NationStates Jolt Archive

I know. Another one of those, "ME," topics. But I thought I'd share this with you:

I was originally a card-carrying Liberal. I'd agree with Liberals on everything. Through learning and debate, I've swung more to the right. And though I'm definitely not a Conservative and I'd always vote Democrats, I really cannot consider myself a 'Liberal.'

It's also because of different policies I support: no gun control, an abortion cap, flat, negative income tax, etc.

And the reason that I'm an independent is because, yes, Liberals are stupid.

First, let me establish that Conservatives are stupid too. They've got this persecution complex like Satan is always after them and they somehow think that if we all had guns, murder would end... And while I oppose gun control, I do so out of philosophical principle, not because I think it'll decrease crime (that's stupid). I could go on and on for hours about why Bush is a total dumbass, but with a 39% approval rating I don't think I have to.

But Liberals are also stupid. And here's why:
#1. They have a tendency to believe in Marxist economics.. No, contrary to what Conservatives say, they aren't Marxists, Communists, or Socialists, but the only knowledge they seem to have of economics is the Communist Manifesto. Liberals share Marx's hatred of the rich... How the poor must be protected, etc.. And they, ignorantly enough, think that there is no such thing as "too much," social welfare... They completely deny that the welfare trap even exists and believe in such silly things as the subsistence theory of wages and oil peak.

While most intellectuals and humanities graduates are liberals, most Economists are Conservative... Of course, Economists don't support the Republicans' policy of, "Cut taxes now, worrying about revenue later." But they somewhat lean in that direction... Liberals, however, usually are not well-versed in economics.

#2. Political-correctness.

Oh.. my.. fucking.. god... This is a big one. I really don't understand why people consider censorship a Conservative issue, because it isn't. Liberals support censorship also: For racism, sexism, etc. And it's a fucking witch-hunt.

Recently, at another forum with liberals, the word "niggardly," was censored because they said it was a racial slur. I laughed my ass off and explained the etymology.

Afterwards, the moderator said, "OK, I've hit the end of my patience. there are certain words that are unacceptable here on this forum. If you don't like those rules, please search for another place to post."

But... But.. OMFG. "Niggardly," is not a racial slur. It has no connection to the N-word at all. I feel ashamed that I once considered myself a Liberal, because of how ignorant these people are.

#3. "THE EVUL WHITE MAN."

I think minorities' rights should be protected as well, but I'm sick of hearing how the white man is keeping the black man down. For example, one person suggested that gangsta rap is white people pimping the black community. When I used examples of black gangsta rap producers, he said that vanity labels mean nothing (and all of them worked at vanity labels). When I used examples of Jewish music producers, who weren't working for vanity labels, he called them, "White Jews." Hahaha.

Then, I managed to come across a list of black supremacist songs which were released under major labels. I posted the list... And FINALLY, he was pwned.

Simply put: There are a lot of black supremacists, liberals support them and liberals [i]are[/i them.

#4. Lack of Criticism.

Recently, I made fun of the Reverend Jesse Jackson's comment about New Orleans looking "like a slave ship," BECAUSE HE HAS NEVER SEEN a slave ship! How the hell would he know?!!? I drew a comic. And the punchline was, "Hallelujah, praise God almighty... I have a photo. In my wallet."

And several Liberals I know were offended. But it's true. It made me realize Jesse Jackson is either an idiot or a demagogue. I think that the NAACP is doing good work, but that was an incredibly stupid comment to say.

When I try to criticize Liberals over this, even ones who share most of my beliefs, they get pissed.

Anyway.. That's all, for now.

*puts arm over your shoulder and initiates a walk around the block* Son, this is what life has tought me. Everyone is stupid. Reguardless of nationality, political affiliation, experience, and natural intelligence, everyone is a dumbass.

First of all, you can't make the generalization that all liberals are stupid. I know that's not what you mean, but that's what it looks like. (You also can't say all conservatives are stupid, but still.) Also, much of what you wrote looks a bit like trolling to me, although we should ask a mod's opinion. However, otherwise debate may open.

~The Concordance~

First of all, you can't make the generalization that all liberals are stupid. I know that's not what you mean, but that's what it looks like. (You also can't say all conservatives are stupid, but still.) Also, much of what you wrote looks a bit like trolling to me, although we should ask a mod's opinion. However, otherwise debate may open.

