Great. If you can't see the connection, you shouldn't be judging presidential performances. At all.

Go read a history book.

Nice dodge.

No, calling her a whore, a liar and a traitor for not repeating herself verbatim 100% of the time is demonizing her. Have you never changed your mind about someting? Has a shock never rattled your beliefs?

Funny. The words "whore","liar" and "traitor" were not a part of this thread until *you* brought them in here. You and you alone are responsible for the words you use. Argue against what has been said by us rather than what you wish us to say.

As for changes of heart and shock, radical conversions occur but when they do the person who has undergone such may be justifiably expected to argue against his earlier self if he wants that conversion respected. Perversely enough I agree with you on that shock but that does not work in your favor since I essentially regard her case as one of a nervous breakdown victim whose dementia is being exploited by the Left. My suspicion is that when she wakes up from this she'll find herself abandoned by those "anti war" activists she thought were her friends, alienated from such comfort of family as she might otherwise have had, and torn from her reputation and her sense of self-worth for the sake of those "anti war" people who are using her as a puppet. Let's hope I'm wrong. But nothing that I've seen so far suggests that I am.

You are making jumps. I never said Iraq was responsible for 9/11. Nor did the Bush adminstration. But I am for both wars. And we didn't take men away from Afghanistan.. in fact we stepped up presence.

I'm for the war in Iraq. And you don't tell me what I think. Why I won't answer your question? Why the dense statement? I did answer it. No and I never said it did.

You should read up on recent history.



If not then the deaths of 9/11 were used in a political fashion? No they weren't. You just don't know what you are saying. You are making jumps and logical errors. GREAT!

And what logical errors are those? Here, I'll link to the Fallacies Index so that you can point it out:

http://datanation.com/fallacies/index.htm

http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/slippery-slope.html

Good night, gymoor. I got classes early tomorrow.

Nice dodge.

So good you have to say it twice?

It's a fair enough question, that you can't (won't -?) answer.

So good you have to say it twice?

It's a fair enough question, that you can't (won't -?) answer.

Tell me how it applies and I'll answer. Gee, I had to say that twice too.

Tell me how it applies and I'll answer. Gee, I had to say that twice too.

Cease your political hackery, Sir. You were asked a direct question, and you refused to answer.

You then responded to my refusal to qualify a perfectly reasonable question with accusations of "a dodge".

Funny. The words "whore","liar" and "traitor" were not a part of this thread until *you* brought them in here. You and you alone are responsible for the words you use. Argue against what has been said by us rather than what you wish us to say.

As for changes of heart and shock, radical conversions occur but when they do the person who has undergone such may be justifiably expected to argue against his earlier self if he wants that conversion respected. Perversely enough I agree with you on that shock but that does not work in your favor since I essentially regard her case as one of a nervous breakdown victim whose dementia is being exploited by the Left. My suspicion is that when she wakes up from this she'll find herself abandoned by those "anti war" activists she thought were her friends, alienated from such comfort of family as she might otherwise have had, and torn from her reputation and her sense of self-worth for the sake of those "anti war" people who are using her as a puppet. Let's hope I'm wrong. But nothing that I've seen so far suggests that I am.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=9531282#post9531282

In your own words, she's a tool and a fleshbot, and Anti-War people are crooks, bums and traitors....and that was just one post. Gee, I wonder what I'd find if I dug deeper?

And don't try to tell me that others who also disagree with Mrs. Sheehan haven't called her worse.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=9531282#post9531282

In your own words, she's a tool and a fleshbot, and Anti-War people are crooks, bums and traitors....and that was just one post. Gee, I wonder what I'd find if I dug deeper?

And don't try to tell me that others who also disagree with Mrs. Sheehan haven't called her worse.

HA, you won't answer a single reasonable question, but you are more than willing to go thread digging to malign others.

Good show. I hope in the future all political debate in this country can maintain the high standards you set.

HA, you won't answer a single reasonable question, but you are more than willing to go thread digging to malign others.

Good show. I hope in the future all political debate in this country can maintain the high standards you set.

Wait, so looking at someone's prior statements to see if they are consistent is bad? Wow, the whole justification for this thread just imploded. Thanks.

Again. I'll answer your question when you tell how it connects. I've said why my questions are pertinent. Feel free to do the same. :D

Wait, so looking at someone's prior statements to see if they are consistent is bad? Wow, the whole justification for this thread just imploded. Thanks.

