NationStates Jolt Archive

You must believe that the traditional family structure is inheritantly
wrong and that it doesn't matter if lots of children are being brought
up in delinquent or fatherless homes.

You must believe that people should be payed not on the basis of
performance or the ability to do the job, but on the basis that they
should not be payed more than a person of the opposite gender doing
the same job.

You must believe that it is more important that the ethnic makeup of a
company's or an institution's membership reflects the ethnic makeup of
the general population, than is the standard of the company's or
institution's output or productivity.

You must believe that a criminal who has harmed a victim should not be
punished and that a victim who resorts to self defence is in the wrong
because they had money and a job and the criminal didn't.

You must believe that there should be no one accepted standard for
behaviour in public and that badly or antisocially behaved people should
never be punished no matter how many times they have been warned
or threatened.

You must believe that all tradition is wrong and should be totally
changed even if a traditional method works perfectly well with no
findable flaws.

You must believe that an individual country should surrender its own
lawmaking practices and constitutional freedoms and instead have its
laws mandated by a federal bureaucracy in another country over a
thousand miles away.

You must believe that a country's economy can only be successful if
it combines with other countries into a one-size-fits-all economic
policy an a single monetary union.

You must believe that all religion is bad and can only be used for evil
and destructive purposes even when some of the most effective and
caring people in history justified thier actions on a religious base.

This never stops being true. :p

:rolleyes:



No! Your Mom!

I cant decide whether I dislike liberals or conservatives more. On the one hand, liberals are so un-egalitarian it's not funny, on the other hands conservatives seem to confuse socialists and liberals which I find quite insulting. Hmmm. Oh well, at least you're not anarchists :)

It's sad to think that you probably assume you've made a valid point here.

Support your argument or get the hell out. Thankyou. Have a very nice day.

Next?!

Wow so People DO KNOW the Truth!

Whew though i was going a bit bonkers that no one noticed.

Rich

Didn't we just have this threads mirror a week ago or so?

How this will go:

Conservatives: "All true"
Liberals" "No it's not"
C: Yes it is.
L : Posts how to be a conservative
L: This is really true
C No it's not.

*Gets popcorn*

To be a Conservative you must copy and paste complete b****ks you recieve via email forwards into forums pretending to be clever despite the fact you probably couldn't think this up yourself.

Nice one. :rolleyes:

If you think that liberals and conservatives fit into nice simple black and white catagories then I would say you either don't know enough about political beliefs, therefore proving what i said above or you're being a troll.

You must believe that the traditional family structure is inheritantly
wrong and that it doesn't matter if lots of children are being brought
up in delinquent or fatherless homes.

You must believe that people should be payed not on the basis of
performance or the ability to do the job, but on the basis that they
should not be payed more than a person of the opposite gender doing
the same job.

You must believe that a criminal who has harmed a victim should not be
punished and that a victim who resorts to self defence is in the wrong
because they had money and a job and the criminal didn't.

You must believe that there should be no one accepted standard for
behaviour in public and that badly or antisocially behaved people should
never be punished no matter how many times they have been warned
or threatened.

You must believe that all tradition is wrong and should be totally
changed even if a traditional method works perfectly well with no
findable flaws.

You must believe that an individual country should surrender its own
lawmaking practices and constitutional freedoms and instead have its
laws mandated by a federal bureaucracy in another country over a
thousand miles away.

You must believe that a country's economy can only be successful if
it combines with other countries into a one-size-fits-all economic
policy an a single monetary union.

You must believe that all religion is bad and can only be used for evil
and destructive purposes even when some of the most effective and
caring people in history justified thier actions on a religious base. Well done, I'm a liberal and I don't fit a single one of your points… quite the opposite in fact (I hope). O'course, one man's liberal is another man's commie bastard. :(

Well done, I'm a liberal and I don't fit a single one of your points… quite the opposite in fact (I hope). O'course, one man's liberal is another man's commie bastard. :(

If you are not quite an arch-conservative, then maybe you are a compassionate conservative or a "progressive centrist", as Clinton described himself. However, you are probably not a liberal.

