NationStates Jolt Archive

This is a topic I've always had a desire to discuss but have been reluctant to for fear of seeming... well... sad but of course it doesn't matter on an internet forum.

So out of the 1980's and 1990's which decade do you think had the coolest fashion, music, films culture, etc.

Personally I'd go with the 80's, the legacy of Joy Division and Gang of Four more or less constituted its alternative rock scene (as opposed to the 60's mod revivalism and postpostmodernism that dominated that of the 90's) while it had a wealth of memorable pop music personalities such as Prince, Michael Jackson, Tracey Chapman and Madonna aswell as great rap acts like LL Cool J and NWA when both of them used to be good, not forgetting great heavy metal bands such as Metallica, Megadeth, Van Halen and Def Leppard (I'm not going to say Iron Maiden because they were plop). It was also a time of great films such as Blue Velvet, The Killer, Longtime Companion, Drugstore Cowboy, the Last Emperor, Das Boot, Videodrome, Blade Runner the Elephant Man and Heathers. I'm only sorry Thatcher and Reagan made it less fun than it could have been.

My beef with the 90's is that it was a time where everyone used to smugly laugh the 80's off and remark "Weren't we so silly and pompous back then? Thank God the 80's are over, now we've got real, talented music like Nirvana and Oasis" but in retrospect, the 90's seem even more pompous than the 80's. From that stupid faux-proletarian new lad fad, where bushnall haircuts and a penchant for chequered shirts were the "in" thing to the rise of fast-food trance music. If our culture was going downhill in the 80's, it took a bleeding nosedive in the 90's. The aforementioned 80's films also seemed to get their share of second rate counterparts in the 90's, for every Drugstore Cowboy there was a Trainspotting, for every Killer there was a Leon, for every Blade Runner there was a Fifth Element, for every Das Boot, there was a Crimson Tide. Like the 1960's which it tried but failed to imitate, the 1990's was awash in idealism, but unlike in the 1960's, it was a vacuous insincere idealism and thus, Blairism was born.

So I plead with anyone who continues to dismiss the 80's... think twice. It was more creative than the 90's and it was most certainly more creative than now. Mediocrity is considered a virtue in this era, I sometimes feel sick to think I'm growing up in it

blade runner is a vastly overrated movie.
biggie smalls is the greatest artist of our time.

blade runner is a vastly overrated movie.
biggie smalls is the greatest artist of our time.

I shall make you love the 80's, infidel :mp5:

i was born in the 80's therefor making them much cooler that the 90's

80's

I shall make you love the 80's, infidel :mp5:
the 80s was the only decade that could score a WWI epic (mel gibson's gallipoli) with horrible synthesizer screeching. In conclusion Waterworld was better than the mad max series.

also blade runner is a typical movie adopted by the intelligentsia to make itself seem sophisticated when in reality the movie remains one of the most clumsy and incoherent films of all time.

1980s Japanese cinema was also horrible. Look at Akira, featuring a giant cancerous baby ravaging Tokyo for no apparent reason. like blade runner, art house audiences just done with akira do not know what the fuck is going on but make sure to learn the "deep meanings" that somehow someone divined from these flimsy and incoherent plots.

Other than cinema, you make good arguments, the 80s was on average significantly better than the 90s.

The 80s... I missed the first half and the second part was overshadowed by the big event of the German newsprogram I watched switching from two different shades of Germany to one shade (Incidentally, the city I lived in was no longer a dent in the graphic of one of the Germanies). I didn't really start listening to music until the 90s, with Michael Jackson (yeah? so what? I'm not ashamed of having listened to him back then) being most popular. Crazy as he might be, he was original.

Michael Jackson is indeed a great, and misunderstood, man.

the 80's, but only by a hair. a few more good bands started in the 80's. BUT there are also a lot of great bands (and tv shows, now that i think about it) that started in the 80's and didn't really get good until the 90's. and as for films, i think it's about even...and i definitely had more fun in the 80's than in the 90's...i started going to public school in the 90's and everything went swiftly downhill from there. until 2000, that is.

Personally I'd go with the 80's, the legacy of Joy Division and Gang of Four more or less constituted its alternative rock scene (as opposed to the 60's mod revivalism and postpostmodernism that dominated that of the 90's) while it had a wealth of memorable pop music personalities such as Prince, Michael Jackson, Tracey Chapman and Madonna aswell as great rap acts like LL Cool J and NWA when both of them used to be good, not forgetting great heavy metal bands such as Metallica, Megadeth, Van Halen and Def Leppard (I'm not going to say Iron Maiden because they were plop).

i'll be the first loser that picks the 90's, for the exact reasons that you point out. i'll take the idealism of nirvana or the smashing pumpkins over the mysogyny of van halen or def leppard any day, and metallica/megadeth "my cock is bigger than yours" dinosaur guitar metal just fucking irks me. the 90's are better off for not having prince, michael jackson, madonna and ll cool j......although they had britney spears, puff daddy and korn; i'm not sure which is worse in that respect other than that they both show a level of patheticness.

what sticks out in the 90's was a level of musical creativity in the mainstream that had not been present since the late 60's/early 70's. i might even argue that rock music died as a popular phenomenon in 1973 with the dark side of the moon and was reborn again in 1991 with nevermind, as very little interesting mainstream rock music was released in those 17 years outside of the odd album by floyd themselves. but by the time '91 hit, all of a sudden social barriers were once again being broken, creativity was more important than technicality, women were once again more than t&a, artistic records were selling by the millions, rock stars became intelligent again and interested in their craft more than their wallets. it's really quite remarkable what happened between 1991 and 1995, and quite dissapointing what happened after that when all of these acts that had spent years and years scraping by finally hit it big and didn't want to leave.