~The Concordance~
No, I can make the generalization. It isn't always true, but I can still make it and it can still be a general trend, in both cases.

No, I can make the generalization. It isn't always true, but I can still make it and it can still be a general trend, in both cases.
You can make the generalization, but it's trolling if you do, and against the rules.

Saying "Liberals are stupid" is like saying "Americans are murderers", or "Jews are gay", or "The mods are idiots". People have been banned for less.

Just warning you.
~A Friend

Generally, I find neither Conservatives nor Liberals to be generally stupid.

What I do find, however, is that the screaming fascists who show up on the news from both sides *are* stupid. They represent, however, a small minority of the entirety.

Saying "all Liberals are stupid" based on the actions of the few you've seen on TV or the Internet is like making the following statements:

1] All Muslims are terrorists because Osama bin Laden is a terrorist.
2] All Christians are murderous because Jim Jones was murderous.
3] All Independents are racist assholes because Pat Buchanon is a racist asshole.

So .... as a Liberal, you're calling me stupid. Since you're an Independent, then I call you a racist asshole.

Not so nice ... is it. Now apologise and go forth and sin no more.

No party is right all the time.

I'm sorry.

You were a "card-carrying Liberal" who "always voted Democrat" ..... but it's everyone else on the left who is stupid?




*Newsflash*

Outside of countries where there IS a political entity called the Liberal Party, if someone sold you a card so you could call yourself a liberal (small L, as it is not in and of itself a prper name), then they found a pretty gullible schmuck to mess with.....


Besides, in my opinion anyone who expects to be a "card carrying" ANYTHING has already abdicated their intellect in favour of conformity anyway. Put their need to belong ahead of their need to think.



And you are suprised that you found idiots on the left side of center? Gues what, you'll find them on the right and near the middle too.

Because, as Einstein once said, "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."

I'm independant because democrats and republicans are ignorant enough to let a party make decisions for them. I don't let loony libs or crazy cons tell me what to think. I can support gay rights, yet find nothing pre-roe v. wade to support late-term abortian aka killing something that can basicly survive outside womb. I can hate racism and the race card equally. If anything, it's welfare and Mr. Racecard that are keeping the African Americans down right now. Slavery and segregation ended a long time ago. The only thing keeping the blacks back are the blacks themselves, not the whites or the hispanics or the native americans. Liberals are morons. Conservatives are morons. Everyone's a moron. Yes, even me.

I'm independant because democrats and republicans are ignorant enough to let a party make decisions for them. I don't let loony libs or crazy cons tell me what to think. I can support gay rights, yet find nothing pre-roe v. wade to support late-term abortian aka killing something that can basicly survive outside womb. I can hate racism and the race card equally. If anything, it's welfare and Mr. Racecard that are keeping the African Americans down right now. Slavery and segregation ended a long time ago. The only thing keeping the blacks back are the blacks themselves, not the whites or the hispanics or the native americans. Liberals are morons. Conservatives are morons. Everyone's a moron. Yes, even me.
That's it. I'm reporting this thread.

I'm independant because democrats and republicans are ignorant enough to let a party make decisions for them. I don't let loony libs or crazy cons tell me what to think. I can support gay rights, yet find nothing pre-roe v. wade to support late-term abortian aka killing something that can basicly survive outside womb. I can hate racism and the race card equally. If anything, it's welfare and Mr. Racecard that are keeping the African Americans down right now. Slavery and segregation ended a long time ago. The only thing keeping the blacks back are the blacks themselves, not the whites or the hispanics or the native americans. Liberals are morons. Conservatives are morons. Everyone's a moron. Yes, even me.


I agreed with almost everything up to: The only thing keeping the blacks back are the blacks themselves,...

What is keeping blacks back (imho) is substandard schooling, the prevailing culture around the inner city and heathcare. Anyone who says that the public schools of the inner city are as good as the public schools of the suburbs has their heads in the sand. In addition many of the students at my school do not eat right (for instance skipping breakfast), are not controlled by their parrents, and have to prettend to be less smart than they are in order to remain popular. These are all problems of the prevailing culture in the inner cities and I have know idea what to do. Finally I know many students miss a lot of school and can't concentrate when they are there because ill and can't get decent medical attention. The first and third are fairly easy to fix, I have know idea what to do about the second one.

