NationStates Jolt Archive

Here is the timeline of Bushs deliberate failure to save a cultural gem of a city from TheRandiRhodesShow.Com:

Friday, August 26
GOV. KATHLEEN BLANCO DECLARES STATE OF EMERGENCY IN LOUISIANA: [Office of the Governor]

GULF COAST STATES REQUEST TROOP ASSISTANCE FROM PENTAGON: At a 9/1 press conference, Lt. Gen. Russel Honoré, commander, Joint Task Force Katrina, said that the Gulf States began the process of requesting additional forces on Friday, 8/26. [DOD]

Saturday, August 27
5AM — KATRINA UPGRADED TO CATEGORY 3 HURRICANE [CNN]

GOV. BLANCO ASKS BUSH TO DECLARE FEDERAL STATE OF EMERGENCY IN LOUISIANA: “I have determined that this incident is of such severity and magnitude that effective response is beyond the capabilities of the State and affected local governments, and that supplementary Federal assistance is necessary to save lives, protect property, public health, and safety, or to lessen or avert the threat of a disaster.” [Office of the Governor]

FEDERAL EMERGENCY DECLARED, DHS AND FEMA GIVEN FULL AUTHORITY TO RESPOND TO KATRINA: “Specifically, FEMA is authorized to identify, mobilize, and provide at its discretion, equipment and resources necessary to alleviate the impacts of the emergency.” [White House]

Sunday, August 28
2AM – KATRINA UPGRADED TO CATEGORY 4 HURRICANE [CNN]

7AM – KATRINA UPGRADED TO CATEGORY 5 HURRICANE [CNN]

MORNING — LOUISIANA NEWSPAPER SIGNALS LEVEES MAY GIVE: “Forecasters Fear Levees Won’t Hold Katrina”: “Forecasters feared Sunday afternoon that storm driven waters will lap over the New Orleans levees when monster Hurricane Katrina pushes past the Crescent City tomorrow.” [Lafayette Daily Advertiser]

9:30 AM — MAYOR NAGIN ISSUES FIRST EVER MANDATORY EVACUATION OF NEW ORLEANS: “We’re facing the storm most of us have feared,” said Nagin. “This is going to be an unprecedented event.” [Times-Picayune]

4PM – NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE ISSUES SPECIAL HURRICANE WARNING: In the event of a category 4 or 5 hit, “Most of the area will be uninhabitable for weeks, perhaps longer. … At least one-half of well-constructed homes will have roof and wall failure. All gabled roofs will fail, leaving those homes severely damaged or destroyed. … Power outages will last for weeks. … Water shortages will make human suffering incredible by modern standards.” [National Weather Service]

AFTERNOON — BUSH, BROWN, CHERTOFF WARNED OF LEVEE FAILURE BY NATIONAL HURRICANE CENTER DIRECTOR: Dr. Max Mayfield, director of the National Hurricane Center: “‘We were briefing them way before landfall. … It’s not like this was a surprise. We had in the advisories that the levee could be topped.’” [Times-Picayune; St. Petersburg Times]

LATE PM – REPORTS OF WATER TOPPLING OVER LEVEE: “Waves crashed atop the exercise path on the Lake Pontchartrain levee in Kenner early Monday as Katrina churned closer.” [Times-Picayune]

APPROXIMATELY 30,000 EVACUEES GATHER AT SUPERDOME WITH ROUGHLY 36 HOURS WORTH OF FOOD [Times-Picayune]

Monday, August 29
7AM – KATRINA MAKES LANDFALL AS A CATEGORY 4 HURRICANE [CNN]

8AM – MAYOR NAGIN REPORTS THAT WATER IS FLOWING OVER LEVEE: “I’ve gotten reports this morning that there is already water coming over some of the levee systems. In the lower ninth ward, we’ve had one of our pumping stations to stop operating, so we will have significant flooding, it is just a matter of how much.” [NBC’s “Today Show”]

MORNING — BUSH CALLS SECRETARY CHERTOFF TO DISCUSS IMMIGRATION: “I spoke to Mike Chertoff today — he’s the head of the Department of Homeland Security. I knew people would want me to discuss this issue [immigration], so we got us an airplane on — a telephone on Air Force One, so I called him. I said, are you working with the governor? He said, you bet we are.” [White House]

MORNING – BUSH SHARES BIRTHDAY CAKE PHOTO-OP WITH SEN. JOHN MCCAIN [White House]

11AM — BUSH VISITS ARIZONA RESORT TO PROMOTE MEDICARE DRUG BENEFIT: “This new bill I signed says, if you’re a senior and you like the way things are today, you’re in good shape, don’t change. But, by the way, there’s a lot of different options for you. And we’re here to talk about what that means to our seniors.” [White House]

LATE MORNING – LEVEE BREACHED: “A large section of the vital 17th Street Canal levee, where it connects to the brand new ‘hurricane proof’ Old Hammond Highway bridge, gave way late Monday morning in Bucktown after Katrina’s fiercest winds were well north.” [Times-Picayune]

11:30AM — MICHAEL BROWN FINALLY REQUESTS THAT DHS DISPATCH 1,000 EMPLOYEES TO REGION, GIVES THEM TWO DAYS TO ARRIVE: “Brown’s memo to Chertoff described Katrina as ‘this near catastrophic event’ but otherwise lacked any urgent language. The memo politely ended, ‘Thank you for your consideration in helping us to meet our responsibilities.’” [AP]

2PM — BUSH TRAVELS TO CALIFORNIA SENIOR CENTER TO DISCUSS MEDICARE DRUG BENEFIT: “We’ve got some folks up here who are concerned about their Social Security or Medicare. Joan Geist is with us. … I could tell — she was looking at me when I first walked in the room to meet her, she was wondering whether or not old George W. is going to take away her Social Security check.” [White House]

9PM — RUMSFELD ATTENDS SAN DIEGO PADRES BASEBALL GAME: Rumsfeld “joined Padres President John Moores in the owner’s box…at Petco Park.” [Editor & Publisher]

Tuesday, August 30
9AM – BUSH SPEAKS ON IRAQ AT NAVAL BASE CORONADO [White House]

MIDDAY – CHERTOFF FINALLY BECOMES AWARE THAT LEVEE HAS FAILED: “It was on Tuesday that the levee–may have been overnight Monday to Tuesday–that the levee started to break. And it was midday Tuesday that I became aware of the fact that there was no possibility of plugging the gap and that essentially the lake was going to start to drain into the city.” [Meet the Press, 9/4/05]

PENTAGON CLAIMS THERE ARE ENOUGH NATIONAL GUARD TROOPS IN REGION: “Pentagon spokesman Lawrence Di Rita said the states have adequate National Guard units to handle the hurricane needs.” [WWL-TV]

MASS LOOTING REPORTED, SECURITY SHORTAGE CITED: “The looting is out of control. The French Quarter has been attacked,” Councilwoman Jackie Clarkson said. “We’re using exhausted, scarce police to control looting when they should be used for search and rescue while we still have people on rooftops.” [AP]

U.S.S. BATAAN SITS OFF SHORE, VIRTUALLY UNUSED: “The USS Bataan, a 844-foot ship designed to dispatch Marines in amphibious assaults, has helicopters, doctors, hospital beds, food and water. It also can make its own water, up to 100,000 gallons a day. And it just happened to be in the Gulf of Mexico when Katrina came roaring ashore. The Bataan rode out the storm and then followed it toward shore, awaiting relief orders. Helicopter pilots flying from its deck were some of the first to begin plucking stranded New Orleans residents. But now the Bataan’s hospital facilities, including six operating rooms and beds for 600 patients, are empty.” [Chicago Tribune]

3PM – PRESIDENT BUSH PLAYS GUITAR WITH COUNTRY SINGER MARK WILLIS [AP]

BUSH RETURNS TO CRAWFORD FOR FINAL NIGHT OF VACATION [AP]

Wednesday, August 31
TENS OF THOUSANDS TRAPPED IN SUPERDOME; CONDITIONS DETERIORATE: “A 2-year-old girl slept in a pool of urine. Crack vials littered a restroom. Blood stained the walls next to vending machines smashed by teenagers. ‘We pee on the floor. We are like animals,’ said Taffany Smith, 25, as she cradled her 3-week-old son, Terry. … By Wednesday, it had degenerated into horror. … At least two people, including a child, have been raped. At least three people have died, including one man who jumped 50 feet to his death, saying he had nothing left to live for. There is no sanitation. The stench is overwhelming.”" [Los Angeles Times, 9/1/05]

PRESIDENT BUSH FINALLY ORGANIZES TASK FORCE TO COORDINATE FEDERAL RESPONSE: Bush says on Tuesday he will “fly to Washington to begin work…with a task force that will coordinate the work of 14 federal agencies involved in the relief effort.” [New York Times, 8/31/05]

JEFFERSON PARISH EMERGENCY DIRECTOR SAYS FOOD AND WATER SUPPLY GONE: “Director Walter Maestri: FEMA and national agencies not delivering the help nearly as fast as it is needed.” [WWL-TV]

80,000 BELIEVED STRANDED IN NEW ORLEANS: Former Mayor Sidney Barthelemy “estimated 80,000 were trapped in the flooded city and urged President Bush to send more troops.” [Reuters]

3,000 STRANDED AT CONVENTION CENTER WITHOUT FOOD OR WATER: “With 3,000 or more evacuees stranded at the convention center — and with no apparent contingency plan or authority to deal with them — collecting a body was no one’s priority. … Some had been at the convention center since Tuesday morning but had received no food, water or instructions.” [Times-Picayune]

5PM — BUSH GIVES FIRST MAJOR ADDRESS ON KATRINA: “Nothing about the president’s demeanor… — which seemed casual to the point of carelessness — suggested that he understood the depth of the current crisis.” [New York Times]

8:00PM – CONDOLEEZZA RICE TAKES IN A BROADWAY SHOW: “On Wednesday night, Secretary Rice was booed by some audience members at ‘Spamalot!, the Monty Python musical at the Shubert, when the lights went up after the performance.” [New York Post, 9/2/05]

9PM — FEMA DIRECTOR BROWN CLAIMS SURPRISE OVER SIZE OF STORM: “I must say, this storm is much much bigger than anyone expected.” [CNN]

Thursday, September 1
8AM — BUSH CLAIMS NO ONE EXPECTED LEVEES TO BREAK: “I don’t think anybody anticipated the breach of the levees.” [Washington Post]

CONDOLEEZZA RICE VISITS U.S. OPEN: “Rice, [in New York] on three days’ vacation to shop and see the U.S. Open, hitting some balls with retired champ Monica Seles at the Indoor Tennis Club at Grand Central.” [New York Post]

STILL NO COMMAND AND CONTROL ESTABLISHED: Terry Ebbert, New Orleans Homeland Security Director: “This is a national emergency. This is a national disgrace. FEMA has been here three days, yet there is no command and control. We can send massive amounts of aid to tsunami victims, but we can’t bail out the city of New Orleans.” [Fox News]

2PM — MAYOR NAGIN ISSUES “DESPERATE SOS” TO FEDERAL GOVERNMENT: “This is a desperate SOS. Right now we are out of resources at the convention centre and don’t anticipate enough buses. We need buses. Currently the convention centre is unsanitary and unsafe and we’re running out of supplies.” [Guardian, 9/2/05]

2PM — MICHAEL BROWN CLAIMS NOT TO HAVE HEARD OF REPORTS OF VIOLENCE: “I’ve had no reports of unrest, if the connotation of the word unrest means that people are beginning to riot, or you know, they’re banging on walls and screaming and hollering or burning tires or whatever. I’ve had no reports of that.” [CNN]

NEW ORLEANS “DESCEND[S] INTO ANARCHY”: “Storm victims were raped and beaten, fights and fires broke out, corpses lay out in the open, and rescue helicopters and law enforcement officers were shot at as flooded-out New Orleans descended into anarchy Thursday. ‘This is a desperate SOS,’ the mayor said.” [AP]

CONDOLEEZZA RICE GOES SHOE SHOPPING: “Just moments ago at the Ferragamo on 5th Avenue, Condoleeza Rice was seen spending several thousands of dollars on some nice, new shoes (we’ve confirmed this, so her new heels will surely get coverage from the WaPo’s Robin Givhan). A fellow shopper, unable to fathom the absurdity of Rice’s timing, went up to the Secretary and reportedly shouted, ‘How dare you shop for shoes while thousands are dying and homeless!’” [Gawker]

MICHAEL BROWN FINALLY LEARNS OF EVACUEES IN CONVENTION CENTER: “We learned about that (Thursday), so I have directed that we have all available resources to get that convention center to make sure that they have the food and water and medical care that they need.” [CNN]

Friday, September 2
ROVE-LED CAMPAIGN TO BLAME LOCAL OFFICIALS BEGINS: “Under the command of President Bush’s two senior political advisers, the White House rolled out a plan…to contain the political damage from the administration’s response to Hurricane Katrina.” President Bush’s comments from the Rose Garden Friday morning formed “the start of this campaign.” [New York Times, 9/5/05]

9:35AM — BUSH PRAISES MICHAEL BROWN: “Brownie, you’re doing a heck of a job.” [White House, 9/2/05]

10 AM — PRESIDENT BUSH STAGES PHOTO-OP “BRIEFING”: Coast Guard helicopters and crew diverted to act as backdrop for President Bush’s photo-op.

