NationStates Jolt Archive

80% of the world's population lives on 400 dollars a year for a 4 family house.

What does that say about us as a species when most of us can barely live?

I know how I feel. I find it very depressing. The "civilized" world makes up a small percentage of the population, yet it uses almost all the resources that it has wrested from the hands of the "Third World".

How do you feel?

80% of the world's population lives on 400 dollars a year for a 4 family house.

What does that say about us as a species when most of us can barely live?

I know how I feel. I find it very depressing. The "civilized" world makes up a small percentage of the population, yet it uses almost all the resources that it has wrested from the hands of the "Third World".

How do you feel?

Well, if i was being honest, i'd say "hungry", but thats because i haven't eaten all day. But you may think i was being flippant.

However, how does this fact make me feel? Angry. Depressed. Cynical.

it's natural and healty for people to live that way, and anybody who says different is a communist :p

Makes me wonder what the relative cost of living is in each and every different country.

"poor" people in USA have homes, cars, air conditioning, heat, running water, plenty of food (many are obese), tv, dvd, etc...

but I know that "third world" poor people have few or none of those things. But none of what I have was "wrested" from anyone.

Strange way of thinking. But anyway, that's why everyone comes to America!

And what have you done to help alleviate global poverty?
I'm not attacking. I'm genuinely curious.

And what have you done to help alleviate global poverty?
I'm not attacking. I'm genuinely curious.

i've done far too little. i avoid sweatshop-made items when i can and i try to take attitudes toward global economics/debt relief issues into account when voting, but other than that petty day-to-day issues always seem to get on top of me too much for me to be able to do much about it.

80% of the world's population lives on 400 dollars a year for a 4 family house.

What does that say about us as a species when most of us can barely live?

I know how I feel. I find it very depressing. The "civilized" world makes up a small percentage of the population, yet it uses almost all the resources that it has wrested from the hands of the "Third World".

How do you feel?
Fine, thank you. Five hundred years ago, you were a rich man if you made $400/year. Now, poverty levels are beginning to plummet.
And I don't know if your figure is entirely true. I mean, the World Bank says that only half the world is in its level of global poverty, being $2/day.

80% of the world's population lives on 400 dollars a year for a 4 family house.

Your figures are a bit off. Over the past generation there has been a very large decrease in absolute poverty, thanks mainly to rapid economic growth in China and economic growth in India.

It's also important to adjust for the cost of living in different countries. A U.S. dollar buys a lot more food and shelter in Mali than it does in America.

Personally I try to help people in developing nations by buying cheap products that are often made in sweatshops. I also think that the first world should work to eliminate hunger and preventable disease and reduce crime in the world. Some don't think people in the first world have any obligation to help those in the developing world, but I say why the hell not? Who cares if we have an obligation or not. You got anything better to do? And it's not going to break the bank. One percent of rich countries GDP for about ten years should do it.

And what have you done to help alleviate global poverty?
I'm not attacking. I'm genuinely curious.

It's hard still being in high-school, but I've done what I can. I'm a member of Amnesty International. I donate to charity where I can. I've participated in the Heifer Project which provides livestock to impoverished families. Also, I think trying to raise awareness is a good thing.

Sorry, I just kinda get worked up. I just seriously ask myself..."What can we think of ourselves as a species when we don't even look out for our fellow man?" That's why I brought this up.

80% of the world's population lives on 400 dollars a year for a 4 family house.

What does that say about us as a species when most of us can barely live?

I know how I feel. I find it very depressing. The "civilized" world makes up a small percentage of the population, yet it uses almost all the resources that it has wrested from the hands of the "Third World".

How do you feel?


I feel like if you get anymore left in your thinking youre gonna fall off the globe. Now go sell your computer and give the money away to the poor and go live out in some mud huts please since you are being so hypocritical.

And if most of us can barely live how the hell is the population in african skyrocking at almost 30% a year? oh yeah your liberal BS has fucked with natural selection to the point that IT IS THE REASON why people are starving because the local environment is being flooded with too many africans that the land just cant support it.

Personally I try to help people in developing nations by buying cheap products that are often made in sweatshops....