however, on that note, one thing should not be ignored, which is that the 90's were an overflow of the 80's. nirvana formed sometime around '86, the pumpkins in '87, soundgarden in '84, nine inch nails in '88, sonic youth sometime in the late 70's i think....what happened in the 90's was not a marketing gimmick. it was a legitimate choice by consumerist america to say "fuck guns 'n' roses and the violent homophobic gun toting redneck horse they drove in on.....and all the rest of the metal scene with it."

it's just dissapointing that metal didn't die right there and then.

furthermore, the stuff that was cool in the 80's was not limited to joy division who had sadly dissapeared by '81. u2, rem, the cure, the chilli peppers, jane's addiction, sonic youth, etc, etc, etc were all in their prime in the early to mid 80's. what made the 80's suck is that it's mainstream culture was so cohesively terrible that i can't name a single mainstream 80's rock band (besides u2) that's worth listening to at all.

sp *that* is why i'll always respect what kurt cobain and billy corgan did in those few brief years. they stood up and said "america, you're a bunch of fucking idiots", and they were right, and before they died and sold out they made a very small difference......and then became the idiots that they so despised.

there was a post-post-modernism thing mostly out of chicago and montreal that tried to replace alternative rock but it's now been declared dead by nearly all, and now there really is nothing to replace it. we are again living in a world full of terrible music - not unlike we were in 1985.

the world needs another kurt cobain, dammit.

17 years

18, obviously. you know what they say about us math guys, we can't do arithmetic.


the world needs another kurt cobain, dammit.

on that note, if anybody knows a dave grohl in the greater ottawa area, please do let me know.

drummer's are very hard to find around here.

The 80s... I missed the first half and the second part was overshadowed by the big event of the German newsprogram I watched switching from two different shades of Germany to one shade (Incidentally, the city I lived in was no longer a dent in the graphic of one of the Germanies). I didn't really start listening to music until the 90s, with Michael Jackson (yeah? so what? I'm not ashamed of having listened to him back then) being most popular. Crazy as he might be, he was original.
Valid points youve got a TG.

For me, all it comes down to is:

Xanadu vs. Aon Flux

Ha-rumph...

Valid points youve got a TG.And there I was, thinking you were playing some tag game after I box was empty the last time I checked after you said that. :p

I'd have to say that haircuts like this (http://www.halloweenheaven.com/pics/WIGS/18511.jpg) and the popular clothing of the 80s (look at whitesnake for the love of god) puts the 90s above in that catagory. The 80s styles tried to live on through the early 90s but were stomped out permanently in the mid 90s.

While the 80s had some really awful movies, it did have such greats as Aliens, Red Dawn, Ferris Beuller's Day Off, Real Genius (funny movie) etc. The 90s had Pauly Shore. *shudder*
Pauly overshadows all decent movies from the 90s in this catagory.

The video game catagory is hands down for the 90s, but that was because technology was limited in the 80s. Moving on.

Musicwise, I think that the 80s music sucked for the most part, save a few little things. 90s music was a bit more bearable, because they didn't have that high pitched one tone techno abomination that was so prominent in the 80s. Nirvana was a breath of fresh air (late late eighties til when Kurt shot himself. I was in Seattle at the time.). Music hadn't been that good since the 70s. Then we go on to have the boyband craze in the 90s, which actually made Milli Vanilli sound good. Comparatively good. Still awful.

90s had more non-offensive-to-the-ears music than the 80s, so the 90s wins there.

The car styles....everything in the 80s save a few cars was a box with wheels. 90s wins.

The 80s had the original Transformers.

So, 80s. No contest.

I was born in the 90s, but I would say the 80s. That was when electropop really WAS electropop and not "house" or "hip-hop" or any other modern crap.

However, I think that the last ever good song was performed in the 90s by the M People...

Also, may I make my love for the Human League's Phil Oakey's hairstyle in the 80s known.

'80s had A-Team, Airwolf, Hulk Hogan, loads of teen sex comedies and slasher movies, and no Nirvana, so I gotta go with '80s.

the legacy of Joy Division and Gang of Four more or less constituted its alternative rock scene (as opposed to the 60's mod revivalism and postpostmodernism that dominated that of the 90's)

I think, to be honest, you are being rather Noughties (god i hate that phrase) by singling out Gang of Four. They weren't that huge at the time, they weren't that influential at the time, the punk-funk thing was over very quickly. It's only the current Franz Ferdinand influenced scene which brought them back into vogue. And not all of that stuff sounded good, then or now. Remember Blancmange? I do. Ugh. I'll come back to your "mod revivalism" comment in a while.

while it had a wealth of memorable pop music personalities such as Prince, Michael Jackson, Tracey Chapman and Madonna aswell as great rap acts like LL Cool J and NWA when both of them used to be good, not forgetting great heavy metal bands such as Metallica, Megadeth, Van Halen and Def Leppard (I'm not going to say Iron Maiden because they were plop).

Jackson was already on the wane after 1984. Prince after 87. Madonna produced her only good music in the late 90s. Tracy Chapman was always awful. LL Cool J? Ok, passable. NWA? A blemish on Cube and Dre's behind. Now, if you'd said Public Enemy, i would have agreed. Metal? Ugh. Seriously.