Your mind seems to only work in black and white. I believe any kind of family structure is better than none at all. Most of your points are worded in such an extreme way that almost no-one would agree to them.

To be a liberal, you must be God.

See, I can pull definitions out of a hat without offering proof too.

Support your argument or get the hell out.

If you are not quite an arch-conservative, then maybe you are a compassionate conservative or a "progressive centrist", as Clinton described himself. However, you are probably not a liberal. Let me see… my political compass score (just taken for a politics class) was economically -5, socially 0. I believe that even things which are wrong should not be banned by law unless they pose a threat to others, and I'm for free trade with certain restrictions and a certain level of welfare. I'll probably vote Lib Dem when I can. That's pretty liberal, certainly not arch conservative.

Seriously, how many have we had of these?

And is there any point whatsoever trying to reasonably argue against these?

Seriously, how many have we had of these?

And is there any point whatsoever trying to reasonably argue against these?

*Hands Glitziness some popcorn*

Just sit back and warm yourself by the flames.

Apparantly, to be a conservative one must be a shameless troll. :rolleyes:

I could refute you point-by-point, but what would be the point? You probably aren't willing to have your nice, tidy world-view compromised by anything so mundane as the truth.

Let me see… my political compass score (just taken for a politics class) was economically -5, socially 0. I believe that even things which are wrong should not be banned by law unless they pose a threat to others, and I'm for free trade with certain restrictions and a certain level of welfare. I'll probably vote Lib Dem when I can. That's pretty liberal, certainly not arch conservative.

The Lib Dems wanted to raise the criminal age so that young offenders could not be punished no matter how many warnings they got or how serious thier offense was.

I believe that even things which are wrong should not be banned by law unless they pose a threat to others

That is a libertarian view, not a liberal view. It is liberals that propose ID cards and that support all this petty legislation on personal behaviour simply because a few shiftless scroungers have to be stopped from making the wrong decisions and getting themselves into trouble.

You must believe that the traditional family structure is inheritantly wrong and that it doesn't matter if lots of children are being brought up in delinquent or fatherless homes.

Traditional family structure, eh? You mean parents, grandparents, aunts, uncles, cousins, older siblings all pitching in to keep a family running and raise younger children? Actually, I'm all for that. And, of course, when you have so many role models, the lack of a single father- or mother- figure really isn't felt - you have several of each.

You must believe that people should be payed not on the basis of performance or the ability to do the job, but on the basis that they should not be payed more than a person of the opposite gender doing the same job.

These two are not mutually exclusive.

You must believe that a criminal who has harmed a victim should not be punished and that a victim who resorts to self defence is in the wrong
because they had money and a job and the criminal didn't.

I can't think of a single person who thinks that a criminal should not be punished for their crimes. Some of us are simply compassionate enough to realize that many people are driven to criminal actions out of desperation, and to want to help them get out of that desperation, as well as fix their crimes. Locking someone up behind bars is all well and good, but if you don't try and rehabilitate them, they are simply going to do it again, because they have nothing else to keep themselves alive.

You must believe that there should be no one accepted standard for
behaviour in public and that badly or antisocially behaved people should never be punished no matter how many times they have been warned or threatened.

Are we talking, like, "Don't keep your hat on during dinner", or are we talking, "Don't defecate on the sidewalk"?

You must believe that all tradition is wrong and should be totally changed even if a traditional method works perfectly well with no findable flaws.

Never met a single person that met this one either. I would say that tradition alone is never a good argument in favor of something if it seems to harm others in any way.

You must believe that an individual country should surrender its own
lawmaking practices and constitutional freedoms and instead have its laws mandated by a federal bureaucracy in another country over a thousand miles away.

Never met anyone who thought this either. I suppose you may be refering to the UN. Of course, the US voluntarily entered into the UN, as did the other countries that are a part of it. Thus, they didn't surrender their practices and freedoms, they voluntarily made the UN a part of them.

You must believe that a country's economy can only be successful if
it combines with other countries into a one-size-fits-all economic policy an a single monetary union.

