NationStates Jolt Archive

On this one choice Poll vote on who do you really blame for the New Orleans Hurricane Mess problems.

If you dont blame anyone please vote on my,
I dont Blame anyone for the New Orleans Hurricane Mess, Poll, thank you.

Here's a crazy idea. Let's blame the bad weather :eek:

No, the hurricane is innocent. It's our fault for building a city in it's way. :rolleyes:

For the mess after the storm, I blame FEMA and Bush for dragging their butts.

Isn't this a rather childish approach to such a major disaster? Many of you seem to be more interested in placing blame than in helping the people displaced by Katrina. As with most things in a society this massive, there's more than enough "blame" to go around.

Some of you hate President Bush so much that you'll blame him for virtually anything. I'm actually suprised that no one has yet blamed him for plate tectonics. It makes me wonder what your fathers did to you when you were little to make you hate authority figures so much. Yes, authority should always be questioned. Yes, authority can be and is wrong from time to time. But to consistently blame everything on the President just because you have authority issues is, IMHO, disengenuous in the extreme.

Isn't this a rather childish approach to such a major disaster? Many of you seem to be more interested in placing blame than in helping the people displaced by Katrina. As with most things in a society this massive, there's more than enough "blame" to go around.

Some of you hate President Bush so much that you'll blame him for virtually anything. I'm actually suprised that no one has yet blamed him for plate tectonics. It makes me wonder what your fathers did to you when you were little to make you hate authority figures so much. Yes, authority should always be questioned. Yes, authority can be and is wrong from time to time. But to consistently blame everything on the President just because you have authority issues is, IMHO, disengenuous in the extreme.

It's not the hurricane, its the poor response. He should've taken more initiative, government shouldn't be a blame game, if the lower house wasn't getting their shit in order Bush admin should've stepped forward and told them to A) let the people out of NO, and reacted faster. Sure local government wasn't doin the right thing, but when your kids are running with scissors you don't wait until they trip to teach a lesson.

Water lapped against the roofs of houses in New Orleans. People were still trapped in their attics and sought rescue while thousands of others were enduring hellish circumstances in the Superdome. Scores of displaced people lacked life essentials. Fatalities continued to pile up.

Yet many leftists weren’t rallying to aide the victims. They were more concerned with scoring political points by blaming President Bush for the demise of the Gulf South, in particular New Orleans.

Many are faulting the White House and Congress for not adequately funding the levees, essentially blaming them for the levee breach and ensuing flood. But, even if Congress and the president provided every requested dollar for the levee system, the levees would only be able to handle a Category 3 storm. Plans to upgrade the levees to withstand a surge from a Category 4 or 5 storm would have taken decades to implement.

Missing from all the hysterical criticism is a real evaluation of who is truly responsible for this calamity. We live in the era of massive federal government. Yet, this doesn’t change the fact that America was not designed to function through one huge central government. Our federalist system gives states and municipal governments the responsibility to protect and care for their citizenry.

Two days before Hurricane Katrina made landfall near New Orleans, President Bush took the extraordinary step of declaring the state of Louisiana a major disaster area before the disaster was a reality. Through this declaration, medical supplies, food, water and National Guard units were sent to be on call just a short distance from New Orleans.

While FEMA’s bureaucracy hasn’t shown itself to be a model relief organization during the days following the hurricane, the root of the problem is actually at the state and local level. Two things led to the crisis in New Orleans — the failure to completely evacuate the city and the rampant lawlessness in the days following.

Upon the urging of President Bush, New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin and Gov. Blanco finally ordered a mandatory evacuation, but by many estimates the evacuation order came a day late. If New Orleans would have been completely evacuated, the rescue efforts would not have been necessary. The Superdome and Morial Conference Center would not have become hell on earth.

Granted, you could never get everyone out of the city. The people who could have, but didn’t evacuate are the only ones ultimately responsible for their fates. But for the 100,000 plus citizens of New Orleans who didn’t have the means, the city and the state bear the brunt of the responsibility. The leaders knew of the impending peril and there was a plan in place which could have saved many lives. But Nagin and Blanco failed to act on it.

The City of New Orleans Comprehensive Emergency Management Plan states: “The City of New Orleans will utilize all available resources to quickly and safely evacuate threatened areas,” and “Transportation will be provided to those persons requiring public transportation from the area.” Furthermore, the Louisiana Emergency Operations Plan provides that, “School and municipal buses, government-owned vehicles and vehicles provided by volunteer agencies may be used to provide transportation for individuals who lack transportation and require assistance in evacuating.”

Public buses were used, but only to take people to the Superdome, not to safety. The city's 2,000 school buses were never used and remained parked during the evacuation. They are no longer usable as they sit in four feet of water.