It was also a time of great films such as Blue Velvet, The Killer, Longtime Companion, Drugstore Cowboy, the Last Emperor, Das Boot, Videodrome, Blade Runner the Elephant Man and Heathers. I'm only sorry Thatcher and Reagan made it less fun than it could have been.

The 80s was also the time of films such as "Flashdance" and "Rambo" and "ET" (God, i hate ET). It was the time of films like "Tarzan: Legend of Greystoke" and "Tron" (sorry, no amount of revivalism will let me believe Tron was anything but shite) and "Top Gun" and "Karate Kid" and "Porkys" and "Rain Man" (ooh, mental illness films, that'll get us the Oscar). "Trainspotting" was better than "Drugstore Cowboy", sorry, but it's true. "Videodrome" was the usual slow Cronenberg wank (he only ever made a few halfway decent movies). I'll grant you "Heathers", yes. I'll grant you "Bladerunner", but then again, the actual PROPER Directors edition of "BladeRunner" wasn't released until...errr...the 90s.

My beef with the 90's is that it was a time where everyone used to smugly laugh the 80's off and remark "Weren't we so silly and pompous back then? Thank God the 80's are over, now we've got real, talented music like Nirvana and Oasis" but in retrospect, the 90's seem even more pompous than the 80's. From that stupid faux-proletarian new lad fad, where bushnall haircuts and a penchant for chequered shirts were the "in" thing to the rise of fast-food trance music. If our culture was going downhill in the 80's, it took a bleeding nosedive in the 90's.

It's the fucking 80s that is the problem. Wham on the radio, Thatcher in power, Greed is good the mantra, culture and society being destroyed - "no such thing as society, there is only individuals and the market", livelihoods being taken away, communities being ripped apart. And your little rant there was very 1991-94, btw, did nothing happen AFTER Britpop?


The aforementioned 80's films also seemed to get their share of second rate counterparts in the 90's, for every Drugstore Cowboy there was a Trainspotting, for every Killer there was a Leon, for every Blade Runner there was a Fifth Element, for every Das Boot, there was a Crimson Tide. Like the 1960's which it tried but failed to imitate, the 1990's was awash in idealism, but unlike in the 1960's, it was a vacuous insincere idealism and thus, Blairism was born.

So I plead with anyone who continues to dismiss the 80's... think twice. It was more creative than the 90's and it was most certainly more creative than now. Mediocrity is considered a virtue in this era, I sometimes feel sick to think I'm growing up in it

Not at all. Not at all. I give you "Mezzanine" and "The Usual Suspects" and "This is Hardcore" and "Man Bites Dog" and "Screamadelica" and "The Crow Road" and "Ladies and Gentlemen we are floating in Space" and "The Black Album" (the book, not the album *g*) and "Reservoir Dogs" and "Let's Get Killed" and "Millers Crossing" and "Lifeforms" and "Fargo" and "Underworld" and "The Invisibles" and "Pulp Fiction" and "Debut" and "The Dying Animal" and "Goodfellas" and "Modern Life is Rubbsh" and "Preacher" and "Ok Computer" and "Fight Club" and "Wowee Zowee" and "The Information" and "Giant Steps" and "American History X" and "Endtroducing" and " F#A#oo" and "Good Morning Spider" and "Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness" and and and...you get my point?

80's porno sucks :D

" F#A#oo"

hey. that looks familiar.

it's funny how the infinity always gets transformed into "oo".

I think, to be honest, you are being rather Noughties (god i hate that phrase) by singling out Gang of Four. They weren't that huge at the time, they weren't that influential at the time, the punk-funk thing was over very quickly. It's only the current Franz Ferdinand influenced scene which brought them back into vogue. And not all of that stuff sounded good, then or now. Remember Blancmange? I do. Ugh. I'll come back to your "mod revivalism" comment in a while.



Jackson was already on the wane after 1984. Prince after 87. Madonna produced her only good music in the late 90s. Tracy Chapman was always awful. LL Cool J? Ok, passable. NWA? A blemish on Cube and Dre's behind. Now, if you'd said Public Enemy, i would have agreed. Metal? Ugh. Seriously.

Well I think bands like Bon Jovi , U2 and Guns N' Roses maybe scrape a few points, but agree on the whole, although I think the late 90s is pretty shocking after 1997.

The 80s was also the time of films such as "Flashdance" and "Rambo" and "ET" (God, i hate ET). It was the time of films like "Tarzan: Legend of Greystoke" and "Tron" (sorry, no amount of revivalism will let me believe Tron was anything but shite) and "Top Gun" and "Karate Kid" and "Porkys" and "Rain Man" (ooh, mental illness films, that'll get us the Oscar). "Trainspotting" was better than "Drugstore Cowboy", sorry, but it's true. "Videodrome" was the usual slow Cronenberg wank (he only ever made a few halfway decent movies). I'll grant you "Heathers", yes. I'll grant you "Bladerunner", but then again, the actual PROPER Directors edition of "BladeRunner" wasn't released until...errr...the 90s.

Blade Runner is overrated but what about Back to the Future, Terminator and Die Hard. Classics!

It's the fucking 80s that is the problem. Wham on the radio, Thatcher in power, Greed is good the mantra, culture and society being destroyed - "no such thing as society, there is only individuals and the market", livelihoods being taken away, communities being ripped apart. And your little rant there was very 1991-94, btw, did nothing happen AFTER Britpop?.

What decade was Live Aid in? The 80s. Governments have always been shit, but the 80s no more so for selfishness.

