NationStates Jolt Archive

Being forced to read tons of books about the Holocaust today, is VERY offensive to me. I mean, is anyone else offended about having to read SOO much about the Holocaust?

Being forced to read tons of books about the Holocaust today, is VERY offensive to me. I mean, is anyone else offended about having to read SOO much about the Holocaust?

Those who forget history are doomed to repeat it.

Why are you offended?

Why does it offend you?

It's a monumental event in history that changed people's perceptions of alot of things. It's important to learn about.

Being forced to read tons of books about the Holocaust today, is VERY offensive to me. I mean, is anyone else offended about having to read SOO much about the Holocaust?

Too bad. Drop out, then, and don't go to college.

Incidently, why is it offensive?

Those who forget history are doomed to repeat it.

Somehow I think we are doomed to repeat it even if we dont forget it.

Being forced to read tons of books about the Holocaust today, is VERY offensive to me. I mean, is anyone else offended about having to read SOO much about the Holocaust?*hands Serapindal a straw*
Suck it up.
The Holocaust was a significant historical event, and we should learn about it. Aside from that, considering that millions of people had to suffer through the real thing, you shouldn't be complaining about having to read about it.

Because we give WAAAAY too much attention to the Holocaust.

We don't have to read anything about Stalin (killer of up to 60 million people).

We don't have to read about Japanese Massacres on the Chinse (killing about 15 million people, in methods far more gruesome then the holocaust. Unit 731 makes Gas Chambers look VERY humane..)

We didn't have to read about the deaths in the Red Revolution, where more then 9 million dead.

And NOTHING at all about WWI OR WWII.

We read about the Holocaust, and we don't even tell our students what WWII was.

Being forced to read tons of books about the Holocaust today, is VERY offensive to me. I mean, is anyone else offended about having to read SOO much about the Holocaust?
I'm offended when people are ignorant of large scale tragedies which touch all of humanity.

Because we give WAAAAY too much attention to the Holocaust.

We don't have to read anything about Stalin (killer of up to 60 million people).

We don't have to read about Japanese Massacres on the Chinse (killing about 15 million people, in methods far more gruesome then the holocaust. Unit 731 makes Gas Chambers look VERY humane..)

We didn't have to read about the deaths in the Red Revolution, where more then 9 million dead.

And NOTHING at all about WWI OR WWII.

We read about the Holocaust, and we don't even tell our students what WWII was.
Either you're not paying attention or your school sucks.

It's a horrible tragedy that millions of people died, but I say..

JOIN THE CLUB. THERE ARE MANY OTHER MASSACRES WHERE MORE AND EQUAL NUMBERS OF PEOPLE DIED! What makes it so that your massacre deserves more attention?

Are 10 million jews worth MORe then 60 million russians?

Are 10 million Jews worth MORE then 15 million Chinese?

NO. People are people, no matter what. They're all the same. I find no reason why the Holocaust is more important?

Because we give WAAAAY too much attention to the Holocaust.

Shrug ... we Jews have great PR. Go write your own history book, get it accredited, and distribute it to schools if you don't like the current ones.

Until you do that, no bitching allowed.

Seconded, I'm sick of being drilled repeatedly on one tiny piece of history and ignoring everything before it, after it and around it. Over here it's not so much the Holocaust as racism in early 20th century America though. I've lost count of the number of (really really really dull) books I've had to read on that subject in English class.

I'm offended when people are ignorant of large scale tragedies which touch all of humanity.

I agree. Yet, somehow, they only teach the Holocaust, while happily ommitting many other large-scale tragedies, that killed MORE people. That's what I find offensive.

It's a horrible tragedy that millions of people died, but I say..

JOIN THE CLUB. THERE ARE MANY OTHER MASSACRES WHERE MORE AND EQUAL NUMBERS OF PEOPLE DIED! What makes it so that your massacre deserves more attention?

Are 10 million jews worth MORe then 60 million russians?

Are 10 million Jews worth MORE then 15 million Chinese?

NO. People are people, no matter what. They're all the same. I find no reason why the Holocaust is more important?

Jews wern't the only victims of the Holocaust.

Because we give WAAAAY too much attention to the Holocaust.

We don't have to read anything about Stalin (killer of up to 60 million people).

We don't have to read about Japanese Massacres on the Chinse (killing about 15 million people, in methods far more gruesome then the holocaust. Unit 731 makes Gas Chambers look VERY humane..)

We didn't have to read about the deaths in the Red Revolution, where more then 9 million dead.

And NOTHING at all about WWI OR WWII.

We read about the Holocaust, and we don't even tell our students what WWII was.

I can agree w/ that for the most part. I took a WWII history course and we spent about half the course on the Holocaust. While it is an important event in history, the emphasis placed on it is somewhat extreme.

Go to school in Asia if you want Asia-centric World History courses.

Until then, your history courses will be Eurocentric + America.

Jews wern't the only victims of the Holocaust.

Well, yeah, so were Homosexuals, Gypsies, and the Physicall Disabled, but a majority of them were Jews.

I just didn't want to type out Homosexuals, Gypsies, and the Physically disabled like 50 times.

Watch "Conspiracy."

Go to school in Asia if you want Asia-centric World History courses.

Until then, your history courses will be Eurocentric + America.

I can just go picture you saying this in the 50's.


"GO TO SCHOOL in Africa if you want to have schools that let black people in. Until then, you will have to be segreagrated."

Because we give WAAAAY too much attention to the Holocaust.

We don't have to read anything about Stalin (killer of up to 60 million people).

We don't have to read about Japanese Massacres on the Chinse (killing about 15 million people, in methods far more gruesome then the holocaust. Unit 731 makes Gas Chambers look VERY humane..)

We didn't have to read about the deaths in the Red Revolution, where more then 9 million dead.

And NOTHING at all about WWI OR WWII.

We read about the Holocaust, and we don't even tell our students what WWII was.



because hittler was bent on removing a whole people from the world,the jew,gays,mentally challanged,blacks.....etc.


Stalin did this to pervent his political enemies of thinking of doin somthing...same as the japs to china,since china had a gurrila army fighting japan.


they were all awful....but hittler not only wanted to take the jews and such out....but motivated a country to hate and beat the jew wherever they were.


but your point is noted too....not too many people know about other such events.....IMO i think it is because the holocaust was so horrible...it best represents them all.

Go to school in Asia if you want Asia-centric World History courses.

Until then, your history courses will be Eurocentric + America.
I guess you didn't notice where he mentioned Stalin and the Red Revolution?

For that matter my school didn't even cover the African campagians of WWII and WWI. Thats right. No Rommel in Africa. Never heard of him. Nada. We didn't cover much what happened before America joined, we didn't cover much of the cause of WWII and how it realted to the after-effects of WWI. Didn't much discuss the Spanish civil war.

Though boy if we didn’t cover the Khmer Rouge in depth as hell.

It's a horrible tragedy that millions of people died, but I say..

JOIN THE CLUB. THERE ARE MANY OTHER MASSACRES WHERE MORE AND EQUAL NUMBERS OF PEOPLE DIED! What makes it so that your massacre deserves more attention?

Are 10 million jews worth MORe then 60 million russians?

Are 10 million Jews worth MORE then 15 million Chinese?

NO. People are people, no matter what. They're all the same. I find no reason why the Holocaust is more important?

I hear what you are saying, however I wouldn't say that learning about the Holocaust is offensive.

Well, yeah, so were Homosexuals, Gypsies, and the Physicall Disabled, but a majority of them were Jews.

I just didn't want to type out Homosexuals, Gypsies, and the Physically disabled like 50 times.And commies.
Don't forget the commies. Political dissidents in general.
While Jews were the largest group to be persecuted, they did not comprise the majority of the victims, to my knowledge.

I was bored as f--- too. In fact, the first ever Holocaust Rememberance Day, I boycotted it. The one and only time I have ever gone truant. But I spent the time doing physics homework, so I wasn't totally bad. :)

"killer of up to 60 million people"

That is a huge overstatement. People now think he only killed about 800,000 for political reasons (which is still obscene, but far from what people think). And if by 60 million casualties you mean the war, you can't blame him for defending his country how he saw fit, even if he did some evil things, his plan was crazy enough to work. What if the Soviet Union had a more liberal leader who appeased Hitler and gave up 1/2 the country, then where would the Allies be? By the way, I am not a Stalinist, I'm a Marxist, and I'm merely try to end unfair western biases against the Soviet Union.

It's not so much as how many were killed. But that entire parts of society were targeted, methodically killed in the name of the citizens of a nation. That the citizens were widely convinced that what was happening was right or were ignorant, and those that weren't lived in fear of ever trying to protest. The phenomen of the Holocaust is just how much popular support it had. In terms of plain facts then the Holocaust isn't the biggest or worst. In terms of examining human nature then the Holocaust is absolutely horrifying.

Plus there is your the fact that you live in the west with a western orientated outlook.

With the time you're given you can only study so much. And it's perhaps more important to study one in depth that catch a fleeting glance at all of history.

edit: And do you really think they'd teach about the Rape of Nanking to adolesents? God forbid that we ever show our kids anything sexual. Ever.

because hittler was bent on removing a whole people from the world,the jew,gays,mentally challanged,blacks.....etc.


Stalin did this to pervent his political enemies of thinking of doin somthing...same as the japs to china,since china had a gurrila army fighting japan.


they were all awful....but hittler not only wanted to take the jews and such out....but motivated a country to hate and beat the jew wherever they were.


but your point is noted too....not too many people know about other such events.....IMO i think it is because the holocaust was so horrible...it best represents them all.

Actually, when you look at it, a Gas Chamber is rather humane, when compared to having to starve, and then being stabbed with a bayonet, and left bleeding to death in a painful and slow death.

And plus, little have heard the expulsion of Ethnic Germans from Russia, in which Stalin has motiavted an entire country to beat and kill the German, whenever they saw it. In the "expulsion" (funny, the Nazis called the Holocaust "Jewish Expulsion" when talking to the public), about two million Germans died, including 4 millions MORE people massacred by the Soviets, in other places. A similiar number to how many Jews died in the Holocaust. And yet, we hear nothing about Soviet Atrocities. Or Japanese Atrocities. They killed about six million of people from other Asian countries, but no one knows about that either. It's just embarrasing frankly.

And yet, we can see that VERY

I guess you didn't notice where he mentioned Stalin and the Red Revolution?

For that matter my school didn't even cover the African campagians of WWII and WWI. Thats right. No Rommel in Africa. Never heard of him. Nada. We didn't cover much what happened before America joined, we didn't cover much of the cause of WWII and how it realted to the after-effects of WWI. Didn't much discuss the Spanish civil war.

Though boy if we didn’t cover the Khmer Rouge in depth as hell.
Was is AmHist or WoHist?

In my world history class in high school when I was a sophomore, we breifly touched on Russia, Germany, Japan, and the nation that invented facism yet everyone forgets, Italy. It was all brief though, because it was world history, and in two semesters, we went from the Roman empire to the end of WWII.

In my Ameircan history class, however, when we got to the 20th century, we focused on America's involvement in WWII. Sure, it was broken up into the two theatres (and yes, we covered Africa fairly extensively), however, we didn't discuss Russia very much. Why? Russia were essentially allies, and so in an American history class, we discussed Russia just as much as Great Britain, France, and China, etc.

When I was in school, WWI and WWII where glassed over in order to focus on the Great Society.

I was bored as f--- too. In fact, the first ever Holocaust Rememberance Day, I boycotted it. The one and only time I have ever gone truant. But I spent the time doing physics homework, so I wasn't totally bad. :)
God, you suck at this rebel thing, don't you?

"killer of up to 60 million people"

That is a huge overstatement. People now think he only killed about 800,000 for political reasons (which is still obscene, but far from what people think). And if by 60 million casualties you mean the war, you can't blame him for defending his country how he saw fit, even if he did some evil things, his plan was crazy enough to work. What if the Soviet Union had a more liberal leader who appeased Hitler and gave up 1/2 the country, then where would the Allies be? By the way, I am not a Stalinist, I'm a Marxist, and I'm merely try to end unfair western biases against the Soviet Union.

Up to 60 milllion civilian casulaties caused by Stalin himself. Things like the Five-Year Plan, the secret police. I mean, the Secret Police was so much of a mass murderer, telegrams like "Telegram: 10,000 exterminated" and that would be all you'd hear.

If you want to learn more about other stuff in history, GO STUDY HISTORY! Sheesh :rolleyes:

http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/warstat1.htm#Stalin

If you watch some Holocaust movies (The Pianist, Conspiracy, etc), you get a pretty good idea of how the Holocaust is different than Japan and Russia.

The Holocaust was entirely about racism and class. Japan and Russia are more about power and paranoia.

If you want to learn more about other stuff in history, GO STUDY HISTORY! Sheesh :rolleyes:

Of course I know History. I'm just offended how the Education System is withholding any information from the other studenst.

"Stalin has motiavted an entire country to beat and kill the German"

Yeah, after the Germans killed and raped Soviet civilians when they launched Operation Barbarossa. I'm not saying Stalin was right, but the Germans weren't either. ;)

man i cant wait to get my degree...i want to become a history teacher.Then i can do it my way.WITH SENCELESS BEATINGS!!!!!!! muhahahaha!!!!

"Stalin has motiavted an entire country to beat and kill the German"

Yeah, after the Germans killed and raped Soviet civilians when they launched Operation Barbarossa. I'm not saying Stalin was right, but the Germans weren't either. ;)

Incorrect.