Back in July, the Times-Picayune reported that the city, state and federal emergency officials were preparing to notify New Orleans residents that: “In the event of a major hurricane, you're on your own.” I suppose Nagin and Blanco can always say that they delivered on that promise.

Lawlessness tortured those inside the “shelters of last resort” and hampered rescue efforts on the outside. The city was ill-prepared to uphold the rule of law in any disaster. Under normal circumstances, New Orleans only had 3.14 officers per 1,000 residents — less than half the rate in Washington, D.C., according to the AP.

Almost acting as an apologist for the looters, once the looting began, Nagin instructed the force to overlook the looting and concentrate solely on rescuing when they weren’t too busy looting themselves. Blanco’s inaction contributed to the growing chaos. According to Colonel David Hunt, a Fox News military analyst, Blanco had 6,000 Louisiana National Guard and 1,000 state police at her disposal, but Blanco didn’t send them in. Nor did she call her fellow governors to mobilize Guard units from other states.

Evidently, the anger is rubbing off on some Louisiana area politicians.

Last seen comforting the weeping governor at a live press conference, Senator Mary Landrieu told a national audience that she’d punch the President if he leveled any more criticism towards the state and local government.

Maintaining order in New Orleans was well out of President Bush’s responsibility and power. Federal law prohibits the President from sending the National Guard until the Governor gives the order. Unless the Governor hands over control, the Commanding General of the National Guard reports to the governor of the respective state not the President.

Bush asked Blanco on Friday to give him control of local law enforcement and the Louisiana National Guard. Blanco refused to cede control.

The results of the federal government’s efforts speak for themselves.

Since the federal government sent in the Coast Guard, they have saved more than 32,291 lives.

Many things did go wrong in the aftermath of Katrina, but the primary responsibility doesn’t rest with the federal government. The state and the local governments must be held accountable for their actions and stop blaming their favorite scapegoat, the federal government.

Any commissions investigating the tragedy must begin with the actions of Louisiana officials.

Isn't it blindingly obvious by now? if Bush hadn't gone to war, there'd be enough US soldiers back at home, where they're supposed to be, and the problem would've been sorted out in a day, instead of... well... it's still going on now, isn't it?

Late last year, when hurrican Ivan hit 3rd world country Cuba, the Cubans evacuated 17% of its entire population, or 1.5 MILLION people out of its path to safety in under 15 days. Even Fidel Castro was out there packing sand bags!!!

But 1st world country America has about a month to prepare to be hit... what does it do? It tells its citizens to find their own way out of the area, knowing full well many of them couldn't... and then the US couldn't even protect the people seeking shelter in the Super Dome!! What does Bush do? He pays a visit DAYS later, kissing babies as he goes... shit he didn't even carry any food supplies in his helicopter!

As Venezuelan president Hugo Chavez said, shortly after pledging medical aid and few million barrels of oil to help with disaster relief, "what sort of man tries to take over the world but can't even look after his own people?"

SHAME BUSH! SHAME!

Thank you for voting and participating, hopefully this will be the last one.

I voted in the I dont Blame Anyone Poll.

What the Heck, I might as well take credit for the Blame Polls, I really was the first one to come out with them, and in fact most of them are mine, so why the heck not take credit for them.

Thank you again for voting and participating.

Any commissions investigating the tragedy must begin with the actions of Louisiana officials.
I just five minutes ago saw on the TV where the Gov. of Louisiana has once again overruled the Mayor of NO, saying "there is no mandatory evacuation" of the city. The news also reported that bacterial levels in homes were more than 10% above normal, and that at least 5 people were proven to have died from bacterial infections.

It's not Bush who is in denial, it's the Governor of Louisiana.

I sent in my donation, and I can and should send another donation.

I suppose there are many ways of donating now, like when you buy a certain product a certain amount goes to help the victims of this massive Hurricane.

Here's a crazy idea. Let's blame the bad weather :eek:
shesh. What a childish idea. The weather... now really! Do think before you speak. :p

...of course, without the hurricane none of this would have happened, but the same goes v.v. I think part of the question also takes into consideration that many hurricanes have touched the city before without ever creating such a mess.

I blame it all on the stupidity of mankind. :(

Late last year, when hurrican Ivan hit 3rd world country Cuba, the Cubans evacuated 17% of its entire population, or 1.5 MILLION people out of its path to safety in under 15 days. Even Fidel Castro was out there packing sand bags!!! !
I'm told that in a dictatorship, it's easier to order people around than it is in a democracy. And if President Bush had helped pack sandbags, the press and democrats would have crucified him for manipulating the "photo ops."

Get real.

No, the hurricane is innocent. It's our fault for building a city in it's way. :rolleyes:

For the mess after the storm, I blame FEMA and Bush for dragging their butts.