I was born in '89, so I grew up in the 90's.

I'm sure you're expecting me to say that I liked the 90's better, except that my childhood sucked. I'm gonna go with the 80's, it had to have been better.

I was only born in '83 and don't really now enough about films or fashion to comment on them- but as for music the 90s were far superior to the 80s. I've heard a lot of 80s music and can count the bands I rate on one hand- namely The Smiths, The Stranglers and The Stone Roses and a few others (if i'm including American Bands I'm not sure what years The Pixies or The Lemonheads formed in- but they were ok as well). From what I've heard the rest of it was a hell of a load of New Romantic trash- Spandeu Ballet, Duran Duran, Human League et al.

Most of the good new British Music in the early nineties was a response to the Grungey stuff coming out of America. Blur and Suede started if off with some more uplifiting music that people in my genetraion could relate to (ie- they weren't a bunch off rich Duran-Duranesque boys loyal to Thatcher until the death, And they weren't a bunch of depressed Seatle kids hooked on heroin). Oasis came along and by 1995 there seemed to be hundreds of new bands who all sounded great- even those who had just turned up with guitars and tried to make a bit of cash (remember Menswear anyone??) There was a one off tv-show in 1995 that had all the greats on- Blur, Pulp, Elastica, Sleeper, Supergrass... that I always look back to and remember how great that year actually was. It was the year that got me interested in music and i'll never forget it. All those bands then started to feel the affects of fame and fortune and many fell by the wayside- But Radiohead and The Verve were also great 90s bands later on.

And of course the 90s inspired the quote at the bottom of this page..... (any takers- one of you knows it...)

Ok- no quote at the bottom of the page- forget that bit- computers' broke!

the 80s were miserable...except they did have the best cartoons and toys in my opinion...he-man, gi joe, transformers, MASK, fat albert, dungeons and dragons, ghostbusters, hulk hogan wrestling, inspector gadget, thundercats

models from the 90s were much hotter though

Hey I like the 90s because I was born in 1991 ;-)

what sticks out in the 90's was a level of musical creativity in the mainstream that had not been present since the late 60's/early 70's. i might even argue that rock music died as a popular phenomenon in 1973 with the dark side of the moon and was reborn again in 1991 with nevermind, as very little interesting mainstream rock music was released in those 17 years outside of the odd album by floyd themselves. but by the time '91 hit, all of a sudden social barriers were once again being broken, creativity was more important than technicality, women were once again more than t&a, artistic records were selling by the millions, rock stars became intelligent again and interested in their craft more than their wallets. it's really quite remarkable what happened between 1991 and 1995, and quite dissapointing what happened after that when all of these acts that had spent years and years scraping by finally hit it big and didn't want to leave.


I think that is drastically overstating it. Given that you pretty much rule out the rest of the prog-rock movement, much of punk, people like Stevie Ray bringing heavy slide blues back into the mainstrea,

Sure, there was Disco in that interval, and there were all the cookie-cutter hair bands of the 80s, but to state that there was no creativity through the continued works of Genesis, Yes, Dire Straits, Steve Winwood, the Police, Bowie, and a very, very, VERY long list of others is rediculous.

If that era of music did ONE thing it was to bring more elements of the music of the rest of the world into the mainstream for others to take advantage. Mixing delta blues with pop. Bringing Reggae into the popular lexicon. Paul Simon bringing African Music to the popular world in a way not seen since Belefonte, and Peter Gabriel's constant expansion of what we took pop music to be.

Not to mention the begining of moving Rap into the mainstream with Run DMC leading the pack.



Frankly, if you think there was no creativity in those 17 years, you weren't paying attention.




Not sure where yuo get girls just being T&A during that generation either. sure there have ALWAYS been some who trade in only on their looks. But I don't think that you could ever accuse Linda Ross, Donna Summer, Stevie Nicks, Joan JEtt, PAt Benetar, Tracey Chapman, Cyndi Lauper, the girls from Heart, or even Madonna of just being fluff at the time.

80's porno sucks :D


True.


Except that back then at least Ron Jeremy was about 100 pounds lighter than he is today...

I think that is drastically overstating it. Given that you pretty much rule out the rest of the prog-rock movement, much of punk, people like Stevie Ray bringing heavy slide blues back into the mainstrea,

Sure, there was Disco in that interval, and there were all the cookie-cutter hair bands of the 80s, but to state that there was no creativity through the continued works of Genesis, Yes, Dire Straits, Steve Winwood, the Police, Bowie, and a very, very, VERY long list of others is rediculous.

If that era of music did ONE thing it was to bring more elements of the music of the rest of the world into the mainstream for others to take advantage. Mixing delta blues with pop. Bringing Reggae into the popular lexicon. Paul Simon bringing African Music to the popular world in a way not seen since Belefonte, and Peter Gabriel's constant expansion of what we took pop music to be.

Not to mention the begining of moving Rap into the mainstream with Run DMC leading the pack.



Frankly, if you think there was no creativity in those 17 years, you weren't paying attention.




Not sure where yuo get girls just being T&A during that generation either. sure there have ALWAYS been some who trade in only on their looks. But I don't think that you could ever accuse Linda Ross, Donna Summer, Stevie Nicks, Joan JEtt, PAt Benetar, Tracey Chapman, Cyndi Lauper, the girls from Heart, or even Madonna of just being fluff at the time.

Good points. There were a lot of great bands in the 80s, they just didn't get much airplay.