Again. I'll answer your question when you tell how it connects. I've said why my questions are pertinent. Feel free to do the same. :D

Did you tell them yet that your boy Al Gore was supported by Fred Phelps?

Thought not.

Did you tell them yet that your boy Al Gore was supported by Fred Phelps?

Thought not.

LOL. :p

pwned.

Did you tell them yet that your boy Al Gore was supported by Fred Phelps?

Thought not.

And did you mention that subsequently Phelps help up a sign at Gore's father's funeral saying that Gore's father will burn in hell? Yeah, they're chums. Also, wtf does this have to do with the topic at hand?

Let me boil down my argument to get us back on track:

The Anti-Sheehan Credo (generally...there are always exceptions.)

Bush using 9/11 and the deaths involved to hype a war with Iraq = Good

Using the death of her son to hype getting out of Iraq = Bad

Is that about right?

Bush using 9/11 and the deaths involved to hype a war with Iraq = Good

Using the death of her son to hype getting out of Iraq = Bad

Is that about right?

Statements like that really show you have nothing but weak minded attacks. Get something new please. The typical left wing talking point doesn't cut it anymore.

LOL. :p

pwned.

Oh, kinda like I pwned!!1!!one!!!eleven!happyface!happyface you with my comment about you single-handedly dismantling the justification for this entire article? Noted. :D

Statements like that really show you have nothing but weak minded attacks. Get something new please. The typical left wing talking point doesn't cut it anymore.

Okay, then explain to me in detail what is incorrect about my admittedly oversimplified synopsis.

Explain to me how constantly mentioning Iraq and 9/11 together and making the rationalization that 9/11 justifies unconnected pre-emptive action isn't using 9/11 as a politicizing tool?

Tell me how Sheehan connecting her son's death to disagreeing with the Iraq War differs.

Also, if they're such weak-minded points, then tell exactly how they don't measure up. Really, if I'm making such horrible points, I'd appreciate the education.

And did you mention that subsequently Phelps help up a sign at Gore's father's funeral saying that Gore's father will burn in hell? Yeah, they're chums. Also, wtf does this have to do with the topic at hand?

Let me boil down my argument to get us back on track:

The Anti-Sheehan Credo (generally...there are always exceptions.)

Bush using 9/11 and the deaths involved to hype a war with Iraq = Good

Using the death of her son to hype getting out of Iraq = Bad

Is that about right?

Oh. I don't mind mentioning that at all. It's cool. Frankly it just shows what cynical fucks the Gorebots are. What you are talking about didn't occur until after at least a decade of personal support which the gorebot never distanced himself from. Why do you think he can't get elected dog-catcher in his home state now?

So what's worse? A person who will travel with a homophobe when it suits them, or someone who actually is a homophobe.

I suppose the former is better, because at least they are only pretending that they think all homosexuals should die. :rolleyes:

And you really have no point. You said your bit. It, as usual, makes no sense.

Here's a class project, tell me how we can leave Iraq?

Oh, kinda like I pwned!!1!!one!!!eleven!happyface!happyface you with my comment about you single-handedly dismantling the justification for this entire article? Noted. :D

Dude, you took that on the chin. Be a sportsman about it at least.

HA, you won't answer a single reasonable question, but you are more than willing to go thread digging to malign others.

Good show. I hope in the future all political debate in this country can maintain the high standards you set.

Right here, you directly equate comparing someone's previous statements with their current ones to maligning someone. Since I linked the post, you know I'm not taking him out of context.

The thread opens with someone comparing Sheehan's previous statements with her current ones.

Who took what on the chin now?

Now perhaps you can explain to me how mentioning Phelps and Gore connects to any of this, and why bringing up any connection they may have pwns me in any way shape or form? Perhaps we should ask Harry Truman.

Wait, so looking at someone's prior statements to see if they are consistent is bad? Wow, the whole justification for this thread just imploded. Thanks.

Again. I'll answer your question when you tell how it connects. I've said why my questions are pertinent. Feel free to do the same. :D
Gymoor, I assume you are American. Let me say that it's refreshing to read posts such as yours. I don't know who Casey Sheehan was but reading the posts I've understood what the issues are around him and his mother.

My advice is just keep saying the things you do. It's just possible you may change the mind of at least one of the "closed minded" brigade.

I was against the war in iraq from the very beginning. i was one of the demonstartors who tried to convince Parliament, here in Britain that they should not enter the war in Iraq, when the vote was taken.