No that's called helping Walmart. :p

It's hard still being in high-school, but I've done what I can. I'm a member of Amnesty International. I donate to charity where I can. I've participated in the Heifer Project which provides livestock to impoverished families. Also, I think trying to raise awareness is a good thing.

Sorry, I just kinda get worked up. I just seriously ask myself..."What can we think of ourselves as a species when we don't even look out for our fellow man?" That's why I brought this up.


WHAT?! youre providing cows to South Americans that need them?! now they will need to burn the rain forest to provide land for them....you should be ashamed of yourself..youre destorying the environment for your human imperalism...

I feel like if you get anymore left in your thinking youre gonna fall off the globe. Now go sell your computer and give the money away to the poor and go live out in some mud huts please since you are being so hypocritical.

And if most of us can barely live how the hell is the population in african skyrocking at almost 30% a year? oh yeah your liberal BS has fucked with natural selection to the point that IT IS THE REASON why people are starving because the local environment is being flooded with too many africans that the land just cant support it.

Did I offend you in some way...?

And if you want "left" go talk to some of the others on this message board.

I feel like if you get anymore left in your thinking youre gonna fall off the globe. Now go sell your computer and give the money away to the poor and go live out in some mud huts please since you are being so hypocritical.

And if most of us can barely live how the hell is the population in african skyrocking at almost 30% a year? oh yeah your liberal BS has fucked with natural selection to the point that IT IS THE REASON why people are starving because the local environment is being flooded with too many africans that the land just cant support it.

i've said it before, and i'll say it again. dang right, how dare anybody care about anything and still live their own life. you tell them, gulf republics ;)

Did I offend you in some way...?

And if you want "left" go talk to some of the others on this message board.

I think your very existence offends him. Join the club. :rolleyes:

WHAT?! youre providing cows to South Americans that need them?! now they will need to burn the rain forest to provide land for them....you should be ashamed of yourself..youre destorying the environment for your human imperalism...

I sense alot of hostility in you. I reccomend yoga.

Hey, you're assuming I'm one of those hippy types...may as well act like one.

Or would you prefer a more "raging-pinko-liberal-commie-bastard" type of liberalism? Hmm?

I feel like if you get anymore left in your thinking youre gonna fall off the globe. Now go sell your computer and give the money away to the poor and go live out in some mud huts please since you are being so hypocritical.

And if most of us can barely live how the hell is the population in african skyrocking at almost 30% a year? oh yeah your liberal BS has fucked with natural selection to the point that IT IS THE REASON why people are starving because the local environment is being flooded with too many africans that the land just cant support it.

Ugggh, do you know what the logical conclusions of social darwinism are?

In nature, individual creatures live and die depending on how well they adapted to their environment.

Humans however have the strength and power to create their own environment. Social Darwinism is just an ideaology for those who don't care.

So how about this for an "I don't care" argument:

Should I feel guilty that others live in poverty while I live a healthy life? If the positions were switched, do you think they would have treated the rest similarly?

And how is presenting this to the powerless suppose to help anybody? It merely feeds the sub-conscious desire to see other people doing worse than they are. These sort of large scale problems should be directed to leaders, not ignorant weak public.

And is it really possible to eliminate suffering, as in the Marxist dream? Even if we could, would we like that sort of world. The true cause of suffering is not so much the feeling of suffering, but not knowing why one is suffering. When we have a reason to suffer, most people will actually strive to suffer. Take for instance a religious person who fasts, or a patriot who dies for their country. They have a reason to suffer (to appease God, or to help the nation) and they are happy to go through it.

Not my argument, but one I made up. Do with it as you wish.

And if most of us can barely live how the hell is the population in african skyrocking at almost 30% a year?

Let's see, assume half the population is female, the average age of menache is 16, average life expectancy 42...

Wow! According to you every single fertile african woman pumps out a kid every single year until she dies. Incredible! I never knew this! This means each African woman has on average twenty-six kids in her lifetime! That's astounding! Thank you for bringing this amazing fact to my attention.

Did I offend you in some way...?

And if you want "left" go talk to some of the others on this message board.


yes you did...

