NationStates Jolt Archive

Here are the links to the scandal no one wants to pay attention to. I won't go into detail since it's being covered quite well by Michelle Malkin (http://michellemalkin.com/archives/003487.htm) and Brian Maloney-Radio Equalizer (http://radioequalizer.blogspot.com/2005/09/franken-drobny-air-america-all-caught.html).
They have documents with Franken's signature on them. Franken denied on the air having this level of knowledge and complicity in the matter. That denial is fisked in detail and reveals that Franken knew that he was being paid with money meant for around 20,000 children, handicapped, and elderly Alzheimer's patients.
Where is the outrage? Why won't the major media in New York cover this story?
<<PLEASE, READ THE STORY BEFORE COMMENTING.>>

Here are the links to the scandal no one wants to pay attention to. I won't go into detail since it's being covered quite well by Michelle Malkin (http://michellemalkin.com/archives/003487.htm) and Brian Maloney-Radio Equalizer (http://radioequalizer.blogspot.com/2005/09/franken-drobny-air-america-all-caught.html).
They have documents with Franken's signature on them. Franken denied on the air having this level of knowledge and complicity in the matter. That denial is fisked in detail and reveals that Franken knew that he was being paid with money meant for around 20,000 children, handicapped, and elderly Alzheimer's patients.
Where is the outrage? Why won't the major media in New York cover this story?
<<PLEASE, READ THE STORY BEFORE COMMENTING.>>
yikes. bad news.

The major media in my opinion is probibly really scared in case the documents turn out to be forged ( happened before)
either that or it is a big liberal media conspiracy(that happened before too)

I don't think anyone really cares. Interesting reading though.

They have Franken's signature on the repayment agreement. NOTARIZED!
These aren't fraudulent docs.

Isn't it kind of ridiculous how far people will reach to discredit a liberal voice that tells it like it is?

Pathetic, really.

I can fake a notarized in Photoshop with ease. Not proof. I agree the media is tired of getting blog-burned by people who don't bother to check sources. Also it is disgustingly easy to become a notary. I know people who have done it, and they are not people I would trust with this type of responsibility.

BTW- as to the liberal media myth, you do realize that most media outlets are owned by Murdhoc, ClearChannel or Disney, don't you? All conservative organizations.

I can fake a notarized in Photoshop with ease. Not proof. I agree the media is tired of getting blog-burned by people who don't bother to check sources. Also it is disgustingly easy to become a notary. I know people who have done it, and they are not people I would trust with this type of responsibility.

BTW- as to the liberal media myth, you do realize that most media outlets are owned by Murdhoc, ClearChannel or Disney, don't you? All conservative organizations.

Not to mention a notary works for about a dollar a document. I could go and get a forged document and walk down to the corner real estate office and have the guy notarize it in 10 minutes. 7 of those minutes would involve me getting dressed.

Honestly, I think it's pretty silly that anyone would cite Malkin as a source for anything. I could just as easily cite the onion for all the credibility involved.

See if its true and can be proven then eventually the mainstream media will report on it, but well.. there is just to much death and destruction for them to focus or care right now about what maybe true in this case.

Isn't it kind of ridiculous how far people will reach to discredit a liberal voice that tells it like it is?

Pathetic, really.

Isn't it kind of ridiculous that Al Franken has discredited himself and you're still defending him?
Reminds me of a joke:
A man's wife walks in on him having sex with a goat. She asks him why he's having sex with a goat and he replies,"Who are you going to believe, me or your lying eyes?"

You may want to get some therapy for your battered wife syndrome.

It makes the titles of his books more ironic as he is as full of crap as any other pundit on the air. :rolleyes:



Here are the links to the scandal no one wants to pay attention to. I won't go into detail since it's being covered quite well by Michelle Malkin (http://michellemalkin.com/archives/003487.htm) and Brian Maloney-Radio Equalizer (http://radioequalizer.blogspot.com/2005/09/franken-drobny-air-america-all-caught.html).
They have documents with Franken's signature on them. Franken denied on the air having this level of knowledge and complicity in the matter. That denial is fisked in detail and reveals that Franken knew that he was being paid with money meant for around 20,000 children, handicapped, and elderly Alzheimer's patients.
Where is the outrage? Why won't the major media in New York cover this story?
<<PLEASE, READ THE STORY BEFORE COMMENTING.>>

Isn't it kind of ridiculous that Al Franken has discredited himself and you're still defending him?
Reminds me of a joke:
A man's wife walks in on him having sex with a goat. She asks him why he's having sex with a goat and he replies,"Who are you going to believe, me or your lying eyes?"

You may want to get some therapy for your battered wife syndrome.

Battered wife syndrome? Huh?

If anyone is battering me its neo-con tools. Little wannabe theocratic fascists who think that anyone who disagrees with them is lower than algae and half as appealing.

FORGED! BWAHAHAHAHAHA
If they are forged then I'd say that Malkin has opened herself up to a winnable libel suit from Franken, etal.
And don't forget the criminal charges for forging a notary's signature. That's just a starter.

Y'know, being that I don't know a single republican who DIDN'T claim the docs on Bush's military service to forged, you strike me as somewhat of a hypocrit.

By now we all know that anything is possible with motivation and some PhotoShop skills. Even without PS skills, Domici was absolutely right. Getting a notary to sign something is easier than shit... easier in most cases than PSing it.

This is worse, far worse, than the deal with Bush's "service" in the TANG. And as for "liberal" media... are you retarded? Do you WATCH TV? Do you HEAR the kinds of things I hear from FOX NEWS, "THE WORLDS LARGEST NEWS NETWORK"? C'mon... you must be blind.

Battered wife syndrome? Huh?

If anyone is battering me its neo-con tools. Little wannabe theocratic fascists who think that anyone who disagrees with them is lower than algae and half as appealing.


