NationStates Jolt Archive

Obviously the vast majority of Americans are quite devout Christians, so I was wondering, what is their typical reaction to someone who, when the question arises, declares that they are an atheist?

Does their initial warmth evaporate? Any forced smiles? Is there any exchange of glances, a "he's not one of ours" subtext? Do you subsequently feel your judgement considered suspect?

Perhaps this is less the case with adults, but is this perhaps the case in the social minefield of young people's interactions?

Just wondering. :)

Obviously the vast majority of Americans are quite devout Christians, so I was wondering, what is their typical reaction to someone who, when the question arises, declares that they are an atheist?

Does their initial warmth evaporate? Any forced smiles? Is there any exchange of glances, a "he's not one of ours" subtext? Do you subsequently feel your judgement considered suspect?

Perhaps this is less the case with adults, but is this perhaps the case in the social minefield of young people's interactions?

Just wondering. :)
Well while my friends are an interesting mix of Catholics Buddhists , agnostics and atheists here in other areas of my social life I get the instant assumption that being non religious automatically makes me non moral

That somehow my value judgments on right or wrong are automatically suspect.

After that the next most common discussion is the stupid Pascal’s wager
For some reason people cant see past that idiotic piece of reasoning , they just assume that I can force a belief on myself just incase.

I wonder why it makes them feel better about themselves trying to get me to do that. (not saying all people I know some people are doing it out of “compassion” but others still try to use that “just in case” sort of mentality … as if they just want me to profess it just so they feel more comfortable around me or something)


Anyways yeah lots of looks lot of pathetically horrible debates on the topic (most people in my experience don’t know their own faith enough to even come close to being able to debate it rationally … the exception is a few around here but I am talking in RL)

Obviously the vast majority of Americans are quite devout Christians, so I was wondering, what is their typical reaction to someone who, when the question arises, declares that they are an atheist?

Does their initial warmth evaporate? Any forced smiles? Is there any exchange of glances, a "he's not one of ours" subtext? Do you subsequently feel your judgement considered suspect?

Perhaps this is less the case with adults, but is this perhaps the case in the social minefield of young people's interactions?

Just wondering. :)

That is absolutely false.

The "vast majority" of Americans are not devout Christians. Devout Christians lead their lives based on Christian dogma, and that's certainly not the case. They might IDENTIFY themselves as Christian, but that doesn't mean that they are devout.

To answer your question, though. I don't generally volunteer that information unless they ask what my beliefs are. And if they do I tell them what I believe in. Some respect me enough to engage me in discussion, some try to "save" me and some give me that bland smile that says "you're going to hell and I wish I could save you" but say nothing.

The "vast majority" of Americans are not devout Christians. Devout Christians lead their lives based on Christian dogma, and that's certainly not the case. They might IDENTIFY themselves as Christian, but that doesn't mean that they are devout.
Being a European atheist, anyone who identifies themselves as a Christian and goes to church at least on occasion, is 'devout'. :p

That is absolutele false.

The "vast majority" of Americans are not devout Christians. Devout Christians lead their lives based on Christian dogma, and that's certainly not the case. They might IDENTIFY themselves as Christian, but that doesn't mean that they are devout.
iQuote.

However, when dealing with people like that, they don't appear too discouraged when I explain that I'm an egotheist. They give me usually something about the Lord caring for his flock, etc. etc. etc., and try to convert me. Which I don't really like. ^_~

Being a European atheist, anyone who identifies themselves as a Christian and goes to church at least on occasion, is 'devout'. :p

Well, I think the criteria is a little different hereabouts. hehehe

I think most Americans identify themselves as Christians but very few are devout by any standards.

Being a European atheist, anyone who identifies themselves as a Christian and goes to church at least on occasion, is 'devout'. :p So true, so true…

I'm sure that there aren't as many Christians in America as you say there are. Vast majority devout Christians? I doubt that, really…
As a Christian (in England not the USA), I don't look on atheists as "da other side" at all… heh, I'm in the minority. About half my friends are atheists, and it ain't me who tries the converting!