I agree with that, but it's also Bush's fault for appointing, as its head, a guy who's only qualification for the job was being an incompotent commisioner of judges and stewarts for the Arabian Horse Society. Bush did a lot to shrink FEMA as part of his tax cuts and funding his wars on Iraq, Afghanistan, and common sense.

O yeah... let's all live in America and die because oir government doesn't care about us yeaaaaaaah

Sorry, I'd prefer to live in a country where the government actually cares enough about me to give me free healthcare, free education, freedom of speech and a direct say in the running of my own life. Fuck America, man.

Water lapped against the roofs of houses in New Orleans. People were still trapped in their attics and sought rescue while thousands of others were enduring hellish circumstances in the Superdome. Scores of displaced people lacked life essentials. Fatalities continued to pile up.

Yet many leftists weren’t rallying to aide the victims. They were more concerned with scoring political points by blaming President Bush for the demise of the Gulf South, in particular New Orleans.

Many are faulting the White House and Congress for not adequately funding the levees, essentially blaming them for the levee breach and ensuing flood. But, even if Congress and the president provided every requested dollar for the levee system, the levees would only be able to handle a Category 3 storm. Plans to upgrade the levees to withstand a surge from a Category 4 or 5 storm would have taken decades to implement.

Missing from all the hysterical criticism is a real evaluation of who is truly responsible for this calamity. We live in the era of massive federal government. Yet, this doesn’t change the fact that America was not designed to function through one huge central government. Our federalist system gives states and municipal governments the responsibility to protect and care for their citizenry.

Two days before Hurricane Katrina made landfall near New Orleans, President Bush took the extraordinary step of declaring the state of Louisiana a major disaster area before the disaster was a reality. Through this declaration, medical supplies, food, water and National Guard units were sent to be on call just a short distance from New Orleans.

While FEMA’s bureaucracy hasn’t shown itself to be a model relief organization during the days following the hurricane, the root of the problem is actually at the state and local level. Two things led to the crisis in New Orleans — the failure to completely evacuate the city and the rampant lawlessness in the days following.

Upon the urging of President Bush, New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin and Gov. Blanco finally ordered a mandatory evacuation, but by many estimates the evacuation order came a day late. If New Orleans would have been completely evacuated, the rescue efforts would not have been necessary. The Superdome and Morial Conference Center would not have become hell on earth.

Granted, you could never get everyone out of the city. The people who could have, but didn’t evacuate are the only ones ultimately responsible for their fates. But for the 100,000 plus citizens of New Orleans who didn’t have the means, the city and the state bear the brunt of the responsibility. The leaders knew of the impending peril and there was a plan in place which could have saved many lives. But Nagin and Blanco failed to act on it.

The City of New Orleans Comprehensive Emergency Management Plan states: “The City of New Orleans will utilize all available resources to quickly and safely evacuate threatened areas,” and “Transportation will be provided to those persons requiring public transportation from the area.” Furthermore, the Louisiana Emergency Operations Plan provides that, “School and municipal buses, government-owned vehicles and vehicles provided by volunteer agencies may be used to provide transportation for individuals who lack transportation and require assistance in evacuating.”

Public buses were used, but only to take people to the Superdome, not to safety. The city's 2,000 school buses were never used and remained parked during the evacuation. They are no longer usable as they sit in four feet of water.

Back in July, the Times-Picayune reported that the city, state and federal emergency officials were preparing to notify New Orleans residents that: “In the event of a major hurricane, you're on your own.” I suppose Nagin and Blanco can always say that they delivered on that promise.

Lawlessness tortured those inside the “shelters of last resort” and hampered rescue efforts on the outside. The city was ill-prepared to uphold the rule of law in any disaster. Under normal circumstances, New Orleans only had 3.14 officers per 1,000 residents — less than half the rate in Washington, D.C., according to the AP.

Almost acting as an apologist for the looters, once the looting began, Nagin instructed the force to overlook the looting and concentrate solely on rescuing when they weren’t too busy looting themselves. Blanco’s inaction contributed to the growing chaos. According to Colonel David Hunt, a Fox News military analyst, Blanco had 6,000 Louisiana National Guard and 1,000 state police at her disposal, but Blanco didn’t send them in. Nor did she call her fellow governors to mobilize Guard units from other states.

Evidently, the anger is rubbing off on some Louisiana area politicians.

Last seen comforting the weeping governor at a live press conference, Senator Mary Landrieu told a national audience that she’d punch the President if he leveled any more criticism towards the state and local government.

Maintaining order in New Orleans was well out of President Bush’s responsibility and power. Federal law prohibits the President from sending the National Guard until the Governor gives the order. Unless the Governor hands over control, the Commanding General of the National Guard reports to the governor of the respective state not the President.