No party is right all the time.

I disagree. A pool party is right all the time.

I agreed with almost everything up to:

What is keeping blacks back (imho) is substandard schooling, the prevailing culture around the inner city and heathcare. Anyone who says that the public schools of the inner city are as good as the public schools of the suburbs has their heads in the sand. In addition many of the students at my school do not eat right (for instance skipping breakfast), are not controlled by their parrents, and have to prettend to be less smart than they are in order to remain popular. These are all problems of the prevailing culture in the inner cities and I have know idea what to do. Finally I know many students miss a lot of school and can't concentrate when they are there because ill and can't get decent medical attention. The first and third are fairly easy to fix, I have know idea what to do about the second one.

The not eating right, the parents not in control, the poor schools apply to all students equally.

But I am not so sure about the pretending to be stupid. As far as I know, only black people have put a stigma on knowledge, intelligence, proper use of language, so that they must pretend to be stupid in order to remain popular or avoid being beaten up.

As a black father of a black daughter, I avoid the dummy culture. But my child had to go through it in high school. Unfortunately, being popular was her chief desire, and she did not begin to reach her potential until she was out of school. :gundge:

Do you know why you think both Liberals and conservatives are stupid? Because you've taken what you think are the most idiotic ideas from who you think are the most idiotic people.

If I say I'm a liberal, and another person says they are too - does that mean we'll agree on everything? That we'll be totally consistent? Or perhaps we will agree but I'll have an idiotic "George Bush is responsible for everything bad including flu and the tsunami" reason for my view and the other person will have a very reasonable argument based on sensible and responsible management.

You can't take two seperate parts of an argument from two seperate people and try and point out inconsistincies, claiming stupidity or hypocracy.

Well I'm bored so I'll respond.

"I know. Another one of those, "ME," topics. But I thought I'd share this with you:

I was originally a card-carrying Liberal. I'd agree with Liberals on everything. Through learning and debate, I've swung more to the right. And though I'm definitely not a Conservative and I'd always vote Democrats, I really cannot consider myself a 'Liberal.'

It's also because of different policies I support: no gun control, an abortion cap, flat, negative income tax, etc.

And the reason that I'm an independent is because, yes, Liberals are stupid."

And here is where we disagree. As a "liberal," well okay more accurately a Democratic Socialist, I don't think of myself as stupid. I tend, however, to believe that many elements of humanity, regardless of political affiliation, are painfully stupid... but again I won't say it's Liberals/conservatives/Tories/Stalinists/whatever, because there are stupid people everywhere.

"First, let me establish that Conservatives are stupid too. They've got this persecution complex like Satan is always after them and they somehow think that if we all had guns, murder would end... And while I oppose gun control, I do so out of philosophical principle, not because I think it'll decrease crime (that's stupid). I could go on and on for hours about why Bush is a total dumbass, but with a 39% approval rating I don't think I have to."

Well at least you cover your bases. I like that.

"But Liberals are also stupid. And here's why:
#1. They have a tendency to believe in Marxist economics.. No, contrary to what Conservatives say, they aren't Marxists, Communists, or Socialists, but the only knowledge they seem to have of economics is the Communist Manifesto. Liberals share Marx's hatred of the rich... How the poor must be protected, etc.. And they, ignorantly enough, think that there is no such thing as "too much," social welfare... They completely deny that the welfare trap even exists and believe in such silly things as the subsistence theory of wages and oil peak."

