NationStates Jolt Archive

This post will, as usual, be decried as 'anti-American', but it's not. America is one of the worlds great nations and as such, its politicians have a duty to its citizens who are part of that greatness. Recently they have been failing. The article, parts of which I post below, talks about the 'war' between the US and the UN, it also highlights criticisms of other countries. But America has less excuse than most in allowing its poor to become poorer and its sick to become sicker. This post is not anti-American, it's anti the politicans that betray America.

09/08/05 "The Independent" -- -- Parts of the United States are as poor as the Third World, according to a shocking United Nations report on global inequality.
Claims that the New Orleans floods have laid bare a growing racial and economic divide in the US have, until now, been rejected by the American political establishment as emotional rhetoric. But yesterday's UN report provides statistical proof that for many - well beyond those affected by the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina - the great American Dream is an ongoing nightmare.


The document constitutes a stinging attack on US policies at home and abroad in a fightback against moves by Washington to undermine next week's UN 60th anniversary conference which will be the biggest gathering of world leaders in history.

The annual Human Development Report normally concerns itself with the Third World, but the 2005 edition scrutinises inequalities in health provision inside the US as part of a survey of how inequality worldwide is retarding the eradication of poverty.

It reveals that the infant mortality rate has been rising in the US for the past five years - and is now the same as Malaysia. America's black children are twice as likely as whites to die before their first birthday.

The report is bound to incense the Bush administration as it provides ammunition for critics who have claimed that the fiasco following Hurricane Katrina shows that Washington does not care about poor black Americans.
But the 370-page document is critical of American policies towards poverty abroad as well as at home. And, in unusually outspoken language, it accuses the US of having "an overdeveloped military strategy and an under-developed strategy for human security".
"There is an urgent need to develop a collective security framework that goes beyond military responses to terrorism," it continues. " Poverty and social breakdown are core components of the global security threat."

The document, which was written by Kevin Watkins, the former head of research at Oxfam, will be seen as round two in the battle between the UN and the US, whiChild mortality is on the rise in the United States

For half a century the US has seen a sustained decline in the number of children who die before their fifth birthday. But since 2000 this trend has been reversed.

Although the US leads the world in healthcare spending - per head of population it spends twice what other rich OECD nations spend on average, 13 per cent of its national income - this high level goes disproportionately on the care of white Americans. It has not been targeted to eradicate large disparities in infant death rates based on race, wealth and state of residence.
The infant mortality rate in the US is now the same as in Malaysia

High levels of spending on personal health care reflect America's cutting-edge medical technology and treatment. But the paradox at the heart of the US health system is that, because of inequalities in health financing, countries that spend substantially less than the US have, on average, a healthier population. A baby boy from one of the top 5 per cent richest families in America will live 25 per cent longer than a boy born in the bottom 5 per cent and the infant mortality rate in the US is the same as Malaysia, which has a quarter of America's income.

Blacks in Washington DC have a higher infant death rate than people in the Indian state of Kerala

The health of US citizens is influenced by differences in insurance, income, language and education. Black mothers are twice as likely as white mothers to give birth to a low birthweight baby. And their children are more likely to become ill.
Throughout the US black children are twice as likely to die before their first birthday.

Hispanic Americans are more than twice as likely as white Americans to have no health cover

The US is the only wealthy country with no universal health insurance system. Its mix of employer-based private insurance and public coverage does not reach all Americans. More than one in six people of working age lack insurance. One in three families living below the poverty line are uninsured. Just 13 per cent of white Americans are uninsured, compared with 21 per cent of blacks and 34 per cent of Hispanic Americans. Being born into an uninsured household increases the probability of death before the age of one by about 50 per cent.

More than a third of the uninsured say that they went without medical care last year because of cost

Uninsured Americans are less likely to have regular outpatient care, so they are more likely to be admitted to hospital for avoidable health problems.

More than 40 per cent of the uninsured do not have a regular place to receive medical treatment. More than a third say that they or someone in their family went without needed medical care, including prescription drugs, in the past year because they lacked the money to pay.

If the gap in health care between black and white Americans was eliminated it would save nearly 85,000 lives a year. Technological improvements in medicine save about 20,000 lives a year.

Child poverty rates in the United States are now more than 20 per cent

Child poverty is a particularly sensitive indicator for income poverty in rich countries. It is defined as living in a family with an income below 50 per cent of the national average.

The US - with Mexico - has the dubious distinction of seeing its child poverty rates increase to more than 20 per cent. In the UK - which at the end of the 1990s had one of the highest child poverty rates in Europe - the rise in child poverty, by contrast, has been reversed through increases in tax
credits and benefits.

Oh, my Head!

Please split up your huge posts next time!

Oh, my Head!

Please split up your huge posts next time!

You're right............fair enough, I'll do it now.

Done, hope that's better, and thanks for pointing it out.

I view with suspicion any condemnations coming from the UN:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-0509080172sep08,1,3686073.story?coll=chi-newsnationworld-hed&ctrack=1&cset=true
http://www.washtimes.com/world/20050907-113942-1008r.htm
http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/africa/01/09/congo.peacekeepers.sex/
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/4697465.stm
http://www.un.org/documents/ga/docs/56/a5679.pdf

Enough said.

I view with suspicion any condemnations coming from the UN:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-0509080172sep08,1,3686073.story?coll=chi-newsnationworld-hed&ctrack=1&cset=true
http://www.washtimes.com/world/20050907-113942-1008r.htm
http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/africa/01/09/congo.peacekeepers.sex/
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/4697465.stm
http://www.un.org/documents/ga/docs/56/a5679.pdf

Enough said.

No, not enough said. You have a legitimate argument for corruption at the UN........in another thread. The facts here, in my post, remains unadressed.

"It reveals that the infant mortality rate has been rising in the US for the past five years - and is now the same as Malaysia. America's black children are twice as likely as whites to die before their first birthday."

CIA Factbook:
Infant Mortality Rates:
USA: 6.5 per 1000
Malaysia: 17.7 per 1000

Yep, just about the same.

If it is true that:

1) The politicians of the United States have failed their duties
2) The United States is a democratic nation
3) In a democracy, politicians derive their authority directly from the populace

Then who has really failed?

Alright, so maybe the US isn't a democracy, what then? Is direct democracy the answer? Or has the continual degradation of individuals within this society proven that democracy has failed?
And the specific degradation I mean is failure to activelly and effectivelly participate within the US political system.

"It reveals that the infant mortality rate has been rising in the US for the past five years - and is now the same as Malaysia. America's black children are twice as likely as whites to die before their first birthday."

CIA Factbook:
Infant Mortality Rates:
USA: 6.5 per 1000
Malaysia: 17.7 per 1000

Yep, just about the same.
Actually, I saw that same stat, but if you look at the copyright date on the site, it says 2002-2003, which means the figure probably comes from 2001 at the earliest.

I am still trying to verify with more current numbers. Not that I don't trust such an upright organization as the UN ....

Actually, I saw that same stat, but if you look at the copyright date on the site, it says 2002-2003, which means the figure probably comes from 2001 at the earliest.

I am still trying to verify with more current numbers. Not that I don't trust such an upright organization as the UN ....


True, but I doubt they are anywhere close to each other now either.

If it is true that:

The United States is a democratic nation


A republic isnt a true democracy, but even if it was, that still doesnt excuse the politicians apathetic veiw of this disaster so far

Well, I'm an American. A white American. An unemployed, uninsured white American. I have been un- or under-employed now for the past year and a half. Why? Because the economy sucks, and, because I am transgender...we are the first to be thrown on the shit heap when bad economic times come...and the last to be pulled off the same shit heap when the economic times become good once again.
Fully 70 percent of transgender Americans are un- or under-employed. Isn't discrimination lovely? Ain't America great? I certainly agree with one thing...The America Dream is, for most of us, unobtainable...unless we were born into it. It's a nightmare for most of us, forever dangling under our noses that which is forever beyond our reach. We are the first generation of Americans who will not do at least as well as our parents did. Thanks to the robber barons of the current era!

Fuck you, Walton Family!!

A republic isnt a true democracy, but even if it was, that still doesnt excuse the politicians apathetic veiw of this disaster so far

Agreed, so the US is a republic, but elections still determine what kind of people get in power. I still think the general populace deserves some of the blaim if they allow incompatent (sp) leaders to remain in power. (That is if they can remove them but don't)
And I think the problem has gotten worse. I mean, in the past people rioted and revolted on enormous scales (from the revolution, Civil War, and Hippies). Nowdays we can hardly get our asses out of gaming chatrooms to make any real political statement.
.....
*sigh* I'm gonna do my physics HW.

http://www.nationmaster.com/index.php

Life expectancy at birth
1. Andorra 83.51 years
46. United States 77.71 years

Life expectancy - Female healthy years
1. Japan 75.8 years
12. Norway 72.2 years
24. United States 68.8 years

Life expectancy - Male healthy years
1. Japan 71.4 years
16. United Kingdom 68.4 years
22. United States 66.4 years

Growth in health expenditure - Per annum
1. Ireland 6.6%
6. United Kingdom 3.8%
8. United States 3.2%

Health: Hospital beds
1. Switzerland 18.3 per 1000 people
13. Australia 7.9 per 1000 people
27. United States 3.6 per 1000 people

Health: Acute care beds
1. Germany 9 per 1000 people
11. United Kingdom 3.9 per 1000 people
19. United States 2.9 per 1000 people

Percentage of life lived in ill health - Female
6. United States 13.5%
19. United Kingdom 11.3%

Percentage of life lived in ill health - Males
9. United States 10.8%
22. United Kingdom 8.8%

Probability of reaching 65 - Female
1. Japan 92.1%
15. Israel 89.7%
33. United States 85.7%

Health: Public spending as % of total
1. Czech Republic 91.4%
7. United Kingdom 83.4%
24. United States 44.9%

Military: Expenditures
1. Israel $1451.35 per person
2. United States $1253.49 per person
10. France $745.81 per person
11. United Kingdom $708.72 per person

America is first in McDonald’s restaurants per million people and mortality due to obesity, with more deaths than Mexico, Germany, Spain, Austria and Canada combined.

<snip>

O.K., I'm not sure if this is 100% serious, but dude, u need a hug :fluffle:

Life expectancy at birth
1. Andorra 83.51 years
46. United States 77.71 years

Life expectancy - Female healthy years
1. Japan 75.8 years
12. Norway 72.2 years
24. United States 68.8 years

Life expectancy - Male healthy years
1. Japan 71.4 years
16. United Kingdom 68.4 years
22. United States 66.4 years

Growth in health expenditure - Per annum
1. Ireland 6.6%
6. United Kingdom 3.8%
8. United States 3.2%

Health: Hospital beds
1. Switzerland 18.3 per 1000 people
13. Australia 7.9 per 1000 people
27. United States 3.6 per 1000 people

Health: Acute care beds
1. Germany 9 per 1000 people
11. United Kingdom 3.9 per 1000 people
19. United States 2.9 per 1000 people

Percentage of life lived in ill health - Female
6. United States 13.5%
19. United Kingdom 11.3%

Percentage of life lived in ill health - Males
9. United States 10.8%
22. United Kingdom 8.8%

Probability of reaching 65 - Female
1. Japan 92.1%
15. Israel 89.7%
33. United States 85.7%

Health: Public spending as % of total
1. Czech Republic 91.4%
7. United Kingdom 83.4%
24. United States 44.9%

Military: Expenditures
1. Israel $1451.35 per person
2. United States $1253.49 per person
10. France $745.81 per person
11. United Kingdom $708.72 per person

America is first in McDonald’s restaurants per million people and mortality due to obesity, with more deaths than Mexico, Germany, Spain, Austria and Canada combined.
What about actual total life expectancy, instead of "healthy years"?
And what is your source?

All those facts you gave arn't peticularly damning. Fairly avarage for "First World" nations.

Agreed, so the US is a republic, but elections still determine what kind of people get in power. I still think the general populace deserves some of the blaim if they allow incompatent (sp) leaders to remain in power. (That is if they can remove them but don't)
And I think the problem has gotten worse. I mean, in the past people rioted and revolted on enormous scales (from the revolution, Civil War, and Hippies). Nowdays we can hardly get our asses out of gaming chatrooms to make any real political statement.
.....
*sigh* I'm gonna do my physics HW.

You do realise how damaging it is to a country to be enveloped in revolutions??
Sometimes (esp. as Bush only had a couple years left) to wait it out and hope to hell nothing major happens. Its just unfortunate that this time something did happen. But its all been and gone, I still think that while people are sick and homeless that we should be sorting them out, and then take bush out later

What about actual total life expectancy, instead of "healthy years"?
And what is your source?

Sorry. I omitted my scource and have included it now. You'll see there are a myriad of figures and I'm sure you'll find yours, but I posted the stats I felt relevent to my original post.

All those facts you gave arn't peticularly damning. Fairly avarage for "First World" nations.

Really? Care to examine them yourself? The link is in my first post.

*Runs through thread nazed carriynf banner reading NOW IS A GOOD TIME FOR LIBERALS TO HEAD THIS WAY --->*

http://www.nccp.org/

After a decade of decline, the proportion of low-income families is rising again and millions of children of low-income parents find themselves without the basics, despite a majority of them living in households with working parents. More than one-third of children in the United States live in low-income families and 17 percent live in poor families. Young children are disproportionally affected.

Young children disproportionally live in low-income families, and after a decade of decline, the rate is increasing. In both rural and urban areas, more than half of all children under age 6 live in low-income families.

Almost half (43%) of infants and toddlers in the United States (4.7 million children) live in low-income families and 21 percent (2.3 million) live in poor families. These early years are the most critical for healthy brain development.

Federal budget proposals put forth by President Bush and the U.S. Congress call for dramatic cuts to programs that assist low-income families and their children. The majority of these families have at least one parent who works full time, yet they still struggle to make ends meet. This brief uses NCCP’s Family Resource Simulator to illustrate how proposed cuts in vital work supports—Medicaid, food stamps, housing assistance, and child care—will affect these families.