Now all are aware of all the lies and deceit that the American and British political elite were guilty of.

If only more Americans thought as you do, then maybe we could see an end to the occupation in Iraq.

Right here, you directly equate comparing someone's previous statements with their current ones to maligning someone. Since I linked the post, you know I'm not taking him out of context.

The thread opens with someone comparing Sheehan's previous statements with her current ones.

Who took what on the chin now?

Now perhaps you can explain to me how mentioning Phelps and Gore connects to any of this, and why bringing up any connection they may have pwns me in any way shape or form? Perhaps we should ask Harry Truman.

Chewing my way through that. I don't think I directly equated anything to anything. But if you feel it sounds good, go ahead and say it.

But no. I asked you a perfectly reasonable question about your opinions on a former president in order to gauge where you are coming from, and you refused because I wouldn't qualify it. Then someone else points out that a politician you may like is a rampant homophobe. Naturally, this raises questions about your motivation.

Then you go thread digging and distort what someone says in order to score further "points".

Answer my question gymoor, if that really is your name.

How can we leave Iraq?

Gymoor, I assume you are American. Let me say that it's refreshing to read posts such as yours. I don't know who Casey Sheehan was but reading the posts I've understood what the issues are around him and his mother.

My advice is just keep saying the things you do. It's just possible you may change the mind of at least one of the "closed minded" brigade.

I was against the war in iraq from the very beginning. i was one of the demonstartors who tried to convince Parliament, here in Britain that they should not enter the war in Iraq, when the vote was taken.

Now all are aware of all the lies and deceit that the American and British political elite were guilty of.

If only more Americans thought as you do, then maybe we could see an end to the occupation in Iraq.

Yeah, well I'm English. Not "British". I am glad we toppled saddam, and I am glad we are trying to give those poor people a working country. But as usual, people like you are only interested in Bob Geldoff problems. You know, the ones that can't be fixed, so we see his face every day on the news.

I bet you cheered when you heard the mint was going to take britiania off the 50p too. And I bet you died a little bit yesterday also.

I bet he did.
Look people die in War and i always had the feeling he would have wanted to go.
Its not Bush's fault he died.

Yeah, well I'm English. Not "British". I am glad we toppled saddam, and I am glad we are trying to give those poor people a working country. But as usual, people like you are only interested in Bob Geldoff problems. You know, the ones that can't be fixed, so we see his face every day on the news.

I bet you cheered when you heard the mint was going to take britiania off the 50p too. And I bet you died a little bit yesterday also.
Good for you that your English, I'm delighted to say that I'm Scottish. I have nothing but contempt for Bob Geldof, I couldn't give a toss if Britannia is taken off the 50 p coin, I assume you are referring to the cricket when you claim "you died a little bit yesterday", "Yawn"

As to your claim that we are giving poor people in Iraq a working country! Does that include the (still) untold 10's of 1,000's of Iraqis killed by the occupation forces?

Why do you think People in Iraq are still dying, it's because the presence of aggressive military forces from europe and america has destabilised the country.

Why did we suffer the terrorist activities of last July in London.......well I thinmk you know the anser to that one?

I bet he did.
Look people die in War and i always had the feeling he would have wanted to go.
Its not Bush's fault he died.


Well, yah..it is.

Bush didnt pull the trigger, of course, but he did start the war, unprovoked.
and especially considering Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11.
If Bush had not made these choices, Sheehan would be alive.

Good for you that your English, I'm delighted to say that I'm Scottish. I have nothing but contempt for Bob Geldof, I couldn't give a toss if Britannia is taken off the 50 p coin, I assume you are referring to the cricket when you claim "you died a little bit yesterday", "Yawn"

As to your claim that we are giving poor people in Iraq a working country! Does that include the (still) untold 10's of 1,000's of Iraqis killed by the occupation forces?

Why do you think People in Iraq are still dying, it's because the presence of aggressive military forces from europe and america has destabilised the country.

Why did we suffer the terrorist activities of last July in London.......well I thinmk you know the anser to that one?\

You're not Scottish. Poseur.

Well, yah..it is.

Bush didnt pull the trigger, of course, but he did start the war, unprovoked.
and especially considering Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11.
If Bush had not made these choices, Sheehan would be alive.
I was waiting for that.
Question is did he tamper with the evidence or was it Haliburton?

