NationStates Jolt Archive

I have a major issue with this attitude. It is not about any specific event, it is not about any specific government, it is a deeply insulting and patronising attitude universal to modern politics.

Something goes wrong.

People struggle to understand why, what could have been done better, and what could be done better next time. This is a natural learning process. You cannot do politics, science, engineering, or any form of commercial project management without it.

And what do we hear?

"This is not the time for blame . . . this is not the time for those questions . . . look, we're in the situation we are in, now let's focus on dealing with it . . . it's time to move on."

I heard this over every twist and turn in the WMD debate, before and after the Gulf War. Every discovery of attempts to mislead on the part of the government. Every inquiry held in the aftermath. Every increase in the level of violence. Every revelation about the state of public services. Every government IT and PFI project which collapsed. Now over the incompetent disaster management in the US.

Hell, if global warming melted the Siberian permafrost and detonated the methane causing Asia to catch fire, the US would be telling people "Yeah, global warming was real, now move on, get over it". If the UK government nuked Iran, it would say the next day "WTF, you're still upset about it? Jeez, won't you people ever drop the issue? It's happened."

Understand this... I do not give a fuck who is saying it, or whose fault it is. New Labour, Conservative, Republican, Democrat, Civil Servant, Qango Man, some UN bureaucrat, public sector admin, private sector admin. I could not care less who is feeding me the bullshit.

The fact is, I am far better informed, and far more capable in my critical thinking, than their average case. And it just annoys the hell out of me when I'm asked to accept a pat on the head and turn to the sports page.

Grey men in suits all over the world, I am not some stoned airhead activist, I am one of you, so STFU. :upyours:

"It's not the time for blame" is always invoked by the people who have the most blame coming their way. It's their defense of last resort.

But then, governments always wish their people would just bury their heads in the sand and let the government get on with the crucial business of screwing up the country.

:rolleyes:

move on and forget about it so that it happens again, and again, and again,
and again, and again,...

I agree that without assessing failure, there can be no learning. But I also understand how some officials try to defer the "blaming" process to a more organized venue, e.g. a Congressional hearing or investigation. As long as a full investigation is done to determine the chronology and course of events, for example, with the hurricane, I have no problem with politicians focussing on solutions in the near-term, and blame later.

*snip*

**applause**

"It's not the time for blame" is always invoked by the people who have the most blame coming their way. It's their defense of last resort.


That it is, but that doesn't mean anyone who seeks to avoid the blame game (which I find exceedingly tiresome even as I sometimes participate in it) is deserving of the blame. Sometimes, its just people don't want to hear an endless stream of he-did-its.

I agree with the original post however.

Wow Tac?

Only one thing can be said

** Applause **

I agree that without assessing failure, there can be no learning. But I also understand how some officials try to defer the "blaming" process to a more organized venue, e.g. a Congressional hearing or investigation. As long as a full investigation is done to determine the chronology and course of events, for example, with the hurricane, I have no problem with politicians focussing on solutions in the near-term, and blame later.
An investigation is only as good as the people doing the investigation and the amount of help they receive from those being investigated. Any investigation that comes out of this Congress or this administration will be like all the others--a goddamn whitewash.

Hear hear. Well said.

I agree that without assessing failure, there can be no learning. But I also understand how some officials try to defer the "blaming" process to a more organized venue, e.g. a Congressional hearing or investigation. As long as a full investigation is done to determine the chronology and course of events, for example, with the hurricane, I have no problem with politicians focussing on solutions in the near-term, and blame later.
But the thing is, they never do take the time to consider that "blame later" part. As a whole, yes, they'll investigate out the wazoo, but individuals will always be there to crap all over someone else. Tom Delay, for instance, just took a huge verbal dump on the local and state governments in the areas hit by hurricanes, and is trying to claim that it's their fault that aid was so long in coming. Or the FEMA officials who wrongfully informed the city of Charleston, SC that they could expect a plane full of folks relocated from the flood areas, and then actually sent them to Charleston WV. Did they stand up and say "Crap, sorry guys, we're dumb"? Nope. They're solidly ignoring the issue.