The Germany ARMY killed Soviet Civilians. There is a difference between that. Armies massacre people (usually under the order of a madman). Not Nationalaties or Ethnicities.

Of course I know History. I'm just offended how the Education System is withholding any information from the other studenst.
Some people just aren't interested. You can teach them a little important stuff

Friend (history student): "So when were the middle ages"
Our Drummer: "18......"
*concerned look*
Drummer: "17...?"
Friend: "Dude. It's from 500 to 1500"
Drummer: "What? That early?"

Some people just aren't very interested

man i cant wait to get my degree...i want to become a history teacher.Then i can do it my way.WITH SENCELESS BEATINGS!!!!!!! muhahahaha!!!!

This man deserves Teacher of Year. Nuff said.

Being forced to read tons of books about the Holocaust today, is VERY offensive to me. I mean, is anyone else offended about having to read SOO much about the Holocaust?

Do you live in California? If so, I have an idea about what your going through.

Since 7th grade, nearly every year we have had either a "holocaust book" or holocaust report. We read Nacht in 7th grade 7th!!! Do you know what that does to a child's mind, to be so swamped with this information of constant death and destruction? It was an excellent book, but should have been read somewhere in High School.

In any case, by 8th grade my friends and I (I'm German, had Jewish friends) were already so desensitized to the material we were joking about it. The system obviously did not reach its desired effect.

And thorugh this my idiotic (and biased) teacher constantly told us how much the Jews suffereed, and for a while I BELIEVED that the Jews were the only ones killed in the holocaust. But soon after I discovered on my own that 6 million (has it been re-checked lately?) was but half of the people killed, and also an incredible 25-30 MILLION peopl died on the Russian front alone during the war. I don't mean to diminish the tragedy of the holocaust, but it seems so wrong that so many other important historical events get entirelly ignored while the Holocaust is given so much attention.

In the end, it simply wasn't healthy to be force-fed the information for such a long time, you just become bitingly cynical.

man i cant wait to get my degree...i want to become a history teacher.Then i can do it my way.WITH SENCELESS BEATINGS!!!!!!! muhahahaha!!!!
As long as you're not an English teacher, I don't think I'll be too bothered.

However, you do know that teachers at the high school level have to follow a curriculum set on the state level, and teachers on the college level have to follow a curriculum set by the department.

Of course, you could always teach a more specific class if you didn't want to deal with the Holocaust.

If you watch some Holocaust movies (The Pianist, Conspiracy, etc), you get a pretty good idea of how the Holocaust is different than Japan and Russia.

The Holocaust was entirely about racism and class. Japan and Russia are more about power and paranoia.

And that brings me to another point. The overreprensation of the Holocaust in popular culture.

There are loads of Holocaust movies and stuff.

There are barely any movies on any other mass murder or massacre in the entire film industry. Red Revolution? Nah. Stalin's Murders? Nah. The Army of Japan's War Crimes? Nah.

The closest you can get is Animal Farm for Stalin, and you get nothing for the other stuff.

"The Germany ARMY"

O.K. but most of the army was made up of Germans, and it is the army of Germany, but ya, if you want to be technical, you're right.

here's a possible reason why Hitler's atrocities are in history texts while Stalin's and Mao's and the Khmer Rouge's are not:

Those who write the texts are primarily liberal and do not want you to know the evil that has come out of Communism.

The Germany ARMY killed Soviet Civilians. There is a difference between that. Armies massacre people (usually under the order of a madman). Not Nationalaties or Ethnicities.

A large segment of the German people turned a blind eye to those atrocities. It's impossible to argue that the people living in Munich, Berlin, Hannover, or Nuremburg had no idea what was happening in the camps only miles away from them.

I agree. Yet, somehow, they only teach the Holocaust, while happily ommitting many other large-scale tragedies, that killed MORE people. That's what I find offensive.
It seems like something that should be corrected then. I don't feel you could ever pay too much attention to the holocaust but that doesn't mean at the omission of all other tragedy.

And that brings me to another point. The overreprensation of the Holocaust in popular culture.

There are loads of Holocaust movies and stuff.

There are barely any movies on any other mass murder or massacre in the entire film industry. Red Revolution? Nah. Stalin's Murders? Nah. The Army of Japan's War Crimes? Nah.

The closest you can get is Animal Farm for Stalin, and you get nothing for the other stuff.

And if you'd watch those Holocaust movies, you might understand...

The reason that the Holocaust gets more attention is because it's about more than just mass death.

Watch "Enemy at the Gates" (excellent representation of massive deaths on Germany's eastern front) then watch "The Pianist."

I understand where the OP is coming from here. It seems we do overlook alot of human suffering.

It's happened today too. Darfur...Rwanda...Serbia...No one particularly cared it seemed.

A large segment of the German people turned a blind eye to those atrocities. It's impossible to argue that the people living in Munich, Berlin, Hannover, or Nuremburg had no idea what was happening in the camps only miles away from them.

Actually, it's quite possible.

In a Totalarian Society that Nazi Germany was, the populace is completely kept ignorant, and anyone who finds something out, is simply wiped out.

Just because the Holocaust was monstrously evil, doesn't give an excuse to ignore other atrocities just as monstrously evil.

here's a possible reason why Hitler's atrocities are in history texts while Stalin's and Mao's and the Khmer Rouge's are not:

Those who write the texts are primarily liberal and do not want you to know the evil that has come out of Communism.
WHAT THE FUCK?

Liberal = Communism?
Republican = Fascism?
Fluffenutter = Peanut Butter and Jelly?

"Those who write the texts are primarily liberal and do not want you to know the evil that has come out of Communism."

I don't see that as true. There are many liberals who are capitalists, and I learned about Stalin and Mao but not as much as Hitler, but there's a big difference. Hitler wanted to "cleanse" the world and did what he did for racial reasons, Stalin was an egotistical maniac who felt he had to kill, and Mao simply didn't value human life over his ideals and country (kind of like Shi Huangdi with the building of the Great Wall of China). Hitler's reasons were the most evil and racism is a real problem in America, a much greater problem than having a dictator coming to power and beginning mass politcal killings.

I understand where the OP is coming from here. It seems we do overlook alot of human suffering.

It's happened today too. Darfur...Rwanda...Serbia...No one particularly cared it seemed.
That reminds me, by the way...

I am glad that "Hotel Rwanda" was produced, and I am glad that it was such an excellent movie, as it highlights another important event.

As long as you're not an English teacher, I don't think I'll be too bothered.

However, you do know that teachers at the high school level have to follow a curriculum set on the state level, and teachers on the college level have to follow a curriculum set by the department.

Of course, you could always teach a more specific class if you didn't want to deal with the Holocaust.



i live in canada....we get curriculum things too....but hell as long as the work gets done then i will add my own stuff into the mix...alot of my teachers do it all the time.

BTW i am in high school

Actually, it's quite possible.
In a Totalarian Society that Nazi Germany was, the populace is completely kept ignorant, and anyone who finds something out, is simply wiped out.

No, the Holocaust was being gradually built up to. People were fleeing Germany, the Jewish stores, properties, and people were harassed and attacked, and were forced to wear the Star of David, all before the actual killing and imprisonment started. This wasn't a blackout, it happened gradually and with the full consent of a large segment of the population.

Just because the Holocaust was monstrously evil, doesn't give an excuse to ignore other atrocities just as monstrously evil.

Absolutely correct.

Yeah, most Liberals are NOT communists.

Don't look at Nationstates. Nationstates has tons of far-leftists, and not enough far-rightists.

I was hoping for the far-leftists and far-rightists to annihilate each other, like matter and anti-matter. :D

Anyways, in America, primarily, the huge majority of the people are capitalistic, whether they are leftist or rightist.

I just graduated from California State University, Fullerton. Our general world history class was excellent in regards to balancing different tragedies, wars, etc... at least my professor was.

The Halocaust is a significant event and should be talked about in history, but I agree that far too many people get no/little education in any of the other tragedies.

Of course there are also many students that don't really care about history altogether. :(

i live in canada....we get curriculum things too....but hell as long as the work gets done then i will add my own stuff into the mix...alot of my teachers do it all the time.

BTW i am in high school

Well, that's CANADA.

In America, the Education System is based just so that you don't learn ANYTHING at all.

were forced to wear the Star of David
"You know, the Nazis had pieces of flare that they made the Jews wear." --Office Space.

I just graduated from California State University, Fullerton. Our general world history class was excellent in regards to balancing different tragedies, wars, etc... at least my professor was.

The Halocaust is a significant event and should be talked about in history, but I agree that far too many people get no/little education in any of the other tragedies.

Of course there are also many students that don't really care about history altogether. :(

Exactly. The Holocaust should be talked about in History, but so should all the other atrocities, and so should WWII and WWI. (Which is suprinsingly not in the Curriculam in my state.)

I agree with Serapindal - I did the Holocaust to death at GCSE History, then was glad to get away from it at A Level (did the English Reformation and Russia 1853-1959). But when I applied to universities to study History, one of my main choices was Southampton, and from 21 optional modules in the first year, of which I would have had to choose 6, 17 were on Jewish history between 1933 and 1945, 12 directly related to the Holocaust, and four of the other 5 on Jews in Germany. I went for Leicester instead.
Yes, it's important for people to learn about historical events as important as the Holocaust, but not to the extent we're forced to. Jews have been suffering in Europe from before the end of the first millennium CE. Millions died all over Europe because of such anti-Semitism. In Prague, there was a Jewish ghetto for centuries before Hitler had ever been born. And it's not as if Prague's alone in this.
As for the Communists in Russia - they targeted Jews as well. People forget this, either unaware of the scale of atrocities commited by Lenin and Stalin, or focusing simply on the scale - upwards of 60 million dying between 1919 and 1953 in show trials, the GULAG system, collectivisation, civil war, class war, and the pogroms.
Six million is a large number, yes. And certainly in such a short space of time; it's something that should never be forgotten. But don't ram it down schoolkids' throats, they'll end up not caring at best, and at worst...who knows. If you want to teach them about tragedy and human suffering, why not teach them about the colonisation of the New World, where hundreds of thousands of people were wiped out by European settlers, including entire civilisations. Or the Crusades? Or slavery? Or Japanese expansion into China? Or...etc etc. There's plenty more than the Holocaust.

I just graduated from California State University, Fullerton. Our general world history class was excellent in regards to balancing different tragedies, wars, etc... at least my professor was.

The Halocaust is a significant event and should be talked about in history, but I agree that far too many people get no/little education in any of the other tragedies.

Of course there are also many students that don't really care about history altogether. :(


it is a shame people dont take history to heart....anyway congrats on your graduating

"You know, the Nazis had pieces of flare that they made the Jews wear." --Office Space.

"Uh oh, sounds like somebody's got a case of the Mondays1"

"Uh oh, sounds like somebody's got a case of the Mondays!"
"Laurence, what would you do if you had a million dollars?"
"I'll tell you what I'd do. Two chicks at the same time."

"Laurence, what would you do if you had a million dollars?"
"I'll tell you what I'd do. Two chicks at the same time."

Peter: "I'd relax, I would sit on my ass all day, I would do nothing."

Well, that's CANADA.

In America, the Education System is based just so that you don't learn ANYTHING at all.



well.......uhhhh......uhhhh.....ohhhhhh.....atleast you dont have learn french mon ami :D


french aint that bad though....but i learn quebecois french not perisian(sp)

think of quebecois french as perisian but with more slang and english mix in at some places. :p

It's a horrible tragedy that millions of people died, but I say..

JOIN THE CLUB. THERE ARE MANY OTHER MASSACRES WHERE MORE AND EQUAL NUMBERS OF PEOPLE DIED! What makes it so that your massacre deserves more attention?

Are 10 million jews worth MORe then 60 million russians?

Are 10 million Jews worth MORE then 15 million Chinese?

NO. People are people, no matter what. They're all the same. I find no reason why the Holocaust is more important?

It deserves more attention because the idea that a corrupt government can manipulate a whole country into doing something so horrific still has resonance today. Japan and Russia have moved on, even China has become civilized in a way. Stalin was like Saddam Hussein, a powerful figure who ruled through fear. but Hitler, while not above such tactics, was democratically elected and popular. And the Jewish minority were not popular, so became a scapegoat for WW1 and the depression.

Today, if there was a large scale terrorist attack, say with a nuclear bomb, the same thing could happen to muslims. Or an AIDS epidemic could lead to Gays being vilified in the same way. We know such reactions would be irrational, but even rational people need someone to blame, and when there is no one to blame, the minority which most closely fits the bill becomes a scapegoat.

We don't have to learn about the holocaust so that we don't repeat the mistakes of the past, because that is inevitable. We have to learn about it so that when we do repeat those mistakes, people will actually see whats happening and do something about it. No "I was just following orders", because they will remember that from the last time around. We must see the pattern before we can change it.

Being forced to read tons of books about the Holocaust today, is VERY offensive to me. I mean, is anyone else offended about having to read SOO much about the Holocaust?

I'd imagine the people who died in it wern't happy about it either. Quit whining.

Do you live in California? If so, I have an idea about what your going through.

Since 7th grade, nearly every year we have had either a "holocaust book" or holocaust report. We read Nacht in 7th grade 7th!!! Do you know what that does to a child's mind, to be so swamped with this information of constant death and destruction? It was an excellent book, but should have been read somewhere in High School.