Bush asked Blanco on Friday to give him control of local law enforcement and the Louisiana National Guard. Blanco refused to cede control.

The results of the federal government’s efforts speak for themselves.

Since the federal government sent in the Coast Guard, they have saved more than 32,291 lives.

Many things did go wrong in the aftermath of Katrina, but the primary responsibility doesn’t rest with the federal government. The state and the local governments must be held accountable for their actions and stop blaming their favorite scapegoat, the federal government.

Any commissions investigating the tragedy must begin with the actions of Louisiana officials.

you seem to be scolding folks for blaming Bush and the Federal gov't instead of rallying to provide aid... but then spend the rest of your diatribe blaming the local and state gov't. I don't know... but I'm bettin that the governor of LA and the Mayor of NO are both democrats.

I'm told that in a dictatorship, it's easier to order people around than it is in a democracy. And if President Bush had helped pack sandbags, the press and democrats would have crucified him for manipulating the "photo ops."

Get real.

No one is saying that he should have packed sandbags, but he shouldn't have cut the funding of those whose job it was to do so. This "it wouldn't have helped against the hurricane anyway" argument is a load of shit. He waited almost a fucking week before doing anything. I suppose if he had properly funded and staffed FEMA he'd have been crucified for being a tax and spend liberal and being disloyal to those who helped get him into office?

Oh, Wait, I thought the appeal of Bush was that he had enough of a moral spine to make unpopular choices that were the right ones? I guess the appeal of Bush is that his supporters are evil functional retards who will re-arrange reality within their own minds to argue that what he did was right no matter how much suffering, death, and loss it causes.

Also, he was given dictatorial powers in Louisiana when the Governor asked him to declare martial law. And he still got nothing done. So much for it being easier if it was a dictatorship and he was the dictator.

Global warming.

a couple of degrees rise in water temperatures has worsened the hurricane season. Naturally, the only leader in a position who could have done something about global warming instead denies it even exists.

I blame BUsh.

im not an american
so i have no idea what FEMA is
so what is it???

Global warming.

a couple of degrees rise in water temperatures has worsened the hurricane season. Naturally, the only leader in a position who could have done something about global warming instead denies it even exists.

I blame BUsh.
Of course you do, little one. [ pats you on the head ] There, there.

im not an american
so i have no idea what FEMA is
so what is it???
Federal Emergency Management Administration. It's been a subject of controversy for years and years.

No one is saying that he should have packed sandbags, but he shouldn't have cut the funding of those whose job it was to do so. This "it wouldn't have helped against the hurricane anyway" argument is a load of shit. He waited almost a fucking week before doing anything. I suppose if he had properly funded and staffed FEMA he'd have been crucified for being a tax and spend liberal and being disloyal to those who helped get him into office?

Oh, Wait, I thought the appeal of Bush was that he had enough of a moral spine to make unpopular choices that were the right ones? I guess the appeal of Bush is that his supporters are evil functional retards who will re-arrange reality within their own minds to argue that what he did was right no matter how much suffering, death, and loss it causes.

Also, he was given dictatorial powers in Louisiana when the Governor asked him to declare martial law. And he still got nothing done. So much for it being easier if it was a dictatorship and he was the dictator.
One of two things is true here:

1. You have serious problems discerning fantasy from reality, or ...

2. You're simply trying to bait me.

Sorry, but no cigar, duuuuude. :D

Global warming.

a couple of degrees rise in water temperatures has worsened the hurricane season. Naturally, the only leader in a position who could have done something about global warming instead denies it even exists.

I blame BUsh.
Hurricane seasons have cycles of intensity, right now is a high point for severe storms, I think it stays that way for quite some time. It isn't global warming.

Although other environmental damage has made New Orleans particularly vulnerable, but that isn't the fault of anyone currently in office anyways, it was started long ago.

All I really know is that what's happening down there is reminscent of how a third world country deals with disasters and I can't believe that it's my neighbour to the south that's having these sorts of problems. It seems that the FEMA people kinda poorly managed things, as they were supposed to be running the show after a state of emergency was declared. The fact that no outside help showed up for three days is astounding, honestly and the conditions these people have had to endure are deplorable.

Federal Emergency Management Administration. It's been a subject of controversy for years and years.
ooh, well i guess it has a part of responsibility of what happened, but i think it was bush not acting...
katrina is not like the tsunami....
the tsunami striked with no warning, so people didnt manage to escape, while katrina, well you saw the storm coming through cuba and the gulf of mexico...
so you had plenty of time to flee the area.... plus there is something i dont understand in the USA....

why do you guys build your cities near volcanos, tornado zones and your favorit... earthquackes like san fransisco....

ooh, well i guess it has a part of responsibility of what happened, but i think it was bush not acting...
katrina is not like the tsunami....
the tsunami striked with no warning, so people didnt manage to escape, while katrina, well you saw the storm coming through cuba and the gulf of mexico...
so you had plenty of time to flee the area.... plus there is something i dont understand in the USA....

why do you guys build your cities near volcanos, tornado zones and your favorit... earthquackes like san fransisco....

