NationStates Jolt Archive

Whereas:

1. Communism has been responsible for 100,000,000 deaths this century,
2. Communism's stated aim is to eliminate all religions,
3. Communism's stated aim is to eliminate private property,
4. Communism's stated aim is to incite class warfare,
5. Communism's stated aim is to set up a world-wide
proletariate dictatorship,
6. Communism's stated aim is to eliminate free speech and
other forms of opposition.

We request that all forms of communism, most obviously the hammer and sickle, be disallowed on these forums.


[OOC: Basically I'm asking that anyone who agrees with this to sign this thread, and no flaming or "refutations".. I'm just seeing what the opinion is, if it's enough maybe Max'll see.]

I'm not going to flame or refute you. But I can tell you right now, that there will not be many who will sign your petition.

While I disagree with the sentiment behind this, I also disagree with the swastika ban. Just me being me again, though. Restrictions are massively uncool.

While I agree with most of your theses, I cannot back a forum ban of an entire political ideology. lol

FREE SPEECH

When I first read this I thought you actually meant the tools. I was getting ready to smite you with Mjolnir. :p

6. Communism's stated aim is to eliminate free speech and
other forms of opposition.

We request that all forms of communism, most obviously the hammer and sickle, be disallowed on these forums.
Oh, the irony.

6. Communism's stated aim is to eliminate free speech and
other forms of opposition.

We request that all forms of communism, most obviously the hammer and sickle, be disallowed on these forums.


So the solution to the threatened elimination of free speech and other forms of opposition is to eliminate free speech and other forms of opposition?

I have to disagree with the OP.

The hammer and sickle is representative of the spirit of the working class. If you start banning things that represent the spirit of something, then all of our flags can then only consist of basic geometric shapes.

Oh, the irony.

...Yeah...I wanted to bring that inconsistancy up. But he didn't want me to refute him...so I complied with his request.

As a communist I obviously don't agree. Where did you get that figure of deaths communism has caused? I mean, if you count the Soviets killing the Germans, that's just stupid, and besides, the Soviet Union wasn't even communist. Marx didn't like religion, but most communist parties in developed nations like the U.S. allow/support religious freedom. What if we decided we wanted to ban the bald eagle as a symbol of America because America has killed x amount of people? Your figure is exactly the same. It's based on exagerate information that doesn't make sense. There has never been a true communist country. Of course communism is about revolution, but today, for the most part, it's about peaceful revolution. So don't be so quick to try to ban a politcal system on an economic system that has never suceeded to date but has the pontetial to.

....I wish this were a joke.

Because you made this petition, I am making the Soviet flag my nation's flag.

Oh, the irony.

LoL!!!

Aaaaahahahahahahahaha.

BTW: Good call Neo-Anarchists :D

I'm against banning the Swastika, so I'm not going to be for banning the Hammer and Sickle.

I have to disagree with the OP.

The hammer and sickle is representative of the spirit of the working class. If you start banning things that represent the spirit of something, then all of our flags can then only consist of basic geometric shapes.
*Playing devils advocate*
I'm sure the swastika represents something good to neo-nazi types as well. They see it as an image of their dream society. Yet NS bans that as well.

For me, the hammer and sickle typically represent the millions who died under the various communist governments. The oppression of over a billion people for an extended (and continuing period of time.) The enslavement of millions, and the many lives that were lost in Korea in an attempt to stop the spread of communism. I am reminded of the story my grandfather told me about when he stockpiled canned foods in the basement when Soviet Missiles were discovered on Cuba in 1961.

It means something different to me than it does to you, obviously. Just as the swastika means something different to a neo-nazi as it does to me.

*end playing devils advocate*

Sorry, but I will not back a ban against my national flag.