Well, I think the criteria is a little different hereabouts. hehehe

I think most Americans identify themselves as Christians but very few are devout by any standards.

I'm totally with you on this. Jesus would be ashamed of 98% of those who claim to follow him.

That is absolutely false.

The "vast majority" of Americans are not devout Christians. Devout Christians lead their lives based on Christian dogma, and that's certainly not the case. They might IDENTIFY themselves as Christian, but that doesn't mean that they are devout.

To answer your question, though. I don't generally volunteer that information unless they ask what my beliefs are. And if they do I tell them what I believe in. Some respect me enough to engage me in discussion, some try to "save" me and some give me that bland smile that says "you're going to hell and I wish I could save you" but say nothing.

Most of America does indeed identify themselves as Christian--as does most of the World, then close Second is Islam.

On the mater of Dogma, no a Devout Christian absolutely does not follow Dogma--but that statement will quickly degenrate into a sectarian arguement that I dont want to enter and I am certain you dont care about.
By your expanation of your experiences at least you deal with polite people.

Most of America does indeed identify themselves as Christian--as does most of the World, then close Second is Islam.

On the mater of Dogma, no a Devout Christian absolutely does not follow Dogma--but that statement will quickly degenrate into a sectarian arguement that I dont want to enter and I am certain you dont care about.
By your expanation of your experiences at least you deal with polite people.

I would classify those that try to save me as being impolite (at best) and those that silently pity my damnation as being at the very least disrespectful. But at least they know better than to try to convert me.

So true, so true…

I'm sure that there aren't as many Christians in America as you say there are. Vast majority devout Christians? I doubt that, really…
As a Christian (in England not the USA), I don't look on atheists as "da other side" at all… heh, I'm in the minority. About half my friends are atheists, and it ain't me who tries the converting!
Statiscally 30% of Americans attend church at least ONCE week if not more.
The number of people who simply Identify themselves as devout is higher, and even higher still is the number who belive but do not identify themselves as practicing.
The United States is very religous.

So true, so true…

I'm sure that there aren't as many Christians in America as you say there are. Vast majority devout Christians? I doubt that, really…
As a Christian (in England not the USA), I don't look on atheists as "da other side" at all… heh, I'm in the minority. About half my friends are atheists, and it ain't me who tries the converting!
Depends on where you live … up here in Minnesota we are at about 30 percent RC alone (at least in my area) and probably a higher percentage in the town I am actually in (We are part of a much larger diocese … but I live outside a smaller farming town … I am guessing in the order of 60 + percent when school is not in session )

I would classify those that try to save me as being impolite (at best) and those that silently pity my damnation as being at the very least disrespectful. But at least they know better than to try to convert me.
Try to think of it as them doing you a favor you didnt really ask for--
You must understand as a Christian they are obligated by their faith to attempt to "save" you.
The ones who dont are not living true to the Faith. I would be more offended by them.

Statiscally 30% of Americans attend church at least ONCE week if not more.
The number of people who simply Identify themselves as devout is higher, and even higher still is the number who belive but do not identify themselves as practicing.
The United States is very religous. Remember, the Pharisees attended synagogue services scrupulously and called themselves devout.

But it's impossible to even try to "look down" (can't think of another term for it) on atheists… most of the people around me are atheists! I've never witnessed anyone trying to convert somebody or "save" them, though. Wrong country, probably (they keep trying to save ME. The atheists, that is :p ).

Try to think of it as them doing you a favor you didnt really ask for--
You must understand as a Christian they are obligated by their faith to attempt to "save" you.
The ones who dont are not living true to the Faith. I would be more offended by them. You do realise that constantly proselytising at someone isn't the best way to win them over, don't you? Paul 'imself said that wives should lead their husbands by example if they were Christian and their husbands are not.

Try to think of it as them doing you a favor you didnt really ask for--
You must understand as a Christian they are obligated by their faith to attempt to "save" you.
The ones who dont are not living true to the Faith. I would be more offended by them.
Even so it is still impolite

It is impolite to do a “favor” without asking as well
While it may turn out to be something I wished, I would still rather have been asked

Remember, the Pharisees attended synagogue services scrupulously and called themselves devout.