Youre screwing with nature and acting like you arnt. Youre making poverty worse..you think you are helping but you arnt...Youre doing exactly what you SHOULDNT do...

youre providing luxuries into a local environment that cant support it yet due to unadvanced culture, you cant suddenly surge in goods and technolgy because you will play havoc on the local environment to the point that it breaks down causing more need for MORE AID and youll send more and they multiply even more when they shouldnt be naturally and then they will need more aid and it tainspins to the point where the gobal economy is drained supporting people that shouldnt exist there in the first place and its REQURIED by 1st world nations to exploit supposed 3rd world resources because the 3rd world is so reliant on the 1st world to provide for them...

Stop thinking with your heart and think with your brain for the love of god. YOURE THE PROBLEM.

How does it feel knowing that every cow you gave to a south american family probably burned down a couple dozen acres of rain forest?!

I can buy a four family house for $400.

And people say there is a housing bubble. :rolleyes:

yes you did...

Youre screwing with nature and acting like you arnt. Youre making poverty worse..you think you are helping but you arnt...Youre doing exactly what you SHOULDNT do...

youre providing luxuries into a local environment that cant support it yet due to unadvanced culture, you cant suddenly surge in goods and technolgy because you will play havoc on the local environment to the point that it breaks down causing more need for MORE AID and youll send more and they multiply even more when they shouldnt be naturally and then they will need more aid and it tainspins to the point where the gobal economy is drained supporting people that shouldnt exist there in the first place and its REQURIED by 1st world nations to exploit supposed 3rd world resources because the 3rd world is so reliant on the 1st world to provide for them...

Stop thinking with your heart and think with your brain for the love of god. YOURE THE PROBLEM.

How does it feel knowing that every cow you gave to a south american family probably burned down a couple dozen acres of rain forest?!

At least I have a heart...sir...

I saw Camille Paglia on TV years ago (she cracks me up), she was saying that some other feminist (maybe Naomi Wolf) went around the world to developing and underdeveloped countries to see the extent of female oppression in these places. Much to her dismay, she found that the further she got from "Western" society, the happier the women seemed to be. This irked her mightily. "What the hell right do you people have to be so happy?! You should be miserable!"

My point is that how much money a family has to survive on does not necessarily translate into misery or happiness for them. How many people do you know with scads of money and they find other things to be miserable about? They drink themselves to death, or shoot themselves in the head over the stress of it all, when they have more than the kings of old ever had. Equally, very poor people may find happiness in tiny things that you and I would not even notice. Every soul has its own mission in this life, and we do not know what that mission is, so we shouldn't judge.

yes you did...

Youre screwing with nature and acting like you arnt. Youre making poverty worse..you think you are helping but you arnt...Youre doing exactly what you SHOULDNT do...

youre providing luxuries into a local environment that cant support it yet due to unadvanced culture, you cant suddenly surge in goods and technolgy because you will play havoc on the local environment to the point that it breaks down causing more need for MORE AID and youll send more and they multiply even more when they shouldnt be naturally and then they will need more aid and it tainspins to the point where the gobal economy is drained supporting people that shouldnt exist there in the first place and its REQURIED by 1st world nations to exploit supposed 3rd world resources because the 3rd world is so reliant on the 1st world to provide for them...

Stop thinking with your heart and think with your brain for the love of god. YOURE THE PROBLEM.

How does it feel knowing that every cow you gave to a south american family probably burned down a couple dozen acres of rain forest?!

what do you care if he makes things worse for the poor? they're not you.

My point is that how much money a family has to survive on does not necessarily translate into misery or happiness for them. How many people do you know with scads of money and they find other things to be miserable about? They drink themselves to death, or shoot themselves in the head over the stress of it all, when they have more than the kings of old ever had. Equally, very poor people may find happiness in tiny things that you and I would not even notice. Every soul has its own mission in this life, and we do not know what that mission is, so we shouldn't judge.

Quite right, well spoken.

I do believe that money does not neccesarily equal happiness. I know that poverty will probably not be eliminated in my lifetime. But, I can do what I can.

oh yeah your liberal BS has fucked with natural selection to the point that IT IS THE REASON why people are starving because the local environment is being flooded with too many africans that the land just cant support it.

But people aren't starving. You can't be starving and pumping out an average of twenty-six babies in your lifetime.

But I suppose it might be possible if only men were starving.

