NationStates Jolt Archive

For anyone wanting to help the suffering people of New Orleans, here is some advice.

Wednesday, September 7th, 2005
Here's How You Can Make an Immediate Difference in Louisiana ...a message from Michael Moore

Friends,

There is much to be said and done about the manmade annihilation of New Orleans, caused NOT by a hurricane but by the very specific decisions made by the Bush administration in the past four and a half years. Do not listen to anyone who says we can discuss all this later. No, we can't. Our country is in an immediate state of vulnerability. More hurricanes and other disasters are on the way, and a lazy bunch of self-satisfied lunatics are still running the show.

So, in the next few days, I will write to you about what must be done about Bush and Co.

But today I want you to join with me in bypassing the colossally inept and incompetent Bush administration and get help DIRECTLY to the people of the New Orleans area -- right now.

A lot of you have written me to ask what you can do. Many don't know who to trust. Many want to do more than write a check. You are right to think that writing checks to relief agencies will not get water and aid to people in the next 48 hours. Checks will be needed later and can be written later.

I have a way, though, for each and every one of us to do something today that can affect people's lives TODAY.

For the past few days I've been working with a group that, I guarantee you, will get direct aid to the people who need it most.

Cindy Sheehan, the brave woman who dared to challenge Mr. Bush at his summer home, has now sent her Camp Casey from in front of Bush's ranch to the outskirts of New Orleans. The Veterans for Peace have taken all the equipment and staff of volunteers and set up camp in Covington, Louisiana, on the shores of Lake Pontchartrain. They are accepting materials and personally distributing them to those in need and have been going into New Orleans on a daily basis.

This is where we come in. We need to ship supplies to them immediately. Today they need the following:

Bottled Water (and lots of it!), baby diapers, baby wipes, baby formula, Pedialyte, baby items in general, powder, lotion, handy wipes, sterile gloves, electrolytes, LARGE cans of veggies, school supplies, paper plates, paper towels, toilet paper, and anything else to lift people's spirits.

You can ship these items by following the instructions on VFPRoadTrips.org. Or you can deliver them there in person. The roads to Covington are open. Their address is:

Volunteer Kitchen, Food Bank and Distribution Center
Pine View Middle School
1115 West 28th Avenue Covington, LA.
70434

Here's how to get there. You can drop them off or you can stay and participate (if you stay, you'll be camping so bring your own tent and gear and mosquito spray).

If you can't ship these items or go there in person, then go to VFPRoadTrips.org and make an immediate donation through PayPal. Camp Casey-Covington will have immediate access to this cash and can buy the items themselves from stores that are open in Louisiana (all donations to Veterans for Peace, are tax deductible).

Each day I will post up-to-the minute information as to what is needed and the progress Camp Casey is making. Please visit MichaelMoore.com often and do what you can to help.

Many other groups are also doing good work. MoveOn.org has set up a system for people to offer rooms in their homes to the survivors.

There is no time to waste. People are suffering and dying. Each of us can do something. There is no other alternative.

Thank you in advance for your help. Tomorrow, we will take care of the other work we need to do about the ideologically hamstrung incompetents in charge.

Yours,
Michael Moore

He's still alive?! :confused:

I'm holding Emporer Titus responsible for the destruction of Pompeii and Herculaneum.


But on a serious note: any help is good. Even if it is run by "self-satisfied lunatics", to quote Mr. Moore.

I'll bet Michael Moore pinches those "LARGE cans of veggies" for himself.
I don't see what your point is, Michael Moore is struggling to remain culturally relevant, as is Cindy Sheehan, and they have decided to join everyone else by latching onto the relief effort.
I do like how he slides the typical "OMFG EV1L NAZ1 BU5H D1D I7!!!1!!shift+1!!!" jab in there. Nice and smooth, and for three whole seconds I almost missed it.
And then the other jabs at anyone other than he, Porky God Almighty Michael Moore, that might think that they could really help, but actually can't help because they aren't Michael Moore.

What if it's help rendered late and inadequate?

I'm no Bush fan, but Moore is full of shit. This is NOT due to four (or even five!) years of "Bush mismanagement". This is due to corrupt local government and to 28 YEARS of the Federal government neglecting to do a bloody thing about the use of the wetlands for building (thereby removing a natural method of drainage from the area) the dredging of the Mississippi Delta (again, removing natural protection from the area) and not improving the levees.

Unless Bush had a time machine, there are other presidents, Republican AND Democrat, just as guilty for this national tragedy. It is absolutely disgusting, but certainly not unexpected, for this opportunistic creep to use this catastrophe as spin for his "crucify Bush" campaign. There are plenty of REAL cases of Bush's incompetence to spotlight without manufacturing some.

So when d'ya think his top-grossing mockumentary is due out?

What if it's help rendered late and inadequate?

It's still an improvement to none at all.

I'll bet Michael Moore pinches those "LARGE cans of veggies" for himself.
I don't see what your point is, Michael Moore is struggling to remain culturally relevant, as is Cindy Sheehan, and they have decided to join everyone else by latching onto the relief effort.
I do like how he slides the typical "OMFG EV1L NAZ1 BU5H D1D I7!!!1!!shift+1!!!" jab in there. Nice and smooth, and for three whole seconds I almost missed it.
And then the other jabs at anyone other than he, Porky God Almighty Michael Moore, that might think that they could really help, but actually can't help because they aren't Michael Moore.

You handled that very intelligently, well done. Who needs points, counter-arguments, or level-headedness when you can just shoot fat jokes off at the hip and pretend like that makes racist national policies okay.

*Stands opposite Mr Moore*

*Throws pork pie in path of incoming bus*

*Cackles at result*

More seriously, does this guy listen to himself? Hmm? With, like, any of kind of, I dunno, OBJECTIVITY? ideologically hamstrung incompetents hmm? Really? Like, I dunno, some wannabe political comedian making interminably boring films that can be basically summed up as "BU$H SUXXORZ?" Please. For heavens sake.

What happened in New Orleans was godawful, and certainly, if you have some clout use it to drum up support. But scoring cheap political points is just crass, man. No style. I mean, hell, Bush may have the brains of a pigeon and the political viewpoint of a concussed pekingese but for heavens sake, HE WAS ELECTED, MORON. As were all the public officials that 'caused' the disaster. What are you saying, Mr Moore? Only left-wing intellectuals should be permitted to vote? Because, uh, I dunno, but that isn't a democracy. Thats a Mooreocracy.

Sometimes I wonder if maybe Michael Moore should be a comedian instead, because that made me laugh. XD The guy just does not know what he is talking about. He sounds like he thinks Bush conjured the hurricane to see what would happen or something. :rolleyes:

Michael Moore is a repugnant asshole, and anyone who cites him should be ashamed of themselves.

You handled that very intelligently, well done. Who needs points, counter-arguments, or level-headedness when you can just shoot fat jokes off at the hip and pretend like that makes racist national policies okay.
So two jokes mean that that is all I said? What if I'd made one fat joke, would that have been to much? Would simply saying his name have been too many fat jokes? Is my mere existance a fat joke directed at Michael Moore?
Methinks thine standards are rather low.
Further, where wasn't I level headed? I'm always calm and cheerful, except when important topics like lawns and sandwiches come up.
Finally, I made a point. This is merely grandstanding so that he can argue against Bush, and then have people talk about how wonderful he is when his next craptastical documentary is released.

PS: What racist national policies? Is there some law that says that "All Black people must stay in Hurricane zones because the only thing that can sate the bloodlust of our lord Posiedon is the lives of a few hundred Niggers"?

Do you happen to have a source for this?

You handled that very intelligently, well done. Who needs points, counter-arguments, or level-headedness when you can just shoot fat jokes off at the hip and pretend like that makes racist national policies okay.

I don't like Moore. He goes to different countries and kisses their asses, while badmouthing us at the same time. In case you wondered why, it's so that he can market his film/pretend-documentaries/books overseas by gaining popularity. Some people still like ass-kissers.

I almost gained some respect for him, before I realized that he's doing this in his own self-interests (even plugged his website, couldn't miss that), and he can't put politics aside in ANYTHING, making a joke of himself to anyone with sense enough to see his underlying intentions.

Do you happen to have a source for this?


Certainly.

Michael Moore. (http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/message/index.php?messageDate=2005-09-07)

Sometimes I wonder if maybe Michael Moore should be a comedian instead, because that made me laugh. XD The guy just does not know what he is talking about. He sounds like he thinks Bush conjured the hurricane to see what would happen or something. :rolleyes:
Bush didn't conjure the hurricane, as I have already stated on one of these hurricane threads, Bush was the hurricane. He ran through NO, kicking buildings over, and then he personally knocked the levees over. Then, when that failed to cause enough destruction for his Nazi tastes, he personally dumped buckets full of water in the city.
Katrina was just a cover-up, don't believe the lies!

This tragedy lies square on shoulders of the Mayor, and Governor. Bush no matter what you think of him, can't "force" cities to evacuate, or stop looting, nor a mass of police officers from walking off the job. The President pleaded with the Governor to evacuate the area, she refused, the mayor didn't think he had the power to do so (though the "official" evacuation plan states doing just that) Anyone who has ever survived, a natural disaster either flooding, earthquake, or hurricane, knows it takes FEMA about 3 days to respond. That is how long it takes to gear up. The local, and state governments are the first responders. This really makes me think of my own local governments. (Are they ready) Until we have had time to really think about what went right, and what went wrong, we need to concentrate on those who are still trapped(not those refusing to go). Then after all the smoke is cleared there will be plenty of blame to go around. I want to conclude by asking is your State/City ready?

However you feel about the outcome of the 2004 elections you have to agree that the spontaneous combustion of this guy's political career was a plus point. If Kerry'd won we'd never have heard the end of him, claiming that his (rather light) documentary changed the world.

PS: What racist national policies? Is there some law that says that "All Black people must stay in Hurricane zones because the only thing that can sate the bloodlust of our lord Posiedon is the lives of a few hundred Niggers"?

Actually, yes, I believe Bush told Congress to enact MODEL PENAL CODE Section 73.4 (2)(b) stating: "In the event of a huricane...all coloreds, hereby referred to as 'African Americans', must be detained in said area, preferably in close vicinity to the point where said huricane first touches ground. (c) All State and Government Agencies are hereby authorized to use 'African Americans' as flood barriers in the event that sandbags cannot be found."

Such was decreed by Lord Bush. Hail, Supreme Lord Bush!

Let's see what the Rev. has to say
Mr Moore is a servant of Satan and nothing more!.

Actually, yes, I believe Bush told Congress to enact MODEL PENAL CODE Section 73.4 (2)(b) stating: "In the event of a huricane...all coloreds, hereby referred to as 'African Americans', must be detained in said area, preferably in close vicinity to the point where said huricane first touches ground. (c) All State and Government Agencies are hereby authorized to use 'African Americans' as flood barriers in the event that sandbags cannot be found."

Such was decreed by Lord Bush. Hail, Supreme Lord Bush!Source?

Who's this Reverend Ellis?

Source?


Ummmm...I think this was sarcasm.

Ummmm...I think this was sarcasm.
Bah! It must've come from somewhere, sarcastic or not! XD

PS. I might have been being sarcastic as well. I'm not quite sure how my own brain works at times.

Source?
The real world, look out the window and you should be able to find it.

Source?

.......

You're joking right?

Who's this Reverend Ellis?
A lunatic.

.......

You're joking right?Quite.

A lunatic.

Elaborate!

Lunatics come in many shapes and sizes.

Lunatic Goofballs, for example...

Quite.

I thought it was funny at first, until I realize that there are people who might be serious...

Had me worried.

Bah! It must've come from somewhere, sarcastic or not! XD

It came from the arse that is called my head.

I'm no Bush fan, but Moore is full of shit. This is NOT due to four (or even five!) years of "Bush mismanagement". This is due to corrupt local government and to 28 YEARS of the Federal government neglecting to do a bloody thing about the use of the wetlands for building (thereby removing a natural method of drainage from the area) the dredging of the Mississippi Delta (again, removing natural protection from the area) and not improving the levees.

Unless Bush had a time machine, there are other presidents, Republican AND Democrat, just as guilty for this national tragedy. It is absolutely disgusting, but certainly not unexpected, for this opportunistic creep to use this catastrophe as spin for his "crucify Bush" campaign. There are plenty of REAL cases of Bush's incompetence to spotlight without manufacturing some.

So when d'ya think his top-grossing mockumentary is due out?


very well said...not much i can add to that!

my brother lost his home there last week,a die hard liberal and so is his wife...but he has been telling me about the neglect by the fed's with regards to the levees and over building of the marshes and so on for 15 years.
he knew it was a matter of time,as did most there...democrats and repub's included.
but when you build yor life and have roots it is hard to walk away from your home..which is why so many stayed.
not to mention it is 1 fun ass town to hang out in(in the right areas)

it is not bush's fault(whom i despise and think is a twit)but a list of people for the past 20 years...bush included for posting his idiot friends college roommate to head fema.

by the way..i talked to him finally the other day and he and his family are safe in texas...woohoo

very well said...not much i can add to that!

my brother lost his home there last week,a die hard liberal and so is his wife...but he has been telling me about the neglect by the fed's with regards to the levees and over building of the marshes and so on for 15 years.
he knew it was a matter of time,as did most there...democrats and repub's included.
but when you build yor life and have roots it is hard to walk away from your home..which is why so many stayed.
not to mention it is 1 fun ass town to hang out in(in the right areas)

it is not bush's fault(whom i despise and think is a twit)but a list of people for the past 20 years...bush included for posting his idiot friends college roommate to head fema.

by the way..i talked to him finally the other day and he and his family are safe in texas...woohoo


It was well said and valid too, but can you imagine the outcry if this had happened while Clinton was in office?

It was well said and valid too, but can you imagine the outcry if this had happened while Clinton was in office?

Not really, I'd imagine it would be much less. Clinton, IMHO, was FAR less polarizing than the present administration.

Not really, I'd imagine it would be much less. Clinton, IMHO, was FAR less polarizing than the present administration.
He was indeed.

Back off people. It's something. What the fuck are you doing? Unless you're out there shipping food to the dying then sit the hell down and shut up.

Michael Moore can go suck Osama's dick.
After seeing that assholes name I did not read any of the posts and posted.

That aside, do what you can to help those in need.

Back off people. It's something. What the fuck are you doing? Unless you're out there shipping food to the dying then sit the hell down and shut up.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You suck the Big Moore's kak!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/ArticleNews/TPStory/LAC/20050907/STORMFEMA07/TPInternational/?query=emergency+agency

Critics charge Bush political patronage, focus on terror hurt FEMA's effectiveness

By ALAN FREEMAN

Wednesday, September 7, 2005 Page A17

WASHINGTON -- Michael Lindell knew things were going downhill at the Federal Emergency Management Agency when President George W. Bush appointed Joe Allbaugh as head of the U.S. federal agency responsible for disaster management in 2001.

"It was a political patronage job" for Mr. Allbaugh, who had no experience in emergency management but had been Mr. Bush's chief of staff when he was governor of Texas, said Mr. Lindell, senior scholar at Texas A&M University's Hazard Reduction and Recovery Center.

Soon afterward, Mr. Allbaugh hired his former college roommate, Republican lawyer Michael Brown, to be FEMA's general counsel. His experience in organizing the response to hurricanes and earthquakes? He ran the International Arabian Horse Association, a breeders' group that organized horse shows.

Mr. Brown, who succeeded Mr. Allbaugh at FEMA in 2003, now finds himself at the centre of a storm of controversy over Washington's slow response to hurricane Katrina's devastating impact on New Orleans.

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"Every official at the Federal Emergency Management Agency should be fired, Director Michael Brown especially," said The Times-Picayune, the leading New Orleans newspaper, in an open letter to Mr. Bush published on Sunday.

Critics allege that the Bush administration has undermined the effectiveness of the agency by turning it into a second-rate department run by political hacks.

"I think it's clear that they did drop the ball," said Susan Cutter, a professor of geography and director at the Hazards Research Lab at the University of South Carolina. "FEMA should have come in much, much sooner. . . . There is something wrong with emergency management that needs to be fixed."

Mr. Lindell said that unlike an earthquake or a terrorist attack, which arrives without warning, hurricane forecasters predicted at least 24 hours before landfall that Katrina was going to pack a devastating punch.

Anticipating Katrina's impact, Mr. Bush declared a state of emergency in Louisiana on Sunday, a day before the storm hit. "Then, there was a black hole for five days. I don't understand it," Mr. Lindell said, noting that until last Friday, the federal response seemed scattered and unfocused.

Prof. Cutter said the problem is that FEMA, which used to have cabinet-level representation, was downgraded when it was forced to merge with the Department of Homeland Security. The emphasis was placed on responding to terrorism at the expense of natural disasters.

"They gave FEMA a backwater position," said Michael Greenberger, director of the Center for Health and Homeland Security at the University of Maryland. "They didn't think it was important."

As for Mr. Brown, 50, his light has not exactly shone in the harsh atmosphere of post-Katrina New Orleans. On CNN last Thursday, he admitted he had been unaware that thousands of storm victims were marooned in horrific conditions at the convention centre.