But it's impossible to even try to "look down" (can't think of another term for it) on atheists… most of the people around me are atheists! I've never witnessed anyone trying to convert somebody or "save" them, though. Wrong country, probably (they keep trying to save ME. The atheists, that is :p ).
I am merely pointing out that the only data that can be measured shows America to be far more devout then other first world nations and the statistics based again on information that can be collected support Tactical's statement--

If you want to argue who is faking or not, well I dont see how you can collect the data.

Try to think of it as them doing you a favor you didnt really ask for--
You must understand as a Christian they are obligated by their faith to attempt to "save" you.
The ones who dont are not living true to the Faith. I would be more offended by them.

What favor? To me it is simply them trying to press their beliefs on me, unsolicited. I don't do that to them and I despise when people try to do it to me. That is a "favor" on the same level as a telemarketing call.

I am a student of the universe. By that I mean that I read. I observe the world around me. I decide what to believe by asking myself what makes the most sense. What feels right to me. Yet I don't go out trying to convince others that my way is best for them too. People have to come to their own conclusions about what to believe.

In my area, we started torturing and killing anyone who openly preaches an organized religion. That stopped, for the most part, any problems from arising from heated debates or unwanted Jahovah's Witnesses knocking on your door. It was easy to determine who was "devout" and who wasn't -- the "devout" were tortured and died for their religion where the rest got on with their lives...

I am merely pointing out that the only data that can be measured shows America to be far more devout then other first world nations and the statistics based again on information that can be collected support Tactical's statement--

If you want to argue who is faking or not, well I dont see how you can collect the data. Ndjahhhh… I was saying that statistics could be misleading. Are there some very devout states (Bible Belt and so forth) and some not so devout? That would certainly sway the information. I'm not disputing that America is more devout than other first world nations (wouldn't be hard!).

Have you ever got slighted by Christians when you tell them you're atheist… or are you atheist? Ciurious about people's experiences.

Ndjahhhh… I was saying that statistics could be misleading. Are there some very devout states (Bible Belt and so forth) and some not so devout? That would certainly sway the information. I'm not disputing that America is more devout than other first world nations (wouldn't be hard!).

Have you ever got slighted by Christians when you tell them you're atheist… or are you atheist? Ciurious about people's experiences.

I have been many times. I've had quite a few people try to "save" me, though I have no need for their supposed salvation.

Ndjahhhh… I was saying that statistics could be misleading. Are there some very devout states (Bible Belt and so forth) and some not so devout? That would certainly sway the information. I'm not disputing that America is more devout than other first world nations (wouldn't be hard!).

Have you ever got slighted by Christians when you tell them you're atheist… or are you atheist? Ciurious about people's experiences.

Yes I have … I have gotten everything from landover baptist sort of rants to just a sigh or a look of confusion (I have friends that did not know what atheist meant … and they were 23 … sometimes RC parents seem to shelter their kids like no tomarrow)


That and I started getting tripe like this in my email … she sent this to an ATHEIST WTF did she think the answer to the first paragraph or two would be