I do believe in Marxist economics, to an extent. I believe that the utopian economic system, or as close as humanity will ever come, is a sane, intelligent, reasoned blend of Socialism and Capitalism. Emphasis on sane, intelligent and reasoned. I don't hate most rich people, honestly. There are a few, who I do hate simply because they are soooo decadent or soooo evil that I can't help myself... but I'm not here to name names. I simply believe in Social Responsibility, that is that people have a duty to their fellow man which increases as their ability to aid increases; which is not to say we all have to give everything we own to the poor, but that we do have some duty to each other as human beings, and the amount positively correlates with one's personal resources.
I do also believe in too much Welfare, but I am of the opinion that all human beings regardless of anything have a fundamental right to the most basic of needs, hence I do support comprehensive welfare. But too much welfare is in general a bad thing. As I'm not an economist by a long shot, I can't respond to the subsistence theory of wages. As to the oil peak, that's not stupid. As far as I am concerned, it is very likely, and something to be quite worried about. Check this out if you will - www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net

"While most intellectuals and humanities graduates are liberals, most Economists are Conservative... Of course, Economists don't support the Republicans' policy of, "Cut taxes now, worrying about revenue later." But they somewhat lean in that direction... Liberals, however, usually are not well-versed in economics."

I'll give you that. But I concern myself less with the operations of the economic system than its effects. I will take any system that prevents the suffering of people based on thier economic status, and prevents an oligarchy by wealth... which sounds an aweful lot like Socialism ;) But again, I realize the sheer growth ability of a free market system cannot be ignored, which is why I came to the conclusion that a mix is best.

"#2. Political-correctness.

Oh.. my.. fucking.. god... This is a big one. I really don't understand why people consider censorship a Conservative issue, because it isn't. Liberals support censorship also: For racism, sexism, etc. And it's a fucking witch-hunt.

Recently, at another forum with liberals, the word "niggardly," was censored because they said it was a racial slur. I laughed my ass off and explained the etymology.

Afterwards, the moderator said, "OK, I've hit the end of my patience. there are certain words that are unacceptable here on this forum. If you don't like those rules, please search for another place to post."

But... But.. OMFG. "Niggardly," is not a racial slur. It has no connection to the N-word at all. I feel ashamed that I once considered myself a Liberal, because of how ignorant these people are."

Certain political correctedness is okay, like not using intentionally hurtful terms that will only cause tempers to flare. Like the word "******." But some of it is just retarded, like the term "African American," which is a misnomer. If a white guy from Johannesburg naturalized to the US, he would by definition be African American. Plus, what do you call black people in other countries? That chap in England, is not African-American or Anglo-African or any other stupid name, he's black.

"#3. "THE EVUL WHITE MAN."

I think minorities' rights should be protected as well, but I'm sick of hearing how the white man is keeping the black man down. For example, one person suggested that gangsta rap is white people pimping the black community. When I used examples of black gangsta rap producers, he said that vanity labels mean nothing (and all of them worked at vanity labels). When I used examples of Jewish music producers, who weren't working for vanity labels, he called them, "White Jews." Hahaha.

Then, I managed to come across a list of black supremacist songs which were released under major labels. I posted the list... And FINALLY, he was pwned.

Simply put: There are a lot of black supremacists, liberals support them and liberals [i]are[/i them."

Racism is still a big problem in this country, I'm sorry to say. Honestly, I had the same view as you only a year ago. Then I read a book called "Blood Done Sign My Name" by Timothy Tyson, and I heard him speak... and I realized that we are way too keen to sweep the issues that were on the surface just 20 or 30 years ago under the rug and say "okay it's over," because it's not. There are still KKK, there is still discrimination, there is still lingering aspects of White supremacy in everyone's minds. There is often voluntary segregation among the racial communities, and there is little dialogue among ordinary people. You can't even touch race in discussions, and if you do somehow manage to get there, whites are always looking to prove themselves not a racist, thus hampering honest discussion. Blacks are still economically disadvantaged in America compared to white people, and they still make up the vast majority of our prison population. Why? Blacks are homo sapiens sapiens just like whites and latinos and asians, it's not like they have reduced capacities, so what exactly explains this? Perhaps it's not like there's an evil cabal of really white guys sitting around, plotting to keep the black man down, but I submit that the root cause is still the historical legacy of inhuman oppression. Oh but I don't support black supremacists anymore than white supremacists, and I don't know many liberals who do.

"#4. Lack of Criticism.

Recently, I made fun of the Reverend Jesse Jackson's comment about New Orleans looking "like a slave ship," BECAUSE HE HAS NEVER SEEN a slave ship! How the hell would he know?!!? I drew a comic. And the punchline was, "Hallelujah, praise God almighty... I have a photo. In my wallet."