NOUN:

1. often Fascist An advocate or adherent of fascism.
2. A reactionary or dictatorial person.

ADJECTIVE:

1. often Fascist Of, advocating, or practicing fascism.
2. Fascist Of or relating to the regime of the Fascisti.


okay i normaly dont like to pay much of these posts any attention but i must say being somone who was born in a nation that once was fascist and having parents who endured through hitlar.. i find your use of the word to be most offensive you have no idea what facism is you dont understand its terrors just because somone insults you does not make them facist it may make them a jerk but that is totaly differant than fascism.. and by you calling him names that brings you to the same ground..

NOUN:
pl. the·oc·ra·cies

1. A government ruled by or subject to religious authority.

yes bush is religious and i may not agree with him putting so much effort on bringing GOd into government however we still do have a senet and a house and judicial brance.. Definitly not Theocracies and you can not be a theocrat and a facist... im not trying to be an ass i am just tired of everyone who disagrees with anyone else calling each other hitlar and nazi and facist... GUYS YOU HAVE NO IDEA I DO... and im sure some of my Euro friends here do as well Learn some new words to use hitlar and the above are used out...

as for the article it does look like Franklin is in trouble sorry if this post makes some people mad it was not my intent

So far as I can tell, none of the "reality based people" here have taken the time to view the information. BE OPEN MINDED ABOUT THIS.
Is it possible that Al Franken isn't all that he claims to be?
IS IT POSSIBLE?
That Franken Kool-Aid must be tasty and strong.
Is it berrylicious?

I'm just gunna sit back and wait for an actual reputable news source that fingers anyone in the current Air America Radio crew for any of this. At this point the allegations against Franken or the current owners are laughable, with the lack of evidence and the lack of officials confirming said allegations.

Gee I wonder why the major conservative networks aren't covering this AT ALL.... must be because it's a bunch of BS.

So far as I can tell, none of the "reality based people" here have taken the time to view the information. BE OPEN MINDED ABOUT THIS.
Is it possible that Al Franken isn't all that he claims to be?
IS IT POSSIBLE?
That Franken Kool-Aid must be tasty and strong.
Is it berrylicious?


I agree anything is possible.. the sad thing about politics is it seems to corupte alot of people democrat and Republican, celebritys are easily corruptible as well. Its sad really

I'd like a source that isn't Michelle Malkin.

NOUN:

1. often Fascist An advocate or adherent of fascism.
2. A reactionary or dictatorial person.

ADJECTIVE:

1. often Fascist Of, advocating, or practicing fascism.
2. Fascist Of or relating to the regime of the Fascisti.


okay i normaly dont like to pay much of these posts any attention but i must say being somone who was born in a nation that once was fascist and having parents who endured through hitlar.. i find your use of the word to be most offensive you have no idea what facism is you dont understand its terrors just because somone insults you does not make them facist it may make them a jerk but that is totaly differant than fascism.. and by you calling him names that brings you to the same ground..

NOUN:
pl. the·oc·ra·cies

1. A government ruled by or subject to religious authority.

yes bush is religious and i may not agree with him putting so much effort on bringing GOd into government however we still do have a senet and a house and judicial brance.. Definitly not Theocracies and you can not be a theocrat and a facist... im not trying to be an ass i am just tired of everyone who disagrees with anyone else calling each other hitlar and nazi and facist... GUYS YOU HAVE NO IDEA I DO... and im sure some of my Euro friends here do as well Learn some new words to use hitlar and the above are used out...

as for the article it does look like Franklin is in trouble sorry if this post makes some people mad it was not my intent

I suggest you look up in a dictionary what "Fascism" means.

And in any case I was calling neo-conservatives wannabe theocratic fascists, which they are, not the government of the United States, which it patently is not.

Although if the neo-cons got their way the US WOULD be that way.

I'm just gunna sit back and wait for an actual reputable news source that fingers anyone in the current Air America Radio crew for any of this. At this point the allegations against Franken or the current owners are laughable.

Gee I wonder why the major conservative networks aren't covering this AT ALL.... must be because it's a bunch of BS.

The allegations against Franken and the current and past owners are being made by the NYC Dept. of Investigation and the Atty. General of NY, Eliot Spitzer. Malkin is using court docs from a case filed by another company who invested in Air America, Multicultural Radio, wherein they claim a "fraudulent conveyence" occurred.
There goes your excuse. Accept the painful truth, let the healing begin.

I suggest you look up in a dictionary what "Fascism" means.

And in any case I was calling neo-conservatives wannabe theocratic fascists, which they are, not the government of the United States, which it patently is not.

Although if the neo-cons got their way the US WOULD be that way.


as i said we lived it... you im assuming have not.. just because somone makes a joke at you views is not fascist.. when they come into your home and shoot you and your family and the people you know than lecture me on fascism

The allegations against Franken and the current and past owners are being made by the NYC Dept. of Investigation and the Atty. General of NY, Eliot Spitzer. Malkin is using court docs from a case filed by another company who invested in Air America, Multicultural Radio, wherein they claim a "fraudulent conveyence" occurred.
There goes your excuse. Accept the painful truth, let the healing begin.


Yeah thats why it's a non-story for anyone except for the right-wing bloggers who are foaming at the mouth over this.

IF there was somethign to this story we would hear about it from a reputable news source.

Besides from what I read the DOI is investigating the misappropriation of federal funds by the Gloria Wise Boys and Girls Club, in a deal made with a previous owner (who was forced to retire because of his scumbaggery) who was part of the AAR parent company and also working with Gloria Wise. A shady "ex"-Republican who has been in other scandals as well.

By all means I think they should pursue this and punish those responsible. I would be surprised if Franken actually had anything to do with this though. Just because a blogger says somethign is true, doesn't make it so, even if they do have the same political beliefs as you.