Mr. Brown's performance has been harshly criticized even by Bush loyalist Senator Trent Lott, who lost his own coastal home in Pascagoula, Miss., in the hurricane. "If he doesn't solve a couple of problems that we've got right now he ain't going to be able to hold the job, because what I'm going to do to him ain't going to be pretty."

Mr. Bush has been loyal to Mr. Brown, an Oklahoma Republican, declaring on Friday during a visit to the hurricane-hit region, "Brownie, you're doing a heck of a job."

Although FEMA owns no helicopters and no trucks, it is at the heart of the response to Katrina, co-ordinating the response to the disaster with local and state authorities. FEMA is spending about $750-million (U.S.) a day on disaster relief. Estimates are that the recovery and relief operations could end up costing more than $150-billion.

The U.S. government's involvement in disaster relief co-ordination began in the early 19th century when Congress passed an act providing assistance to a New Hampshire town that had been hit by a catastrophic fire.

Over the next century, ad hoc legislation was passed more than 100 times in response to earthquakes, hurricanes, floods and other disasters. The federal involvement became more institutionalized in the 1930s, but it was only a series of disasters in the 1960s and 1970s, including hurricane Camille's ravaging of the Gulf Coast in 1969, that prompted the creation of FEMA in 1979 as a central agency responsible for federal response to disasters.

After criticism of the handling of hurricane Andrew, which ravaged southern Florida in 1992, then-president Bill Clinton named a professional emergency manager, James Witt, to run the agency. But Mr. Witt was shunted aside after Mr. Bush was elected President. The agency has an annual budget of $5-billion.

Back off people. It's something. What the fuck are you doing? Unless you're out there shipping food to the dying then sit the hell down and shut up.

Well I'd like to ask you to shut up. I've sent £10.00 to the British Red Cross. It will hardly solve the problems but if we all did it, a lot of suffering would be stopped. At least Michael Moore is doing something.

I'm no Bush fan, but Moore is full of shit. This is NOT due to four (or even five!) years of "Bush mismanagement". This is due to corrupt local government and to 28 YEARS of the Federal government neglecting to do a bloody thing about the use of the wetlands for building (thereby removing a natural method of drainage from the area) the dredging of the Mississippi Delta (again, removing natural protection from the area) and not improving the levees.

Unless Bush had a time machine, there are other presidents, Republican AND Democrat, just as guilty for this national tragedy. It is absolutely disgusting, but certainly not unexpected, for this opportunistic creep to use this catastrophe as spin for his "crucify Bush" campaign. There are plenty of REAL cases of Bush's incompetence to spotlight without manufacturing some.

So when d'ya think his top-grossing mockumentary is due out?

Well, I was watching NOW (the PBS show, not the feminist organization) the other day, and I have to say, while the problem was bigger than Bush, Bush was a horrendously large part of it. Bush cut the funding for the projects designed to shore up Lousisiana by 50 to 90% (that's not the spread on the guess, but the actual numbers by which he cut various projects). And there was interviews from 2002 with people working on these projects saying things like "I realize that the war on terror is important, but a natural disaster can cause just as much, if not more, damage than a man-made one."

If Bush wasn't so devoted to his pet war in Iraq then the funding might have been there to help minimize the damage of this Hurricaine. If Bush knew WTF the National Guard was for, not dodging the draft or conquering foreign nations, he might have left it here to help the people of Lousisiana. Sure Rummy says that our military is capable of doing two things at once, but it's doing neither one satisfactoraly. Iraq and Katrina are both disasters, and Bush bears a huge amount of blame for both.

BTW, after consulting my Conservative -> English phrasebook the term
"I'm not going to get started playing the Blame Game," means "We haven't found a convincing way to blame the Democrats yet, but Rove is working on it."

Elaborate!

Lunatics come in many shapes and sizes.

Lunatic Goofballs, for example...
My alter ego.

The way I see it, giving is one thing, but giving and throwing your own political spin on it is taking advantage of the suffering of the people your pretending to care about. You wanna help the victims? Donate to the Red Cross. Just goes to show the caliber of Moore to be doing something like this. If he had been a bigger man (shouldn't have been THAT difficult), then he would have just urged people to donate to the Red Cross, and not try to throw his spin on it. There is no excuse for his actions.

Micheal Moore should be down in NO right now, doing the job he is most suited to: using his enormously fat whale blubber body to plug one of the holes in failed levys.

Fuck the sandbags, the army corp. of engineers should have just dropped him in the breech.

I like Mikeal Moore

Amazing how the Brush-huggers cannot avoid commenting on Moore without slagging off his fatness. So no fat people should run America?

Micheal Moore should be down in NO right now, doing the job he is most suited to: using his enormously fat whale blubber body to plug one of the holes in failed levys.

Fuck the sandbags, the army corp. of engineers should have just dropped him in the breech.


Most...Hilarious...Mental...Picture...EVAR!

[BTW, after consulting my Conservative -> English phrasebook the term
"I'm not going to get started playing the Blame Game," means "We haven't found a convincing way to blame the Democrats yet, but Rove is working on it."[/QUOTE]

i couldnt agree more with you as well.

they are too blame for the pathetic response also...

as are all the pol's for ignoring real problems while slashing the budget for ALL of there pet projects and pork barrel b.s. :mp5:

Well I'd like to ask you to shut up. I've sent £10.00 to the British Red Cross. It will hardly solve the problems but if we all did it, a lot of suffering would be stopped. At least Michael Moore is doing something.
Good for you. For the record I donated $150 and placed a donation box and candy machine in my family's boutique. But since the point of my post isn't who's doing what, I'll stop there. Because what I'm saying is people need to shut up about politics when it comes to things like emergency aid.

[QUOTE=Katganistan] This is due to corrupt local government and to 28 YEARS of the Federal government neglecting to do a bloody thing about the use of the wetlands for building (thereby removing a natural method of drainage from the area)

You've got to be kidding me? Are you really foolish enough to think that afew wetlands, slightly bigger dirks, and a less industrialised delta would have stopped Wet Orleans? There isn't a practicable man made or natural barrier that could have possibly prevented Orleans from drowning. Admitedly it might have drowned slightly less but the end result would mostly have been the same.

Back off people. It's something. What the fuck are you doing? Unless you're out there shipping food to the dying then sit the hell down and shut up.

Um, no. You've no right to demand people "sit the hell down and shut the fuck up" because you don't like what they are saying. Stop attacking others, and don't make any assumptions about what we have and have not done.

Do we even have a figure on the number of casualties yet?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You suck the Big Moore's kak!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Knock it off NOW.

Knock it off NOW.

Kat, your sig is really creepy...

Amazing how the Brush-huggers cannot avoid commenting on Moore without slagging off his fatness. So no fat people should run America?


I did not, and would not, consider making comments about his physical appearance. His opportunism and circling this tragedy like a vulture feeding on the suffering of the people of the Gulf Coast, however, I will.

I'm no Bush fan, but Moore is full of shit. This is NOT due to four (or even five!) years of "Bush mismanagement". This is due to corrupt local government and to 28 YEARS of the Federal government neglecting to do a bloody thing about the use of the wetlands for building (thereby removing a natural method of drainage from the area) the dredging of the Mississippi Delta (again, removing natural protection from the area) and not improving the levees.

Unless Bush had a time machine, there are other presidents, Republican AND Democrat, just as guilty for this national tragedy. It is absolutely disgusting, but certainly not unexpected, for this opportunistic creep to use this catastrophe as spin for his "crucify Bush" campaign. There are plenty of REAL cases of Bush's incompetence to spotlight without manufacturing some.

So when d'ya think his top-grossing mockumentary is due out?
i would have to go with katganistan on all of this except how far back it goes new orleans after all is much older then 28 years plus if we are going to start pointing finguers lets also point it at the big corperate leaders and the educaters who basicaly continue to influence discriminitory methods of teaching that keep the poor poor making them live in shaby housing in highly distructibly areas and conditions because they can barly make enough to live i want all of you to pick up a history book and try to find anything concerning the development of a class cast system in this country that is discribed in the last 50 years to be leanient. you will find not a one that will blame the methods of society but rather the victums for being poor go ahead and just try and prove me wrong i dare you

Kat, your sig is really creepy...

Is it? Then I've succeeded! :D

On 25th May, Grover Norquist told National Public Radio's Mara Liasson, "I don't want to abolish government. I simply want to reduce it to the size where I can drag it into the bathroom and drown it in the bathtub." As incompetent as George W. Bush has been in his response to the disaster in New Orleans, he wasn't the one who began the process that inevitably led to that disaster spiralling out of control.
That was Ronald Reagan. It was Reagan who said: "The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.'"
Reagan, like Senor Brush after him, failed to understand that when people come together into community, and then into nationhood, that they organize themselves to protect themselves from predators, both human and corporate, both domestic and foreign. This form of organisation is called government.
But the Reagan/Bush ideologues don't "believe" in government, in anything other than a military and police capacity. Government should punish, they agree, but it should never nurture, protect, or defend individuals. Nurturing and protecting, they suggest, is the more appropriate role of religious institutions, private charities, families, and - perhaps most important - corporations.
Let corporations handle your old-age pension. Let the corporations decide how much protection we and our environment need from their toxics. Let the corporations decide what we're paid. Let the corporations decide what doctor we can see, when, and for what purpose.
As Reagan said: "The best minds are not in government. If any were, business would hire them away."
This attitude, that the only purpose for service in government is to set up the interests of business may account for why not a single military-eligible member of the Bush or Cheney families has enlisted in their parents' ‘Noble Cause’, whereas all four sons of Franklin Roosevelt joined and each was decorated - on merit - for bravery in the deadly conflict of World War II. As did the Kennedy brothers.
It also shouldn't surprise us that although Dick Cheney has stayed on holiday in Wyoming through all of this, his company, Halliburton, has already obtained a $multi-million contract to profit from Hurricane Katrina's cleanup.

It's not that these conservatives are incompetent or stupid. When their interests are at stake, they can be very efficient. Consider when Hurricane Charley hit Jeb Bush's state, a year earlier than Katrina, on the second weekend of August, 2004, just months before the elections. The White House website notes:

’As of noon Monday [the day after the hurricane left], in response to Hurricane Frances, FEMA and other Federal response agencies have taken the following actions:
About one hundred trucks of water and 280 trucks of ice are present or will arrive in the Jacksonville staging area today. 900,000 Meals-Ready-to-Eat are on site in Jacksonville, ready to be distributed.
Over 7,000 cases of food (e.g., vegetables, fruits, cheese, ham, and turkey) are scheduled to arrive in Winter Haven today. Disaster Medical Assistance Teams (DMAT) are on the ground and setting up comfort stations. FEMA community relations personnel will coordinate with DMATs to assist victims. -- Urban Search and Rescue Teams are completing reconnaissance missions in coordination with state officials.
FEMA is coordinating with the Department of Energy and the state to ensure that necessary fuel supplies can be distributed throughout the state, with a special focus on hospitals and other emergency facilities that are running on generators.
The Army Corps of Engineers will soon begin its efforts to provide tarps to tens of thousands of owners of homes and buildings that have seen damage to their roofs.
The National Guard has called up 4,100 troops in Florida, as well as thousands in other nearby states to assist in the distribution of supplies and in preparation for any flooding.
The Departments of Health and Human Services, Veterans Affairs, and Defense together have organized 300 medical personnel to be on standby. Medical personnel will begin deployment to Florida tomorrow.
FEMA is coordinating public information messages with Georgia, Tennessee, Alabama, and North Carolina so that evacuees from Florida can be informed when it is safe to return. -- In addition to federal personnel already in place to respond to Hurricane Charley, 1,000 additional community relations personnel are being deployed to Atlanta for training and further assignment in Florida.’

All of this aid was vitally important to Bush family political fortunes in the upcoming election of 2004. Disaster relief checks were in the mail within a week. In just the first thirteen days after Hurricane Charley hit Florida, the White House web site notes that the Bush administration had succeeded in:

’Registering approximately 136,000 assistance applicants
Approving over 13,500 applications for more than $59 million in housing assistance
Establishing 12 disaster recovery centers, which have assisted nearly 19,000 disaster victims
Deploying medical teams that have seen nearly 3,000 patients
Disbursing 1.2 million liters of water, 8.1 million pounds of ice, and 2 million meals and snacks
Delivering over 20,000 rolls of plastic sheeting and nearly 170 generators
Treating more than 2,900 individuals through FEMA Disaster Medical Assistance Teams, supporting damaged hospitals’

That, of course, was for a Republican State, with a Republican governor, the crony brother of the President. Republicans needed to act like they cared about governing, because they wanted people to vote for them three months later.
But now, with no election looming and with death stalking a Democratic State with a Democratic Governor unrelated to the President, we once again see the Reagan philosophy held aloft. Brush's call to action? ‘Send cash to the Red Cross.’ One of those "thousand points of light" non-governmental organisations his father told us about.

As Brian Gurney, a listener from California, noted: ‘You can't govern if you don't believe in government. ‘But you sure can make a buck, and take care of your brother, your campaign manager, and your vice president's company.’

Do we even have a figure on the number of casualties yet?

FEMA has ordered 25,000 body bags. So I would guess over a thousand.

For anyone wanting to help the suffering people of New Orleans, here is some advice.

Wednesday, September 7th, 2005
Here's How You Can Make an Immediate Difference in Louisiana ...a message from Michael Moore

Friends,

<snip>

Yours,
Michael Moore
You are quoting Michael Moore? HAHAHA.
Sad.
I hear there might be some land for sale in Atlantis.

[QUOTE=Katganistan] This is due to corrupt local government and to 28 YEARS of the Federal government neglecting to do a bloody thing about the use of the wetlands for building (thereby removing a natural method of drainage from the area)

You've got to be kidding me? Are you really foolish enough to think that afew wetlands, slightly bigger dirks, and a less industrialised delta would have stopped Wet Orleans? There isn't a practicable man made or natural barrier that could have possibly prevented Orleans from drowning. Admitedly it might have drowned slightly less but the end result would mostly have been the same.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&ct=res&cd=5&url=http%3A//sciencepolicy.colorado.edu/homepages/roger_pielke/camille/&ei=b7cfQ8S6LYfA-QH9uI3JDA

Year Name Location & Cat Damage 1995 Pop Pop Change Damage Direct Counties
1969 Camille MS/LA-5 1,421 230 1.32 10,965 (LA) Plaquemines, (MS) Hancock, Harrison

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurricane_Katrina
"It's important to recognize the lack of planning by the city and state despite their own admission that they had complained to the Federal government that levee's needed to be upgraded. As reported in the local paper on July 24, the Mayor, Ray Nagin, was working on a presentation letting the city's citizens know that should a major hurricane come their way that they would be left on their own. Conservative estimates of the death toll place it at 4,000, while Mayor Ray Nagin of New Orleans believes the total number of deaths will exceed 11,000. Furthermore, more than a million people are known to have been displaced — a humanitarian crisis on a scale unseen in the U.S. since the Great Depression."

Katrina was a Cat 4 when it hit -- less strong. So.... why did it cause more death and destruction?

On 25th May, Grover Norquist told National Public Radio's Mara Liasson, "I don't want to abolish government. I simply want to reduce it to the size where I can drag it into the bathroom and drown it in the bathtub." As incompetent as George W. Bush has been in his response to the disaster in New Orleans, he wasn't the one who began the process that inevitably led to that disaster spiralling out of control.
That was Ronald Reagan. It was Reagan who said: "The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.'"
Reagan, like Senor Brush after him, failed to understand that when people come together into community, and then into nationhood, that they organize themselves to protect themselves from predators, both human and corporate, both domestic and foreign. This form of organisation is called government.
But the Reagan/Bush ideologues don't "believe" in government, in anything other than a military and police capacity. Government should punish, they agree, but it should never nurture, protect, or defend individuals. Nurturing and protecting, they suggest, is the more appropriate role of religious institutions, private charities, families, and - perhaps most important - corporations.
Let corporations handle your old-age pension. Let the corporations decide how much protection we and our environment need from their toxics. Let the corporations decide what we're paid. Let the corporations decide what doctor we can see, when, and for what purpose.
As Reagan said: "The best minds are not in government. If any were, business would hire them away."
This attitude, that the only purpose for service in government is to set up the interests of business may account for why not a single military-eligible member of the Bush or Cheney families has enlisted in their parents' ‘Noble Cause’, whereas all four sons of Franklin Roosevelt joined and each was decorated - on merit - for bravery in the deadly conflict of World War II. As did the Kennedy brothers.
It also shouldn't surprise us that although Dick Cheney has stayed on holiday in Wyoming through all of this, his company, Halliburton, has already obtained a $multi-million contract to profit from Hurricane Katrina's cleanup.