Dead Kennedys
Descendents
Pixies
Stiff Little Fingers
Talking Heads
Metallica
Husker Du
Agent Orange

And the late 80s is when bands like Nirvana, Soundgarden, Smashing Pumpkins, and NOFX got started

there is no question, the 90s rocked. Musically one simple reason- Radiohead. They blow all bands that have ever existed out of the water apart from the beatles and queen. Theyre the only band being really innovative in these drab unoriginal 80s rip off days and they were amazing in the 90s. Music got so much better, gone were the cheesy metal and spandex of the 80s, thank fuck poison died. In terms of movies its a closer call. The 80s had terminator, aliens, predator, robocop, edward scissor hands, bttf I and II...the list goes on but the 90s had its fair share of outstanding filmic achievements, like 12 monkeys, pulp fiction, the matrix, leon, terminator II, trainspotting, american psycho (a parody of the 80s and spot on) et al.

The 80s were soulless. It was dominated by the cult of the yuppie and had two of the worst world leaders ever- thatcher and reagan. For its conservatism it was akin to the 50s. And for the most part musically it sucked, I mean most of what was in the charts was homogenized synth shite. 90s bands are so much better, not just radiohead. At least in the 90s we didnt have a greed is good mentality and video games made huge advances. The basic principles of polygon texture mapped graphics still apply to todays games. What a landmark in video gaming history.

At least in the 90s ... video games made huge advances. The basic principles of polygon texture mapped graphics still apply to todays games. What a landmark in video gaming history.

Those advences were far more about hardware advances than anything else.

If you think the algoriths for clipping, plygon texture mapping etc, weren't largely developed in the 80s then you are saddly mistaken, and much of that came out of ILM, LucasArts, and Pixar during the late 80s (try looking at the date on Pixar's RenderMan patent - '88 for example)

im not disputing that. my point was that it broke through to the mainstream.

i was born in the 80's therefor making them much cooler that the 90's
I second that :p

90's.

I really don't like 80's music. And it also seemed a bit too...Disco-ish.

<vomits>

90s...one word: Grunge

80s... two words: hair metal

Ok. Everyone who thinks the 90s have even the slightest chance of competing with the 80s, especially in terms of music, are idiots. For one thing, that comment about Iron Maiden back on the first page is rubbish. Iron Maiden is so cool and awesome it makes me want to crap my pants. For another thing, metal is infinitely preferable to grunge for several reasons:

1. Kurt Cobain is history's biggest douchebag.
2. The two musical movements have completely different messages, but one (metal) also has musical talent thrown into the mix.
3. The message of grunge is: "Geez. I hate my parents, and this whole life sucks." Who wants to listen to that? We know life sucks. That's why I like bands like Motley Crue, because they knew that life sucked, but they, and their metal brethren provided a good-times escape from said life for a few glorious hours.
4. Guns N Roses, the greatest, most talented rock band of all time, was born during the 80s. Yes, you may argue, the incredible Use Your Illusion albums were released in the 90s, but to a large extent, GNR was carrying the torch of the 80s into an ugly new era. Also, the most rockin, best work of GNR was during the 80s.
5. Along with Guns N Roses, a slew of other incredible bands rocked the eighties HARD.
6. The 90s, in comparison, offered early rap (which is good, but still can't compete with good old hard rock), grunge, kitchy punk bands, and teen pop. The last three, of course, are not music.

There. That's just music alone. The 80s have the edge in several other areas, but I don't feel like writing about those at the moment, so I'll go listen to "Estranged."

Frankly, I've found music to love in both decades. In the late 80s, when I hit high school, I discovered bands that weren't played on the radio (except for college stations, that came later). The Cure, The Smiths, New Order... it was sweet! Plus, I went to a GNR/Metallica double show just to see the opening act, Faith No More, and I'll admit that I was blown away by Metallica's show. Now THAT was a concert - and trust me, I didn't think I had it in me to love a metal concert.

In the 90s, however, that's when I got into brit pop and have never looked back. PULP! Best band of all time! JAMES! A close second. And what about Wonderstuff, the Pogues, Flaming Lips, Gandharvas, Stone Roses, Jesus & the Mary Chain, Echo & The Bunnymen... it was a time of musical wonderland.

Glad to see that bands like the Killers, Strokes and White Stripes are picking up the slack. I still listen to my old school brit pop, but I like to think I can still find new artists to enjoy at the ripe old age of 31!

I think that is drastically overstating it. Given that you pretty much rule out the rest of the prog-rock movement, much of punk, people like Stevie Ray bringing heavy slide blues back into the mainstream

well....i think prog kind of died about '73 or '74. once it went completely mainstream, it lost it's edge and kind of fell apart into doofy pop (genesis, saga, etc) and pretentious wankerism (yes, elp). there was still oldfield (who also lost it in the 80's) and crimson (who i think was at their best in the 80's) but that's about it and i don't think either were selling that many records in the late 70's although i know that oldfield was in the mid 70's.

i'd say the same thing about punk music....the few acts that made it big (sex pistols, ramones) were terrible representations of what was actually good in the scene, which never did.

stevie ray was an excellent guitarist, and i've studied his work at length, actually. was he a creative force? not really. a lot of what he did was very derivative of hendrix, with a touch of the deep south (like lee and king) thrown in. was he very mainstream? well, i wasn't born yet but i'd guess the highest selling records he had anything to do with were the bowie records he played on...

....and his best work was in the very early 90's.