\

You're not Scottish. Poseur.
lol, how do I prove my celtic ancestory online. Let me try by writing in the Glaswegian dialect:

Yu've no made ony points thatr makin ony sense, aww yer dain is exposing yer ain innate prejidice. Ahh pit furw'd a couple hings tae deal wae yer false claims an you still huvnae respondit tae thum. ur ye feart or whut?

There! hopefully that will reject your accusation that I am a "posuer"?

I was waiting for that.
Question is did he tamper with the evidence or was it Haliburton?

Both.

But, I must confess, I have no idea of what youre talking about.

"Evidence"?

Did I miss something?

After all, everyone screams about evidence on NS.
Nobody ever has much to show.

Both.

But, I must confess, I have no idea of what youre talking about.

"Evidence"?

Did I miss something?

After all, everyone screams about evidence on NS.
Nobody ever has much to show.
For weapons of Mass Destruction?

lol, how do I prove my celtic ancestory online. Let me try by writing in the Glaswegian dialect:

Yu've no made ony points thatr makin ony sense, aww yer dain is exposing yer ain innate prejidice. Ahh pit furw'd a couple hings tae deal wae yer false claims an you still huvnae respondit tae thum. ur ye feart or whut?

There! hopefully that will reject your accusation that I am a "posuer"?

Glaswegians can't type. Let alone use a computer. Next time you try and pose as a Scot on teh intraweb, at least make it convincing by claiming you are from Perthshire, or some such.

Edit: and a glaswegian would never say "innate". so stop being silly.

Glaswegians can't type. Let alone use a computer. Next time you try and pose as a Scot on teh intraweb, at least make it convincing by claiming you are from Perthshire, or some such.

Edit: and a glaswegian would never say "innate". so stop being silly.
"aww yer dain is exposing yer ain innate prejidice"

I rest my case!

For weapons of Mass Destruction?


You mean the lack of evidence?

Or, the fact that no American military (or para-military) forces are even looking for it anymore?

(Im not being a smartass, Im just really confused as to what you meant.)

"aww yer dain is exposing yer ain innate prejidice"

I rest my case!


I gotta ask yeh.

Whats a "Gonk Bag"?

"aww yer dain is exposing yer ain innate prejidice"

I rest my case!

"hadaway and shite." :rolleyes:

Clearly, I must be Novacastrian. So stop this pretence now.

I gotta ask yeh.

Whats a "Gonk Bag"?
Who knows! that sounds more like chavspeak to me

"hadaway and shite." :rolleyes:

Clearly, I must be Novacastrian. So stop this pretence now.

Here's a little task for you.
Find the nearest available map of Glasgow, look at the south east section of the city. You will find an area called "Castlemilk" It once had the reputaion for being the largest council house population in western Europe.

Now look at my nationstates title
Has the penny finally dropped???????????

You mean the lack of evidence?

Or, the fact that no American military (or para-military) forces are even looking for it anymore?

(Im not being a smartass, Im just really confused as to what you meant.)
Sorry the first option.
Yes lack of evidence.
They created a web of lies got Colin Powell to preach them and then went about pillaging a nation for oil.

Who knows! that sounds more like chavspeak to me


BTW, Im an American, and for some strange reason, I blame my country for "Chavs".

Im not sure why ,really.


Probably something to do with Vanilla Ice.

Here's a little task for you.
Find the nearest available map of Glasgow, look at the south east section of the city. You will find an area called "Castlemilk" It once had the reputaion for being the largest council house population in western Europe.

Now look at my nationstates title
Has the penny finally dropped???????????

You don't even know what a Novacastrian is, do you? You picked a bit from a map, that's all. I am not impressed. Now stop posing, yank.

BTW, Im an American, and for some strange reason, I blame my country for "Chavs".

Im not sure why ,really.


Probably something to do with Vanilla Ice.
I think over here in Britain, beckham and posh spice have to take responsibility for chavness proliferating in British cities.

Sorry the first option.
Yes lack of evidence.
They created a web of lies got Colin Powell to preach them and then went about pillaging a nation for oil.


Not just the oil.

A secured military staging point for the inevitable middle-east collapse, and the securing of future oil interests.

So it was about the oil....

and the future oil, too!

Yeah, well I'm English. Not "British". I am glad we toppled saddam, and I am glad we are trying to give those poor people a working country. But as usual, people like you are only interested in Bob Geldoff problems. You know, the ones that can't be fixed, so we see his face every day on the news.

