NationStates Jolt Archive


Nukes on terrorists

Fosgate
11-09-2005, 06:31
http://www.optonline.net/News/Article/Feeds?CID=type%3Dxml%26channel%3D32%26article%3D15781438

U.S. Envisions Using Nukes on Terrorists
Sat Sep 10, 11:50 PM


WASHINGTON - A Pentagon planning document being updated to reflect the doctrine of pre-emption declared by President Bush in 2002 envisions the use of nuclear weapons to deter terrorists from using weapons of mass destruction against the United States or its allies.

The "Doctrine for Joint Nuclear Operations," which was last updated 10 years ago, makes clear that "the decision to employ nuclear weapons at any level requires explicit orders from the president."

But it says that in a changing environment "terrorists or regional states armed with WMD will likely test U.S. security commitments to its allies and friends."

"In response, the U.S. needs a range of capabilities to assure friend and foe alike of its resolve," says the 69-page document dated March 15 and posted on a Pentagon web site.

The draft is still being circulated among the various services, field commanders, Pentagon lawyers and Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld's office.

Its existence was initially reported by The Washington Post in Sunday editions.

"A broader array of capability is needed to dissuade states from undertaking ... courses of action that would threaten U.S. and allied security," the draft says. "U.S. forces must pose a credible deterrent to potential adversaries who have access to modern military technology, including WMD and the means to deliver them."

It says "deterrence of potential adversary WMD use requires the potential adversary leadership to believe the United States has both the ability and will to pre-empt or retaliate promptly with responses that are credible and effective."

It says "this will be particularly difficult with nonstate (non-government) actors who employ or attempt to gain use of WMD. Here, deterrence may be directed at states that support their efforts as well as the terrorist organization itself.

"However, the continuing proliferation of WMD along with the means to deliver them increases the probability that someday a state/nonstate actor nation/terrorist may, through miscaluation or by deliberate choice, use those weapons. In such cases, deterrence, even based on the threat of massive destruction, may fail and the United States must be prepared to use nuclear weapons if necessary."

It notes that U.S. policy has always been purposely vague with regard to when the United States would use nuclear weapons and that it has never vowed not to be the first to use them in a conflict.

One scenario for a possible nuclear pre-emptive strike in the draft would be in the case of an "imminent attack from adversary biological weapons that only effects from nuclear weapons can safely destroy."

The Bush administration is continuing to push for development of an earth-penetrating nuclear warhead, but has yet to obtain congressional approval.

However, the Senate voted in July to revive the "bunker-buster" program that Congress last year decided to kill.

Administration officials have maintained that the U.S. needs to try to develop a nuclear warhead that would be capable of destroying deeply buried targets including bunkers tunneled into solid rock.

But opponents said that its benefits are questionable and that such a warhead would cause extensive radiation fallout above ground killing thousands of people. And they say it may make it easier for a future president to decide to use the nuclear option instead of a conventional weapon.

The Senate voted 53-43 to include $4 million for research into the feasibility of a bunker-buster nuclear warhead. Earlier this year, the House refused to provide the money, so a final decision will have to be worked out between the two chambers.

Is it me, or is this a BAD sign?
The Black Forrest
11-09-2005, 06:34
Meh.

I think it's more of message with a threat.

Set of a dirty bomb or a bio weapon and we will use this on you once we find where you are hiding.

Pre-emptive action is one thing. A pre-emptive nuke strike? Rather hard sale to the rest of the world.
Skyfork
11-09-2005, 06:37
Of course it is, with great power comes great responsibility. Our president is not responsible. Rather, he seems coldy indifferent to the consequences of his actions. A nuke is not a fire-and-forget weapon, which it looks like they're trying to make it into.
Mind Sickness
11-09-2005, 06:54
This is more than just a bad sign, it's a fucking guarantee that things are only going to get worse in the future.

This is just another step toward a China vs U.S.A. cold war. China has already begun to beef up their military, and they don't need another reason to try and keep up with the U.S. with an old-fashioned arms race.
As much as the Chinese military is still kid's toys compared to the U.S, the emerging economy boom will help to rectify that somewhat.
Fosgate
11-09-2005, 07:01
Of course it is, with great power comes great responsibility. Our president is not responsible. Rather, he seems coldy indifferent to the consequences of his actions. A nuke is not a fire-and-forget weapon, which it looks like they're trying to make it into.

Well I can just it now.