We Americans like to live.... Dangerously.

why do you guys build your cities near volcanos, tornado zones and your favorit... earthquackes like san fransisco....
you're kidding, right?
It's not like people watched volcanoes erupt and thought 'wouldn't this be a swell place to live?'...
Simply put they needed water (either the ocean or rivers) close to their homes for various reasons.

I blame Castro. Bastard commie... with his communist weather control device... :mad:

I just five minutes ago saw on the TV where the Gov. of Louisiana has once again overruled the Mayor of NO, saying "there is no mandatory evacuation" of the city. The news also reported that bacterial levels in homes were more than 10% above normal, and that at least 5 people were proven to have died from bacterial infections.

It's not Bush who is in denial, it's the Governor of Louisiana.

I like how there is no blame everyone option since everyone is to blame but at this rate, I'm entitled to blame the Governor MORE than anyone else. Heck, she is preventing the red cross from coming in!

Everything has to go through her and now we are seeing what the price tag is for it.

Come on Governor, let the feds do there jobs and you butt out of it.

you seem to be scolding folks for blaming Bush and the Federal gov't instead of rallying to provide aid... but then spend the rest of your diatribe blaming the local and state gov't. I don't know... but I'm bettin that the governor of LA and the Mayor of NO are both democrats.

They are, however, I have to give some credit to the NO Mayor for telling everyone to get the hell out of the city. He's trying to attone for his mistakes but the Governor is not. She is trying and is succeeding in overriding the Mayor of NO!

She has also prevented food and water from getting to the Superdome and the Convention Center.

She has also prevented the American Red Cross from coming into the area to assist with relief efforts.

im not an american
so i have no idea what FEMA is
so what is it???

Federal
Emergency
Management
Agency

So much for that hot Idea.

Hurricane seasons have cycles of intensity, right now is a high point for severe storms, I think it stays that way for quite some time. It isn't global warming.

You are indeed correct. If the ingredients fall just right, you'll have powerful hurricanes. Especially if there isn't any windsheer to keep the storm in check. You may have high temperature waters but if you have windsheer, no powerful storm will form because it'll get ripped apart.

Although other environmental damage has made New Orleans particularly vulnerable, but that isn't the fault of anyone currently in office anyways, it was started long ago.

Yep. Something that people on here always seem to forget.

All I really know is that what's happening down there is reminscent of how a third world country deals with disasters and I can't believe that it's my neighbour to the south that's having these sorts of problems. It seems that the FEMA people kinda poorly managed things, as they were supposed to be running the show after a state of emergency was declared. The fact that no outside help showed up for three days is astounding, honestly and the conditions these people have had to endure are deplorable.

And here you can actually blame FEMA as well as the those at the State and Local governments who prevented such aide from showing up. Not to mention, the military couldn't do anything till the winds died down and that took 48 hours to do.

I blame Castro. Bastard commie... with his communist weather control device... :mad:


Ha ha I played that game once ha ha ha it was totally gay

(toffy nosed Brit accent: I don't mean that in a homophobic manner, mind you)

From here in Britain the impression we are getting is that the problem was a massive underestimation of the problem from those in charge of FEMA et al. It just seems unbelievable here how long it took for the government to respond to the scale of the problem.

It also seems unbelievable just how quickly things descended into barbarism.

But I can only tell you the opinion we are being given by the media, who are not shy of heaping burning coals on the Bush administration's heads.

On this one choice Poll vote on who do you really blame for the New Orleans Hurricane Mess problems.

.

I blame Mother Nature.

You know who I blame? The entire American government for allowing assholes like that Blanco to be governors. She knew what would happen and she did nothing. Instead of getting these damn people out of New Orleans she leaves them to starve in the Dome without med and food supplies. And all Bush is doing is giving them a pat on the back instead of sending the entire army in there to control the flood and send them all to the nearest state where they'll be safe. If NO is ever going to be rebuilt, I will be damned if that ugly skank get's back in office. You know what I also hate? Heavy christians claiming NO deserved it because of their gay festivals. Damn it man, what has the world come to?

Authority for disasters start with local gov, goes to state, and then goes the feds. The situation was so miss managed by the local and state govs that FEMA didn't know where the hell to start. I guess FEMA never had a plan to deal with incompetance on the bith the state and local side.