Sure, there was Disco in that interval, and there were all the cookie-cutter hair bands of the 80s, but to state that there was no creativity through the continued works of Genesis,


i think genesis started losing it the moment gabriel left and went completely to shit when hackett left.


Yes,


they've always sucked :)

Dire Straits, Steve Winwood,

not really familiar with them outside of a few big hits that seem rather trite.

the Police

.....alright, the police are cool. almost.

Bowie

and bowie did have the berlin trilogy in the late 70's. but besides that, there's not a lot of good bowie between aladdin sane and outside, i don't think....

and Peter Gabriel's constant expansion of what we took pop music to be.

i do like gabriel's work, but he didn't really hit it big here until '86 after he had done his best album work....although his soundtrack work since then has been nothing short of genious, it's not selling by truckloads that way that "so" did, by far his worst record.

Not to mention the begining of moving Rap into the mainstream with Run DMC leading the pack.

i'm not really interested in rap, but i haven't explored it either.

as i pointed out in the first post there was lots of stuff i liked in the 80's, and if you want to get into what was really happening underneath madonna and guns 'n' roses there really is some remarkable music from skinny puppy to a belew-led crimson to biafra and the dead kennedys to early rem to sonic youth, etc, etc.....but these were all very "uncool" kinds of music to listen to in the time period, whereas in the 90's (at least the early 90's) it was "cool" to like good music again.


Frankly, if you think there was no creativity in those 17 years, you weren't paying attention.


i'm pretty sure i said "in the mainstream". furthermore, "no" does not mean an absolute "none". even nowadays, which is the worst i've ever seen it, there are a couple of decent mainstream rock acts.


Not sure where yuo get girls just being T&A during that generation either.


well, i didn't mean the girls themselves i meant the way they were represented in male-run mainstream culture from beer commercials to metal videos on mtv. it was an attack on men, not on women.

Five words.

Huey.
Lewis.
And.
The.
News.

Go 80's!

Also, another big point for the eighties. Circa 86.

...


Unicron.

The 90s were certainly better. I was around for both. There was plenty of crap in the 90s, especially if you were around to see it, but to be honest I look back on it today as a real miniature golden age in a number of ways.

As far as movies go, in the eighties there were still some actors working in Hollywood, in the nineties they were replaced by the movie-stars(Will Smith, Bruce Willis and others), so the eighties cinema was better.
Music, eighties hooky pop vs. nineties angst for no reason boredom/grunge rock and the rise of hip-hop. Eighties in a walk. Not very good, but not continuing to annoy me.And Brits, what's the thing you have with Radiohead? They are middle-of-the-road at best. Certainly nothing transcendant or exceptional.
Music and fashion have been a series of increasingly ridiculous fads pushing each other aside begining with and since the cocaine, polyester and disco 70's.
Fashion, I have to go with the nineties. Clothes didn't lokk great but at least were comfortable.
About the whole greed of the eighties thing I keep hearing, remeber this, executive salaries exploded in the nineties even above the huge rise of the eighties. Fraud and white-collar crime are much more common and costly during the nineties and continue to this day. The Gordon Gecko 'Greed is good!' line from Wall Street, the film not the place, I keep hearing is bullshit. If Gordon Gecko were a real person the CEO of any Fortune 500 company today would eat him alive before lunch. Greed might have been good in the eighties, but in the nineties and since it is expectec and demanded, so common it is the only way to compete. Remeber as well that the eighties were slightly before all manufactoring began to be 'outsourced' to nations with sweat-shop economies, as well.

Better? Eighties, by a nose.

In the 90s, however, that's when I got into brit pop and have never looked back. PULP! Best band of all time! JAMES! A close second. And what about Wonderstuff, the Pogues, Flaming Lips, Gandharvas, Stone Roses, Jesus & the Mary Chain, Echo & The Bunnymen... it was a time of musical wonderland.

Whilst i argued in favour of the 90s, strongly, i will have to say you kinda undercut that with your selections:-
Pulp = 80s
James = 80s
Wonderstuff = 80s
Pogues = 80s
Stone Roses = 80s
JAMC = 80s
Echo and the Bunnymen = 80s.

You could say Pulp and James made their best material in the 90s (and i'd tend to agree, although i have a fondness for "Stutter" by James which was 87 i think), but the best Stone Roses album was the first, 1989, the Pogues were never any good after Shane left in the late 80s, the Wonderstuff peaked in 91, and the JAMC and Echo and the Bunnymen produced their best stuff in the 80s by FAR.

These, however, are islands of talent in a musical scene of hair-rock banality, Stock Aitken and Waterman mass produced pop, Wham and Dire Straits. Ugh, Ugh, Ugh and Ugh.

Hmm.

The 80's has good music, but you have to dig a little to find it, because there was a lot of shit.

The (early) 90's has good music that usually requires less digging, and less shit music...because rock was cool again.

The 90's win.

During the 1990's I always hated the 80's. I was born in the mid 80's so I was really a 90's child. But now that I'm older I prefer the 80's, the music was funnier, the films were bizarre and the clothes entertaining....the recession wasn't so good tho :(

I can't believe no-one has mentioned the eighties ska bands yet - Bad Manners, The Beat, The Special AKA, some of the greatest bands of the early eighties. They managed to combine intelligent, talented music with social commentary and still make it fun to listen to. I was quite a fan of 90s music (most notably Pulp and Radiohead) but compared to the Ska scene they were so depressing. Music is something that is supposed to lift your spirits and be fun. I defy anybody to listen to "Rudi" by The Specials and not have a smile on their face.