It sounds like Africa must be a land of well fed, pregnant, women and starving, sexually exhausted, men.

Youre screwing with nature and acting like you arnt. Youre making poverty worse..you think you are helping but you arnt...Youre doing exactly what you SHOULDNT do...

We're humans
We own nature
We can change it for better or worse, so why shouldn't we mess with nature.

And you haven't answered my first question.

But people aren't starving. You can't be starving and pumping out an average of twenty-six babies in your lifetime.

But I suppose it might be possible if only men were starving.

It sounds like Africa must be a land of well fed, pregnant, women and starving, sexually exhausted, men.

I know in context that shouldn't have made me laugh, but it did.

(Hands Phylum Chordata a Bolol Nuclear Cookie Mk. 2)

At least I have a heart...sir...


The road to hell is paved with good intentions, i dont blame your heart, but its a stupid cause that is causing more damage then good. Youre the George Bush of Global Poverty. Nice job numbnuts.

We're humans
We own nature
We can change it for better or worse, so why shouldn't we mess with nature.

And you haven't answered my first question.


Yeah New Olreans is a perfect example of what happens when we try to own nature...

Get off your high horse...All youre doing is introducing another form of imperalism on people under the guise of "aid"

The road to hell is paved with good intentions, i dont blame your heart, but its a stupid cause that is causing more damage then good. Youre the George Bush of Global Poverty. Nice job numbnuts.

Explain that analogy to me.

i've done far too little. i avoid sweatshop-made items when i can and i try to take attitudes toward global economics/debt relief issues into account when voting, but other than that petty day-to-day issues always seem to get on top of me too much for me to be able to do much about it.
If people in China or India don't have sweatshops. Where are they going to work? Go back to the farms and earn 5X less?

"What can we think of ourselves as a species when we don't even look out for our fellow man?"
I don’t know. Most species tend to do a fine job of not looking out for each other.

Honestly, I truly don’t care. I’m more concerned with helping people I personally know. Free money to African countries ultimately hurts them in the end anyway.

The human race as a whole lived like the Africans for at least 95% of our exsistence. Africa just has not progressed yet like most of the west has. Throwing money at the problem or feeding them all (which is very good, don't get me wrong) doesn't solve Africa's cultural problem. No amount of money and no government can help until Africa's culture is changed fundamentally which is not easy to do in any soceity. No quick or easy answer to Africa. :headbang:

I appologise if I wasn't clear. I'm NOT asking for people to start throwing money at the problem, I know full-well that that is not the answer.

The answer is reform. And unfortunately, reform takes a long time.

If people in China or India don't have sweatshops. Where are they going to work? Go back to the farms and earn 5X less?

fair trade factories or something that puts something into the actual economy eventually, is the theory....

Yeah New Olreans is a perfect example of what happens when we try to own nature...

Get off your high horse...All youre doing is introducing another form of imperalism on people under the guise of "aid"

It's better to be an imperialist and use humans as tools than to just watch them die

Freedom isn't everything.

And all the other anti-hurricane systems around the entire Gulf were evil, imperialistic attempts to save human life I guess?

its not a matter of per capita income. its not like there is a limited supply of "dollar bills" in the world and the developed countries are hogging them all.

if we had less, it would not give them more. it just doesnt work that way eh?

yeah we hog the worlds resources but the impact it has on underdeveloped countries is that when they are ready to exploit those resources they wont be able to because they will be gone or owned by some other country. we arent depriving people who dont have roads of the gas they need to drive their mercedes to the mall.

im certainly not against helping the poor of the world. but there are a couple of things that need to be considered

the most obvious one is the waste of aid money by the various governments. when the government doesnt care about the people, sending them aid through their governments isnt going to do them any good. (or enough good, its good to do what it takes to keep a government from starving its people to death through bad policies)

the other is more thorny to me. the drive to increase the per capita income of the poor nations of the world seems to be in fact a drive to "westernize" people. we know how WE got rich and its the only way we know to make THEM better off. but does the world need any more "america-lite"? isnt that going to increase their material success at the cost of their cultural identies?