BUSH VISIT GROUNDS FOOD AID: “Three tons of food ready for delivery by air to refugees in St. Bernard Parish and on Algiers Point sat on the Crescent City Connection bridge Friday afternoon as air traffic was halted because of President Bush’s visit to New Orleans, officials said.” [Times-Picayune]

LEVEE REPAIR WORK ORCHESTRATED FOR PRESIDENT’S VISIT: Sen. Mary Landrieu, 9/3: “Touring this critical site yesterday with the President, I saw what I believed to be a real and significant effort to get a handle on a major cause of this catastrophe. Flying over this critical spot again this morning, less than 24 hours later, it became apparent that yesterday we witnessed a hastily prepared stage set for a Presidential photo opportunity; and the desperately needed resources we saw were this morning reduced to a single, lonely piece of equipment.” [Sen. Mary Landrieu]

BUSH USES 50 FIREFIGHTERS AS PROPS IN DISASTER AREA PHOTO-OP: A group of 1,000 firefighters convened in Atlanta to volunteer with the Katrina relief efforts. Of those, “a team of 50 Monday morning quickly was ushered onto a flight headed for Louisiana. The crew’s first assignment: to stand beside President Bush as he tours devastated areas.” [Salt Lake Tribune; Reuters]

3PM — BUSH “SATISFIED WITH THE RESPONSE”: “I am satisfied with the response. I am not satisfied with all the results.” [AP]

Saturday, September 3
SENIOR BUSH ADMINISTRATION OFFICIAL LIES TO WASHINGTON POST, CLAIMS GOV. BLANCO NEVER DECLARED STATE OF EMERGENCY: The Post reported in their Sunday edition “As of Saturday, Blanco still had not declared a state of emergency, the senior Bush official said.” They were forced to issue a correction hours later. [Washington Post, 9/4/05]

9AM — BUSH BLAMES STATE AND LOCAL OFFICIALS: “[T]he magnitude of responding to a crisis over a disaster area that is larger than the size of Great Britain has created tremendous problems that have strained state and local capabilities. The result is that many of our citizens simply are not getting the help they need.” [White House, 9/3/05]

and the icing on the cake:

TalkingPointsMemo is reporting that the former head of FEMA, Joe Allbaugh, may stand to profit from the catastrophe in the Gulf region through his various lobbying efforts. President Bush tapped Allbaugh to head FEMA after he served as Bush's campaign manager during the 2000 election. He headed FEMA until March 2003 just as the U.S. was launching its invasion of Iraq. Then Allbaugh helped form a lobbying firm called New Bridge Strategies in order to help clients "take advantage of business opportunities in the Middle East following the conclusion of the U.S.-led war in Iraq." New Bridge Strategies was also formed by several top executives from the lobbying firm then known as Barbour Griffith & Rogers. The head of that firm was Haley Barbour who is now the Republican governor of Mississippi. Earlier this year Joe Allbaugh signed on as a lobbyist for Halliburton subsidiary KBR in order to "educate the congressional and executive branch on defense, disaster relief and homeland security issues." Just last week the federal government announced that Halliburton would be hired to repair the Gulf Coast military bases damaged by Katrina. And now the Washington Post is reporting that Allbaugh is also helping Louisiana "coordinate the private-sector response to the storm."

Indesputable proof that this "Bush Sucks" nonsense is getting really old.

Indesputable proof that this "Bush Sucks" nonsense is getting really old.
get used to it cause unless hes impeached for treason we have 3 more years of him killing people for corporate greed

Indesputable proof that this "Bush Sucks" nonsense is getting really old.

I here ya. Has anyone ever been swayed by these rants?

Even without the dirty deals conspiracy stuff, the timeline is pretty damning on its own.

Even without the dirty deals conspiracy stuff, the timeline is pretty damning on its own.

Sure, this one does. I've seen others that don't portray him as satan incarnate.

I think "Bush Sucks" is getting old too. So why isn't he gone!?

Sure, this one does. I've seen others that don't portray him as satan incarnate.


those other timelines must try pretty hard not to do so then :p

I think "Bush Sucks" is getting old too. So why isn't he gone!?

Oh...It'll only be a matter of time...

When? Mydunno...

Yes, this is bad. But at the same time, all of the senators were still on their vacations, the mayor was refusing to use school buses to evacuate people because he didn't want to pay them overtime, and the Governor had no plan of action in place other than to beg the Federals for help. Everyone was at fault in this, and the city/state governments were the worst.

Senator Landrieu secured $7.1 million for levee upgrades (half of the $14.25 needed) but did nothing to redivert the $7 million being spent on the study of subterranean Formosan termites in the NO area to that project.

Even without the dirty deals conspiracy stuff, the timeline is pretty damning on its own.

Unfortunately the whole Bush Administration is like a season of The X Files. No matter how damning the evidence is, the general populace will not find such observations to be an impediment to their continued worship and defense of Il Duhce Bush.

With all the coast lines abandoned and the people dead or homeless, the Resort Companies can now buy up the land cheap. And I bet those who do stay will have and Imminent Domain dropped in their laps. Its another Win for Big Business. We know who wears the pants in this Government. Fortune 500 Companies.

those other timelines must try pretty hard not to do so then :p

:) Oh, he's still got a tail and horns, he's just not the only devil in the place.

I think "Bush Sucks" is getting old too. So why isn't he gone!?


When he actually does something impeachable, and you can prove it beyond a reasonable doubt, then he will be gone :)

Thursday, September 1
8AM — BUSH CLAIMS NO ONE EXPECTED LEVEES TO BREAK: “I don’t think anybody anticipated the breach of the levees.” [Washington Post]


I'm not surprised at all. He's the most ignorant president we've ever head, and considering the way he was before the Iraq war, I'm quite certain he's deaf.

I think "Bush Sucks" is getting old too. So why isn't he gone!?
Well the reason he got voted in my County is that the religious freaks thought Gore was the Ant-Christ.
(Really I'm not joking I wish I was but I'm not)
And there are alot of them down here that will eat whatever bull he speaks.

-snip-




I have a hard time seeing how you radical libs maintain his stupidity while accusing him of brilliantly diabolical plans only an evil genius could concot....and considering he coordinated this activity perfectly with the hurricane....that's a lot of talent :eek:

Well the reason he got voted in my County is that the religious freaks thought Gore was the Ant-Christ.
(Really I'm not joking I wish I was but I'm not)
And there are alot of them down here that will eat whatever bull he speaks.


This quote is the real reason he got elected: Nobody likes to listen to a snobby liberal claim that people of faith are freaks and mindless sheep following the shepherd Bush.

Sure, this one does. I've seen others that don't portray him as satan incarnate.


It is? let me ask you....how many times do you use CNN to get your weather information?

I watched the weather channel ALL during the night Katrina was NEVER a cat 3 ever in its lifetime other then when it made landfall..

overnight it went from a cat 1 to a cat 4 then to a 5 early the next morning..

This quote is the real reason he got elected: Nobody likes to listen to a snobby liberal claim that people of faith are freaks and mindless sheep following the shepherd Bush.

But Bush's track record speaks a lot more clearly than any Bible-Bashing can ever do. Yet the Busheviks continue to ignore the damage he has inflicted through his indifference to human suffering not to mention the nepotistic appointments he made. A Horse Club President (and a bad one at that) placed in charge of FEMA? Good Lord.

:rolleyes:

This quote is the real reason he got elected: Nobody likes to listen to a snobby liberal claim that people of faith are freaks and mindless sheep following the shepherd Bush.

exactly...

A lot of people would rather vote for a idiot like bush over a pompous prick. I am not saying Gore or Kerry were...they seemed like decent guys, but their supporters fucked them over more then anything.

If i run as a democrat my first job would be to tell my supporters to shut the fuck up because they are the real problem with the democratic party not the party itself.

http://img289.imageshack.us/img289/9392/fedup9yr.jpg

Sooo, because I can dispute your so-called indisputable proof does that make you naught more than a dirty stinking troll?

First of all, they did not think that the levees would be breached, especially not in the sections they did. They knew there would be overflow but not that there would be a breach. Your own quotes ironically confirm this.

“Forecasters Fear Levees Won’t Hold Katrina”: “Forecasters feared Sunday afternoon that storm driven waters will lap over the New Orleans levees when monster Hurricane Katrina pushes past the Crescent City tomorrow.”
....
Dr. Max Mayfield, director of the National Hurricane Center: “‘We were briefing them way before landfall. … It’s not like this was a surprise. We had in the advisories that the levee could be topped.’” [Times-Picayune; St. Petersburg Times]
....
“A large section of the vital 17th Street Canal levee, where it connects to the brand new ‘hurricane proof’ Old Hammond Highway bridge, gave way late Monday morning in Bucktown after Katrina’s fiercest winds were well north.” [Times-Picayune]

There is a large difference between expecting overflow from the levees and assuming that finished parts of the levees would break. Unfortunately your titling which for some reason is ALL IN CAPS, POSSIBLY BECAUSE OF A BROKEN KEYBOARD, does not reflect the reality of the situation.

What Condoleezza Rice is expected to do I'm not exactly sure, but she appears to be somewhat prominent in you diatribe. The same goes for Rumsfeld


Nagin had over 350 buses directly at his disposal that were CITY-OWNED and another 200-300 buses that he could have commandeered to evacuate poor people who didn't have the means to do so, but for some reason he didn't, and not two days later he's screaming for federal buses to come in.


Blanco doesn't know how to delegate at all and is forcing waaaay too many relief effort decisions to go through her. As well she is blocking federal attempts at relief and retaining command of her Nat Guard troops, which means command decisions are split and people can't properly coordinate.


I also fail to see how Bush personally is all that involved. You can argue that he screwed up by appointing Chertoff but other than that he is not that culpable for the screw-ups going on. Chertoff has screwed up of course, but pretty much all levels have fucked up, city and state actually more so than federal.

I also fail to see how Bush personally is all that involved.

We put our trust and faith in the handleing of this nation into the hands of our president. Given that he cannot do everything himself, he appoints people that can. He places his faith, his reputation into the hands of his appointees. When his appointees fail, he fails. Our trust in his ability to delegate and his reputation become questioned.

I here ya. Has anyone ever been swayed by these rants?
I have

Sure, this one does. I've seen others that don't portray him as satan incarnate.
of course not --hes the son :rolleyes:

We put our trust and faith in the handleing of this nation into the hands of our president. Given that he cannot do everything himself, he appoints people that can. He places his faith, his reputation into the hands of his appointees. When his appointees fail, he fails. Our trust in his ability to delegate and his reputation become questioned.

I lost my faith in this entire government in 2000. That marked then end of the bipartisan era, and so anything now is just a byproduct of the strongarm and trench warfare tactics of the Republican majority and Democratic minority in Congress, and their battles with the Administration.

With all the coast lines abandoned and the people dead or homeless, the Resort Companies can now buy up the land cheap. And I bet those who do stay will have and Imminent Domain dropped in their laps. Its another Win for Big Business. We know who wears the pants in this Government. Fortune 500 Companies.
clearly

clearly

Money's always got the ear of the government, no matter the party; the only problem is, the parties can no longer hold each other in check and they're out of control. This is a problem of hubris and imbalance of power more than anything.

When he actually does something impeachable, and you can prove it beyond a reasonable doubt, then he will be gone :)
he already has but since the treason party holds the majority in congress there wont be any hearings until democracy gets restored to America in 06

When I read this synopsis [and its attendant thesis] my eyes rolled heavenward with such velocity that my optic nerves nearly strained themselves to their limit. Fortunately they didn't break, or I'd be patting the floor for them as we speak.

A lot of people are complaining about the Katrina aftermath, and I have yet to weigh in on this, interestingly enough. I decided to wait and see what was going on before leaping to conclusions like the vast majority of....well, everyone else. My favorite is the idea that the evil Republican Right [and don't get me wrong--most of them are evil] sits huddled over a table in a smoky room wondering how they can exploit natural disasters. If our services are to be rendered competently, the rebuilding of New Orleans will be something of an economic boon anyway, provided a massive population crunch doesn't take place [which is possible].

A lot of people are complaining that our response was slow. Slow compared to what? Do we have some other frame of reference for shipping supplies into a hurricane-stricken city that sits below goddamn sea level in the first place? Does anyone complaining realize that the magnitude of aid provided in this country far surpasses the numbers possible anywhere else? Red Cross is nearing $400 million in donations--more than $1 for every man, woman and child in this country. And Americans are "selfish" and "conceited." Say nothing of volunteer hours and various donated items and labor for reconstruction efforts.

I think the folks in New Orleans had somewhat unrealistic expectations for the relief effort. Given the nature of the incident, it wasn't like they could park a national guard convoy right outside town and just wait out the storm. in order to mobilize perishable necessities one must first know [i]how much you need, which is also part of the reason why we didn't have C-130s over New Orleans within hours.

I don't doubt that everyone involved with this really is interested in getting this mess cleaned up: keeping New Orleans like this isn't good for anybody, no matter how rich you are.

I do not support President Bush by any stretch of the imagination: he's a filthy, statist bastard and I hate his ass muchly. I just think it's a teeeeeny bit of a stretch to blame this all on him. I almost get the feeling that Bush could do a 180 on abortion issues and the Left would follow suit just on principle. It seems that lying in opposition to the President is these peoples' political and philosophical axiomatic truth: they start from a distaste for the man and work backwards from there. It becomes painfully manifest when these people start blaming him for things like natural disasters and 9/11.

Well put, Melkor. I like the term "filthy, statist bastard", it's a perfect reflection of my feelings about him and the government elites in general.

I have a hard time seeing how you radical libs maintain his stupidity while accusing him of brilliantly diabolical plans only an evil genius could concot....and considering he coordinated this activity perfectly with the hurricane....that's a lot of talent :eek:
Bush is just the evil monkey--the brilliant diabolival plans all come from Darth Cheney and Turdblossom Rove

Sooo, because I can dispute your so-called indisputable proof does that make you naught more than a dirty stinking troll?