On the subject of blame, I'm a little tired of people bringing up those damn school busses as a jab against the New Orleans Mayor. First of all, the Evacuation plan for New Orleans called for a 60% evacuation. They evacuated 80%. As the storm approached, they decided to instead turn the Superdome into a makeshift shelter for the rest. Was it the right decision? WHo knows? But it was a decision. There was no indecisiveness here.

We see those busses on television from the vantage point of a helicopter flying overhead. But did someone, the Mayor, CHief of Police or some other official think of them at the time? Even if they did, with the hurricane bearing down would they be able to scrounge up a couple hundred drivers, bring those busses where they were most needed, get them filled up and out of the city in time?

Maybe. Maybe not. These are all things that have to be considered at a very stressful time when everybody is really making educated guesses about what to do. In my mind, an 80% evacuation whenonly 60% is expected is pretty good work. In my mind, turning the SUperdome into a shelter at the last minute instead of risking further evacuations is a pretty good idea.

There's going to be a lot of second guessing in the next six months. But I, for one, am sick of hearing about those damn school busses as some sort of sign of a lack of effort on the local level. They did their job.

There is a time for blame, and there is a time for action.

IMO, once New Orleans is stabilized, then we bring down the hammer. Right now there are people suffering. They deserve priority. Once that is completed...let the inquesition begin.

Agreed

Although, maybe people who say "This is not the time for blame" are just the kind of people that have trouble walking and chewing gum at the same time.

People struggle to understand why, what could have been done better, and what could be done better next time. This is a natural learning process. You cannot do politics, science, engineering, or any form of commercial project management without it.


Yah, I think we all gave up on the science and engineering quite some time ago. (I don't know about politics, it seems like that has always been a sewer).

Anyway, it's feelings that are important now, not science or engineering, so blame is ultra-declasse.

The problem with waiting until after New Orleans is cleaned up is the short attention span of the average american.

The problem with waiting until after New Orleans is cleaned up is the short attention span of the average american.

There are those of us who will not forget. It will be we who bring the walls tumbling down.

This defence is viable insofar as resorces are concerned. What it means is that "now" is not the time for using resorces on discovering whose fault this is, its more improtant to direct resorces into solving the problem right now. When the problem is solved, then we can worry about who caused it.

"It's not the time for blame" is always invoked by the people who have the most blame coming their way. It's their defense of last resort.

But then, governments always wish their people would just bury their heads in the sand and let the government get on with the crucial business of screwing up the country.

:rolleyes:
"It's not the time for blame" = blame hot potato. When the music stops playing, you lose.

"This is not the time for blame... I haven't had time to cover my ass yet!" :D

I have no problem with compiling the facts as they come in and begin adding them up. We do need to recognize that we don't have all the facts, and that our conclusions at this point must remain flexible.

Regarding the blame specifically: I think it's premature to blame, as in "to find fault with, to censure; condemnation". Working with the facts at hand, it is not premature to "think of as responsible" provided we don't fix our minds completely until we know more. Trying to remain positive is always a good thing.

I have so far only placed responsibility with the mayor's administration - not out of personal dislike for him or other political reasons, and not from a desire to protect the rest of the crew who played far greater roles in the ultimate recovery.

Having suffered through several natural emergencies, I recognize the critical role of the municipalities as 'first responders' and I'm critical of any local leader who didn't do enough for his people - in advance. An emergency plan, food, water, transportation are the things the city should have provided in advance of the hurricane season.

That's as far as I'm willing to place responsibility at this point, but I'm watching and waiting, and definitely hoping that we will repair a system that did not work well. I personally - and I think I'm in the minority here - am less concerned about who did what then I am about how to develop a better mechanism for future disaster recoveries.

**applause**
Seconded!!!!!!!

There is a time for blame, and there is a time for action.

IMO, once New Orleans is stabilized, then we bring down the hammer. Right now there are people suffering. They deserve priority. Once that is completed...let the inquesition begin.

And why couldn't those two times overlap? The blame is with the government, but it is not the government that directly takes action. No, it is police, engineers, doctors, etc. who do that. Furthermore, there are plenty of people who are ready to assign blame in a heartbeat but wouldn't or couldn't take direct action to help. I don't see any reason why I or another average citizen can't blame the government *now* when it doesn't exactly take away time someone could be taking action to manage the crisis.