In any case, by 8th grade my friends and I (I'm German, had Jewish friends) were already so desensitized to the material we were joking about it. The system obviously did not reach its desired effect.

And thorugh this my idiotic (and biased) teacher constantly told us how much the Jews suffereed, and for a while I BELIEVED that the Jews were the only ones killed in the holocaust. But soon after I discovered on my own that 6 million (has it been re-checked lately?) was but half of the people killed, and also an incredible 25-30 MILLION peopl died on the Russian front alone during the war. I don't mean to diminish the tragedy of the holocaust, but it seems so wrong that so many other important historical events get entirelly ignored while the Holocaust is given so much attention.

In the end, it simply wasn't healthy to be force-fed the information for such a long time, you just become bitingly cynical.

I attended California public schools up until June of 2000 and I never learned a great deal about the Holocaust. We focused much more on Native Americans and slavery.

I'm not really offended but I think the Jews who pushed for educating the masses about Holocaust are a bit dumb... When I first read about the holocaust I nearly broke down in tears, but after reading the 12th book about the holocaust I was so tired in fact I read it so many times that I don't care anymore. I'll never forget about the Holocaust but I no longer give a damn about it either. In fact, my school's reading club recently pushed and shoved and are currently reading Nazi journals, saying that we might as well learn the other side if your going to force us to read about this stuff over and over again. I mean seriously anything taken in excess is bad and the Jews who pushed for this don't understand that. Is it really neccesary to reteach this over and over again? We get it so can we please move on to other history? Its horrible that so many different groups of people went through similar experiences yet everyone continually makes people read about something that is frankly boring and no longer has any efect. In fact I no longer have any negative reaction to Hitler because I've heard it so many times I no longer care.

Shish our education system :rolleyes:

As long as you're not an English teacher, I don't think I'll be too bothered.

*pout* What's wrong with English teachers?

I know NOTHING about WW1. I know about WW2, but mainly in the context of the Holocaust and Hitler's quest for world domination. I need some more faceted education on that. But more importantly, I need to know anything at all about WW1 besides the siren they used to signal air raids and the fact it was in the late 1910s.

It's a horrible tragedy that millions of people died, but I say..

JOIN THE CLUB. THERE ARE MANY OTHER MASSACRES WHERE MORE AND EQUAL NUMBERS OF PEOPLE DIED! What makes it so that your massacre deserves more attention?

Are 10 million jews worth MORe then 60 million russians?

Are 10 million Jews worth MORE then 15 million Chinese?

NO. People are people, no matter what. They're all the same. I find no reason why the Holocaust is more important?
In a way yes. There were only abour 10 million Jews in Europe (and only about 5 million JEWS died BTW, the rest were other groups). The Holocaust represents the systematic attempt to completely wipe out an entire enthic group. Something that is almost unique to human history. All the while Jews, for the most part, didn't fight back while at the same time all of these Jews were being killed very directly. The Chinease and the Russians who died, died more from famines and rebellions. While some of the Chinease and Russians were probably directly killed, I don't believe most did die in a direct manner.

In a way yes. There were only abour 10 million Jews in Europe (and only about 5 million JEWS died BTW, the rest were other groups). The Holocaust represents the systematic attempt to completely wipe out an entire enthic group. Something that is almost unique to human history. All the while Jews, for the most part, didn't fight back while at the same time all of these Jews were being killed very directly. The Chinease and the Russians who died, died more from famines and rebellions. While some of the Chinease and Russians were probably directly killed, I don't believe most did die in a direct manner.

Please don't talk about things you don't know anything about, my grandfather was chinese and he went back to China to help the nation, he was killed by a @!#@! Japanese general who thought it would be fun to hold a head chopping contest. The Japanese were worse then Nazis at least Hitler actually had a reason to be an a$#!@#. The Japanese did it for fun. They even used babies for gun shot practices. So please don't say anything if you don't have enough respect to research this subject. A lot of Chinese were directly killed and the Japanese got kicks out of using biological weapons to poison farming fields in order to start those famines.

*yawns*

It's so tough being a student...

*yawns again, stretches*

What can I say? Make an appeal to your instructor, see if you can't do an alternate study, about Pol Pot, Stalin, Rwanda, Armenia, Serbia, or any other less-than-stellar moments in the history of the species.

Otherwise, button it and get on with yer homework, spotty.

snip

Asians in general have a tendency to be brutal in the war. Look at any war that portion of the world in depth through the ages to see that.

Hmm well thats a bit bias every nation was pretty brutal in the older times. Look at the Cruasades the European nations would even kill off fellow Christians. Every country is pretty brutal at one point or another, Europeans pretty much mastered the art of torture before any other country.

;) soooo thats a pretty unfair statement, since all of our countries use to be uncivilized barbarians ;) lol

Except for the Indians they have a spotless record since their always getting beat up by everyone else.... :(

Shrug ... we Jews have great PR. Go write your own history book, get it accredited, and distribute it to schools if you don't like the current ones.

Until you do that, no bitching allowed.

Being oppresed for a great deal of your existence does that.

Wow.

Your school must really suck.

I like going to public New York state school, the curriculum is regulated and tested by the state, meaning it's standard. I learned about the causes of WW II, the preiod before US intervention, the Japanese atrocities to Korea and Japan, the Russian Gulags and revolution, the atrocities committed by the Communist Chinese, the slaughters by the Communist Cambodians, WW II in Africa, and anything else I didn't mention that someone has complained about not learning.

Wow.

Your school must really suck.

I like going to public New York state school, the curriculum is regulated and tested by the state, meaning it's standard. I learned about the causes of WW II, the preiod before US intervention, the Japanese atrocities to Korea and Japan, the Russian Gulags and revolution, the atrocities committed by the Communist Chinese, the slaughters by the Communist Cambodians, WW II in Africa, and anything else I didn't mention that someone has complained about not learning.

Yup our school systems suck!!!
Wish my school would do that...I want to learn everything. I think no history should be left untouched or ignored.

Sigh but in the end the schools are just secret military bases to turn us into fanatic citizens :( lol

I attended California public schools up until June of 2000 and I never learned a great deal about the Holocaust. We focused much more on Native Americans and slavery.

Where did you attend, when did you attend?

I was raised in predominantly white, conservative, suburban city.

Wow.

Your school must really suck.

I like going to public New York state school, the curriculum is regulated and tested by the state, meaning it's standard. I learned about the causes of WW II, the preiod before US intervention, the Japanese atrocities to Korea and Japan, the Russian Gulags and revolution, the atrocities committed by the Communist Chinese, the slaughters by the Communist Cambodians, WW II in Africa, and anything else I didn't mention that someone has complained about not learning.

Wow. You're lucky.

By State Law, our teacher is not allowed to teach us WWII, anything about Africa, anything about basics in Asia, and anything. Really, we never learned about anything that happened in the last 75 years, because by state law, our history teacher CANNOT teach us it.

This is basically how education here works.

7th grade- Europe. More europe. A little bit of Asia. More Europe.

8th grade- The Constitution. The Civil War.

9th grade- More in depth about Medieval Europe.

10th grade- More in Depth about Rennisane Europe.

11th grade- No History.

12th grade- No History.

I'm offended that you're offended, to be honest.

6 MILLION Jewish people died during that period, along with MANY OTHERS.

Yes, I agree, there should be more emphasis on Stalin as well, but I think learning about the Holocaust is worthwhile, even if you don't.

Wow. You're lucky.

By State Law, our teacher is not allowed to teach us WWII, anything about Africa, anything about basics in Asia, and anything. Really, we never learned about anything that happened in the last 75 years, because by state law, our history teacher CANNOT teach us it.

This is basically how education here works.

7th grade- Europe. More europe. A little bit of Asia. More Europe.

8th grade- The Constitution. The Civil War.

9th grade- More in depth about Medieval Europe.

10th grade- More in Depth about Rennisane Europe.

11th grade- No History.

12th grade- No History.

Why is it against the law?

Being forced to read tons of books about the Holocaust today, is VERY offensive to me. I mean, is anyone else offended about having to read SOO much about the Holocaust?

Maybe you just don't know how to read! Poor baby, you have homework for a history class. I don't feel sorry for you.

Man.. stop bashing the poor guy, hese right... The holocaust big wooptie doo, a genocide where a whole race was nearly killed off big freaking deal. In Africa tribes kill themselves but no, people dont seem to care. The slave trade was just as bad, people would starve and even fall off boats, does anybody care? No i dirint think so... I mean honestly, enough with the massacres theres been more than enough, we all know not to kill others yet we still do it.. So I say screw holocaust and teach psychology

I applaude Serapindal for his...well...bluntness and honesty...Just a remindar...

"What is history but a fable agreed upon?" - Napoleon Bonaparte

I'm not saying that the Holocaust is a lie, but it is has been altered to a certain degree by now...Secondly, don't attack other people because their opinions differ from yours...It doesn't make you look look smart, just overtly aggressive...

We don't have to read anything about Stalin (killer of up to 60 million people).

The political left in this country wouldn't stand for it.

Funny, we learned about the holocaust, the Japanese rape of China and the Stalin backed massacres in my history class. We learned about the African theater and covered Mussolini quite well. Heck, in my sophomore year, we even read “A Day in the Life of Ivan Disonavich” (sp?), a book about the gulags. I love the Commal Independent School Distract. If we could just get rid of that darn abstinence only sex-education, it would be perfect.

We could rule the world!

Look, before you start criticizing schools policy on the holocaust, understand this:

You do not know what the holocaust is. It is the SYSTEMATIC anahilation of undesirable peoples of Germany and it's conquered territories in the 1940's. With the emphasis on systematic. The only difference that makes the holocaust different from other genocides, is that this is the only one that had an intricate sysytem to murder people. Other genocides were by bullets, hunger or others. But NONE of them had a system so complicated JUST to kill people.

Most, if not all other genocides had another goal, besides the killings. Be it for money, power or others. The holocaust had no other goal but to exterminate peoples. To exterminate the jewish people. To exterminate the gypsies. To exterminate the christian people. To exterminate all sick people.
This was it's ultimate goal. To allow for only one race to live on earth. A goal that can be described as ultimate evil.

You may not like it, but such density of human extermination cannot be allowed to be forgotten. The reason that many historians give to study history is to not allow to be repeated. Because this is history. An annal of humanity's mistakes. Such a mistake of ours must be taught, if not to honor the memory of those fallen, but at least to make sure no one has to follow, in one day, their path. To be killed by evil.

I always found that whole era surrounding and during WW2 to be the most fascinating part of history. It's full of very important lessons that we as a country need to be aware of, it was among the most important wars in the history of many, many countries (I mean... if the Allies lost, the entire world would be either be split between Germany and Japan or completely conquered by Germany by now), and we still see the effects of it today.

The political left in this country wouldn't stand for it.

Oh please. I'm a democratic Socialist, you don't get further left in the US... and I hate the Stalinists as much as you do. Really. In fact, I might hate them MORE. Why? Because those red-fascist Bastards took the great moral experiment of our time, ripped it into shreds, pissed on it and threw it in a concentration camp somewhere in Siberia. Now the word Communism references a brutal, dictatorial government type that kills its own people, instead of a unique moral idea, all because of those bastard Stalinists.

So don't blame me and my people for conspiring to hide the truth about Stalin. I keep telling people there's no International Communist Conspiracy... but nobody listens... nobody listens... :shakeshead:

[QUOTE=Michaelic France]"killer of up to 60 million people"

That is a huge overstatement. People now think he only killed about 800,000 for political reasons[QUOTE]

Are you f***ing kidding me?

Shocked, appauled, sick, sad, horrified. Yes. Offended? No. Why are you?

Funny, we learned about the holocaust, the Japanese rape of China and the Stalin backed massacres in my history class. We learned about the African theater and covered Mussolini quite well. Heck, in my sophomore year, we even read “A Day in the Life of Ivan Disonavich” (sp?), a book about the gulags. I love the Commal Independent School Distract. If we could just get rid of that darn abstinence only sex-education, it would be perfect.

We could rule the world!

No one at my school knows who Stalin is. D:

Are you in grade school or the first two years of college and not a history major? If so, then get over it.

They don't tell you a lot of things in general history classes, but what they do is point out the biggest or most recognizable elements of history to give you a working knowledge ofthe subject. that's why you really hear about columbus and marco polo as opposed to the settlement of Vinland or Vasco da Gama.

The holocaust happens to be a very recognizable example of something which has happened a lot. When you get down to it, it's got the most press. And it has an emotional investment for a lot of people. I lost many family members in the holocaust. It gets attention better than some of the other occurrances of this sort. History teachers in these types of classes aren't going to give you every little detail about every moment in history. onwards!

The education system actively witholds information from students? bullshit. have you ever heard about learning on your own? they have these things called libraries that are there for people just like you, that wish to seek out knowledge outside of the classroom. That's also what specialized history courses are for. are your teachers somehow blocking you from getting this knowledge yourself? if not, then the only person you have to blame for not knowing about this stuff is yourself.

The reason the Holocaust is so important is that Hitler rose to power completely legally and his rise was resistable. In addition Germany was a place of enlightenment just years before it began. It is an important lesson for all to learn to know that they must be vigilant for legal tyrany and destruction.

