NationStates Jolt Archive

The "People's" Democracy of Kampuchea- 1.7 million dead
The "People's" Republic of China- Invasion of Tibet and the Cultural Revolution

what the hell are you talking about?

Meh :confused:

what the hell are you talking about?

The fact that all of the "People's Republics" or anything else are nothing more than totalitarian shams that have directly or indirectly murdered millions of people.

The fact that all of the "People's Republics" or anything else are nothing more than totalitarian shams that have directly or indirectly murdered millions of people.

You can say that about a lot of leaderships, and not just "people's" leaderships...like the United States and their mass murders of Japanese Civilians, Vietnamese Civilians, Korean Civilians, etc., plus the detainment of Japanese-Americans (U.S. Citizens mind you) that were put in Concentration Camps (all of their posetions, I mean all [house, everything] was taken, and they weren't compensated until the Clinton administration...)

Actually, currently, China isn't a bad place to live right about now.

You can say that about a lot of leaderships, and not just "people's" leaderships...like the United States and their mass murders of Japanese Civilians, Vietnamese Civilians, Korean Civilians, etc., plus the detainment of Japanese-Americans (U.S. Citizens mind you) that were put in Concentration Camps (all of their posetions, I mean all [house, everything] was taken, and they weren't compensated until the Clinton administration...)
And all done by Democrats…

You know, I posted this because I noticed an odd coincidence. I am not saying that other countries have not done bad things, it's just that I noticed the Irony. At least the Nazi's acknowledged that they were a police state. But really, if you say the "People's" something, I'm thinking about an egalitarian society, which is a liberal utopia. While these governments were on the left, they were not "liberal". In fact, I have noticed that there is really very little similarity between the Liberals of the Western World, and the Left-Wingers of the East, at least on cultural issues.

And all done by Democrats…

Who are now apart of the Republican party..... :rolleyes:

Who are now apart of the Republican party..... :rolleyes:
Clinton’s in the Republican party? :confused:

I was making a simple observation about all mentioned events.

what he means is the democrat party of old evolved into the modern republican party and the republican party of old turned into the modern democratic party

what he means is the democrat party of old evolved into the modern republican party and the republican party of old turned into the modern democratic party

Yep

You know, I posted this because I noticed an odd coincidence. I am not saying that other countries have not done bad things, it's just that I noticed the Irony. At least the Nazi's acknowledged that they were a police state. But really, if you say the "People's" something, I'm thinking about an egalitarian society, which is a liberal utopia. While these governments were on the left, they were not "liberal". In fact, I have noticed that there is really very little similarity between the Liberals of the Western World, and the Left-Wingers of the East, at least on cultural issues.


This must be very confusing for those who are stuck with a two party system.

Yep
I hope you aren’t a Democrat (or anyone else) trying to vilify Republicans by blaming those sad occurrences on them. Individuals commit acts, not ideas. I just thought it odd that democrats were president when all those things occurred. Except for part of Vietnam. That was Nixon, but he was a communist. *Wishes I could go back in time and call Nixon a communist*

You can say that about a lot of leaderships, and not just "people's" leaderships...like the United States and their mass murders of Japanese Civilians, Vietnamese Civilians, Korean Civilians, etc., plus the detainment of Japanese-Americans (U.S. Citizens mind you) that were put in Concentration Camps (all of their posetions, I mean all [house, everything] was taken, and they weren't compensated until the Clinton administration...)

Actually, currently, China isn't a bad place to live right about now.

Erm, where the hell was our "mass murder" of Japanese, Vietnamese and Koreans? I know our boys in Vietnam weren't exactly repectuful of the Vietnamese, and there was the occasional accidental napalm strike (hell, we killed our own men with that), but nowhere was there any "mass murder" of anyone. (Don't even mention the atomic bomb, that was very well justified.)

As for the Japanese, there were reports of Japanese weapon smuggling and other suspicious activity in Central America. After the detainment (concentration camp is something totally different), all suspicious activity ceased. Coincedence?

But, I must admit I never heard of the confiscation of all property. I think it's a hoax.

I hope you aren’t a Democrat (or anyone else) trying to vilify Republicans by blaming those sad occurrences on them. Individuals commit acts, not ideas. I just thought it odd that democrats were president when all those things occurred. Except for part of Vietnam. That was Nixon, but he was a communist. *Wishes I could go back in time and call Nixon a communist*

1. I am a republican so no I'm not trying to vilify them for the sake of it. It was more of a response to your witty and intellegent done under democrats post.
2. Though individuals do the deed the ideas themselves influence them. Stalin, Pol Pot, Mussolini though not incredibly good people who did horrible things were motivated by ideas.