First of all, they did not think that the levees would be breached, especially not in the sections they did. They knew there would be overflow but not that there would be a breach. Your own quotes ironically confirm this.



There is a large difference between expecting overflow from the levees and assuming that finished parts of the levees would break. Unfortunately your titling which for some reason is ALL IN CAPS, POSSIBLY BECAUSE OF A BROKEN KEYBOARD, does not reflect the reality of the situation.

What Condoleezza Rice is expected to do I'm not exactly sure, but she appears to be somewhat prominent in you diatribe. The same goes for Rumsfeld


Nagin had over 350 buses directly at his disposal that were CITY-OWNED and another 200-300 buses that he could have commandeered to evacuate poor people who didn't have the means to do so, but for some reason he didn't, and not two days later he's screaming for federal buses to come in.


Blanco doesn't know how to delegate at all and is forcing waaaay too many relief effort decisions to go through her. As well she is blocking federal attempts at relief and retaining command of her Nat Guard troops, which means command decisions are split and people can't properly coordinate.


I also fail to see how Bush personally is all that involved. You can argue that he screwed up by appointing Chertoff but other than that he is not that culpable for the screw-ups going on. Chertoff has screwed up of course, but pretty much all levels have fucked up, city and state actually more so than federal.

. . .Just a question, but if you have no money, how exactly do you get gas for those buses? Because if I understand correctly, neither the state nor the city had anything in their coffers, nor were they being assisted by an outside logistical network for them to move those people to somewhere, so I don't clearly understand how they automatically become the culprits simply because of their failure to use buses.

Moreover, I'm curious to know why exactly the failure to use those buses (which, even assuming they carry 100 people apiece, far more than they really would, would get less than 10% of the people left behind) is that much greater than the failure on the National government's level to federalize the militia and move into preliminary positions like they did with Florida last year.

. . .Just a question, but if you have no money, how exactly do you get gas for those buses? Because if I understand correctly, neither the state nor the city had anything in their coffers, nor were they being assisted by an outside logistical network for them to move those people to somewhere, so I don't clearly understand how they automatically become the culprits simply because of their failure to use buses.
.

The mayor didn't want to pay the overtime! That state and city are so stunningly corrupt (one of the highest in the nation) that they don't have enough money because a lot of it is wasted, or squandered on reseraching Formosan termites in the New Orleans area,the money spent on which would have paid for the full levee upgrade.

President Bush is completely incompetent, and, considering he claimed to have learned about possible levee breaks 48 hours after I did, a liar as well.

Well put, Melkor. I like the term "filthy, statist bastard", it's a perfect reflection of my feelings about him and the government elites in general.
Thank you, I try. I like it too, I think it's catchy.

Oh, and by the way, I used to play ice hockey in Mentor :D

Money's always got the ear of the government, no matter the party; the only problem is, the parties can no longer hold each other in check and they're out of control. This is a problem of hubris and imbalance of power more than anything.
I know thats why I hate the corproate beast too

I here ya. Has anyone ever been swayed by these rants?

Not one bit. :) but then again I'm always open.

I know thats why I hate the corproate beast too
Might want to pawn your computer then ;)

Oh yeah, and that internet connection's gonna have to go too.

When I read this synopsis [and its attendant thesis] my eyes rolled heavenward with such velocity that my optic nerves nearly strained themselves to their limit. Fortunately they didn't break, or I'd be patting the floor for them as we speak.

A lot of people are complaining about the Katrina aftermath, and I have yet to weigh in on this, interestingly enough. I decided to wait and see what was going on before leaping to conclusions like the vast majority of....well, everyone else. My favorite is the idea that the evil Republican Right [and don't get me wrong--most of them are evil] sits huddled over a table in a smoky room wondering how they can exploit natural disasters. If our services are to be rendered competently, the rebuilding of New Orleans will be something of an economic boon anyway, provided a massive population crunch doesn't take place [which is possible].

A lot of people are complaining that our response was slow. Slow compared to what? Do we have some other frame of reference for shipping supplies into a hurricane-stricken city that sits below goddamn sea level in the first place? Does anyone complaining realize that the magnitude of aid provided in this country far surpasses the numbers possible anywhere else? Red Cross is nearing $400 million in donations--more than $1 for every man, woman and child in this country. And Americans are "selfish" and "conceited." Say nothing of volunteer hours and various donated items and labor for reconstruction efforts.

I think the folks in New Orleans had somewhat unrealistic expectations for the relief effort. Given the nature of the incident, it wasn't like they could park a national guard convoy right outside town and just wait out the storm. in order to mobilize perishable necessities one must first know [i]how much you need, which is also part of the reason why we didn't have C-130s over New Orleans within hours.

I don't doubt that everyone involved with this really is interested in getting this mess cleaned up: keeping New Orleans like this isn't good for anybody, no matter how rich you are.

I do not support President Bush by any stretch of the imagination: he's a filthy, statist bastard and I hate his ass muchly. I just think it's a teeeeeny bit of a stretch to blame this all on him. I almost get the feeling that Bush could do a 180 on abortion issues and the Left would follow suit just on principle. It seems that lying in opposition to the President is these peoples' political and philosophical axiomatic truth: they start from a distaste for the man and work backwards from there. It becomes painfully manifest when these people start blaming him for things like natural disasters and 9/11.
funny you should bring that up--Bush did allow 911 too cause he needed an excuse to invade a helpless unarmed nation

Thank you, I try. I like it too, I think it's catchy.
Oh, and by the way, I used to play ice hockey in Mentor :D

No kidding! Where did you play in the city?

Well put, Melkor. I like the term "filthy, statist bastard", it's a perfect reflection of my feelings about him and the government elites in general.
we hafta get blood money outta politics

funny you should bring that up--Bush did allow 911 too cause he needed an excuse to invade a helpless unarmed nation
You're really grasping at straws here. The only people who are currently contending this are radical nutcases that somehow talked some hapless son of a bitch into giving him a web address. This viewpoint is nowhere near credible in the real world.

EDIT: Now that I think of it, Bush's 'excuse' for invading Iraq was flimsy enough, even with 9/11. It's never been a staggeringly popular war: if the people had thought Iraq had something to do with it, public support would have been comparable to what we saw in Afghanistan.

Furthermore, there's probably a bit less strategic value to Iraq than you might think. I happen to believe that Bush invaded Iraq because he really does think it's the right thing to do: it's not, but I think Bush is genuinely convinced that his motives are pure and cannot understand the opposition.

The mayor didn't want to pay the overtime! That state and city are so stunningly corrupt (one of the highest in the nation) that they don't have enough money because a lot of it is wasted, or squandered on reseraching Formosan termites in the New Orleans area,the money spent on which would have paid for the full levee upgrade.

Southern politics has always been about obscene corruption. Not to attempt to change the subject, however, but this is beside the point. Ravenshrike was asking why weren't the buses used. My question is "Where exactly were they supposed to take these people?" Even supposing the buses were used, it's not exactly like you can simply drop them off in Baton Rouge or on the Texas border and say "Sucks to be you." Of course, if you ask that question, it leads right back to the question of where was the federal government to coordinate the evacuation and relief effort.

Even supposing the buses were used, it's not exactly like you can simply drop them off in Baton Rouge or on the Texas border and say "Sucks to be you."
Isn't that kind of exactly what they are doing?

Might want to pawn your computer then ;)

Oh yeah, and that internet connection's gonna have to go too.
I use the tools of the enemy to fight it ;)

we hafta get blood money outta politics
Asking us to get money out of politics is like asking us to take flour out of cake.

I don't know what you mean by 'blood money,' since almost any form of exchange is viewed as illegitimate by some nutjob out there. I had a guy tell me once that I was 'initiating force' on the poor by depositing money into my savings account. I, conversely, tend to equate a negative term like 'blood money' as money that's ripped from my paycheck before I get it.

With all due respect, Rogolia, Gulf et al, if I had to choose between an idiot (http://www.hypocrisy.org/images/bush%20stupid%20face.jpg) and a snobbish prick (http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/images/38338000/jpg/_38338595_kerry150ap.jpg), I'd take the snobbish prick. I'm seeing absolutely nothing to vindicate choosing (and I'll use that last term as cavalierly as would a Bush insider, meh) idiocy over priggishness (which really would be a better descriptor than the phrase 'snobbish prick', I might add) to date.

Not a thing.

You're really grasping at straws here. The only people who are currently contending this are radical nutcases that somehow talked some hapless son of a bitch into giving him a web address. This viewpoint is nowhere near credible in the real world.

EDIT: Now that I think of it, Bush's 'excuse' for invading Iraq was flimsy enough, even with 9/11. It's never been a staggeringly popular war: if the people had thought Iraq had something to do with it, public support would have been comparable to what we saw in Afghanistan.

Furthermore, there's probably a bit less strategic value to Iraq than you might think. I happen to believe that Bush invaded Iraq because he really does think it's the right thing to do: it's not, but I think Bush is genuinely convinced that his motives are pure and cannot understand the opposition.
Bush is building permanent bases in Iraq--his ultimate goal is fullscale regional war and Iran is next on his menu

With all due respect, Rogolia, Gulf et al, if I had to choose between an idiot (http://www.hypocrisy.org/images/bush%20stupid%20face.jpg) and a snobbish prick (http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/images/38338000/jpg/_38338595_kerry150ap.jpg), I'd take the snobbish prick. I'm seeing absolutely nothing to vindicate choosing (and I'll use that last term as cavalierly as would a Bush insider, meh) idiocy over priggishness (which really would be a better descriptor than the phrase 'snobbish prick', I might add) to date.

Not a thing.

I'd rather have http://parallel.park.org/UnitedStates/bill-portrait.gif for a third term.

I use the tools of the enemy to fight it ;)
And they are conversely acheiving their own ends with the money you give them. Unless you happen to become some sort of phenominal breakthrough internet broadcasting tycoon, I would venture to say they'll do a better job with your money than you will with your time here. If the extent of your debating ability has already been demonstrated in full, they've probably got you beat.

Southern politics has always been about obscene corruption. Not to attempt to change the subject, however, but this is beside the point. Ravenshrike was asking why weren't the buses used. My question is "Where exactly were they supposed to take these people?" Even supposing the buses were used, it's not exactly like you can simply drop them off in Baton Rouge or on the Texas border and say "Sucks to be you." Of course, if you ask that question, it leads right back to the question of where was the federal government to coordinate the evacuation and relief effort.
to further prove that Bush had no intention of helping these people:

The New York Times is reported that two Navy helicopter pilots and their crews have been reprimanded after helping ferry 100 hurricane victims to safety last Tuesday. The Commander of the unit criticized them for taking part in the rescue at a time they were supposed to be delivering food and water to military bases along the Gulf Coast. Commander Michael Holdener defended the reprimand. He said "We all want to be the guys who rescue people. But they were told we have other missions we have to do right now and that is not the priority." The Commander then ordered a halt to civilian relief efforts. One of the Lieutenants who helped with the unauthorized rescue efforts, was taken out of the squadron's flying rotation and temporarily assigned to oversee a kennel designed to hold pets of service members.

Bush is building permanent bases in Iraq--his ultimate goal is fullscale regional war and Iran is next on his menu
Again, you're really falling on your face here. The US has permanent bases in Korea, the Philippenes, Germany, Iceland, and a slew of other countries.

This does not mean we're invading them.

Also, Bush won't have time to do more than get about ankle deep in Iran, if that's his intention. Thankfully, he only has a little more than 2 years left in office, which isn't really enough time to initiate a "fullscale regional war."

Furthermore, there's probably a bit less strategic value to Iraq than you might think. I happen to believe that Bush invaded Iraq because he really does think it's the right thing to do: it's not, but I think Bush is genuinely convinced that his motives are pure and cannot understand the opposition.

I am going to fuel a threadjack here, and say that I agree with you. While I still think that there are some warhawks (Wolfowitz, Bolton, Rumsfeld) who may be trying to further PNAC plans, I think that Bush truly believes the nonsense he has been spewing.

Asking us to get money out of politics is like asking us to take flour out of cake.

I don't know what you mean by 'blood money,' since almost any form of exchange is viewed as illegitimate by some nutjob out there. I had a guy tell me once that I was 'initiating force' on the poor by depositing money into my savings account. I, conversely, tend to equate a negative term like 'blood money' as money that's ripped from my paycheck before I get it.
I mean that money is paper blood

I am going to fuel a threadjack here, and say that I agree with you. While I still think that there are some warhawks (Wolfowitz, Bolton, Rumsfeld) who may be trying to further PNAC plans, I think that Bush truly believes the nonsense he has been spewing.
thats because hes an idiot

to further prove that Bush had no intention of helping these people:

The New York Times is reported that two Navy helicopter pilots and their crews have been reprimanded after helping ferry 100 hurricane victims to safety last Tuesday. The Commander of the unit criticized them for taking part in the rescue at a time they were supposed to be delivering food and water to military bases along the Gulf Coast. Commander Michael Holdener defended the reprimand. He said "We all want to be the guys who rescue people. But they were told we have other missions we have to do right now and that is not the priority." The Commander then ordered a halt to civilian relief efforts. One of the Lieutenants who helped with the unauthorized rescue efforts, was taken out of the squadron's flying rotation and temporarily assigned to oversee a kennel designed to hold pets of service members.

I'm wondering if I'm going to want the last thirty minutes of my life back, after reading this. I'm beginning to think my talents would be better put to use trying to convert my lava lamp to Scientology.