It's not that these conservatives are incompetent or stupid. When their interests are at stake, they can be very efficient. Consider when Hurricane Charley hit Jeb Bush's state, a year earlier than Katrina, on the second weekend of August, 2004, just months before the elections. The White House website notes:

’As of noon Monday [the day after the hurricane left], in response to Hurricane Frances, FEMA and other Federal response agencies have taken the following actions:
About one hundred trucks of water and 280 trucks of ice are present or will arrive in the Jacksonville staging area today. 900,000 Meals-Ready-to-Eat are on site in Jacksonville, ready to be distributed.
Over 7,000 cases of food (e.g., vegetables, fruits, cheese, ham, and turkey) are scheduled to arrive in Winter Haven today. Disaster Medical Assistance Teams (DMAT) are on the ground and setting up comfort stations. FEMA community relations personnel will coordinate with DMATs to assist victims. -- Urban Search and Rescue Teams are completing reconnaissance missions in coordination with state officials.
FEMA is coordinating with the Department of Energy and the state to ensure that necessary fuel supplies can be distributed throughout the state, with a special focus on hospitals and other emergency facilities that are running on generators.
The Army Corps of Engineers will soon begin its efforts to provide tarps to tens of thousands of owners of homes and buildings that have seen damage to their roofs.
The National Guard has called up 4,100 troops in Florida, as well as thousands in other nearby states to assist in the distribution of supplies and in preparation for any flooding.
The Departments of Health and Human Services, Veterans Affairs, and Defense together have organized 300 medical personnel to be on standby. Medical personnel will begin deployment to Florida tomorrow.
FEMA is coordinating public information messages with Georgia, Tennessee, Alabama, and North Carolina so that evacuees from Florida can be informed when it is safe to return. -- In addition to federal personnel already in place to respond to Hurricane Charley, 1,000 additional community relations personnel are being deployed to Atlanta for training and further assignment in Florida.’

All of this aid was vitally important to Bush family political fortunes in the upcoming election of 2004. Disaster relief checks were in the mail within a week. In just the first thirteen days after Hurricane Charley hit Florida, the White House web site notes that the Bush administration had succeeded in:

’Registering approximately 136,000 assistance applicants
Approving over 13,500 applications for more than $59 million in housing assistance
Establishing 12 disaster recovery centers, which have assisted nearly 19,000 disaster victims
Deploying medical teams that have seen nearly 3,000 patients
Disbursing 1.2 million liters of water, 8.1 million pounds of ice, and 2 million meals and snacks
Delivering over 20,000 rolls of plastic sheeting and nearly 170 generators
Treating more than 2,900 individuals through FEMA Disaster Medical Assistance Teams, supporting damaged hospitals’

That, of course, was for a Republican State, with a Republican governor, the crony brother of the President. Republicans needed to act like they cared about governing, because they wanted people to vote for them three months later.
But now, with no election looming and with death stalking a Democratic State with a Democratic Governor unrelated to the President, we once again see the Reagan philosophy held aloft. Brush's call to action? ‘Send cash to the Red Cross.’ One of those "thousand points of light" non-governmental organisations his father told us about.

As Brian Gurney, a listener from California, noted: ‘You can't govern if you don't believe in government. ‘But you sure can make a buck, and take care of your brother, your campaign manager, and your vice president's company.’

And just because Jeb is the governor, that makes Florida more of a priority?? Are you stupid or just acting? Frances my not have hit as hard as Katrina, but the damage was there. It was NOT cute. Suure, since you probably belong to a place where no hurricanes come close, it seems that way, but I DO, YOU ASSHOLE. Hurricanes are worse than your worst nightmare, and many people i know almost died in Frances, INCLUDING my family. So, before you start saying such things, think for a second, and realize that no matter the place, we all are americans, and even if Bush's brother is governor, that does not make Florida a priority.

Grow up.

You know what I hate though? I hate it when people claim that this is all somehow Bush's fault. I mean, maybe Bush could've done more, but what about the liberal mayor of NO that decided that even though they had hundreds of school busses lined up, and drivers offering to drive people out, that they should wait for the greyhounds? Or how about that same mayor deciding not to evacuate the city when they had the chance? It just seems like most liberals are avoiding this, and whether we like it or not, more people that just Bush were at fault here. There were a lot of people that could've done more.

He's still alive?! :confused:

I'm trying my best but my bullets don't seem to penetrate the blubber.

On a more serious note; has anyone else noticed that Michael Moore usually argues his point in such a way that would make a Bush supporter xenophobic to any real debate on the subject?

All he's done in the past by argueing his point with such bias, is decrease the number of people that are likely to respond to his own charity appeal.

Michael Moore, if you told him of this, probably wouldn't care because he wouldn't want the support of those people. He's as much a fascist as Bush in my book........... ok, maybe I wouldn't go that far, but shame on Michael Moore for is detrimental work in educating poeple.

And just because Jeb is the governor, that makes Florida more of a priority?? Are you stupid or just acting? Frances my not have hit as hard as Katrina, but the damage was there. It was NOT cute. Suure, since you probably belong to a place where no hurricanes come close, it seems that way, but I DO, YOU ASSHOLE. Hurricanes are worse than your worst nightmare, and many people i know almost died in Frances, INCLUDING my family. So, before you start saying such things, think for a second, and realize that no matter the place, we all are americans, and even if Bush's brother is governor, that does not make Florida a priority.

Grow up.

I suggest you heed your own advice, and stop flaming others.

If we are going to start pointing finguers lets also point it at the big corperate leaders and the educaters who basicaly continue to influence discriminitory methods of teaching that keep the poor poor making them live in shaby housing in highly distructibly areas and conditions because they can barly make enough to live. No child left behind does not work. We need to higher undiscriminitory teachers that will find better ways to educate the poor and make them not feel at fault. It has been proven that when you show them that it is all bassed on society they tend to do better, and put forth more effort because now they feel that they have a misson to counter the discrimination.

Yours,
Michael Moore
Before this, I had zero respect for the distinctly less than honorable Ms. Sheehan. Now I have even less. :(

Before this, I had zero respect for the distinctly less than honorable Ms. Sheehan. Now I have even less. :(
Is that possible to have negative respect? Goddamn.

Before this, I had zero respect for the distinctly less than honorable Ms. Sheehan. Now I have even less. :(
I don't suppose that she's there helping people out would happen to sway you. The glass is half-empty, eh Eut? :rolleyes:

Before this, I had zero respect for the distinctly less than honorable Ms. Sheehan. Now I have even less. :(

She lost a son in Iraq and you call her less than honourable? She campaigns and puts her life where her mouth is and you question her honour?

FEMA is run by Brushites. The top three jobs are all Brush nominated and all worked for the Brushes. FEMA is a disgrace. I am British and feel ashamed people are being treated this way, why any Americans still defend FEMA is beyond me. This has been the largest single natural calamity in US history. Brush and his junta did not cause Katrina, still less did they wish it on America, but they are responsible for its foul aftermath.


09/08/05 "ICH" ----

FEMA won't accept Amtrak's help in evacuations
http://news.ft.com/cms/s/84aa35cc-1da8-11da-b40b-00000e..

FEMA turns away experienced firefighters
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2005/9/5/105538/7048

FEMA turns back Wal-Mart supply trucks
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/05/national/nationalspec..

FEMA prevents Coast Guard from delivering diesel fuel
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/05/national/nationalspec..

FEMA won't let Red Cross deliver food
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05246/565143.stm

FEMA bars morticians from entering New Orleans
http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=15147862&BRD=...

FEMA blocks 500-boat citizen flotilla from delivering aid
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2005/9/3/171718/0826

FEMA fails to utilize Navy ship with 600-bed hospital on board
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-0509..

FEMA to Chicago: Send just one truck
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-050902dale..

FEMA turns away generators
http://www.wwltv.com/local/stories/WWLBLOG.ac3fcea.html

FEMA: "First Responders Urged Not To Respond"
http://www.fema.gov/news/newsrelease.fema?id=18470

http://www.pnionline.com/dnblog/attytood/archives/002346.html

Two Bush 2000 Florida recount aides were rewarded with top FEMA posts
reversing an eight-year crusade to rid the now-embattled Federal Emegency Management Agency of political patronage, a newly elected George W. Bush in 2001 named two key players in his Florida recount fight to important FEMA posts.

Neither man, Jacksonville attorney Reynold Hoover and Miami lawyer Mark Wallace, had any experience in emergency management before they were named by the Bush administration to FEMA, now under fire for its botched response to Hurricane Katrina.

Hoover, a longtime "explosives expert" with the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms who became a lawyer in 1996, is still with FEMA as its director of national security coordination.

Wallace left the Bush administration in 2004 to become deputy manager of the president's re-election campaign, and is now a lobbyist.

They are two more names to add to the list of political appointees and out-and-out hacks at FEMA.

Many are calling for the firing of agency chief Michael Brown, the ousted head of a horse association who was hired at FEMA in 2001 along with his college roommate, top Bush advisor Joe Allbaugh.
And it was reported yesterday that FEMA's No. 2 and No. 3 officials, Patrick Rhode and Scott Morris, are also former campaign aides.

Clinton hired a professional, James Lee Witt, to run the agency and that May Witt told a Senate Appropriations subcommittee, according to a Washington Post article, "that FEMA 'will not be doing business as usual' and that he was committed to making his organization 'one of the most respected agencies in this nation.'

Did he succeed? Here's what the Atlanta Journal-Constitution wrote in a January 1996 editorial:
FEMA has developed a sterling reputation for delivering disaster- relief services, a far cry from its abysmal standing before James Lee Witt took its helm in 1993.

How did Witt turn FEMA around so quickly? Well, he is the first director of the agency to have emergency-management experience.
He stopped the staffing of the agency by political patronage.
He removed layers of bureaucracy.
Most important, he instilled in the agency a spirit of preparedness, of service to the customer, of willingness to listen to ideas of local and state officials to make the system work better.

But if Clinton and Witt stopped the staffing of FEMA by political patronage, George W. Bush re-started it within days of taking the oath of office -- rewarding some of the people who'd helped him become president in the grueling 2000 Florida recount.

One of those was Wallac-- a young lawyer who, according to a July 14, 2002, article by the Miami Herald's Carol Rosenberg -- "fought on behalf of the GOP in Palm Beach County during the butterfly ballot brouhaha."
He was hired in 2001 as FEMA's general counsel and was the chief lawyer for the agency on its Sept. 11 recovery effort.
After his 2004 stint as a top official in the Bush campaign, he was hired in March as a D.C. lobbyist for a Florida-based law firm, Akerman Senterfitt.
Hoover, the former ATF agent turned attorney, was active in the Duval County GOP at the time of the Florida recount, and because a point man in the Jacksonville area.
He initially served as FEMA's chief of staff for a time, but he's currently listed on the agency's organizational chart as director of the Office of National Security Coordination.

What's more, Wallace and Hoover -- and Brown and Rhodes and Morris -- aren't the only political hires at FEMA. Indeed, the officials tasked with the response to Hurricane Katrina -- Dan Craig, the director of the recovery division -- is another.
As his bio notes, "Craig worked as a campaign advisor, and political fundraiser and research analyst" and was also a lobbyist.
At the risk of stating the obvious by this point, he did not have emergency management experience.

He was the key player in a 2004 FEMA controversy that may get some new scrutiny in light of recent events. From a May 15, 2005, Knight-Ridder article:
As Hurricane Frances made landfall 100 miles north of Miami-Dade County in September, a top official at the Federal Emergency Management Agency declared the county a major disaster area with no evidence of damage and contrary to a presidential order, federal auditors have found.

That decision allowed more than 12,000 Miami-Dade residents, many with minimal or no damage, to collect $31 million and brought unprecedented scrutiny to the federal disaster aid program...

On Sept. 5, as the storm continued its trek into central Florida, FEMA added to the declaration Miami-Dade and the other 12 counties originally requested by Gov. Jeb Bush. The decision was made by FEMA's recovery division director in Washington. The report did not name him, but Nicol D. Andrews, FEMA spokeswoman, identified him as Dan Craig.

The ruling came just two months before the 2004 presidential election, with Florida the top battleground state.

Also in 2004, up the Gulf Coast, FEMA was involved in a mock drill called Hurricane Pam, in which a hurricane with 120 mph winds topped the levies of New Orleans.
FEMA's chief representative at the drill was its regional director at the time, Ron Castleman.
"We made great progress this week in our preparedness efforts," said Ron Castleman, FEMA Regional Director. "Disaster response teams developed action plans in critical areas such as search and rescue, medical care, sheltering, temporary housing, school restoration and debris management. These plans are essential for quick response to a hurricane but will also help in other emergencies."

When the very real Hurricane Katrina struck last month, Castleman had already moved on to a job in the private sector.

Would his presence have helped? We don't know.
We can only tell you Castleman's immediate job before he became FEMA's top person in the Gulf region. He had been the chief administrative officer -- for the 2000 Bush-Cheney campaign.

*snip*

Spoils system, my friend. Been around since the time of Andrew Jackson.

And, what many people don't realize, these people appointed by the Administrations dont really run their respective departments. Most of the real work is done by the people that have made a career out of their respective branches.

I'm just curious, why did Moore only come out with this now, 8 days after New Orleans was flooded?

Spoils system, my friend. Been around since the time of Andrew Jackson.

And, what many people don't realize, these people appointed by the Administrations dont really run their respective departments. Most of the real work is done by the people that have made a career out of their respective branches.

Do the people at the top ever take responsibility in your world?

I'm just curious, why did Moore only come out with this now, 8 days after New Orleans was flooded?

http://www.michaelmoore.com/index.php

Do the people at the top ever take responsibility in your world?

Hey, thats how it is. Thats how it's been, and thats how it will be until someone changes the system.

Personally, I dont like the spoils system. But that's how it is.

Hey, thats how it is. Thats how it's been, and thats how it will be until someone changes the system.

Personally, I dont like the spoils system. But that's how it is.

Oh okay. We do nothing then.

Oh okay. We do nothing then.

To win an election, you need money. To get money, you promise people things. These things do include government positions.

This is just something you have to do if you want to get elected at a national level. Both Republicans and Democrats have participated in spoils. It's an accepted part of American Politics.

EDIT: I'm tired, and I have class tomarrow. I look forward to continuing this discussion tomarrow.

Good Night, Globes!

And just because Jeb is the governor, that makes Florida more of a priority?? Are you stupid or just acting? Frances my not have hit as hard as Katrina, but the damage was there. It was NOT cute. Suure, since you probably belong to a place where no hurricanes come close, it seems that way, but I DO, YOU ASSHOLE. Hurricanes are worse than your worst nightmare, and many people i know almost died in Frances, INCLUDING my family. So, before you start saying such things, think for a second, and realize that no matter the place, we all are americans, and even if Bush's brother is governor, that does not make Florida a priority.

Grow up.

Yes, I'm sorry to tell you, but in Bush's little world, that does make Florida a priority. You have not made a rational argument. Simply look at the figures, and you'll see that the response to Florida was significantly faster than the response to Katrina. I'm not saying that the Florida response should not have been this fast, but Katrina response should be just as fast. The feds did nothing for five days in New Orleans. In Florida, the response had started the day after the hurricane.

In response to the Michael Moore haters who've posted here, yeah, trying to make it into a blame thing at this point was a dick move. But he's got an organization, on the ground in the disaster area, working to provide some help for people. Make as many fat jokes as you want, and flame as many people who defend him as you want, but send something the people there need. As little as it mayt be persentagewise, if you send money to the red cross, they're taking some out to pay their corporate heads. If You send something people need to the front lines, they're getting it, all of it, not some CEO.

IMHO.

I love reading these forums sometimes...

In the thread about Moore bashing Bush for the disaster, half the posts were bitching about how he wasn't helping out the people in need, despite him having no obligations whatsoever to help these people.

And yet, in a thread about him asking people to help the survivors, these same people(the moore haters in general), are claiming this is just for his own advertising.

What the hell do you want? He is a private citizen, who quite often makes his money off of giving his beliefs to others. His speeches, documentaries, etc have distinct beliefs put out. Its his buisness interest to keep putting out his beliefs.

So he injected a few lines of blame into this. So what? Most celebrities don't do things for nothing. At the Live-8 concerts, even if they werent making money for the concerts, it was big publicity. This is publicity for him.

Regardless, he is helping the survivors. Bitch all you want, but him doing this is a whole lot better than him not doing anything. Its going to bring in more supplies to the survivors than probably any of you on these forums will directly and/or indirectly bring to them. I'm no fan of his, but this rabid hatred is sad.

While the actions of Sheehan's little group are certainly admirable, I question the motives. God help the person between her and a TV camera in NO - a PR opportunity for her not to be missed. Or maybe I'm just being cynical ...

By the way, anyone seen this:

http://www.redcross.org/faq/0,1096,0_682_4524,00.html#4524

But don't believe the Red Cross, those right-wing neocon freaks . . .

Yes, I'm sorry to tell you, but in Bush's little world, that does make Florida a priority. You have not made a rational argument. Simply look at the figures, and you'll see that the response to Florida was significantly faster than the response to Katrina. I'm not saying that the Florida response should not have been this fast, but Katrina response should be just as fast. The feds did nothing for five days in New Orleans. In Florida, the response had started the day after the hurricane.