I don't think learning about the genocide of the Jews will prevent a similar event from occuring, but it is important to remember this and analyze it...A similar situation occurred in WWI in Turkey...The Ottoman turks attempted to eliminate all Armenians...I'm surprised this isn't much discussed in school and not brought up in this discussion...

Quit being a bitch and do your schoolwork.

Quit being a bitch and do your schoolwork.
"Hail, Hitler."

Intresting topic, this is. I have no debate, but I agree that all of this is equally important to learn, and I look forward to it, being just a middle schooler.

"Hail, Hitler."

It's "Heil Hitler"

Don't ask me why I know.

It's "Heil Hitler"

Don't ask me why I know.
Interesting. I'm assuming "Hail" and "Heil" have different meanings? Anyone happen to know what "Heil" means in this context?

I'm curious because in the movie "Conspiracy," it's used as a salute amongst the high ranking Nazis at the secret meeting, and not as a cheer or what-have-you like I thought it was. And when they use it more as a salute when not saluting the Fuhrer, it doesn't make any sense to say "Hail."

Are you in grade school or the first two years of college and not a history major? If so, then get over it.

They don't tell you a lot of things in general history classes, but what they do is point out the biggest or most recognizable elements of history to give you a working knowledge ofthe subject. that's why you really hear about columbus and marco polo as opposed to the settlement of Vinland or Vasco da Gama.

The holocaust happens to be a very recognizable example of something which has happened a lot. When you get down to it, it's got the most press. And it has an emotional investment for a lot of people. I lost many family members in the holocaust. It gets attention better than some of the other occurrances of this sort. History teachers in these types of classes aren't going to give you every little detail about every moment in history. onwards!

The education system actively witholds information from students? bullshit. have you ever heard about learning on your own? they have these things called libraries that are there for people just like you, that wish to seek out knowledge outside of the classroom. That's also what specialized history courses are for. are your teachers somehow blocking you from getting this knowledge yourself? if not, then the only person you have to blame for not knowing about this stuff is yourself.

Actually, we don't really have a library. Due to budget cuts and all...well...you know the rest.

I'm just shocked and appalled how we are force-fed the Holocaust, while the kids still don't even know who Stalin, murderer of 60 million, is.

When they said Heil Hitler, it roughly translates into the Nazi version of "Long live the King!"

while the kids still don't even know who Stalin, murderer of 60 million, is.
Is it 60 million or 800,000? I've seen people saying both and no one has any sources.

I'm just shocked and appalled how we are force-fed the Holocaust
Watch "The Pianist," "Conspiracy," or there is one other movie whose name I can not think of at the moment, and you'll begin to have insight as to why the Holocaust is treated differently.

http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/warstat1.htm#Stalin

That's a link.

I already know about the Holocaust.

I read things called "NON-FICTION books", all the time.

I already know TONS about the Holocaust, (and lots of WWII).

Part of the reason we here so much about Hitler and the Jews is because there are subtle European biases in American schoolbooks.
As the majority of Americans are of European heritage, we tend to look at the events of Europe more than the rest of the world.
Some would even say that, in regards to the Japanese, European/Caucasian people expect it of non-whites.
While I'm not saying every white is a racist, its a matter of point-of-view and perspective: people tend to hold other people of the same ethnic group to a higher standard.
Plus, we had thought the Germans too civilized to blatantly murder 6 million Jews and 5 million others.

In regards to Stalin, he was our ally at that point, so we can't make him look worse than Hitler. Otherwise, people will say,'Why didn't we just join Hitler and beat Stalin?'

People are crazy like that.

http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/warstat1.htm#Stalin

That's a link.

I already know about the Holocaust.

I read things called "NON-FICTION books", all the time.

I already know TONS about the Holocaust, (and lots of WWII).
Watch the fucking movies. There's a purpose and a point to fact-based film that you absolutely can not grasp no matter how many statistics you hear.

"The Pianist," by the way, is a Holocaust survivor's story, and is directed by another Holocaust survivor.
"Conspiracy" is 99% factual. If you aren't concerned about who was or was not in uniform, or who was sitting in what position around the table, or what was served for lunch, that movie is 100% factual.

Watch the fucking movies. There's a purpose and a point to fact-based film that you absolutely can not grasp no matter how many statistics you hear.

"The Pianist," by the way, is a Holocaust survivor's story, and is directed by another Holocaust survivor.
"Conspiracy" is 99% factual. If you aren't concerned about who was or was not in uniform, or who was sitting in what position around the table, or what was served for lunch, that movie is 100% factual.

I doubt it. I'm not touched by movies. Gory pictures touches me more. VERY gory pictures.

I doubt it. I'm not touched by movies. Gory pictures touches me more. VERY gory pictures.
You're refusing to watch the movies because 1. you think the holocaust is less important than the attrocities of Stalin and 2. you're not touched by movies.

First, 1. is hypocrtical, because I'm telling you these movies illustrate the difference for you. They capture the intangibles that any and all non-fiction work you read will never capture (however, keep in mind, I'm not really talking about fictional stories here...).

Second, 2. I didn't think I was very "touched" by movies either. Then I watched "The Pianist."

You're refusing to watch the movies because 1. you think the holocaust is less important than the attrocities of Stalin and 2. you're not touched by movies.

First, 1. is hypocrtical, because I'm telling you these movies illustrate the difference for you. They capture the intangibles that any and all non-fiction work you read will never capture (however, keep in mind, I'm not really talking about fictional stories here...).

Second, 2. I didn't think I was very "touched" by movies either. Then I watched "The Pianist."

That, and I'm on a REALLY tight budget, and I can't afford movies. D:

If no one remembers, it's as if it never happened.
-Serial Experiments Lain (?)

It is good that war is so terrible; lest we grow too fond of it.
-Gen. Robert E. Lee

That, and I'm on a REALLY tight budget, and I can't afford movies. D:
You can't rent?

You can't rent?

No. I'm flat out broke.

I am not sure how many Stalin actually ordered to death. Maybe 1 or 2 million? Still the number is staggering. Numbers like 20-60 million are due to famines and other failed economic policies. I guess that does'nt make them any less dead though.

Hitler actually ordered 10 million people to death and had plans to kill many more. In my eyes Hilter will always be much worse then stalin, although I hate them both.

But i did find an interesting( yet sadistic) example of Stalin's Character

"When Josef Stalin was on his deathbed he called in two likely successors, to test which one of the two had a better knack for ruling the country.

He ordered two birds to be brought in and presented one bird to each of the two candidates.

The first one grabbed the bird, but was so afraid that the bird could free himself from his grip and fly away that he squeezed his hand very hard, and when he opened his palm, the bird was dead.

Seeing the disapproving look on Stalin's face and being afraid to repeat his rival's mistake, the second candidate loosened his grip so much that the bird freed himself and flew away.

Stalin looked at both of them scornfully. "Bring me a bird!" he ordered.

They did.

Stalin took the bird by its legs and slowly, one by one, he plucked all the feathers from the bird's little body.

Then he opened his palm. The bird was laying there naked, shivering, helpless.

Stalin looked at him, smiled gently and said, "You see... and he is even thankful for the human warmth coming out of my palm."

But i did find an interesting( yet sadistic) example of Stalin's Character

"When Josef Stalin was on his deathbed he called in two likely successors, to test which one of the two had a better knack for ruling the country.

He ordered two birds to be brought in and presented one bird to each of the two candidates.

The first one grabbed the bird, but was so afraid that the bird could free himself from his grip and fly away that he squeezed his hand very hard, and when he opened his palm, the bird was dead.

Seeing the disapproving look on Stalin's face and being afraid to repeat his rival's mistake, the second candidate loosened his grip so much that the bird freed himself and flew away.

Stalin looked at both of them scornfully. "Bring me a bird!" he ordered.

They did.

Stalin took the bird by its legs and slowly, one by one, he plucked all the feathers from the bird's little body.

Then he opened his palm. The bird was laying there naked, shivering, helpless.

Stalin looked at him, smiled gently and said, "You see... and he is even thankful for the human warmth coming out of my palm."

I, umm, that happened... yeah. Honest.

Because we give WAAAAY too much attention to the Holocaust.

We don't have to read anything about Stalin (killer of up to 60 million people).

We don't have to read about Japanese Massacres on the Chinse (killing about 15 million people, in methods far more gruesome then the holocaust. Unit 731 makes Gas Chambers look VERY humane..)

We didn't have to read about the deaths in the Red Revolution, where more then 9 million dead.

And NOTHING at all about WWI OR WWII.

We read about the Holocaust, and we don't even tell our students what WWII was.

You Sir, have a shit school.

Being forced to read tons of books about the Holocaust today, is VERY offensive to me. I mean, is anyone else offended about having to read SOO much about the Holocaust?

Only if you are a Hitler wanna-be. Dont get me wrong, he was a good speaker to convince so many to do his bidding, and the Germans are no more evil than any other humans in general. But to seek annihalation of a race ? If you dont think that is something important not to repeat....

Any head skrinkers around ? Send this one an e-buisness card.

You find it offensive and boring?? Strange. I found it horrifying, humbling and thought provoking. And I"m not sure what to think of your school - I certainly learned about all the things you mentioned in my history classes and they were all given equal weight. As someone suggested, either you are not paying attention or your school sucks.

NO. People are people, no matter what. They're all the same. I find no reason why the Holocaust is more important?

it's the difference between political massacre (which is a common event through all of history) and racial genocide (which happens but is not as common).

it's not about making you recoil at terrible things or about deciding what the worst thing in the history of the world was. it's about making sure you understand why we fought this particular war and why it's probably the only war in recent memory that was necessary and just that we were involved in.

you get more on world war two than on world war one because world war one was a big stupid mess and world war two had a legitimate point. so, instead of growing up thinking "gee, we sure did kill a lot of people in the first world war for no apparent reason", you grow up thinking "we are the salvation of the world."

you don't hear as much about stalin because it doesn't affect america directly and the cold war's over now. people a little older than you heard a whole lot about stalin because it was politically advantageous to have you learn about what the enemy did. you can be very sure that the soviets pointed out hiroshima to every single one of their students.

you don't hear about the armenian massacre because your country was in no way involved.

you don't hear about smallpox blankets and the native american genocide, which is probably the largest genocide in the history of mankind, because it's gonna make you angry with your culture and heritage.

history class is meant to indoctrinate you more than educate you. in the case of really making you understand the holocaust, i have no qualms with that, myself.

One important thing about the Holocaust is that it was committed by a western culture, and so provides us with a more important lesson than atrocities committed by other cultures. From what I've heard, the Japanese have done very little about facing up to the dark side of their own culture. So the massacre of Chinese you mention is very important, but should be more of a lesson to the Japanese.

It's a horrible tragedy that millions of people died, but I say..

JOIN THE CLUB. THERE ARE MANY OTHER MASSACRES WHERE MORE AND EQUAL NUMBERS OF PEOPLE DIED! What makes it so that your massacre deserves more attention?

Are 10 million jews worth MORe then 60 million russians?

Are 10 million Jews worth MORE then 15 million Chinese?

NO. People are people, no matter what. They're all the same. I find no reason why the Holocaust is more important?

I agree with you here, but if you had pointed it out in your first post it would have had more impact.

I too have noticed that there is a massive emphasis on the holocaust in the education system whereas events like the Armenian Massacre are lcompletely ignored. Frankly I think it is counter productive - the more they drove it into our heads whilst ignoring equally important events in history, the less everyone cared. By the end where we were forced to go on a field trip to a holocaust survivors museum, the vast majority of people were bored stiff and payed no attention.

People forget why the Holocaust is so well known.

The rape of Nanking, the Soviet "cleansing", etc were done and cleaned up. We only had accounts and some photos of what went on.

In the matter of the Holocaust, we had soldiers that liberated the camps. There was film. We have survivors still living. I have met a few....

My uncle liberated two minor camps and what he saw fucked him up for the rest of his life. You hear relatives talking about it; you kind of wonder about it since it had such an impression of them. We can only guess what it was like to see those people.

Also, the other massacres. Were they planned Genocide? I remember a teacher who had a great aunt who escaped the Armenian Massacre with his mother. The Turks didn't kill her. They tossed her on a truck and then a ship.

To compare the two? How many Armenians do you know? (speaking for the US) How many Jews do you know?

For Americans, it is ancient history. If you look WWI has slowly moved into Ancient History. People recognize the name and probably can name a battle or two mainly because they watched some movie that mentioned it. How many Americans heard of Gallipoli before that movie came out?

What is kind of sad is WWII is starting to get viewed as ancient history as our relatives die off.

Fact is people are concerned about massacres from a distance. Unless it directly impacts them, its not their problem. How many schools have lessons about Rwanda?

Quoting from Hotel Rwanda(not exact).
"People will look at the film(news footage) and say 'My God that is horrible' and then they will go back to eating their dinner."

Excellent film if you haven't seen it.

Unfortunly the over focus on the holocaust happens, I balive a GCSE class should cover the war more thoughrley than just....Hitler attacks Poland....battle of Britian....Holocaust....D-Day...Holocaust....we win. I think that the scope of history that we cover in Britian at GCSE is far to narrow, i knew all the stuff I was taught in History when I was 9!

And that brings me to another point. The overreprensation of the Holocaust in popular culture.

There are loads of Holocaust movies and stuff.

There are barely any movies on any other mass murder or massacre in the entire film industry. Red Revolution? Nah. Stalin's Murders? Nah. The Army of Japan's War Crimes? Nah.