Those pilots were reprimanded because they contravened a direct order, and probably for consuming additiona fuel that had already been budgeted. Whenever an operation like this takes place, measurements are very exacting. In many instances, helicopters and other military aircraft are only filled with the fuel they'll need for any one mission and any deviations [flight plan, weight, etc] can cause unwanted budget variances, or [gasp!] a crash.

Their commanders know that there are people in New Orleans and they also know that people are working around the clock to help these folks. In order for such aid to take place, it must be rigorously planned and meticulously executed.

we hafta get blood money outta politics
Poor Cas. I only just met you but I already love you like a brother. You will never get blood money out of politics. If it wasn't for blood money there would be no politics.

And it seems you'll also never get pointless bickering out of these threads.

I think most of us agree on at least one point, to wit that there is not one elected official from president of the USA down to French Quarter dog catcher who did not FUCK THIS UP. So can we put that on the record and get past it already? Christ on a cracker, you all sound just like those morons doing their soundbites on tv.

Here's the deal: Just because *everybody* fucked up, that doesn't lessen the fact that Bush also fucked up. And yes, his fuck up is worse because, the mayor only affects the city, and the governor only affects the state, but the president and his cabinet and all his appointees affect the executive branch of the *nation's* government -- that's all of us in the US, kidlets. His/their fuck ups matter more. And second place goes to Congress -- second because their fuck ups take longer to hit and can sometimes be headed off. The executive branch shits into the fan faster.

I mean that money is paper blood
Oh Christ, not another one of these :headbang:

Oh Christ, not another one of these :headbang:

I make a living by killing and robbing panhandlers.

Poor Cas. I only just met you but I already love you like a brother. You will never get blood money out of politics. If it wasn't for blood money there would be no politics.

And it seems you'll also never get pointless bickering out of these threads.

I think most of us agree on at least one point, to wit that there is not one elected official from president of the USA down to French Quarter dog catcher who did not FUCK THIS UP. So can we put that on the record and get past it already? Christ on a cracker, you all sound just like those morons doing their soundbites on tv.

Here's the deal: Just because *everybody* fucked up, that doesn't lessen the fact that Bush also fucked up. And yes, his fuck up is worse because, the mayor only affects the city, and the governor only affects the state, but the president and his cabinet and all his appointees affect the executive branch of the *nation's* government -- that's all of us in the US, kidlets. His/their fuck ups matter more. And second place goes to Congress -- second because their fuck ups take longer to hit and can sometimes be headed off. The executive branch shits into the fan faster.
we could do it if we can get free elections

Oh Christ, not another one of these :headbang:
:confused:

Yeah, I think my work here is done.

EDIT: And CP, to clear up the confusion, just assume for simplicity that I'm your philosophical exact opposite. The link at the bottom of my signature should provide you with more information than I'll bet you'd be willing to read concerning said philosophy.

Furthermore, there's probably a bit less strategic value to Iraq than you might think. I happen to believe that Bush invaded Iraq because he really does think it's the right thing to do: it's not, but I think Bush is genuinely convinced that his motives are pure and cannot understand the opposition.

I am going to fuel a threadjack here, and say that I agree with you. While I still think that there are some warhawks (Wolfowitz, Bolton, Rumsfeld) who may be trying to further PNAC plans, I think that Bush truly believes the nonsense he has been spewing.

I just finished reading Rise of the Vulcans: The History of Bush's War Cabinet by James Mann, a book I have to read for a foreign policy class I'm starting in a couple of weeks. According to Mann, Paul Wolfowitz first started focusing on Iraq in the late 1970's. Initially, he had been considering the concequences of a Soviet invasion of the Persian Gulf area, which eventually turned into considering the concequences of any nation trying to take over the Persian Gulf area. It seemed to Wolfowitz that Iraq was the most likely to try and engage in such behavior. With the end of the Cold War, the initial Soviet threat was no longer an issue, so the focus fell entirely upon Iraq. Plans regarding the invasion and occupation of Iraq, with the goal of removing Saddam from power, were drawn up as early as 1997. The way Mann tells the story, George W. Bush had very little to do with any of this, as the attitudes and plans leading up to the invasion of Iraq have their beginnings as far back as the Nixon Administration with the careers of Wolfowitz, Armitage, Rumsfeld, Cheney, Powell, and Rice.

Poor Cas. I only just met you but I already love you like a brother. You will never get blood money out of politics. If it wasn't for blood money there would be no politics.

And it seems you'll also never get pointless bickering out of these threads.

I think most of us agree on at least one point, to wit that there is not one elected official from president of the USA down to French Quarter dog catcher who did not FUCK THIS UP. So can we put that on the record and get past it already? Christ on a cracker, you all sound just like those morons doing their soundbites on tv.

Here's the deal: Just because *everybody* fucked up, that doesn't lessen the fact that Bush also fucked up. And yes, his fuck up is worse because, the mayor only affects the city, and the governor only affects the state, but the president and his cabinet and all his appointees affect the executive branch of the *nation's* government -- that's all of us in the US, kidlets. His/their fuck ups matter more. And second place goes to Congress -- second because their fuck ups take longer to hit and can sometimes be headed off. The executive branch shits into the fan faster.
A bunch of you will probably jump on me for comlaining about bickering and then dumping blame on Bush, so let me clarify:

Blame goes to all levels of government - fed, state, and local - nearly equally. A few individuals deserve to be punished - severely - for failure to carry out their public duty. The rest deserve to be shamed for complacent "selective blindness" to a problem that everyone knew existed for many years. And even if they never read an engineering report, all they had to do was take in a Mardi Gras and watch the ships passing by ABOVE THEIR HEADS!! to know there was a risk. That's for Katrina.

My issue with Bush (and the whole team; I hate the man personally, but I often use his name as a shorthand for the whole administration) is for the future of this country. He has been claiming for 4 years that he has been getting the country prepared for another terrorist attack -- to prevent one and to save people if one happens. Hurricanes give some warning. Terrorists give none. Somebody out there explain to me, if he's got the government prepared to respond to a terrorist attack, why weren't they prepared for a hurricane?

And when you're done explaining that, tell me how long you'd be willing to wait in a bombed out city center train tunnel for the feds to come and rescue you?

It is? let me ask you....how many times do you use CNN to get your weather information?

I watched the weather channel ALL during the night Katrina was NEVER a cat 3 ever in its lifetime other then when it made landfall..

overnight it went from a cat 1 to a cat 4 then to a 5 early the next morning..
Someone's probably already mentioned this, and if so, sorry for the repeat, but I had to.

You can't go from a Cat 1 to a Cat 4 without being a Cat 2 and a Cat 3. It's a physical impossibility.

get used to it cause unless hes impeached for treason we have 3 more years of him killing people for corporate greed
Perhaps you should read your own Constitution so you can understand what treason truly is.

Here's the deal: Just because *everybody* fucked up, that doesn't lessen the fact that Bush also fucked up. And yes, his fuck up is worse because, the mayor only affects the city, and the governor only affects the state, but the president and his cabinet and all his appointees affect the executive branch of the *nation's* government -- that's all of us in the US, kidlets. His/their fuck ups matter more. And second place goes to Congress -- second because their fuck ups take longer to hit and can sometimes be headed off. The executive branch shits into the fan faster.
In this situation, his is not worse. He is responsible for the entire country, as you say - not just a city or state. The federal government must deal with internal and international affairs, whereas the mayor and governor only with their local areas. It is their responsibility, first and foremost, to ensure the operation goes as smoothly as possible in those areas. However, generally speaking, your conclusions on the Executive and Lesiglative branch are dead on.

we could do it if we can get free elections
So sweet -- an idealist! aww... No wonder they make you so paranoid sometimes. ;)

Free elections don't automatically mean clean elections. But that's not necessarily a bad thing. Think of politics as being like dog fighting. The corporations, special interests, etc., all show up with their vicious dogs in pinstriped suits, raring to go -- grrr-bark-bark. We need dogs of our own, just as vicious and well-trained, and on just as short a leash.

ADDITION: That's why I voted for Clinton twice -- sure he was a leg-humper and pissed all over, but he sure could chew the hell out of an opponent. (Down boy! Bad dog! Heel! :D )

So sweet -- an idealist! aww... No wonder they make you so paranoid sometimes. ;)

Free elections don't automatically mean clean elections. But that's not necessarily a bad thing. Think of politics as being like dog fighting. The corporations, special interests, etc., all show up with their vicious dogs in pinstriped suits, raring to go -- grrr-bark-bark. We need dogs of our own, just as vicious and well-trained, and on just as short a leash.

ADDITION: That's why I voted for Clinton twice -- sure he was a leg-humper and pissed all over, but he sure could chew the hell out of an opponent. (Down boy! Bad dog! Heel! :D )
Vox populi Vox Dei thats our dog :cool:
backed up with riots and civil disobedience and tax revolts when necessary

So sweet -- an idealist! aww... No wonder they make you so paranoid sometimes. ;)

Free elections don't automatically mean clean elections. But that's not necessarily a bad thing. Think of politics as being like dog fighting. The corporations, special interests, etc., all show up with their vicious dogs in pinstriped suits, raring to go -- grrr-bark-bark. We need dogs of our own, just as vicious and well-trained, and on just as short a leash.

ADDITION: That's why I voted for Clinton twice -- sure he was a leg-humper and pissed all over, but he sure could chew the hell out of an opponent. (Down boy! Bad dog! Heel! :D )
Ok, in a crisis situation, the number one thing to avoid, is to rearrange command lines. The reason is hopefully self evident.

The Bush administration may have fucked up badly, but to blame Bush himself seems irrelevant to me. What is it you people think he should have done? Grabbed command of everyone & everything by himself? I seriously doubt that would have improved the situation.

Anyway... About all that ideology shite, if you guys abandoned corporatism, maybe your politicians wouldn't have to be crooks to get elected. But your country would also go broke.

There's no easy solution, especially since a lot of you actually value your jobs and your income.

It's a very simple proposition.
"The buck stops here."
When someone complains that the Bush administration failed utterly in their response to Katrina, saying that lower-level officials failed is nothing but a diversion and a mindless repetition of a talking point. What lower-level officials did is not the question. The mayor of New Orleans could not affect matters if, say, an earthquake levelled half of California. The President, on the other hand, would have the same resources available, and so it *matters* for the future if the President fails in one region of the country.
"The buck stops here."
I don't care if the city could have done more. I don't care if the state could have done more. The fact remains that the federal response was slow and feeble in coming, and that there is no reason in the world to believe that it would respond any differently to a disaster elsewhere in the country. I don't expect the federal government to handle the entire evacuation and disaster recovery. But I do expect the federal government to be right there promptly and efficiently, helping out, regardless of the level or effectiveness of the more local efforts. And it wasn't.
"The buck stops here."
Bush screwed up, regardless of what happened at the state or local levels. But he'll never admit it, instead preferring to blame underlings and things 'no one could have foreseen,' like the levee breaking which had only, oh, been predicted as one of the top three natural disasters possible in the country by FEMA as far back as 2001, or by National Geographic just last fall. When a disaster befalls the country, the national leader has the ultimate responsibility to make sure that everything in his power is done to mitigate it, regardless of what other officials may do. And Bush didn't.

In this situation, his is not worse. He is responsible for the entire country, as you say - not just a city or state. The federal government must deal with internal and international affairs, whereas the mayor and governor only with their local areas. It is their responsibility, first and foremost, to ensure the operation goes as smoothly as possible in those areas. However, generally speaking, your conclusions on the Executive and Lesiglative branch are dead on.

Thanks, I'm especially proud of the fan remark. ;)

I respectfully disagree, however, on whether Bush's F was worse than the mayor and gov's based on the following reasonable (IMO) hypothetical:

What if the mayor and gov had been killed in the storm/flood?

With the infrastructure shattered, communications gone, and the leading local officials feeding the gators, as it were, wouldn't you expect the feds to step into the gap? In other words, if they can see with their own eyes what is happening, and no action or word is coming from the expected chain of command, shouldn't they have acted without it?

So I guess I'm saying that Bush & Co failed not only procedurally but as human beings as well, and I'm not really happy with leaving such losers in charge of my safety.

Vox populi Vox Dei thats our dog :cool:
backed up with riots and civil disobedience and tax revolts when necessary
Riots? Naughty Cas! Off the sofa, no biscuits for you tonight.

Ok, in a crisis situation, the number one thing to avoid, is to rearrange command lines. The reason is hopefully self evident.
It's not, actually. People always say, don't change horses in midstream, but what if the horse you're on can't swim?

The Bush administration may have fucked up badly, but to blame Bush himself seems irrelevant to me. What is it you people think he should have done? Grabbed command of everyone & everything by himself? I seriously doubt that would have improved the situation.
Yes, I'll give you that one. Putting Bush in charge would be a bad idea. :)

get used to it cause unless hes impeached for treason we have 3 more years of him killing people for corporate greed


I just had a conversation with a person who insists that the Director of Zoology at Harvard is a godless communist who will burn in hell.


You are the oposite end of the spectrum.

Riots? Naughty Cas! Off the sofa, no biscuits for you tonight.
but America was born in a riotous orgy of rebellion

We're getting off Cas's original idea, though. Yes, he is sounding a bit paranoid, but it is a paranoid-making situation. It's hard to think a group of people can be so thoughtless, inept, uncooperative, and heartless if it's not on purpose. But it doesn't have to be on purpose, does it? There doesn't have to be a grand conspiracy for there to be endemic corruption. I suggest that corruption is worse than conspiracy because a conspiracy might be exposed and broken, but corruption seeps in everywhere and contaminates everything. It's not that they're carrying out some secret plan for world domination (though Cheney may be); it's just that they are so corrupt they can't ever do anything clean. New Orleans is the only kind of cityscape their vision can produce.