In response to the Michael Moore haters who've posted here, yeah, trying to make it into a blame thing at this point was a dick move. But he's got an organization, on the ground in the disaster area, working to provide some help for people. Make as many fat jokes as you want, and flame as many people who defend him as you want, but send something the people there need. As little as it mayt be persentagewise, if you send money to the red cross, they're taking some out to pay their corporate heads. If You send something people need to the front lines, they're getting it, all of it, not some CEO.

IMHO.
These two events are vastly different in scale. The Florida hurricane was significantly less powerful, and did not flood an entire city, did not do near as much damage, and did not have the incredibly stupid outbreak of looting that NO had. I submit that much of the relief effort was hampered by relief workers having to go back and get security to perform their work - witness the shots fired at the helicopter at the SuperDome.

Antre_Travarious']Michael Moore is a repugnant asshole, and anyone who cites him should be ashamed of themselves.

Give this person profs stating what should be obvious to all by now. Michael Moore's motives should be questioned and questioned again, any time the slanderous (nay, treasonous) S.O.B. opens his fat over-fed yap.

However, even if some aid DOES get to the people of New Orleans as a result of Michael Moore's self-serving diatribe, then perhaps he may yet accomplish at least one act of worth yet in this world.

Give this person profs stating what should be obvious to all by now. Michael Moore's motives should be questioned and questioned again, any time the slanderous (nay, treasonous) S.O.B. opens his fat over-fed yap.

However, even if some aid DOES get to the people of New Orleans as a result of Michael Moore's self-serving diatribe, then perhaps he may yet accomplish at least one act of worth yet in this world.

Is that just mud-slinging? Or can you tell me why Moore is guilty of treason and slander?

Just wanted to chime and and say Moore is a worthless scumball, and I hope he gets some kind of didease they don't have a cure for. I'm going to play ~~~~~~BANNED BY MODS~~~~~~~ now.

AFAIK, MM has not funded Hezbollah in their radical Islamic terrorist activities. If he did that, then he could be viewed as a traitor. (BTW I'm a foreigner)

If Michael Moore were the only person who is pointing a finger at Bush for the lame, and tardy response of the Federal Government, I would call him a douchebag.
Unfortunately, he isnt.

Bush didnt summon the hurricane, but for his part, he did not do all he could to respond to the relief efforts that he should have.
Thats inexscusable when human lives are at stake.

No one is pointing soley at Bush, either.
The fault also lies with the corrupt local government of NO, and the State of Louisiana.

Having made the above clear, why does anyone care about the motives behind Moore, or Sheehan?
The bottom line is that they are doing what they can to help as many as they can.
Were dealing with a major American city, and most of its residents, in ruins.

No one has to like Moore for what he says, if you personally do not....dont buy his best selling books, or watch his award winning movies....thats your choice.
If you must slander him, slander him for his questionable editing techniques in his films, wich harm his own credibility...

But slandering him for helping Katrina victims, makes you an asshole.

Regardless of his motives, he is doing more than any of us, to help those in need, so hate him becuase he says things you disagree with, thats your right..

But maybe you should lay off the man, when hes doing some good.

Who fucking cares why hes doing it?

Y'Know, I really dislike Dubya and I do think hes majorly messed up on just about everything. That being said, Michael Moore isnt really any better, always blaming everything on Bush. However, he really surprised me with this. I know hes screwed but like a lot of people have already said: help from anybody is still needed help.

If Michael Moore were the only person who is pointing a finger at Bush for the lame, and tardy response of the Federal Government, I would call him a douchebag.
Unfortunately, he isnt.

Bush didnt summon the hurricane, but for his part, he did not do all he could to respond to the relief efforts that he should have.
Thats inexscusable when human lives are at stake.

No one is pointing soley at Bush, either.
The fault also lies with the corrupt local government of NO, and the State of Louisiana.

Having made the above clear, why does anyone care about the motives behind Moore, or Sheehan?
The bottom line is that they are doing what they can to help as many as they can.
Were dealing with a major American city, and most of its residents, in ruins.

No one has to like Moore for what he says, if you personally do not....dont buy his best selling books, or watch his award winning movies....thats your choice.
If you must slander him, slander him for his questionable editing techniques in his films, wich harm his own credibility...

But slandering him for helping Katrina victims, makes you an asshole.

Regardless of his motives, he is doing more than any of us, to help those in need, so hate him becuase he says things you disagree with, thats your right..

But maybe you should lay off the man, when hes doing some good.

Who fucking cares why hes doing it?
*CanuckHeaven stands and applauds in recognition of the wisdom of the above post which trumps the drivel of the mindless minions. :)

Moore is rather heavy-handed, I'll give you that, but his techniques are established propoganda-style that every country in the whole world has used for thousands of years. Villify the opponent whenever possible.

Frankly, I'm glad he keeps some grain of truth, no matter how small. His techniques may be similar to Bush, but the scale... (WMDs, Bin Laden in Iraq, etc. No truth at all.)

I'm starting to really wonder about the Red Cross, as well. I don't know how many people watch the Daily Show, but having Samuel L. Jackson decry them that publiclly is rather unsettling.

Small charities are beginning to interest me, however. My girlfriend recently was asked by a charity if they could use some of her art in a book being published to fund long-term rebuilding efforts, which probably biases me a bit, but oh-well. (It was an awesome wind dragon, anyway.)

And, as has already been said to all the Moore naysayers, he's out there, you're not, you do not have the RIGHT to dismiss him so casually.

I originally liked Michael Moore because of his TV show, these days it's because of the ubiquitous mindless attacks on him whenever his name is mentioned. Especially the fat jokes, yeah, those really make me question him... OK, so he uses gutter tactics, but what kind of attention are you going to get by coughing meekly and trying to say your piece? The government doesn't play fair, the media and corporations don't play fair, if you want to portary a different view you're only going to achieve it with shock tactics. Michael Moore doesn't exactly have the luxury of playing the "neutral journalist", and democracy is helped by anyone willing to actually debate an issue instead of swallowing the government line.

I'm fat as hell and I loathe Michael Moore.

Amazing how the Brush-huggers cannot avoid commenting on Moore without slagging off his fatness. So no fat people should run America?

Amazing how the Brush-huggers cannot avoid commenting on Moore without slagging off his fatness. So no fat people should run America?

Yes, you are exactly right.

But on a more serious note I think it is important to add the Michael Moore and Cindy Sheehan should be lined up against a wall along with any other sympathizers and shot for treason.

I can't believe that Moore has actually fooled some people to think that he actually wants to help on this issue. He does more damage to our country by his blubbering and empty protests than any amount of his donations to hurricane victims could ever fix. He is a terrorist that uses words and politcal havoc to attempt to destroy an nation instead of bombs.

Did I mention that he should be executed for treason yet?

Piekrom']i would have to go with katganistan on all of this except how far back it goes new orleans after all is much older then 28 years plus if we are going to start pointing finguers lets also point it at the big corperate leaders and the educaters who basicaly continue to influence discriminitory methods of teaching that keep the poor poor making them live in shaby housing in highly distructibly areas and conditions because they can barly make enough to live i want all of you to pick up a history book and try to find anything concerning the development of a class cast system in this country that is discribed in the last 50 years to be leanient. you will find not a one that will blame the methods of society but rather the victums for being poor go ahead and just try and prove me wrong i dare you

I just want to point out that this is not only one big sentence, but it has no capital letters or punctuation whatsoever.

If it wasn't about EDUCATION it wouldn't be nearly as big of a deal.

Yes, you are exactly right.

But on a more serious note I think it is important to add the Michael Moore and Cindy Sheehan should be lined up against a wall along with any other sympathizers and shot for treason.

I can't believe that Moore has actually fooled some people to think that he actually wants to help on this issue. He does more damage to our country by his blubbering and empty protests than any amount of his donations to hurricane victims could ever fix. He is a terrorist that uses words and politcal havoc to attempt to destroy an nation instead of bombs.

Did I mention that he should be executed for treason yet?

Well, your name is "Resurrected Fascism", so I guess that it's no surprise that you thinkt hat free speech should be answered with a bullet... Personally, I think that the concept of "treason" went out with absolute monarchies. Governments and nations only exist for the benefit of the people living in them, and as long as we have the right to disagree I don't see how criticising the government can be treasonous. To me, the greater "treason" is obeying your government when they stop following the principles your country is based on.

boy some of you people have gone way over the top and try seperating shean from morre morre is just using her like he tryied using kerry during the elections just to bash bush

I am sorry amerual but i was just to lazy to put in the punctuation.

Piekrom']I am sorry amerual but i was just to lazy to put in the punctuation.

S'ok, I agree with most of your statements, but I couldn't help but comment.


By the way, has anyone heard anything about the telethon?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/music/4210808.stm

It's not like Moore is alone in his bashing. This guy is the number one musical artist in the country. And if you are too lazy for the link:

Hip-hop star Kanye West criticised President Bush's response to Hurricane Katrina at a televised benefit concert in New York on Friday.

The show, which raised funds for relief efforts, featured Leonardo DiCaprio, Richard Gere, Glenn Close, Harry Connick Jr and Wynton Marsalis.

But West told the audience: "George Bush doesn't care about black people."

The comment went out live on the US east coast, but was cut from a taped version seen on the west coast.

West also claimed the US was not set up "to help the poor, the black people, the less well-off as slow as possible".

He appeared alongside comedian Mike Myers for a 90-second segment which began with Myers speaking of the devastation Katrina has caused to southern states of the US.

But to Myers' surprise, West departed from his script and said: "I hate the way they portray us in the media. If you see a black family, it says they're looting. See a white family, it says they're looking for food."

Cut off

He conceded "the Red Cross is doing everything they can", but said authorities were deliberately holding up getting aid to the Gulf coast.

West was cut off mid-speech after he criticised Mr Bush, and the cameras switched to comedian Chris Tucker.

There has been widespread criticism of the US government's response to the storm, which struck on Monday. The scale of the casualties is not yet known, but tens of thousands of people remain in the devastated city of New Orleans while 75,000 people have been forced to take shelter in neighbouring Texas.

NBC, which broadcast the event, said "it would be most unfortunate if the efforts of the artists and the generosity of millions of Americans are overshadowed by one person's opinion".

Country star Tim McGraw, who is from Louisiana, sang two songs and said: "I know the citizens that weren't affected by this are gonna stand up and do good things for people."

Aaron Neville - who, like Connick Jr and Marsalis, is from New Orleans - performed Randy Newman's Louisiana 1927 with the chorus "they're trying to wash us away, they're trying to wash us away".

Actresses Hilary Swank and Lindsay Lohan also took part in the concert, while New York governor George Pataki presented the Red Cross with a cheque for $2.5 million (£1.3m) with a promise of further assistance.

"Help from Michael Moore..........."

The best thing the corpulent Mr. Moore could do to "help" the US is to go drink about ten gallons of the toxic waters they're currently pumping out of New Orleans! Hehehe!

as jake elwood said; if the shit fits... c'mon guys, get your heads out of he media portrayal of george. hes incompetent, inconsiderate and inept. hes fighting wars on foreign soil with your tax dollars... and doesnt consider the rainy day principle of resource management. the pie crust can only be spread so thing before it collapses, often catastrophically as in the case of katrina.

the weather gods cannot be bought or invaded, or even controlled... isnt it time someone realises that global warming is a reality, its not a conspiracy to sell compact cars... read trevor hoyles "the last gasp" written 30 years ago, and its all coming true, god help us all.

America is a world power. and in the face of mother nature is as vulnerable and poorly prepared as everyone else for disasters of this magnitude, blaming A or b or even C is counterproductive. blame can be apportioned later. saving lives, saving communities is more important than saving money.

be humble, for once in your lives, realise you are not the world power, just an also ran in the scale of things, and be happy for where you are. and dont be brainwashed by fox or CBS, use the internet. try reuters, or any UK broadsheet. the perception portrayed daily for domestic consumption, is different for world perception. and yet you don't see it, or you can't see it.

LL&P

"Help from Michael Moore..........."

The best thing the corpulent Mr. Moore could do to "help" the US is to go drink about ten gallons of the toxic waters they're currently pumping out of New Orleans! Hehehe!

It speaks volumes that you would rather have Moore die than have him help the people hurt by Katrina. In the words of Barbara Bush, "I'm done with you."

Hahaha! Cos he's fat! And, y'know, all fat and stuff. Not to mention his fatness. Haha. Fat.

so i have no takers on the history book test to try and disprove me

Antre_Travarious']Michael Moore is a repugnant asshole, and anyone who cites him should be ashamed of themselves.


I want a list of the crazed retards that wrote letters to Michael Moore asking how they could help.

Is this fat douche-bag kidding?

Is this a typical scene we could expect amongst his fan-base:

-"Honey-I feel terrible about the disaster-what do you think we should do to help?"
-"I'm not sure how we should best direct our efforts, Sweetcakes-we better write to Michael Moore for guidance".

Right. He would best help by sitting in one of the breaches in a levee to block it up. He could be marked as a tourist attraction and his fans could then visit him there for guidance

"Help from Michael Moore..........."

The best thing the corpulent Mr. Moore could do to "help" the US is to go drink about ten gallons of the toxic waters they're currently pumping out of New Orleans! Hehehe!
Still struggling with your hate/anger issues huh? :(

I've never really understood what the big deal was with some Americans when it comes to Michael Moore. I've personally always liked the guy. He's very popular here in Canada and well liked. He loves the United States and he makes that rather obvious by all the ways he tries to help get America back to the way it use to be, which most people want to see too, I think. Anyway, anyone who wants to help those poor people in Katrina's path, I say kudos to them. Michael Moore or anyone.

I've never really understood what the big deal was with some Americans when it comes to Michael Moore. I've personally always liked the guy. He's very popular here in Canada and well liked. He loves the United States and he makes that rather obvious by all the ways he tries to help get America back to the way it use to be, which most people want to see too, I think.

I can't speak for everyone, but I personally dislike the way Moore goes about the business of helping America "get back to the way it used to be". His little films do more harm than good for the liberal cause in this country because they give conservatives a great thing to point to when they want to prove that liberals are ridiculous. If he really wants to get America on the right track, maybe he should train to become a schoolteacher and help the youth in the US learn to think critically and inform themselves about politics. That would be much better than spending his time stirring up controversy and wasting his time taking both accurate and inaccurate potshots at Bush.

Anyway, anyone who wants to help those poor people in Katrina's path, I say kudos to them. Michael Moore or anyone.

I agree.

For anyone wanting to help the suffering people of New Orleans, here is some advice.

Wednesday, September 7th, 2005
Here's How You Can Make an Immediate Difference in Louisiana ...a message from Michael Moore

Friends,

There is much to be said and done about the manmade annihilation of New Orleans, caused NOT by a hurricane but by the very specific decisions made by the Bush administration in the past four and a half years. Do not listen to anyone who says we can discuss all this later. No, we can't. Our country is in an immediate state of vulnerability. More hurricanes and other disasters are on the way, and a lazy bunch of self-satisfied lunatics are still running the show.

So, in the next few days, I will write to you about what must be done about Bush and Co.

But today I want you to join with me in bypassing the colossally inept and incompetent Bush administration and get help DIRECTLY to the people of the New Orleans area -- right now.

A lot of you have written me to ask what you can do. Many don't know who to trust. Many want to do more than write a check. You are right to think that writing checks to relief agencies will not get water and aid to people in the next 48 hours. Checks will be needed later and can be written later.

I have a way, though, for each and every one of us to do something today that can affect people's lives TODAY.

For the past few days I've been working with a group that, I guarantee you, will get direct aid to the people who need it most.

Cindy Sheehan, the brave woman who dared to challenge Mr. Bush at his summer home, has now sent her Camp Casey from in front of Bush's ranch to the outskirts of New Orleans. The Veterans for Peace have taken all the equipment and staff of volunteers and set up camp in Covington, Louisiana, on the shores of Lake Pontchartrain. They are accepting materials and personally distributing them to those in need and have been going into New Orleans on a daily basis.

This is where we come in. We need to ship supplies to them immediately. Today they need the following:

Bottled Water (and lots of it!), baby diapers, baby wipes, baby formula, Pedialyte, baby items in general, powder, lotion, handy wipes, sterile gloves, electrolytes, LARGE cans of veggies, school supplies, paper plates, paper towels, toilet paper, and anything else to lift people's spirits.

You can ship these items by following the instructions on VFPRoadTrips.org. Or you can deliver them there in person. The roads to Covington are open. Their address is:

Volunteer Kitchen, Food Bank and Distribution Center
Pine View Middle School
1115 West 28th Avenue Covington, LA.
70434

Here's how to get there. You can drop them off or you can stay and participate (if you stay, you'll be camping so bring your own tent and gear and mosquito spray).

If you can't ship these items or go there in person, then go to VFPRoadTrips.org and make an immediate donation through PayPal. Camp Casey-Covington will have immediate access to this cash and can buy the items themselves from stores that are open in Louisiana (all donations to Veterans for Peace, are tax deductible).

Each day I will post up-to-the minute information as to what is needed and the progress Camp Casey is making. Please visit MichaelMoore.com often and do what you can to help.