One thing that no one has ever explained to me is why the Iowa and South Dakota NG, and I don't know how many other states, where put on alert before the Louisiana NG was.

In the poll I picked FEMA, because it was their responsibility. However it didn't let me pick more than one or I would of also picked Bush for putting such incompetent people in such important positions, such as Mike Brown of FEMA and The Secretary of Homeland Security.

I mean lets get real here, lets look at who's fault this debacle really was. It's written quite clearly into law. If it wasn't the federal governments responsibility then why does the law say it was.

"Section 501. Under Secretary for Emergency Preparedness and Response.

This section specifies primary responsibilities of the Under Secretary for Emergency Preparedness and Response. These include: (1) helping to ensure the preparedness of emergency response providers for terrorist attacks, major disasters, and other emergencies, (2) establishing standards, conducting exercises and training, evaluating performance, and providing funds in relation to the Nuclear Incident Response Team (defined in section 504 of the bill), (3) providing the federal government's response to terrorist attacks and major disasters, (4) aiding the recovery from terrorist attacks and major disasters, (5) working with other federal and non-federal agencies to build a comprehensive national incident management system, (6) consolidating existing federal government emergency response plans into a single, coordinated national response plan, and (7) developing comprehensive programs for developing interoperative communications technology and ensuring that emergency response providers acquire such technology. responsibility of providing the federal government's response to terrorist attacks and major disasters - item (3) above - includes a number of specific functions: (A) coordinating the overall response, (B) directing the Domestic Emergency Support Team, the Strategic National Stockpile, the National Disaster Medical System, and the Nuclear Incident Response Team, (C) overseeing the Metropolitan Medical Response System, and (D) coordinating other federal response resources.

Source (http://www.whitehouse.gov/deptofhomeland/analysis/title5.html)

You know what I also hate? Heavy christians claiming NO deserved it because of their gay festivals. Damn it man, what has the world come to?
You know what's kinda funny though, the area where the gay parade was scheduled to be wasn't flooded and they actually went through with it anyways, in the midst of the hurricane ravaged city.

You know what's kinda funny though, the area where the gay parade was scheduled to be wasn't flooded and they actually went through with it anyways, in the midst of the hurricane ravaged city.


God really does have a great sense of humor.

God really does have a great sense of humor.
Evidently. :D

Evidently. :D


Do you have a link for that parade news item Dakini?

Ever think of blaming the actual hurricane?

Ever think of blaming the actual hurricane?

I believe he is talking about the shoddy response to the hurricane.

Well here we go again.

I think there were numerous failures and widespread ineptitude. I don't understand the need to scapegoat anyone, everyone at every level seems to have fucked up. They should share the blame and cosequences.

Napolean Bonaparte, Thoams Jefferson, and James Monroe...

and lets not forget Jean-Baptiste Le Moyne de Bienville, the city's founder.

Interestingly enough, Cuba offered to send doctors to help.

The US government turned them down, saying we didn't need their help.

But we accepted $25,000 cash from Sri Lanka.

We want your $$$, not your compassion, thank you!

The affected states lost about a day of response time because of the current draw of forces of National Guard units to Iraq.

Troops that normally are in-state to deal with in-state emergencies were not there to respond.

It did not stop response; it just hampered it.

You can't blame FEMA for sending troops to Iraq.

When talking about blame, I think the key question is who was responsible for coordinating the response to Katrina. Normally local authorities respond to disasters, but when the disaster is too great for local authorities to respond effectively with the resources at their disposal, FEMA is supposed to step in and provide the needed resources, both in terms of physical aid, and organizational aid. It seems blatantly clear that the local officials were out of their league and responed incomptently as a result. FEMA's purpose is rather precisely to deal with situations like that.

If FEMA isn't supposed to take responsibility for response to disasters like Katrina I have no idea why it exists. So, I blame FEMA for the poor response in NO.

I blame Bush for the incompetence of FEMA's leadership.

Why wasnt there a Mayor, Govenor, and President option?

All are to blame.

Interestingly enough, Cuba offered to send doctors to help.

The US government turned them down, saying we didn't need their help.

But we accepted $25,000 cash from Sri Lanka.

We want your $$$, not your compassion, thank you!
Heh, no, no, you've got it all wrong!

It's not that we wan't cash - it's that we don't want help from Cuba! We would have turned down cash from Cuba too I bet. We just don't like the Cubans. We like Sri Lanka ok, there isn't a powerful group of Sri Lankans in Miami insisting we have no buisiness with their nation.

The affected states lost about a day of response time because of the current draw of forces of National Guard units to Iraq.

Troops that normally are in-state to deal with in-state emergencies were not there to respond.

It did not stop response; it just hampered it.