Here are the links to the scandal no one wants to pay attention to. I won't go into detail since it's being covered quite well by Michelle Malkin (http://michellemalkin.com/archives/003487.htm) and Brian Maloney-Radio Equalizer (http://radioequalizer.blogspot.com/2005/09/franken-drobny-air-america-all-caught.html).

And if Al Franken were an elected public official, I might bring myself to care.

As it is, he's just a private citizen ... a comedian, a writer, and a celebrity. Nothing more.

Edit: As such, I will say that if Rush Limbaugh - a private citizen who also happens to be a comedian, writer, and celebrity - can be not thrown in prison for his drug thing, then Al Franken should be given a medal and a pat on the back as well. Whatcha say?

I'll believe this when I hear it from a credible source. Meaning mainstream UNBIASED media, not someone who is favorably compared to Rush Limbaugh or someone who contributes to Foxnews.

Sumamba:
Name what you would call a 'reputable' news source.
CBS? The Nation? Utne Reader? Worker's World Daily?

What if it's all true?

Sumamba:
Name what you would call a 'reputable' news source.
CBS? The Nation? Utne Reader? Worker's World Daily?

What if it's all true?


You have any stories by any major news networks covering this or only right wing blogs and obscure right-wing newspapers (if that)? Hell even give me a story by FOX news that shows this information that implicates Al Franken as having done anything illegal.

If it's true and what Franken did was illegal and it can be proven then punish the guy. But honestly, I think you are a bit to obsessed with this and all you are doing is getting your arch enemy Air America more publicity.

Good luck on your witch hunt.

I wonder why most of your posts in this forum have been about this Air America thing.

If they (AAR) are losing market share (as many Conservatives keep saying) - what kind of threat are they to anyone on the right? Is it just because you are fighting against corrupt organizations?


Can you imagine working for a company that has a little more than 500 employees and has the following statistics:
* 29 have been accused of spousal abuse
* 7 have been arrested for fraud
* 19 have been accused of writing bad checks
* 117 have directly or indirectly bankrupted at least 2 businesses
* 3 have done time for assault
* 71 cannot get a credit card due to bad credit
* 14 have been arrested on drug-related charges
* 8 have been arrested for shoplifting
* 21 are currently defendants in lawsuits
* 84 have been arrested for drunk driving in the last year...

Can you guess which organization this is?



Give up yet?
It's the 535 members of the United States Congress. The same group that crank out hundreds of new laws each year designed to keep the rest of us in line.

Are you less concerned about our countries leaders being scandelous than you are about some obscure radio station?

Isn't it kind of ridiculous how far people will reach to discredit a liberal voice that tells it like it is?

Pathetic, really.


wow...

I wonder why most of your posts in this forum have been about this Air America thing.

If they (AAR) are losing market share (as many Conservatives keep saying) - what kind of threat are they to anyone on the right? Is it just because you are fighting against corrupt organizations?

Are you less concerned about our countries leaders being scandelous than you are about some obscure radio station?


Two things:

First, the statistics you that you quote someone else as posting are at least partially fabricated. One out of seven congressmen have not been arrested for drunk driving in the last year. That's ludicrious.

Secondly, I think that what ticks off Conservatives about Air America is that liberals have been ripping on Conservative news programs since they started up about 15 years ago, so when an admittedly partisan liberal talk corporation knowingly steals money from needy kiddies to give their CEOs nice Christmas bonuses and liberals actually have the schutzpuh to defend these actions, it's pretty infuriating.

Two things:

First, the statistics you that you quote someone else as posting are at least partially fabricated. One out of seven congressmen have not been arrested for drunk driving in the last year. That's ludicrious.

Secondly, I think that what ticks off Conservatives about Air America is that liberals have been ripping on Conservative news programs since they started up about 15 years ago, so when an admittedly partisan liberal talk corporation knowingly steals money from needy kiddies to give their CEOs nice Christmas bonuses and liberals actually have the schutzpuh to defend these actions, it's pretty infuriating.


okay - I don't know what's true or not with those statistics. I was really using that to illustrate a point that there is huge corruption in our Govt. - do you disagree?

So there are tons of conservative radio talk show and that is a reason to be pissed when liberal one gains some popularity? Oh wait no you said it's cuz they are stealing money from children. Did they really do that? I never read anything about AAR stealing money from anyone. Can you provide a source for that? Or are you just making damning statements that can't be backed up by fact because you don't care what the truth is as long as it makes a liberal look bad?

His lawyer advised him to sign it. What else is the news in this case? I mean, anything real?
Yesterday, Mr. Franken stood by his earlier statement. He said that, on the advice of his lawyer, Gunnar Erickson, he signed the agreement last fall that erased legal claims he had against Messrs. Cohen and Sorensen because they owed him money, but he said he did not see the list of liabilities that included the Gloria Wise transfers.

"I am not an investor, and I didn't see this thing," Mr. Franken, the comedian and best-selling author who hosts Air America's daily show "The O'Franken Factor," said
http://www.nysun.com/article/19659

as i said we lived it... you im assuming have not.. just because somone makes a joke at you views is not fascist.. when they come into your home and shoot you and your family and the people you know than lecture me on fascism

Hitler is not the minimum yardstick necessary for fascist status.

Fascism means an ultra-nationalist form of government with a cult of personality built around an individual and unites corporate and government interests with a violent opposition to some group.

Under Hitler the "some group" was Jews, and everyone who he opposed was accused of being a Jew or a Jewish sympathizer.

Under Bush the group is accused terrorists, not actual terrorists, just the accused ones.

Bush unites state and corporate interests, that's why he appoints so many unqualified people to important government posts. They're there to champion corporate interests in government.