And several Liberals I know were offended. But it's true. It made me realize Jesse Jackson is either an idiot or a demagogue. I think that the NAACP is doing good work, but that was an incredibly stupid comment to say.

When I try to criticize Liberals over this, even ones who share most of my beliefs, they get pissed."

Lack of criticism? Huh? Who isn't being critizied these days? John Kerry was ripped to shreds over his Vietnam experience, Howard "Screamin" Dean was raked over the coals for his off the collar comments about Republicans, the Democratic party is often accused of being weak and a joke, and nobody even pays attention to Ralph Nader, my favorite Liberal. When either conservatives or liberals fuck up, there is almost always someone there to call them on it(though the Republicans have the advantage, as people are less likely to criticise a President in a "time of war," than the members of the party that is out of power). And if a Liberal is being stupid, I won't hesitate to bitch at them, because they're not helping anything.

As to Jesse Jackson, though I happen to share some of his views(I said some... just some), I don't like the man personally. He doesn't have a race card up his sleeve, he's got a whole freaking deck of race cards up his sleeve, and some backups in his pantlegs. Though I think race is still a problem, I don't think Jesse Jackson is really helping out here. On the slave ship thing... I've never seen the Brandenburg gate in person. Never. But if someone started building one in my backyard, I'd recognize it from descriptions I've gotten over the years from books and people who have actually seen it. Moral : just because you haven't seen something personally doesn't mean you can't make a valid comparison.

"Anyway.. That's all, for now.[/QUOTE]"

Well that concludes one liberal's thoughts on the thoughts of another liberal.

They're both stupid. You can't run a government from the left or from the right. You have to run it from the centre. Being overly conservative is stupid. Being too liberal is stupid.

I don't understand why we have these arguments when there should be a mid-way mark.Why isn't there?

I am neither a liberal or a conservative, but an ex card carrying Marxist, and let me tell you, if you believe the people in your country fallaciously called "liberals" are in any way influenced by Marx you either misunderstand Marx or them.

Plus, Marx's economics feature in "Das Kapital", not The Manifesto. Plus, capitalists such as George Soros have proclaimed Capital to be the primary source to study to understand how economies work, and said that Marx is the most prescient and perceptive student of capitalism ever. Your idea of economists being "conservative" also misses out the whole issue of Keynes and his followers, who, up until the right wing backlash in the 70s, were the dominant force in economics and were left wing.

Marx doesn't hate the rich. Marx hates the system that produces the rich.

Marx has little or no affect on the vast majority of American thought. The idea that his worldview has had any impact on any of you is slightly deflated by the fact that not one of your major political parties has taken a blind bit of notice of what he's said, at least since the Wobblies of the 20s and 30s.

Some other points:-

Agreed about "Niggardly", but then, how many people know it comes from the Old Norse "hnøggr", ie "stingy"? I doubt your public school system has many teachers of etymology. I know mine never did. That so, you can understand that people with perhaps a lower level of education think it's somehow connected to a word it sounds very similar to.

You don't HAVE welfare in the United States, it's nothing compared to the Social Security practiced in affluent European democracies, you in comparison have a band aid over a gaping wound. If people can get dependent on that niggardly (hurr, look, i used it) version of welfare, i admire their dedication to never working a day in their life. It must take some effort to do so on such subsistence level funding.

On the issue of "PC", you miss the point, but then, most of the USA and much of the rest of the world missed the point, the "liberals" included. PC was about not using certain words to demean a culture or group of beings, it was about making sure the power of language wasn't misused. It wasn't about being thought police. Think how you want. Just, if you are using government money, and working for the mass of the people, it's not allowed to use racial epiphets or sexual epiphets because amongst the people you work for are members of that very same group you demonise. The "liberals" of the USA took a beautiful, egalitarian ideal and turned it into another level of control by the corporate state.

Finally, if you don't realise Gangsta Rap is part of the problem for black people, you aren't studying it well enough. The point is, a certain amount of people have made themselves rich and famous perpetuating a stereotype about their own culture (just as actors playing the Uncle Tom figure did generations before). This stereotype has then been pumped into the homes OF that culture. With the end result that large portions of that culture now either believe it to be their identity, or find it easier to play up to that conception than correct mistakes. Similar things have happened with all "minorities" - for example, homosexuality - Queer Eye for a Straight Guy anyone? Large masses of gay and straight people now believe that the bitchy fashion obsessed queen stereotype is an archetype. It's not. As long as the media remains in the hands of an exploitative few, such exploitative imagery will hamper any real progress.