The number of Americans living in poverty grew significantly in 2002, swelling to 34.6 million people - nearly one out of every eight people in the United States. Poverty's rise to 12.1% of the total population represented an additional 1.7 million people falling into need during the last year.
(U.S. Census Bureau, Current Population Survey, September 2003.)



12.1 million children lived in poverty in 2002. The rate of poverty among children was 16.7%, significantly higher than the poverty rate for the population as a whole. Child poverty in the U.S. is much higher -- often two-to-three times higher -- than that of most other major Western industrialized countries.
Each day in America, 2,019 babies are born into poverty. This means that a child is born into poverty every 43 seconds. Almost 80 percent of poor children live in working households.
One in five children is poor during the first three years of life – the time of greatest brain development.
An American child is born without health insurance every minute – 90 percent of our nine million uninsured children live in working families.
In Minnesota, 121,691 children lived in poverty in 2002. That translates to a poverty rate of 9.6%, the second-lowest in the nation.
For more detailed numbers and historical trends, see http://www.childrensdefense.org/fs_cptb_young18.php
See also "25 Key Facts About American Children"
For international comparisons, see http://www.lisproject.org/keyfigures/childpovrates.htm.


Most Americans believe that between 1 and 5 million people live in poverty in the United
States when the actual number is nearly 33 million.
See results of the national "Poverty Pulse" survey released by the Catholic Campaign for Human Development (CCHD).

A single parent of two young children working full-time in a minimum wage job for a year would make $10,712 before taxes - more than $4,300 below the poverty line. (U.S. Department of Labor; U.S. Census Bureau, Current Population Survey, March 2001.)



According to the Children's Defense Fund, for every year that 14.5 million American children continue to experience poverty, their lifetime contribution to the economy will decline by an estimated $130 billion because poor children grow up to be less educated and often less productive workers.

Me: White, unemployed, uninsured, middle-aged female receiving no benefits now or ever. Formerly employed 16 years for our dear old government. When I became ill they denied me benefits and tried to fire me. Rather than lose my house I resigned and drew out my retirement after which they came through with benefits for the months I had been employed but not working. Because of our retirement system I will not be elegible for the social security system nor do I have a retirement coming to me now. LOL. Gotta love our country.

Oh, and BTW, both of my children are currently serving in the military. Can I sneak across the border into Canada ya think??

The number of Americans living in poverty grew significantly in 2002, swelling to 34.6 million people - nearly one out of every eight people in the United States. Poverty's rise to 12.1% of the total population represented an additional 1.7 million people falling into need during the last year.
(U.S. Census Bureau, Current Population Survey, September 2003.)



12.1 million children lived in poverty in 2002. The rate of poverty among children was 16.7%, significantly higher than the poverty rate for the population as a whole. Child poverty in the U.S. is much higher -- often two-to-three times higher -- than that of most other major Western industrialized countries.
Each day in America, 2,019 babies are born into poverty. This means that a child is born into poverty every 43 seconds. Almost 80 percent of poor children live in working households.
One in five children is poor during the first three years of life – the time of greatest brain development.
An American child is born without health insurance every minute – 90 percent of our nine million uninsured children live in working families.
In Minnesota, 121,691 children lived in poverty in 2002. That translates to a poverty rate of 9.6%, the second-lowest in the nation.
For more detailed numbers and historical trends, see http://www.childrensdefense.org/fs_cptb_young18.php
See also "25 Key Facts About American Children"
For international comparisons, see http://www.lisproject.org/keyfigures/childpovrates.htm.


Most Americans believe that between 1 and 5 million people live in poverty in the United
States when the actual number is nearly 33 million.
See results of the national "Poverty Pulse" survey released by the Catholic Campaign for Human Development (CCHD).

A single parent of two young children working full-time in a minimum wage job for a year would make $10,712 before taxes - more than $4,300 below the poverty line. (U.S. Department of Labor; U.S. Census Bureau, Current Population Survey, March 2001.)



According to the Children's Defense Fund, for every year that 14.5 million American children continue to experience poverty, their lifetime contribution to the economy will decline by an estimated $130 billion because poor children grow up to be less educated and often less productive workers.

Your cut-and-paste skills are fabulous.

But it all boils down to this:

What country does most of the world's population what to get to?

Your anti-american (and that's what it is despite your protestations)
propoganda, masquerading as fact sheets, tell me nothing about why it is
that America is still the place everone wants to live.

There are problems in every country. Show me the problems in yours..!!

If you are FROM the US,.. show me the problems in your "favorite" non-US
country..!


-The REAL Iakeo

Me: White, unemployed, uninsured, middle-aged female receiving no benefits now or ever. Formerly employed 16 years for our dear old government. When I became ill they denied me benefits and tried to fire me. Rather than lose my house I resigned and drew out my retirement after which they came through with benefits for the months I had been employed but not working. Because of our retirement system I will not be elegible for the social security system nor do I have a retirement coming to me now. LOL. Gotta love our country.

Oh, and BTW, both of my children are currently serving in the military. Can I sneak across the border into Canada ya think??

I say go for it..!!

Do we REALLY need you here,.. if you don't need us..?


-The REAL Iakeo

"It reveals that the infant mortality rate has been rising in the US for the past five years - and is now the same as Malaysia. America's black children are twice as likely as whites to die before their first birthday."

CIA Factbook:
Infant Mortality Rates:
USA: 6.5 per 1000
Malaysia: 17.7 per 1000

Yep, just about the same.
Unfortunately, the CIA is likely not any more reliable than the UN.

Fuck you, Walton Family!!
Here, here!
Cheers!

You do realise how damaging it is to a country to be enveloped in revolutions??
Sometimes (esp. as Bush only had a couple years left) to wait it out and hope to hell nothing major happens. Its just unfortunate that this time something did happen. But its all been and gone, I still think that while people are sick and homeless that we should be sorting them out, and then take bush out later

*done*
I wasn't reffering specifically to Bush. I think there are hordes of politicians who should not hold office, especially within a representative government. My point is, no matter how bad they are people simply don't care anymore. Hell, they might even preffer the bad ones cuz they're entertaining. Those examples were of previous times when the citizenery not only cared, but was willing to fight and die (maybe not the hippies) for their political beliefs. But now even if they care, they take it out in areas that in no way effect the status quo.

I guess I'm going somewhat off-topic so I'll say this. Within the American system and especially in accordance to our tradition, if a leader has failed to maintain the "social contract" they should be removed quickly, and forcibly if neccessary. If there is something wrong with our leadership there's no use complaining, we have the power to change the situation.

We are, however, slowly losing that power.

Your cut-and-paste skills are fabulous.

But it all boils down to this:

What country does most of the world's population what to get to?

Your anti-american (and that's what it is despite your protestations)
propoganda, masquerading as fact sheets, tell me nothing about why it is
that America is still the place everone wants to live.

There are problems in every country. Show me the problems in yours..!!

If you are FROM the US,.. show me the problems in your "favorite" non-US
country..!


-The REAL Iakeo



I'll tell you what it boils down to. Shame on certain people, that's what it boils down to. Instead of whining at the messenger, why aren't people like you enraged that all this goes on in the country that spends so much on so-called defence? Your lack of concern though, is not unexpected, there will always be people who don't care for the less fortunate, and certainly wouldn't dream of spending money on them.

And you still labour under delusions. America is no longer the paradise that people want to get to. They want Europe more. It's also geographical. You can't admit to any faults can you?

Problems in the UK? The war in Iraq, terrorism, the poor, the National Health, crime, rising house prices,.........want more? I discuss all these problems at length.

Your shame is that you want to continue living in your fantasy land. Even the New Orleans disaster can't shake people like you from your cosy slumber.

Here you are Oekai. Happy now? Tell me, how has this helped your needy?


Poverty UK.

Income

The most commonly used threshold of low income is 60% of median income. In 2002/03, before deducting housing costs, this equated to £194 per week for a couple with no children, £118 for a single person, £283 for a couple with two children and £207 for a lone parent with two children.

In 2002/03, 12.4 million people were living on incomes below this income threshold. This represents a drop of 1½ million since 1996/97.

The numbers of people on relative low incomes remained broadly unchanged during the 1990s after having doubled in the 1980s.

In 2002/03, there were 8 million people on incomes below the fixed threshold of 60% of 1996/97 median income. This represents a drop of 6 million since 1996/97.

Half of all people in social housing are on low incomes compared to one in six of those in other housing tenures. Can’t find this graph on website
-------------------------------
Child poverty

The number of children living in households below 60% of median income was 3.6 million in 2002/03.
This represents a drop of 0.8 million since 1996/97.
Children are one and a half times more likely to live in a low income household than adults.
2 million children live in workless households.
------------------------
Work

In 2004, there were 2.3 million people who wanted to be in paid work but were not, compared to 3.5 million a decade previously. This rate of reduction is much less than the rate of reduction in ILO unemployment because the numbers who are 'economically inactive but would like work' have remained unchanged.

Two-fifths of all lone parents do not have paid work.

Around ½ million young adults aged 16 to 24 were unemployed in 2004 (around 10%). Numbers have reduced by two-fifths since a decade ago but young adult unemployment rates two-and-a-half times higher than those for older workers.

Two-fifths of those getting work are out-of-work again within six months. A third of temporary employees would like a permanent job.

People without qualifications are three times less likely to receive job related training compared with those with some qualifications.
-----------------------------
Low pay

5½ million adults aged 22 to retirement were paid less than £6.50 per hour in 2004.

1.2 million 18- to 21-year-olds were paid less than £6.50 per hour in 2004. 300,000 were paid less that the full adult minimum wage.

Around 14% of working age households are now in receipt of tax credits. In total, more than three times as many people are now in receipt of tax credits as were in receipt of Family Credit a decade ago.
----------------------
Education

11-year-olds: The proportions failing to achieve level 4 or above at key stage 2 in English and Maths have fallen substantially in recent years but children in schools with relatively high numbers on free school meals continue to do much worse than other schools.

16-year olds: In 2003/04, around 25% of pupils (170,000 pupils) got no grades above a D at GCSE. This compares with around 30% (190,000) a decade previously. 12% obtained less than 5 GCSEs and 6% got no grades at all.

19-year-olds: 200,000 had no basic qualifications (without an NVQ2 or equivalent) in 2004. This compares to 230,000 a decade previously.

10,000 pupils were permanently excluded from school in 2002/03. This represents a fall of a quarter since the peak in 1996/97.
---------------------
Health
(Note: most of the statistics below relate to the year 2002, the latest year for which official data currently exists).

Scotland has by far the highest proportion of premature deaths for both men and women.

Adults in the poorest fifth of the income distribution are twice as likely to be at risk of developing a mental illness as those on average incomes.

Almost half of adults aged 45-64 in the poorest fifth of the population have a limiting longstanding illness or disability, twice the rate for those on average incomes.

Children from manual social backgrounds are 1½ times more likely to die as infants than children from non-manual social backgrounds.

Babies from manual social backgrounds are 1 1/3 times more likely to be of low birthweight than those from non-manual social backgrounds.

Teenage motherhood is six times as common amongst those from manual social backgrounds as for those from professional backgrounds.

A quarter of women aged 25-64 are now obese compared to a sixth a decade ago.

5-year-olds in Scotland, Wales and North West have, on average, twice as many missing, decayed or filled teeth as 5-year-olds in the West Midlands and South East.
-------------------------------
Crime

Both burglaries and violent crimes have halved over the last decade.

Households with no household insurance are around three times as likely to be burgled as those with insurance. Half of those on low income do not have any household insurance compared with a fifth for households on average incomes.
--------------------------------------
Housing

4/5% of people live in overcrowded conditions, compared with 6% a decade ago. Overcrowding is more than three times as prevalent in social rented housing as in owner-occupation

Although poorer households remain more likely to lack central heating, the proportion who do so is now actually less than that for households on average incomes in 1996/97. Those living in the private rented sector are the most likely to be without central heating.

The number of mortgage holders in serious arrears is now at its lowest level for fifteen years.

105,000 households were in temporary accommodation in 2004. This compares to 45,000 in 1997.
-------------------------
Ethnic minorities

People of Black Caribbean, Bangladeshi and african ethnicity are twice as likely to be out of work and wanting work compared with white people.

Although the rate of permanent exclusions for black pupils has halved in recent years, they are still three times more likely to be excluded than Whites.

Black young adults are seven times as likely as white young adults to be in prison.

Black adults are more than twice as likely not to have a bank or building society account as the population as a whole.
------------------------------
Older people

The number of pensioners living in households below 60% of median income was 2.2million in 2002/03. This is 21% of all pensioners.

Older pensioner couples are much more likely to be on low income than younger pensioner couples. The same is not true for single pensioners

The proportion of elderly people aged 75 and over who receive support from social services to help them live at home is three-fifths what is was a decade previously. County councils and unitary authorities support far fewer households than either urban or Welsh authorities.

http://www.poverty.org.uk/summary/key_facts.htm

Originally Posted by Oekai
Your cut-and-paste skills are fabulous.

But it all boils down to this:

What country does most of the world's population what to get to?

Your anti-american (and that's what it is despite your protestations)
propoganda, masquerading as fact sheets, tell me nothing about why it is
that America is still the place everone wants to live.

There are problems in every country. Show me the problems in yours..!!

If you are FROM the US,.. show me the problems in your "favorite" non-US
country..!

-The REAL Iakeo

I'll tell you what it boils down to. Shame on certain people, that's what it boils down to. Instead of whining at the messenger, why aren't people like you enraged that all this goes on in the country that spends so much on so-called defence? Your lack of concern though, is not unexpected, there will always be people who don't care for the less fortunate, and certainly wouldn't dream of spending money on them.

Firstly, it'd be nice if you could spell "defense".

Secondly,.. how many bum's drug habits have you supported today by giving
them a free handout?