Many other groups are also doing good work. MoveOn.org has set up a system for people to offer rooms in their homes to the survivors.

There is no time to waste. People are suffering and dying. Each of us can do something. There is no other alternative.

Thank you in advance for your help. Tomorrow, we will take care of the other work we need to do about the ideologically hamstrung incompetents in charge.

Yours,
Michael Moore

utter trash. Michael Moore is a piece of shit. thankfully, the only people who believe his incredibly biased, invalid horsetripe are left-wingers who would hate President Bush even if the Prez gave them a million dollars... we saw that with the results of the 2004 election. the fact is that Moore is almost totally discredited among moderates and totally discredited among republicans... he preaches to his socialist, "government should do everything for me" choir.

I've asked three or four times for someone to explain calmly what Moore is vilified for. All I've read so far is that he's fat, a traitor, shit, liberal, commie, and god knows what. No one seems able to string a few coherent sentences together and state facts. All I know is, he's doing a lot more than the foam-mouthed Moore haters, for a lot of desperate people.

He's very popular here in Canada and well liked.

Only in Ontario, which despite popular belief, is NOT Canada.

Well, your name is "Resurrected Fascism", so I guess that it's no surprise that you thinkt hat free speech should be answered with a bullet... Personally, I think that the concept of "treason" went out with absolute monarchies. Governments and nations only exist for the benefit of the people living in them, and as long as we have the right to disagree I don't see how criticising the government can be treasonous. To me, the greater "treason" is obeying your government when they stop following the principles your country is based on.

There is a difference between not agreeing with your government and calling your enemy "freedom fighters" and wishing death amongst your fellow countrymen.

Cindy and Moore should be arrested for their hate speech.

Canada City']There is a difference between not agreeing with your government and calling your enemy "freedom fighters" and wishing death amongst your fellow countrymen.

Cindy and Moore should be arrested for their hate speech.

Show me one credible quote where either 'wished death' on their countymen. Why does the 'right' fling wild accusations about and rarely give instance?

I've asked three or four times for someone to explain calmly what Moore is vilified for. All I've read so far is that he's fat, a traitor, shit, liberal, commie, and god knows what. No one seems able to string a few coherent sentences together and state facts. All I know is, he's doing a lot more than the foam-mouthed Moore haters, for a lot of desperate people.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=9613020&postcount=107

How about that?

Show me one credible quote where either 'wished death' on their countymen. Why does the 'right' fling wild accusations about and rarely give instance?


The Iraqis who have risen up against the occupation are not 'insurgents' or 'terrorists' or 'The Enemy.' They are the revolution, the Minutemen, and their numbers will grow - and they will win.


"They will win"? Sounds like he wants the troops to die just so he can prove that Bush is wrong.

Only the left wings...

Canada City']"They will win"? Sounds like he wants the troops to die just so he can prove that Bush is wrong.

Only the left wings...

'The Iraqis who have risen up against the occupation are not 'insurgents' or 'terrorists' or 'The Enemy.' They are the revolution, the Minutemen, and their numbers will grow - and they will win.'
I see no death being wished on anyone here.

Canada City']"They will win"? Sounds like he wants the troops to die just so he can prove that Bush is wrong.

Only the left wings...
Does he state that he wants the Iraqis to win? It would appear that you have put your personal thoughts in play here, without knowing what Michael's true thoughts are. So until you can prove what you have stated, your opinion is somewhat irrelevant.

I can't speak for everyone, but I personally dislike the way Moore goes about the business of helping America "get back to the way it used to be". His little films do more harm than good for the liberal cause in this country because they give conservatives a great thing to point to when they want to prove that liberals are ridiculous.
Is that really what you think? I think conservatives who point at his 'little' (little? Fahrenheit 9/11 was the highest-grossing doc ever made, dude) as an indicator of the ridiculousness of liberalism make total asshats of themselves in the eyes of all their fellows in the process. The trick is, while they may not agree with Moore, Moore is clever and witty. His work remains so, even after unclever conservative would-be-critics, lacking anything even remotely resembling wit, attempt to slice and dice his onscreen musings.If he really wants to get America on the right track, maybe he should train to become a schoolteacher and help the youth in the US learn to think critically and inform themselves about politics. That would be much better than spending his time stirring up controversy and wasting his time taking both accurate and inaccurate potshots at Bush.
Well, maybe he will teach someday - I think he'd make an excellent Film Studies prof - but I think he reaches a wider audience doing what he does best. I mean, there's lots of people I'd like to see doing something else for a living... certain notable people, to be sure... but I hardly think my fantasies, however heartfelt, will be seized upon by the objects of my desires and made real.

She lost a son in Iraq and you call her less than honourable? She campaigns and puts her life where her mouth is and you question her honour?
Hell YES, I "question" her honor! What else can you do with someone who dishonors her own son, for God's sake! :headbang:

Hell YES, I "question" her honor! What else can you do with someone who dishonors her own son, for God's sake! :headbang:
That's subject to interpretation. :headbang:

It speaks volumes that you would rather have Moore die than have him help the people hurt by Katrina. In the words of Barbara Bush, "I'm done with you."
Like I could give a shit?

Hell YES, I "question" her honor! What else can you do with someone who dishonors her own son, for God's sake! :headbang:

No, by calling her names, attributing false (or at least undemonstratable,) motivations to her and having no empathy at all for a distraught mother You inarguably dishoner her son. Her son who, if he's like any guy in the military I've ever met, would seriously mess you up for the things you constantly say about Mrs. Sheehan.

Eutrusca, you may disagree with her, but your attitude toward her is unforgivable and un-American. Why do you hate America for it's freedoms?

Ok.

All of you Moore bashing assholes. Listen to yourselves.
If you didn't notice, there's something in htis country called the First Amendment.
It's the first one for a reason. That means all of you have the right
to bash him as much as you please. But it also means that he has the right to say the things he finds important. But those of you who wish death upon him for his ideas and those of you who think he should be shut up are the unpatriotic ones. Moore is a patriot in the finest sense of the word. He stands up for his ideals, and sdoes what he can to make the nation a better place. You may disagree with him, but to claim that he is treasonous or wrong simply because he dissagrees with your view and the views of the current administration is, itself, a flat out unpatriotic and unAmerican statement.
That's right. It is those of you who would shut Moore up for his politics who are the unAmerican ones. I'll sjust let that stew for a bit.

Like I could give a shit?
*sighs*

Eut, how about telling us what you could actually give instead? Cindy Sheehan's giving her time and effort, and yes, her personal star-power, Moore seems to be lending his promotional skills and grassroots network to get goods and services dispensed fairly well, and the Veterans for Peace are apparently contributing greatly in man-hours.

How can you complain so bitterly about co-operation and human values?

Michael Moore haters make me giggle.

Don't they ever get tired of storming into every thread about him? Then they act like, "Ya know, I could almost have an once of respect for him, until he brought up POLITICS!!!"

Ohh, politics?! I would never expect that from a political activist...

Now excuse me, I'm going to run away from this topic before I have to defend my views.

Michael Moore haters make me giggle.

Don't they ever get tired of storming into every thread about him? Then they act like, "Ya know, I could almost have an once of respect for him, until he brought up POLITICS!!!"

Ohh, politics?! I would never expect that from a political activist...

Now excuse me, I'm going to run away from this topic before I have to defend my views.

::golf clap::

Although I won't say I agree with Mr. Michael Moore, the important thing is getting help to the NO area...not bashing the guy.

The point of the original post, I believe, was to educate the Nationstates Forums about yet another place to give aid, not to envoke this childish back and forth.

Don't like Moore? Give money/help/supplies somewhere else. BUT GIVE IT SOMEWHERE. When all the tragedies of the world have been solved, Moore-bashing/defending can become a priority. ONLY THEN.

the liberal mayor of NO

He was a Republican who gave money to the Bush campaign before he decided to run for office. He changed parties because New Orleans is heavily Democrat.

Moore is a patriot in the finest sense of the word. He stands up for his ideals, and does what he can to make the nation a better place.No, he does what he can to expand his wallet. Michael Moore does all of this for his own personal gain, not to make the nation a better place. You may disagree with him, but to claim that he is treasonous or wrong simply because he disagrees with your view and the views of the current administration is, itself, a flat out unpatriotic and unAmerican statement.
I don't say that he is wrong because he disagrees with me, I say he is wrong because he is a self-serving bigot.

*sighs*

Eut, how about telling us what you could actually give instead? Cindy Sheehan's giving her time and effort, and yes, her personal star-power, Moore seems to be lending his promotional skills and grassroots network to get goods and services dispensed fairly well, and the Veterans for Peace are apparently contributing greatly in man-hours.

How can you complain so bitterly about co-operation and human values?

He's a vietnam vet, show some respect. He can say whatever he likes because he walked the walk. If you don't like it, just ignore him. But don't ever belittle him for what he could give.

No, he does what he can to expand his wallet. Michael Moore does all of this for his own personal gain, not to make the nation a better place. I don't say that he is wrong because he disagrees with me, I say he is wrong because he is a self-serving bigot.

Are Senor Brush and Lon Cheney unpaid? I think you'll find they suck up a lot more $ than Mr. Moore.

Moore cannot be called self-serving (1. Serving one's own interests, especially without concern for the needs or interests of others.
2. Exhibiting concern solely for one's own interests: a speech full of self-serving comments) His films are all about the average American.
Moore cannot be called a bigot ( One who is strongly partial to one's own group, religion, race, or politics and is intolerant of those who differ.). That would decribe all the anti Moore posts here, including yours.

He's a vietnam vet, show some respect. He can say whatever he likes because he walked the walk. If you don't like it, just ignore him. But don't ever belittle him for what he could give.

'He's a vietnam vet, show some respect
Good for him. Does this mean we don't have to show Senor Brush any respect, seeing as how he and his pals dodged 'nam and allowed your mate to fight for him? Anyway, respect is earned on this board by what you write. Oh, and Dobb can say what he likes too, bullying him would be counter productive.

When your pal says this:
'Hell YES, I "question" her honor! (Sheehan) What else can you do with someone who dishonors her own son, for God's sake!'
He loses respect. Her son went to Iraq and died. If she hasn't got a right to voice her views, no one has. Apart from the fact that she's doing what her son fought for (it's called free speech, freedom of expression), I doubt very much that he would have appreciated 'nam vets or anyone else slagging his mum off. The people that 'dishonour' her sons memory are those that would shut Sheehan up.

Antre_Travarious']Michael Moore is a repugnant asshole, and anyone who cites him should be ashamed of themselves.

You site Zell Miller for shitting out loud!

He's a vietnam vet, show some respect. He can say whatever he likes because he walked the walk. If you don't like it, just ignore him. But don't ever belittle him for what he could give.
Ummm... no. I won't automatically accord him greater leeway because of his past. That's no excuse at all for vilifying Mr. Moore. Ms. Sheehan, or anyone involved in helping people out. And who said I was belittling him? He said he "couldn't give a shit". I think that attitude "sucked".

What's the problem here?

'He's a vietnam vet, show some respect
Good for him. Does this mean we don't have to show Senor Brush any respect, seeing as how he and his pals dodged 'nam and allowed your mate to fight for him? Anyway, respect is earned on this board by what you write. Oh, and Dobb can say what he likes too, bullying him would be counter productive.

I suggest you take a class in logic.

(you know all "s" is "m" does not imply that all not "s" is not "m", but nevermind :rolleyes: )

When your pal says this:
'Hell YES, I "question" her honor! (Sheehan) What else can you do with someone who dishonors her own son, for God's sake!'
He loses respect. Her son went to Iraq and died. If she hasn't got a right to voice her views, no one has. Apart from the fact that she's doing what her son fought for (it's called free speech, freedom of expression), I doubt very much that he would have appreciated 'nam vets or anyone else slagging his mum off. The people that 'dishonour' her sons memory are those that would shut Sheehan up.

She, obviously, can say what she likes. And anyone and everyone is free to disagree with her. That does not mean that people should belittle Eutrusca for any purported lack of service - which I believe was the original point of the post I was replying to. Given, however, your clear inability to parse things logically, I am sure that this salient fact escaped you. So I forgive you for your outburst.

(For the record, he is not my "buddy".)

Ummm... no. I won't automatically accord him greater leeway because of his past. That's no excuse at all for vilifying Mr. Moore. Ms. Sheehan, or anyone involved in helping people out. And who said I was belittling him? He said he "couldn't give a shit". I think that attitude "sucked".

What's the problem here?

Because you are snide.

Because you are snide.
That doesn't make any sense in context of my quoted post. And I wasn't being snide, as it happens - you're projecting an emotional context upon my words which originates in your mind, not mine.

That doesn't make any sense in context of my quoted post. And I wasn't being snide, as it happens - you're projecting an emotional context upon my words which originates in your mind, not mine.

Do you possess a dictionary?

Do you possess a dictionary?
Several. Why?

Several. Why?

Then I suggest you look up snide. It describes your post to Eut. exactly.

I mean, hell, Bush may have the brains of a pigeon and the political viewpoint of a concussed pekingese but for heavens sake, HE WAS ELECTED, MORON.

you're shooting yourself in the foot with that one because he really wasn't, not the second time and certainly not the first one.

i used to care but don't anymore...the wisdom of apathy is rather soothing.

you're shooting yourself in the foot with that one because he really wasn't, not the second time and certainly not the first one.

i used to care but don't anymore...the wisdom of apathy is rather soothing.


If you were truely apathetic you wouldnt even be responding to any of this crap in the first place...

So apparently you have no idea what you are doing or you dont understand what the word apathy is. BTW...a very nice arguement you gave right there...it was truely well laid out...let me repeat this gem of a arguement laid out by you "NO HE WASNT!" yes...very nice and well backed up with facts...wow..you are truely amazing..you should get on debating team...


Go shoot yourself in the face please.

Then I suggest you look up snide. It describes your post to Eut. exactly.
I know what snide means. And while you may choose to read whatever emotional subtext you may wish, I maintain I did not write with an intent to snideness; I've already stated this in a previous post - will we now arrange to talk in circles for the remainder of the evening?

(And anyway, you think I was snide and should cut a 3rd party NSer some slack on account of something you place importance upon. Well, let's call it off at "no, I wasn't" and "I guess we have different values". I see nothing useful coming from further discussion on this matter.)

He's a vietnam vet, show some respect. He can say whatever he likes because he walked the walk. If you don't like it, just ignore him. But don't ever belittle him for what he could give.
I have all the respect in the world for those who fight for the right of freedom of speech, and those who uphold those values. However, I have zero respect for those who wish death upon those who wish to exercize their right to free speech.

Martin Luther King never went to war but he risked his life so that others may be free. I have far more respect for that man than I do for some disgruntled Vietnam vet who consistently demonstrates contempt for "freedom of speech" and a seething hatred towards some of its' practioners.

(And anyway, you think I was snide and should cut a 3rd party NSer some slack on account of something you place importance upon. Well, let's call it off at "no, I wasn't" and "I guess we have different values". I see nothing useful coming from further discussion on this matter.)

Fair enough, we can agree to disagree. I just don't think you should "slyly disparage" Eut. about a lack of public service, given the fact you have never walked in his shoes, or actually put yourself in harms way for anything other than yourself.

And people cut you slack all the time on account of something they place importance upon. So be more tolerant.

I have all the respect in the world for those who fight for the right of freedom of speech, and those who uphold those values. However, I have zero respect for those who wish death upon those who wish to exercize their right to free speech.

Martin Luther King never went to war but he risked his life so that others may be free. I have far more respect for that man than I do for some disgruntled Vietnam vet who consistently demonstrates contempt for "freedom of speech" and a seething hatred towards some of its' practioners.

Did he wish death upon her?

Did he wish death upon her?
Upon Michael Moore (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=9611918&postcount=99).

I'm starting to really wonder about the Red Cross, as well. I don't know how many people watch the Daily Show, but having Samuel L. Jackson decry them that publiclly is rather unsettling.

this may shock many of you (and may make the rest of you think i'm a lunatic), but the red cross has been repeatedly used as a cover for american covert operations as far back as world war one.

for example, the red cross was heavily involved in russia during the revolution and it's long aftermath......and brought back not only a large amount of very valuable intelligence but also a good deal of corrupt business contracts. there are tons of other examples.

that's not to say that the red cross doesn't do a lot of good. of course it does. it's primary objective is still to help people. and it does.

however, it has been hijacked at it's upper level and is essentially an arm of the american intelligence apparatus. given this fact, it should not be surprising that it may do or say surprising things from time to time that don't make a lot of sense until you look at it in the way that the spooks are pumping it out.

Upon Michael Moore (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=9611918&postcount=99).

I don't think that actually qualifies as wishing death upon Cindy Sheehan.

In fact, I don't think that statement envinces a wish that anyone should die. It was just a bad joke.

I just want to point out that this is not only one big sentence, but it has no capital letters or punctuation whatsoever.

If it wasn't about EDUCATION it wouldn't be nearly as big of a deal.

yup. all of those uneducated fools that loathe punctuation should go back to school.

like edgar allen poe, for instance.