I bet you cheered when you heard the mint was going to take britiania off the 50p too. And I bet you died a little bit yesterday also.

Ooooooo (googly eyes,) Consider me put in my place.

You don't even know what a Novacastrian is, do you? You picked a bit from a map, that's all. I am not impressed. Now stop posing, yank.
You can't take coals to newcastle and you can't kid a kidder.
In your skewed vision of surreal reality, I have obviously been waiting since 2003 to prove to you my celtic connection.

I think over here in Britain, beckham and posh spice have to take responsibility for chavness proliferating in British cities.


Did you have any "proto-chav" types in the late 80's-early 90's?
Famous ones, I mean?

Cause Im thinkin Ol' Ice Ice Baby, made being an obnoxious wanna-be, popular.

Here's a little task for you.
Find the nearest available map of Glasgow, look at the south east section of the city. You will find an area called "Castlemilk" It once had the reputaion for being the largest council house population in western Europe.

Now look at my nationstates title
Has the penny finally dropped???????????

One would have assumed - stupidly of course, given your sage advice - that the largest council house population would have been in the largest City, i.e. London. And if that was not the case, then it would have occurred under the Nationalization schemes of the late fourties, thus making the mining districts of Yorkshire or the North East of England the closest contenders.

In fact, as far as I know, the actual amount of council housing in glasgow was always rather small compared to other cities.

You can't take coals to newcastle and you can't kid a kidder.
In your skewed vision of surreal reality, I have obviously been waiting since 2003 to prove to you my celtic connection.


I have two questions.

1. Exactly, why cant I take coals to Newcastle?

2. What the hell is a Novacastrian?

Did you have any "proto-chav" types in the late 80's-early 90's?
Famous ones, I mean?

Cause Im thinkin Ol' Ice Ice Baby, made being an obnoxious wanna-be, popular.
Yes in fact speaking of Newcastle, there is Gazza (paul Gascoigne, the prototype chav!

You can't take coals to newcastle and you can't kid a kidder.
In your skewed vision of surreal reality, I have obviously been waiting since 2003 to prove to you my celtic connection.

There hasn't been coals from Newcastle for thirty years pet. Google all you want. If you're from Glasgow, I'm from South Africa. (Celtic connection :rolleyes: , no-one talks like that).

Not just the oil.

A secured military staging point for the inevitable middle-east collapse, and the securing of future oil interests.

So it was about the oil....

and the future oil, too!
yes and a staging ground for another flank to attack China from.
*Shifty eyes*

I have two questions.

1. Exactly, why cant I take coals to Newcastle?

2. What the hell is a Novacastrian?

And what does any of this have to do with the topic at hand. Though I may not agree with the original poster, I recognize their right have have their thread at least resemble the original topic.

Yes in fact speaking of Newcastle, there is Gazza (paul Gascoigne, the prototype chav!

He was from Gateshead, not Newcastle. (Heathfield, if you must know).

One would have assumed - stupidly of course, given your sage advice - that the largest council house population would have been in the largest City, i.e. London. And if that was not the case, then it would have occurred under the Nationalization schemes of the late fourties, thus making the mining districts of Yorkshire or the North East of England the closest contenders.

In fact, as far as I know, the actual amount of council housing in glasgow was always rather small compared to other cities.
Actually Glasgow District Council was (and still is the largest provider of council house accomodation in Britain. It may only be the third largest city in the UK but you have to remember that London is made up of Boroughs, each being separately responsible for council house allocation. Glasgow has the highest rate of rented as opposed to privately owned accomodation per head of population.

And what does any of this have to do with the topic at hand?

Absolutely nothing.



Though I may not agree with the original poster, I recognize their right have have their thread at least resemble the original topic.

Wait for it....its coming.

I have two questions.

1. Exactly, why cant I take coals to Newcastle?

2. What the hell is a Novacastrian?
1) It's an old saying refering to the fact that at one time Newcastle was one of the largest coal mining areas in the UK

2) a Novacastrian is someone who comes from Newcastle

Actually Glasgow District Council was (and still is the largest provider of council house accomodation in Britain. It may only be the third largest city in the UK but you have to remember that London is made up of Boroughs, each being separately responsible for council house allocation. Glasgow has the highest rate of rented as opposed to privately owned accomodation per head of population.