And as much as I want to be rid of Bush forever, getting rid of him won't fix it. (Though let's get rid of him anyway.) He is a product of a corrupt system. I wonder if all these blind apologists who will never allow that he can do anything wrong, just can't face the reality of how low we've let our country sink in the past 30 years or so? He exists because the American people have not been doing their jobs as citizens.

So kudos to Cas -- keep hitting us in the face with the facts until we wake up.

I just had a conversation with a person who insists that the Director of Zoology at Harvard is a godless communist who will burn in hell.


You are the oposite end of the spectrum.
we are both right

when will the radical centrists stop rationalizing pure evil?

I just had a conversation with a person who insists that the Director of Zoology at Harvard is a godless communist who will burn in hell.


You are the oposite end of the spectrum.
You must be having a great day. ;)

but America was born in a riotous orgy of rebellion

With that wondrous sentence, you've totally erased the stain of having created such a goofy topic as this one in the first place. It was all worth it just to see "riotous orgy of rebellion" strung together. :D

On-topic, I just wanted to say: what more did you expect Bush to do? Get out to NO and start filling sandbags? If he'd made a speech on the dangers of Katrina earlier, would that have changed anything? And criticizing him for saying the levee wouldn't break was just cheap -- the man's a politician/MBA, not an engineer. I think your hatred of GWB has overwhelmed you to the point where you're jumping at shadows.

Indisputable Proof that Bush allowed NO to be destroyed for Halliburton greed
Indisputable evidence that you commit libel and enjoy it.

but America was born in a riotous orgy of rebellion
I'm going to put you on a leash.

With that wondrous sentence, you've totally erased the stain of having created such a goofy topic as this one in the first place. It was all worth it just to see "riotous orgy of rebellion" strung together. :D

Yes, it is a lovely sentiment. I take back the leash idea. Bark, boy, bark!

On-topic, I just wanted to say: what more did you expect Bush to do? Get out to NO and start filling sandbags? ... I think your hatred of GWB has overwhelmed you to the point where you're jumping at shadows.
They needed sandbags.

But you're right. He's working himself into a state, as my grandma used to say. But he is being provoked, IMO.

Indisputable Proof that Bush allowed NO to be destroyed for Halliburton greed

Ha! *NOTHING* is indisputable on this forum.

*Shakes head at entire thread*

Ha! *NOTHING* is indisputable on this forum.
Nuh uh! ... Wait, did that just prove your point? Aw, dangit! ;-)

Ha! *NOTHING* is indisputable on this forum.

Is it indisputable that nothing on this forum IS indisputable???

Wow..The LOGIC!!!

Oh Christ, not another one of these :headbang:
It took you this long to figure out what he was?

Is it indisputable that nothing on this forum IS indisputable???

Wow..The LOGIC!!!

I didn't say it was indisputable. :p

I didn't say it was indisputable. :p

So, its indisputable that nothing is indisputable, so its all disputable?

*Head Explodes*

We're getting off Cas's original idea, though. Yes, he is sounding a bit paranoid, but it is a paranoid-making situation. It's hard to think a group of people can be so thoughtless, inept, uncooperative, and heartless if it's not on purpose. But it doesn't have to be on purpose, does it? There doesn't have to be a grand conspiracy for there to be endemic corruption. I suggest that corruption is worse than conspiracy because a conspiracy might be exposed and broken, but corruption seeps in everywhere and contaminates everything. It's not that they're carrying out some secret plan for world domination (though Cheney may be); it's just that they are so corrupt they can't ever do anything clean. New Orleans is the only kind of cityscape their vision can produce.

And as much as I want to be rid of Bush forever, getting rid of him won't fix it. (Though let's get rid of him anyway.) He is a product of a corrupt system. I wonder if all these blind apologists who will never allow that he can do anything wrong, just can't face the reality of how low we've let our country sink in the past 30 years or so? He exists because the American people have not been doing their jobs as citizens.

So kudos to Cas -- keep hitting us in the face with the facts until we wake up.
I only started being aware since the Bushbeast siezed power but your right the entire system may be subverted at this point. We must strenghten light. We cannot create anything without the power of self consdciouss awareness of the presence of it within. The secons we feel/see that source within us automatically flows All the Good Things unto us and the world because our ATTENTION to this source is the golden key that opens every good thing. There can be no failure for anyone who remains focused on this pursuit ever

Antre_Travarious']Indisputable evidence that you commit libel and enjoy it.
its only libel if its false

Yes, it is a lovely sentiment. I take back the leash idea. Bark, boy, bark!
im barking from the rooftops :D

I only started being aware since the Bushbeast siezed power but your right the entire system may be subverted at this point. We must strenghten light. We cannot create anything without the power of self consdciouss awareness of the presence of it within. The secons we feel/see that source within us automatically flows All the Good Things unto us and the world because our ATTENTION to this source is the golden key that opens every good thing. There can be no failure for anyone who remains focused on this pursuit ever
Here's a suggestion then: serve the critique with some solutions.
Granted, I'm not an American, but other than some superficial differences between Clinton, Bush & Kerry, that mostly concerns a couple of moral issues, they seem to me to be doing (in the case of Kerry, intending to do) the same exact things.

he already has but since the treason party holds the majority in congress there wont be any hearings until democracy gets restored to America in 06

*obi wan Kenobi voice*

This isn't the treason your looking for.

Here's a suggestion then: serve the critique with some solutions.
Granted, I'm not an American, but other than some superficial differences between Clinton, Bush & Kerry, that mostly concerns a couple of moral issues, they seem to me to be doing (in the case of Kerry, intending to do) the same exact things.
on 9/24 millions of people from around the world will converge in DC to conduct a massive exorcism in a show of peoplepower the type that will change the course

on 9/24 millions of people from around the world will converge in DC to conduct a massive exorcism in a show of peoplepower the type that will change the course

I fell off my chair in laughter with that statement.

Good one!

we could do it if we can get free elections

Last time I checked, we did have free elections! Can you please stop spouting conspiracy theories that have no facts with them.

Someone's probably already mentioned this, and if so, sorry for the repeat, but I had to.

You can't go from a Cat 1 to a Cat 4 without being a Cat 2 and a Cat 3. It's a physical impossibility.

Your right. It is impossible. Also Kathrina was a Category 4 at landfall and not a 3!

I fell off my chair in laughter with that statement.

Good one!
itd a statement of fact--its going to make history. You should go if you want to live it. Your newspaper should be reporting it if its not part of the beast media (mine reported it)

Last time I checked, we did have free elections! Can you please stop spouting conspiracy theories that have no facts with them.
Diebolt votes no

on 9/24 millions of people from around the world will converge in DC to conduct a massive exorcism in a show of peoplepower the type that will change the course
Thanks for the warning. I won't be there.

Cas, some day you will realize that human nature -- light, dark, rotten, pure -- is already perfect. It cannot be changed, and it is all we have to work with. On that day, you will become a bitter, angry, depressed, disillusioned idealist. I will be waiting with a cup of coffee for you.

After about 30 cups of java, you will realize that it's all good, because there is nothing this perfect human nature cannot do or make of itself. So we can win, after all.

Only not with excorcisms.

But make it good -- I want to see it on tv. ;)

Diebolt votes no

The rest of us voted yes.

All of you who think Bush somehow conspired for this whole New Orleans thing to happen, you're crazy. It's not that I support Bush (Actually, I hate the douchebag), but that my hatedred for him does not cloud my logic. Our nation's economy is already in shambles (the national debt is in the trillions), and this whole thing will probably be the finishing blow. Knowing this, I think it should have been the responsiblity of both the federal and state governments to keep such a disaster from happening. Nobody expected it to happen, true, but also nobody expected the Earthquake disaster of 1906. We really should have been more prepared. I don't balme anyone in particular (hell, the French could be blamed for building New Orleans below sea level 300 years ago), but I am still dissapointed with how badly the system failed.

Thanks for the warning. I won't be there.

Cas, some day you will realize that human nature -- light, dark, rotten, pure -- is already perfect. It cannot be changed, and it is all we have to work with. On that day, you will become a bitter, angry, depressed, disillusioned idealist. I will be waiting with a cup of coffee for you.

After about 30 cups of java, you will realize that it's all good, because there is nothing this perfect human nature cannot do or make of itself. So we can win, after all.

Only not with excorcisms.

But make it good -- I want to see it on tv. ;)
we can do whatever we want as long as we love the god within us everyday all day long -- but im also bringing a helmut

The rest of us voted yes.
but diebolt always wins cause it has computer software programs for the desired outcomes ;)

we can do whatever we want as long as we love the god within us everyday all day long -- but im also bringing a helmut

Why, you expecting violence?

Diebolt votes no

Even if Diebolt did fix the elections - which I don't for a second accept that it did - it would only be the logical conclusion of a process that has been in place for years anyway. Go vote, or don't, it won't make any difference. Face it, whenever people vote for the president, they get to choose between two options, neither of which they had any say in getting (and don't give me that primary crap, it is so fixed, how else could no-name southern governers keep winning nominations?). It's like going to a restaurant, and only having a choice between a buffalo chicken sandwich with blue cheese dressing, or a buffalo chicken sandwich with ranch, and that's it. So really at that point does it matter whether you vote or not? Sure there are a few fringe people who vote for the cheeseburger or the veggie burger, but they don't matter and everyone ignores them, focusing instead upon the key differences between the blue cheese and the ranch because we all know there is no hope in hell of getting anything other than a buffalo chicken sandwich.

I wouldn't even mind so much, except for the fact that every four years, the over half of us that concluded this process is useless are forced to eat out at this restaurant by the rest of you.

But people are happier that way. Because politics in the US is not about actually running the country, it is in fact an extremely advanced form of performance art that parodies professional sport, except that the "fans" in politics are even more annoying than professional sports.

Of course, you could actually start caring and coming up with real ideas about how to do things, but that will never happen.

Why, you expecting violence?
yeah--cops have a tendacy to riot at people events

but diebolt always wins cause it has computer software programs for the desired outcomes ;)

I actually voted Absentee and if I was at my actual polling place, we use poll levers! OOPS!

yeah--cops have a tendacy to riot at people events

Examples?

To my knowlege, There has been little to no violence between Police and protesters during Anti-War demonstrations.

Even if Diebolt did fix the elections - which I don't for a second accept that it did - it would only be the logical conclusion of a process that has been in place for years anyway. Go vote, or don't, it won't make any difference. Face it, whenever people vote for the president, they get to choose between two options, neither of which they had any say in getting (and don't give me that primary crap, it is so fixed, how else could no-name southern governers keep winning nominations?). It's like going to a restaurant, and only having a choice between a buffalo chicken sandwich with blue cheese dressing, or a buffalo chicken sandwich with ranch, and that's it. So really at that point does it matter whether you vote or not? Sure there are a few fringe people who vote for the cheeseburger or the veggie burger, but they don't matter and everyone ignores them, focusing instead upon the key differences between the blue cheese and the ranch because we all know there is no hope in hell of getting anything other than a buffalo chicken sandwich.

I wouldn't even mind so much, except for the fact that every four years, the over half of us that concluded this process is useless are forced to eat out at this restaurant by the rest of you.

But people are happier that way. Because politics in the US is not about actually running the country, it is in fact an extremely advanced form of performance art that parodies professional sport, except that the "fans" in politics are even more annoying than professional sports.

Of course, you could actually start caring and coming up with real ideas about how to do things, but that will never happen.
resistance is real--people only lose if they fail to act

Idisputable proof...
This is pathetic.

Examples?

To my knowlege, There has been little to no violence between Police and protesters during Anti-War demonstrations.
at every free trade demonstartion cops practiced terrorism against innocent patriots

This is pathetic.
so is the Bush administration

We want our country back NOW

resistance is real--people only lose if they fail to act

You're not acting, you're bitching about Bush. If'n you want to act, go act, but getting rid of bush will accomplish nothing.

We want our country back NOW

And you'd have no idea what to do with it if you got it. At least Cheney knows what the fuck he's doing.

You're not acting, you're bitching about Bush. If'n you want to act, go act, but getting rid of bush will accomplish nothing.
Im doin both but my bitching is designed to awaken others getting rid of the resident evil in the white house will create the momentum for people power on every level

resistance is real--people only lose if they fail to act
That's too easy. Try not to be such an obvious target.

You're tired, Cas. Go to bed. In the morning, you'll feel good and you can plan your little party that no one is going to pay any attention to, and have fun storming the castle. In another thread, we can all argue about the *real* way to play nation states.

'Night all.

ADDITION RE CHENEY KNOWS WHAT HE'S DOING: I know what he's doing, too, and that's why I'm saving my best red dress to wear to his funeral. Cas may be an ineffectual nut, but he's right to be alarmed.

*Now* I'm signing off. Ta-ta.

And you'd have no idea what to do with it if you got it. At least Cheney knows what the fuck he's doing.
but if he succeeds we all die

at every free trade demonstartion cops practiced terrorism against innocent patriots

That, friend, is a loaded statement. Innocent patriots, you say? Those same "innocent patriots" that were breaking windows and burning things? If you consider those people patriots, than I would not like to live in a nation run by those that shre your definition of patriotism.

Ahh blaming things on bush, how pathetic.

I don't remember seeing bush in New Orleans doing a rain dance.

at every free trade demonstartion cops practiced terrorism against innocent patriots

Somone better check history. Its not the cops that start the trouble. Most of the time, it is the demonstrators themselves that start the trouble by provoking the police.

but if he succeeds we all die

How's that now. I thought he wanted to make Haliburton the Supreme ruler of the universe. How's he going to do that if we are all dead?