I've asked three or four times for someone to explain calmly what Moore is vilified for. All I've read so far is that he's fat, a traitor, shit, liberal, commie, and god knows what. No one seems able to string a few coherent sentences together and state facts. All I know is, he's doing a lot more than the foam-mouthed Moore haters, for a lot of desperate people.

as a canadiian leftie with views almost identical to moore i'll tell you why i don't like him:

he's a capitalist in socialist clothing.

his hypocrisy. that's what gets me.

now, if he gave everything away and walked the streets like gandhi, sure, i'd dig him then. until that happens he's just another - and i hate to say but it's true - fat cat getting rich off of the ignorance of the masses.

I don't think that actually qualifies as wishing death upon Cindy Sheehan.

In fact, I don't think that statement envinces a wish that anyone should die. It was just a bad joke.
Did I say Cindy Sheehan? I quite clearly stated Michael Moore. You can think of it as a bad joke if you wish, but the guy has a history and if you follow his posts, you would understand just how serious he is about this stuff?

BTW, if you don't think that wishing someone to drink the "toxic" water of New Orleans is a death wish, then you clearly don't know the meaning of the word "toxic"?

Did I say Cindy Sheehan? I quite clearly stated Michael Moore. You can think of it as a bad joke if you wish, but the guy has a history and if you follow his posts, you would understand just how serious he is about this stuff?

BTW, if you don't think that wishing someone to drink the "toxic" water of New Orleans is a death wish, then you clearly don't know the meaning of the word "toxic"?

Oh, rubbish. I once declared a fatwah on Michael Moore for his blasphemy. But that doesn't mean that I really want the man to die. It was an editorial statement, that's all.

I think you read far too much into this stuff.

The results of the catastrophe in NO are, to me, clearly the result of Louisiana electing socialist democrats. They have run the state for 40 to 60 years. Why don't you blame them. They have in the past gotten enough funds to fix the problem but they manage to spend it on their lackys. They give away money that other people worked for. If the twits in Louisiana hadn't elected socialists in the first place maybe the money wouldn't have been thrown down the rat hole. The federal government is going to spend at last count more than $200,ooo per fool. Only a socialist could take $1 dollar from people and spend 13 cents on the recipient and get away with it. After all, how smart can you be when you vote for a socialist?

If you were truely apathetic you wouldnt even be responding to any of this crap in the first place...

well, i'm bored. boredom tends to go with apathy.

not being apathetic would be, say, leaving the house once in a while and going out and making a difference in the real world.

but....i don't really care because i know that any difference i might make will eventually be negated by the process of time. hence, i sit around and rant on message boards instead.

this is apathy.


So apparently you have no idea what you are doing or you dont understand what the word apathy is.


i went through that already.


BTW...a very nice arguement you gave right there...it was truely well laid out...let me repeat this gem of a arguement laid out by you "NO HE WASNT!" yes...very nice and well backed up with facts...wow..you are truely amazing..you should get on debating team...


well, the following facts are not exactly unknown:

1) bush lost the popular vote to gore.
2) bush lost florida to gore.
3) bush was given the presidency by a stacked supreme court ruling.
4) the exit polls in the second election showed that kerry clearly won.

here is a source:
http://globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=viewArticle&code=MIT20050215&articleId=426

do not get used to it. as it so happens to be, one of my favourite sources happened to have an easily accessible link for me to hit.

there is much, much more information out there if you so choose to look for it. i would again ask you to educate yourself. this is not my responsibility.

i actually highly suggest the following site:

http://globalresearch.ca/

which is run by a professor at a local university.

Go shoot yourself in the face please.

i'm afraid that i'm not quite flexible enough to bring my penis up that far.

or wait.....were you trying to be violent? this is rather primitive, would you not think?

maybe even......uneducated?

Well, your name is "Resurrected Fascism", so I guess that it's no surprise that you thinkt hat free speech should be answered with a bullet... Personally, I think that the concept of "treason" went out with absolute monarchies. Governments and nations only exist for the benefit of the people living in them, and as long as we have the right to disagree I don't see how criticising the government can be treasonous. To me, the greater "treason" is obeying your government when they stop following the principles your country is based on.

No, you are wrong. It is still treason and they should be shot.

Oh, rubbish. I once declared a fatwah on Michael Moore for his blasphemy. But that doesn't mean that I really want the man to die. It was an editorial statement, that's all.

I think you read far too much into this stuff.
And I think you don't read enough into certain people's posts? I take the individual in question quite seriously, and you can do as you please.

You did seem to take serious issue with Dobb's posts, and now yet want to downplay the seriousness of the other poster in question? Seems like a double standard to say the least.

Bush didn't conjure the hurricane, as I have already stated on one of these hurricane threads, Bush was the hurricane. He ran through NO, kicking buildings over, and then he personally knocked the levees over. Then, when that failed to cause enough destruction for his Nazi tastes, he personally dumped buckets full of water in the city.
Katrina was just a cover-up, don't believe the lies!

Finally you say something realistic! BTW I like your sig, just putting it right out there "I, H N Fiddlebottoms VIII, am a total dick!"

The Florida supreme court messed up not the Supreme court. The Florida supreme court created it's own laws because they are a bunch of socialists. The recount they(FSC) ordered was unconstitution as their head justice layed out in his dissent. He said their order would never stand up in the SC.

Why didn't Kerry, the most decorated soldier for time served in the US military, challenge the results then? Bet you didn't know that Skerry was the most decorated soldier ever, did ya? I am speaking for the time he served of course. Gore wasn't elected. We have an electoral system because we are a republic. I know you socialists hate republics and the constitution but there it is. "Bring it all down man", the battle cry of socialism.

Professor of a local university aye? No he's not a socialist.

The Florida supreme court messed up not the Supreme court. The Florida supreme court created it's own laws because they are a bunch of socialists. The recount they(FSC) ordered was unconstitution as their head justice layed out in his dissent. He said their order would never stand up in the SC.

Why didn't Kerry, the most decorated soldier for time served in the US military, challenge the results then? Bet you didn't know that Skerry was the most decorated soldier ever, did ya? I am speaking for the time he served of course. Gore wasn't elected. We have an electoral system because we are a republic. I know you socialists hate republics and the constitution but there it is. "Bring it all down man", the battle cry of socialism.

I'm sorry, could you repeat that? I can still read a little out of my left eye, I'm not totally blind yet...

EDIT: How is it that exit polling was NEVER wrong in the entire history of the practice until 2000 and 2004? Look it up if you like, but you'll find that to be the case.

I'm sorry, could you repeat that? I can still read a little out of my left eye, I'm not totally blind yet...
Too funny!! :)

The Florida supreme court messed up not the Supreme court. The Florida supreme court created it's own laws because they are a bunch of socialists. The recount they(FSC) ordered was unconstitution as their head justice layed out in his dissent. He said their order would never stand up in the SC.

Why didn't Kerry, the most decorated soldier for time served in the US military, challenge the results then? Bet you didn't know that Skerry was the most decorated soldier ever, did ya? I am speaking for the time he served of course. Gore wasn't elected. We have an electoral system because we are a republic. I know you socialists hate republics and the constitution but there it is. "Bring it all down man", the battle cry of socialism.

Sure, no problem. Maybe now you can fill out the ballot in the "right" way. Exit polling? Sorry but that's not official.

The Florida supreme court messed up not the Supreme court. The Florida supreme court created it's own laws because they are a bunch of socialists. The recount they(FSC) ordered was unconstitution as their head justice layed out in his dissent. He said their order would never stand up in the SC.

Why didn't Kerry, the most decorated soldier for time served in the US military, challenge the results then? Bet you didn't know that Skerry was the most decorated soldier ever, did ya? I am speaking for the time he served of course. Gore wasn't elected. We have an electoral system because we are a republic. I know you socialists hate republics and the constitution but there it is. "Bring it all down man", the battle cry of socialism.

Sure, no problem. Maybe now you can fill out the ballot in the "right" way.


Thanks that seems to have done it, can't see a thing. Now I can vote republican like a good robot. Oh, wait, I lied, even being blind won't keep me from noticing the GLARING idiocy of the GOP and their ilk, nice try though :)

The Florida supreme court messed up not the Supreme court. The Florida supreme court created it's own laws because they are a bunch of socialists. The recount they(FSC) ordered was unconstitution as their head justice layed out in his dissent. He said their order would never stand up in the SC.

Why didn't Kerry, the most decorated soldier for time served in the US military, challenge the results then? Bet you didn't know that Skerry was the most decorated soldier ever, did ya? I am speaking for the time he served of course. Gore wasn't elected. We have an electoral system because we are a republic. I know you socialists hate republics and the constitution but there it is. "Bring it all down man", the battle cry of socialism.

heh.

i should be proud that senator mccarthy responded to my post, i guess.

anyways,

1) i don't care what's constitutional or not, i care who won. and gore won.
2) although i don't know the ins and outs of florida state law i do know that it is certainly constitutional to request a recount.
3) i don't see what being a decorated soldier has to do with challenging the results.
4) i don't know why kerry didn't challenge the results immediately. however, i do know that as of march or so he was quietly assembling a legal team. i do not know what ever came of this.
5) a possible answer to four is "skull and bones" but this presupposes a level of corruption in your government that even i would be hesitant to postulate.
6) that does not rule out 5 it just makes it hard to accept.
7) i did know that kerry was a highly decorated war hero, yes. did you know that he spent years as an anti-war protester?
8) gore wasn't elected because the supreme court ruled out a recount of florida. however, when the recount went ahead anyways it showed that gore won. hence, gore should have had the florida electoral votes and won the election.
9) there is no ideological gulf between republicanism (in it's government definition) and socialism. indeed, according to a recent "fancy-pants" political quiz i happen to be a republican libertarian communist.
10) i live in a socialist democracy.
11) your electoral system is certainly not ideal. one would think that the most democratic option would be to install the candidate with the most votes, no?

Exit polling? Sorry but that's not official.

Is that all you've got??? Where's the blistering torrent of insults declaring GWBs mandate? (Man-date, heh, purile jokes are the best). I mean, c'mon, you're slipping!

Professor of a local university aye? No he's not a socialist.

this guy cracks me up.

:p

Don't worry, I'm sure when they bus you to the polls, they'll also help you fill out your ballot. Robot my ass. I voted libertarian the first time he was elected. Bush was the first socialist I ever voted for. After seeing what his election did to the democrats, I had to vote for him on his second go around. I actually like him, Something even I find hard to believe.

Don't worry, I'm sure when they bus you to the polls, they'll also help you fill out your ballot. Robot my ass. I voted libertarian the first time he was elected. Bush was the first socialist I ever voted for. After seeing what his election did to the democrats, I had to vote for him on his second go around. I actually like him, Something even I find hard to believe.


It's chilling to see a "libertarian" endorse theivery, and underhanded tactics employed by disgusting people, even against others of their own stripe. Take how the Bush campaign treated John McCain in '00, "Bastard black child", "mental instability due to captivity in Vietnam." My bet is that if Rove told the shrub that cutting out and eating the hearts of Barbara and Jenna on national TV would get him the Nascar dad vote, he would have done it without a second thought.

Mr Canada, ask yourself, why didn't Skerry challenge. Could be he knew the results.
Florida was recounted 3 times by the way. Gore only wanted a recount in 3 heavily socialist counties. Florida law calls for recounts only when the machines are shown to be broken.
Canada's election laws suck. I take it you don't know any conservatives at all. I've heard on more than one occasion from western canadians that the elections are over before the west is even counted. Come on, you are populated by people that can't survive in the USA. We pay for you health care, because you don't need a military, and you must steal the medicine(patents) from our pharmacies making our medicine more expensive. Oh yea, I guess we can reimport medicine. By the way, I'll bet you that I've run into more Canadians here looking for work than you have met Americans there looking for work.

McCain is a kook by the way. Very politically unreliable. I suspect that power made him that way.

Don't worry, I'm sure when they bus you to the polls, they'll also help you fill out your ballot. Robot my ass. I voted libertarian the first time he was elected. Bush was the first socialist I ever voted for. After seeing what his election did to the democrats, I had to vote for him on his second go around. I actually like him, Something even I find hard to believe.


BTW, is the whole "war of northern aggression" still sticking in your craw a bit?

Michael Moore, stupidity's answer to common sense. Any Australians might recognize this quote "Of course Hurricane Katrina is Geaorge Bush's fault, why miss a chance to blame someone you already hate?" New Orleans problem was caused by a local governemnt problem. The levys were built to withstand a category 3 hurricane, not a category 4 like katrina, the were fucked before the thing hit the coast.

You did seem to take serious issue with Dobb's posts, and now yet want to downplay the seriousness of the other poster in question? Seems like a double standard to say the least.

Not at all. Micheal Moore is a public figure, and Eut. is joking about his "rescue" efforts. Moore put himself out there: Eut. didn't. It's not like Eut. is emailing Moore telling him to drink toxic water.

So is it a double standard? Well, only to the extent that people around here say things like "I wish Bush would die", &ct. but I am sure that they don't actually want the man dead.

BTW, is the whole "war of northern aggression" still sticking in your craw a bit?

Sticks in my craw. We could have one that one, if not for Davis.

... only to the extent that people around here say things like "I wish Bush would die", &ct. but I am sure that they don't actually want the man dead.

Well, I can actually agree with that. No, I don't actively wish death upon the pres. But, if he were to meet an untimely end, while that in itself would be a tragedy (though not on the magnetude of say... Kennedy) I don't know that I'd be sorry to see him go.

EDIT: actually I just might, seeing who his backup is...

It's chilling to see a "libertarian" endorse theivery
I consider socialism, thievery. You take away from producers and give to politicians. The politicians know that the mob wants bread and circuses. I suppose the pretty talk of politicians messmerizes you though.

Just curious. Why do socialists think it is ok to take from the rich? If it is so easy to take from the rich where does that leave the poor? In other words, if a rich man can't hold on to his own property, what value does a poor mans property have?

I consider socialism, thievery. You take away from producers and give to politicians. The politicians know that the mob wants bread and circuses. I suppose the pretty talk of politicians messmerizes you though.


YES number 100!!

So, you're telling me that a government that actively tries to care for the people it goeverns, in the form of fair labor laws (i.e. "right to work state" i.e. "fire away", bullshit goes out the window), a healthcare system that isn't presided over by the insurance lobby's grabbing hands, and fair assistance to the disadvantaged is theivery. <sarcasm>I guess you're right. I mean, why should I have to pay and "dues" to a country that has given me more opportunity and success than nearly any other I could be living in. Yeah! I did it all myself, I didn't need stupid shit like school, or funded civil services to keep me safe. In the end, me and my gun could have done anything we wanted. You know that happiness is, in fact, a warm gun...</sarcasm> (Thank you Paul McCartney)

Just curious. Why do socialists think it is ok to take from the rich? If it is so easy to take from the rich where does that leave the poor? In other words, if a rich man can't hold on to his own property, what value does a poor mans property have?


Well, as many of the thumpers here like to site scripture, I guess I will too. "The meek shall inherit the earth." Property is transitory in the FIRST place, why do you place sooo much value on it? It's not like it goes with you to wherever it is one goes, or doesn't go after death.

Mr Canada, ask yourself, why didn't Skerry challenge. Could be he knew the results.

but the results are that he won. that doesn't make any sense.

gore took a huge public beating for challenging the results as long as he did. kerry may have not wanted to go through with this.

however, as for the skull and bones theory.....i'll point out that kerry came out of nowehere to win all of the primaries in a string of stunning upsets.

he may have "known" the results well before election night.

Canada's election laws suck. I take it you don't know any conservatives at all.

where i live there aren't any conservatives......or at the very least they're all rich assholes whom i don't generally communicate with. so, you're right, i don't know any conservatives.

imagine a country where the vast majority of people actually believe in democratic socialism. that's canada.

I've heard on more than one occasion from western canadians that the elections are over before the west is even counted.

canada has several "election zones". the far west - british columbia - doesn't even have a conservative party - it has liberals and new democrats, which are truly socialists. right on the other side of the rockies is alberta, which votes heavily conservative. from saskatchewan to ontario is liberal country with batches of ndp ridings and a few conservative ridings here and there. quebec has it's own party. the atlantic provinces, or maritimes, fluctuate between the conservatives and the liberals with a few ndp ridings here and there.

more than 3/4 of the population lives east of alberta.

so, yes, the elections are generally over before they get to alberta because 3/4 of the votes are already counted and of the 1/4 left, the british columbians vote overwhelmingly to the left.

that, whether you or they like it or not, is how democracy works. it is actually not unlikely that our riding system will also be reformed to move closer to a truly representational government so that our 75% liberal/socialist population is better represented in parliament against the 25% conservative population which currently holds a disproportionate number of seats.

Come on, you are populated by people that can't survive in the USA.

a large proportion of our settlers were british loyalists, yes.