No way in hell I would die for a mythical fictional father character

IF SOMEONE HAD A GUN HELD IN FRONT OF YOUR FACE AND ASKED YOU IF YOU
>BELIEVED IN GOD, WHAT WOULD YOU DO?
>>SAY NO AND FEEL ASHAMED THE REST OF YOUR LIFE? OR SAY YES, I DO,
>AND DIE STANDING UP FOR GOD?
>>
>>
>>If you would say no, DELETE THIS E-MAIL , NOW. IF YOU WOULD SAY
>YES,
>>
>>AND STAND UP FOR JESUS CHRIST, PLEASE READ THIS AND PASS ON.
>>
>>Note: This is a true article that was printed in a southern
>newspaper less then a year ago
>>
>>TAKE A DEEP BREATH BEFORE READING THIS
>>
>>There was an atheist couple who had a child. The couple never told
>their daughter anything about the Lord. One night when the little
>girl was 5 years old, the parents fought with each other and the dad
>shot the Mom, right in front of the child. Then, the dad shot
>himself. The little girl watched it all. She then was sent to a
>foster home. The foster mother was a Christian and took the child to
>church. On the first day of Sunday School, the foster mother told
>the teacher that the girl had never heard of Jesus, and to have
>patience with her. The teacher held up a picture of Jesus and said,
>"Does anyone know who this is?" The little girl said, "I do, that's
>the man who was holding me the night my parents died."
>>
>>If you believe this little girl is telling the truth that even
>though she had never heard of Jesus, he still held her the night her
>parents died, then you will forward this to as many people as you
>can.
>>
>>Or you can delete it as if it never touched your heart.
>>
>>Funny, isn't it?
>>
>>Funny how simple it is for people to trash God and then wonder why
>the world's going to hell.
>>
>>Funny how we believe what the newspapers! say, but question what
>the Bible says.
>>
>>Funny how everyone wants to go to heaven provided they do not have
>to believe, think, say, or do anything the Bible says. (Or is it
>scary?)
>>
>>Funny how someone can say "I believe in God" but still follow
>Satan (who, by the way, also "believes" in God).
>>
>>Funny how you can send a thousand 'jokes' through e-mail and they
>spread like wildfire, but when you start sending messages regarding
>the Lord, people think twice about sharing.
>>
>>Funny how the lewd, crude, vulgar and obscene pass freely through
>cyberspace, but the public discussion of Jesus is suppressed in the
>school and workplace.
>>
>>Funny how when you go to forward this message, you will not send
>it to many on your address list because you're not sure what they
>believe, or what they will think of you for sending it to them.
>>
>>Funny how we can go to church for Christ on Sunday, but be an
>invisible Christian the rest of the week. (Are you laughing?)
>>
>>Funny how I can be more worried about what other people think of
>me than what God thinks of me. (Are you thinking?)
>>
>>Pass this on only if you mean it

Yes I have … I have gotten everything from landover baptist sort of rants to just a sigh or a look of confusion (I have friends that did not know what atheist meant … and they were 23 … sometimes RC parents seem to shelter their kids like no tomarrow)


That and I started getting tripe like this in my email … she sent this to an ATHEIST WTF did she think the answer to the first paragraph or two would be


No way in hell I would die for a mythical fictional father character

It's a nice little story. But it's just a story.

Even so it is still impolite

It is impolite to do a “favor” without asking as well
While it may turn out to be something I wished, I would still rather have been asked
Fair enough, I was just trying to put a positive spin on it.
I get angry when people are rude to me, and I dont like getting angry.
So I was suggesting merely a more pleasant perspective.

Yes I have … I have gotten everything from landover baptist sort of rants to just a sigh or a look of confusion (I have friends that did not know what atheist meant … and they were 23 … sometimes RC parents seem to shelter their kids like no tomarrow)


That and I started getting tripe like this in my email … she sent this to an ATHEIST WTF did she think the answer to the first paragraph or two would be


No way in hell I would die for a mythical fictional father character Okay… that IS sheltered. Definitely don't get that in Europe (or some of the more "enlightened" states, I'd say).
O'course, that wouldn't be my idea of devout but… what's the thing about the Scotsman?

Obviously the vast majority of Americans are quite devout Christians, so I was wondering, what is their typical reaction to someone who, when the question arises, declares that they are an atheist?

Does their initial warmth evaporate? Any forced smiles? Is there any exchange of glances, a "he's not one of ours" subtext? Do you subsequently feel your judgement considered suspect?

Perhaps this is less the case with adults, but is this perhaps the case in the social minefield of young people's interactions?

Just wondering. :)

Initial warmth does evaporate, and there are many forced, very frightened "smiles". And, you wouldn't believe how many exchanged looks they give if they're in a group.

Actually, it's more of a case with adults than with younger people. The younger people will likely not give a shit (unless they've been indoctrinated like Hitler Youth), but the adults will get you blacklisted.