(I'm not going to say Iron Maiden because they were plop)

If you think Iron Maiden are pop then you are an idiot. You don't have to like them to realise they are one of the metal classics.

Whilst I agree the 80s was definitely better musically, the horrible pop music that also arose then has led to the complete and utter crap we have today. It started low and simply got lower.

The 1980s was the best so far because of Thatcher and the end of communism. I remember history because of the political side of things, rather than because of music or culture.

If you think Iron Maiden are pop then you are an idiot. You don't have to like them to realise they are one of the metal classics.

Whilst I agree the 80s was definitely better musically, the horrible pop music that also arose then has led to the complete and utter crap we have today. It started low and simply got lower.


There has been crap since the dawn of music. from Bubblegum to disco to Britney.


Blaming any one decade for it silly as each decade has it's share (Shawn Cassidy, Leif Garrett and ABBA anyone?). It's music for pre-teens (and young teens), who will ALWAYS be a viable market to sell too.

And then we all grow up ....

90's, definitely.

I grew up in the 90's, and there wasn't so much shitty synth-pop music (some of it was good, yes, but most was god-awful).

I can't believe no-one has mentioned the eighties ska bands yet - Bad Manners, The Beat, The Special AKA, some of the greatest bands of the early eighties. They managed to combine intelligent, talented music with social commentary and still make it fun to listen to. I was quite a fan of 90s music (most notably Pulp and Radiohead) but compared to the Ska scene they were so depressing. Music is something that is supposed to lift your spirits and be fun. I defy anybody to listen to "Rudi" by The Specials and not have a smile on their face.

Bad Manners? God almighty.

Ok. Everyone who thinks the 90s have even the slightest chance of competing with the 80s, especially in terms of music, are idiots. For one thing, that comment about Iron Maiden back on the first page is rubbish. Iron Maiden is so cool and awesome it makes me want to crap my pants. For another thing, metal is infinitely preferable to grunge for several reasons:

1. Kurt Cobain is history's biggest douchebag.
2. The two musical movements have completely different messages, but one (metal) also has musical talent thrown into the mix.
3. The message of grunge is: "Geez. I hate my parents, and this whole life sucks." Who wants to listen to that? We know life sucks. That's why I like bands like Motley Crue, because they knew that life sucked, but they, and their metal brethren provided a good-times escape from said life for a few glorious hours.
4. Guns N Roses, the greatest, most talented rock band of all time, was born during the 80s. Yes, you may argue, the incredible Use Your Illusion albums were released in the 90s, but to a large extent, GNR was carrying the torch of the 80s into an ugly new era. Also, the most rockin, best work of GNR was during the 80s.
5. Along with Guns N Roses, a slew of other incredible bands rocked the eighties HARD.
6. The 90s, in comparison, offered early rap (which is good, but still can't compete with good old hard rock), grunge, kitchy punk bands, and teen pop. The last three, of course, are not music.

There. That's just music alone. The 80s have the edge in several other areas, but I don't feel like writing about those at the moment, so I'll go listen to "Estranged."

To answer your post in order. Anyone who thinks the music in the 80s was all about metal, and anyone who thinks the 90s were all about grunge is an idiot. Iron Maiden were, are and always will be a complete joke, and stink of being 19, playing Dungeons and Dragons and not losing your virginity.
(1) Mr Cobain - whom i met - was an over-rated musician whose music i didn't particularly enjoy. However, how you think you can cast judgements on his character is beyond me.
(2) Excuse me? Are you still wittering on about metal versus grunge? The 90s had more than grunge. I could name a dozen musical "scenes" that existed then.
(3) Oh god, Motley CRUE? God, does anyone still take Motley Crue or Iron Maiden seriously?
(4) If you seriously think Guns'N'Roses were the "most talented rock band of all time", you have issues.
(5) And this is where you name them........no?
(6) "The last three, of course, are not music"? WHAT?

I'm baffled what you think this series of pronouncements proves.

jeez your all idiots. Everyone has their opinion. Calling someone an idiot for it is an idiot. chillax.

Nirvana

Nirvana

Best one-word post ever. :p

80's is much better. :D

The 80s/ Early 90s (very early, like a day)

First of all, we have the best rap.

Grandmaster Flash and the Furious Five, Public Enemy, Ice T, Beastie Boys, etc.

What do the 90s have? P Diddy saying he has money coming out of his anus. Rap was RAW and the beats were AWESOME.

We also had the best rock. We have thrashing guitar solos and high pitched men singing with lots of hair in tight leather pants, how is that not awesome.

Then the movies... yes. Plus there was so much crap happening, wot?! Come on man, the '80s were the greatest, its music too. Oh and... "It's Raining Men" came on it '81 I think.

Plus don't forget... GARY NUMAN. WAH!! Boy George too, oh and the Divinyls. Oh and... Guns and Roses made good rock, before Axel got insane, plus Slash had the top hat! Come on! But if there was one thing that I hate about the 80s, that would be MTV... I don't know why I just do. So really, the 80s had the best Pop, Rock, Rap, and Polka too. Hell, plus we had better clothes. So SCREW YOU. BWA HA HA.

Ah.. sorry. I got carried away.

I can't believe no-one has mentioned the eighties ska bands yet - Bad Manners, The Beat, The Special AKA, some of the greatest bands of the early eighties. They managed to combine intelligent, talented music with social commentary and still make it fun to listen to. I was quite a fan of 90s music (most notably Pulp and Radiohead) but compared to the Ska scene they were so depressing. Music is something that is supposed to lift your spirits and be fun. I defy anybody to listen to "Rudi" by The Specials and not have a smile on their face.

that's because ska is a blight on all humanity. I prefer propaghandi's "ska sucks" to "rudi"

The 80s/ Early 90s (very early, like a day)

First of all, we have the best rap.