And you still labour under delusions. America is no longer the paradise that people want to get to. They want Europe more. It's also geographical. You can't admit to any faults can you?

America was never a paradise. Only a place, like all other places, for an
experiment in civilization. Ours has proved the one that most of the world
wants to be within.

People want Europe more, only because it's either a steppingstone to
America, or because that's where they got stranded on their way to America.

And I include Canada as "America", here, as our foyer.

[/quote]
Problems in the UK? The war in Iraq, terrorism, the poor, the National Health, crime, rising house prices,.........want more? I discuss all these problems at length. [/quote]

See. We all have our little problems,.. don't we.


Your shame is that you want to continue living in your fantasy land. Even the New Orleans disaster can't shake people like you from your cosy slumber.

And nothing will shake "people like you" from your little fantasy land of "We
are the World" goofery.

No society is flawless. Everyone wants all these problems "solved", as it
would afford them more time and resources to do what they REALLY want to
do,.. and I commend you for your protestations of what you see as people in
general not doing enough to help solve these problems,.. but your adolescent
ranting (supported by good but out-of-context information) just makes your
cause that much easier to dismiss as the ravings of children.

Have fun in your attempted destruction of those forces in society that are
the only ones that CAN have a large positive effect on societies problems.

And continue you efforts to help the less fortunate.


-The REAL Iakeo :)

Firstly, it'd be nice if you could spell "defense".
America was never a paradise. Only a place, like all other places, for an
experiment in civilization. Ours has proved the one that most of the world
wants to be within.

People want Europe more, only because it's either a steppingstone to
America, or because that's where they got stranded on their way to America.
And I include Canada as "America", here, as our foyer.


See. We all have our little problems,.. don't we.


dude, get off your high horse. You can't say that people who move to Europe are using that as a stepping stone, or abandoned there, to get to the US.

Poverty is a big issue that should be addressed in America. That's all he is saying, he isn't anti-american. Unless you want to call me anti-american as well.

As far as his numbers, he's saying the UK is doing better than it was 7 years ago. less jobless folk, less poor people, etc.

i repeat, get off your high horse.

Firstly, it'd be nice if you could spell "defense".

The rest of the world spells it "defence".

just so you know.

But it all boils down to this:

What country does most of the world's population what to get to?

I have to say at this time in history it's probably Canada or some European countries.

"This post is not anti-American, it's anti the politicans that betray America"
I hate my country's president. And don't tell me I shouldn't have voted for him I didn't.

Firstly, it'd be nice if you could spell "defense".

Be nice if you could spell defence. Aren't cultural differences wonderful?

Firstly, it'd be nice if you could spell "defense".
No, "defence" is correct. :p

The number of Americans living in poverty grew significantly in 2002, swelling to 34.6 million people - nearly one out of every eight people in the United States. Poverty's rise to 12.1% of the total population represented an additional 1.7 million people falling into need during the last year.
(U.S. Census Bureau, Current Population Survey, September 2003.)



12.1 million children lived in poverty in 2002. The rate of poverty among children was 16.7%, significantly higher than the poverty rate for the population as a whole. Child poverty in the U.S. is much higher -- often two-to-three times higher -- than that of most other major Western industrialized countries.
Each day in America, 2,019 babies are born into poverty. This means that a child is born into poverty every 43 seconds. Almost 80 percent of poor children live in working households.
One in five children is poor during the first three years of life – the time of greatest brain development.
An American child is born without health insurance every minute – 90 percent of our nine million uninsured children live in working families.
In Minnesota, 121,691 children lived in poverty in 2002. That translates to a poverty rate of 9.6%, the second-lowest in the nation.
For more detailed numbers and historical trends, see http://www.childrensdefense.org/fs_cptb_young18.php
See also "25 Key Facts About American Children"
For international comparisons, see http://www.lisproject.org/keyfigures/childpovrates.htm.


Most Americans believe that between 1 and 5 million people live in poverty in the United
States when the actual number is nearly 33 million.
See results of the national "Poverty Pulse" survey released by the Catholic Campaign for Human Development (CCHD).

A single parent of two young children working full-time in a minimum wage job for a year would make $10,712 before taxes - more than $4,300 below the poverty line. (U.S. Department of Labor; U.S. Census Bureau, Current Population Survey, March 2001.)



According to the Children's Defense Fund, for every year that 14.5 million American children continue to experience poverty, their lifetime contribution to the economy will decline by an estimated $130 billion because poor children grow up to be less educated and often less productive workers.

Waaa :confused: ????

Poverty growing ?? at the height of a recession... nooo waaaay. You passed economics too huh ? :D

So the question is.. is it the result of poor governance.. or the reality that Poverty grows when the economy sinks ? :rolleyes:

I have to say at this time in history it's probably Canada or some European countries.

Most definitely. I'd consider the Scandinavian nations (specifically Sweden and Norway) the best places to live in, along with Canada and a good portion of Europe (mostly Western).

Most definitely. I'd consider the Scandinavian nations (specifically Sweden and Norway) the best places to live in, along with Canada and a good portion of Europe (mostly Western).

Scandinavain nations? It's damn cold there. Give me good ole Switzerland anyday.

Come on, Euro, I thought you had better taste :D

Waaa :confused: ????

Poverty growing ?? at the height of a recession... nooo waaaay. You passed economics too huh ? :D

So the question is.. is it the result of poor governance.. or the reality that Poverty grows when the economy sinks ? :rolleyes:


Is the US at the height of a recession??? Then why is there a housing boom? Why is the jobless rate declining? I haven't seen any signs of a recession where I live.

Waaa :confused: ????

Poverty growing ?? at the height of a recession... nooo waaaay. You passed economics too huh ? :D

So the question is.. is it the result of poor governance.. or the reality that Poverty grows when the economy sinks ? :rolleyes:


In this case I would say both were a factor.

JMayo

Originally Posted by Oekaii
Firstly, it'd be nice if you could spell "defense".

No, "defence" is correct. :p

Defence is definately correct. Though a variant.

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=defence

You really should discover the "colour" of language. :)

Hi Wills..!! :eek:

And I include Canada as "America", here, as our foyer.
-The REAL Iakeo :)

ah yes canada,the doorstep to america.for those coming from the arctic circle.

oh and something mentioned earlier,ireland having the largest increase in health expenditure.that doesnt equal a good health system,we still have hundreds of people waiting on hospital trolleys for a bed.but its getting better.

Is the US at the height of a recession??? Then why is there a housing boom? Why is the jobless rate declining? I haven't seen any signs of a recession where I live.

1. My comment was directed to the article which was citing information from 2002 which WAS at the hieght of a recession. Today we are not

2. The housing Boom (Bubble) is the result of investors running to "Safe" investments as reality generally is thought of, taking advantage of historically rock bottom interest rate. This is not indictative of a nation exactly in econoimc prosperity, but can be a sign of worse things to come (investments made on credit).

3. Declining jobless rate dosn't not speak directly to the QUALITY of those jobs being attained, only that either people are LEAVING the labor force, in that they are giving up looking for a job, or they are taking the first low paying crap job they can find.

Of course I would be the first to sing a rosy picture about our economy as of now, for now.. But, one should always keep the realities of life in mind.

I have to say at this time in history it's probably Canada or some European countries.


A personal opinion, but certainly not based in fact.

Carefull....... The housing boom is not a bubble everywhere. If the numbers are based on supply and demand and not some fantasy. I do agree, however, that when your auto mechanic starts giving real estate advice and discussing his latest property acquisitions, it is time to go back to trading stocks!

Quality of jobs. What does that mean? A job is a job - question is - are you qualified for the job? Maybe I'm jaded as a result of my hard-earned and yet to be paid off doctorate degree and eight years of working as a consultant (of sorts) for small and large businesses alike. I'm a big believer in creating your own destiny and taking charge of your own career. If you don't like the jobs that are out there - create your own!

And finally, ok - 2002 (or rather 2000 - 2001) did "suck" economically speaking.

Well we do know that until 2002 IMRs were declining according to what the JAMA published in Vol. 294 No. 3, July 20, 2005.

During 1995-2002, IMRs declined for all racial/ethnic populations; however, the decrease for infants of American Indian/Alaska Native mothers was not statistically significant. In addition, little fluctuation was noted in the relative differences in IMRs between different racial/ethnic populations.


How ever I found this on the CDC website under life expectancy.

After the first infant mortality rate increase in 44 years in 2002, the rate for 2003 did not change significantly (6.9 deaths per 1,000 live births in 2003 compared to a rate of 7.0 per 1,000 in 2002.)

There is no possible way that rate of IMRs doubled in 2 years.

The math in the UN report and what we have to go on does not add up.

Key phrases in the UN report like this "Key US health indicators are far below those that might be anticipated on the basis of national wealth." leads me to wonder how much of this report is based on current math and how much is opinion.

Also the UN report states that the increase in IMRs began in 2000. There is no supportive information that I can find at JAMA, CDC or any of 7 University library databases I can access.

That being said my subjective view from working in food kitchens and Hospice homes. The numbers of children I am seeing in both places has increased. I don't doubt the UN has seen an increase in IMRs as we have seen an increase in the population living below the poverty line.
I don't believe we should discard the report because the math is not perfect.
I don't think we need to be out running to lynch every politician out there either no matter how much fun it would be. I also would rather be poor and living in the United States then poor and living in Malaysia. Been there saw it and could not stomach it. Americans do what they can at home and in Malaysia no matter who is in the White house.

JMayo

I don't believe we should discard the report because the math is not perfect.
I don't think we need to be out running to lynch every politician out there either no matter how much fun it would be. I also would rather be poor and living in the United States then poor and living in Malaysia. Been there saw it and could not stomach it. Americans do what they can at home and in Malaysia no matter who is in the White house.

JMayo

I agree. I want to say, as one who's been accused of anti-Americanism and all sorts of foul crimes, I started this thread out of a sense of outrage not with the people, but the government(s) of the US. The US is still the wealthiest nation on Earth, and the amount of poverty the American people endure just doesn't have to be. And when you give more than a cursory look at how much is spent on 'defence' it can seem almost obscene. As a Brit, I want to see a prosporous and thriving American economy, as a wishy washy liberal, red menace, pinko, I rail at the poverty in America. I also do my little bit to fight it in the UK.

I agree. I want to say, as one who's been accused of anti-Americanism and all sorts of foul crimes, I started this thread out of a sense of outrage not with the people, but the government(s) of the US. The US is still the wealthiest nation on Earth, and the amount of poverty the American people endure just doesn't have to be. And when you give more than a cursory look at how much is spent on 'defence' it can seem almost obscene. As a Brit, I want to see a prosporous and thriving American economy, as a wishy washy liberal, red menace, pinko, I rail at the poverty in America. I also do my little bit to fight it in the UK.

The united states does not like socialism....we like it that people that dont work become poor, because that is what they deserve to be for not doing their part. I dont really give a shit if you dont like that,

The rich ARE NOT LUCKY and the poor are NOT UNLUCKY like you are trying to make it out as....people are the way they are due to the choices they make in life. The only reason why this crap comes up is the Eurotrash that i fleed from 5 years ago is seaping into american culture

God imma have ot flee to fucking Japan soon at least there people have self-responsiblity and arent bleeding heart idiots most of the time.

The united states does not like socialism....we like it that people that dont work become poor, because that is what they deserve to be for not doing their part. I dont really give a shit if you dont like that,

The rich ARE NOT LUCKY and the poor are NOT UNLUCKY like you are trying to make it out as....people are the way they are due to the choices they make in life. The only reason why this crap comes up is the Eurotrash that i fleed from 5 years ago is seaping into american culture

God imma have ot flee to fucking Japan soon at least there people have self-responsiblity and arent bleeding heart idiots most of the time.

Everybody gets good and bad luck. Wanting something decent for the less advantaged is not socialism, it's decency. You like it that people who don't work are poor, what about the sick? What about the poor sods who can't get a job, or a living wage job? Only the mean and spiteful think these people deserve poverty. Eurotrash eh? We have at least as good a standard of living as Americans.............I see no trash. It's a great thing to work and make a good living, maybe even become rich, but there are those who never had a decent education, or are disable, or let's face it, are not very bright (we can't all be clever), these people need a chance too.

The united states does not like socialism....we like it that people that dont work become poor, because that is what they deserve to be for not doing their part. I dont really give a shit if you dont like that,

The rich ARE NOT LUCKY and the poor are NOT UNLUCKY like you are trying to make it out as....people are the way they are due to the choices they make in life. The only reason why this crap comes up is the Eurotrash that i fleed from 5 years ago is seaping into american culture

God imma have ot flee to fucking Japan soon at least there people have self-responsiblity and arent bleeding heart idiots most of the time.

I hope you're joking. Poverty is absolutely not a choice. Living on the streets is not a choice. Watching your children starve to death in your arms is no way in hell "a choice". It's statments like yours above that try and justify the abuses made by our government, by the men WE elect into office to supposedly protect us. "By the people and for the people" my ____.

America is currently the world superpower, and yet we cannot even ensure that all of our citizens have enough food to stay alive or even a decent place to sleep at night, yet our leaders have no problem shelling out trillions of dollars into foreign conquests and "nation building" abroad. Nation building? What makes them the right men for the job when they can't even take care of their own populace? When they leave 100,000 of their most vunerable citizens to fend for themselves in the face of one of the worst natural disasters in American history, how the hell do they acquire the credentials to become our leaders!?

Our government has failed monumentously in its duties, and I am convinced that within my lifetime the society and government of America will change radically. The rich continue to get richer while the poor lay forgotten amongst the refuse, with more and more people joining their ranks as the buffer middle class vanishes before our very eyes. Health care is unavaliable to most of them and many are living in third world conditions. Under such conditions, radicalism will flourish and you'll have the beginnings of open class conflict. If trends continue on the same course, all you will need is a leader to form the cult of personality and you'll have yourself a revolution.