The closest you can get is Animal Farm for Stalin, and you get nothing for the other stuff.
Erm... So, what about Stalinism in mass culture? I recommend Kakaya chudnaya igra (What a Wonderful Game) by Pyotr Todorovsky (filmed in 1995). Utomlyonnye solntsem (Burnt by the Sun) (1994) will do, too, although I despise Mikhalkov. :) I don't recommend Est - Ouest (1999) by Warnier, but it is an example of a Western film about Stalinism.


http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/warstat1.htm#Stalin

That's a link.

...
This link underscores the fact that we Russians know too well--no one knows how many people died under Stalin. The number is somewhere between 600,000 and 62,000,000, that's for sure.

I am sickened to read the ravings of idiots who constantly try to devalue the depraved crimes of the most evil ideology in human history by claiming that more people were killed in other circumstances. The claim about 60 million in Russia is a gross exaggeration but even if it wasn't it wouldn't make learning about the Holocaust any less important and certainly doesn't make the Nazis any less evil. I believe it is absolutely essential that we never forget about the horrors of the Holocaust and it is a fact that when more people are aware of them the chance of something similar happening again is greatly reduced.

Please don't talk about things you don't know anything about, my grandfather was chinese and he went back to China to help the nation, he was killed by a @!#@! Japanese general who thought it would be fun to hold a head chopping contest. The Japanese were worse then Nazis at least Hitler actually had a reason to be an a$#!@#. The Japanese did it for fun. They even used babies for gun shot practices. So please don't say anything if you don't have enough respect to research this subject. A lot of Chinese were directly killed and the Japanese got kicks out of using biological weapons to poison farming fields in order to start those famines.

I've read accounts of this. The Chinese did suffer terribly at the hands of the Japanese. There are thousands of accounts of brutal torture and killings of Chinese men,women and children-and it often sounds as if it was just for kicks.
I read accounts of dissections being performed on live, unanesthetized Chinese victims, tests of biological agents introduced to well water in China-many terrible things done against the Chinese by the Japanese.
Most of which wont make it into text books.

My 12 yr old son spent almost an entire quarter on the Holocaust last year. He will likely study it again this year. Its very unlikely he would ever be a part of "history repeating itself". He had two great grandfathers fight the Nazis in WWII. Another good friend was one of the first US soldiers into Dachau. Teach the holocaust in a proportionate amount of time. I'd rather he spent more time learning about almost anything else. The holocaust wont help him get a job or be a better person.
Teach the holocaust studies in length in Germany.

Being forced to read tons of books about the Holocaust today, is VERY offensive to me. I mean, is anyone else offended about having to read SOO much about the Holocaust?
I do hope you're just making a joke about how stupid Political Correctness and not "offending" people are.

You're refusing to watch the movies because 1. you think the holocaust is less important than the attrocities of Stalin and 2. you're not touched by movies.

First, 1. is hypocrtical, because I'm telling you these movies illustrate the difference for you. They capture the intangibles that any and all non-fiction work you read will never capture (however, keep in mind, I'm not really talking about fictional stories here...).

Second, 2. I didn't think I was very "touched" by movies either. Then I watched "The Pianist."


Schindler's List.

I have never cried during a movie before that, or after.

I think that was the best description of the Holocaust in a movie. All of the atrocities stand out in my mind.

(The Pianist was good, but Schindler's List tops it.)

I have never really had a glass that talked much about it. In high school we made passing references to it when we discussed WWII and I had a college lit class that went more over what life was like for the half and quarter Jews living in Nazi Germany. Others have to go into the history of the camps in detail?

The changes between the holocaust and the large amount of deaths in Soviet Russia and China is that, where the 'commies' just didn't take much value in a human life and where too paranoid, the Nazis worked very structured to annihilate a entire people. Orchestration is more horrible then neglecting.

I was watching this documentry about the hitler youth and they actually had day trips to the concentration camps.

Up to 60 milllion civilian casulaties caused by Stalin himself. Things like the Five-Year Plan, the secret police. I mean, the Secret Police was so much of a mass murderer, telegrams like "Telegram: 10,000 exterminated" and that would be all you'd hear.

yeah, didn't entire towns cease to exist because of Stalin?

WHAT THE FUCK?

Liberal = Communism?
Republican = Fascism?
Fluffenutter = Peanut Butter and Jelly?

think about it... communism is a leftist ideology. and yes, many of the more left-wing americans call republicans "fascists". Even if it is not true (it isn't... probably most Repubs would be shocked by many fascist policies, while most Dems would be shocked with some Communist policies), if the association is there, it can be proliferated.

... the repub/fascist association (though generally wrong) may be given bad connotations by harping on the evils of Hitler and Mussolini... while the evils of Communists (remember some repubs' mostly faulty comparison of communism to american liberalism?) are intentionally overlooked.

I was watching this documentry about the hitler youth and they actually had day trips to the concentration camps.

In the class I mentioned now that i think about it, we did watch Leni Riefenstahl's Triumph of the Will. How she could claim it being a documentary and not propaganda is beyond me. All that Seig Heil! can really sicken a person.

I don't mind READING and LEARNING about the Holocaust. It was a few sick people, not all Germany, that hated it. The reasons why I don't like being TOLD about the Holocaust is:

1: PEOPLE ARE BRAINWASHED! Nobody listens to what the ALLIES did in the war, such as, killing 100,000 people in Dresden, in only a few raids, dropping the atom bombs, raping 50,000+ German women in Berlin alone, and executing even CONSCRIPTS into the German army.

2: We don't learn about JAPANESE atrocities. We don't learn about communist Russia's tragedy's. We don't learn about what I mentioned above.

3: EVERYONE BLAMES GERMANY! IT WAS NOT GERMANY'S FAULT! All we knew when we elected Hitler was that he would turn the economy around, which he did. We didn't know what he'd do later.

4: MOST OF THOSE 6 MILLION JEWS WERE GERMAN JEWS! Most of them probably would have FOUGHT for Hitler!

5: Nobody mentions that Hitler was born in Austria, to a half-Austrian family, and it was in AUSTRIA, not GERMANY, that he learned his anti-Semetism from.

6: Anti-Semetism was quite common back then. Many British, French, Russian, and Americans were Anti-Semetist. Not to the same extent as Hitler, but they don't want to tarnish the reputation they drill into people.

1 yes
2 yes
3 NO! oh yes "we" (i'm german) knew or at least could have known damn well. hitler wrote mein kampf BEFORE he ever took any office, and its all in there, about needing to extinguish the jews and just everything.
4 i do not think that most jews, gays, roma+sinti, "communists" etc would have fought for hitler just because they may have been german. german=hitler-follower is wrong.
5 the fact that hitler was austrian does not in any way excuse the behavior of any german person who followed him and his ideologies. plus, a person doesn't "learn" anti-semitism from a COUNTRY.
6 just cuz a lot of people thought in a certain way doesn't mean it makes those people who beliveed it as well and acted on it any better.

I don't like reading about the holocaust because its depressing I mean every year I would go to some class feeling great and leave felling suicidal (I tell you its not fun when you just heard a hilarious joke)

for god sakes people I don't think showing little children how people were brutally murdered is good for a developing mind

I was watching this documentry about the hitler youth and they actually had day trips to the concentration camps.That I find hard to believe. The Nazis did their darndest to keep those things secret.

I don't like reading about the holocaust because its depressing I mean every year I would go to some class feeling great and leave felling suicidal (I tell you its not fun when you just heard a hilarious joke)

for god sakes people I don't think showing little children how people were brutally murdered is good for a developing mindYou need to break them in early enough. Try going to a concentration camp at age ten and looking at pictures of dismembered bodies and lampshades made of human skin because the tattoos were so cool.

I don't mind READING and LEARNING about the Holocaust. It was a few sick people, not all Germany, that hated it. The reasons why I don't like being TOLD about the Holocaust is:

1: PEOPLE ARE BRAINWASHED! Nobody listens to what the ALLIES did in the war, such as, killing 100,000 people in Dresden, in only a few raids, dropping the atom bombs, raping 50,000+ German women in Berlin alone, and executing even CONSCRIPTS into the German army.

2: We don't learn about JAPANESE atrocities. We don't learn about communist Russia's tragedy's. We don't learn about what I mentioned above.

3: EVERYONE BLAMES GERMANY! IT WAS NOT GERMANY'S FAULT! All we knew when we elected Hitler was that he would turn the economy around, which he did. We didn't know what he'd do later.

4: MOST OF THOSE 6 MILLION JEWS WERE GERMAN JEWS! Most of them probably would have FOUGHT for Hitler!

5: Nobody mentions that Hitler was born in Austria, to a half-Austrian family, and it was in AUSTRIA, not GERMANY, that he learned his anti-Semetism from.

6: Anti-Semetism was quite common back then. Many British, French, Russian, and Americans were Anti-Semetist. Not to the same extent as Hitler, but they don't want to tarnish the reputation they drill into people.


Okay.....

How about this:

1. Yes, the dresden massacre was horrible, but how about the bombing of London? Many people died in what looked like a neverending assault against a defensless city. Yes, defensless, since the Royal Air Force was decimated. Or how about Lidice and Ležáky? Villages razed from the ground as punishment for Reinhard Heydrich's death? 1 person dies and 1300 pay?!
2.Fine. This one is true. Only people that search can know about the true massacres of Stalin and the Japanese Empire. In this point, i concede.
3.Riiight. Go look at hitler's speeches. He practically said so to the people. Don't believe me? Fine. Go look at http://www.holocaust-history.org/himmler-poznan/ausrotten.shtml
4.Bullshit. On the Holocaust 11 million died. 5.1 to 6.0 were jews. 3.0 to 3.5 were POLISH. Of those left, only 100.000 were of german origin.
5.Who doesn't know that?? Only a moron that knows nothing of the holocaust?
6.Wrong again. Yes, there was antisemitism on those countries, but until, and only until france and parts of russia were conquered, were jews of that place condemned to death. Until then, they were left alone. And it was the british that initially gave Palestine to the jews to make the State of Israel.

I've read accounts of this. The Chinese did suffer terribly at the hands of the Japanese. There are thousands of accounts of brutal torture and killings of Chinese men,women and children-and it often sounds as if it was just for kicks.
I read accounts of dissections being performed on live, unanesthetized Chinese victims, tests of biological agents introduced to well water in China-many terrible things done against the Chinese by the Japanese.
Most of which wont make it into text books.


Exactly.

When you look at it, the Concentration Camps were actually humane compared to this.

Gas Chambers>>>torturing everyone to death.

And what's sickening, is that the leader of Unit 731, (a unit that tortured and brutally killled tens and thousands of Chinese Peasants, and American POWs,) was acquitted by the United States of America.

1. Yes, the dresden massacre was horrible, but how about the bombing of London? Many people died in what looked like a neverending assault against a defensless city. Yes, defensless, since the Royal Air Force was decimated. Or how about Lidice and Ležáky? Villages razed from the ground as punishment for Reinhard Heydrich's death? 1 person dies and 1300 pay?!While you're perfectly right with the Heydrich example, there were about 8 to 9 Germans killed by Allied bombing for every Briton that lost their life (including the missiles, I think).

3.Riiight. Go look at hitler's speeches. He practically said so to the people. Don't believe me? Fine. Go look at http://www.holocaust-history.org/himmler-poznan/ausrotten.shtmlHe wrote a book about what he'd do too. It talked about attacking Russia and whatnot. Called it "Mein Kampf".
4.Bullshit. On the Holocaust 11 million died. 5.1 to 6.0 were jews. 3.0 to 3.5 were POLISH. Of those left, only 100.000 were of german origin.Can you back up the only 100,000 number? I'm not sure about it, but I doubt there were only 100,000 German jews. Anyway, he does have a point, many Jews considered themselves Germans with Jewish heritage. A lot of them were outraged when their own or their fathers' names were struck off WWI memorials.
6.Wrong again. Yes, there was antisemitism on those countries, but until, and only until france and parts of russia were conquered, were jews of that place condemned to death. Until then, they were left alone. And it was the british that initially gave Palestine to the jews to make the State of Israel.Exactly. NONE of these did anything comparable to the German concentration camps until the Germans built some there. Russia, however, did have a history of enacting pogroms against Jews, however... But they did it to Russia-Germans too.

Okay.....

How about this:

1. Yes, the dresden massacre was horrible, but how about the bombing of London? Many people died in what looked like a neverending assault against a defensless city. Yes, defensless, since the Royal Air Force was decimated. Or how about Lidice and Ležáky? Villages razed from the ground as punishment for Reinhard Heydrich's death? 1 person dies and 1300 pay?!


ACtually, the deaths in London were far under that of the Death at Dresden.

43,000 died in London.

The bombing of Dresden killed 60,000.

The bombing of Tokyo far exceeded 100,000.

The Hamburg bombings exceeded 50,000.

Hmm...

215,000 vs. 45,000.

Which side massacred more people?

Hmm....

Exactly.

When you look at it, the Concentration Camps were actually humane compared to this.

Gas Chambers>>>torturing everyone to death.

And what's sickening, is that the leader of Unit 731, (a unit that tortured and brutally killled tens and thousands of Chinese Peasants, and American POWs,) was acquitted by the United States of America.

The sicker reason is the U.S acquitted them because they gave the medical knowledge collected to the U.S...

The sicker reason is the U.S acquitted them because they gave the medical knowledge collected to the U.S...