And Jessie Jackson is uniquely American. Nuff said.

I am more smarter than most people at politics.

I am not a conservative because...

*Sets up straw man of conservatives and knocks it down...smirking*

...but I am also not liberal because...

*Sets up straw man of liberals and knowns it down...while wanking*

Therefore I know more about politics than people.

I R Winner?

Sound about right?

American commies=American liberals in the same sense that sparrows=birds. Not all birds are sparrows, but sparrows aren't going to be fishes or insects.

I was originally a card-carrying Liberal. I'd agree with Liberals on everything. Through learning and debate, I've swung more to the right. And though I'm definitely not a Conservative and I'd always vote Democrats, I really cannot consider myself a 'Liberal.'


Well good, cuz the Democrats are about as liberal as the USSR communist party.


It's also because of different policies I support: no gun control, an abortion cap, flat, negative income tax, etc.

No gun control? Hey, you're a liberal! Welcome to the club.



Recently, at another forum with liberals, the word "niggardly," was censored because they said it was a racial slur. I laughed my ass off and explained the etymology.

Afterwards, the moderator said, "OK, I've hit the end of my patience. there are certain words that are unacceptable here on this forum. If you don't like those rules, please search for another place to post."

But... But.. OMFG. "Niggardly," is not a racial slur. It has no connection to the N-word at all. I feel ashamed that I once considered myself a Liberal, because of how ignorant these people are.

LOL. But you can't blame anyone who qualifies as liberal for those retards. What forum was it? I want to go there and start shit. :D


Simply put: There are a lot of black supremacists, liberals support them and liberals [i]are[/i them.

You're just saying that because you are jealous of the black man's suave and sexy nature! ;)


When I try to criticize Liberals over this, even ones who share most of my beliefs, they get pissed.


I'm not pissed, but when I see the word "liberal" I think "freedom." So when people associate liberalism with non-liberal policies (like, gun control) it irks. I kinda wish we could all get away from the "liberal" and "conservative" labels, especially in this country where its naively assumed they are synonymous with democrat and republican.

I agreed with almost everything up to:

What is keeping blacks back (imho) is substandard schooling, the prevailing culture around the inner city and heathcare. -snip-
Finally I know many students miss a lot of school and can't concentrate when they are there because ill and can't get decent medical attention. The first and third are fairly easy to fix, I have know idea what to do about the second one.

And in the USA, anyone can get decent medical attention at emergency rooms and clinics across the land.

Oh, yeah, the schools in suburbs and inner cities are equally poor in the USA as well.

They seem to exist to remove any practical, real, helpful knowledge from students' minds, and ensure that they are illiterate when they graduate after 12 years of schooling. Every traditional method of teaching that actually worked has been thrown out in favor of colored blocks used to teach math in 7th grade, and pseudo-esteem building via giving falsely elevated grades. Some American schools have 30 valedictorians, because we don't want anyone to feel bad or left out.

I know about the teaching stuff cause my mom was a teacher until she retired, and she began in New Jersey and finished in California. And she did the best she could in spite of the administration.

I am Stupid, because Independants are Liberal.

By and large, anyone running as an independent candidate is seeking to break bipartian politics and encouraging a multi-party democracy. That makes them Liberal, doesn't it?

So why run at all as a Conservative Independant? It doesn't make sense to me. But then again, I'm stupid.

Kroisistan, that was a very intelligent and well thought-out response. From my experience, you are, unfortunately, the minority. Out of curiousity, are you in Britain?

Because I've had a strong suspicion for quite some time that America is the most extremist government there is, on both sides... And that "political correctness," is almost non-existant outside of here.

This thread was started off as flamebait, and will be closed. It paves the way for insults to everyone, by calling everybody idiots/morons/whatever. Apologies to those who have a relevant discussion going on, you'll have to start a new thread for your specific debate/discussion, just as long as it isn't similar to the first post of this thread and it isn't breaking any sort of the rules of NS.