As a communist I obviously don't agree. Where did you get that figure of deaths communism has caused? I mean, if you count the Soviets killing the Germans, that's just stupid, and besides, the Soviet Union wasn't even communist. Marx didn't like religion, but most communist parties in developed nations like the U.S. allow/support religious freedom. What if we decided we wanted to ban the bald eagle as a symbol of America because America has killed x amount of people? Your figure is exactly the same. It's based on exagerate information that doesn't make sense. There has never been a true communist country. Of course communism is about revolution, but today, for the most part, it's about peaceful revolution. So don't be so quick to try to ban a politcal system on an economic system that has never suceeded to date but has the pontetial to.

All true, dude..especially about the peaceful revolution..The silent force is sometimes stronger than the rioters.

1. Communism has not happened this century.
2. Which form of communism, specifically, does all of this? Marxism? Leninisn? Maoism? Trotskyism? They are all different, so, which one?
3. If you've actually read about communism, half of what you've said isn't true.

I'm all for banning the Hammer and Sickle, it is hypocritical to ban a flag because it is associated with a muderous maniac (Hitler), but allow a flag that is associated with a murderous maniac (Stalin) who was even worse.

No one's gonna sign this so let's let it die...

Uhm. Ignore my previous post.

I'll sign this.

I'm all for basic geometric shapes on flags. ONLY.

No letters, no pictures, no symbols.


AND NO SHAPES WITH MORE THAN 7 SIDES!!

1. Communism has not happened this century.
2. Which form of communism, specifically, does all of this? Marxism? Leninisn? Maoism? Trotskyism? They are all different, so, which one?
3. If you've actually read about communism, half of what you've said isn't true.
I believe he is just for banning the Hammer and Sickle. Which are easily associated with the USSR, PRC, DPRK, Khmer Rouge, Red Army Faction, Tito's Yugoslav Communists and plenty of other nasty, nasty folks.

No "refutation"? No Right of Reply?! That's Commi talk! Dirty RED!

Uhm. Ignore my previous post.

I'll sign this.

I'm all for basic geometric shapes on flags. ONLY.

No letters, no pictures, no symbols.


AND NO SHAPES WITH MORE THAN 7 SIDES!!

But I :fluffle: the octagon!

I'm all for banning the Hammer and Sickle, it is hypocritical to ban a flag because it is associated with a muderous maniac (Hitler), but allow a flag that is associated with a murderous maniac (Stalin) who was even worse.
Guess how much your opinion counts?

Whereas:

1. Communism has been responsible for 100,000,000 deaths this century,
2. Communism's stated aim is to eliminate all religions,
3. Communism's stated aim is to eliminate private property,
4. Communism's stated aim is to incite class warfare,
5. Communism's stated aim is to set up a world-wide
proletariate dictatorship,
6. Communism's stated aim is to eliminate free speech and
other forms of opposition.

We request that all forms of communism, most obviously the hammer and sickle, be disallowed on these forums.


[OOC: Basically I'm asking that anyone who agrees with this to sign this thread, and no flaming or "refutations".. I'm just seeing what the opinion is, if it's enough maybe Max'll see.]

despite the obvious fact we can tell this guy is not a normal General poster (see larger italics) he should have made a POLL for this thread. That, and who would not refute or flame this guy in a normal General thread?

Perhaps this is meant for a different forum? hence the OOC. Perhaps the 6 steps to bannination is actually an in character request...

But I :fluffle: the octagon!
Okay, octagon can be the exception, so long as it is a regular octagon with 8 equal sides, 8 equal angles, etc.

Okay, octagon can be the exception, so long as it is a regular octagon with 8 equal sides, 8 equal angles, etc.
But that has to do with equality, which is linked to the hammer and sickle, which is a symbol that must be banned because it is a symbol of hate and murder. Ban all regular polyhedron!

But that has to do with equality, which is linked to the hammer and sickle, which is a symbol that must be banned because it is a symbol of hate and murder. Ban all regular polyhedron!
Hmm. We have to ban all polyheda. From now on, flags will be simply a field. There are more than enough colors in the spectrum for us to each have our individual color!