Initial warmth does evaporate, and there are many forced, very frightened "smiles". And, you wouldn't believe how many exchanged looks they give if they're in a group.

Actually, it's more of a case with adults than with younger people. The younger people will likely not give a shit (unless they've been indoctrinated like Hitler Youth), but the adults will get you blacklisted.
Yeah ... it seems less important to kids
maybe us adults should really be paying more attention to how their kids act in certian respects

Yeah ... it seems less important to kids
maybe us adults should really be paying more attention to how their kids act in certian respects

True, but I'm hardly an adult (only 17). I don't think it'd be too easy to sway a ~38-year-old person who's been indoctrinated since before they could even talk, much less listen.

Initial warmth does evaporate, and there are many forced, very frightened "smiles". And, you wouldn't believe how many exchanged looks they give if they're in a group.

Actually, it's more of a case with adults than with younger people. The younger people will likely not give a shit (unless they've been indoctrinated like Hitler Youth), but the adults will get you blacklisted.

yeah your exactly right. i just wrote an english paper about being atheist, and i am hoping we dont have to read these out loud. im not looking foward to the responses...

True, but I'm hardly an adult (only 17). I don't think it'd be too easy to sway a ~38-year-old person who's been indoctrinated since before they could even talk, much less listen.
Its not … but if they feel like bringing up the topic I have no problems debating them on it

Its just not polite conversation normally to discuss religion (meaning small talk sort of convo not real debate (at least by my feelings))

yeah your exactly right. i just wrote an english paper about being atheist, and i am hoping we dont have to read these out loud. im not looking foward to the responses...

Hahaha, I'd read it very loud. I love getting a rise out of morons.

Enough of these "question for (specific group)" threads!

I expect we were all indoctrinated in one form of another. The only difference is to what extent, and in what.

Incidentally, you're making the US population look like Mujahedin.

Hahaha, I'd read it very loud. I love getting a rise out of morons.

lol, i still dont want to finish my paper and look up and see distorted faces looking at me. i hate getting the evil eye...

lol, i still dont want to finish my paper and look up and see distorted faces looking at me. i hate getting the evil eye...

Heh, I got used to that when I was in public school. It didn't bother me a bit :D.

Ndjahhhh… I was saying that statistics could be misleading. Are there some very devout states (Bible Belt and so forth) and some not so devout? That would certainly sway the information. I'm not disputing that America is more devout than other first world nations (wouldn't be hard!).

Even in the nice, safe, sensible, heretical lost lands of the United Kingdom (http://www.statistics.gov.uk/cci/nugget.asp?id=293) 71.6% of people identify themselves as Christian, and only 15.5% are "no religion" (including 390k Jedis).


Edit: My 100th post :)
I am spammer.

lol, i still dont want to finish my paper and look up and see distorted faces looking at me. i hate getting the evil eye...Man up, goddamnit! I work out at the gym with a white muscleshirt that says "GOD IS JUST PRETEND" in big black letters.

We seem to really be heathens here in New Zealand. 50% identified as some denomination of Christian, 40% didn't specifiy a religion. Not that that necessarily means atheism. Fundamentalist Christians are a very endangered species around here too, which is good.

Even in the nice, safe, sensible, heretical lost lands of the United Kingdom (http://www.statistics.gov.uk/cci/nugget.asp?id=293) 71.6% of people identify themselves as Christian, and only 15.5% are "no religion" (including 390k Jedis). Don't get me started on religion and state church in the UK, please.

I have to say, though, all these people saying that they get argued at by Christians, and looked at askance, and not-so-subtle hints that their ideology is wrong - well for me it's the other way round. I'm not being paranoid, honest!

Obviously the vast majority of Americans are quite devout Christians, so I was wondering, what is their typical reaction to someone who, when the question arises, declares that they are an atheist?

Does their initial warmth evaporate? Any forced smiles? Is there any exchange of glances, a "he's not one of ours" subtext? Do you subsequently feel your judgement considered suspect?

Perhaps this is less the case with adults, but is this perhaps the case in the social minefield of young people's interactions?