Erm, where the hell was our "mass murder" of Japanese, Vietnamese and Koreans? I know our boys in Vietnam weren't exactly repectuful of the Vietnamese, and there was the occasional accidental napalm strike (hell, we killed our own men with that), but nowhere was there any "mass murder" of anyone. (Don't even mention the atomic bomb, that was very well justified.)
And nowhere was there any "mass murder" of anyone (Don't Even mention Nanking, that was very well justified, but it seems that for the purpose of the conversation

As for the Japanese, there were reports of Japanese weapon smuggling and other suspicious activity in Central America. After the detainment (concentration camp is something totally different), all suspicious activity ceased. Coincedence?
Really, its been 60 years since then. We've uncovered Japanese Atomic Submarine Projects, Bubonic Plague Factories and in germany plans for sub-orbital bombers, wingless craft, all wing craft, attack helecopters, 100 ton tanks, plans to invade gibraltar, plans to invade Iran, Plans to invade china but we still haven't found a damn peice of evidence of a Japanese spy network in central america. As for the genius plan of rounding up all the Japanese, you do realise the Japanese informants that did exist claimed to be chinese to avoid suspicion. Oh, and then theres the most famous Japanese Spy, G.S. Lyushkov. But you could definately spot him by his oriental features (Pale skin and curley hair) as easily as his obviously Nipponese name.
http://www.vestnik.com/issues/1999/0817/images/lyushkov.jpg

But, I must admit I never heard of the confiscation of all property. I think it's a hoax.[/QUOTE]

1. I am a republican so no I'm not trying to vilify them for the sake of it. It was more of a response to your witty and intellegent done under democrats post.
There are so many leftists on NS, I just assume all posters I don’t know are, at this point.
2. Though individuals do the deed the ideas themselves influence them. Stalin, Pol Pot, Mussolini though not incredibly good people who did horrible things were motivated by ideas.
A communist would argue that Stalin was not a “real” communist, just as a Christian would argue that those who fire-bomb abortion clinics are not “real” Christians. The problem with blaming an idea, is that anyone can claim to support that idea.

@ person with deleted post. I know plenty about communism.
It was a joke at the expense of a dead man, his price controls and friendly relations with the Chinese.
<------Knows plenty about communism and has no qualms about insulting the dead.

There are so many leftists on NS, I just assume all posters I don’t know are, at this point.
I'm pretty moderate. I

A communist would argue that Stalin was not a “real” communist, just as a Christian would argue that those who fire-bomb abortion clinics are not “real” Christians. The problem with blaming an idea, is that anyone can claim to support that idea.
And I would argue that is just a way to try to deflect blame from their ideals. Lets role with the idea that Stalin was using the idea of communism to further his own goals. He was still using the idea wheter or not he truely believed in it, only he was using it in a way to benefit himself. The problem with saying they aren't real christians or communists is that even if they didn't overall fit the description they still used the ideas for a basis of their beliefs and warped them. Ideas can be very dangerous things if misused or blindly followed.

@ person with deleted post. I know plenty about communism.
It was a joke at the expense of a dead man, his price controls and friendly relations with the Chinese.
<------Knows plenty about communism and has no qualms about insulting the dead.
I think everyone here can say they aren't Nixon's #1 fan.

Actually, currently, China isn't a bad place to live right about now.

Indeed, my aunt and uncle just got back. (aunt is Chinese)

"Made in China" still means it's crap, but its getting up to McDonalds' quality crap over there.

And its not like Tibet was such a fantastic place to be before China invaded it. 90% of the wealth in the country belonged to the religious elite before the communists came. At least there is some development there now.

You know, I posted this because I noticed an odd coincidence. I am not saying that other countries have not done bad things, it's just that I noticed the Irony. At least the Nazi's acknowledged that they were a police state. But really, if you say the "People's" something, I'm thinking about an egalitarian society, which is a liberal utopia. While these governments were on the left, they were not "liberal". In fact, I have noticed that there is really very little similarity between the Liberals of the Western World, and the Left-Wingers of the East, at least on cultural issues.

So, what your saying is that the Communist states of Asia, while claiming to be of the people, for the people and by the people, are on the contrary totally against Communism? Perhaps another irony albeit more sinister is the West and the "Free World". Countries across North America and Europe that claim to be Democratic, that uphold Freedom, Equality and Justice. Places where your vote counts and where there are nice Malls to shop at.

Democracy is dead. Any system based upon an idea that anyone who is lucky enough to be born within a state's territory and luckier still to survive til he or she is old enough to cast a vote is not a good system of Government, thats how I feel.

I admit no system is perfect, for no one idea can solve every problem on Earth. But something has to be workable atleast.