But it shouldn't come to this. Hopefully one day soon our leaders will be able to extricate their heads from their a__ long enough to do some good for our country and our people, every damn one of them. It shouldn't take a gun to garuntee that the basic human rights of all are protected, and it most certianly shouldn't be needed in America.

The united states does not like socialism....we like it that people that dont work become poor, because that is what they deserve to be for not doing their part. I dont really give a shit if you dont like that,

The rich ARE NOT LUCKY and the poor are NOT UNLUCKY like you are trying to make it out as....people are the way they are due to the choices they make in life. The only reason why this crap comes up is the Eurotrash that i fleed from 5 years ago is seaping into american culture

God imma have ot flee to fucking Japan soon at least there people have self-responsiblity and arent bleeding heart idiots most of the time.

Yeah...so that assholes who have all the money can take away choices from other people by holding them hostage, economically.

I suffer from this. Because I am transgender, many people will not give me a job, even though I am extermely well-qualified for the jobs I apply for. They want to punish me for what I have done with my own body, and they ought not be allowed to do that. My choices that hurt no one else, and are not illegal...should not be taken away from me...or used against me in this way. It is not fair and it is not right.

Now, I want to work. Either give me a job and let me EARN a living...or quit bitching about me "sucking off the welfare system." It is YOUR discriminatory practices that are keeping me unfairly oppressed and down. what am I supposed to do, curl up and die, just because you don't like me, or what I have done with my own body?

I am not lazy, I am not stupid, I am not underqualified. But I DO suffer from discrimination, bigotry, and prejudice. but I suppose you think that's fair...and that I'm human garbage that deserves to starve to death, right?

The united states does not like socialism....we like it that people that dont work become poor, because that is what they deserve to be for not doing their part. I dont really give a shit if you dont like that,

The rich ARE NOT LUCKY and the poor are NOT UNLUCKY like you are trying to make it out as....people are the way they are due to the choices they make in life. The only reason why this crap comes up is the Eurotrash that i fleed from 5 years ago is seaping into american culture

God imma have ot flee to fucking Japan soon at least there people have self-responsiblity and arent bleeding heart idiots most of the time.

I suggest ignoring the obvious troll.

Cheers
Grantwold.

I hope you're joking. Poverty is absolutely not a choice. Living on the streets is not a choice. Watching your children starve to death in your arms is no way in hell "a choice". It's statments like yours above that try and justify the abuses made by our government, by the men WE elect into office to supposedly protect us. "By the people and for the people" my ____.

America is currently the world superpower, and yet we cannot even ensure that all of our citizens have enough food to stay alive or even a decent place to sleep at night, yet our leaders have no problem shelling out trillions of dollars into foreign conquests and "nation building" abroad. Nation building? What makes them the right men for the job when they can't even take care of their own populace? When they leave 100,000 of their most vunerable citizens to fend for themselves in the face of one of the worst natural disasters in American history, how in the hell do they acquire the credentials to be our leaders!?

Our government has failed monumentously in its duties, and I am convinced that within my lifetime the society and government of America will change radically. The rich continue to get richer while the poor lay forgotten amongst the refuse, with more and more people joining their ranks as the buffer middle class vanishes before our very eyes. Health care is unavaliable to most of them and many are living in third world conditions. Under such conditions, radicalism will flourish and you'll have the beginnings of open class conflict. If trends continue on the same course, all you will need is a leader to form the cult of personality and you'll have yourself a revolution.

But it shouldn't come to this. Hopefully one day soon our leaders will be able to extricate their heads from their a__ long enough to do some good for our country and our people. Not just the rich, but every damn one of them.

Actually, I hope so. With all the built-up, pent-up anger I have towards the powerful in our society, and the mistreatment I, and people like me, have received at their hands, there is nothing I would like better than to join an angry mob and rip those assholes apart, literally, limb from limb, like you saw in 1920's China. And I'm serious when I say this. I want to hurt them like they have hurt me. I want to tear out their hearts (if they even have hearts anymore) in the same way they have torn out my heart and denied me a chance to realize my dreams.

I'm all for the revolution. I'll be the first to sign up if and when the revolution comes! DOWN WITH THE BOURGEOSIE!! POWER TO THE PROLETARIAT!!

Actually, I hope so. With all the built-up, pent-up anger I have towards the powerful in our society, and the mistreatment I, and people like me, have received at their hands, there is nothing I would like better than to join an angry mob and rip those assholes apart, literally, limb from limb, like you saw in 1920's China. And I'm serious when I say this. I want to hurt them like they have hurt me. I want to tear out their hearts (if they even have hearts anymore) in the same way they have torn out my heart and denied me a chance to realize my dreams.

I'm all for the revolution. I'll be the first to sign up if and when the revolution comes! DOWN WITH THE BOURGEOSIE!! POWER TO THE PROLETARIAT!!

"If you build it, they will come"
or...
Just bide your time Lyric, bide your time :)

Well you're an angry little man aren't you?

America is a land of opportunity, that means you have an equal chance to succeed and fail. There are mitigating factors either way. Do keep in mind though, the more a person rants and complains about their situation, the more likely it is it's their fault.

Not saying America is perfect, far from it, but you can't condemn the entire nation for things that aren't the nation's fault. Wanna know why black infant mortality rate is high? Because the percentage of blacks below poverty is higher than whites. There are a number of reasons for this, and very few of them are attributable to racism. Instead of dividing things along a color line, check mortality rate versus annual income. It'd also be interesting to see how number of children and relative wealth scale.

Actually, I hope so. With all the built-up, pent-up anger I have towards the powerful in our society, and the mistreatment I, and people like me, have received at their hands, there is nothing I would like better than to join an angry mob and rip those assholes apart, literally, limb from limb, like you saw in 1920's China. And I'm serious when I say this. I want to hurt them like they have hurt me. I want to tear out their hearts (if they even have hearts anymore) in the same way they have torn out my heart and denied me a chance to realize my dreams.

I'm all for the revolution. I'll be the first to sign up if and when the revolution comes! DOWN WITH THE BOURGEOSIE!! POWER TO THE PROLETARIAT!!

So you want to take everything away from the people who worked hard to build a company? Why? Is it simply for the fact that they make more money than you? Or that they have a better job? (or for that case better education) Also how did they hurt you and take away your dreams anyway you crazy piece of shit? Everybody has the chance to improve in sicial standing in America. You just need to do something called work.

"If you build it, they will come"
or...
Just bide your time Lyric, bide your time :)

Wait you actually think there will be a socialist revolution?
Wow nobody believes in working anymore everything has to be given to them.

America is first in McDonald’s restaurants per million people and mortality due to obesity, with more deaths than Mexico, Germany, Spain, Austria and Canada combined.

Population
Austria: 8,184,691
Canada: 32,805,041
Germany: 82,431,390
Mexico: 106,202,903
Spain: 40,341,462
Combined: 269,965,487

America: 295,734,134
Combined:295,734,134

Difference: +25,768,647 America.
Yeah, it only stands to reason that we would have more people die from obesity every year when we have 25 million more people than those countries combined and the most populous of those countries, Mexico, kind of has a problem with availability of food and poverty. BTW, I wouldn't read too much into the obesity reports coming out of America. At six foot, 176 pounds I was told by my health insurance company that I was overweight and that if I did not lose two pounds my premiums would go up. I took a bloodtest, my body fat is below average, my cholesterol is low, in terms of physical health I am almost a perfect specimen and yet my insurance company was telling me to lose weight. Smell that? Smells like bullshit to me.

Of course America will have more MacDonalds than any other country in the world. I bet Canada has more Tim Hortons or whatever those are called than any other nation in the world. I bet China has more Chinese resteraunts than any other country in the world.

As for the accusations of racism, I guess I will laugh at those. The reason we don't have a federal funded health insurance policy for every singler person is because we have a word for that hear, we like to call it, oh damn, what is that word.... *thinking* oh yeah, SOCIALISM. We kind of fought a cold war against that for 45 years and it is some ways still continues today. Would I like to see my nation have a nation wide health plan? Yes and no, I have always believed that a person should work for a living and Welfare and any variant there of to me seems like a step in the wrong direction. (Look up the Grain Dole in the Roman Empire, a quarter of the city unemployed!) But this is coming from a White male and as such I will apparently have everything handed to my on a silver platter and apparently my shit don't stink, all I have to do is live in a trailer and marry some white trash to keep poppin out babies every 13 months to keep the welfare checks rolling in. Or I could re-enlist in the Army after my knee heals, whichever.

I would not be a truly accurate source to ask about racism though, I live in South Dakota and we have a very small minority population, I swear the only state whiter is Wyoming, maybe Montana too but I doubt it. I am not saying that I hate black people or anything, but I just don't know many and since I am poor too I can't say I notice any sort of "racial barrier" in terms of economic standing.

Wait you actually think there will be a socialist revolution?
Wow nobody believes in working anymore everything has to be given to them.
Or rather some of us believe in giving some of what we work for back to the society that sustains us.

Wait you actually think there will be a socialist revolution?
Wow nobody believes in working anymore everything has to be given to them.

Socialist Revolution + America = 7 (modulo 3)
Boolean Algebra (aka, bullshit)

Or rather some of us believe in giving some of what we work for back to the society that sustains us.

That's why I chose to join the Army over a "career." Something about not wanting to become rich by shitting on others.

Well you're an angry little man aren't you?

America is a land of opportunity, that means you have an equal chance to succeed and fail. ...Do keep in mind though, the more a person rants and complains about their situation, the more likely it is it's their fault.

Opinion, not fact.

Not saying America is perfect, far from it, but you can't condemn the entire nation for things that aren't the nation's fault. Wanna know why black infant mortality rate is high? Because the percentage of blacks below poverty is higher than whites. There are a number of reasons for this, and very few of them are attributable to racism.


source?

Orginally Posted by Vlad von Volcist
So you want to take everything away from the people who worked hard to build a company? Why? Is it simply for the fact that they make more money than you? Or that they have a better job? (or for that case better education) Also how did they hurt you and take away your dreams anyway you crazy piece of shit? Everybody has the chance to improve in sicial standing in America. You just need to do something called work.

Nice Flaming :rolleyes:

source?


Not saying America is perfect, far from it, but you can't condemn the entire nation for things that aren't the nation's fault. Wanna know why black infant mortality rate is high? Because the percentage of blacks below poverty is higher than whites. There are a number of reasons for this, and very few of them are attributable to racism.


That is common knowlege. Everyone knows there are more black people in poverty in America that any other race.

That is common knowlege. Everyone knows there are more black people in poverty in America that any other race.


I meant, prove your thesis that the reasons have nothing to do with racism.

I meant, prove your thesis that the reasons have nothing to do with racism.

Oh, Ok.

But, how would a source prove a thesis? Isn't a thesis something that has not been proved?

Oh, and I do not believe it is possible to prove a negative.

Can you prove that the reasons do have something to do with racism?

"It reveals that the infant mortality rate has been rising in the US for the past five years - and is now the same as Malaysia. America's black children are twice as likely as whites to die before their first birthday."

CIA Factbook:
Infant Mortality Rates:
USA: 6.5 per 1000
Malaysia: 17.7 per 1000

Yep, just about the same.maybe they meant the Black mortality rate...

Oh, Ok.

But, how would a source prove a thesis? Isn't a thesis something that has not been proved?

Oh, and I do not believe it is possible to prove a negative.

Can you prove that the reasons do have something to do with racism?



Than it's just opinion, isn't it? What would you attribute the poverty rate among African-americans to, then? Oh, and have you never written a college paper? You do try to prove your thesis, do you not?

maybe they meant the Black mortality rate...


Its still not right

RESULTS. In this population, the infant mortality rate was 10.2 per 1000 live births for black infants and 5.4 per 1000 live births for white infants;

Source (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=1579135&dopt=Citation)

Than it's just opinion, isn't it? What would you attribute the poverty rate among African-americans to, then? Oh, and have you never written a college paper? You do try to prove your thesis, do you not?

Honestly, I have not yet written a college paper, as I am only a Freshman.

As far as my thought of the poverty levels, I believe location and values have standing in this topic.

Tell you what, South Islands. I couls supply evidence to prove my point, but somehow I get the feeling you'd just dismiss it as "biased". So, Why don't I leave this thread rather than start flaming you. Peace.

Tell you what, South Islands. I couls supply evidence to prove my point, but somehow I get the feeling you'd just dismiss it as "biased". So, Why don't I leave this thread rather than start flaming you. Peace.

Why would I?

If it is good information, from a reliable source, than I would have no reason to dismiss it as biased.

Please, humor me.

Ah tangents. All I have to say are these two words, "Minimum Wage." In 1996, minimum wage was $4.75 an hour, 1997 it was increased to $5.15. In the year 2005, some states still have minimum wage at $5.15. You tell me what is wrong there. Try this, making MW, at 40 hours a week, you won't make $230 a paycheck. Rent here, even for no frills, unfurnished apartments, it's $600 and more a month plus down payments and you have to pay the first 2 months in advance. 3/4 of your paycheck is gone from rent as-is. How do you live? The downward spiral goes from there. At least Jeb Bush was smart enough to increase the wage an extra measly dollar an hour. But we'll see the blow on our tax returns.

Ah tangents. All I have to say are these two words, "Minimum Wage." In 1996, minimum wage was $4.75 an hour, 1997 it was increased to $5.15. In the year 2005, some states still have minimum wage at $5.15. You tell me what is wrong there. Try this, making MW, at 40 hours a week, you won't make $230 a paycheck. Rent here, even for no frills, unfurnished apartments, it's $600 and more a month plus down payments and you have to pay the first 2 months in advance. 3/4 of your paycheck is gone from rent as-is. How do you live? The downward spiral goes from there. At least Jeb Bush was smart enough to increase the wage an extra measly dollar an hour. But we'll see the blow on our tax returns.

Now this is a blatant hijack!