Grandmaster Flash and the Furious Five, Public Enemy, Ice T, Beastie Boys, etc.

Early rap was good. Public Enemy especially, though Ice T was cool as well.

Early rap was good. Public Enemy especially, though Ice T was cool as well.

Yes, it was real. Now it's all about booty and cash. Bah. We need 2Pac and B.I.G. back. Their deaths signified the death of real rap. (They were 90s, but eh)

Anyway Kanabia, what be ye MSN?[/hijack]

Yes, it was real. Now it's all about booty and cash. Bah. We need 2Pac and B.I.G. back. Their deaths signified the death of real rap. (They were 90s, but eh)

Anyway Kanabia, what be ye MSN?[/hijack]

ckairys@hotmail.com

Be warned though, i'm not a *real* rap fan, so I don't know a lot. I just like those two :p

(Though the only Ice-T I have is his Bodycount stuff.)

There has been crap since the dawn of music. from Bubblegum to disco to Britney.


Blaming any one decade for it silly as each decade has it's share (Shawn Cassidy, Leif Garrett and ABBA anyone?). It's music for pre-teens (and young teens), who will ALWAYS be a viable market to sell too.

And then we all grow up ....

I know and I'm not saying it was only the 80s, just that a larger wave than normal of horrible pop music arrived around then. Thankfully it was ballanced out by all the other good bands.

Iron Maiden were, are and always will be a complete joke, and stink of being 19, playing Dungeons and Dragons and not losing your virginity.

Bah, heresy. Maiden happened to be one of the most talented bands of the 80s and they still possess a massive fan base even today.

Yes, it was real. Now it's all about booty and cash. Bah. We need 2Pac and B.I.G. back. Their deaths signified the death of real rap.

I disagree. Snoop Dogg, Dr. Dre, and Ice Cube put out good albums after Pac and Big died. Tupac even put out a few great albums. Plus there are some young guys like The Game who keep "real rap" alive. And guys like Kanye are putting out fresh sounds and keep it evolving.

i'm for the 80's - the 90's were ok but the 80's were more enjoyable more origianl and all i can say to the one who says waterworld was cool movie is " it totally sucked!! "

I disagree. Snoop Dogg, Dr. Dre, and Ice Cube put out good albums after Pac and Big died. Tupac even put out a few great albums. Plus there are some young guys like The Game who keep "real rap" alive. And guys like Kanye are putting out fresh sounds and keep it evolving.

The idea that Tupac and Biggie Smalls made "good" rap music is laughable. And the idea that the vast majority of current "rap" is any good is laughable, or at least the stuff that makes it big. I'll agree about Kanye West, and i'll agree that there's some good stuff out there - Outkast spring to mind, as does Roots Manuva from the UK, but most of what passes as rap nowadays is merely lazy r'n'b with talking over the top - for example, 50 Pence (as he's known here in the UK) isn't fit to shine the shoes of Chuck D.

Problem is, rap got sucked into that cul-de-sac of gangsterism after Cube and Dre, Tupac and Biggie run with that and made it a celebration of it (with some of the most ham-fisted rhymes and songs ever) whereas it was never a celebration beforehand, merely a reportage. Then you have the Bling Bling idiots like Puff Daddy coming along. Now the field is full of nonentities who think it's all about how many "motherfuckers" they can fit into a sentence whilst talking about how many people they killed and how rich they are. "Gangster" rap was never initially about this, and i find it quite depressing that something that started as an indictment of the situation a lot of black people have to live in ended up a cartoonish celebration of it, part of the problem rather than part of the solution.

Some interesting points here

Iron Maiden is so cool and awesome it makes me want to crap my pants.

Should see a doctor about that mate- sounds scary

(I'm not going to say Iron Maiden because they were plop)
If you think Iron Maiden are pop then you are an idiot.

No- I think he/she did mean plop....


And Brits, what's the thing you have with Radiohead? They are middle-of-the-road at best. Certainly nothing transcendant or exceptional.

What? Radiohead?? Middle of the road????? Have you only ever heard 'Creep' or something??????? I can't think of anything less middle of the road then 'Kid A' or 'Hail to the Thief' I can name a million bands that Americans rave about that are "nothing transcendant or exceptional"- stop sending Foo Fighters albums over here!

The 1980s was the best so far because of Thatcher and the end of communism.

Ugh! Weren't they the two worst things about the 80's apart from Iron Maiden???

Gotta be the 90s- but as i get older and wiser i'm starting to appreciate the 80's. Me and my mate got in a drunken stupor the other night and started singing Mike and The Mechanics's 'Looking back over my shoulder'- was that 80s???

Big hair. (sighs) I loved the 80's :D

Early rap was good. Public Enemy especially, though Ice T was cool as well.

Public Enemy were perhaps the most overrated rap group of their time. No wonder Spike Lee liked them.

I disagree. Snoop Dogg, Dr. Dre, and Ice Cube put out good albums after Pac and Big died. Tupac even put out a few great albums. Plus there are some young guys like The Game who keep "real rap" alive. And guys like Kanye are putting out fresh sounds and keep it evolving.

Yes, good point. Kanye is one of the few who can make good stuff. But hell, you have to admit that the 80s were the golden age.