Seriously, what actually are your plans if your palace coup suceeds? You don't actually have any do you?

Saturday, August 27
5AM — KATRINA UPGRADED TO CATEGORY 3 HURRICANE [CNN]

GOV. BLANCO ASKS BUSH TO DECLARE FEDERAL STATE OF EMERGENCY IN LOUISIANA: “I have determined that this incident is of such severity and magnitude that effective response is beyond the capabilities of the State and affected local governments, and that supplementary Federal assistance is necessary to save lives, protect property, public health, and safety, or to lessen or avert the threat of a disaster.” [Office of the Governor]

FEDERAL EMERGENCY DECLARED, DHS AND FEMA GIVEN FULL AUTHORITY TO RESPOND TO KATRINA: “Specifically, FEMA is authorized to identify, mobilize, and provide at its discretion, equipment and resources necessary to alleviate the impacts of the emergency.” [White House]
----------------------------------------------------------------

I wish this idiot nation and I am refering to La Habana Cuba as the idiot nation, knew how to box this quote,
this idiot nation does not know how to box this quote.

Thank you for Proving President Bush innocent.

Saturday August 27, Hurricane Katrina upgraded
to category 3 Hurricane

Gov Blanco ask President Bush to declare Federal State of emergency in Louisiana.

Saturday, August 27
5AM — KATRINA UPGRADED TO CATEGORY 3 HURRICANE [CNN]

GOV. BLANCO ASKS BUSH TO DECLARE FEDERAL STATE OF EMERGENCY IN LOUISIANA: “I have determined that this incident is of such severity and magnitude that effective response is beyond the capabilities of the State and affected local governments, and that supplementary Federal assistance is necessary to save lives, protect property, public health, and safety, or to lessen or avert the threat of a disaster.” [Office of the Governor]

FEDERAL EMERGENCY DECLARED, DHS AND FEMA GIVEN FULL AUTHORITY TO RESPOND TO KATRINA: “Specifically, FEMA is authorized to identify, mobilize, and provide at its discretion, equipment and resources necessary to alleviate the impacts of the emergency.” [White House]

White House.

Anyone else would like to take a pic at this post?

There are many pics that can be made here.

Thank You.

Im doin both but my bitching is designed to awaken others getting rid of the resident evil in the white house will create the momentum for people power on every level

Its not working. All I'm seeing is a rant by someone that for some reason, cannot see reason at all.

get used to it cause unless hes impeached for treason we have 3 more years of him killing people for corporate greed
*Sigh*
You have to swear loyalty to an enemy of the United States to be charged with treason.
I’m no fan of Bush, but the majority of his opposition seems to grow more childish by the day.

How's that now. I thought he wanted to make Haliburton the Supreme ruler of the universe. How's he going to do that if we are all dead?

Seriously, what actually are your plans if your palace coup suceeds? You don't actually have any do you?
when Bush becomes impeached Cheney will be forced out from behind the curtian and he doesnt want that cause he has a bad heart

CNN Poll

Respondents also disagreed widely on who is to blame for the problems in the city following the hurricane -- 13 percent said Bush, 18 percent said federal agencies, 25 percent blamed state or local officials and 38 percent said no one is to blame. And 63 percent said they do not believe anyone at federal agencies responsible for handling emergencies should be fired as a result.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/09/07/katrina.poll/index.html

While there are on-going attempts to pin the tail on Bush, the public isn't buying it.

when Bush becomes impeached Cheney will be forced out from behind the curtian and he doesnt want that cause he has a bad heart

And because he has a bad heart, we all die? Seriously man, I think you need to take a valium or something. This level of paranoia cannot be good for you, you'll end up with a cardio-vascular system like Uncle Dick.

You never told me what your plans are.

Edit: Plus, I think you should consider the fact that most of us already realize the amount of influence Cheney has, it's not like he's a secret member of a kitchen cabinet operating in the shadows at present. So it wouldn't really be coming out from behind a "curtain" now would it?

That, friend, is a loaded statement. Innocent patriots, you say? Those same "innocent patriots" that were breaking windows and burning things? If you consider those people patriots, than I would not like to live in a nation run by those that shre your definition of patriotism.
People before Property besides they were only breaking corporate windows

Its not working. All I'm seeing is a rant by someone that for some reason, cannot see reason at all.
it only works on people whose minds are open to begin with

it only works on people whose minds are open to begin with

Well that leaves you out apparently. I have an open mind! However, I don't subject my mind to mindless dribble!

People before Property besides they were only breaking corporate windows

Oh, that makes it ok. They were only evil corperate windows. Nevermind the franchise owners that poured their heart and soul inot their shop. Nevermind the workers that lost their jobs due to wanton destruction. They deserved it for trying to make a honest living! How DARE they! :rolleyes:

People before Property besides they were only breaking corporate windows

Ah, but when the revoloution comes comrade, that property will rightly fall in to the people's hands. So by smashing it now, they are actually destroying the property of the people, thus making them "trotskyite wreckers" and therefore deserving of re-education (punishment) for their reactionary counter-revolutionary actions.

So if anything, the cops were right to smack them around a bit.

*Sigh*
You have to swear loyalty to an enemy of the United States to be charged with treason.
I’m no fan of Bush, but the majority of his opposition seems to grow more childish by the day.
he did swear loyalty to the enemies of the UnitedStates he obviously didnt do it publicly but his deeds betray him. People always castiagte the opposition but the opposition is the only thing that keeps us free

CNN Poll



http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/09/07/katrina.poll/index.html

While there are on-going attempts to pin the tail on Bush, the public isn't buying it.
altho they must blame him for everything else then cause Bushs poll numbers are still in the tank

Somone better check history. Its not the cops that start the trouble. Most of the time, it is the demonstrators themselves that start the trouble by provoking the police.
historically speaking at most demonstration 99.9% its the police who provoke the violence

he did swear loyalty to the enemies of the UnitedStates he obviously didnt do it publicly but his deeds betray him. People always castiagte the opposition but the opposition is the only thing that keeps us free

That's it! Now you crossed the line for conspiracy theory to rediculously stupid!

Bush didn't swear loyality to the enemy! Define the enemy.

he did swear loyalty to the enemies of the UnitedStates he obviously didnt do it publicly but his deeds betray him. People always castiagte the opposition but the opposition is the only thing that keeps us free

ROFL!!!

The Shadows awake...

Shiftyeyes

historically speaking at most demonstration 99.9% its the police who provoke the violence

Evidence? Proof? Sources?

Spouting random figures is not a valid debate tactic.

historically speaking at most demonstration 99.9% its the police who provoke the violence

bull! The police don't want trouble so they have nothing to gain by provoking police. However, demonstrators have everything to gain by provoking police.

I have to go to bed --tommorow I will make it all clearer what I mean but murvyets was correct--im very sleepy now and cant think anymore

he did swear loyalty to the enemies of the UnitedStates he obviously didnt do it publicly but his deeds betray him. People always castiagte the opposition but the opposition is the only thing that keeps us free
Even if your bull shit was true, the constitution says that there must be at least two witnesses for one to be charged with the act of treason. That means that at least two people must come forward and say that they personally saw him conspire with Bin Laden or something.

I love how that shoe shoper is daming the senitor for doing the exat same thing she is doing. owell thats america for you bitch, bitch, bitch, never do. if people want somthing done about katreana (or any other problem) they should go help themselfs and not wine about the gov'ts lack of action. this is not to say the gov't is not reponsibul, it is there job, but evryone needs to do something. "even a maricale needs some help." as for the capotolis; shame on them if they did not do thair job and take advatige of the opertunity.

I love how that shoe shoper is daming the senitor for doing the exat same thing she is doing. owell thats america for you bitch, bitch, bitch, never do. if people want somthing done about katreana (or any other problem) they should go help themselfs and not wine about the gov'ts lack of action. this is not to say the gov't is not reponsibul, it is there job, but evryone needs to do something. "even a maricale needs some help." as for the capotolis; shame on them if they did not do thair job and take advatige of the opertunity.

....What?

Guess what, all you Bush supporters. America is the most hated nation on earth. Bush has made this about 10fold what it was before. Do you really think everyone who wants Bush gone are misguided? Look how the USA has treated the world. And now look how it treats the weakest of its own citizens. Many countries have a fascination with American culture, fast food, pop music, affluence, but they still hate the politics. Is this the America you want? The ignorance of a large, mostly rural and deeply, misguidedly, devoutly religious sector of the US reviles me, and the worst part is, that Bush can't even be voted out next time, because he would have to leave after two terms anyway. Mindless patriotism without questioning authority is EVIL. G'Day to all the intellectual Anti-Bush mob in the US, stay strong!
Ben

Vesoyu that is your view and opinion and the view and opinion of many others.

That is not my view and my opinion and not the view
and opinion of many others.

As we both have a right to our views and opinions.

so is the Bush administration

We want our country back NOW
Are all 200+ of your posts this rediculous?

I am trying to understand this post, but it is so long it is giving me a headache.

Read the post now, there is alot to pick at here, but I do not know how to box quote.


Yesterday, 10:11 PM #1
Casimir Poseiden
Member


Yesterday, 10:11 PM #1
Casimir Poseiden
Member







--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Here is the timeline of Bushs deliberate failure to save a cultural gem of a city from

TheRandiRhodesShow.Com:

Friday, August 26
GOV. KATHLEEN BLANCO DECLARES STATE OF EMERGENCY IN LOUISIANA: [Office of the Governor]

GULF COAST STATES REQUEST TROOP ASSISTANCE FROM PENTAGON: At a 9/1 press conference, Lt. Gen.

Russel Honoré, commander, Joint Task Force Katrina, said that the Gulf States began the process

of requesting additional forces on Friday, 8/26. [DOD]

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Saturday, August 27
5AM — KATRINA UPGRADED TO CATEGORY 3 HURRICANE [CNN]

GOV. BLANCO ASKS BUSH TO DECLARE FEDERAL STATE OF EMERGENCY IN LOUISIANA: “I have determined

that this incident is of such severity and magnitude that effective response is beyond the

capabilities of the State and affected local governments, and that supplementary Federal

assistance is necessary to save lives, protect property, public health, and safety, or to lessen

or avert the threat of a disaster.” [Office of the Governor]

FEDERAL EMERGENCY DECLARED, DHS AND FEMA GIVEN FULL AUTHORITY TO RESPOND TO KATRINA:

“Specifically, FEMA is authorized to identify, mobilize, and provide at its discretion,

equipment and resources necessary to alleviate the impacts of the emergency.” [White House]

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sunday, August 28
2AM – KATRINA UPGRADED TO CATEGORY 4 HURRICANE [CNN]

7AM – KATRINA UPGRADED TO CATEGORY 5 HURRICANE [CNN]

MORNING — LOUISIANA NEWSPAPER SIGNALS LEVEES MAY GIVE: “Forecasters Fear Levees Won’t Hold

Katrina”: “Forecasters feared Sunday afternoon that storm driven waters will lap over the New

Orleans levees when monster Hurricane Katrina pushes past the Crescent City tomorrow.”

[Lafayette Daily Advertiser]

9:30 AM — MAYOR NAGIN ISSUES FIRST EVER MANDATORY EVACUATION OF NEW ORLEANS: “We’re facing the

storm most of us have feared,” said Nagin. “This is going to be an unprecedented event.”

[Times-Picayune]

4PM – NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE ISSUES SPECIAL HURRICANE WARNING: In the event of a category 4 or

5 hit, “Most of the area will be uninhabitable for weeks, perhaps longer. … At least one-half of

well-constructed homes will have roof and wall failure. All gabled roofs will fail, leaving

those homes severely damaged or destroyed. … Power outages will last for weeks. … Water

shortages will make human suffering incredible by modern standards.” [National Weather Service]

AFTERNOON — BUSH, BROWN, CHERTOFF WARNED OF LEVEE FAILURE BY NATIONAL HURRICANE CENTER DIRECTOR:

Dr. Max Mayfield, director of the National Hurricane Center: “‘We were briefing them way before

landfall. … It’s not like this was a surprise. We had in the advisories that the levee could be

topped.’” [Times-Picayune; St. Petersburg Times]

LATE PM – REPORTS OF WATER TOPPLING OVER LEVEE: “Waves crashed atop the exercise path on the

Lake Pontchartrain levee in Kenner early Monday as Katrina churned closer.” [Times-Picayune]

APPROXIMATELY 30,000 EVACUEES GATHER AT SUPERDOME WITH ROUGHLY 36 HOURS WORTH OF FOOD

[Times-Picayune]

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Monday, August 29
7AM – KATRINA MAKES LANDFALL AS A CATEGORY 4 HURRICANE [CNN]

8AM – MAYOR NAGIN REPORTS THAT WATER IS FLOWING OVER LEVEE: “I’ve gotten reports this morning

that there is already water coming over some of the levee systems. In the lower ninth ward,

we’ve had one of our pumping stations to stop operating, so we will have significant flooding,

it is just a matter of how much.” [NBC’s “Today Show”]

MORNING — BUSH CALLS SECRETARY CHERTOFF TO DISCUSS IMMIGRATION: “I spoke to Mike Chertoff today

— he’s the head of the Department of Homeland Security. I knew people would want me to discuss

this issue [immigration], so we got us an airplane on — a telephone on Air Force One, so I

called him. I said, are you working with the governor? He said, you bet we are.” [White House]

LATE MORNING – LEVEE BREACHED: “A large section of the vital 17th Street Canal levee, where it

connects to the brand new ‘hurricane proof’ Old Hammond Highway bridge, gave way late Monday

morning in Bucktown after Katrina’s fiercest winds were well north.” [Times-Picayune]

11:30AM — MICHAEL BROWN FINALLY REQUESTS THAT DHS DISPATCH 1,000 EMPLOYEES TO REGION, GIVES THEM

TWO DAYS TO ARRIVE: “Brown’s memo to Chertoff described Katrina as ‘this near catastrophic

event’ but otherwise lacked any urgent language. The memo politely ended, ‘Thank you for your

consideration in helping us to meet our responsibilities.’” [AP]



MIDDAY – CHERTOFF FINALLY BECOMES AWARE THAT LEVEE HAS FAILED: “It was on Tuesday that the

levee–may have been overnight Monday to Tuesday–that the levee started to break. And it was

midday Tuesday that I became aware of the fact that there was no possibility of plugging the gap

and that essentially the lake was going to start to drain into the city.” [Meet the Press,

9/4/05]

PENTAGON CLAIMS THERE ARE ENOUGH NATIONAL GUARD TROOPS IN REGION: “Pentagon spokesman Lawrence

Di Rita said the states have adequate National Guard units to handle the hurricane needs.”