Hmm, well I'll take your word for it. I fly in there quite a bit, and it is quite a nice city now, so I suppose you loose sight of that fact. That doesn't mean it has the highest concentration of council housing ever though. I mean, look at liverpool.

1) It's an old saying refering to the fact that at one time Newcastle was one of the largest coal mining areas in the UK

2) a Novacastrian is someone who comes from Newcastle

Rong, and Rong.

Please play again.

yes and a staging ground for another flank to attack China from.
*Shifty eyes*


I really dont think so.

China and the U.S are far too deep into each others pockets, to even consider a war.

(I dont think you were serious, anyway.)

But as for this:

Not just the oil.

A secured military staging point for the inevitable middle-east collapse, and the securing of future oil interests.

So it was about the oil....

and the future oil, too!

I meant every word of it.

1) It's an old saying refering to the fact that at one time Newcastle was one of the largest coal mining areas in the UK

2) a Novacastrian is someone who comes from Newcastle

Gotcha.

Hmm, well I'll take your word for it. I fly in there quite a bit, and it is quite a nice city now, so I suppose you loose sight of that fact. That doesn't mean it has the highest concentration of council housing ever though. I mean, look at liverpool.
If you can't take my word for it, then you should check the Glasgow District Council website. It's extremely informative.

I agree that Glasgow is indeed a beautiful city but sadly still has a lot of unemployment and poverty in places like......Castlemilk!

Gotcha.
No probs. Nice chattin with you, I'm off to work now. "Yes Flintock "WORK"

If you can't take my word for it, then you should check the Glasgow District Council website. It's extremely informative.

I agree that Glasgow is indeed a beautiful city but sadly still has a lot of unemployment and poverty in places like......Castlemilk!

Well I am hardly going to waste my time doing internet research. So I'll take your word for it.

I do remember something about that "gorbels" place being knocked down in the 80s.

No probs. Nice chattin with you, I'm off to work now. "Yes Flintock "WORK"

Further lies.

-snip--Wait for it....its coming.

Oh, I know. I can't wait.

I really dont think so.

China and the U.S are far too deep into each others pockets, to even consider a war.

(I dont think you were serious, anyway.)

But as for this:



I meant every word of it.
Well depending on the Taiwan situation anything could happen.
Plus obviously without Iraq being in the way it doesnt really help in an invasion of china....

Well depending on the Taiwan situation anything could happen.
Plus obviously without Iraq being in the way it doesnt really help in an invasion of china....


The Taiwan issue is a serious one, granted.
I dont think either side seriously wants to push the issue.
With SO much money trading hands every day between China and the US, I seriously cant imagine either side would damage trade relations, over a tiny island.

Feeling he had a duty and wanting to go are completely seperate things people.

Plus, the ghoulish delight you all take in demonizing this woman is repugnant. I've heard her called a whore, a bitch, a liar and more. Why? Because she was polite and subdued and didn't want to make waves while the death of her child was still fresh? I guess it's too much to ask that the body be cold before she actually starts to run things over in her head and decided that something doesn't seem right?

Oh, that's right. In today's America, it's not okay to change your mind. It's not okay to question one's assumptions and begin to speak out. Nooooo. That would be Un-American.

Seriously. Shame on you all. I've seen plenty of Bush-supporting, grieving mothers and fathers. I've even seen some repeat things that are known not to be true (WMD in Iraq, 9/11-Iraq connection.) Never once have I ever had the urge to call or even think of any of them as bitches, liars and whores. I'd be ashamed of myself if I did. It's that low. It makes it so much worse how greedily you all lap it up and spew it back out.

Also, when Clinton had cause to use our men and women in armed conflict, none of you "criticizing the war is Un-American!" repeateers said one word in defense of our President or the morale of our troops then. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Finally, I challenge all to you, if there was text available on various things you've said over time, to pretend that you've always been 100% consistent. We all reverse ourselves, see things in a different light or find reason to question ourselves. And we all have our reasons for doing so. But you people...YOU PEOPLE, won't even extend that same right to a woman who lost her son in a war that she doesn't believe in. Shame on all of you people trying to burn her at the stake. I AM NOT saying you have to agree with her, but at least accord her some grudging respect. It's the only human thing to do.

Seriously. This is bottom-feeding behavior. This is villagers with torches and pitchforks bahavior. Civilized people don't act like this.


Reading Cindy's early comments, it appears that Casey wanted to go to Iraq but that's not what she's been saying lately. As for name calling, you ought to read what Cindy calls Bush and the parents who lost sons or daughters in Iraq but continue to support the war.