Just wondering. :)
I don't associate with people who ask me what I believe in, and I don't discuss what I believe either. I'm more than happy to debate religion with people, within the confines of that religion, and I will debate the practices over religions compared to each other (not whether or not those practices or right, but how they compare to the practices of other religions), but I will not discuss with anyone whether or not the beliefs of any religion is right or wrong.

In fact, in my case, it's quite the opposite of what you've described. I'm generally pretty nice to people. However, when the question about religion arises, I become somewhat standoffish.

Even in the nice, safe, sensible, heretical lost lands of the United Kingdom (http://www.statistics.gov.uk/cci/nugget.asp?id=293) 71.6% of people identify themselves as Christian, and only 15.5% are "no religion" (including 390k Jedis).

I have to wonder how many of these people are Christian, and how many people went "Uhh.. I dunno. Guess I must be Christian."

Most of America does indeed identify themselves as Christian--as does most of the World, then close Second is Islam.

On the mater of Dogma, no a Devout Christian absolutely does not follow Dogma--but that statement will quickly degenrate into a sectarian arguement that I dont want to enter and I am certain you dont care about.
By your expanation of your experiences at least you deal with polite people.

I love Dogma. Chris Rock, dude. Kickass.

I'm an agnostic, and I have lived in Southern Illinois and Northern Georgia, right in the middle of the Bible Belt. I would say that, around here, 80% may be aiming too low.

As for how they react, it is usually just confusion when they find out I don't believe in God. I don't think they would hold it against me, as they seem to think that it is just a phase, that I am just a lost soul, to use Christian terms, and that sooner or later I will find Jesus.

I love Dogma. Chris Rock, dude. Kickass.
I have to say, that movie pwned.

Obviously the vast majority of Americans are quite devout Christians, so I was wondering, what is their typical reaction to someone who, when the question arises, declares that they are an atheist?

Does their initial warmth evaporate? Any forced smiles? Is there any exchange of glances, a "he's not one of ours" subtext? Do you subsequently feel your judgement considered suspect?

Perhaps this is less the case with adults, but is this perhaps the case in the social minefield of young people's interactions?

Just wondering. :)

I don't discuss religion with 'devout' people, be they Christian, Muslim, or any of the other myriad choices. I CERTAINLY don't bring the subject up, as I have found it mostly to be the case that most anyone who broaches the subject of religion does so with the ulterior motive (even if it is an unconcious one) of conversion. This is not true in all cases (good friends occasionally discuss the subject rationally, etc.) but whenever I have been asked about my beliefs by someone who did not already know them, or at least have an inkling, it has not been out of curiosity about what I believe, but out of a desire to tell me what they do.

When asked, I tend to change the subject. When pressed, I walk away. If the subject comes up again, I will respond "Why do you ask? Are you going to try to convert me?" If the person is insistant, I have been known to say "You are being rude, I do not wish to discuss this with you. Drop it now!" If this has the effect of making them change the subject, I have won. If it offends them and they leave, I have still won, as this makes it obvious what the ulterior motive was in the first place.

Sometimes someone else starts off by telling me about their beliefs. If I don't find them too horrific, I listen politely, then change the subject. If I do find them offensive, I either say "Let's talk about something else now" or I walk away. On occasion I have said "I find those beliefs offensive, and if you want to know why I will tell you. If you don't, please change the subject." This usually (I would say 95% of the time) leads to a change of subject, or the other person walking away. If this discussion leads to "so what do you believe" I refer back to the previous paragraph.

If I find a person who, through other conversation, seems reasonable, and if the discussion naturally wanders there, I will discuss my beliefs, but this does not often happen. When it does, I have found the usual response has been "Oh, that is interesting. Moving on to world news..."

So, since changing the subject in a thread does not pertain, and you wouldn't see me walk away... I will just say "Why do you ask? Are you going to try to convert me?

I have to say, that movie pwned.

Dogma fucking rocked!

Dogma fucking rocked!

never saw it, never heard of it...i guess i missed out?

I don't mind...the girl of my dreams is a devout Atheist. =)

I try and act Atheist sometimes too, whenever i'm around her...but she know's i don't believe my own words.

