NationStates Jolt Archive

Look, it's really very simple. On Saturday, August 27, 2005 -- two days before Hurricane Katrina made landfall -- President George W. Bush assumed responsibility for the coordination of "all disaster relief efforts" in the State of Louisiana. This is the specific, undisputed language of Bush's declaration of a State of Emergency, issued that day by the White House, and still available for viewing on the White House website. The responsibility for coordinating all disaster relief efforts in New Orleans clearly rested with the White House. Despite all the post-disaster spin by the Bush Faction and its sycophants, despite all the earnest media analyses, the lines of authority are clear and indisputable.

Here is the voice of George W. Bush himself, in the proclamation issued in his name, over his signature on Saturday, August 27, 2005:

"The President today declared an emergency exists in the State of Louisiana and ordered Federal aid to supplement state and local response efforts in the parishes located in the path of Hurricane Katrina beginning on August 26, 2005, and continuing. The President's action authorizes the Department of Homeland Security, Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA), to coordinate all disaster relief efforts which have the purpose of alleviating the hardship and suffering caused by the emergency on the local population, and to provide appropriate assistance for required emergency measures"

Bush goes on to say: "Specifically, FEMA is authorized to identify, mobilize, and provide at its discretion, equipment and resources necessary to alleviate the impacts of the emergency."

I can't believe you thought you could end it this easily...

But what's this? Logic? Evidence? Where do you think you are?!

Oh come on, Bush is responsible just because he said he is....that's naive, if everything Bush said were true, there would have been WMD in Iraq... :confused:

This is what you get for taking vegetation seriously. ;)

Oh come on, Bush is responsible just because he said he is....that's naive, if everything Bush said were true, there would have been WMD in Iraq... :confused:

This is what you get for taking vegetation seriously. ;)
Noice. Notice not even the right wing has taken a swing at this, I think soemone jsut one an arguement and acheived their goals with logic... on NS of all places...

The way I understand this post is, President Bush ordered the government to help the potential victims two days before Hurricane Katrina hit New Orleans, and the federal agencys did not do their job, they disobeyd President Bush, so it is President Bush's fault that they did not do thier job as ordered by the President.

The only argument that can be made here is two days before the Hurricane was not enough time to get everything in place to go in there right after the storm hit
and left.

Questions?

when did the mayor ordered the city evacuated,
before the President issued this order or after?

Did the mayor provide a way for the people that could not leave to leave?

If before, did he ask the President directly or other government agency under the President's responsibility?

Was the superdome shelter eguipped or not before the storm hit, and whose responsibility was it that it be equipped before the time of need?

When did the federal government go in after the hurricane left to help the victims of this hurricane?

Where they able to go in immediately after, or were there
natural obsticles to block them from responding right away?

When they did respond in what ways did they respond?

In what ways they did not respond that they should have?

Wha about many of the people who could get out on thier own but did not wish to leave despite an evacuatin order?

I can understand the people that could not leave on thier own, but there were many who had cars, who did not leave and decided to stay.

Can we say that because there is a city government, a state government and a federal government, they were all doing thier own thing and didnt coordinate in time?

Can we say that all these governments have some fault?

Now after the storm what do we think of the people who are refusing to leave the city, despite all the potential dangers that still exsist?

Put your own account of events in your own order post it and maybe we can sort this mess out.

Have fun with this one, I tired of blaming everyone.

And yes those that blame President Bush for everything.

So have fun with this one.

where the hell are we going to mave mardi gras!?!?!?

What is the relevance of this?
New Orleans had a sub-standard, third-world-like levee system, because of objective carelessness of the responsible governments. Unfortunately, the US have a lot of third-world-like public facilities, leading to disasters like this, power shortages, and so on...
Luckily, there is the UN and big-hearted countries like Cuba, to help soften the consequences of their under-development.