[WWL-TV]

MASS LOOTING REPORTED, SECURITY SHORTAGE CITED: “The looting is out of control. The French

Quarter has been attacked,” Councilwoman Jackie Clarkson said. “We’re using exhausted, scarce

police to control looting when they should be used for search and rescue while we still have

people on rooftops.” [AP]

U.S.S. BATAAN SITS OFF SHORE, VIRTUALLY UNUSED: “The USS Bataan, a 844-foot ship designed to

dispatch Marines in amphibious assaults, has helicopters, doctors, hospital beds, food and

water. It also can make its own water, up to 100,000 gallons a day. And it just happened to be

in the Gulf of Mexico when Katrina came roaring ashore. The Bataan rode out the storm and then

followed it toward shore, awaiting relief orders. Helicopter pilots flying from its deck were

some of the first to begin plucking stranded New Orleans residents. But now the Bataan’s

hospital facilities, including six operating rooms and beds for 600 patients, are empty.”

[Chicago Tribune]

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Wednesday, August 31
TENS OF THOUSANDS TRAPPED IN SUPERDOME; CONDITIONS DETERIORATE: “A 2-year-old girl slept in a

pool of urine. Crack vials littered a restroom. Blood stained the walls next to vending machines

smashed by teenagers. ‘We pee on the floor. We are like animals,’ said Taffany Smith, 25, as she

cradled her 3-week-old son, Terry. … By Wednesday, it had degenerated into horror. … At least

two people, including a child, have been raped. At least three people have died, including one

man who jumped 50 feet to his death, saying he had nothing left to live for. There is no

sanitation. The stench is overwhelming.”" [Los Angeles Times, 9/1/05]

PRESIDENT BUSH FINALLY ORGANIZES TASK FORCE TO COORDINATE FEDERAL RESPONSE: Bush says on Tuesday

he will “fly to Washington to begin work…with a task force that will coordinate the work of 14

federal agencies involved in the relief effort.” [New York Times, 8/31/05]

JEFFERSON PARISH EMERGENCY DIRECTOR SAYS FOOD AND WATER SUPPLY GONE: “Director Walter Maestri:

FEMA and national agencies not delivering the help nearly as fast as it is needed.” [WWL-TV]

80,000 BELIEVED STRANDED IN NEW ORLEANS: Former Mayor Sidney Barthelemy “estimated 80,000 were

trapped in the flooded city and urged President Bush to send more troops.” [Reuters]

3,000 STRANDED AT CONVENTION CENTER WITHOUT FOOD OR WATER: “With 3,000 or more evacuees stranded

at the convention center — and with no apparent contingency plan or authority to deal with them

— collecting a body was no one’s priority. … Some had been at the convention center since

Tuesday morning but had received no food, water or instructions.” [Times-Picayune]

5PM — BUSH GIVES FIRST MAJOR ADDRESS ON KATRINA: “Nothing about the president’s demeanor… —

which seemed casual to the point of carelessness — suggested that he understood the depth of the

current crisis.” [New York Times]



9PM — FEMA DIRECTOR BROWN CLAIMS SURPRISE OVER SIZE OF STORM: “I must say, this storm is much

much bigger than anyone expected.” [CNN]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thursday, September 1
8AM — BUSH CLAIMS NO ONE EXPECTED LEVEES TO BREAK: “I don’t think anybody anticipated the breach

of the levees.” [Washington Post]



STILL NO COMMAND AND CONTROL ESTABLISHED: Terry Ebbert, New Orleans Homeland Security Director:

“This is a national emergency. This is a national disgrace. FEMA has been here three days, yet

there is no command and control. We can send massive amounts of aid to tsunami victims, but we

can’t bail out the city of New Orleans.” [Fox News]

2PM — MAYOR NAGIN ISSUES “DESPERATE SOS” TO FEDERAL GOVERNMENT: “This is a desperate SOS. Right

now we are out of resources at the convention centre and don’t anticipate enough buses. We need

buses. Currently the convention centre is unsanitary and unsafe and we’re running out of

supplies.” [Guardian, 9/2/05]



2PM — MICHAEL BROWN CLAIMS NOT TO HAVE HEARD OF REPORTS OF VIOLENCE: “I’ve had no reports of

unrest, if the connotation of the word unrest means that people are beginning to riot, or you

know, they’re banging on walls and screaming and hollering or burning tires or whatever. I’ve

had no reports of that.” [CNN]

NEW ORLEANS “DESCEND[S] INTO ANARCHY”: “Storm victims were raped and beaten, fights and fires

broke out, corpses lay out in the open, and rescue helicopters and law enforcement officers were

shot at as flooded-out New Orleans descended into anarchy Thursday. ‘This is a desperate SOS,’

the mayor said.” [AP]



MICHAEL BROWN FINALLY LEARNS OF EVACUEES IN CONVENTION CENTER: “We learned about that

(Thursday), so I have directed that we have all available resources to get that convention

center to make sure that they have the food and water and medical care that they need.” [CNN]

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Friday, September 2
ROVE-LED CAMPAIGN TO BLAME LOCAL OFFICIALS BEGINS: “Under the command of President Bush’s two

senior political advisers, the White House rolled out a plan…to contain the political damage

from the administration’s response to Hurricane Katrina.” President Bush’s comments from the

Rose Garden Friday morning formed “the start of this campaign.” [New York Times, 9/5/05]

9:35AM — BUSH PRAISES MICHAEL BROWN: “Brownie, you’re doing a heck of a job.” [White House,

9/2/05]

10 AM — PRESIDENT BUSH STAGES PHOTO-OP “BRIEFING”: Coast Guard helicopters and crew diverted to

act as backdrop for President Bush’s photo-op.

BUSH VISIT GROUNDS FOOD AID: “Three tons of food ready for delivery by air to refugees in St.

Bernard Parish and on Algiers Point sat on the Crescent City Connection bridge Friday afternoon

as air traffic was halted because of President Bush’s visit to New Orleans, officials said.”

[Times-Picayune]

LEVEE REPAIR WORK ORCHESTRATED FOR PRESIDENT’S VISIT: Sen. Mary Landrieu, 9/3: “Touring this

critical site yesterday with the President, I saw what I believed to be a real and significant

effort to get a handle on a major cause of this catastrophe. Flying over this critical spot

again this morning, less than 24 hours later, it became apparent that yesterday we witnessed a

hastily prepared stage set for a Presidential photo opportunity; and the desperately needed

resources we saw were this morning reduced to a single, lonely piece of equipment.” [Sen. Mary

Landrieu]

BUSH USES 50 FIREFIGHTERS AS PROPS IN DISASTER AREA PHOTO-OP: A group of 1,000 firefighters

convened in Atlanta to volunteer with the Katrina relief efforts. Of those, “a team of 50 Monday

morning quickly was ushered onto a flight headed for Louisiana. The crew’s first assignment: to

stand beside President Bush as he tours devastated areas.” [Salt Lake Tribune; Reuters]

3PM — BUSH “SATISFIED WITH THE RESPONSE”: “I am satisfied with the response. I am not satisfied

with all the results.” [AP]

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Saturday, September 3
SENIOR BUSH ADMINISTRATION OFFICIAL LIES TO WASHINGTON POST, CLAIMS GOV. BLANCO NEVER DECLARED

STATE OF EMERGENCY: The Post reported in their Sunday edition “As of Saturday, Blanco still had

not declared a state of emergency, the senior Bush official said.” They were forced to issue a

correction hours later. [Washington Post, 9/4/05]

9AM — BUSH BLAMES STATE AND LOCAL OFFICIALS: “[T]he magnitude of responding to a crisis over a

disaster area that is larger than the size of Great Britain has created tremendous problems that

have strained state and local capabilities. The result is that many of our citizens simply are

not getting the help they need.” [White House, 9/3/05]

Vesoyu that is your view and opinion and the view and opinion of many others.

That is not my view and my opinion and not the view
and opinion of many others.

As we both have a right to our views and opinions.
I was hoping that would be ridiculously obvious, but, reading some of these posts, I guess it needs saying.

Ahh blaming things on bush, how pathetic.

I don't remember seeing bush in New Orleans doing a rain dance.
right--he just played the guitar while people were screaming for help drowning--he even blocked the normally evil WALMART from donating aid--Bush makes even Walmart look good in comparision (unbelievable)

How's that now. I thought he wanted to make Haliburton the Supreme ruler of the universe. How's he going to do that if we are all dead?

Seriously, what actually are your plans if your palace coup suceeds? You don't actually have any do you?
we are called to resist evil--when we act in this endeavor the divine plan takes care of itself

Oh, that makes it ok. They were only evil corperate windows. Nevermind the franchise owners that poured their heart and soul inot their shop. Nevermind the workers that lost their jobs due to wanton destruction. They deserved it for trying to make a honest living! How DARE they! :rolleyes:
but you express no similar sympathy for the patriots at protests who are on the frontlines defending workers rights when they get they get their heads bashed in by sadistic cops for even less reason then the people have who destroy property

That's it! Now you crossed the line for conspiracy theory to rediculously stupid!

Bush didn't swear loyality to the enemy! Define the enemy.
all the people in the world that Bush empowers

Evidence? Proof? Sources?

Spouting random figures is not a valid debate tactic.
google the Battle of Seattle

bull! The police don't want trouble so they have nothing to gain by provoking police. However, demonstrators have everything to gain by provoking police.
police provoke trouble cause they very rarely if ever are held accountable for all the trouble they cause plus most of them fit the psyhcological profile of bullies

Even if your bull shit was true, the constitution says that there must be at least two witnesses for one to be charged with the act of treason. That means that at least two people must come forward and say that they personally saw him conspire with Bin Laden or something.
I hope they get the chance to do just that before Bush kills them

get used to it cause unless hes impeached for treason we have 3 more years of him killing people for corporate greed


ROFL

Whine on, O socialist eternal!

Are all 200+ of your posts this rediculous?
no they get better

I am trying to understand this post, but it is so long it is giving me a headache.

Read the post now, there is alot to pick at here, but I do not know how to box quote.


Yesterday, 10:11 PM #1
Casimir Poseiden
Member


Yesterday, 10:11 PM #1
Casimir Poseiden
Member







--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Here is the timeline of Bushs deliberate failure to save a cultural gem of a city from

TheRandiRhodesShow.Com:

Friday, August 26
GOV. KATHLEEN BLANCO DECLARES STATE OF EMERGENCY IN LOUISIANA: [Office of the Governor]

GULF COAST STATES REQUEST TROOP ASSISTANCE FROM PENTAGON: At a 9/1 press conference, Lt. Gen.

Russel Honoré, commander, Joint Task Force Katrina, said that the Gulf States began the process

of requesting additional forces on Friday, 8/26. [DOD]

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Saturday, August 27
5AM — KATRINA UPGRADED TO CATEGORY 3 HURRICANE [CNN]

GOV. BLANCO ASKS BUSH TO DECLARE FEDERAL STATE OF EMERGENCY IN LOUISIANA: “I have determined

that this incident is of such severity and magnitude that effective response is beyond the

capabilities of the State and affected local governments, and that supplementary Federal

assistance is necessary to save lives, protect property, public health, and safety, or to lessen

or avert the threat of a disaster.” [Office of the Governor]

FEDERAL EMERGENCY DECLARED, DHS AND FEMA GIVEN FULL AUTHORITY TO RESPOND TO KATRINA:

“Specifically, FEMA is authorized to identify, mobilize, and provide at its discretion,

equipment and resources necessary to alleviate the impacts of the emergency.” [White House]

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sunday, August 28
2AM – KATRINA UPGRADED TO CATEGORY 4 HURRICANE [CNN]

7AM – KATRINA UPGRADED TO CATEGORY 5 HURRICANE [CNN]

MORNING — LOUISIANA NEWSPAPER SIGNALS LEVEES MAY GIVE: “Forecasters Fear Levees Won’t Hold

Katrina”: “Forecasters feared Sunday afternoon that storm driven waters will lap over the New

Orleans levees when monster Hurricane Katrina pushes past the Crescent City tomorrow.”

[Lafayette Daily Advertiser]

9:30 AM — MAYOR NAGIN ISSUES FIRST EVER MANDATORY EVACUATION OF NEW ORLEANS: “We’re facing the

storm most of us have feared,” said Nagin. “This is going to be an unprecedented event.”