Actually, I hope so. With all the built-up, pent-up anger I have towards the powerful in our society, and the mistreatment I, and people like me, have received at their hands, there is nothing I would like better than to join an angry mob and rip those assholes apart, literally, limb from limb, like you saw in 1920's China. And I'm serious when I say this. I want to hurt them like they have hurt me. I want to tear out their hearts (if they even have hearts anymore) in the same way they have torn out my heart and denied me a chance to realize my dreams.

I'm all for the revolution. I'll be the first to sign up if and when the revolution comes! DOWN WITH THE BOURGEOSIE!! POWER TO THE PROLETARIAT!!


:rolleyes: Right, because "the powerful" in this country ripped you apart, literally, limb from limb?

Don't think so.

And how is it you have all this time and opportunity to rant and rave online but you're just as poor as a 1920s Chinaman? I smell a fish, and it's a bourgeoise white American playing martyr again and - surprisingly, since America is such a peaceful country and all - advocating mindless violence.

People like you exemplify everything I hate about the gimme-gimme socialists and wannabe communist "proles" who have everything handed to them, fuck it up and then blame anyone who didn't fuck up.

I'm sick of people like you.

Mortality among infants of black as compared with white college-educated parents.

I think that clearly shows how biased the population that the sample was drawn from is. You are taking blacks in general and comparing to to college-educated whites. Of course the college-educated are going to have an edge regardless of race because they will also likely have a better job thanks to their extra education. Already this subject is biased and I refuse to accept its findings since there are lurking variables which could throw off the results of the analysis.

I view with suspicion any condemnations coming from the UN:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-0509080172sep08,1,3686073.story?coll=chi-newsnationworld-hed&ctrack=1&cset=true
http://www.washtimes.com/world/20050907-113942-1008r.htm
http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/africa/01/09/congo.peacekeepers.sex/
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/4697465.stm
http://www.un.org/documents/ga/docs/56/a5679.pdf

Enough said.

*Cough* Propoganda *Cough*

Anyway, as for whoever it was who asked whether it was the politicians or the people who had failed, it's the politicians. They're the ones who are supposed to be representing the people's interests, not filling their own pockets. Hell, your entire government needs a total overhaul. I'm Canadian, and I like how our government works. Our voting system, for the most part, seems to give us ALOT more options to choose who we want to run our country. Obviously this makes it more likely that we'll find someone who knows what they're doing. I'm not saying that our system is perfect, we have enough corruption to deal with either way. But at least our leaders aren't starting wars for oil and leaving people stranded in a flooded wasteland for several days.

*Edit* Yeah, ummm... you may need to go back to the first page to find what I'm talking about. I didn't realize that this topic was 6 pages long :P

:rolleyes: Right, because "the powerful" in this country ripped you apart, literally, limb from limb?

Don't think so.

And how is it you have all this time and opportunity to rant and rave online but you're just as poor as a 1920s Chinaman? I smell a fish, and it's a bourgeoise white American playing martyr again and - surprisingly, since America is such a peaceful country and all - advocating mindless violence.

People like you exemplify everything I hate about the gimme-gimme socialists and wannabe communist "proles" who have everything handed to them, fuck it up and then blame anyone who didn't fuck up.

I'm sick of people like you.

"How do you tell a communist? Well, it's someone who reads Marx and Lenin. And how do you tell an anti-Communist? It's someone who understands Marx and Lenin. "
--Ronald Reagan

I think that clearly shows how biased the population that the sample was drawn from is. You are taking blacks in general and comparing to to college-educated whites. Of course the college-educated are going to have an edge regardless of race because they will also likely have a better job thanks to their extra education. Already this subject is biased and I refuse to accept its findings since there are lurking variables which could throw off the results of the analysis.

You misunderstand the point I was trying to make. I was responding to OceanDrive's point about the comparison of Malaysian IMR when compared to Black American IMR. That was the only point I was trying to make. It was the first thing that came up in my google search. The stuff about white people was just bonus.

So you want to take everything away from the people who worked hard to build a company? Why? Is it simply for the fact that they make more money than you? Or that they have a better job? (or for that case better education) Also how did they hurt you and take away your dreams anyway you crazy piece of shit? Everybody has the chance to improve in sicial standing in America. You just need to do something called work.

Yeah? And just how am I supposed to do that when the fuckers won't give me a goddamn job, because they want to discriminate against me? You know, I belong to what may well be the last group of people it is, in most places, still legal...and acceptable to most people...to discriminate against!! The percentage of my people who are un and or under-employed is currently seventy fucking percent!

I'd happily work if the fuckers would give me a job that I'm perfectly capable of doing, and I'd have one, too, if it weren;t for fucking discrimination!

That's why I want to rip the bastard's hearts out! Trust me, you'd feel the same way if it were YOU on the receiving end of discrimination!

Yeah? And just how am I supposed to do that when the fuckers won't give me a goddamn job, because they want to discriminate against me? You know, I belong to what may well be the last group of people it is, in most places, still legal...and acceptable to most people...to discriminate against!! The percentage of my people who are un and or under-employed is currently seventy fucking percent!

I'd happily work if the fuckers would give me a job that I'm perfectly capable of doing, and I'd have one, too, if it weren;t for fucking discrimination!

That's why I want to rip the bastard's hearts out! Trust me, you'd feel the same way if it were YOU on the receiving end of discrimination!

Perhaps you could start your own company?

*Cough* Propoganda *Cough*

Anyway, as for whoever it was who asked whether it was the politicians or the people who had failed, it's the politicians. They're the ones who are supposed to be representing the people's interests, not filling their own pockets. Hell, your entire government needs a total overhaul. I'm Canadian, and I like how our government works. Our voting system, for the most part, seems to give us ALOT more options to choose who we want to run our country. Obviously this makes it more likely that we'll find someone who knows what they're doing. I'm not saying that our system is perfect, we have enough corruption to deal with either way. But at least our leaders aren't starting wars for oil and leaving people stranded in a flooded wasteland for several days.

Yes yes, Iraq is all about oil, that is the only reason we invaded. We wanted to secure a future source of oil and lower the prices of Gasoline. Interesting, Canada's oil deposits are second only to Saudi Arabia's, watch out buddy, your next.

:rolleyes: Right, because "the powerful" in this country ripped you apart, literally, limb from limb?

Don't think so.

And how is it you have all this time and opportunity to rant and rave online but you're just as poor as a 1920s Chinaman? I smell a fish, and it's a bourgeoise white American playing martyr again and - surprisingly, since America is such a peaceful country and all - advocating mindless violence.

People like you exemplify everything I hate about the gimme-gimme socialists and wannabe communist "proles" who have everything handed to them, fuck it up and then blame anyone who didn't fuck up.

I'm sick of people like you.

Why do I have time? i'll tell you why!! Because no one will give me a fucking job, and the only reason they won't is because I am a transsexual! No other reason! Discrimination, pure and simple! and it's pissing me the fuck off!

Thanks to fucking discrimination, I had to move back home with Mommy, at age 34, a complete and total failure at life! I just thank God my mom was willing to take me in. That answer your fucking questions about how I have time...or a computer...or anything else to rant about this on??

I have literally lost just about every motherfucking materical possession I ever acquired, had to pawn most of it off to make ends meet, and when I finally had nothing left, I had to go home with my tail between my legs, and I'm fucking pissed off about it!! You got a problem with me being pissed off with society in general?? Try walking a fucking mile in my shoes, first, and see how pissed you'd be...THEN judge me. Until then, you can keep it to yourself!

Why do I have time? i'll tell you why!! Because no one will give me a fucking job, and the only reason they won't is because I am a transsexual! No other reason! Discrimination, pure and simple! and it's pissing me the fuck off!

Thanks to fucking discrimination, I had to move back home with Mommy, at age 34, a complete and total failure at life! I just thank God my mom was willing to take me in. That answer your fucking questions about how I have time...or a computer...or anything else to rant about this on??

I have literally lost just about every motherfucking materical possession I ever acquired, had to pawn most of it off to make ends meet, and when I finally had nothing left, I had to go home with my tail between my legs, and I'm fucking pissed off about it!! You got a problem with me being pissed off with society in general?? Try walking a fucking mile in my shoes, first, and see how pissed you'd be...THEN judge me. Until then, you can keep it to yourself!

Could you please clarify for some of us what transgenered is? I have a general idea of what it might be but do not want to make any assumptions.

Why do I have time? i'll tell you why!! Because no one will give me a fucking job, and the only reason they won't is because I am a transsexual! No other reason! Discrimination, pure and simple! and it's pissing me the fuck off!

Thanks to fucking discrimination, I had to move back home with Mommy, at age 34, a complete and total failure at life! I just thank God my mom was willing to take me in. That answer your fucking questions about how I have time...or a computer...or anything else to rant about this on??

I have literally lost just about every motherfucking materical possession I ever acquired, had to pawn most of it off to make ends meet, and when I finally had nothing left, I had to go home with my tail between my legs, and I'm fucking pissed off about it!! You got a problem with me being pissed off with society in general?? Try walking a fucking mile in my shoes, first, and see how pissed you'd be...THEN judge me. Until then, you can keep it to yourself!

He has the right to say what he wishes. You wish to deny economic, and now social freedoms, too?

Perhaps you could start your own company?
With what start-up capital? Doing what? If people won't even give me a fucking JOB, what the hell makes you think they will give any company I would represent a contract to do any kind of work that would make me money? Even if I could, somehow, manage to start my own company...I'd still have to go out and represent the company and find clients to give my company work to do...something to PRODUCE!! And what the hell makes you think they will give my company that...if they already won't give me a fucking JOB??

With what start-up capital? Doing what? If people won't even give me a fucking JOB, what the hell makes you think they will give any company I would represent a contract to do any kind of work that would make me money? Even if I could, somehow, manage to start my own company...I'd still have to go out and represent the company and find clients to give my company work to do...something to PRODUCE!! And what the hell makes you think they will give my company that...if they already won't give me a fucking JOB??

Have you tried to get government grants?

Could you please clarify for some of us what transgenered is? I have a general idea of what it might be but do not want to make any assumptions.

Well, to be basic about it...I was born with a male-appearing body, and never felt right in it. I had an operation. Does that answer your question?

Now, if you want to go into details about how and why, I refuse to hijack this thread. If you want to know, you can TG me. All legitimate, respectful, intelligent questions will be answered at my discretion. Ignorant assholic questions, however, will be ignored.

He has the right to say what he wishes. You wish to deny economic, and now social freedoms, too?

No....but until he's walked a mile in my shoes, he can keep his fucking judgements about me to himself, because I don't want to hear them! Let him first walk a mile in my shoes before he starts judging me.

With what start-up capital? Doing what? If people won't even give me a fucking JOB, what the hell makes you think they will give any company I would represent a contract to do any kind of work that would make me money? Even if I could, somehow, manage to start my own company...I'd still have to go out and represent the company and find clients to give my company work to do...something to PRODUCE!! And what the hell makes you think they will give my company that...if they already won't give me a fucking JOB??

Loans, individual investors, Governemnt grants ( as others have mentioned), there are dozens of ways to find start up capital.

You seem to be good with computers. There are hundereds of different ways to be profitiable with computers.

Question, how do prospective employers know you are a transvestite?

Well, to be basic about it...I was born with a male-appearing body, and never felt right in it. I had an operation. Does that answer your question?

Now, if you want to go into details about how and why, I refuse to hijack this thread. If you want to know, you can TG me. All legitimate, respectful, intelligent questions will be answered at my discretion. Ignorant assholic questions, however, will be ignored.

My questions would be the latter so I don't think I will bother. I uhhh, yeah. I think I better just stop right there.

Have you tried to get government grants?

For WHAT?!!? In the end, I still need someone to give me a contract for work to actually PRODUCE!!! and if they already won't give me a JOB, what the hell makes you think they will give my company a contract to produce a product for them...even assuming I could get such a business launched, since I'm as poor as a churchmouse, with barely a fucking penny to my name?!!?

Jeebus Christ, don't you READ?!!?

For WHAT?!!? In the end, I still need someone to give me a contract for work to actually PRODUCE!!! and if they already won't give me a JOB, what the hell makes you think they will give my company a contract to produce a product for them...even assuming I could get such a business launched, since I'm as poor as a churchmouse, with barely a fucking penny to my name?!!?

Jeebus Christ, don't you READ?!!?

For the love of christ are you that self absorbed that you cant even take a suggestion into consideration without exploding. You get a grant and you could start your own buisness or whatever else the government is offering them for. God you sit here wallowing in self pitty instead of getting up and doing something. Like south said get a loan look for individual investors WHATEVER THE HELL YOU HAVE TO DO TO GET IT DONE. If you sit here and say I'll never do any of this because I dont have money or because people discriminate against me you've already given up and shouldnt be complaining in the first place.

Loans, individual investors, Governemnt grants ( as others have mentioned), there are dozens of ways to find start up capital.

You seem to be good with computers. There are hundereds of different ways to be profitiable with computers.

Question, how do prospective employers know you are a transvestite?

1. I am not a transvestite. I am a transsexual. This is a whole different ball of wax.
2. How do they know? Simple, really. Because of things loike background checks, criminal record checks, and creit-report checks in the pre-employment phase...they can come across my former name, and it does not exactly take a fucking rocket scientist to figure out what is going on when Jacob changes to Melanie! (No those are not my actual former or current names!) Plus, often, you are compelled to reveal former names for the purposes of said background checks. I don't get to keep my private business private. I'm not allowed to!
3. Once again, we are back to the same basic problem...in the end, I still need a CUSTOMER...or CUSTOMERS...to give me something to actually produce! And if they already won't give me a fucking JOB because of discrimination, what the HELL makes you think they are going to give my business any patronage?

Jeebus Christ, you sure seem to have all the answers...until someone piles a ton of ugly fact on it for you!!