There is no such thing as a one-size-fits-all economic policy.

You must believe that all religion is bad and can only be used for evil
and destructive purposes even when some of the most effective and
caring people in history justified thier actions on a religious base.

All liberals are atheists, then? Interesting. So liberals only make up, what, 4% or so of the entire world population?

*Hands Glitziness some popcorn*

Just sit back and warm yourself by the flames....uncontrollable...urge....to....use....logic!

First point...







Ooo! Popcorn!

The Lib Dems wanted to raise the criminal age so that young offenders could not be punished no matter how many warnings they got or how serious thier offense was.



That is a libertarian view, not a liberal view. It is liberals that propose ID cards and that support all this petty legislation on personal behaviour simply because a few shiftless scroungers have to be stopped from making the wrong decisions and getting themselves into trouble. ID cards were proposed by Labour, who are getting more right wing, and opposed by both the Tories and the Lib Dems. Lib Dems oppose mandatory life sentences for murder, which is good, since sometimes murder isn't such a bad crime. Don't believe me, see how you feel if your daughter's raped. (extreme example I know, but gets peoples' attention)

That is a libertarian view, not a liberal view. It is liberals that propose ID cards and that support all this petty legislation on personal behaviour simply because a few shiftless scroungers have to be stopped from making the wrong decisions and getting themselves into trouble.Huh? I'm pretty damn sure a "typical liberal" would oppose ID cards in the argument of personal freedoms, you know, what "liberals" generally support.

I use speechmarks because the terms are all pretty meaningless considering you rarely get two people who think exactly the same way, let alone a whole group of supporters of a party.

This never stops being true. :p

Just like the cheese based nature of the moon and the Storkist view of reproduction.

You can't stop what's never started.

Liberals don't believe any of those things.
The Republican equvilant however is taken right from the modern political speeches of Republican politicians.

I can't think of a single person who thinks that a criminal should not be punished for their crimes.

Ever heard of the journalist Polly Toynbee or the justice chief Lord Woolf? Even Cherie Blair said that we shouldn't lock up mothers or underaged offenders.

You must believe............

A liberal mustn't do anything should they not be inclined to do so.

Eurosceptics, you have it just wrong...

You must believe that the traditional family structure is inheritantly
wrong and that it doesn't matter if lots of children are being brought
up in delinquent or fatherless homes.


To be a liberal you must realize that a child is best in a home with two parrents but unfortunately this does not always happen and the children without these homes need MORE support than those with two parrents.

You must believe that people should be payed not on the basis of
performance or the ability to do the job, but on the basis that they
should not be payed more than a person of the opposite gender doing
the same job.

To be a liberal you must believe that women and men deserve the same pay for the same performance (including quality) and that to not give the same is sexism.

You must believe that a criminal who has harmed a victim should not be
punished and that a victim who resorts to self defence is in the wrong
because they had money and a job and the criminal didn't.

To be a liberal you must believe that criminals (rich and poor) should be held to the same standard of justice and money should not be able to buy a verdict.

You must believe that there should be no one accepted standard for
behaviour in public and that badly or antisocially behaved people should
never be punished no matter how many times they have been warned
or threatened.

To be a liberal you must acknowledge there are different moralities that come from diffeent belief systems and the only question that should be secularly enforced is, "Does this action physically harm or threaten another."

You must believe that all tradition is wrong and should be totally
changed even if a traditional method works perfectly well with no
findable flaws.

To be a liberal you must acknowledge that arguments from authority are just about useless and it is the reasons not the voice behind an argument that makes it good or bad.


You must believe that an individual country should surrender its own
lawmaking practices and constitutional freedoms and instead have its
laws mandated by a federal bureaucracy in another country over a
thousand miles away.

To be a liberal you must believe that every nation has the same rights as this one, and to force our answers on another is the purest form of egotism


You must believe that a country's economy can only be successful if
it combines with other countries into a one-size-fits-all economic
policy an a single monetary union.[QUOTE]

To be a liberal you must believe that the economy rests on the shoulders of the middle and lower classes and the better off they are the better the economy will do.