The ultra-nationalism comes in when liberals are accused of being the "blame America first crowd," or not "supporting our troops."

In Bush's own words "things would be a lot easier if this was a dictatorship, just as long as I'm the dictator."

It isn't hyperbole to call Bush a fascist. It may be a debatable point, but it isn't hyperbole.

okay - I don't know what's true or not with those statistics. I was really using that to illustrate a point that there is huge corruption in our Govt. - do you disagree?

So there are tons of conservative radio talk show and that is a reason to be pissed when liberal one gains some popularity? Oh wait no you said it's cuz they are stealing money from children. Did they really do that? I never read anything about AAR stealing money from anyone. Can you provide a source for that? Or are you just making damning statements that can't be backed up by fact because you don't care what the truth is as long as it makes a liberal look bad?

That's not what facts are in conservativeland.

In conservativeland a fact is something that you make up based on a story that has something to do with your statement (or would have if it were true) but is so dry and obtuse that noone is expected to read it, but merely take your digested version of the story. The digested version of the story will strongly resemble most well digested things.

This is why Anne Coulter says that her facts must be true because she has so many end notes. But if you take the time to check her endnotes you see that they're almost all crap, and there's hundreds of them.

Or how Pat Robertson said that Barbara Boxer had to check with Chuck Schumer before making a decision, he was actually citing a story on a conservative satire website (i.e. citing a joke as fact).

That's not what facts are in conservativeland.

In conservativeland a fact is something that you make up based on a story that has something to do with your statement (or would have if it were true) but is so dry and obtuse that noone is expected to read it, but merely take your digested version of the story. The digested version of the story will strongly resemble most well digested things.

This is why Anne Coulter says that her facts must be true because she has so many end notes. But if you take the time to check her endnotes you see that they're almost all crap, and there's hundreds of them.

Or how Pat Robertson said that Barbara Boxer had to check with Chuck Schumer before making a decision, he was actually citing a story on a conservative satire website (i.e. citing a joke as fact).


Yeah, but we can hope that someone like Brian, who constantly gloats about his education in law, would stop making statements like (and I'm paraphrasing here) "Air America is stealing medicine from the elderly and punching little disabled children in their faces". Of course tha's not exactly what he said but it may as well have been as it's based on as much fact as his actual statement.

Sumamba:
If these docs are faked, the people who are claiming they are real will be in for some serious legal problems, civil and criminal.
Would it be worth it if they are so easily dismissed? How hard would it be for Al to come up with the real docs?
His honor and integrity have been INTENTIONALLY impugned and damaged publicly in print. If they aren't for real, that's called LIBEL. Who would open themselves up to not only a libel suit but a complete and utter loss of credibility, which is what Malkin trades on, if it could easily be proven they were forged or falsified? For what gain? Just something to do on a slow Wednesday morning? Maybe she's thinking it's all in good fun and Al will let her off with an apology and hand slap?

You are true to form though. Ignore every link Malkin and Maloney provide you with and ask me to give you rock solid proof? Like I'm going to give the NEW YORK TIMES one dime to prove YOU wrong.
I've read some of your posts (too many actually) and it seems that you tend to engage in sophistry, word games, obfuscation etc. And when the tide is turning on you, you change the subject and throw in some hyperbole as a smoke screen. You have a propensity to hijack threads and lead arguments into exasperating, trivial detail. Your logic is very 'teenager-ish'.
You demand a 'reputable' news source and then, when one is provided, you will say that it's not 'reputable' enough for you.

There's no point in responding to you anymore and I'm ignoring you now and into perpetuity. I suggest everyone else do the same.

The point is Franken tries to come off as some holier than thou anointee of the Left who has penned books like "Lies and the Lying Liars Who Tell Them: A Fair and Balanced Look at the Right " and "The Truth". The irony is that he is being exposed as being just as full of shit as Limbaugh or O' Riley and he's being called on it. If the Left wants to sit in the corner and fling poo expect some to be flung back. What surprises me is that the Left needed so much organisation to mount a radio voice rather than it occurring organicly like it did on the Right. It would tell me the Left is failing in it's core message.

And if Al Franken were an elected public official, I might bring myself to care.

As it is, he's just a private citizen ... a comedian, a writer, and a celebrity. Nothing more.

LET THE LIBERAL DISOWNING OF AL FRANKEN BEGIN! :)

Actually, one reason this does matter is that he was making noises about running for Senate in Minnesota. Aren't we allowed to look at the candidates *before* they make it official? ;p



Edit: As such, I will say that if Rush Limbaugh - a private citizen who also happens to be a comedian, writer, and celebrity - can be not thrown in prison for his drug thing, then Al Franken should be given a medal and a pat on the back as well. Whatcha say?

I'd say that I'm not surprised that you would think stealing from the elderly and from children deserves a medal. That's a very *liberal* sentiment. You are the essence of what being a Democrat is all about. ;)

It would tell me the Left is failing in it's core message.

No ... we're not. You should know by now that people like Franken and Limbaugh are nothing more than clowns ... and not the good kind.

What cracks me up more is that seemingly reasonably intelligent people take Franken as "the voice of the Left" and Limbaugh as "the voice of the Right" when neither is either.

I'd say that if any one person could be pegged for the voice of the Left, it would be John Stewart (Daily Show). Al Franken is funny, love his work, but one can no more take him seriously than Ronald McDonald.

If you do, left or right, then that's just sad.

Actually, one reason this does matter is that he was making noises about running for Senate in Minnesota. Aren't we allowed to look at the candidates *before* they make it official? ;p

He's been doing that for decades. It's a joke. Yeesh.

I'd say that I'm not surprised that you would think stealing from the elderly and from children deserves a medal. That's a very *liberal* sentiment. You are the essence of what being a Democrat is all about. ;)

Maybe you missed the comparison to Limbaugh and his crimes and how he's not in prison and was embraced as a "victim" by the Right. I'll leave you to that.