For WHAT?!!? In the end, I still need someone to give me a contract for work to actually PRODUCE!!! and if they already won't give me a JOB, what the hell makes you think they will give my company a contract to produce a product for them...even assuming I could get such a business launched, since I'm as poor as a churchmouse, with barely a fucking penny to my name?!!?

Jeebus Christ, don't you READ?!!?

Some of us just can't possibly understand things from your point of view, at all. I don't want to sound like a dick but perhaps you should try to move to San Francisco, I know someone who lives there and he says it is a pretty tolerant city not exactly like it has a reputation of being full of racists or bigots.

1. I am not a transvestite. I am a transsexual. This is a whole different ball of wax.
2. How do they know? Simple, really. Because of things loike background checks, criminal record checks, and creit-report checks in the pre-employment phase...they can come across my former name, and it does not exactly take a fucking rocket scientist to figure out what is going on when Jacob changes to Melanie! (No those are not my actual former or current names!) Plus, often, you are compelled to reveal former names for the purposes of said background checks. I don't get to keep my private business private. I'm not allowed to!
3. Once again, we are back to the same basic problem...in the end, I still need a CUSTOMER...or CUSTOMERS...to give me something to actually produce! And if they already won't give me a fucking JOB because of discrimination, what the HELL makes you think they are going to give my business any patronage?

Jeebus Christ, you sure seem to have all the answers...until someone piles a ton of ugly fact on it for you!!

You can be anyone you want to be on the internet. If you sold your products on some sort of internet sales site, like Ebay for example nobody has to know anything about you. You could claim to be a 19 year old, seven foot tall, blonde Swede if you truly wanted and most people would believe you, mainly because they would want to.

My questions would be the latter so I don't think I will bother. I uhhh, yeah. I think I better just stop right there.

I gathered as much. Most people's quaetions ARE of the ignorant, assholic variety. why do you think I'm so pissed off with the world in general, and just about everyone in it, in particular?!?

Because I get treated like a sub-human piece of shit! Because I get treated as if I'm not WORTHY of life! Well, hell, what would you call it when someone denies you the ability to earn a living for no better reason than pure mean-spiritedness, hatred, bigotry, and prejudice?? Obviously, they think I am not worthy of life! You'd be awful goddamn pissed off if you knew that most people felt that way about you...and used it to keep you oppressed and down...if you knew people used it, in effect, to murder you! No, they aren't coming at me with a gun or a knife, but they might as well! They are murdering me by depriving me a chance to EARN a living for myself.

You tend to hate the people who want to see you dead. It's pretty universal, don't you think?

For the love of christ are you that self absorbed that you cant even take a suggestion into consideration without exploding. You get a grant and you could start your own buisness or whatever else the government is offering them for. God you sit here wallowing in self pitty instead of getting up and doing something. Like south said get a loan look for individual investors WHATEVER THE HELL YOU HAVE TO DO TO GET IT DONE. If you sit here and say I'll never do any of this because I dont have money or because people discriminate against me you've already given up and shouldnt be complaining in the first place.

All right, I will try it again...

IF THEY ALREADY WON'T GIVE ME A JOB, WHAT MAKES YOU THINK THEY WILL GIVE MY COMPANY BUSINESS!?!?!
EVEN ASSUMING I COULD GET SUCH A COMPANY STARTED, SINCE I HAVE ABSOLUTELY NOTHING?!?!

Does it sink in yet?!?!

Why do I have time? i'll tell you why!! Because no one will give me a fucking job, and the only reason they won't is because I am a transsexual! No other reason! Discrimination, pure and simple! and it's pissing me the fuck off!

Yeah. It couldn't be because of your wonderful attitude. I mean I know *I* want to hire someone who assumes I'm inherently evil (being powerful) and wants to RIP ME LIMB FROM LIMB. Who wouldn't?

Thanks to fucking discrimination, I had to move back home with Mommy, at age 34, a complete and total failure at life! I just thank God my mom was willing to take me in. That answer your fucking questions about how I have time...or a computer...or anything else to rant about this on??

Ah I see. And proles in China in 1920 could go back to their well to do parents and chat it up on a computer, on the internet, with electricity and running water and freedom of speech. Excuse me while I realize just how oppressed you are and how obviously needing of a bloody revolution this country is!

You got a problem with me being pissed off with society in general?? Try walking a fucking mile in my shoes, first, and see how pissed you'd be...THEN judge me. Until then, you can keep it to yourself!

Every single post I've EVER seen you make is full of anger. And I know you've been posting here for two and a half, three years or more. It sounds like you have emotional problems beyond being the innocent victim you claim you are. And yeah, I do have a problem with people advocating mindless mob violence and destruction of peace and of America itself. I happen to enjoy freedom from angry mobs, it's why I'm not an anarchist.

You obviously think you have it so tough, but you're not whoring yourself out to Yanqui tourists, wearing ratty threads found washed up on a beach, eating rats in the gutter, with no education or skills or hope of anything better. You're no proletariat and you've really no basis for comparison. Compared to many if not most people in poverty on this planet, you're living like a fucking king. So you might want to consider other people have it much, much worse before you dangle your legs on that cross there.

Some of us just can't possibly understand things from your point of view, at all. I don't want to sound like a dick but perhaps you should try to move to San Francisco, I know someone who lives there and he says it is a pretty tolerant city not exactly like it has a reputation of being full of racists or bigots.

Move to San Francisco on what? Have I not already said I'm BROKE?!?!

I live in Pennsylvania right now, with my mother! And just how am I supposed to get 3,000 miles on nothing?!? and just how am I supposed to find housing out there on nothing until I GET a job?!?!

And, more to the point, WHY THE FUCK SHOULD I HAVE TO MOVE?!!? WHY THE HELL CAN'T PEOPLE JUST GET MORE TOLERANT, AND BE LESS ASSHOLISH WHERE I CURRENTLY AM!?!??!

I gathered as much. Most people's quaetions ARE of the ignorant, assholic variety. why do you think I'm so pissed off with the world in general, and just about everyone in it, in particular?!?

Because I get treated like a sub-human piece of shit! Because I get treated as if I'm not WORTHY of life! Well, hell, what would you call it when someone denies you the ability to earn a living for no better reason than pure mean-spiritedness, hatred, bigotry, and prejudice?? Obviously, they think I am not worthy of life! You'd be awful goddamn pissed off if you knew that most people felt that way about you...and used it to keep you oppressed and down...if you knew people used it, in effect, to murder you! No, they aren't coming at me with a gun or a knife, but they might as well! They are murdering me by depriving me a chance to EARN a living for myself.

You tend to hate the people who want to see you dead. It's pretty universal, don't you think?

OK, Calm down.

I'm sorry you cannot make a living. I am sorry that everyone disrespects you for being a transsexual. But, We DO NOT CARE here.

Please, try not to transfer your anger at the world to those that are here, and are trying to be nice to you.

All right, I will try it again...

IF THEY ALREADY WON'T GIVE ME A JOB, WHAT MAKES YOU THINK THEY WILL GIVE MY COMPANY BUSINESS!?!?!
EVEN ASSUMING I COULD GET SUCH A COMPANY STARTED, SINCE I HAVE ABSOLUTELY NOTHING?!?!

Does it sink in yet?!?!

1. I assume that people will give your company business because not everyone is a closed minded individual.
2. As I mentioned earlier GOVERNMENT GRANTS.

Does it sink in yet?!?!

You obviously think you have it so tough, but you're not whoring yourself out to Yanqui tourists, wearing ratty threads found washed up on a beach, eating rats in the gutter, with no education or skills or hope of anything better. You're no proletariat and you've really no basis for comparison. Compared to many if not most people in poverty on this planet, you're living like a fucking king. So you might want to consider other people have it much, much worse before you dangle your legs on that cross there.

Yeah, and the only reason I'm NOT doing that is because my mom was willing to take me in. If not for that, that is EXACTLY where I'd be. Or I'd be dead in a ditch. Not that you would ever give a shit. Why should you? Just another piece of human garbage who deserved nothing better, right?

OK, Calm down.

I'm sorry you cannot make a living. I am sorry that everyone disrespects you for being a transsexual. But, We DO NOT CARE here.

Please, try not to transfer your anger at the world to those that are here, and are trying to be nice to you.

I'm sorry, but it angers me when people come up with brilliant answers to my problems...and fail to acknowledge that their brilliant ideas are unworkable or unmanageable for one reason or another! And then they blame ME because their brilliant idea won't work. If they'd bothered to READ in the first place, they'd already know the situation, and WHY their idea won't work.

All right, I will try it again...

IF THEY ALREADY WON'T GIVE ME A JOB, WHAT MAKES YOU THINK THEY WILL GIVE MY COMPANY BUSINESS!?!?!
EVEN ASSUMING I COULD GET SUCH A COMPANY STARTED, SINCE I HAVE ABSOLUTELY NOTHING?!?!

Does it sink in yet?!?!
'Course, if all transsexuals are being discriminated against, then that leaves a large number of transexuals looking for A)Employment and B) Service.
Stiff Ass Johnny CEO may not be a viable customer, but I imagine that people in your situation (and those sympathetic) would be more than willing to be your customer.
That said, it sucks that you have trouble finding employment (though I seriously doubt it is because people want you dead). I do believe that a company should hire the best qualified though. Regardless of race, creed, etc. (Note: This goes both ways. Quotas are...a poor idea.)

I also can't help but wonder if perhaps your anger is effecting any job interviews. Afterall, if you go in angry and/or convinced you'll fail...you probably will.

1. I assume that people will give your company business because not everyone is a closed minded individual.
2. As I mentioned earlier GOVERNMENT GRANTS.

Does it sink in yet?!?!
1. I would assume then, that someone would give me a job, but you don't see me working, so I have to assume that pretty much everyone IS a closed minded individual.

2. want to actually tell someone how they even go about getting them...even assuming I could qualify?

3. Have you ever suffered from depression? I am so deep in the hole because of the way my life has turned out that I may never get out of the goddam hole, and I am lashing out now only because I cannot lasgh out at those who have genuinely hurt me.

And, I'm sorry, but I DO WANT TO HURT THEM BACK!! I want to hurt them every bit as bad as they have hurt me. I want them to know what it feels like! I want to get even with them! I want to fuck their world, like they fucked my world! You'd feel the same.

I'm sorry, but it angers me when people come up with brilliant answers to my problems...and fail to acknowledge that their brilliant ideas are unworkable or unmanageable for one reason or another! And then they blame ME because their brilliant idea won't work. If they'd bothered to READ in the first place, they'd already know the situation, and WHY their idea won't work.

Ok, that's fine. I understand your anger. I have been shunned and outcast many times in my life. But, the glory of NS general, is that people DO NOT CARE who you are, or what you are, or where you come from. We don't care. And, we don't know.

The reason so many people are giving you crapis because you come off as someone that is angry at everything for no apparent reason. Many of your posts seem like a rant.

Please, try to calm youself, and explain why these ideas cannot work.

Yeah, and the only reason I'm NOT doing that is because my mom was willing to take me in. If not for that, that is EXACTLY where I'd be. Or I'd be dead in a ditch. Not that you would ever give a shit. Why should you? Just another piece of human garbage who deserved nothing better, right?

That is STILL not where you'd be. Though I admit it wouldn't be pleasant to live on the streets, its a lot better in the US of A then it is in - for example - many countries in Africa.

As for me not giving a shit, well it's hard to be sympathetic with you since you're always at everyone's throats. I mean if the last ten posts are indicative of how you go about getting sympathy it should be no wonder why you aren't getting any. (And NS is about the last place anyone should look for sympathy, really.)

'Course, if all transsexuals are being discriminated against, then that leaves a large number of transexuals looking for A)Employment and B) Service.
Stiff Ass Johnny CEO may not be a viable customer, but I imagine that people in your situation (and those sympathetic) would be more than willing to be your customer.
That said, it sucks that you have trouble finding employment (though I seriously doubt it is because people want you dead). I do believe that a company should hire the best qualified though. Regardless of race, creed, etc. (Note: This goes both ways. Quotas are...a poor idea.)

I also can't help but wonder if perhaps your anger is effecting any job interviews. Afterall, if you go in angry and/or convinced you'll fail...you probably will.
I try very hard not to show it, but I DO tend to go in with the notion that they are not likely to hire me...why should they?? After all, no one else will, either? what makes this place any different from the hundred I've been to already? They'll make some shit excuse, and not hire me, they will never cop to the real reason, but we both will know the real reason I duidn't get the job.

Yeah, I go in with that feeling, but I try damn hard not to show that is what I am feeling.

You'd feel it too, if you were in my place.

And, I'm sorry, but I DO WANT TO HURT THEM BACK!! I want to hurt them every bit as bad as they have hurt me. I want them to know what it feels like! I want to get even with them! I want to fuck their world, like they fucked my world! You'd feel the same.
And this is probably part of why you have difficulty getting a job.
This anger, this ire, can very easily affect your behavior, concious and otherwise. And when you try for a job, if it ever comes to an interview, body language can make or break your chances. If your employer gets bad vibes from you, they'll be hesitant to hire you.

What job's are you trying for btw.

Ok, that's fine. I understand your anger. I have been shunned and outcast many times in my life. But, the glory of NS general, is that people DO NOT CARE who you are, or what you are, or where you come from. We don't care. And, we don't know.

The reason so many people are giving you crapis because you come off as someone that is angry at everything for no apparent reason. Many of your posts seem like a rant.

Please, try to calm youself, and explain why these ideas cannot work.
I have already tried that and people do not listen. so why should I go thru it again?

If people already will not give me a job...what on EARTH makes you think they would give my company business? I still would have to go meet prospective clients face to face. And if I already can't convince them to give me a shitty job, what makes you think I can convince them to give my company business? It is not as easy as you might like to think it is, you know!

I know this doesn't come as a big shock to a lot of people here, but I am not exactly a people person. I honestly do not like people. I feel like every person on the face of the planet has either betrayed me, or is plotting to. Paranoid, right? But you'd feel the same, after repeated discrimination!