You can't blame FEMA for sending troops to Iraq.

This is a totally false statement. When we decided to go into Iraq and Afghanistan, it was decided to leave at least 50% of the Guard AT HOME to deal with disasters.

Only 35% of the LA national Guard was deployed overseas. This leaves 65% AT HOME to deal with disasters.

Why don't people ever get their facts straight.

I wanted to vote for the dumbasses who thought it would be wise to build a city under sea level. But that choice wasn't available.

Here is my blame matrix:

Mayor for not sticking to the evacuation protocol and getting the buses out and for moving people to the Superdome rather than out!

Governor for not asking for help sooner and not sending in the national guard stationed in her state (you know the majority weren't in Iraq, they were at home).

Bush for not acting 24 hours quicker than he did.

Whatever numbskull thought it was more cost effectively to make the levee's strong enough to withstand a Category 3 and only a Category 3.

Whatever numbskull built a city under sea level in hurricane territory.

Too bad there isn't a multi-option thing.

Anyone putting 100% blame on Bush needs to understand the US system. States have a lot of rights and the federal government is only to intervene if the state cannot fulfill its duties. Bush acted, albeit 24 hours much later than he should have but up until he was asked for help it was all Mayor & Governor.

I also blame mother nature for creating such a storm.

I blame Marylin Manson, and I'm waiting for Bush to blame it on Iran to get his war rolling.

I blame Marylin Manson, and I'm waiting for Bush to blame it on Iran to get his war rolling.

You'll be waiting awhile because you can't blame Iran for this one.

You'll be waiting awhile because you can't blame Iran for this one.

He's already shown us he can blame anyone for anything. Or he'll just deny everything.

"Hurricane Katrina is a myth perpetuated by liberal scientists with an evil agenda to bring down the USA and replace us all with communist tree-hugging robots, y'all!"

Isn't this a rather childish approach to such a major disaster? Many of you seem to be more interested in placing blame than in helping the people displaced by Katrina. As with most things in a society this massive, there's more than enough "blame" to go around.

Some of you hate President Bush so much that you'll blame him for virtually anything. I'm actually suprised that no one has yet blamed him for plate tectonics. It makes me wonder what your fathers did to you when you were little to make you hate authority figures so much. Yes, authority should always be questioned. Yes, authority can be and is wrong from time to time. But to consistently blame everything on the President just because you have authority issues is, IMHO, disengenuous in the extreme.


So. to paraphrase this little rant:

"Stop placing blame. Do what I do.... and blame your parents!"

This is a totally false statement. When we decided to go into Iraq and Afghanistan, it was decided to leave at least 50% of the Guard AT HOME to deal with disasters.

Only 35% of the LA national Guard was deployed overseas. This leaves 65% AT HOME to deal with disasters.

Why don't people ever get their facts straight.


A question I haven't seen answered though is how much of their EQUIPMENT is overseas.

Manpower is only as usefull as the tools they have, and given the rotational nature of the Guard personel sharing the heavy equipment, one has to wonder how much of their infrastructure remained in Lousiana to allow them to do what they needed to do.

Where is the blame the hurricane/not blaming anyone options?

A question I haven't seen answered though is how much of their EQUIPMENT is overseas.

Manpower is only as usefull as the tools they have, and given the rotational nature of the Guard personel sharing the heavy equipment, one has to wonder how much of their infrastructure remained in Lousiana to allow them to do what they needed to do.

If only 35% of the LA NG was deployed overseas, then they would take the amount of equipment needed, namely 35-40%. Still leaves plenty of trucks and hummers to move the state-side NG around.

Here is my blame matrix:

Mayor for not sticking to the evacuation protocol and getting the buses out and for moving people to the Superdome rather than out!


This one I DO agree may have been poorly managed, however few people seem to account for the conditions of the highways with the mass exodus. Sending buses out loaded would have been a one-way trip moving one load to safety. Keeping the buses in town allowed multiple trips to move people to shelters.

Not to mention one has to wonder how many qualified bus drivers the mayor could dredge up after he put out the evacuation order. City bus drivers are not, by nature, essential services who can be forced to remain and I'll bet most of them make enough to own a car and were on the highway with their family heading out of town.

But yes, I think that this could have been handled better.

Governor for not asking for help sooner and not sending in the national guard stationed in her state (you know the majority weren't in Iraq, they were at home).


the governor asked for help early enough. There is mounting evidence that help was deliberately withheld unless she knuckled under and ceded control.

Bush for not acting 24 hours quicker than he did.


DEfinitely. Not to mention FEMA for total situational unawareness.

Whatever numbskull thought it was more cost effectively to make the levee's strong enough to withstand a Category 3 and only a Category 3.