The point is Franken tries to come off as some holier than thou anointee of the Left who has penned books like "Lies and the Lying Liars Who Tell Them: A Fair and Balanced Look at the Right " and "The Truth". The irony is that he is being exposed as being just as full of shit as Limbaugh or O' Riley and he's being called on it. If the Left wants to sit in the corner and fling poo expect some to be flung back. What surprises me is that the Left needed so much organisation to mount a radio voice rather than it occurring organicly like it did on the Right. It would tell me the Left is failing in it's core message.
He admitted his mistake in signing without reading. It really shows nothing of his character except that he has poor taste in lawyers.

Maybe you missed the comparison to Limbaugh and his crimes and how he's not in prison and was embraced as a "victim" by the Right. I'll leave you to that.

Or maybe *you* missed providing an explanation as to why *you* think doing drugs is supposed to be the same as stealing from children and the elderly?. Please explicate. This should be entertaining. :p

I'll leave you to that. ;)

Sumamba:
If these docs are faked, the people who are claiming they are real will be in for some serious legal problems, civil and criminal.
Would it be worth it if they are so easily dismissed? How hard would it be for Al to come up with the real docs?
His honor and integrity have been INTENTIONALLY impugned and damaged publicly in print. If they aren't for real, that's called LIBEL. Who would open themselves up to not only a libel suit but a complete and utter loss of credibility, which is what Malkin trades on, if it could easily be proven they were forged or falsified? For what gain? Just something to do on a slow Wednesday morning? Maybe she's thinking it's all in good fun and Al will let her off with an apology and hand slap?

You are true to form though. Ignore every link Malkin and Maloney provide you with and ask me to give you rock solid proof? Like I'm going to give the NEW YORK TIMES one dime to prove YOU wrong.
I've read some of your posts (too many actually) and it seems that you tend to engage in sophistry, word games, obfuscation etc. And when the tide is turning on you, you change the subject and throw in some hyperbole as a smoke screen. You have a propensity to hijack threads and lead arguments into exasperating, trivial detail. Your logic is very 'teenager-ish'.
You demand a 'reputable' news source and then, when one is provided, you will say that it's not 'reputable' enough for you.

There's no point in responding to you anymore and I'm ignoring you now and into perpetuity. I suggest everyone else do the same.


I said if Al Franken has been shown to do anything illegal then punish him, didn't I?

If Al Franken lied about knowing his radio station was taking over debts incurred by previous owners, then he's a dumbass for lying. Not so sure that makes him a criminal in anyway though.

What's this about the New York Times? I only asked for a credible news source. If thats too hard for you to find then that's no reason to get all huffy puffy about it and verbally attack me.

as for your "Hey everybody let's ignore Sumamba" :rolleyes: Please - why is it so hard for you to deal with people that have a different viewpoint than you? I didn't attack you did I? I just questioned why you hate Air America so when all you have on their "wrong doing" is apparently they incurred debts from their previous owners. They have said they would pay it back haven't they?

Besides, have you ever signed a contract and not read the whole thing? I have, plenty of times. It's possible that Al Franken did soemthing similar and really didn't know about the debt transaction. Isn't that possible? Could it be he signed what his lawyer put in front of him without reading it, because he trusted his lawyer?

Oh wait, yer ignoring me. Nevermind.

Yep - talking directly to your point and being clear about what I think... sure looks like a lot of word play to me.

My point is that there is a large market for Rightist Radio and almost none on the Left ...are Right wing broadcasters better, or do they have a more popular mesage?


No ... we're not. You should know by now that people like Franken and Limbaugh are nothing more than clowns ... and not the good kind.

What cracks me up more is that seemingly reasonably intelligent people take Franken as "the voice of the Left" and Limbaugh as "the voice of the Right" when neither is either.

I'd say that if any one person could be pegged for the voice of the Left, it would be John Stewart (Daily Show). Al Franken is funny, love his work, but one can no more take him seriously than Ronald McDonald.

If you do, left or right, then that's just sad.

Or maybe *you* missed providing an explanation as to why *you* think doing drugs is supposed to be the same as stealing from children and the elderly?. Please explicate. This should be entertaining. :p

I'll leave you to that. ;)


maybe you and the rest of your conservative buddies who keep making the claim that money has been "stolen" from children and the elderly, could try to prove that point. you can't do it because no one "stole" anything did they?

If he signed any legal document without reading it he's too damn stupid to have his own radio show, or be trusted without adult supervision.




He admitted his mistake in signing without reading. It really shows nothing of his character except that he has poor taste in lawyers.

The point is Franken tries to come off as some holier than thou anointee of the Left who has penned books like "Lies and the Lying Liars Who Tell Them: A Fair and Balanced Look at the Right " and "The Truth". The irony is that he is being exposed as being just as full of shit as Limbaugh or O' Riley and he's being called on it. If the Left wants to sit in the corner and fling poo expect some to be flung back. What surprises me is that the Left needed so much organisation to mount a radio voice rather than it occurring organicly like it did on the Right. It would tell me the Left is failing in it's core message.


questions: What is the lefts core message? what is the rights core message?

Also, Keruvalia is right - anyone who thinks Al Franken is the voice of the left has really got their head so far up their own ass they can see their last meal digesting.

Or maybe *you* missed providing an explanation as to why *you* think doing drugs is supposed to be the same as stealing from children and the elderly?. Please explicate. This should be entertaining. :p


Hey ... a crime's a crime. If Al Franken commited a crime, he should be punished. Say the same thing about Limbaugh, though, and the Right stand up and decry that he was a victim and should be embraced.