Yeah. Acquitt him, when you get the medical knowledge, imprison him again, and deal some justice out.

ACtually, the deaths in London were far under that of the Death at Dresden.

43,000 died in London.

The bombing of Dresden killed 60,000.

The bombing of Tokyo far exceeded 100,000.

The Hamburg bombings exceeded 50,000.

Hmm...

215,000 vs. 45,000.

Which side massacred more people?

Hmm....

However their is a big difference in your argument if you read books some which are written by Japanese authors mind you. You'll see that the Japanese used elementary school children to build fortifications for Japan and armed a large militia of citizens too. Big difference between the British who were just trying to stay alive. If you don't believe me you can check out books on teh atom bomb written by Japanese authors and you'll see that they really did that.

You need to break them in early enough. Try going to a concentration camp at age ten and looking at pictures of dismembered bodies and lampshades made of human skin because the tattoos were so cool.

Meh. I first saw stuff like that when I was 12. Trust me, the Japanese Massacres were far more unsettling.

Also, 11 million people died in the Holocaust.

Only 6 million were jews.

However, we ONLY hear about Jews being killed.

Jews this, Jews that.

Other people died to. Not just Jews.

Exactly.

When you look at it, the Concentration Camps were actually humane compared to this.

Gas Chambers>>>torturing everyone to death.

And what's sickening, is that the leader of Unit 731, (a unit that tortured and brutally killled tens and thousands of Chinese Peasants, and American POWs,) was acquitted by the United States of America.You know nothing about the holocaust, do you? Ever heard of Dr. Mengele from Auschwitz? What do you think the basis of American medicine is? I'll tell you: SS doctors experimenting on inmates. Apart from "logical" experiments (like what is necessary or helpful to revive someone suffering from hypothermia due to being in cold water) there were plenty of insane experiments involving twins that he'd do. And that's only Auschwitz.
And what's this gas chambers > than torture bullshit? The gas chambers weren't installed until after the Wannsee Conference in which said idea was explored and decided. Before then, the plan was working everyone to death under the banner of "Arbeit macht frei".

But I guess that those things didn't make it into your history books either.

You know nothing about the holocaust, do you? Ever heard of Dr. Mengele from Auschwitz? What do you think the basis of American medicine is? I'll tell you: SS doctors experimenting on inmates. Apart from "logical" experiments (like what is necessary or helpful to revive someone suffering from hypothermia due to being in cold water) there were plenty of insane experiments involving twins that he'd do. And that's only Auschwitz.
And what's this gas chambers > than torture bullshit? The gas chambers weren't installed until after the Wannsee Conference in which said idea was explored and decided. Before then, the plan was working everyone to death under the banner of "Arbeit macht frei".

But I guess that those things didn't make it into your history books either.

Thats what were saying its sickening that people can get away with stuff just because they bribe their way out with medical research
:sniper: !$!# as!#!@#s

Can you back up the only 100,000 number? I'm not sure about it, but I doubt there were only 100,000 German jews.

Actually, there were 500.000 german jews living before the war. Less than 1% of the german population. Of those, close to 100.000 died.

http://history1900s.about.com/library/holocaust/bldied.htm

You know nothing about the holocaust, do you? Ever heard of Dr. Mengele from Auschwitz? What do you think the basis of American medicine is? I'll tell you: SS doctors experimenting on inmates. Apart from "logical" experiments (like what is necessary or helpful to revive someone suffering from hypothermia due to being in cold water) there were plenty of insane experiments involving twins that he'd do. And that's only Auschwitz.
And what's this gas chambers > than torture bullshit? The gas chambers weren't installed until after the Wannsee Conference in which said idea was explored and decided. Before then, the plan was working everyone to death under the banner of "Arbeit macht frei".

But I guess that those things didn't make it into your history books either.

And yet, working everyone to death sorta sounds like what STALIN did.

Joseph Mengele? Sounds like what the JAPANESE did.

Seriously, the Nazi Concentration Camps, were almost identical to the deeds of Russia and Japan, except they were done for different reasons.

Meh. I first saw stuff like that when I was 12. Trust me, the Japanese Massacres were far more unsettling.You must have missed something then.

Also, 11 million people died in the Holocaust.

Only 6 million were jews.And? Have you any statistics for what the other people were? 6 million is more than half and way more than any other group

However, we ONLY hear about Jews being killed.

Jews this, Jews that.

Other people died to. Not just Jews.Considering that that's pretty much all the Nazis talked about (Jews are to blame for this, Jews are to blame for that) I'm not surprised that Jews are all we hear about. They were the most hunted group of people out there.

However their is a big difference in your argument if you read books some which are written by Japanese authors mind you. You'll see that the Japanese used elementary school children to build fortifications for Japan and armed a large militia of citizens too. Big difference between the British who were just trying to stay alive. If you don't believe me you can check out books on teh atom bomb written by Japanese authors and you'll see that they really did that.

The British were trying to stay alive, UNTIL they go onto the offensive.

The Defensive basically means trying to stay alive. It's always been like that.

After the tide turned in the Allied Favor, the Germans started just trying to stay alive, because they were on the DEFENSIVE.

Defensive=trying to stay alive.

Offensive=trying to kill the guy who's trying to stay alive.

Because we give WAAAAY too much attention to the Holocaust.

We don't have to read anything about Stalin (killer of up to 60 million people).

We don't have to read about Japanese Massacres on the Chinse (killing about 15 million people, in methods far more gruesome then the holocaust. Unit 731 makes Gas Chambers look VERY humane..)

We didn't have to read about the deaths in the Red Revolution, where more then 9 million dead.

And NOTHING at all about WWI OR WWII.

We read about the Holocaust, and we don't even tell our students what WWII was.



Genocide is a terrible, terrible thing. But memocide ( attempted to be practiced by Stalin) is frankly quite lovely!

Though I would like the demonization of the Germans to end. WWI and it's aftermath were the largest causes of both the holocaust and WWII. And to this, we can blame Slovakian anarchists (or Austrian imperialists, depending on your perspective), the British, and the French, and their horribly excessive reparations. We can also attribute the tone of the Russian revolution (which I'm a personal fan of) and the rise of Stalin on this war as well. As well as a future communist country destroyed by fascism (Spain). Damn, that war really took a bite out of us didn't it?

Also, the Germans get demonized even though Americans were practicing the very same Eugenics movement that they were. Just some thoughts

And yet, working everyone to death sorta sounds like what STALIN did.

Joseph Mengele? Sounds like what the JAPANESE did.

Seriously, the Nazi Concentration Camps, were almost identical to the deeds of Russia and Japan, except they were done for different reasons.The Russians didn't work people to death, they merely took it into account. The Concentration Camps were PLANNED to slowly work people to death with intense labor and too few rations. It was calculated how little food could be given in order to just barely keep people alive. Compare the pictures of a gulag and a concentration camp and the people will look worse in a concentration camp.

As for Mengele: So you agree that the Nazis did plenty of what the Japanese did in the camps too? And don't forget that the Germans ravaged countries like the Japanese ravaged China.

You must have missed something then.

And? Have you any statistics for what the other people were? 6 million is more than half and way more than any other group

Considering that that's pretty much all the Nazis talked about (Jews are to blame for this, Jews are to blame for that) I'm not surprised that Jews are all we hear about. They were the most hunted group of people out there.

6 million isn't much more then 5 million, but all we hear about is the Jew being killed.

You'd THINK that even one person WOULDN'T be a Jew, but....no.

It's just true, but the Jews are overrepresented in the Media.

You must have missed something then.

And? Have you any statistics for what the other people were? 6 million is more than half and way more than any other group

Considering that that's pretty much all the Nazis talked about (Jews are to blame for this, Jews are to blame for that) I'm not surprised that Jews are all we hear about. They were the most hunted group of people out there.


Why isn't anyone complaining about all the poor communists who were killed? We're just compassionate people looking to hack your boss to pieces in the street! Why neglect us?

Meh. I first saw stuff like that when I was 12. Trust me, the Japanese Massacres were far more unsettling.

Also, 11 million people died in the Holocaust.

Only 6 million were jews.

However, we ONLY hear about Jews being killed.

Jews this, Jews that.

Other people died to. Not just Jews.


Yes, of the 11 million, 6 were jews and 5 were others. But here's the thing.
In the words of Elie Wiesel, jew, survivor and Nobel Price winner for Peace: "Yes, there were other victims, but we were the victims's victims also

Why? Because Poland (most of the others were from this country) was full of antisemitism!! There were thousands upon thousands of polish happy with the relocation and "sanitizing" of the jews! Not only did the rid themselves of the "filthy jew", they also kept their property. There's a lot of accounts of survivors returning to their houses, only to be asked "Didn't Hitler kill you?" and beaten to death afterwards.

6 million isn't much more then 5 million, but all we hear about is the Jew being killed.

You'd THINK that even one person WOULDN'T be a Jew, but....no.

It's just true, but the Jews are overrepresented in the Media.The reason for that is that the Jews were overrepresented in the media back then too. And if you have such a problem with only Jews being mentioned do some PR work TELLING people that it wasn't just Jews. Put some effort into it.

The Russians didn't work people to death, they merely took it into account. The Concentration Camps were PLANNED to slowly work people to death with intense labor and too few rations. It was calculated how little food could be given in order to just barely keep people alive. Compare the pictures of a gulag and a concentration camp and the people will look worse in a concentration camp.

As for Mengele: So you agree that the Nazis did plenty of what the Japanese did in the camps too? And don't forget that the Germans ravaged countries like the Japanese ravaged China.

Exactly. So how come we never hear about Japan?

The Intent of the Holocaust may be different from Russia's and Japan, but the end was the same. Exactly the same. And we NEVER hear about either.

Actually, you could make Japan look worse, as German Soldiers were under order to do so by corrupt Nazi officials higher up them them, while Japanese Soldiers killed and tortured civilians for fun, even when higher-ups protested.

Yes, of the 11 million, 6 were jews and 5 were others. But here's the thing.
In the words of Elie Wiesel, jew, survivor and Nobel Price winner for Peace: "Yes, there were other victims, but we were the victims's victims also

Why? Because Poland (most of the others were from this country) was full of antisemitism!! There were thousands upon thousands of polish happy with the relocation and "sanitizing" of the jews! Not only did the rid themselves of the "filthy jew", they also kept their property. There's a lot of accounts of survivors returning to their houses, only to be asked "Didn't Hitler kill you?" and beaten to death afterwards.

The Polish hated everyone. They executed Ethnic Germans, Ethnic Jews, just basically everyone but the Polish.

6 million isn't much more then 5 million, but all we hear about is the Jew being killed.

You'd THINK that even one person WOULDN'T be a Jew, but....no.

It's just true, but the Jews are overrepresented in the Media.


You have just shown your true face. Only Neo-Nazis complain about jewish world domination. Though I agree (in some senses, not about Jews deserving death, it's just that they are part of the Bourgeoisie, and that I am very much opposed to). I'm happy to see a large portion of the Bourgeoisie attacked, though it's terrible that the excuse was Eugenics and religion. I'd have been much happier if they just gone after the entirety of the Bourgeoisie.

Exactly. So how come we never hear about Japan?

The Intent of the Holocaust may be different from Russia's and Japan, but the end was the same. Exactly the same. And we NEVER hear about either.

Actually, you could make Japan look worse, as German Soldiers were under order to do so by corrupt Nazi officials higher up them them, while Japanese Soldiers killed and tortured civilians for fun, even when higher-ups protested.I hardly hear about Japan because I live in Europe, and the European theater is a bit more important. I do hear about it though.
Also, a German soldier might be ordered to kill, but torture is a bit different. Being ordered to shoot a civilian is one thing, but being ordered to rape someone probably didn't happen that often, so I doubt that there are any torturers out there that got it forced on them.

Exactly. So how come we never hear about Japan?

The Intent of the Holocaust may be different from Russia's and Japan, but the end was the same. Exactly the same. And we NEVER hear about either.

Actually, you could make Japan look worse, as German Soldiers were under order to do so by corrupt Nazi officials higher up them them, while Japanese Soldiers killed and tortured civilians for fun, even when higher-ups protested.

true if you read history books you'll see that Japan had the highest torture and execution rates. Not only that but surrendering to the Japanese didn't mean you were going to be a live. The Japanese were pychos who thought that anyone who surrendered was trash, thats why they took pleasure in torturing forces who didn't fight to the death or were captured.

Interesting tad bit: After Japan surrendered half the military commited suicide rather then try to help the country get started again

Exactly. So how come we never hear about Japan?

The Intent of the Holocaust may be different from Russia's and Japan, but the end was the same. Exactly the same. And we NEVER hear about either.

Actually, you could make Japan look worse, as German Soldiers were under order to do so by corrupt Nazi officials higher up them them, while Japanese Soldiers killed and tortured civilians for fun, even when higher-ups protested.


Thank you, but no. The Russian purges (while misguided) were at least intended to go against the one group who actually is deserving in all of this memocidal mess (the Bourgeoisie, naturally).

You have just shown your true face. Only Neo-Nazis complain about jewish world domination. Though I agree (in some senses, not about Jews deserving death, it's just that they are part of the Bourgeoisie, and that I am very much opposed to). I'm happy to see a large portion of the Bourgeoisie attacked, though it's terrible that the excuse was Eugenics and religion. I'd have been much happier if they just gone after the entirety of the Bourgeoisie.

I'm speechless.