Democracy means giving up our voice to someone who is just going to fuck us over no matter what. We are Cattle, we are Arms and Legs. We should count ourselves lucky that we get THE chance to CHOOSE our rulers. Freedom is an illusion. We should praise the fucking Lord above that we can say what we want, but if a Tree falls in a Forest and nobodies around to hear it, does it make a sound?

Likewise if all the instruments of Mass Media are owned by a few private individuals with vested interests, how am I to make heard my own opinion? I have the right to go to Tea at the Ritz...as long as I have the money too. I am neither Right nor Left. I am trying to be a Realist. It doesnt matter who dropped the first Atomic bomb nor who slaughtered who trying to recapture the Holy Lands, it's US. Humans. We are pure fucking evil.

You cannot Hope.

Erm, where the hell was our "mass murder" of Japanese, Vietnamese and Koreans? I know our boys in Vietnam weren't exactly repectuful of the Vietnamese, and there was the occasional accidental napalm strike (hell, we killed our own men with that), but nowhere was there any "mass murder" of anyone. (Don't even mention the atomic bomb, that was very well justified.)

As for the Japanese, there were reports of Japanese weapon smuggling and other suspicious activity in Central America. After the detainment (concentration camp is something totally different), all suspicious activity ceased. Coincedence?

But, I must admit I never heard of the confiscation of all property. I think it's a hoax.

Okay, I'm going to do the best I can with the 'sound bite' reaction...because something of this magnitude and complicity almost requires a book to describe it.

First of all, before I go to Japan or Korea, I would like to point something out that you said about Vietnam...

"The occasional napalm bomb"!?? You have got to be f**king kidding me. Millions of innocent civilians were killed off by the American forces. And this is not just firebombs and poisonous defoliants, but this is literally machine-gunning children, women, and innocent Vietnamese men. Of coarse a lot were to quote "potential Vietcong", but also a lot were just shot or bombed, knowing they were just civilians. Even McNamara, now openly says this. And to this day, children are continuing to be born with deformities because of Agent Orange. Many died years after the Vietnam War because of our laying of poison.

As for Japan, it's a wide misconception that the dropping of the A-bomb on Japanese Cities caused the most damage to Japan's cities. I can understand where you're coming from when attempting the justify the A-Bombings of Nagasaki and Hiroshima...ironically seeing as the Japanese planned to nuke us just a week later with their submersible aircraft carrier. However, there were many instances of huge destruction of Japanese cities, with the conventional bombings, rather than the A-Bombs (before the A-Bomb was developed, mind you). Great percentages of Japanese Cities were destroyed. And this would be the bombing of ordinary civilians (regular housing neighborhoods, etc.), not just the factories that fueled the Japanese War machine. McNamera's documentary puts this issue into perspective, and really allows you to see the destruction of innocents that was committed by the United States (they give proportions by showing what percentages of U.S. cities would have been destroyed if the Japanese launched the same kind of bombing campaign as the U.S. did, etc.). A lot of history classes portray the Nazis and the Japanese as the "genociding bad guys" whilst the United States and friends were the "humane good guys". Both sides were guilty of genocide and war crimes; whoever lost the Second World War would be put on war crimes trials. Some more guilty than others, but in the end, all guilty regardless.

In Korea, there were separate cases of massacres. There have been cases of U.S. soldiers gunning down and air boming Korean (South and North) Civilians. This has not only been confirmed by surviving Korean civilians, but U.S. veterans that witnessed and/or took place in the events. And I'm not talking about Collateral Damage or the sort...I'm talking like killings that literally mirrored the type of killings you see in films about the brutality of Nazi Germany. Like exicutions...litterally taking a gun and shooting a lined-up child in the head.

Also...the property confiscation is not a hoax. Why would you say something like that? It's history. That's like denying the holocaust ever happened.

The fact that all of the "People's Republics" or anything else are nothing more than totalitarian shams that have directly or indirectly murdered millions of people.
Bangladesh has not, but it is an exception.

...I know our boys in Vietnam weren't exactly repectuful of the Vietnamese, and there was the occasional accidental napalm strike (hell, we killed our own men with that), but nowhere was there any "mass murder" of anyone. (Don't even mention the atomic bomb, that was very well justified.)

...
No Gun Ri in Korea (1950) and My Lai in Vietnam (1968) are two very well-known 'incidents' of the US troops massacring the civilians.

Actually, currently, China isn't a bad place to live right about now.
Unless y'know, you try to speak out about it, in which case you get your ass thrown in jail. But that's not important at all I suppose.

Unless y'know, you try to speak out about it, in which case you get your ass thrown in jail. But that's not important at all I suppose. Or run over by a tank… it's a bad idea to be a peasant as well (but when hasn't it been?).