"US Nukes Suspected Taliban Hideout"
Deeeelo
11-09-2005, 07:44
As long as there have been nuclear weapons there has been the posibility of using them. I don't see the difference in using them against variuos adversaries. What is outrageous about considering the use of nuclear weapond against terrorists?
Non Aligned States
11-09-2005, 07:56
As long as there have been nuclear weapons there has been the posibility of using them. I don't see the difference in using them against variuos adversaries. What is outrageous about considering the use of nuclear weapond against terrorists?

Because it would be like dropping a cluster bomb in Washington DC because there was a thug with a gun.

I don't think the police have cluster bombs...yet.
Shingogogol
11-09-2005, 08:16
Nukes are for intimidation and "forward projection" (along with Son of Star Wars waste of money) - of offensive forces.
US has got over 700 known or admitted bases in over 130 different countries.
(according to the book "Sorrows of Empire")

Agree with the US or else we will begin a PR demonization campaign against you
and in a couple years take you out.
"War Made Easy: How Presidents and Pundits Keep Spinning Us to Death"
http://www.warmadeeasy.com/


Hegemone is the P.C. way of putting it.
Empire (in which there is no, and never was any honor) is a bit more truthful.


if we are "leaders", not just dicktators,
we must "lead" the way and disarm our nukes - first
Deeeelo
11-09-2005, 08:19
Because it would be like dropping a cluster bomb in Washington DC because there was a thug with a gun.

I don't think the police have cluster bombs...yet.
Why do you assume that the use of nuclear weapons would be that indiscrimininate? The strategy and weapons employed in any battle depend on the conditions.
Non Aligned States
11-09-2005, 09:31
Why do you assume that the use of nuclear weapons would be that indiscrimininate? The strategy and weapons employed in any battle depend on the conditions.

Because of the nature of nuclear weapons makes them indiscriminate. Even nuclear bunker busters would result in a radioactive fallout that would effect hundreds if not thousands of people not just immediately but the near future as well.

If you effect water tables, it is possible that you will end up poisoning generations of victims with radiation with death tolls and mutations that may number in the millions.

So yes, it is exactly like a cluster bomb in a busy street. You will effect far far more people than you want. Unless your goal was to poison the entire region and all within it of course, not to mention whoever gets caught in the radioactive clouds via trade winds.
The Borlean Dynasty
11-09-2005, 11:09
It's a sad reality that eventually Nuclear weapons will be used again. However, I do not believe it will be the United States that uses them next.
E Blackadder
11-09-2005, 11:10
I do not beleive that nuclear weaponry should be used against terrorists, hydrogen bombs however i see no problem in using :D :cool: :mp5:
SimNewtonia
11-09-2005, 11:49
http://www.optonline.net/News/Article/Feeds?CID=type%3Dxml%26channel%3D32%26article%3D15781438



Is it me, or is this a BAD sign?

Can anyone say "World War III"?
Non Aligned States
11-09-2005, 12:45
I do not beleive that nuclear weaponry should be used against terrorists, hydrogen bombs however i see no problem in using :D :cool: :mp5:

???

Hydrogen bombs are fusion weapons. The underlying operation is nuclear fusion where a fission bomb is detonated to produce the neccessary heat and temperature to fuse hydrogen atoms together, thus creating the fusion blast.

You'd still get lots of radiation and a fireball measured in megatons.

And it's still a nuclear weapon. Thermonuclear in this case.
Psychotic Mongooses
11-09-2005, 12:58
???

Hydrogen bombs are fusion weapons. The underlying operation is nuclear fusion where a fission bomb is detonated to produce the neccessary heat and temperature to fuse hydrogen atoms together, thus creating the fusion blast.

You'd still get lots of radiation and a fireball measured in megatons.

And it's still a nuclear weapon. Thermonuclear in this case.

He was taking the piss.
Non Aligned States
11-09-2005, 13:06
He was taking the piss.

Given some of the ignorance I've seen here, you never know. Remember the guy who recommended carpet bombing terrorists without bothering to find out who they were and where they were living and all that?

Besides, given the level of people talking about "bad intelligence" that was used to invade Iraq, can you guess how many radioactive craters will be done followed by "Oops, we were wrong" and even more bombing? Pre-emptive war is bad already. Pre-emptive nuclear strikes?

Whoever dreamt up this stupid idea obviously isn't aware of the fact that other people have nuclear weapons too. And that between the lot of them, they can turn the planet into a dustball.