If he signed any legal document without reading it he's too damn stupid to have his own radio show, or be trusted without adult supervision.


Well that may make him stupid (although that would make pretty much everyone stupid because nearly everyone signs loans and adoption papers and so many other forms of legal documents without reading every single bit of it. It certainly doesn't make him a criminal or someone who stole money from children and the elderly) - Still that wouldn't make him too stupid for his own radio show because apparently he has one. Jealous much? :p

Franken, and Moore seem to be the self apointed spokesmen of the Left (or more accuratly the Neo-Libs as they have as much to do with true Liberalism as Neo-Cons have to dowith true Convervatism) spread their litany of big Nanny (government programs to coddle you from cradel to grave) vs the fend for yourself message of the Right.




questions: What is the lefts core message? what is the rights core message?

Also, Keruvalia is right - anyone who thinks Al Franken is the voice of the left has really got their head so far up their own ass they can see their last meal digesting.

He admitted his mistake in signing without reading. It really shows nothing of his character except that he has poor taste in lawyers.


Hey Al, here's some legally binding stuff that concerns you. Just sign it and don't ask questions. Sure, you pay me a wagonload of money to fill you in on this sort of thing but not today, I'm feeling kinda unprofessional. Just sign it already.

I'm entirely too inflamitory for radio but I do have a face for it so I'm not jealous. I also read every single word of every contract or legal document I ever sign. If you don't you are bound to get screwed.

Well that may make him stupid (although that would make pretty much everyone stupid because nearly everyone signs loans and adoption papers and so many other forms of legal documents without reading every single bit of it. It certainly doesn't make him a criminal or someone who stole money from children and the elderly) - Still that wouldn't make him too stupid for his own radio show because apparently he has one. Jealous much? :p

Hey Al, here's some legally binding stuff that concerns you. Just sign it and don't ask questions. Sure, you pay me a wagonload of money to fill you in on this sort of thing but not today, I'm feeling kinda unprofessional. Just sign it already.

In Al's defense, he was probably drunk and stoned. ;)

Hey Al, here's some legally binding stuff that concerns you. Just sign it and don't ask questions. Sure, you pay me a wagonload of money to fill you in on this sort of thing but not today, I'm feeling kinda unprofessional. Just sign it already.


Or:

Hey Al, heres a document that states your radio station will incur all the legal responsibilities from your parent company. It lists all those responsibilities here. Most of the board members who actually handle this stuff are aware of it all. You gotta sign too it if you want to radio station to continue functioning.

In Al's defense, he was probably drunk and stoned. ;)

!0!

funny and most probably true.

If he signed any legal document without reading it he's too damn stupid to have his own radio show, or be trusted without adult supervision.

Oh come on ... how much can be expected from Stuart Smalley?

http://digitaltirade.com/Rants/archives/stuartSmalley.jpg

If he signed any legal document without reading it he's too damn stupid to have his own radio show, or be trusted without adult supervision.

You know, I could swear he hired a lawyer to help him with that legal detail... except the lawyer turned out to be an asswipe who was in on the scam and had him sign the contract anyways.

Wooooow... corrupt lawyers? Oh noes! Such a horrible thing could never happen here in America!!

:rolleyes:

Franken, and Moore seem to be the self apointed spokesmen

Aye ... self appointed .... self. I didn't give either of them permission to speak for me and if I'm in the room with them, if they do, I'll tell them both (Smalley and the Buffalo) to cram it with sand.

I am my own voice. If you disagree with me, talk to me. Quoting Franken and Moore to me does no more good than quoting the Bible or a Star Trek film.

I'm entirely too inflamitory for radio but I do have a face for it so I'm not jealous. I also read every single word of every contract or legal document I ever sign. If you don't you are bound to get screwed.


I don't and I've signed a lot of contracts. My car loan, home loan, stuff for court... I sign it all because I can't read several pages of legalese and know what the hell it means. I just tell them to give me the gist and sign it if I agree with it. I skim a bit though. I may be stupid for it but I haven't gotten screwed over yet. Perhaps Franken did the same... agreed to incur whatever debts by the parent company without knowing the details of each and every debt. Maybe he was just concerned about the total debt amount and didn't care about each individual one. Either way, is what he did criminal? No, I don't mean in yoru opinion.. What does the law say in situations like this?

Wooooow... corrupt lawyers? Oh noes!

Say it isn't so!!

:upyours: Thanks ever so much for the single most disturbing and disgusting mental image I've encountered in months :upyours:


:gundge: <---- *me puking on your carpet*

;) Nah, I'm not really mad. But dude, that thread title really did give me the MOST dfisgusting mental image. Be careful what you say. There are Artists around here. We can't alwys stop our overactive imaginations from kicking in before its too late. Why do you think we're all so fcuk'dup to begin with?

:gundge: <---- *me puking on your carpet*


You're cleaning that.

Isn't it kind of ridiculous how far people will reach to discredit a liberal voice that tells it like it is?

Pathetic, really.

You mean like when Dan Rather presented the forged documents on George W Bush? :p

You're cleaning that.


Hell no. They're the ones that brought it on. (thus making me bring up)

I'm entirely too inflamitory for radio but I do have a face for it so I'm not jealous. I also read every single word of every contract or legal document I ever sign. If you don't you are bound to get screwed.

Too inflamitory for radio? Unless you mean that you literally burst into flames periodicly, and would pose a danger to expensive studio equipment, there's no such thing as too inflammitory for radio. At least in American radio where Rush Limbaugh accused Clinton of being a cocaine smuggling serial rapist and Randi Rhodes accusing Bush of being guilty of negligent homocide.

Isn't it kind of ridiculous that Al Franken has discredited himself and you're still defending him?
Reminds me of a joke:
A man's wife walks in on him having sex with a goat. She asks him why he's having sex with a goat and he replies,"Who are you going to believe, me or your lying eyes?"