No decagons! You dirty Commie Red!

Hmm. We have to ban all polyheda. From now on, flags will be simply a field. There are more than enough colors in the spectrum for us to each have our individual color!
But aren't fields squares? :eek:

Hmm. We have to ban all polyheda. From now on, flags will be simply a field. There are more than enough colors in the spectrum for us to each have our individual color!
Not red either. Red must be banned. As must be black. Green is offensive because of the ALF and PETA, orange and blue because of the pro/anti-settler movements in Israel, gold is a symbol of capitalism, as is silver, and must be banned because capitalism has killed more people then communism has (give or take a few million), and yellow must be banned because it is the color of urine, which is offensive.


You can have any flag you want, so long as it is white!

But aren't fields squares? :eek:

I guess that'd depend on the shape of the flag now, wouldn't it?

Either way, standard flag is a rectangle.

Communism caused less deaths than christianity with the inquisition and all.

So lets ban crosses and all religious symbols.;)

One ideology is not wrong because of the errors of the past. If someone had read Marx, or Lenin, or Trotsky would see that other than the defense of a society where the people own everything, hence no private property but common property they didnt advocate any of the other points.

The difference between communism and christianity on one side and nazi-fascism on the other is that the first two defend a goal of common good while nazi-fascism defends the killing or discrimination of people according to ethnic or religious background. This way in the name of a good ideology there were comitted crimes (Inquisition and Stalin) but those crimes should only set an example for the future so they are never again comitted. Nazi-fascism comitted crimes to further a hideous ideology of hatred so the problem is not the crimes but the ideology itself.

IMO everyone advocating the swastika doesnt get the point of it all.

1. Communism has been responsible for 100,000,000 deaths this century

Government in general has killed around 200,000 people.

2. Communism's stated aim is to eliminate all religions

Leninism's aim, maybe, but atheism is not compulsory for all theories with a communist economic component.

3. Communism's stated aim is to eliminate private property

That allows a ruling élite to exploit and rule over the working class.

4. Communism's stated aim is to incite class warfare

Against an enemy that lives off the labor of the working class and has started wars, invented slavery, nukes, etc.

5. Communism's stated aim is to set up a world-wide
proletariate dictatorship

A stateless, classless society actually. Only Marxists support a dictatorship.

6. Communism's stated aim is to eliminate free speech and
other forms of opposition.

Stalinism's stated aim is to eliminate free speech. Anarcho-communism, at least, is hardly against free speech.

I refuse to live in a world without dodecahedrons, I do! :mad:

Anyhoo, the hammer and sickle are not universially offensive as the swastika. Tough titties! Get over it and realise that life just ain't fair.

I would say the difference is in the meaning of the symbols. The H&S was supposed to be a symbol of the Communist ideals in the countries that used it, and was ultimately turned in to a mockery of itself by their actions. So, its intent was generally noble, but it was twisted.

The Nazi Swastika (emphaisis added because I know it's used in other places with vastly different meanings) was intentionally chosen by the Nazis as a symbol of their regime, and had a direct reference to the occultist Aryan supremacy that was the focal point for their various actions and atrocities. It directly symbolizes those ideas. The symbol was always intended by the Nazis to be one of hate, power, and fear.

But by banning the hammer and sickle and people from supporting a different form of government than the one you agree with aren't you just taking away free speech just like they do.

(And no I'm not a communist. I am a 100% supporter of Capitalism.)

Also communism doesn't want to ban all religions. Look at North Vietnam. Ho Chi Min fused communism with Buddhism.

5. Communism's stated aim is to set up a world-wide proletariate dictatorship,Isn't that the same thing as a democracy? The majority dictate to society as a whole?

Tough titties!
:p Could I use that at some point? LOL

Also communism doesn't want to ban all religions. Look at North Vietnam. Ho Chi Min fused communism with Buddhism.
Good old Uncle Ho...