[Times-Picayune]

4PM – NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE ISSUES SPECIAL HURRICANE WARNING: In the event of a category 4 or

5 hit, “Most of the area will be uninhabitable for weeks, perhaps longer. … At least one-half of

well-constructed homes will have roof and wall failure. All gabled roofs will fail, leaving

those homes severely damaged or destroyed. … Power outages will last for weeks. … Water

shortages will make human suffering incredible by modern standards.” [National Weather Service]

AFTERNOON — BUSH, BROWN, CHERTOFF WARNED OF LEVEE FAILURE BY NATIONAL HURRICANE CENTER DIRECTOR:

Dr. Max Mayfield, director of the National Hurricane Center: “‘We were briefing them way before

landfall. … It’s not like this was a surprise. We had in the advisories that the levee could be

topped.’” [Times-Picayune; St. Petersburg Times]

LATE PM – REPORTS OF WATER TOPPLING OVER LEVEE: “Waves crashed atop the exercise path on the

Lake Pontchartrain levee in Kenner early Monday as Katrina churned closer.” [Times-Picayune]

APPROXIMATELY 30,000 EVACUEES GATHER AT SUPERDOME WITH ROUGHLY 36 HOURS WORTH OF FOOD

[Times-Picayune]

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Monday, August 29
7AM – KATRINA MAKES LANDFALL AS A CATEGORY 4 HURRICANE [CNN]

8AM – MAYOR NAGIN REPORTS THAT WATER IS FLOWING OVER LEVEE: “I’ve gotten reports this morning

that there is already water coming over some of the levee systems. In the lower ninth ward,

we’ve had one of our pumping stations to stop operating, so we will have significant flooding,

it is just a matter of how much.” [NBC’s “Today Show”]

MORNING — BUSH CALLS SECRETARY CHERTOFF TO DISCUSS IMMIGRATION: “I spoke to Mike Chertoff today

— he’s the head of the Department of Homeland Security. I knew people would want me to discuss

this issue [immigration], so we got us an airplane on — a telephone on Air Force One, so I

called him. I said, are you working with the governor? He said, you bet we are.” [White House]

LATE MORNING – LEVEE BREACHED: “A large section of the vital 17th Street Canal levee, where it

connects to the brand new ‘hurricane proof’ Old Hammond Highway bridge, gave way late Monday

morning in Bucktown after Katrina’s fiercest winds were well north.” [Times-Picayune]

11:30AM — MICHAEL BROWN FINALLY REQUESTS THAT DHS DISPATCH 1,000 EMPLOYEES TO REGION, GIVES THEM

TWO DAYS TO ARRIVE: “Brown’s memo to Chertoff described Katrina as ‘this near catastrophic

event’ but otherwise lacked any urgent language. The memo politely ended, ‘Thank you for your

consideration in helping us to meet our responsibilities.’” [AP]



MIDDAY – CHERTOFF FINALLY BECOMES AWARE THAT LEVEE HAS FAILED: “It was on Tuesday that the

levee–may have been overnight Monday to Tuesday–that the levee started to break. And it was

midday Tuesday that I became aware of the fact that there was no possibility of plugging the gap

and that essentially the lake was going to start to drain into the city.” [Meet the Press,

9/4/05]

PENTAGON CLAIMS THERE ARE ENOUGH NATIONAL GUARD TROOPS IN REGION: “Pentagon spokesman Lawrence

Di Rita said the states have adequate National Guard units to handle the hurricane needs.”

[WWL-TV]

MASS LOOTING REPORTED, SECURITY SHORTAGE CITED: “The looting is out of control. The French

Quarter has been attacked,” Councilwoman Jackie Clarkson said. “We’re using exhausted, scarce

police to control looting when they should be used for search and rescue while we still have

people on rooftops.” [AP]

U.S.S. BATAAN SITS OFF SHORE, VIRTUALLY UNUSED: “The USS Bataan, a 844-foot ship designed to

dispatch Marines in amphibious assaults, has helicopters, doctors, hospital beds, food and

water. It also can make its own water, up to 100,000 gallons a day. And it just happened to be

in the Gulf of Mexico when Katrina came roaring ashore. The Bataan rode out the storm and then

followed it toward shore, awaiting relief orders. Helicopter pilots flying from its deck were

some of the first to begin plucking stranded New Orleans residents. But now the Bataan’s

hospital facilities, including six operating rooms and beds for 600 patients, are empty.”

[Chicago Tribune]

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Wednesday, August 31
TENS OF THOUSANDS TRAPPED IN SUPERDOME; CONDITIONS DETERIORATE: “A 2-year-old girl slept in a

pool of urine. Crack vials littered a restroom. Blood stained the walls next to vending machines

smashed by teenagers. ‘We pee on the floor. We are like animals,’ said Taffany Smith, 25, as she

cradled her 3-week-old son, Terry. … By Wednesday, it had degenerated into horror. … At least

two people, including a child, have been raped. At least three people have died, including one

man who jumped 50 feet to his death, saying he had nothing left to live for. There is no

sanitation. The stench is overwhelming.”" [Los Angeles Times, 9/1/05]

PRESIDENT BUSH FINALLY ORGANIZES TASK FORCE TO COORDINATE FEDERAL RESPONSE: Bush says on Tuesday

he will “fly to Washington to begin work…with a task force that will coordinate the work of 14

federal agencies involved in the relief effort.” [New York Times, 8/31/05]

JEFFERSON PARISH EMERGENCY DIRECTOR SAYS FOOD AND WATER SUPPLY GONE: “Director Walter Maestri:

FEMA and national agencies not delivering the help nearly as fast as it is needed.” [WWL-TV]

80,000 BELIEVED STRANDED IN NEW ORLEANS: Former Mayor Sidney Barthelemy “estimated 80,000 were

trapped in the flooded city and urged President Bush to send more troops.” [Reuters]

3,000 STRANDED AT CONVENTION CENTER WITHOUT FOOD OR WATER: “With 3,000 or more evacuees stranded

at the convention center — and with no apparent contingency plan or authority to deal with them

— collecting a body was no one’s priority. … Some had been at the convention center since

Tuesday morning but had received no food, water or instructions.” [Times-Picayune]

5PM — BUSH GIVES FIRST MAJOR ADDRESS ON KATRINA: “Nothing about the president’s demeanor… —

which seemed casual to the point of carelessness — suggested that he understood the depth of the

current crisis.” [New York Times]



9PM — FEMA DIRECTOR BROWN CLAIMS SURPRISE OVER SIZE OF STORM: “I must say, this storm is much

much bigger than anyone expected.” [CNN]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thursday, September 1
8AM — BUSH CLAIMS NO ONE EXPECTED LEVEES TO BREAK: “I don’t think anybody anticipated the breach

of the levees.” [Washington Post]



STILL NO COMMAND AND CONTROL ESTABLISHED: Terry Ebbert, New Orleans Homeland Security Director:

“This is a national emergency. This is a national disgrace. FEMA has been here three days, yet

there is no command and control. We can send massive amounts of aid to tsunami victims, but we

can’t bail out the city of New Orleans.” [Fox News]

2PM — MAYOR NAGIN ISSUES “DESPERATE SOS” TO FEDERAL GOVERNMENT: “This is a desperate SOS. Right

now we are out of resources at the convention centre and don’t anticipate enough buses. We need

buses. Currently the convention centre is unsanitary and unsafe and we’re running out of

supplies.” [Guardian, 9/2/05]



2PM — MICHAEL BROWN CLAIMS NOT TO HAVE HEARD OF REPORTS OF VIOLENCE: “I’ve had no reports of

unrest, if the connotation of the word unrest means that people are beginning to riot, or you

know, they’re banging on walls and screaming and hollering or burning tires or whatever. I’ve

had no reports of that.” [CNN]

NEW ORLEANS “DESCEND[S] INTO ANARCHY”: “Storm victims were raped and beaten, fights and fires

broke out, corpses lay out in the open, and rescue helicopters and law enforcement officers were

shot at as flooded-out New Orleans descended into anarchy Thursday. ‘This is a desperate SOS,’

the mayor said.” [AP]



MICHAEL BROWN FINALLY LEARNS OF EVACUEES IN CONVENTION CENTER: “We learned about that

(Thursday), so I have directed that we have all available resources to get that convention

center to make sure that they have the food and water and medical care that they need.” [CNN]

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Friday, September 2
ROVE-LED CAMPAIGN TO BLAME LOCAL OFFICIALS BEGINS: “Under the command of President Bush’s two

senior political advisers, the White House rolled out a plan…to contain the political damage

from the administration’s response to Hurricane Katrina.” President Bush’s comments from the

Rose Garden Friday morning formed “the start of this campaign.” [New York Times, 9/5/05]

9:35AM — BUSH PRAISES MICHAEL BROWN: “Brownie, you’re doing a heck of a job.” [White House,

9/2/05]

10 AM — PRESIDENT BUSH STAGES PHOTO-OP “BRIEFING”: Coast Guard helicopters and crew diverted to

act as backdrop for President Bush’s photo-op.

BUSH VISIT GROUNDS FOOD AID: “Three tons of food ready for delivery by air to refugees in St.

Bernard Parish and on Algiers Point sat on the Crescent City Connection bridge Friday afternoon

as air traffic was halted because of President Bush’s visit to New Orleans, officials said.”

[Times-Picayune]

LEVEE REPAIR WORK ORCHESTRATED FOR PRESIDENT’S VISIT: Sen. Mary Landrieu, 9/3: “Touring this

critical site yesterday with the President, I saw what I believed to be a real and significant

effort to get a handle on a major cause of this catastrophe. Flying over this critical spot

again this morning, less than 24 hours later, it became apparent that yesterday we witnessed a

hastily prepared stage set for a Presidential photo opportunity; and the desperately needed

resources we saw were this morning reduced to a single, lonely piece of equipment.” [Sen. Mary

Landrieu]

BUSH USES 50 FIREFIGHTERS AS PROPS IN DISASTER AREA PHOTO-OP: A group of 1,000 firefighters

convened in Atlanta to volunteer with the Katrina relief efforts. Of those, “a team of 50 Monday

morning quickly was ushered onto a flight headed for Louisiana. The crew’s first assignment: to

stand beside President Bush as he tours devastated areas.” [Salt Lake Tribune; Reuters]

3PM — BUSH “SATISFIED WITH THE RESPONSE”: “I am satisfied with the response. I am not satisfied

with all the results.” [AP]

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Saturday, September 3
SENIOR BUSH ADMINISTRATION OFFICIAL LIES TO WASHINGTON POST, CLAIMS GOV. BLANCO NEVER DECLARED

STATE OF EMERGENCY: The Post reported in their Sunday edition “As of Saturday, Blanco still had

not declared a state of emergency, the senior Bush official said.” They were forced to issue a

correction hours later. [Washington Post, 9/4/05]

9AM — BUSH BLAMES STATE AND LOCAL OFFICIALS: “[T]he magnitude of responding to a crisis over a

disaster area that is larger than the size of Great Britain has created tremendous problems that

have strained state and local capabilities. The result is that many of our citizens simply are

not getting the help they need.” [White House, 9/3/05]
that would be correct

ROFL

Whine on, O socialist eternal!
Im fighting Bushs corporate communism that terrorizes and enslaves the worlds people

and this post, but it is so long it is giving me a headache.I am trying to underst

Read the post now, there is alot to pick at here, but I do not know how to box quote.
ok, i'm gonna hafta teach you how to quote.

here's what a plain quote looks like:


Yesterday, 10:11 PM #1
Casimir Poseiden
Member


Yesterday, 10:11 PM #1
Casimir Poseiden
Member







--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Here is the timeline of Bushs deliberate failure to save a cultural gem of a city from

TheRandiRhodesShow.Com: ....

to do this, you put a "[ quote]" at the begining of what you want to quote. and you put a "[ /quote]" at the end.

if you want to quote someone's particular post, you can click the quote button at the bottom of their post. or type in"[ quote=<that persons name>]" and then follow it with the "[ /quote]."



Thanks, and please use quoting wisely ;)

So, wait... the author of this thread is arguing that if the feds had done a better job at evacuating people, New Orleans wouldn't be underwater? New Orleans was destroyed because first a category 4 hurricane hit it, and second because the hurricane caused a levy breach that flooded the city and took until this week to plug up.

Haliburton is one of two companies capable of rebuilding property on a mass scale. I don't understand the claim that the Administration's response to Katrina helped to drum up more business for them. Could the Adminstration have kept Katrina from hitting? Given that a public works project involving dams or levys typically take about 10 years to complete, could they have prevented the levy from breaking? By "responding quicker" could they have kept the city from flooding? What exactly is Haliburton rebuilding that wouldn't have been destroyed no matter who was in office?

People are getting loony...

So, wait... the author of this thread is arguing that if the feds had done a better job at evacuating people, New Orleans wouldn't be underwater? New Orleans was destroyed because first a category 4 hurricane hit it, and second because the hurricane caused a levy breach that flooded the city and took until this week to plug up.

Haliburton is one of two companies capable of rebuilding property on a mass scale. I don't understand the claim that the Administration's response to Katrina helped to drum up more business for them. Could the Adminstration have kept Katrina from hitting? Given that a public works project involving dams or levys typically take about 10 years to complete, could they have prevented the levy from breaking? By "responding quicker" could they have kept the city from flooding? What exactly is Haliburton rebuilding that wouldn't have been destroyed no matter who was in office?

People are getting loony...
yeah its just a coincidence that Halliburton is a politically connected corporation run by crooks that Cheney used to head and still holds stock in

Why must you constantly bring up this post from the ashes? Make a new thread, with other news and/or opinions. This is getting old.