We pay for you health care

enjoy your hurricane relief, which is mostly medical supplies. it's a shame you couldn't afford it or didn't have the infrastructure to put it together. i hear cuba is helping you out with this as well.

you're welcome.

maybe you can give us back the 5 billion dollars you stole from us some time soon? can you squeeze that out of your war budget?

because you don't need a military

we don't want one. we're a peaceful nation.

furthermore, we're your largest weapons contractor. the way it works is that we build you your weapons and develop disproportionate amounts of your military technology and then sell it to you. in appreciation, you choose to defend us and your interests invested here.

then we take the money we made from selling you weapons and invest it peacefully.


, and you must steal the medicine(patents) from our pharmacies making our medicine more expensive.

send the cia after us, then. our secret service rides horses for christ's sake, how hard could it be to catch them breaking into your drugstores?

our blatant theft of your medicine only proves that all of president bush's focus on domestic security has been a tremendous failure.

By the way, I'll bet you that I've run into more Canadians here looking for work than you have met Americans there looking for work.

great! that keeps the population down, allowing us to continue living in our socialist paradise.

Not at all. Micheal Moore is a public figure, and Eut. is joking about his "rescue" efforts. Moore put himself out there: Eut. didn't. It's not like Eut. is emailing Moore telling him to drink toxic water.

So is it a double standard? Well, only to the extent that people around here say things like "I wish Bush would die", &ct. but I am sure that they don't actually want the man dead.
You can defend him all you like, and if you think he is joking, I think you are sadly mistaking. He has earned no respect and doesn't deserve any as far as I and several others are concerned. We believe he is dead serious (forgive the pun) and you don't, no big deal. There is a huge difference between the terse language that he uses and light hearted jokes.

*snip*
...I mean, hell, Bush may have the brains of a pigeon and the political viewpoint of a concussed pekingese but for heavens sake, HE WAS ELECTED, MORON...

I guess his level of intelligence is an indicator of his voters as well...it takes a moron to vote for one.

I live in a right to work state. I could live somewhere where the union tells me pay up or don't work, but, I hate fascism almost as much as socialism. I pay 20 dollars week 5 dollar copay for insurance for my entire family and we get a doctor of our choice. Bet you don't? Is it fair to make doctors work for the government? Isn't it illegal in Canada to get your own private doctor? Maybe the rich can? And, like I said, America pays for your free stand in line, can't get a specialist, if I need a surgeon(specialist) tomorrow I better go to the US medical system. Our military spending pays for your free, and worth every penny, medical system.

Fair labor laws are one thing, socialism is quite another. That is why half the canadians I know work under the table in the US. Assistanc is one thing, dependency quite another. New Orleans is a perfect example of what people become when they lose their independence. Assistanc becomes a sense of entitlement. The nanny state destroys families because it has taken the place of the father. I have known welfare moms living in free housing with their live in boyfriends. I have actually busted my ass working because I have some pride and lived right across the street from somebody who got everything for free with no plans of ever working. Man it irked me to see the scum across the street get fat on my dime. Look at New Orleans again. How did they get fat? I never saw so many poor fat people before.

You can't take your property with you? I guess socialists don't have kids and I guess you have never worked for anything in your life. They don't wait for people to die before stealing their property.

There is much to be said and done about the manmade annihilation of New Orleans, caused NOT by a hurricane but by the very specific decisions made by the Bush administration in the past four and a half years. Do not listen to anyone who says we can discuss all this later. No, we can't. Our country is in an immediate state of vulnerability. More hurricanes and other disasters are on the way, and a lazy bunch of self-satisfied lunatics are still running the show.

This sounds to me as though Moore is blaming Bush for the disaster in New Orleans. It is impossible that any decision made by Bush or his mates would have resulted in widespread destruction and flooding. From what I understand, the hurricane destroyed the surrounding sea barrier(s). I don't see how Bush or his policies could have in any way caused the hurricane.

You can defend him all you like, and if you think he is joking, I think you are sadly mistaking. He has earned no respect and doesn't deserve any as far as I and several others are concerned. We believe he is dead serious (forgive the pun) and you don't, no big deal. There is a huge difference between the terse language that he uses and light hearted jokes.

Dude, he's a 'nam vet. Of course he's fucked up. They all are. It's something to do with being spat in the face by draft dodgers when they returned from their comabt tour. So he gets upset about certain things. Cut him some slack.

Personally, I have found that there are a lot of posters on NS that get huge amounts of deference just because they claim they belong to a victim group. Can't we do the same for Eut?

Dude, he's a 'nam vet. Of course he's fucked up. They all are. It's something to do with being spat in the face by draft dodgers when they returned from their comabt tour. So he gets upset about certain things. Cut him some slack.

Personally, I have found that there are a lot of posters on NS that get huge amounts of deference just because they claim they belong to a victim group. Can't we do the same for Eut?

As he IS a Vietnam Veteran, I personaly, find it appalling that he has such a hatred for anyone who wishes to speak thier mind, when they have views opposite to Eut.

If anyone should have respect for a person, in terms of being allowed free speech, after having fought for his country, you would think it would be someone like that.
However, mostly he spews hatred towards any differing opinions.

This sounds to me as though Moore is blaming Bush for the disaster in New Orleans. It is impossible that any decision made by Bush or his mates would have resulted in widespread destruction and flooding. From what I understand, the hurricane destroyed the surrounding sea barrier(s). I don't see how Bush or his policies could have in any way caused the hurricane.


I think youre getting the idea that Moore blames the hurricane on Bush, becuase thats what you want to hear.

Read it again.
Hes not blaming the hurricane on Bush, hes blaming the slow and weak relief efforts on behalf of the Federal Government on him.
Where, they partially lie.

As he IS a Vietnam Veteran, I personaly, find it appalling that he has such a hatred for anyone who wishes to speak thier mind, when they have views opposite to Eut.

If anyone should have respect for a person, in terms of being allowed free speech, after having fought for his country, you would think it would be someone like that.
However, mostly he spews hatred towards any differing opinions.

Yah, well you are a hopeless political hack though. Had that venom been spewed at republicans you would have loved it, and given him plaudits. Nay, even panegyric encomium.

I think youre getting the idea that Moore blames the hurricane on Bush, becuase thats what you want to hear.

Read it again.
Hes not blaming the hurricane on Bush, hes blaming the slow and weak relief efforts on behalf of the Federal Government on him.
Where, they partially lie.


Where ever did you get the idea that that's what I want to hear? You don't know me. I got the idea from this:

There is much to be said and done about the manmade annihilation of New Orleans, caused NOT by a hurricane but by the very specific decisions made by the Bush administration in the past four and a half years....

Manmade annihilation? Caused NOT by a hurricane? Caused by very specific decisions made by the Bush administration? There is nothing in that sentence that indicates blame toward slow and weak relief efforts at all.

I do agree that the relief efforts have been slow though.

Look, as far as the whole angry, been-done-wrong veteran pose goes, my serious bone of contention is that the guy soft-pedals war with astonishing regularity. I've known seven or eight veterans in my time - World War II, Korea... and one of my childhood friends drove a tank in Bosnia-Hercegovina, and has sustained minor permanent injuries in his time in uniform.

Not a single one of them, on reflection, thought the way to solve your problems is with the barrel of a gun. The older ones all felt a burning need for young people to know that fighting isn't the answer, to anything. To try leaving behind a stronger sense of the pointless waste and stupidity that is armed conflict. A legacy of peace - that's the overwhelming desire that ran through each of these men.

I'll ask - what purported 'victim' group are you lumping me in with, Lacadaemon? I don't recall thumping my chest of late. Please let me know so I can hopefully dissuade anybody from cutting me any slack.

Dude, he's a 'nam vet. Of course he's fucked up. They all are. It's something to do with being spat in the face by draft dodgers when they returned from their comabt tour. So he gets upset about certain things. Cut him some slack.
Sorry, but I am not buying that crap. You can buy into his poor me stuff, but not I. If he feels that he has been victimized (your words, not his or mine), then he can get help. Even if he is a victim, it doesn't mean that he has the right to victimize others. By buying into his crap does him more harm than good, and ultimately it is more harmful to those around him or that may be affected by him. Holding on to hatred and anger is unhealthy to say the least. I speak from personal experience. So, no slack and no respect. I even offered help and personally speaking, I don't think he wants any. If you want to make excuses for him (although he might not appreciate that) then be my guest but I am not going to play along.

I have tried to reach out to him and all he has done, (excuse the pun) is spit in my face.

Look, as far as the whole angry, been-done-wrong veteran pose goes, my serious bone of contention is that the guy soft-pedals war with astonishing regularity. I've known seven or eight veterans in my time - World War II, Korea... and one of my childhood friends drove a tank in Bosnia-Hercegovina, and has sustained minor permanent injuries in his time in uniform.

Not a single one of them, on reflection, thought the way to solve your problems is with the barrel of a gun. The older ones all felt a burning need for young people to know that fighting isn't the answer, to anything. To try leaving behind a stronger sense of the pointless waste and stupidity that is armed conflict. A legacy of peace - that's the overwhelming desire that ran through each of these men.

I'll ask - what purported 'victim' group are you lumping me in with, Lacadaemon? I don't recall thumping my chest of late. Please let me know so I can hopefully dissuade anybody from cutting me any slack.

Now that's funny, because most of the non-vietnam vets I know, say that combat was the best time of their lives. And I am good friends with people who served in everything from the falklands through N.I. to the gulf.

And how do you get your text so tiny?

Yah, well you are a hopeless political hack though. Had that venom been spewed at republicans you would have loved it, and given him plaudits. Nay, even panegyric encomium.


Flaming me only makes me love you.

However, I have to commend your vocabulary.
Its not everyday I see "panegyric encomium" used in a sentence.

Also, I doubt you know me well enough, or read enough of my posts to make such a judgement.

Also, if it helps, Im very much in favor of anyone being allowed to spew whatever crap they can come up with, Left, or Right.
Ive seen several times where Eut, does not.

Now that's funny, because most of the non-vietnam vets I know, say that combat was the best time of their lives. And I am good friends with people who served in everything from the falklands through N.I. to the gulf.

And how do you get your text so tiny?
I guess I just don't share your sense of humour. And neither did the people I knew, I'll add.

I still want to know what sort of 'victim' status you apparently think I brandish like a cudgel on the forums.

Now that's funny, because most of the non-vietnam vets I know, say that combat was the best time of their lives. And I am good friends with people who served in everything from the falklands through N.I. to the gulf.

And how do you get your text so tiny?
If the people that you know think that "combat was the best time of their lives", then I guess they have had very shallow unrewarding experiences with living?

Sorry, but I am not buying that crap. You can buy into his poor me stuff, but not I. If he feels that he has been victimized (your words, not his or mine), then he can get help. Even if he is a victim, it doesn't mean that he has the right to victimize others. By buying into his crap does him more harm than good, and ultimately it is more harmful to those around him or that may be affected by him. Holding on to hatred and anger is unhealthy to say the least. I speak from personal experience. So, no slack and no respect. I even offered help and personally speaking, I don't think he wants any. If you want to make excuses for him (although he might not appreciate that) then be my guest but I am not going to play along.

I have tried to reach out to him and all he has done, (excuse the pun) is spit in my face.

Well if you actually have tried to reach out and he was a douche bag, then I totally understand your position.

The thing of it is with fucked up people is that they don't know that they are fucked up. He probably doesn't realize it either. I am just saying, respect his service, and if you don't agree with him, ignore him. (Which was the point of my original post). There is no point in belittling him about it, and I find that somewhat disrespectful.

Well if you actually have tried to reach out and he was a douche bag, then I totally understand your position.

The thing of it is with fucked up people is that they don't know that they are fucked up. He probably doesn't realize it either. I am just saying, respect his service, and if you don't agree with him, ignore him. (Which was the point of my original post). There is no point in belittling him about it, and I find that somewhat disrespectful.
*sighs*

For the last time, I didn't belittle the man, Lac. This is getting repetitive, and it's laaaate.

Signing off,

Dobbs.

If the people that you know think that "combat was the best time of their lives", then I guess they have had very shallow unrewarding experiences with living?

I grew up in the north east of England. I'm half a geordie. Go read the Road to Wigan Pier by George Orwell.

I live in a right to work state. I could live somewhere where the union tells me pay up or don't work, but, I hate fascism almost as much as socialism. I pay 20 dollars week 5 dollar copay for insurance for my entire family and we get a doctor of our choice. Bet you don't?


we choose our own family doctors here for checkups, etc. few people do much more than pick the guy closest to their house.....but if i wanted to i could go to another doctor across town granted that he is taking new patients.


Is it fair to make doctors work for the government?


they get paid very well. furthermore, it puts the entire "industry" in a co-operative system that, as an arm of government, is actually accountable to the people.

we don't have quacks setting up shop downtown and doing surgery at discount prices.

Isn't it illegal in Canada to get your own private doctor?

it's illegal to pay him, but it's certainly not illegal to choose the doctor you want and continue going back to him for periodic, scheduled checkups.

Maybe the rich can?

our health system is universal; age, gender, ethnicity, income, status, class, whatever make no difference.

the person who needs treatment most is the person who gets it first. it's that simple.

And, like I said, America pays for your free stand in line, can't get a specialist, if I need a surgeon(specialist) tomorrow I better go to the US medical system.

that's bullshit; we actually lose billions of dollars a year from americans coming up here and using fake ohip cards, although we've been trying to crack down on it.

of course in certain instances if you need a specific specialist that's not available up here you have to go down there. but in certain instances if you need a specific specialist that's not down there you have to come up here too. in certain instances where you need a specific specialist they might have to fly you to thailand.

this is no indication of the quality of the canadian, american or thai medical systems.....it just has to do with the physical location of the actual specialist.

.....and you know what the united nations thinks about our medical system, but they're just socialists anyways.....

Our military spending pays for your free, and worth every penny, medical system.

i was actually being a little bit of a dink; we're not your largest arms manufacturer, but we are in the top five or ten and i believe that we are your biggest importer.......and it is actually the government doing this, not a private firm, although we do have some big firms here.

however, we have extremely high taxes in canada and this is what covers most of the costs. not having a large military does allow us to put more money into education and health care.

furthermore, we do have a small military that is currently in afghanistan and yugoslavia but not in iraq. we're not japan.

Fair labor laws are one thing, socialism is quite another. That is why half the canadians I know work under the table in the US.

heh. well, you do live in the us. alabama is quite a ways from canada. therefore, most canadians you know would work in the united states and quite possibly without a green card.....as i don't know why anybody would want to go to alabama if they had a green card.....

You can't take your property with you? I guess socialists don't have kids and I guess you have never worked for anything in your life. They don't wait for people to die before stealing their property.

this is something i can agree with you on.....sort of.

the socialists would want to steal your property but it would be because they don't believe in the idea of property. if socialists ran the united states they would take your land, survey it and decide what best to do with it. if it is good farmland and you are a farmer then they would let you farm.....and they would steal your crops, although you would be given whatever it is you needed as long as it was not exorbitant.

however, socialists do not run the united states. capitalists do. they still want your land except they want it to charge you rent/mortgage payments so they can make money from you, in which case they won't really steal your land they'll just steal your money.

but you shouldn't blame the government. you should blame the bank.

Mr. Moore may be a selfish grandstander,but he certainly isnt any worse than the selfish liars we have in office who pretend they care about us little people,and Mr. Moore is good at exposing governmental hypocracy and stupidity.
let him plug his books and website. he is certainly not the only opportunist in the USA that profits from human suffering. they come a dime a dozen...

Good or bad news, depending on your politics.............

Controversial film-maker MICHAEL MOORE is planning to make a hard-hitting documentary based on US President GEORGE W BUSH's handling of the Hurricane Katrina rescue operation.

Moore grabbed international acclaim with his scathing 2004 film FAHRENHEIT 9/11, which studied Bush's handling of the September 11th (01) terrorist attacks.

The Oscar winner is now "seriously considering" documenting the catastrophe in America's Gulf Coast region.

He tells the New York Daily News, "There is much to be said and done about the man-made annihilation of New Orleans, caused not by a hurricane but by the very specific decisions made by the Bush administration in the past four and a half years.

"Do not listen to anyone who says we can discuss all this later. No, we can't. Our country is in an immediate state of vulnerability.

"More hurricanes, wars, and other disasters are on the way, and a lazy bunch of self-satisfied lunatics are still running the show."

http://www.contactmusic.com/new/xmlfeed.nsf/mndwebpages/moore%20to%20capture%20katrina%20on%20film

we choose our own family doctors here for checkups, etc. few people do much more than pick the guy closest to their house.....but if i wanted to i could go to another doctor across town granted that he is taking new patients.


True, but I don't trust a doctor that gets paid by the government. They can bullshit you since they get paid anyways.

Many crooked doctors in Canada.


they get paid very well. furthermore, it puts the entire "industry" in a co-operative system that, as an arm of government, is actually accountable to the people.


If they are getting paid well, why are some of our doctors leaving for the states? Why do we have a shortage of them?


it's illegal to pay him, but it's certainly not illegal to choose the doctor you want and continue going back to him for periodic, scheduled checkups.


Tell that to Paul Martin's PRIVATE doctor that he pays for. This same Private doctor that no one else can have (except for BC and Quebec, two-tier system and all)


our health system is universal; age, gender, ethnicity, income, status, class, whatever make no difference.

the person who needs treatment most is the person who gets it first. it's that simple.