[QUOTE=Ranting Eurosceptics]You must believe that all religion is bad and can only be used for evil
and destructive purposes even when some of the most effective and
caring people in history justified thier actions on a religious base.

To be a liberal you must acknowledge your faith is no more inherantly right than your neighbor's and it is as wrong to force your neighbor into yours as it is for him to force you into yours. You mus acknowledge that religion has been a fundamental aspect in the greatest heros and the worst madmen and demand that your own religion practice justice tempered with kindness and forgiveness.

Didn't we just have this threads mirror a week ago or so?

How this will go:

Conservatives: "All true"
Liberals" "No it's not"
C: Yes it is.
L : Posts how to be a conservative
L: This is really true
C No it's not.

*Gets popcorn*

Sadly, when I've posted the other one, conservatives then argue how it's right, not how they don't actually believe it.

I thought I was not a liberal, but by your standards, I should be one.
You must believe that the traditional family structure is inheritantly
wrong and that it doesn't matter if lots of children are being brought
up in delinquent or fatherless homes.
Quite, except the delinquence bit which is a matter of point of view. From your point of view, delinquent = you're not a conservative, you're poor and you steal the rich with social benefits.

You must believe that people should be payed not on the basis of
performance or the ability to do the job, but on the basis that they
should not be payed more than a person of the opposite gender doing
the same job.True. All people have the same right to live a confortable life, no matter their sex, their race, their nationality or their social class. Performance is relative to your ability. And being a fat ass capitalist sucking goods on the back of the workers and making a lot of money isn't quite what I call performance.

You must believe that a criminal who has harmed a victim should not be
punished and that a victim who resorts to self defence is in the wrong
because they had money and a job and the criminal didn't.
Except I don't call him a criminal, I call that justice. He's just getting his rights back. Everybody has the right to a job and to live a confortable life. He's a criminal in your view because anything which is not rich, conservative, fat assed and christian is criminal.

You must believe that there should be no one accepted standard for
behaviour in public and that badly or antisocially behaved people should
never be punished no matter how many times they have been warned
or threatened.
I believe those warning or threatening the proletarians should be the one to be punished, not those at the bottom trying to survive among your capitalist sponsored militia they call police.

You must believe that all tradition is wrong and should be totally
changed even if a traditional method works perfectly well with no
findable flaws.

Your so called church sponsored bourgeois traditions are exactly the ones you talk about.

You must believe that an individual country should surrender its own
lawmaking practices and constitutional freedoms and instead have its
laws mandated by a federal bureaucracy in another country over a
thousand miles away.

Exactly. Because there is no such thing as individual freedom or natinal freedom. Freedom is for everybody. You're not defending the freedom of a nation, you're fighting the freedom of the people outside of your nation. Freedom isn't worthy if it is not the universal freedom of all, it's just a propangandish tool for getting support of your naive petit bourgeois, no more.

You must believe that a country's economy can only be successful if
it combines with other countries into a one-size-fits-all economic
policy an a single monetary union.

There is no such thing as 'an economy'. There is only one economy. Being wealthy at the expense of the third world is not having a good economy, it is exploitation. Economy involves production and consumption, and not finance and exploitation.
Incidentally, bourgeois economics are out-dated.

You must believe that all religion is bad and can only be used for evil
and destructive purposes even when some of the most effective and
caring people in history justified thier actions on a religious base.What is the point you're not getting? Justifying a good action with full-of-bullshit obscurantism doesn't make full-of-bullshit obscurantism good.

To be a liberal you must realize that a child is best in a home with two parrents I'd disagree. I'd say there are more important things than having two parents. I'd say a child is best in a home with a loving, supporting environment and the number of parents or whether they're biological parents or what gender the parents are etc etc comes after.

What struck me is that this:
You must believe that the traditional family structure is inheritantly
wrong and that it doesn't matter if lots of children are being brought
up in delinquent or fatherless homes.seems similar to pro-life views (which tend to be held by conservative) that don't seem to mind if children are brought up in families which can't provide for or support the child and will mean a very poor standard of life for the child.