You may want to get some therapy for your battered wife syndrome.
HAHAHAHAHAHA

Battered wife syndrome? Huh?

If anyone is battering me its neo-con tools. Little wannabe theocratic fascists who think that anyone who disagrees with them is lower than algae and half as appealing.
Didn't fo much to prove him wrong, there, did ya?

HAHAHAHAHHAH

questions: What is the lefts core message? what is the rights core message?
Pick me, pick me.

The left's core message is that the right (especially Bush) is evil and stupid. The right's core message is that the left is evil and crazy. Some people get confused because beyond their core messages the left sometimes calls the right stupid, evil and crazy while the right sometimes calls the left crazy, evil and stupid, but those are extensions beyond the core message.

Pick me, pick me.

The left's core message is that the right (especially Bush) is evil and stupid. The right's core message is that the left is evil and crazy. Some people get confused because beyond their core messages the left sometimes calls the right stupid, evil and crazy while the right sometimes calls the left crazy, evil and stupid, but those are extensions beyond the core message.


Although that answer isn't in the teachers edition, it does seem to be a generally accepted answer on Nationstates, meaning you have shown that you have the ability to learn so you get a silver star.

Having read Malkin's post on this issue, let me preface with the statement that Al Franken's survival or lack therof makes about as much diference to me as that of Rush, Sean, or Bill.

They are ALL blowhards who's opinion is given far more weight than it should by those incapable of thinking for themselves.

I mean, hell, if Jimmy Swaggart couold keep getting caught with hookers and keep a lot of his ministry sending funds, why should any other ersatz demagogue having blinded supporters suprise you? And why should anyone else think that it is indicitive of anything besides the stupidity of SOME people.


Now, that being said, I could drive a few trucks through some of Michelle's statements.

For example when she accuses Al of duplicity with the section:

"Yet another Franken untruth:

And just as that was happening, the Gloria Wise Boys and Girls Club went belly up, and started being investigated by the state, or the city, or something, and so this all halted that.

Also false: Franken’s claim that “the Gloria Wise Boys and Girls Club went belly up.” The Club is still operative. "


Fact is that "going belly up" and "ceasing operations" are two VERY different things. Going belly up to me implies bankruptcy, and organizations are fully capable of seeking bankruptcy protection while continuing operations. If the organization went through bankruptcy and restructuring but continued operations, then Al was not lying with his statement.

She also attempts to imply complicity due to the clause in the agreement that insisted that the former director still be made available for continuing legal needs as required by these repayments. Frankly, that is standard legal boilerplate when executives leave a corporation and has no bearing on Franken's feelings or characterization as to the former director's competence or honesty.


Finally, so many sections imply deceit but are missing valuable timeline data. For example:

FRANKEN: So, um, we had to do, forensic, or not we, but the guys who run the thing, the new management, did forensic accounting, and discovered this big loan from this Boys and Girls Club, and Rob Glaser, the new guy, who is the head of this new company Piquant, said OK, we don't legally have to pay it back, because we're a different company I guess, but we morally do, so they start making arrangements to pay it back.

THE TRUTH: Franken suggests that Piquant had no legal obligation to repay the Gloria Wise loan. This is patently false. The settlement agreement, which is legally binding, requires Piquant to pay back the loan. Franken signed that agreement (see above) and unless he has an evil twin, he knew exactly what he was doing and what was in the agreement--and signed it knowingly and freely


So what is the exact context of the Franken quote? For example, if they did the forensics, discovered the loan, decided that they were morally obligated to make the payment and THEN signed the agreement to repay, then her claiming that he was lying because of the agreement to repay is pure bullshit. That agreement is then the very arrangement that he mentioned regarding the repayment. Because he is still talking about things earlier in the chain of events and she is stating that this is all to be taken to be AFTER the agreement to repay. So his statement could very well be correct, not false.



All this documentation seems to bring to light is that maybe Al knew about these loans before he claims to have. They show nothing that makes him aware of them BEFORE they were made, nor show any involvement in anything beyond the attempt to repay them.


So, are people really that concerned about a guy who signed the paperwork to REPAY a charity funds owed it? Is that a bad thing now?




And besides, it's only Al Franken?

Who really cares?

The Downmarching Void:

I guess it is a sort of verbal Rohrshach test.
I was thinking - unscheduled prostate exam, which made me laugh.
You were thinking of Al gently moaning and...and...OK, it's bath time now.

No ... we're not. You should know by now that people like Franken and Limbaugh are nothing more than clowns ... and not the good kind.

What cracks me up more is that seemingly reasonably intelligent people take Franken as "the voice of the Left" and Limbaugh as "the voice of the Right" when neither is either.

I'd say that if any one person could be pegged for the voice of the Left, it would be John Stewart (Daily Show). Al Franken is funny, love his work, but one can no more take him seriously than Ronald McDonald.

If you do, left or right, then that's just sad.

I don't know who takes Al Franken to be the voice of the left. Even other people on the same network don't seem to care much for him. Mark Maron calls him "...Franken," and on Janneane Garofalo's show they call him "certain comedians who used to be on Saturday Night Live and aren't hosts of this show, but are on this network."

If people on his own network speak ill of him for not being quite liberal enough, then he's hardly "the Voice of the Left."

As for Jon Stewart, sure he's to the left of Bush, but anyone with at least half a brain and heart is. Stewart is only on the side of not being completly rediculous.

Afterall, he criticized the pro-choice group that opposed Roberts, and he has recently had Trent Lott on his show. He had Zell fricken Miller on his show. He's hardly the voice of the left, he's just the voice of reason.

maybe you and the rest of your conservative buddies who keep making the claim that money has been "stolen" from children and the elderly, could try to prove that point. you can't do it because no one "stole" anything did they?