This is what makes our health care system pathetic. We are literally getting the same quality of healthcare that a bum can also get. Would you really trust a healthcare like that?

Also, why should I be paying for someone else's healthcare? I'm healthy, allergy free, and my puberty breakup was TWO zits the most. I have my own troubles to attend to, and I shouldn't be forced to help someone else.

Canada City']True, but I don't trust a doctor that gets paid by the government. They can bullshit you since they get paid anyways.

Many crooked doctors in Canada.



If they are getting paid well, why are some of our doctors leaving for the states? Why do we have a shortage of them?



Tell that to Paul Martin's PRIVATE doctor that he pays for. This same Private doctor that no one else can have (except for BC and Quebec, two-tier system and all)



This is what makes our health care system pathetic. We are literally getting the same quality of healthcare that a bum can also get. Would you really trust a healthcare like that?

Also, why should I be paying for someone else's healthcare? I'm healthy, allergy free, and my puberty breakup was TWO zits the most. I have my own troubles to attend to, and I shouldn't be forced to help someone else.


This is a glowing example of the kind of attitude that keeps the entire human race from truly moving forward. "I'm too scared, greedy, self-centered, etc. etc. to give a damn about anyone accept myself." This kind of thing stands in the way of us (humans) actually becoming one people, which we should be.

This is a glowing example of the kind of attitude that keeps the entire human race from truly moving forward. "I'm too scared, greedy, self-centered, etc. etc. to give a damn about anyone accept myself." This kind of thing stands in the way of us (humans) actually becoming one people, which we should be.


Ah, so you think Communism actually works?

Here's the big major reason as to why people will NEVER work together: Human nature. There will be always be someone in a large crowd that wants more then their fair share. It just doesn't work, and Russia proved that.

If I want to help someone, it should be by my OWN FREE WILL, not forced. I have debts to pay, bills, rent, clothes, and food. I have my own problems to deal with. Now Paul Martin wants to make government-paid child care, so not only am I paying for someone else's doctor (especially since I never, ever visted a hospital before), but soon I'm paying for someone else's kid. And the best part is...they are going to be less effective then a privately-owned healthcare or childcare. It's lose-lose to every canadian citizen out there.

But you'll vote liberal in the next election, despite the money lost into the gun registry and AdScam.

Canada City']If I want to help someone, it should be by my OWN FREE WILL, not forced. I have debts to pay, bills, rent, clothes, and food. I have my own problems to deal with. Now Paul Martin wants to make government-paid child care, so not only am I paying for someone else's doctor (especially since I never, ever visted a hospital before), but soon I'm paying for someone else's kid. And the best part is...they are going to be less effective then a privately-owned healthcare or childcare. It's lose-lose to every canadian citizen out there.

But you'll vote liberal in the next election, despite the money lost into the gun registry and AdScam.
I am curious as to why you relocated to Canada?

Note: Globes, I'm not attacking you, I'm attacking Mr. Moore's ideas.
For anyone wanting to help the suffering people of New Orleans, here is some advice.

Wednesday, September 7th, 2005
Here's How You Can Make an Immediate Difference in Louisiana ...a message from Michael Moore

Okay, so far so good. No Anti-Bush comments in the heading.

Friends,

Bull, Mr. Moore. You are not these people's friends. Right now, you are probably at your million dollar home, eating pork rinds, and watching an anti-Bush show or some porn flick, instead of helping the people you say you greatly "care" about.

There is much to be said and done about the manmade annihilation of New Orleans, caused NOT by a hurricane but by the very specific decisions made by the Bush administration in the past four and a half years. Do not listen to anyone who says we can discuss all this later. No, we can't. Our country is in an immediate state of vulnerability. More hurricanes and other disasters are on the way, and a lazy bunch of self-satisfied lunatics are still running the show.

Oh my God! The Bush Adminstration has created a machine that controls the weather? Those bastards! How dare they create something like that. :rolleyes: Seriously, though, what Mr. "Creampuff" Moore is saying is that the Bush administration played God and sent a category 5 hurricane at New Orleans, deintensified it category 4, and virtually destroyed the city, along with many other cities in about a 200 mile radius. Prove it, Mr. Moore. Prove that this hurricane should be renamed Hurricane Bush due to the fact he created it, and I'll agree with you, Mr. Moore. Oh and, no, I don't want to discuss this later, Micheal Moore. I want to argue with you now.

So, in the next few days, I will write to you about what must be done about Bush and Co.

But today I want you to join with me in bypassing the colossally inept and incompetent Bush administration and get help DIRECTLY to the people of the New Orleans area -- right now.

Okay, so now, in addition to saying Bush created it, you are also saying that he is so stupid that he won't send help. First of all, Bush got degrees from Harvard and Yale. You, Mr. Moore, dropped out of Michigan University your first year. Wow, you are so much smarter than Bush. Second, we are talking about an area that is completely devastated from the southwest coast of Mississippi to Mobile, AL. That's a huge area to help out, not to mention getting shot at by some psychopath when you are trying to rescue people. Everyone, including Bush, would agree that if we could save everyone and rebuild the area in one day, we would. But, that is not the case, as there is almost complete chaos down in New Orleans, making it tough to save people without you, them, or others getting hurt or killed.
A lot of you have written me to ask what you can do. Many don't know who to trust. Many want to do more than write a check. You are right to think that writing checks to relief agencies will not get water and aid to people in the next 48 hours. Checks will be needed later and can be written later.

I have a way, though, for each and every one of us to do something today that can affect people's lives TODAY.

Okay, now you are also bashing relief agencies, which I know are doing a helluva lot more than you are. Second, I don't think many people would turn to you to see how to help. Those that do, are the ones that don't know who to trust, because if they donated money to you to get to the victims of Hurricane Katrina, you would probably buy 10 full-racks of ribs at Chili's or Applebee's with that money.

For the past few days I've been working with a group that, I guarantee you, will get direct aid to the people who need it most.

Cindy Sheehan, the brave woman who dared to challenge Mr. Bush at his summer home, has now sent her Camp Casey from in front of Bush's ranch to the outskirts of New Orleans. The Veterans for Peace have taken all the equipment and staff of volunteers and set up camp in Covington, Louisiana, on the shores of Lake Pontchartrain. They are accepting materials and personally distributing them to those in need and have been going into New Orleans on a daily basis.

First of all, "Mr. Bush" has a title: The President of The United States. I don't care if you wish the man would fall off a cliff, he has a title, and you respect that position he has. If Sen. Kerry had been elected, although I don't like him, I still would consider him the President/Commander-in-Chief. Second, Cindy Sheehan is not a qualified person to go and rescue people. It has to be done by professionals who know what they are doing and how to negotiate with psychopaths. Her group isn't too reliable either. They could get themselves killed, or others. Rescuing must be done by professionals.

This is where we come in. We need to ship supplies to them immediately. Today they need the following:

Bottled Water (and lots of it!), baby diapers, baby wipes, baby formula, Pedialyte, baby items in general, powder, lotion, handy wipes, sterile gloves, electrolytes, LARGE cans of veggies, school supplies, paper plates, paper towels, toilet paper, and anything else to lift people's spirits.

You can ship these items by following the instructions on VFPRoadTrips.org. Or you can deliver them there in person. The roads to Covington are open. Their address is:

Volunteer Kitchen, Food Bank and Distribution Center
Pine View Middle School
1115 West 28th Avenue Covington, LA.
70434

Here's how to get there. You can drop them off or you can stay and participate (if you stay, you'll be camping so bring your own tent and gear and mosquito spray).

If you can't ship these items or go there in person, then go to VFPRoadTrips.org and make an immediate donation through PayPal. Camp Casey-Covington will have immediate access to this cash and can buy the items themselves from stores that are open in Louisiana (all donations to Veterans for Peace, are tax deductible).

Each day I will post up-to-the minute information as to what is needed and the progress Camp Casey is making. Please visit MichaelMoore.com often and do what you can to help.

Okay, most of this part is actually good: Donate supplies, send money... But don't encourage people who don't know what they are doing to go down there. Just stick with the shipping and donating.

Many other groups are also doing good work. MoveOn.org has set up a system for people to offer rooms in their homes to the survivors.

There is no time to waste. People are suffering and dying. Each of us can do something. There is no other alternative.

You could talk about conservative groups helping out too. They are trying to do the same thing. But I bet you would say they are poisoning the supplies or something like that. But the rest of this part, I (it is so hard to say this) agree with you.

Thank you in advance for your help. Tomorrow, we will take care of the other work we need to do about the ideologically hamstrung incompetents in charge.

I knew he would insult Bush again. Also, the Bush Administration is doing as much as they can. Don't call them incompetent, because I sure as hell don't know what you have done for the victims of Hurricane Katrina.

Yours,
Michael Moore

A.K.A. Roly Poly, or Mr. Creampuff.(Sorry, couldn't help myself there.)

I am curious as to why you relocated to Canada?

I was born in Montreal, Quebec. My mother was from Poland and my father was from Armenia.

We went from Montreal to Toronto because in Montreal, if you do not speak french, NO ONE wanted to deal with you.

Canada City']I was born in Montreal, Quebec. My mother was from Poland and my father was from Armenia.

We went from Montreal to Toronto because in Montreal, if you do not speak french, NO ONE wanted to deal with you.
And the standard of living in Canada is better than in Poland or Armenia?

And if you were born in Montreal, you should be bilingual, unless you moved to Toronto at an early age?

And Montreal is a bilingual city, with a large population of Anglophones, so I find it hard to believe that "if you do not speak french, NO ONE wanted to deal with you"?

And the standard of living in Canada is better than in Poland or Armenia?

And if you were born in Montreal, you should be bilingual, unless you moved to Toronto at an early age?

Nice stereotype, but no, I don't speak french. Left when I was six.


And Montreal is a bilingual city, with a large population of Anglophones, so I find it hard to believe that "if you do not speak french, NO ONE wanted to deal with you"?

Riight...so why did my family move then? Just for kicks?

A.K.A. Roly Poly, or Mr. Creampuff.(Sorry, couldn't help myself there.)

LOL :D

unfunny, Michael Moore does his best to expose what he feels are gross breaches of the US constitution especially in the areas of civil liberties, he shows the consequences of the current US foriegn policy, even if you don't agree with him at least have the common decency to respect his work and respect the fact that he's doing what he believes will ultimatly benefit the US and the whole world.

Note: Globes, I'm not attacking you, I'm attacking Mr. Moore's ideas.

Im gonna attack yours, if you dont mind.


Okay, so far so good. No Anti-Bush comments in the heading.

Its Michael Moore, what the hell are you ecxpecting?



Bull, Mr. Moore. You are not these people's friends. Right now, you are probably at your million dollar home, eating pork rinds, and watching an anti-Bush show or some porn flick, instead of helping the people you say you greatly "care" about.

I'll bet you anything he has done waaay more to help than YOU have.
HAVE SOME PORK RINDS?



Oh my God! The Bush Adminstration has created a machine that controls the weather? Those bastards! How dare they create something like that. :rolleyes: Seriously, though, what Mr. "Creampuff" Moore is saying is that the Bush administration played God and sent a category 5 hurricane at New Orleans, deintensified it category 4, and virtually destroyed the city, along with many other cities in about a 200 mile radius. Prove it, Mr. Moore. Prove that this hurricane should be renamed Hurricane Bush due to the fact he created it, and I'll agree with you, Mr. Moore. Oh and, no, I don't want to discuss this later, Micheal Moore. I want to argue with you now.

You know damn well that Moore is reffering quite frankly to the feeble efforts of the Fedral Government in terms of disaster relief.
Moore isnt saying Bush conjured up a hurricane and you damn well know it.
To actually insinuate that is childish on your part, and you arent even making the pretense of being objective.
Shame on you.




Okay, so now, in addition to saying Bush created it, you are also saying that he is so stupid that he won't send help. First of all, Bush got degrees from Harvard and Yale.

Yes he did, he skated by with a "c" average.
Good thing his father was director of the CIA at the time eh?

. Second, we are talking about an area that is completely devastated from the southwest coast of Mississippi to Mobile, AL. That's a huge area to help out, not to mention getting shot at by some psychopath when you are trying to rescue people. Everyone, including Bush, would agree that if we could save everyone and rebuild the area in one day, we would. But, that is not the case, as there is almost complete chaos down in New Orleans, making it tough to save people without you, them, or others getting hurt or killed.

Perhaps you may have heard the news about a group of LSU students who were disgusted about the bungled rescue efforts, and filled up thier two-wheel drive Hundai with bottled water, and drove down to NO?

Seems they stole some Press badges, and went down to Bourbon street,where the National Guard claimed they themselves couldnt get to...
Well, they made it, and ended up rescuing 7 people, including others that they gave water and food to.

So, maybe Bush wasnt doing all he could do to help them, if a group of kids can get to help people in a two-wheel drive Hundai?


Okay, now you are also bashing relief agencies, which I know are doing a helluva lot more than you are.

Show me precisely where he bashes charities like The Red Cross, or the Salvation Army.

Second, I don't think many people would turn to you to see how to help. Those that do, are the ones that don't know who to trust, because if they donated money to you to get to the victims of Hurricane Katrina, you would probably buy 10 full-racks of ribs at Chili's or Applebee's with that money.

You are a sad and petty person.
You hate Moore becuase he says things about your beloved President, that just may be true, and you hate him for it.
Simply becuase you disagree with what he says, doesnt mean you can now, or ever would do any better.



First of all, "Mr. Bush" has a title: The President of The United States. I don't care if you wish the man would fall off a cliff, he has a title, and you respect that position he has.

When Bush shows me that he respects meor the american people , I will gladly do the same for him.


. Second, Cindy Sheehan is not a qualified person to go and rescue people. It has to be done by professionals who know what they are doing and how to negotiate with psychopaths. Her group isn't too reliable either. They could get themselves killed, or others. Rescuing must be done by professionals.

Bullshit.

See above.

Rescuing is done by whomever wishes to help.
The more the better.



this part is actually good: Donate supplies, send money... But don't encourage people who don't know what they are doing to go down there. Just stick with the shipping and donating.

People should help, any way they can.

Period.






he would insult Bush again. Also, the Bush Administration is doing as much as they can. Don't call them incompetent, because I sure as hell don't know what you have done for the victims of Hurricane Katrina.

Again, its Moore..what did you expect?

As for Bush, no he isnt doing everything he really can (could).
Consider this:

In Thailand, relief aid was dropped in three days.

In NO, it took over five days.
More for other parts.




Look for my post earlier on this thread.

It asked questions like "Why do you care what the political motivations behind Moores attempts to help are?"
Who cares WHY hes doing it...the fact is people need help, and he wants to help them.

That should be enough for you.

But sadly, you cant even lay off a person with such different ideals for ONE minute.
No, you immediately have to rip on him for doing this.

Moore rips on Bush becuase Bush is an important man, who many feel is doing a horrible job at it.
Moore is an entertainer, and if you dont like what he says in his best selling books, or his award winning movies..you have the option of not watching, or reading them.

We dont have the option of not paying attention to Bush.
Not realistically.

Again, the bottom line that Moore is trying to help some people who desperately need it.
Im positive thats more than you or I have done, so whats the issue here?

Why not let him just do what he thinks he needs to do?

Do the people at the top ever take responsibility in your world?
Yeah. But only when their democrats.

-snip- You know damn well that Moore is reffering quite frankly to the feeble efforts of the Fedral Government in terms of disaster relief.
Moore isnt saying Bush conjured up a hurricane and you damn well know it.
To actually insinuate that is childish on your part, and you arent even making the pretense of being objective.
Shame on you.

Just where in this quote is Moore referring to 'the feeble efforts'?

There is much to be said and done about the manmade annihilation of New Orleans, caused NOT by a hurricane but by the very specific decisions made by the Bush administration in the past four and a half years. Do not listen to anyone who says we can discuss all this later. No, we can't. Our country is in an immediate state of vulnerability. More hurricanes and other disasters are on the way, and a lazy bunch of self-satisfied lunatics are still running the show.

From the arrangement of the words in the above sentence, it reads very much like Moore is blaming the hurricane on Bush and his administration. I mean, "Manmade annihilation"? How is a hurricane manmade? "Caused NOT by the hurricane but by the very specific decisions made by the Bush administration in the past four and a half years"? Just how have Bush's policies caused this hurricane?

From the arrangement of the words in the above sentence, it reads very much like Moore is blaming the hurricane on Bush and his administration. I mean, "Manmade annihilation"? How is a hurricane manmade? "Caused NOT by the hurricane but by the very specific decisions made by the Bush administration in the past four and a half years"? Just how have Bush's policies caused this hurricane?

The central thrust of Moores article is to help the needy. Second, he berates the government for its woeful and shameful response to the hurricane. Any reference to the hurricane doing more damage than it might otherwise have done, is a comment on Senor Brush's herculean efforts to do nothing to ease global warming. Most scientific commentators believe that such 'acts of god' like hurricanes are getting bigger and more frequent due to the warmer air, land and sea.