And lets not get into that whole debate. Just an observation of mine which I'm fully aware pro-life people who hold this view will disagree with and counter.

On a more general note: I find it very disturbing that many conservatives use the term 'liberal' in such a degrading and offending manner. As if liberals were the evil personified.
Sorry, that I reply to a rant with just another rant, but I felt like it. Nowadays, you're being attacked by narrow-minded people, who regard themselves as conservatives. :(

I'd disagree. I'd say there are more important things than having two parents. I'd say a child is best in a home with a loving, supporting environment and the number of parents or whether they're biological parents or what gender the parents are etc etc comes after.


Bah... you are absolutely right. What I was trying to say is that it is most important that children have a family that is a good support system and that children without this system need more help, not to be spit on.

On a more general note: I find it very disturbing that many conservatives use the term 'liberal' in such a degrading and offending manner. As if liberals were the evil personified.
Sorry, that I reply to a rant with just another rant, but I felt like it. Nowadays, you're being attacked by narrow-minded people, who regard themselves as conservatives. :(
Liberals are conservative in many ways.

When will all of this illogical stereotyping stop! My friend and fellow consevative if you want to support the cause of conservatism, capitalism, and republicanism, then join me in debating the issues. All you are doing is hurting us and stifling the logical truth we are trying to put forward. Let us return now to intelligence......if you have it in you.

When will all of this illogical stereotyping stop! My friend and fellow consevative if you want to support the cause of conservatism, capitalism, and republicanism, then join me in debating the issues. All you are doing is hurting us and stifling the logical truth we are trying to put forward. Let us return now to intelligence......if you have it in you.
They are afraid because they are out-dated.
Discussion is pointless. They'll fight for their privilege with all they have, but they don't have intelligent arguments. They have the media, the police, the weapons, the government, the church and the wealth instead.

You must believe that the traditional family structure is inheritantly
wrong and that it doesn't matter if lots of children are being brought
up in delinquent or fatherless homes.

No, to be liberal means you are smart enough to realize that just because a family is not the traditional family doesn't necessarily mean it's a bad family.


You must believe that people should be payed not on the basis of
performance or the ability to do the job, but on the basis that they
should not be payed more than a person of the opposite gender doing
the same job.

Quite the opposite - we believe that people should be paid on the basis of performance or ability and should not be paid less on the basis that they're of the opposite gender of someone doing the same job.


You must believe that a criminal who has harmed a victim should not be
punished and that a victim who resorts to self defence is in the wrong
because they had money and a job and the criminal didn't.

I'm not going to defend people who think that... I agree criminal rights is the biggest load of bs and we should just leave all criminals to rot in their own shit.


You must believe that there should be no one accepted standard for
behaviour in public and that badly or antisocially behaved people should
never be punished no matter how many times they have been warned
or threatened.

No, we believe that it's stupid to be a mindless sheep and conform to what everyone else does just because that's what everyone else does.


You must believe that all tradition is wrong and should be totally
changed even if a traditional method works perfectly well with no
findable flaws.

I don't even know where this one comes from. If it's about unnecessary places like Home Depot or Disneyland being open on holidays then that's people on both ends of the political spectrum rewarding that.


You must believe that an individual country should surrender its own
lawmaking practices and constitutional freedoms and instead have its
laws mandated by a federal bureaucracy in another country over a
thousand miles away.

No, that's the Republican party insisting that one right now. Afterall, isn't that why we invaded Iraq? There clearly were no WMDs and there were countries like North Korea that had dipshits in charge far more brutal than Saddam.


You must believe that a country's economy can only be successful if
it combines with other countries into a one-size-fits-all economic
policy an a single monetary union.

Meh... I'm not really sure if this is a part-specific issue or not....


You must believe that all religion is bad and can only be used for evil
and destructive purposes even when some of the most effective and
caring people in history justified thier actions on a religious base.