As for my own opinion of Cindy, I believe she is a liar and have said so in other forums. I also think though, that she needs professional help. The kind of help she won't get from the likes of Code Pink, Aswer or Veterans For Peace. Cindy has given up much in the past year or so. She lost a son but has also lost her husband, her job, all the friends she had before Casey died and according to statements made by Patrick Sheehan, her surviving children are angry with her for ignoring them. In some ways, she seems to be acting like she's part of a cult and has isolated herself from her family and former aquintances.

Casey himself, but all accounts, was an honorable, devout young man who volunteered to go on a mission in which he lost his life and for that, he ought to be praised. As for Cindy, maybe we ought to feel pity for her and hope she can get back some semblence of the life she and her family once had.

Finally, I challenge all to you, if there was text available on various things you've said over time, to pretend that you've always been 100% consistent. We all reverse ourselves, see things in a different light or find reason to question ourselves.

Opinions change but the basic facts do not. Cindy, by my count, has given four different versions of her meeting with Bush. The first version was in the Vacaville Reporter article, the second in the interview published in buzzflash in Oct of last year, the third in an interview that was published in LewisNews in July of this year and the 4th was the interview with Wolf Blitzer of CNN.

Cindy has also given various descriptions on how Casey died. He was killed immediately after the ambush began according to some of her accounts. In others, she said that Casey lived for awhile, managed to return fire and died in his best friend's arm. The latest version given by Cindy is that Casey died at a medical station where a medic tried to hold Casey's brains in his head while the doctors attempted to keep him breathing.

The preceding are not examples of a person changing their opinion but of a person changing the basic facts.

--snip-- The preceding are not examples of a person changing their opinion but of a person changing the basic facts.

But that's rampant in all aspects of government and politics. It's not just "the other guys" who do it. They all do it, and they do it often and they mostly do it without any pangs of remorse. The problem is that everyday partisan people (and I've been guilty of this myself...but at least I recognize it and strive to correct it,) often rationalize the actions of people's whose philosophy matches their own.

These accustations could easily be leveled at just about any person in any walk of life at any time. Because Cindy is a loud proponent for an idea diametrically opposed to some people's inclinations, certain examples of same feel the need to tear her down, rather than face her points head-on.

You are making jumps. I never said Iraq was responsible for 9/11. Nor did the Bush adminstration. But I am for both wars. And we didn't take men away from Afghanistan.. in fact we stepped up presence.

I'm for the war in Iraq. And you don't tell me what I think. Why I won't answer your question? Why the dense statement? I did answer it. No and I never said it did.

You should read up on recent history.



If not then the deaths of 9/11 were used in a political fashion? No they weren't. You just don't know what you are saying. You are making jumps and logical errors. GREAT!

How about, just by typing into my websearcher, "9/11+iraq+bush" getting this, first hit (the caption at the top of my server read "Page 1 of 1050000 results" which kinda hints this wasn't the first or last time he used it. And - even better - I CAN REMEMBER HIM AND HIS ADMINISTRATION EXPLICITLY LINKING IRAQ WITH 9/11):-


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A50679-2004Jun17.html

I take it the Washington Post quoting Bush himself is a good source?

Therefore, Bush used 9/11 to justify Iraq. End of.

How about, just by typing into my websearcher, "9/11+iraq+bush" getting this, first hit (the caption at the top of my server read "Page 1 of 1050000 results" which kinda hints this wasn't the first or last time he used it. And - even better - I CAN REMEMBER HIM AND HIS ADMINISTRATION EXPLICITLY LINKING IRAQ WITH 9/11):-


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A50679-2004Jun17.html

I take it the Washington Post quoting Bush himself is a good source?

Therefore, Bush used 9/11 to justify Iraq. End of.

anticipated reaction to your post:

No he didn't!!

Im sick and tired of hearing about this greedy women, and ive debated it in too many threads that ive lost all intrest in debating her even more

Im sick and tired of hearing about this greedy women, and ive debated it in too many threads that ive lost all intrest in debating her even more

Um, apparently not...

The Taiwan issue is a serious one, granted.
I dont think either side seriously wants to push the issue.
With SO much money trading hands every day between China and the US, I seriously cant imagine either side would damage trade relations, over a tiny island.
Thats true i wouldn t be surprised if the US let China take China though.