From what I read Bush authorized the federal government to help. The tried to help early on but the mayor of NO and the govenor of LA resisted help. How is that Bush's fault? Oh yeah I get it now, everything is Bush's fault. He is superhuman and always wrong. Yeah thats just the way it is.

where the hell are we going to mave mardi gras!?!?!?

Galveston.

Look, it's really very simple. On Saturday, August 27, 2005 -- two days before Hurricane Katrina made landfall -- President George W. Bush assumed responsibility for the coordination of "all disaster relief efforts" in the State of Louisiana. This is the specific, undisputed language of Bush's declaration of a State of Emergency, issued that day by the White House, and still available for viewing on the White House website. The responsibility for coordinating all disaster relief efforts in New Orleans clearly rested with the White House. Despite all the post-disaster spin by the Bush Faction and its sycophants, despite all the earnest media analyses, the lines of authority are clear and indisputable.

Here is the voice of George W. Bush himself, in the proclamation issued in his name, over his signature on Saturday, August 27, 2005:

"The President today declared an emergency exists in the State of Louisiana and ordered Federal aid to supplement state and local response efforts in the parishes located in the path of Hurricane Katrina beginning on August 26, 2005, and continuing. The President's action authorizes the Department of Homeland Security, Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA), to coordinate all disaster relief efforts which have the purpose of alleviating the hardship and suffering caused by the emergency on the local population, and to provide appropriate assistance for required emergency measures"

Bush goes on to say: "Specifically, FEMA is authorized to identify, mobilize, and provide at its discretion, equipment and resources necessary to alleviate the impacts of the emergency."
A significant percentage ( about 55% the last I heard ) of the American people don't agree with you on this.

A significant percentage ( about 55% the last I heard ) of the American people don't agree with you on this.

I know. I find this quite scary, to be honest. I mean, what does he need to do for those people to think he has handled the situation "badly"? Sacrificed the first born children of everyone in New Orleans? I'm all for backing your government in a time of crisis...as long as that crisis was not exacerbated by them. Quite frankly, if this had happened where i live, there'd have been riots in London. We riot over TAX, over FOXHUNTING for godsakes, the idea that our government showed criminal neglicence over the life and death of thousands of people...

yet we are constantly told how we live in the quaint ole UK, and you live in the land of the free. Interesting, to say the least.

From what I read Bush authorized the federal government to help. The tried to help early on but the mayor of NO and the govenor of LA resisted help. How is that Bush's fault? Oh yeah I get it now, everything is Bush's fault. He is superhuman and always wrong. Yeah thats just the way it is.
Shit like this just makes my head hurt, because no matter how many times people point out that it's untrue, it still keeps popping up like a goddamn zombie. The state and local governments asked for help before the storm hit--how is that resisting? In what universe is that considered resisting?

The only resistance to the federal government came 3-4 days after the storm hit when the feds wanted to come in and remove all authority from the state government--and then it's the state's duty to its citizens to resist.

If you can find a scintilla of evidence to back up that bolded claim, then bring it, because I'd love to see it.

A significant percentage ( about 55% the last I heard ) of the American people don't agree with you on this.
What does that matter? A significant percentage of people think ID is as legitimate a theory as evolution. Doesn't make it any more true. All it proves is that a significant percentage of people have their heads up their asses.

From what I read Bush authorized the federal government to help. The tried to help early on but the mayor of NO and the govenor of LA resisted help. How is that Bush's fault? Oh yeah I get it now, everything is Bush's fault. He is superhuman and always wrong. Yeah thats just the way it is.
This is true, the governor waited 24 hours to deploy the National Guard, and now the mayor and governor are pointing fingers at each other.

These democrats are a joke, and all they can do is deflect blame.
They delayed the help that the federal government offered.

This is true, the governor waited 24 hours to deploy the National Guard, and now the mayor and governor are pointing fingers at each other.

These democrats are a joke, and all they can do is deflect blame.
They delayed the help that the federal government offered.