Indeed, my aunt and uncle just got back. (aunt is Chinese)

"Made in China" still means it's crap, but its getting up to McDonalds' quality crap over there.

And its not like Tibet was such a fantastic place to be before China invaded it. 90% of the wealth in the country belonged to the religious elite before the communists came. At least there is some development there now.
i liked tibet...
it was still living the very similiar life to which it had in the 1400s. very simple too, and it was a buddhist theocracy(even though it was tibetan buddhism, that's better than others...)

peoples republic has nothing to do with a massacure or anything, Iraq is witnessing massacres and its called a republic, congo witnessed several mmassacurs and its called democratic republic, the official name has nothing to do with it...

Clinton’s in the Republican party? :confused:

I was making a simple observation about all mentioned events.

Not yet, but Hillary is moving in that direction. In words at least if not deeds. :D

There are so many leftists on NS, I just assume all posters I don’t know are, at this point.

You are so right...er...correct. :D Maybe we need three more forums on NS, one for the left, one for the right, and one for all other. :)

:eek:

Bangladesh has not, but it is an exception.



Bangladesh is heading there. It already had a good stint of totalitarianism under Ershad.

Khaleda Zia, the current PM, is kinda a dictatress herself. Uses the islamists to silence her critics. A Zai-ul-Haq in the making.

I finally found the difference between liberals and communists!
http://polticalcompass.org

I am in the bottom left, meaning I am culturally and economically liberal, as opposed to Communists, who are cultural conservatives and economic liberals.

Bangladesh is heading there. It already had a good stint of totalitarianism under Ershad.
Don't know much about the history of Bangladesh, but Ershad's regime was IMHO more along the lines of an authoritarian military dictatorship... I don't want to be embroiled in a lengthy discussion of the differences between authoritarianism and totalitarianism, though. :)

Khaleda Zia, the current PM, is kinda a dictatress herself. Uses the islamists to silence her critics. A Zai-ul-Haq in the making.
That's too bad... It seems that all of the neighbours of India (except the mountain kingdoms of Nepal and Bhutan) are somewhat hostile towards it.

And all done by Democrats…
And people thought Kerry didn't have the heart to fight a war on terror.

I finally found the difference between liberals and communists!
http://polticalcompass.org

I am in the bottom left, meaning I am culturally and economically liberal, as opposed to Communists, who are cultural conservatives and economic liberals.

"Economic liberal" actually refers to the right of the graph: free market, small government, low taxes etc. You'd be going for "Economic socialist".

Don't know much about the history of Bangladesh, but Ershad's regime was IMHO more along the lines of an authoritarian military dictatorship...

Mark my words, Bangladesh is heading the same road that Pakistan took. Unless there is some radical change and the Awami League party comes to power (they are a sensible party), within a decade you will be seeing a Bangladeshi army coup with some general proclaiming that the leaders have failed the nation. It will be deja vu all over again.


That's too bad... It seems that all of the neighbours of India (except the mountain kingdoms of Nepal and Bhutan) are somewhat hostile towards it.

Hey, Sri Lanka is friendly to India, especially after the help with the tsunami tragedy.

Reg Nepal - Nepal's current king is pro-China while the people are friendly.

But yes, you are correct. While we are cursed with hostile basket case neighbors like Bangladesh and Pakistan, China is blessed with tiger economy neigbors like South Korea, Taiwan, HK (before unification), Japan etc.

Erm, where the hell was our "mass murder" of Japanese, Vietnamese and Koreans? I know our boys in Vietnam weren't exactly repectuful of the Vietnamese, and there was the occasional accidental napalm strike (hell, we killed our own men with that), but nowhere was there any "mass murder" of anyone. (Don't even mention the atomic bomb, that was very well justified.)

As for the Japanese, there were reports of Japanese weapon smuggling and other suspicious activity in Central America. After the detainment (concentration camp is something totally different), all suspicious activity ceased. Coincedence?

But, I must admit I never heard of the confiscation of all property. I think it's a hoax.
THere was no mass murdur of Japenese, the US just moved them into relocation camps. In the Korean war, it is alledged that raw recruits shot down korean civilians at No Gun Ri. A simalar incedant happened at Mai Lai, Vietnam.
However, Japenese soldiers treated american POWs as bad, if not worse, than the americans treated the japenese civilians. In the korean war, the communist north koreans and chinese commited more atrocities than the US forces. North Vietnamese soldiers were known to torture american POWs. Every country has their faults.

You are so right...er...correct. :D Maybe we need three more forums on NS, one for the left, one for the right, and one for all other. :)
grouping the front wing with the reverse wing?! gasp! :eek:
that third forum's going to have more flaming and things in there than all of this current forum!