The ancients called Earth, mother nature, with good reason. We are nurtured by the Earth we evolved on Earth and we survive from what is yielded by the Earth. We are all sons and daughters of the Earth. However there will come a time when the sons and daughters will outgrow their mother, and they will probably neglect their mother. In some ways it reminds me of that book by Silverstein, the Giving Tree, the Earth shades us from radiation, meteors, intense heat and the cold of space, it grantss food and shelter for our growth, and when it is old, it's own trunk shall be our foundations. One day the Earth might truly be like Coruscant in the Star Wars saga, one big artificial city, the Earth being nothing more but a foundation. Well, I don't know where I'm going with this...

The point is, we have power over nature but we should not subdue nature. A hurricane comes we should in everyway prevent it from causing damage to all lives. When an asteroid is bound to hit the Earth we should try to divert its course to avoid a collision. You say it was God's plan to have us destroyed, then I ask you, is not our brain and our creativity part of God's plan? What if God wanted to us use our brains and create a plan to divert the asteroid? Remember our brains are also part of the big evolution, survival-of-the-fittest plan. God/evolution gave us these brains so we could use them to grow.

There is no doubt that our brain and our ingenuity have brought humans to better living standards. The 400$ scale is no way to mark their true living standards. Before industry and medicine, we as a species were barely making it at the 300 million mark, now we are at the 6 billion mark and going strong, talking about space colonies and Terraforming Mars! The poor population is decreasing and even the standard of living of the poor are of a much better standard than those of before.

Before we were hunter-gatherers, we eat and live in what we find. We find a natural cave, we live in it, we find some berries we eat it. When agriculture came by, we settled down and did it ourselves and in our own way. We built our own houses, decorated/designed them our own way to our own liking. Didn't like the heat or the coldness, we made air conditioning. We enjoyed fruits we figured out ways to make them sweeter, bigger, the seed smaller or even seedless! Grains became bigger and bigger, yielding more and more, crop rotation allowing more efficient use of land. What I think should happen is true globalization when all would have enough to eat in order to survive. We have more than enough food yielded from the Earth each year, however due to political and economical restrictions, first-worlders throw away their food in the trash rather than giving them to those who need that unfinished hamburger to make it to the next day.

There is nothing wrong with African culture, and I would dare say that no one on this board knows a thing about Afircan culture! Africa is a plentiful continent, good farming techniques and it could support its population easily. There are people inhabiting in the places in the world because it is possible to live there! Some might live an easier life(first-worlder mechanised farming) than others(Inuit fishing for food) but it is definately possible. the big problem is that the economic and political situations of today restricts that true globalisation when all human beings look out for one another. This gives an unequal chance at having an easy life. If we transplant a first-world nation , say the United States, to the middle of the Sahara with all its present population and economic force, it'll will do equally well. Heck, if we transplant the United States to Mars which doesn't even have oxygen, it would do equally well, probably eating better than a poor third-worlder. If an Inuit had better funds they could start fisheries, and bigger fishing boats rather than a fishing rod to support a family of four, they could do equally well as the first-world Americans. I believe in the saying "Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day; Teach a man how to fish, and he eats for the rest of his life." Therefore I find it necessary, rather than blindly fund and feed the third-worlders, one first-worlder should help them with better ways of sustaining an easier life (such as better irrigation systems, fishing boats, fisheries, mechanised farming equipments, better crop varieties...)

Lastly, a poster mentionned how we should see us as a species? Well, I think we are an awesome species. We are far from reaching our potential and we have created so much with our little carbon based bodies. You see virus, bacteria invading host cells, they are merely hunter-gatherers, they eat what they find, and if they can't find anything in their vicinity they die... You see dinosaurs claiming to be king over the other species , a natural disaster comes and they become extinct. Only us human, have the power of the Gods, we build our own shelters to our liking, make our own food to our liking, clothing, leisure, and if technological advances continue like this, one day we could make our own Earth to our liking, create genetic hybrids and have wings allowing us to fly or fins for us to swim. One day we may even be able to destroy and create galaxies with the flicker of a switch.

It makes me feel safe as a human, because through all the civil wars people wage on other people, all the propagandas and lies of individuals, corporations, or governments, when a disaster on a global scale comes, all will be united and we will find a solution.

So my fellow humans, live long and prosper, for we have a universe to conquer!