From todays White House press conference:-

Q But, Scott, more concretely, an officer of the Northern Command is quoted as saying that as early as the time Hurricane Katrina went through Florida and worked its way up to the Gulf, there was a massive military response ready to go, but that the President did not order it. It could have been ordered on Sunday, on Monday, on Tuesday -- the call didn't come. Why not?

MR. McCLELLAN: Bill, let's point out a couple of things. There were a lot of assets that were deployed and pre-positioned prior to the hurricane hitting. And you have to look back --

Q These assets were deployed, but the order to use them never came. The Bataan was sitting off behind the hurricane.

MR. McCLELLAN: I know these are all facts that you want to look at and want to determine what went wrong and what went right. I'm not prepared to agree with your assessment just there. There is a much larger picture here that we have to take a look at, and --

Q It's not mine, it's an officer in the Northern Command.

MR. McCLELLAN: -- in terms of the President, the President issued disaster declarations ahead of time so that we could make sure we're fully mobilizing resources and pre-positioning them. But this was a hurricane of unprecedented magnitude.

Q Right, but the military can't go into action without his order.

Shit like this just makes my head hurt, because no matter how many times people point out that it's untrue, it still keeps popping up like a goddamn zombie. maybe Watching FOX makes them Bushite Zombies... :D

This is true, the governor waited 24 hours to deploy the National Guard, and now the mayor and governor are pointing fingers at each other.

These democrats are a joke, and all they can do is deflect blame.
They delayed the help that the federal government offered.
Even if this were true (and I understand that it is not true), what kind of a wuss President cannot stand up to a few state officials if that is what it takes to save a city?

Being President is not an ordinary job, it is an extraordinary job that requires extraordinary leadership skills, it is a job for the kind of person who exceeds expectations even when the going is tough. Clearly Bush is not up to the task. Being President requires an ability to get the job done in extraordinary, as well as ordinary times, Bush doesnt have that ability.

I know. I find this quite scary, to be honest. I mean, what does he need to do for those people to think he has handled the situation "badly"? Sacrificed the first born children of everyone in New Orleans? I'm all for backing your government in a time of crisis...as long as that crisis was not exacerbated by them. Quite frankly, if this had happened where i live, there'd have been riots in London. We riot over TAX, over FOXHUNTING for godsakes, the idea that our government showed criminal neglicence over the life and death of thousands of people...

yet we are constantly told how we live in the quaint ole UK, and you live in the land of the free. Interesting, to say the least.
You riot over soccer, for god's sake.

Even if this were true (and I understand that it is not true), what kind of a wuss President cannot stand up to a few state officials if that is what it takes to save a city?
One who follows established emergency response laws and traditions...

One who follows established emergency response laws and traditions...
In other words one that is not fit to the job. We are not talking about saving a life, or a building, or avoiding an instance of disease, or saving a couple of dollars. We are talking about a whole city, thousands dead, and who knows how many more to come from disease, and billions and billions of dollars, not to mention considerable harm to the economy.

If it is true that the President of the US does not have the authority to assert control in the event of impending disaster in order to prevent death and destruction on a massive scale, then this is an instance where the lives of the people who have entrusted the President to lead them, should have taken precedence over counter-productive laws and inadequate traditions. If he ended up in trouble after the event, well such an act of self sacrifice should be the least a President would do to ensure that he didnt fail in his duty to lead and protect US citizens in extraordinary circumstances.

No one said being President was easy...

where the hell are we going to mave mardi gras!?!?!?

How about Sao Paulo? ;)

One who follows established emergency response laws and traditions...
If he'd followed those procedures, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

I think it's amusing and more than a little sad that the people who say we shouldn't be playing "the blame game" are busily pointing fingers at Blanco and Nagin at the same time. And it should be noted that perhaps the only person in Mississippi not complaining about FEMA is Haley Barbour, the governor--everyone who actually needs them is pissed.

Galveston.

Now that my good Sir, is pithy.