1. I would assume then, that someone would give me a job, but you don't see me working, so I have to assume that pretty much everyone IS a closed minded individual.
No I dont see you working because I DONT EVEN KNOW YOU. I mean come on you and I both know not everyone is a closed minded individual. Just because some jackasses decide not to hire you it does not mean you get to label everyone else because of it. Thats how shit like racism starts.

2. want to actually tell someone how they even go about getting them...even assuming I could qualify?
You know what while I'm at it why don't I fill out your paper work, do all your interviews, and make you a resume. YOUR ON THE FREAKING INTERNET LOOK IT UP YOURSELF.

3. Have you ever suffered from depression? I am so deep in the hole because of the way my life has turned out that I may never get out of the goddam hole, and I am lashing out now only because I cannot lasgh out at those who have genuinely hurt me.
Then go see a psychiatrist because honestly if your this bad off you need to get help. If you can't talk to friends or family then a doctor wouldnt be half bad. But you wont help yourself by just sitting around.

And, I'm sorry, but I DO WANT TO HURT THEM BACK!! I want to hurt them every bit as bad as they have hurt me. I want them to know what it feels like! I want to get even with them! I want to fuck their world, like they fucked my world! You'd feel the same.
No I wouldn't. I'm not bitter nor am I vindictive towards those who have hurt me. I can understand feeling like a victim after this but that is just to freaking far to go. I seriously think you should get help wheter that help is talking to someone you know, going to a support group, or seeing a doctor.

I'm going to bed for now.

Pissed off as usual.

Wishing I wouldn't wake up in the morning.

Not wanting to spend another day on this miserable hunk of cold rock where people don't give a shit about others.

Does anyone get it yet?

I have already tried that and people do not listen. so why should I go thru it again?

If people already will not give me a job...what on EARTH makes you think they would give my company business? I still would have to go meet prospective clients face to face. And if I already can't convince them to give me a shitty job, what makes you think I can convince them to give my company business? It is not as easy as you might like to think it is, you know!

I know this doesn't come as a big shock to a lot of people here, but I am not exactly a people person. I honestly do not like people. I feel like every person on the face of the planet has either betrayed me, or is plotting to. Paranoid, right? But you'd feel the same, after repeated discrimination!

You don't HAVE to work with other companies! Hell, start an at home company selling pies!

The point is, you are looking at a very small picture of capitalism. Everyone is a consumer, everyone is looking to buy. You can sell and infanite variety of products.

You need investment? Hell, I'll invest in you! If you want, contact me.

I mean it.

Then go see a psychiatrist because honestly if your this bad off you need to get help. If you can't talk to friends or family then a doctor wouldnt be half bad. But you wont help yourself by just sitting around.


No I wouldn't. I'm not bitter nor am I vindictive towards those who have hurt me. I can understand feeling like a victim after this but that is just to freaking far to go. I seriously think you should get help wheter that help is talking to someone you know, going to a support group, or seeing a doctor.

agian...WITH WHAT MONEY!?!? Do you think a doctor is going to help me just because I need help and cannot pay?
And I don't qualify for any government help as far as medical anything, because the household income is too high, because my mom makes a lot of money.

agian...WITH WHAT MONEY!?!? Do you think a doctor is going to help me just because I need help and cannot pay?
And I don't qualify for any government help as far as medical anything, because the household income is too high, because my mom makes a lot of money.

Take out a freaking loan, find a support group, ask your mother for money. Do anything just stop sitting here and typing out your feelings on NS thinking anyones going to give a damn and magically solve the freaking problem.

1. I would assume then, that someone would give me a job, but you don't see me working, so I have to assume that pretty much everyone IS a closed minded individual.

2. want to actually tell someone how they even go about getting them...even assuming I could qualify?

3. Have you ever suffered from depression? I am so deep in the hole because of the way my life has turned out that I may never get out of the goddam hole, and I am lashing out now only because I cannot lasgh out at those who have genuinely hurt me.

And, I'm sorry, but I DO WANT TO HURT THEM BACK!! I want to hurt them every bit as bad as they have hurt me. I want them to know what it feels like! I want to get even with them! I want to fuck their world, like they fucked my world! You'd feel the same.

I think I have some understanding of how you feel. Forgive me if I wax
wax poetic, but...reading my work at

http://www.nls.net/mp/413/mofia.htm

might enable you to decide whether or not I am capable of the kind of
anger that you are.

I've been unemployed for long stretches despite a decent college education
and good job skills. It's part me, but it's also part of the culture that one
finds in the Information Technology field, where my skills lie.

In IT, a PROGRAM is an asset to a company; however, a PROGRAMMER is a
liability. The PROGRAM does things; the PROGRAMMER collects a salary.

Right now, I'm between calls at a Cable TV company, providing tech support
for their high-speed internet. Not what I envisioned after a college degree
and over 15 years of experience. Mind you, I'm glad that the company I
work for is giving me a chance to earn a living. I have no beef with them.
I can't stand the right-wing attitude in the industry, though.

Yes, I've got some anger. It comes from working hard only to have people
tell me to my face that my work means nothing.

I also, however, have a strong moral sense. I never learned system cracking
skills because I know about the temper that runs in my family. If I had, I
can already tell you that the City of Detroit Hospital system would be fouled
up and I'd be in jail now.

The problem is that, if you let 'em get away with mistreating YOU, there's no
saying that they won't start doing it full-time to OTHERS. It's like appeasing
a fascist--and we all know what happens when you do THAT.

So I'm stuck here quietly fuming and branching out into other fields because
I can't stand what those bastards have done and are still doing, and don't
have the means to provide the corrective "therapy" (Bush Administration,
eat your heart out) that the situation warrants. Quite frankly, I don't see
any legal way to head off the horrors that I forsee if things continue as they
are.

Best of luck--and I hope that things work out for you.

Well, I'm an American. A white American. An unemployed, uninsured white American. I have been un- or under-employed now for the past year and a half. Why? Because the economy sucks, and, because I am transgender...we are the first to be thrown on the shit heap when bad economic times come...and the last to be pulled off the same shit heap when the economic times become good once again.
Fully 70 percent of transgender Americans are un- or under-employed. Isn't discrimination lovely? Ain't America great? I certainly agree with one thing...The America Dream is, for most of us, unobtainable...unless we were born into it. It's a nightmare for most of us, forever dangling under our noses that which is forever beyond our reach. We are the first generation of Americans who will not do at least as well as our parents did. Thanks to the robber barons of the current era!

Fuck you, Walton Family!!

*climbs up onto the same heap* Unemployed, uninsured, unable to recieve social services support, simply because I'm a felon, on probation, that never served jail time. Thank's uncle sugar!!!

I left the US and moved to Sweden for this exact reason. The US doesn't think about it's population, it thinks about the 10% of the richest of them. There is no money spent to educate anyone, or keep them healthy, or help them do anything. The entire system is based on making EVERYONE either get lucky breaks or be born into the right family. What happens if you aren't born into a rich family? You can't go to college, you can't afford healthcare because of the hikes in price due to the insurance companies ripping each other off, forget being able to get to the dentist or have your only form of transportation maintained since you are forced to have a car because there's not a single city in the whole country that has an acceptable level of public transport.

It's called quality of life, and the way the US economy works at the moment there are more than a dozen countries around the world whose citizens are overall in a better place. It's really difficult for me to understand how someone could justify screwing the vast majority of the population and then call themselves the best country on the planet in the same breath. Think about your children! I want my daughter to have an education, but I don't want her to be paying off a student loan when she's 50, like my father is. I want her to go to the dentist, and in America I'd need a really good job to get insurance through it - otherwise I'm sacrificing food, or the electric bill.

It's not anti-american, it's the truth. The US government is negligent and something needs to be done. But I don't have to worry about it anymore, I'm finally in a place where people are most important.

*sigh* Now that I've read thru these posts, just a few of my opinions (that's all they are, if they are based on fact, I'll share them, and believe me I'm not here for this flame war bullshite that seems to pop up every five posts or so)

#1 - until you've slept on concrete, do not say you understand. You couldn't possibly begin to understand, nor do I believe you'd even try. To those of you that have, I need not continue this point.

Our social system, while a wondeful thing (helping those seriously less fortunate, or unable to persue active work, is a good thing, in my opinion), it does need an overhaul.

But until you've: stood in that line for three hours, filled out the six forms they give you, stand in line another hour to hand the forms in, set back down and wait an hour, go in and discuss the fact you're not addicted to drugs and alcohol nor are you suicidal, go back out and wait another half hour, talk to someone who makes you sign five forms then hands you three sheets and sets you up two appointments outside of the DSS offices and one more back there in 48 hours, sends you back out to sit another 20 minutes to an hour, then you speak to an 'employment counselor' who tells you that without a car, there's not really any jobs available to you, then sends you on your way, you don't understand .
Getting public assitance, be it food stamps, housing assitance, welfare (aka cash benefits) or any of the other programs, is damn near impossible for a single person, reguardless of color or sex.
Now, if by some chance you go to both of those meetings set for you for the following two days, put in five job applications (when you live in an area that doesn't even have five businesses), and return to the DSS offices, you wait another two hours, then they tell you you have 45 days to wait before they make a decision. Ever waited 45 days for money to pay your rent, buy your food, maybe figure out a cheap vehicle to find a job in another part of your state? And that's IF they approve you. Which, they don't always do.

With that skewed logic stated, they have many more programs available for single parents, as well as families, but even these do not fully cover the basic necessities of life, even if one or both of the parents are working.

#2 - Racism/Discrimination in social services - If you disbelieve that race or other factors doesn't play a part in the ecconomy, you're sorely mistaken. If you start out in a family that's on welfare, odds are you'll be on welfare when you reach an age to live on your own. Now, while there are many government programs that give to disadvantaged youths for college educations, check the guidelines. Normally, it's a maximum of $35,000 yearly family income. If you come from a family of five, that's fine. But if you come from a family of three (mother, father, and you) odds are you won't qualify, even if your family is recieving public assistance. And while there are many college loan programs available thru state and federal programs, most of these also assess what your family makes, and deems their interest rates accordingly. Also, race plays a part when going thru your state labor department, sad as that is to say. Whites tend to end up with more office jobs, while blacks are given more factory jobs, thusly showing a pay difference.

#3 - Our government cuts programs that fix these problems. Nothing more to say there, and while it's being done to 'lower taxes', it's causing a serious rift between income levels as well as class distinction.

Short and sweet, I love America, I really do. She's a place I'd die for, would help out in any way I could. But she's heading down a path of disaster, similar to the Great Depression of the 1930's, and with no FDR in sight, it could be a sad time for our nation indeed. While the people need to be held accountable for our actions (and face it, kids, we do), our government also needs to be held equally accountable, as they're the shepards to our flock, given the staff for our safety, to be used to either fend off predators, or help tend the flock back to shelter. Time to stop fending, and time to start tending.

(thank you for your time)

But she's heading down a path of disaster, similar to the Great Depression of the 1930's, and with no FDR in sight, it could be a sad time for our nation indeed. While the people need to be held accountable for our actions (and face it, kids, we do), our government also needs to be held equally accountable, as they're the shepards to our flock, given the staff for our safety, to be used to either fend off predators, or help tend the flock back to shelter. Time to stop fending, and time to start tending.

(thank you for your time)

No, no, no! FDR did not fix the Great Depression! The Kennedy's aren't the greatest family in America! Stop reading the weak high school history texts.

FDR tried to end a major recession with Keynesian theory. Granted, at that time it was experimental so I won't hold the attempt against him. But anyone who knows anything about economics knows that Keynesian policy actions can't fix such a problem. Admiral Yamamoto gave the American people far more jobs than Roosevelt ever did - the Depression actually began to worsen later in Roosevelt's presidency in 1939-40.

No, no, no! FDR did not fix the Great Depression! The Kennedy's aren't the greatest family in America! Stop reading the weak high school history texts.

FDR tried to end a major recession with Keynesian theory. Granted, at that time it was experimental so I won't hold the attempt against him. But anyone who knows anything about economics knows that Keynesian policy actions can't fix such a problem. Admiral Yamamoto gave the American people far more jobs than Roosevelt ever did - the Depression actually began to worsen later in Roosevelt's presidency in 1939-40.

I'd read something other than weak high school texts, but my parents made too much money for me to get government grants, too much for me to get anything but government loans, and too little to just send me.

Aside from that, you're right about Yamamoto, but the point of the FDR comment was more along the lines of 'president that acutally gave a shit about his people' not 'a president that will bail us out of ecconomic crisis by giving us jobs'. Creating jobs just plugs the hole, the dam is still gonna collapse. Sorry for the confusion :)

You don't HAVE to work with other companies! Hell, start an at home company selling pies!

The point is, you are looking at a very small picture of capitalism. Everyone is a consumer, everyone is looking to buy. You can sell and infanite variety of products.

You need investment? Hell, I'll invest in you! If you want, contact me.

I mean it.
Really? And just why would you invest in me? And doing what? And what type of return on your investment would you be looking for?

At the moment, of course, this is all hypothetical.

Just for once, I want to hear someone say "I believe in you."

By the way, that there is another of my theme songs...from a different thread..."I Believe In You" by Twisted Sister. Try reading the lyrics. I'll paste them below. This song coulda been written by me, because I have never found a song that better describes what I am feeling.