This here is a man who supports the complete extermination of the upper class.

There is no room in America for Commies like you.

*runs you over with Panzer*

Bwahahaha.

I'll try to stay tuned in for as long as I can, but my battery is about to die... :(

true if you read history books you'll see that Japan had the highest torture and execution rates. Not only that but surrendering to the Japanese didn't mean you were going to be a live. The Japanese were pychos who thought that anyone who surrendered was trash, thats why they took pleasure in torturing forces who didn't fight to the death or were captured.

Interesting tad bit: After Japan surrendered half the military commited suicide rather then try to help the country get started again

The Japanese Concept of Bushido, was taken too far.

My teacher told me a lot about Japan, despite the administration got really pissed with him for doing that.

Japanese soldiers didn't believe in surrender. In Japanese Culture, it was acceptable for a Samurai and expected, to just whack off the head of anyone who wasn't showing proper respect.

It's amazing how Japanese Culture progressed so much in 60 years, turning from blood-thirsty maniacs...to not blood-thirsty maniacs...mostly.

Being forced to read tons of books about the Holocaust today, is VERY offensive to me. I mean, is anyone else offended about having to read SOO much about the Holocaust?

My only problem with history teaching (in Britain at any rate) is the WWII centricity of it. History is more than just a 6 year war. I would like to see children up til the age of 16 (year 11, last year of comprehensive) learn about something from classical history (Rome and Greece but also maybe a bit of Celtic), Dark Ages (Saxons, Vikings) medieval (Hastings, Plague, Peasants Revolt and Hundred Years War), Renaissance (Reformation, English Civil War particularly), and the colonial days alongside WWI and WWII for that will allow the state to distribute self-recognition rather than any right wing extremists.

But as for the holocaust, of course it should be taught, and I am more concerned as to how could you be offended by it being taught?

Actually, they did that not out of selfishness, but of following their code of Bushido. A warrior cannot survive his own defeat. Not that i'm defending their acts, of course.

Of course I'm just commenting on the stupidity of that code. It not only inspired them to commit horrible acts against innocent people (because they didn't fight) but it also was hurtful to the country since they would rather just kill themselves then regroup

The Japanese Concept of Bushido, was taken too far.

My teacher told me a lot about Japan, despite the administration got really pissed with him for doing that.

Japanese soldiers didn't believe in surrender. In Japanese Culture, it was acceptable for a Samurai and expected, to just whack off the head of anyone who wasn't showing proper respect.

It's amazing how Japanese Culture progressed so much in 60 years, turning from blood-thirsty maniacs...to not blood-thirsty maniacs...mostly.Samurais were made away with roughly at the time Bismarck founded the German Empire.

I'm speechless.

This here is a man who supports the complete extermination of the upper class.

There is no room in America for Commies like you.

*runs you over with Panzer*

Bwahahaha.


Better them than me. Since genocide and memocide were the tone of those times, I'd have rather the upper-class bit it than a scapegoat like the Jews or the Gypsies. If you'll notice, the only people suffering through the holocaust were the lower classes (except the Jews, but they were targeted for Eugenical reasons). At least the Russians tried to stir things up a bit. You know, get some honest blood into the hands of power.

My only problem with history teaching (in Britain at any rate) is the WWII centricity of it. History is more than just a 6 year war. I would like to see children up til the age of 16 (year 11, last year of comprehensive) learn about something from classical history (Rome and Greece but also maybe a bit of Celtic), Dark Ages (Saxons, Vikings) medieval (Hastings, Plague, Peasants Revolt and Hundred Years War), Renaissance (Reformation, English Civil War particularly), and the colonial days alongside WWI and WWII for that will allow the state to distribute self-recognition rather than any right wing extremists.

But as for the holocaust, of course it should be taught, and I am more concerned as to how could you be offended by it being taught?

No one thinks that the Holocaust shouldn't be taught but a lot of people here think that people put to much time on it. The education department should spread their teachings. People should learn about what Japan did and other countries. Thats really what everyone is saying

Samurais were made away with roughly at the time Bismarck founded the German Empire.

Yup guns made Samurais useless. On the otherhand they weren't able to stop the Japanese from becoming pychos.

However I have great respect for the few Japanese who protested it

Of course I'm just commenting on the stupidity of that code. It not only inspired them to commit horrible acts against innocent people (because they didn't fight) but it also was hurtful to the country since they would rather just kill themselves then regroup

Regroup they did do. Though capture was dishonor. Only when they would not win at all and would be captured/tortured would they kill themselves.

The Japanese we fought in WWII were like this. Surprising what the effects would have been if we invaded. Can you imagine 3 MILLION civilians attacking and 700,000+ Japanese military forces fighting to the death on the opening of the invasion.

(They were going to launch 300 kamikaze planes every hour for ten days to drive off the invasion force. They had over ELEVEN THOUSAND planes and took ships off the guns to fight on thr ground.)

The samurai way would have been our downfall if we invaded or tried to stop them. America would have committed genocide basically.

Yup guns made Samurais useless. On the otherhand they weren't able to stop the Japanese from becoming pychos.

However I have great respect for the few Japanese who protested it

The last samurais did use guns. I don't think the Japanese are psycho. I'd say you are either an unpatriotic dirt bag or just a liberal without a cause.

Yup guns made Samurais useless. On the otherhand they weren't able to stop the Japanese from becoming pychos.I was thinking more of the feudal culture being abolished.
On a side note, this is from WWI, just 30-something years before the Rape of Nanking:
http://www.rainfall.com/posters/images/WWI/3g07489u.jpg

Make what you want of it ;)

Regroup they did do. Though capture was dishonor. Only when they would not win at all and would be captured/tortured would they kill themselves.

The Japanese we fought in WWII were like this. Surprising what the effects would have been if we invaded. Can you imagine 3 MILLION civilians attacking and 700,000+ Japanese military forces fighting to the death on the opening of the invasion.

(They were going to launch 300 kamikaze planes every hour for ten days to drive off the invasion force. They had over ELEVEN THOUSAND planes and took ships off the guns to fight on thr ground.)

The samurai way would have been our downfall if we invaded or tried to stop them. America would have committed genocide basically.

Pychos.... one of the reason I support atom bomb

I really wish Japan had more citizens willing to protest it however the few citizens who did do that were killed for being "Unloyal"

Pychos.... one of the reason I support atom bomb

I really wish Japan had more citizens willing to protest it however the few citizens who did do that were killed for being "Unloyal"The Germans that protested were the first ones to wind up in concentration camps (even before the Jews).

No one thinks that the Holocaust shouldn't be taught but a lot of people here think that people put to much time on it. The education department should spread their teachings. People should learn about what Japan did and other countries. Thats really what everyone is saying

I can agree with that. Hence why I do history at university, but am avoiding the modern era (hurrah for the 17th Century!).

Sean

The Germans that protested were the first ones to wind up in concentration camps (even before the Jews).

Very true indeed. Hitler showed these people as traitors to the Fuhrer and the Fatherland.

I can agree with that. Hence why I do you history at university, but am avoiding the modern era (hurrah for the 17th Century!).

Sean

Wow your old ;) the reason is because I'm not even near going to college hehe

Pychos.... one of the reason I support atom bomb

I really wish Japan had more citizens willing to protest it however the few citizens who did do that were killed for being "Unloyal"

Not psychos. Smart people. We needed the bomb to keep losses low and end it fast. Otherwise we'd be bye-bye.

Not psychos. Smart people. We needed the bomb to keep losses low and end it fast. Otherwise we'd be bye-bye.

Uh dude I support the bomb. I called the Japanese who executed their citizens for protesting the war pychos...

(...)
Yeah, after the Germans killed and raped Soviet civilians when they launched Operation Barbarossa. I'm not saying Stalin was right, but the Germans weren't either. ;)
Incorrect.
The Germany ARMY killed Soviet Civilians. There is a difference between that. Armies massacre people (usually under the order of a madman). Not Nationalaties or Ethnicities.
And you're both not entirely correct: While I definitely won't rule out that the Wehrmacht (=German Army) commited atrocities (which was shown by a very interesting touring exhibition about the crimes of the Wehrmacht), the major burden definitely falls upon the SD (Sicherheitsdienst = "security service"), the SS (Schutz Staffel = "safety group"), and parts of the Polizei (=police) who were ordered behind the front lines. The front moved eastwards and those special forces took over and did what they did. The war in the East has been fought as a war of extermination right from the start. Very different from the Western or Southern theaters of war.

Now, when it comes to the holocaust, much has been said and stated already which is true and as terrible and condemnable as the whole matter was and is - the holocaust is something that has to be remembered and examined to the maximum detail. (Astonishing and perverse as it may sound - I'm glad that the Germans are such a bureaucratic people, otherwise much would not have been known for the Nazis wrote almost everything down and much of it survived the end of the 3rd Reich - hence the historically proven or approximative numbers of victims).
I would like to add another dimension to it that - so far - has not been stated. Money.
The Nazis made an industry out of killing people. That has never been done before. That is so immensely insane that I'm lacking words for it in English - same in German. Every person that was killed actually was worth their working force, their belongings, their golden teeth,... They made money by killing, by trying to exterminate completely... - incomprehensible.

Now, during my years in German highschool I did not have the education some on this thread are complaining about. Most of my knowledge stems from personal research initiated by what I have learned there - but we never entirely covered everything (or I'd still be in highschool...).
We started off in the stone age, ancient times, Rome, pre-Middle Ages, Middle Ages, enlightenment & renaissance, German History (too little for my taste), Napoleon, German Empire, WWI, Hitler's takeover, end of primary & middle school. Actually, we did cover a lot in 5th and 6th grade but not to the extend that goes beyond what a 12 or 13-year-old can understand without freaking out.
Then, back to Rome, renaissance, WWI, Hitler's takeover, end of highschool.

But (!) our German television channels and media keep us very informed about what exactly happened and I've done a lot of research on my country's past, that's for sure! It'd be interesting to see a comparison between different countries and their coverage on WWII.

As for Japan, I would like to add another variable into the equasion: The Japanese fought for a God on Earth, their Emperor. Talk about a leadercult taken to the extreme! Pretty much like the Germans considered themselves a superior Aryan race, the Japanese thought they were flawless and right in their doing. Now, that doesn't excuse anything but it might help explain.

There are many movies which were made about WWII, few good ones made about the holocaust (Pianist & Conspiracy already mentioned; Schindler's List another one) - but they can only partially portray how a nation of thinkers, musicians, scientists could turn on their fellow citizens and try to exterminate them. The Great Dictator also comes to mind when talking about Nazi Germany.

The topic simply is too grand to be fully debated in a thread, in a day, ever. (But that doesn't mean we shouldn't try!)
Anyway, I'm tired and will return tomorrow to see what's come out of this thread. Hope this post isn't too long for anyone to read completely?

It wasn't too long, but it was correct.

The german people HATE that history. Years of wonderful growth with that horrible hole in it.

Japan was like that (as you put I mean), but it was also alot of honor issues as to why they wouldn't surrender.

Killing war protesters in Japan was perfect sense, you were against the government, against the Emperor and against your home and family. Though it wasn't really a problem as people enlisted in the millions up millions for a CHANCE to fight and die for the country and emperor.

Same was with the Germans at the end. To die with honor and fighting, but they wised up and surrendered fast. A bunch of 'psychos' in Japan would be shocked if that happened. Less then 1% of Japanese troops were ever captured in battles. Most of those were already hurt pretty damn badly to, and stuff like unconsicous and bleeding to death.

What America fought againt the WHOLE war was a bunch of 'pussies' if you want to call them that till the last battles when previous veterans were left. This doesn't count the ELITES in China returning to fight for America. When one man takes out THREE tanks alone with a crappy anti-tank weapon and he teaches others to pop the tanks it lowered the kill ratio to nearly 1:1. The Japanese forces weren't stupid or psychotic. Theirs a difference between genius and madness.

And there are some people on this board who think only the government should have guns.

I always make a point to study the holocaust. Part of my history. Grand dad (when he died) still had the nazi prison tattoos on him.

It wasn't too long, but it was correct.

The german people HATE that history. Years of wonderful growth with that horrible hole in it.

I'll have you know, that's not entirely true. I've got a few friends who've been to Germany, and who have German friends who'll say otherwise.

I mean, it wouldn't be uncommon for the younger Germans to yell "Die Nazis!!!" while playing BF:1942 or some such WWII game.

The ones [Germans] that I've seen feel that it would be better to learn as much as possible about that part of history so as not to repeat it, or let it be forgotten...

Hell, you know this already, I assume.

To be quite honest, my Grandfather was alive to watch your "Elites" make their way back to defend the homeland. By that time, he watched as neighbors struggled to keep mere dog from tearing them to pieces. (Because if they let the dog do it's work, the Japanese still had a few guns, so, yeah, you get the picture.)

It wasn't too long, but it was correct.

The german people HATE that history. Years of wonderful growth with that horrible hole in it.

Japan was like that (as you put I mean), but it was also alot of honor issues as to why they wouldn't surrender.

Killing war protesters in Japan was perfect sense, you were against the government, against the Emperor and against your home and family. Though it wasn't really a problem as people enlisted in the millions up millions for a CHANCE to fight and die for the country and emperor.

Same was with the Germans at the end. To die with honor and fighting, but they wised up and surrendered fast. A bunch of 'psychos' in Japan would be shocked if that happened. Less then 1% of Japanese troops were ever captured in battles. Most of those were already hurt pretty damn badly to, and stuff like unconsicous and bleeding to death.