That is a horrible lie. But just for shits and giggles, let's pretend it's true.
Well, considering what's going on, what else are you supposed to think? We re-elect a president who starts needless wars because he's against gay marriage which is believed to be immoral and heretical. Now I may just be crazy and of course I realize I can't speak for God, but I'm beyond 100% sure that he'd rather we accept people for the way He made them rather than go to some random country and blow people up.


TO BE CONSERVATIVE.....

You must believe that abusive heterosexual parents are worse than loving, caring homosexual parents because you're not used to homosexuals and are afraid of anything new.

You must believe that religion is not about spirituality but about twisting vague phrases to pretend and try to brainwash people into thinking they justify your corrupt intentions.

You believe anyone who does not conform to your will is a horrible, horrible person.

You must believe that most problems can be solved through violence.

You must be so terrified of anything new or anything changing that you actually believe laws should be put in place to enforce that society never progresses.

They are afraid because they are out-dated.
Discussion is pointless. They'll fight for their privilege with all they have, but they don't have intelligent arguments. They have the media, the police and the wealth instead.

It's all so nausiating, because both the right and the lefet have valid points, both are trying to do what's best for they're respective countries, and they both can't seem to understand that about each other. It's not Liberals vs. America (or your respective country) or Conservatives vs. America it's Liberals and Conservatives disagreeing on what's best for America.

TO BE CONSERVATIVE.....

You must believe that abusive heterosexual parents are worse than loving, caring homosexual parents because you're not used to homosexuals and are afraid of anything new.

You must believe that religion is not about spirituality but about twisting vague phrases to pretend and try to brainwash people into thinking they justify your corrupt intentions.

You believe anyone who does not conform to your will is a horrible, horrible person.

You must believe that most problems can be solved through violence.

You must be so terrified of anything new or anything changing that you actually believe laws should be put in place to enforce that society never progresses.


Once again, the ignorance is on all sides....

It's all so nausiating, because both the right and the lefet have valid points, both are trying to do what's best for they're respective countries, and they both can't seem to understand that about each other. It's not Liberals vs. America (or your respective country) or Conservatives vs. America it's Liberals and Conservatives disagreeing on what's best for America.
What are you talking about?
I'm not a liberal. I've been CALLED a liberal, it makes a big difference. Liberals are conservatives in their way. What is progressive about liberalism? We've been experiencing liberalism since almost 200 years now. The republicans are not conservatives they are out-dated freacks. They want it the way it was even before. They want the church back and all. What is the valid point you talk about? Their wealth? I don't care how much money they can suck from the third world, it doesn't make anything more right. And I don't care what is best for the american petit-bourgeois and big capitalists either. I only care about the people, all the people and there is only one people.

What are you talking about?
I'm not a liberal. I've been CALLED a liberal, it makes a big difference. Liberals are conservatives in their way. What is progressive about liberalism? We've been experiencing liberalism since almost 200 years now. The republicans are not conservatives they are out-dated freacks. They want it the way it was even before. They want the church back and all. What is the valid point you talk about? Their wealth? I don't care how much money they can suck from the third world, it doesn't make anything more right. And I don't care what is best for the american petit-bourgeois and big capitalists either. I only care about the people, all the people and there is only one people. Just because something hasn't worked and has caused great problems doesn't mean it's "outdated". If that were true, then these are outdated:
All religions
Secularism (French Revolution anybody?)
Socialism
Capitalism
Animal Rights
Feminism

None of those are outdated. In fact, most are correct IMO to a degree, since moderation seems to be working - working better than extremism did, anyway.

To be a liberal (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberal) you would probably need to hold to an ideology espousing individual liberty and private property.

I hate threads like these. They don't even bother defining "liberal" or conservative and then begin to smash. CONSERVATIVES ARE TEH SUCK! NO LIBERALS! NO YOU! Childish, pointless, ignorant, and not terribly funny. I'd consider it spam actually, since it's just copy and paste bullshit from people who, while not being funny, are funnier than the original poster (who isn't original).

This thread is flamebait in the first place, and meant to get a rise out of everyone who is liberal. Do not create another thread like this, or more official action will be taken.