"I Believe In You"
by Twisted Sister

Why does no one seem to understand
That it's more than love i need
It's so hard to keep your faith alive
When nobody else believes

Oh i need someone there for me
Need someone who can see
Need someone to show me
Ohhhh, that they are there to help me fight
If i fall, to set me right
Someone there to hold the light

Won't someone say
I believe in you

It's so hard to do it all yourself
Fighting for your dreams alone
When the toy's upon the highest shelf
A child's tears soon become stone

Oh why does no one lend a hand
Why does no one understand
Why i need to make a stand
Ohhhh,it's so hard to carry on
When all your hope is gone
All your dreams have come undone

I need to hear
I believe in you

Why won't someone say these words
Are they really so absurd?
Must they always go unheard?
Ohhhh, if someone needed the light
I'd be there to help them fight
If they fell, i'd set them right

And then i'd say
I believe in you
Won't someone say i believe in you
I believe in you

Dastardly Stench']I think I have some understanding of how you feel. Forgive me if I wax
wax poetic, but...reading my work at

http://www.nls.net/mp/413/mofia.htm

might enable you to decide whether or not I am capable of the kind of
anger that you are.

I've been unemployed for long stretches despite a decent college education
and good job skills. It's part me, but it's also part of the culture that one
finds in the Information Technology field, where my skills lie.

In IT, a PROGRAM is an asset to a company; however, a PROGRAMMER is a
liability. The PROGRAM does things; the PROGRAMMER collects a salary.

Right now, I'm between calls at a Cable TV company, providing tech support
for their high-speed internet. Not what I envisioned after a college degree
and over 15 years of experience. Mind you, I'm glad that the company I
work for is giving me a chance to earn a living. I have no beef with them.
I can't stand the right-wing attitude in the industry, though.

Yes, I've got some anger. It comes from working hard only to have people
tell me to my face that my work means nothing.

I also, however, have a strong moral sense. I never learned system cracking
skills because I know about the temper that runs in my family. If I had, I
can already tell you that the City of Detroit Hospital system would be fouled
up and I'd be in jail now.

The problem is that, if you let 'em get away with mistreating YOU, there's no
saying that they won't start doing it full-time to OTHERS. It's like appeasing
a fascist--and we all know what happens when you do THAT.

So I'm stuck here quietly fuming and branching out into other fields because
I can't stand what those bastards have done and are still doing, and don't
have the means to provide the corrective "therapy" (Bush Administration,
eat your heart out) that the situation warrants. Quite frankly, I don't see
any legal way to head off the horrors that I forsee if things continue as they
are.

Best of luck--and I hope that things work out for you.


I must say you are one of few I think, based on your writing...who DOES understand. And I think we share more beliefs and ideology than not.

*climbs up onto the same heap* Unemployed, uninsured, unable to recieve social services support, simply because I'm a felon, on probation, that never served jail time. Thank's uncle sugar!!!

I feel for ya...but, by your own admission, you are a felon. You DID break the law. I never have, yet I'm treated as much, if not more so, like human garbage than you are, and that is just plain bullshit.

*sigh* as much as i'd love to support you, and try and help you thru your hardships, I have to say you think that no one understand because they're not in the same situation, and even tho it's sad, the only one with the keys to your freedom are you. I'm persecuted, I'm discriminated against, and the only person that can move me from that position in this world is me, plain and simple. Might I suggest humbly that you try the same?

Even tho many people here have disagreeded with your ideals, those same people have offered you ideas and suggestions on ways to improve your situation. I'd be honored if folks would do the same for me, but they normally don't, and I can understand that. But instead of investing time and effort into trying their ideas, you instead get angered and continue to point out what keeps happening to you. Lyric, you can do it, I most assuredly have faith in you, because anyone with that much fire in their words has that much fire in their soul, meaning that you're the type of person who sets their mind on something and goes after it. But I would hazard a guess to say that, as of late, you've felt the sting of people's poisons and have just laid down to die. DON'T. You hold the keys to your kingdom, unlock your door, and step inside. If you feel that you can't, or that it isn't worth it, or you won't, then it's pointless for all of us to continue to feel sorrow for you, because at that point, you've stopped needing our help, needing nothing more than to feed your own pity well.

I mean my words, not with malice, or hatred, but with simple honesty. You can do it, and I'd venture a guess to say that everyone here (even those that disagree with your points of view) would say the same.

good luck!!!

#1 - until you've slept on concrete, do not say you understand. You couldn't possibly begin to understand,

This is fallacious reasoning. One doesn't have to directly experience a thing to be capable of understanding it. That is one thing that is wonderful about being human and possessing a human brain. We don't have to, like animals, learn by rote.


Our social system, while a wondeful thing (helping those seriously less fortunate, or unable to persue active work, is a good thing, in my opinion), it does need an overhaul.

Oh, I agree on that.

But until you've: stood in that line for three hours, filled out the six forms they give you, stand in line another hour to hand the forms in, set back down and wait an hour, go in and discuss the fact you're not addicted to drugs and alcohol nor are you suicidal, go back out and wait another half hour, talk to someone who makes you sign five forms then hands you three sheets and sets you up two appointments outside of the DSS offices and one more back there in 48 hours, sends you back out to sit another 20 minutes to an hour, then you speak to an 'employment counselor' who tells you that without a car, there's not really any jobs available to you, then sends you on your way, you don't understand .

Nonsense. I don't know a single person who doesn't understand bureacracy. It's everywhere, and not just for single people trying to get welfare.

The rest of your post I couldn't find disagreement with so I've not much more to say.

The American dream is best portrayed in Max Payne 2.

'Course, we all know that wealthy people are better people, right? And we all know that the black slave race, much like the red tribals that inhabited the blessed soil of the U.S of A in ages past, have done none of the wonders that the white race has, such as building cities, creating art, science, and computer technology. So why should such an inferior race be allowed to sip from the same cup as those that know all?

Grow up. America is a land of corruption. The ony way to save it is to destroy it.

The American dream is best portrayed in Max Payne 2.

'Course, we all know that wealthy people are better people, right? And we all know that the black slave race, much like the red tribals that inhabited the blessed soil of the U.S of A in ages past, have done none of the wonders that the white race has, such as building cities, creating art, science, and computer technology. So why should such an inferior race be allowed to sip from the same cup as those that know all?

Grow up. America is a land of corruption. The ony way to save it is to destroy it.

We seem to have many posters following the example of Caribel these days...

See, this is the glory of capitalism. We don't all have to earn the same amount of money. People can work and get ahead. I maybe be rather right-wing. But I would say getting rid of a lot of our welfare/social security programs would be good for the country. I don't think the government should really have much of any influence in our lives other than setting some law, enforcing them, and providing education. It is really up to people to help themselves. I hate it when people start complaining that the president hates black people or other crap like that. If they chose not to leave, then it is their fault. If they had no means of transportation, its definitley not the government's fault. Now don't get me wrong, I think we should help other people. But you can't expect the government to bail you out. It is the option of people if they want to be charitable. Overall, I am just trying to say that inequalities in our culture really aren't because of the government or anyone else. They are because some person decided to, for one reason or another, not go out and apply themselves. I don't care what race you are from, if you go to school, work hard, get a scholarship, go to college, you can succeed just fine in life.

Defence is definately correct. Though a variant.

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=defence

You really should discover the "colour" of language. :)

Hi Wills..!! :eek:
:fluffle: heehee

I hope you're joking. Poverty is absolutely not a choice. Living on the streets is not a choice. Watching your children starve to death in your arms is no way in hell "a choice". It's statments like yours above that try and justify the abuses made by our government, by the men WE elect into office to supposedly protect us. "By the people and for the people" my ____.

If you don't like the people in the government, get your friends together and
vote them out.

If you don't like people living on the streets, get your friends together and
house them.

If you don't like people starving, get your friends together and feed them.

Do you not have enough friends, or more properly, people who believe as you
do?

Why might that be?


America is currently the world superpower, and yet we cannot even ensure that all of our citizens have enough food to stay alive or even a decent place to sleep at night, yet our leaders have no problem shelling out trillions of dollars into foreign conquests and "nation building" abroad. Nation building? What makes them the right men for the job when they can't even take care of their own populace? When they leave 100,000 of their most vunerable citizens to fend for themselves in the face of one of the worst natural disasters in American history, how the hell do they acquire the credentials to become our leaders!?

You moral indignation is delightful. I would suggest putting it into action.
Perhaps you already are? If so, very good for you.

Once again, use your energy for practical action whenever possible. Is it
really the best use of your worthy indignant energies to be posting in this
trivial forum, or perhaps getting out there with your friends and overthrowing
the government and instituting your own system to deal with mass disaster
and systemic social ills.

In other words,.. put your "money" (resources) where your mouth is.


Our government has failed monumentously in its duties, and I am convinced that within my lifetime the society and government of America will change radically. The rich continue to get richer while the poor lay forgotten amongst the refuse, with more and more people joining their ranks as the buffer middle class vanishes before our very eyes. Health care is unavaliable to most of them and many are living in third world conditions. Under such conditions, radicalism will flourish and you'll have the beginnings of open class conflict. If trends continue on the same course, all you will need is a leader to form the cult of personality and you'll have yourself a revolution.

The middle-class is not a "buffer" between the "rich" and the "poor". That is
the phrasing of social warfare. Do you REALLY promote ANY form of warfare,
in this case social warfare?

What IS the duty of government? Is it really to be the Robin Hood for the
poor?

What is the responsibility of the rich? Is it really to support those
who "CHOOSE" not to see to their own living conditions? (It is, in my opinion,
the duty of the rich to help those who desire a better life to learn how to
make that happen,.. but NOT to simply give them resources to squander.)

What is the responsibilty of the poor? Is it really to beg and become socially
criminal because it's their "RIGHT" to live as a productive member of society
does, without having to do the necessary work involved?

(( Once again, I'm not talking about the poor who desire a better life and are
willing to put in the effort. They should be assisted at every opportunity to
do so. ))


But it shouldn't come to this. Hopefully one day soon our leaders will be able to extricate their heads from their a__ long enough to do some good for our country and our people, every damn one of them. It shouldn't take a gun to garuntee that the basic human rights of all are protected, and it most certianly shouldn't be needed in America.

What ARE these "basic human rights"? Who decides what they are? Who
should enforce them? What if you don't agree with them?

Your solution, as I read what you want to happen, is socialism. And socialism
is doomed to failure as it is based in nothing more than the whim of a small
set of people in power who decide what the "rules" are, and who enforce
them on the majority by force of arms.

But then,.. capitalism has some bugs that need to be worked out before it
works "perfectly" as well. Such as getting a better grip on how to identify
the "worthy" poor, and the truly helpless (sick/disabled in one form or
another), from the criminally needy.

Help the worthy,.. rehabilitate or remove the criminal.

The American dream is best portrayed in Max Payne 2.

'Course, we all know that wealthy people are better people, right? And we all know that the black slave race, much like the red tribals that inhabited the blessed soil of the U.S of A in ages past, have done none of the wonders that the white race has, such as building cities, creating art, science, and computer technology. So why should such an inferior race be allowed to sip from the same cup as those that know all?

Grow up. America is a land of corruption. The ony way to save it is to destroy it.

Wealth is good,.. as any human being on the planet will tell you. Having the
resources you need to accomplish what you want to accomplish is a good
thing.

No people are slaves. Only individuals can be slaves.

"Wonders" are merely tools and monuments to what a people consider
important. Some people consider different things to be wonders. If you value
a pristine mid-continental prairie as a "wonder", then that is what you wonder
at. No "wonder" is more important than another, but they all have different
functions.

There are no inferior races. There are inferior ways of accomplishing various
accomplishments, though. A society is free to decide what it values
as "accomplishment".

If one does not value what their surrounding society values, then they should
try to find a society that values what they value.

..or change the society to conform to their values.

The question is what methods one chooses to "change society".

I feel for ya...but, by your own admission, you are a felon. You DID break the law. I never have, yet I'm treated as much, if not more so, like human garbage than you are, and that is just plain bullshit.

Wow,.. that's terribly awful..!!

Truly,.. I'm quite sincere in this. Why on earth are you treated as "garbage"?

It is just wrong to be treated thus,.. and there MUST be some recourse to
such unjust treatment..!!

Now you've got me SERIOUSLY interested in your plight. Do tell why you're so
oppressed?

Yeah...so that assholes who have all the money can take away choices from other people by holding them hostage, economically.

I suffer from this. Because I am transgender, many people will not give me a job, even though I am extermely well-qualified for the jobs I apply for. They want to punish me for what I have done with my own body, and they ought not be allowed to do that. My choices that hurt no one else, and are not illegal...should not be taken away from me...or used against me in this way. It is not fair and it is not right.

You're absolutely right. Being treated badly for that reason is ridiculous. But I
know there are folks out there that would be more than happy to give you a
job.

But no one should be compelled to give ANYONE a job in their business.

You may have to travel from where you are at the moment. That is a
consequence of your choices that you either didn't plan on, didn't realize
would happen, or decided that it would be more "interesting" to "butt up
against" when it became reality.

As others see it, they are not PUNISHING you. They are simply not
REWARDING you for your choice.

Should you be compelled to REWARD someone whom you'd rather not reward?


Now, I want to work. Either give me a job and let me EARN a living...or quit bitching about me "sucking off the welfare system." It is YOUR discriminatory practices that are keeping me unfairly oppressed and down. what am I supposed to do, curl up and die, just because you don't like me, or what I have done with my own body?

You need merely move to a more "friendly" area..! :)

If you don't, then that is your choice, and you ARE sucking off the welfare
system, as far as I'm concerned.

It is YOUR discrimination of places to live that is creating your "oppression".

This is an excellent reason for time limits on all welfare benefit systems.


I am not lazy, I am not stupid, I am not underqualified. But I DO suffer from discrimination, bigotry, and prejudice. but I suppose you think that's fair...and that I'm human garbage that deserves to starve to death, right?

What about your own discrimination (in places to live), bigotry (that ALL
people must see you as "normal" and give you things they'd rather not), and
prejudice ("EVERYONE should see things MY WAY..!!!)...?

If you're not lazy, go find fulfilling work, wherever it may reside..!!

There are LOADS of businesses with good folks that have no problem with
transexuals working for them! (I used to work for one in SF. And it was a
SMALL company of less than 25 people.)

Until you've tried that course, perhaps people are justified in thinking you a
leech, as you won't do what is necessary for your own survival.