Lots of blame for that. Although recent budget cuts had the levees lagging behind maintainence to even that standard.

Whatever numbskull built a city under sea level in hurricane territory.

That would be the people that realized that geography had to be overcome in this case for the natural transit point from the Mississipi (brown water) to the Gulf (blue water). New Orleans grew because it became the gateway to the agricultural breadbasket of the US. Without it, the additional costs to the midwest to trailer or train their grain, corn, etc to foreign markets would hinder their competitiveness.

The alternative to developing New Orleans would have been to dredge the mississipi further upstream to allow deeper entry by the blue water fleet far enough inland until the land rises significantly higher. Frankly, that would have been an even more expensive proposition than the levee system, especially with the yearly costs to dredge out silt accumulation.

Of note, the ORIGINAL part of New Oreans (the French Quarter) withstood the hurrican quite nicely. It was the urban sprawl that didn't.


Too bad there isn't a multi-option thing.

Anyone putting 100% blame on Bush needs to understand the US system. States have a lot of rights and the federal government is only to intervene if the state cannot fulfill its duties. Bush acted, albeit 24 hours much later than he should have but up until he was asked for help it was all Mayor & Governor.

I also blame mother nature for creating such a storm.

the thing is that help WAS asked for far before it was provided - even with all of the jurisdictional bickering.

If only 35% of the LA NG was deployed overseas, then they would take the amount of equipment needed, namely 35-40%. Still leaves plenty of trucks and hummers to move the state-side NG around.


Bad assumption. Because the Guard is NOT full time troops. The notion that they neccessarily have an inventory of heavy equipment to provide to the FULL complement of available manpower at one time is not a given, and is not a requirement either.

Hell, even the regular army didn't have enough equipment to go around in some cases heading into IRaq because it hadn't been funded to have such things as body armour available for 150,000 troops in-country at one time, and the regular army is MUCH better finded than the guard.

I'm Bush like. The president is not to blame he was in Texas for three days after the storm, and the president cannot control hurricanes. He was on a much needed vacation from all his hard work of getting "earl", and had some woman outside of his ranch protesting over a uh um well I forgot what it was. But I've got my good friend dick down to take care of the situation. Remeber were gunna have a day of prayer, I'm in good with God. God likes "earl" too.

He's already shown us he can blame anyone for anything. Or he'll just deny everything.

"Hurricane Katrina is a myth perpetuated by liberal scientists with an evil agenda to bring down the USA and replace us all with communist tree-hugging robots, y'all!"

You really need to get a life. Even Bush hasn't done that and he never will. Why don't you grow up.

A question I haven't seen answered though is how much of their EQUIPMENT is overseas.

Manpower is only as usefull as the tools they have, and given the rotational nature of the Guard personel sharing the heavy equipment, one has to wonder how much of their infrastructure remained in Lousiana to allow them to do what they needed to do.

Here, you have a very good question. I'm sure they left equipment behind incase of a catastrophe.

However, in order to utilize it, the National Guard still needs permission to go in and only the Governor of that state can give that authorization. Unless of course that they are called up to active duty. Since these people weren't on active duty at the time, they still fall to the state governor for deployment.

You really need to get a life. Even Bush hasn't done that and he never will. Why don't you grow up.

Here on Earth, we call those jokes.

Isn't it blindingly obvious by now? if Bush hadn't gone to war, there'd be enough US soldiers back at home, where they're supposed to be, and the problem would've been sorted out in a day, instead of... well... it's still going on now, isn't it?

Late last year, when hurrican Ivan hit 3rd world country Cuba, the Cubans evacuated 17% of its entire population, or 1.5 MILLION people out of its path to safety in under 15 days. Even Fidel Castro was out there packing sand bags!!!

But 1st world country America has about a month to prepare to be hit... what does it do? It tells its citizens to find their own way out of the area, knowing full well many of them couldn't... and then the US couldn't even protect the people seeking shelter in the Super Dome!! What does Bush do? He pays a visit DAYS later, kissing babies as he goes... shit he didn't even carry any food supplies in his helicopter!

As Venezuelan president Hugo Chavez said, shortly after pledging medical aid and few million barrels of oil to help with disaster relief, "what sort of man tries to take over the world but can't even look after his own people?"

SHAME BUSH! SHAME!

The war in Iraq had nothing to do with any of this genius! Duh. We've got more than enough soldiers here to help. And we didn't have a MONTH! This thing wasn't alive for a month. Take a science course, would you? When one forms, you aren't able to say, "it's gonna hit Cuba, than FLorida, and hey, let's throw in New Orleans!" NO!! You can't predict this shit. They had enough warning to get out, but they didn't cause of the old "Cry Wolf" crap. So the only ones to actually blame are the stupid idiots who didn't get out.