Ask and it shall be given unto you. Seek and ye shall find! :)


http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=436202

BTW, when 875,000 dollars gets embezzled it isn't that hard to show that money has been stolen. :p

Hey ... a crime's a crime.

So you are truly unable to distinguish between jaywalking and murder and would punish or excuse both in the same proportion? o_O

I guess that explains a lot about liberals. @_@

I As for Jon Stewart . . . He's hardly the voice of the left, he's just the voice of reason.While more than a little true, the sad part is that he is a commedian. He is not however on the side of not being completely ridiculous as you claim, it is only that as hard as he tries to be completely ridiculous he hasn't the skill for it that others have.

While more than a little true, the sad part is that he is a commedian. He is not however on the side of not being completely ridiculous as you claim, it is only that as hard as he tries to be completely ridiculous he hasn't the skill for it that others have.

As Jon Stewart would say: Whaaaaaa??/?slash?

While more than a little true, the sad part is that he is a commedian. He is not however on the side of not being completely ridiculous as you claim, it is only that as hard as he tries to be completely ridiculous he hasn't the skill for it that others have.

The segments that they do aren't exactly rediculous, but they're not supposed to be. They're ridicule.

But his opening headlines (which are about 90% of what I watch his show for) all seem to be about pointing out how completly absurd the things that get said on TV are.

Pat Robertson claimed not to have called for assassination, then Stewart showed the footage of him doing it.

George Bush claimed to be opposed to euthanasia because of deeply held moral principles, then Jon Stewart pointed out (or showed footage of someone else pointing out) that Governor Bush signed a pro-euthanasia bill in Texas.

The head of FEMA claimed not to have known about the people in the Convention center, so Stewart played the footage of Ted Koppel (?) asking the guy "don't you people have televisions?"

As far as the sad part being a comedian, that's not sad at all. The classic purpose of comedy is to point out where people are acting like idiots. Sure there's plenty of comedy based on nothing more enlightened than farting and sexual humiliation, but Jon Stewart is a comedian of the classic stripe. As one of his guests said, "If Mark Twain were alive today, he'd be working at Comedy Central." Presumably he wasn't talking about Crank Yankers.

He's hardly the voice of the left, he's just the voice of reason.

The voice of the Left *is* the voice of reason.

So you are truly unable to distinguish between jaywalking and murder and would punish or excuse both in the same proportion? o_O

I guess that explains a lot about liberals. @_@

Wow ... your side dearly loves grasping at straws and misinterpreting what someone has said.

I hope that serves you well in the upcoming elections.

Wow ... your side dearly loves grasping at straws and misinterpreting what someone has said.

I hope that serves you well in the upcoming elections.

*Is* it misinterpretation? I notice that you couldn't bring yourself to answer the question. :rolleyes:

Isn't it kind of ridiculous how far people will reach to discredit a liberal voice that tells it like it is?

Pathetic, really.

If this were a conservative talk show host (think Rush Limbaugh) we were talking about here, they would be demanding his head on a stick right now. Al Franken signed off on it. Plain and simple. It is close to being the same as an admission of guilt.He should be brought up on charges of fraud, if it is proven that he had prior knowledge.

And you are suggesting that just because he shares your liberal views he should go free?

Pathetic indeed.

As far as the sad part being a comedian, that's not sad at all. The classic purpose of comedy is to point out where people are acting like idiots. Sure there's plenty of comedy based on nothing more enlightened than farting and sexual humiliation, but Jon Stewart is a comedian of the classic stripe. As one of his guests said, "If Mark Twain were alive today, he'd be working at Comedy Central." Presumably he wasn't talking about Crank Yankers.I supose it wouldn't be sad if there were a solid alternative to him for the voice of reason, but if you want to listen to voice of reason on the national US level, it's pretty much Stewart or Leher and lots of people don't trust Leher. Stewart has tried to be completely ridiculous (remember News For Kids), but no matter how hard he tried he could never be as ridiculous as either of the two heavy-weight blowhards on talk raadio (one left and mentioned in the title of this thread, one right and mentioned in this thread whom the other call a "big fat idiot").

I would just like to see him hoisted on his own petard after all the crap he's spouted and the now ironic titles of his books. It's almost as good as Limbaugh being an addict ..almost. I'm a big fan on irony.

If this were a conservative talk show host (think Rush Limbaugh) we were talking about here, they would be demanding his head on a stick right now. Al Franken signed off on it. Plain and simple. It is close to being the same as an admission of guilt.He should be brought up on charges of fraud, if it is proven that he had prior knowledge.

And you are suggesting that just because he shares your liberal views he should go free?

Pathetic indeed.

You mean like how Limbaugh declared all drug addicts should be put behind bars for life just before the Oxycontin story broke and the Busheviks suddenly coddled him as a victim instead of a criminal? Riiiight (pun intended). When Limbaugh gets put behind bars according to the standards he set for others in his position, then Al Franken gets sent up the river if he's guilty.

If this were a conservative talk show host (think Rush Limbaugh) we were talking about here, they would be demanding his head on a stick right now. Al Franken signed off on it. Plain and simple. It is close to being the same as an admission of guilt.He should be brought up on charges of fraud, if it is proven that he had prior knowledge.

And you are suggesting that just because he shares your liberal views he should go free?

Pathetic indeed.


How is signing a contract that agrees to take over the debts of a parent company equal to fraud? What crime did Franken commit by agreeing to have the radio station pay back what it owes? It's not like Franken was there for the initial deal of taking the money being loaned to the parent company. If he really did read the contract and knew of that specific debt *instead of just signing a contract and not lookign at every specific detail*, then he is only guilty of being a liar. Still, one liar can point out the lies of another liar. We all lie and we all point out the lies of others. See how that works?