What America fought againt the WHOLE war was a bunch of 'pussies' if you want to call them that till the last battles when previous veterans were left. This doesn't count the ELITES in China returning to fight for America. When one man takes out THREE tanks alone with a crappy anti-tank weapon and he teaches others to pop the tanks it lowered the kill ratio to nearly 1:1. The Japanese forces weren't stupid or psychotic. Theirs a difference between genius and madness.

Sooo basically they were brainwashed? Look I really don't care about Japanese honor, they did something horrible and thats all there really is to it. I really would love to see you explain rape camps in Japan.

And there are some people on this board who think only the government should have guns.

I always make a point to study the holocaust. Part of my history. Grand dad (when he died) still had the nazi prison tattoos on him.
And I still believe that apart from the police, only the military should have guns.

Guns would not have made a difference in Nazi Germany - they would only have served as an excuse for even more violence and bloodshed than what already happened.

It wasn't too long, but it was correct.

The german people HATE that history. Years of wonderful growth with that horrible hole in it.

Japan was like that (as you put I mean), but it was also alot of honor issues as to why they wouldn't surrender.

Killing war protesters in Japan was perfect sense, you were against the government, against the Emperor and against your home and family. Though it wasn't really a problem as people enlisted in the millions up millions for a CHANCE to fight and die for the country and emperor.

Same was with the Germans at the end. To die with honor and fighting, but they wised up and surrendered fast. A bunch of 'psychos' in Japan would be shocked if that happened. Less then 1% of Japanese troops were ever captured in battles. Most of those were already hurt pretty damn badly to, and stuff like unconsicous and bleeding to death.

What America fought againt the WHOLE war was a bunch of 'pussies' if you want to call them that till the last battles when previous veterans were left. This doesn't count the ELITES in China returning to fight for America. When one man takes out THREE tanks alone with a crappy anti-tank weapon and he teaches others to pop the tanks it lowered the kill ratio to nearly 1:1. The Japanese forces weren't stupid or psychotic. Theirs a difference between genius and madness.
Um...right. You do realize that the pacific island troops were some of the best that the japanese had, and even they couldn't get more of a kill ratio then 1:1. The troops coming home from China were nearly destroyed, and consisted of mostly reserves and irregulars by the end of the war. Not 'elites'.

Um...right. You do realize that the pacific island troops were some of the best that the japanese had, and even they couldn't get more of a kill ratio then 1:1. The troops coming home from China were nearly destroyed, and consisted of mostly reserves and irregulars by the end of the war. Not 'elites'.

Nope they left long before, they returned for Ketsu-Go. They were on Kyushu. The left over ones were weakened and returning home. Your information comes from an american source during war and after war, but not Japanese/American papers proving they returned secretly.

I posted this up on the lst page, but, I think that it should be known:

To be quite honest, my Grandfather was alive to watch your "Elites" make their way back to defend the homeland. By that time, he watched as neighbors struggled to keep mere dog from tearing them to pieces. (Because if they let the dog do it's work, the fleeing Japanese still had a few guns, so, yeah, you get the picture.)

It's sorta in response to Kjata's post, but my other motive is simply personal preference.

So here's a first hand account of the Japanese. None of your arguments about sources can really go against that. Unless, you use first hand accounts from your own family as well.

I'll have you know, that's not entirely true. I've got a few friends who've been to Germany, and who have German friends who'll say otherwise.

I mean, it wouldn't be uncommon for the younger Germans to yell "Die Nazis!!!" while playing BF:1942 or some such WWII game.

The ones [Germans] that I've seen feel that it would be better to learn as much as possible about that part of history so as not to repeat it, or let it be forgotten...

Hell, you know this already, I assume.

To be quite honest, my Grandfather was alive to watch your "Elites" make their way back to defend the homeland. By that time, he watched as neighbors struggled to keep mere dog from tearing them to pieces. (Because if they let the dog do it's work, the Japanese still had a few guns, so, yeah, you get the picture.)
Or Panzer General :D

EXACTLY!

Hey, my Grandfather fought in WWII, and I just find it sickening how no one even knows about even the theater he fought in. He's still alive, (He's in great condition really.) And all theaters in WWII deserve to be honored.

All Massacres needed to be mourned.

There quite literally, is not a single book, movie, or WWII game, about that theater. You'd think I'd be offended, and I am.

Man, I should make a game where it includes every aspect of WWII.

It would probably be 10 gb...but that makes it even more awesome. :D

Very true indeed. Hitler showed these people as traitors to the Fuhrer and the Fatherland.Actually, the term used was "protective custody".

Uh dude I support the bomb. I called the Japanese who executed their citizens for protesting the war pychos...It didn't take a bomb to knock out the Germans. There were plenty of cases of children being executed for protesting the war. There were people hung for waving white flags when the Allies came on the occasion that the Germans took back the city (cities that didn't wave white flags were subjected to artillery fire by the allies).

And there are some people on this board who think only the government should have guns.

I always make a point to study the holocaust. Part of my history. Grand dad (when he died) still had the nazi prison tattoos on him.I don't recall the Reichswehr stopping Hitler for a lack of guns as was planned.

Sorry if this has been said before...I don't feel like reading 14 pages...so I'm replying to some of the original poster's first few arguements.

I agree...History classes, at least in the United States, tend to avoid Asian History. Every history class in my school is either American or European History (excluding one Modern World History class).

Even the Modern World History Class only focuses on European colonialism, European wars, and American Wars. Even my 1248-page, World History, college level textbook for my AP (Advanced Placement) class, spends chapters and chapters on European colonialism, European wars, and American wars...

WWII (Mostly European and American [Pacific] fronts) takes up like two chapters of the book, while the Sino-Japanese War was only covered in a paragraph...and it was much much longer and much more destructive (in terms of individuals, military and civilian; killed) than the European and American-Japanese WWII fronts. The Japanese were much more brutal to the Chinese in comparison to the Nazis and the Holocaust. Yet I sit there and listen to my teacher preach about how the Nazi-lead holocaust was the most destructive genocide in the 20th century. Yet clearly Japan was worse...and so was Russia.

Let me also note that my school does not offer any kind of Asian History-based coarses...nor did any of the other schools I've attended.

It's a shame that those types of things must rely on student's willingness to rent out or buy a history book of their own on the topic to actually be informed about more than 90% of Asian History. And that's bad because you really can't rely on teenagers' competence anymore...nor their willingness to learn history....or read at that.

Yet I sit there and listen to my teacher preach about how the Nazi-lead holocaust was the most destructive genocide in the 20th century. Yet clearly Japan was worse...and so was Russia.Back that claim up please. I honestly don't believe it.

Back that claim up please. I honestly don't believe it.

I don't know exact figures, so I can't put up any sort of reasonable argument. However, in my currently somewhat uninformed opinion, I hold the three at about the same level. I just don't like how any one is put forward as the worst.

It doesn't take a thousand lives, or a million. It only takes one to make it wrong.

I don't know exact figures, so I can't put up any sort of reasonable argument. However, in my currently somewhat uninformed opinion, I hold the three at about the same level. I just don't like how any one is put forward as the worst.

It doesn't take a thousand lives, or a million. It only takes one to make it wrong.I consider the industrial nature of the holocaust and the whole philosophy behind it worse than the Rape of Nanking and Stalin's purges. There's a genuine contempt for human life that provides a foundation of the Nazi crimes that I haven't seen in either the crimes of the Japanese or the Russians.
That, in my eyes is what makes the holocaust worse. There was an actual conference on how to best exterminate the Jews...

I'm more pragmatic then most, but I'm going to say, that I honestly don't care about the intent.

If someone kills you, do you really care at that point WHY they killed you?

Destructive=Collotoral Damage

Collorotal Damage=People killed.

85-90 million dead far outstrips 11 million, end of story.

I think the big thing about the holocaust is that it was really the first government sponsored attempt at "Total" eradication of a group. Sure the Americans killed the indians but they also didn't just kill them they relocated them to plots of lands. The germans uprooted an entire group of people and put them in camps where they either were worked to death or killed outright. We use it as a case study in a sense.

Now, there was buried in the posters ignorance a grain of a reasonable point. However it was like a delicious peice of chocolate, wrapped in a thick layer of coconut stupidity.
Now to better defend this point in a more reasonable and tasteful manner.
If I were a Cambodian, I would probably be offended at my textbook, because though it mentions Pot Pol, it only mentions him in refference to Vietnam, not the Killing Fields.
If I were a Chinese Refugee, I'd be offended that my textbook ommits the Cultural Revolution.
If I were a Serb, I would be offended that Ustashe killings are not mentioned, even as a part of the Holocaust.
If I Were an Armenian, I would be offended that the Young Turks movement are not mentioned even though Hitler famously uttered the words "Who, afterall, remembers the Armenians?" to defend his mad scheme.
Sadly, the Holocaust was not the first attempt to whipe out a people entirely, Turkey tried whiping out the Armenians, the USSR tried to whipe out the Don Cossacks, nor was he the last to try and do this.
Now, this isn't to say that the holocaust wasn't important, but many Textbooks seem to make it out as the only horror on even remotely that scale. Yes the holocaust was terrible, but to make it the only such act in the history books is to do the same as ommiting it: Allowing it to happen again. Because if one believes the Holocaust was an entirely isolated event, how can you see the next one coming?

What is striking about the Holocaust is the determination and effort by the Nazi's to wipe out the Jews. True, as Serapindal said, no life is worth more than another, but to go to such great lengths to wipe out the Jews, to be so calculated and merciless, thats a real horror. The Nazi's passed the Jews through the Concentration Camps like Cattle through the Slaughterhouse. It is a real eye opener in relation to man's darker side; man's inhumanity to man.

i have to agree

Unit 731 in Japan was far worse

im not saying the holocaust wasnt bad...IT was TERRIBLE too

but

Unit 731 i think was even worse

*WARNING* -- this contains nasty stuff and images

http://www.aiipowmia.com/731/731caveat.html

the only reason I'm angry about having to read ssoooo much about the holocaust is that other worse instances of genocide are skipped over and acts of genocide that are occuring RIGHT NOW are made out to be insignificant - http://www.thehugkid.com/index.php?document=nazification.html

It is a real eye opener in relation to man's darker side; man's inhumanity to man.

Your ability to be original is breathtaking...

To the issue at hand, the manipulation of history is one of the causes of genocide. Have a little think about that people...

Okay.....

How about this:

1. Yes, the dresden massacre was horrible, but how about the bombing of London? Many people died in what looked like a neverending assault against a defensless city. Yes, defensless, since the Royal Air Force was decimated. Or how about Lidice and Ležáky? Villages razed from the ground as punishment for Reinhard Heydrich's death? 1 person dies and 1300 pay?!
2.Fine. This one is true. Only people that search can know about the true massacres of Stalin and the Japanese Empire. In this point, i concede.
3.Riiight. Go look at hitler's speeches. He practically said so to the people. Don't believe me? Fine. Go look at http://www.holocaust-history.org/himmler-poznan/ausrotten.shtml
4.Bullshit. On the Holocaust 11 million died. 5.1 to 6.0 were jews. 3.0 to 3.5 were POLISH. Of those left, only 100.000 were of german origin.
5.Who doesn't know that?? Only a moron that knows nothing of the holocaust?
6.Wrong again. Yes, there was antisemitism on those countries, but until, and only until france and parts of russia were conquered, were jews of that place condemned to death. Until then, they were left alone. And it was the british that initially gave Palestine to the jews to make the State of Israel.

The RAF decimated? I've always read/seen it as the RAF outgunned and outnumbered - but not decimated. With the invention/installation of early warning radar and the Spitfire, they were able to turn back or destroy a lot of German and bombers, but still a lot got through too. Not once have I read of the RAF being "decimated". I've read a few RAF books, and some Luftwaffe books as well (from WWII RAF and Luftwaffe pilots). I do not recall the names of these books though.

Being forced to read tons of books about the Holocaust today, is VERY offensive to me. I mean, is anyone else offended about having to read SOO much about the Holocaust?

Suck it up, it's history. Not only are you being ignorant about this, your being a little whining bitch about it.

My advice, study and learn it, if you don't like, suck it up. This was a big part of World War II.

i have to agree

Unit 731 in Japan was far worse

im not saying the holocaust wasnt bad...IT was TERRIBLE too

but

Unit 731 i think was even worse

*WARNING* -- this contains nasty stuff and images

http://www.aiipowmia.com/731/731caveat.html

Funny how I mentioned Unit 731 about a dozen times in the thread, saying the same thing you're saying. I guess we're in agreement. :D

Suck it up, it's history. Not only are you being ignorant about this, your being a little whining bitch about it.

My advice, study and learn it, if you don't like, suck it up. This was a big part of World War II.

Which doesn't justify at all NOT teaching anything about WWII.

Lets look at this.

You teach the kid the holocaust.

You don't teach the kid anything about WWII.

See anything wrong with that picture?

Ah...my biggest thread I ever made..LIIIIIVE.

Well, one thing that offends me is that we spent weeks and weeks talking about the holocaust, reading books on it and watching endless movies and yet 9/10 people my age can't tell me what it was. Maybe we're going about Holocaust education wrong?

Ah...my biggest thread I ever made..LIIIIIVE.


... and bringing this thread back a month after it died is called gravedigging. Don't do it again.