Umm...ignoring my love-life, i don't care if they're atheist or not.

I always believe that there is a little belief of G-d somewhere in them. =D

Dogma fucking rocked! I've only seen about a third of it… I really liked what I saw, though. Love Dogma… both kinds. :)

So, since changing the subject in a thread does not pertain, and you wouldn't see me walk away... I will just say "Why do you ask? Are you going to try to convert me?
Just a thought that occurred to me, and I wanted to have some anecdotal evidence one way or another. It sure beats subscribing to some stereotype like "Most Americans are bible-bashers" if you can actually get sufficient testimony to acquire a more balanced view.

As for my beliefs, they are a matter of public record here, but omitted as they are not relevant to the thread.

I have to wonder how many of these people are Christian, and how many people went "Uhh.. I dunno. Guess I must be Christian."
Me too.

Someone once tried to persuade me I must be Christian because I had been christened. That I was incapable of thought at the time seemed irrelevant to them. They weren't even religious themselves, which was odd.

Yea, usually when people find out I am atheist they start thinking that I run around doing drugs and summoning demons from the underworld. The thing is, I lead an extremely moral life and it really confuses people who know me when they find out later I don’t believe in their god.

I hang out with a devout christian zealot though, the kind who would not even talk with a blasphemering atheist, so everyone assumes I am christian and I get spared the "save your soul" speeches.

It is pathetic that members of a faith which claims to provide the ultimate certainty so obviously betray their fear that it might be false. When seen in perspective, religion is really no less escapist than drug use.

I have to wonder how many of these people are Christian, and how many people went "Uhh.. I dunno. Guess I must be Christian."
It's a statistic from the census. Which means that anyone under 18 (unless they happen to be the head of household) doesn't get a say. If the parents are Christian, no matter what their kids believe, they'll put down that their kids are Christian as well.
Practising Christians, the figure's a hell of a lot less. Ballpark figure, going from the number of people I see going to church each weekend, I'd say around 15-20% of the population. I know that in the village I live in the churches can accommodate around 300 people in total for each service, and there's 3 services at each church (there's 3 churches) every Sunday. That's at most 2700 people from my village and surrounding villages going to church each Sunday, from a total population of about 10000.
I myself am agnostic, and I share a room with a practising RC at uni. We have some, uh, heated discussions occasionally, but he accepts that I can believe what I want, whether he agrees with it or not.

Whenever someone tells em they are christian, I feel sorry for them and all respect is lost for them.

I don't understand how someone could believe in garbage like that, let alone want to follow an imaginary mass murderers demands.

I think religious people are only so because they are child molesters or something and are looking for a simple way to ease their conscience. I'm a security guard at Kent institution in BC, and the prisoners LOVE their religion, being lazy, stupid and guilty makes for the best christians. %99 of inmates that come up for parole have claimed to have "found god". Unfortunately, there's more churches than 7/11's in this area so the criminals are back on the streets killing and raping in no time.


Jeremiah 4:22

22 "My people are fools;
they do not know me.
They are senseless children;
they have no understanding.
They are skilled in doing evil;
they know not how to do good."

This sums up christians fairly well I must say.

Yea, usually when people find out I am atheist they start thinking that I run around doing drugs and summoning demons from the underworld. The thing is, I lead an extremely moral life and it really confuses people who know me when they find out later I don’t believe in their god.

I hang out with a devout christian zealot though, the kind who would not even talk with a blasphemering atheist, so everyone assumes I am christian and I get spared the "save your soul" speeches. I have to ask… how do you hang out with him if he doesn't have contact/discussion with you? Must be fairly boring.

Me too.

Someone once tried to persuade me I must be Christian because I had been christened. That I was incapable of thought at the time seemed irrelevant to them. They weren't even religious themselves, which was odd.
That is Dogma.

One can not be MADE Christian.

Had to be a Catholic, no offense to catholics, but they are the only ones I know who practice the ritual of infant christening.

I wouldnt have siad you must be a Christian, I would have said "you must be a Boat".

Whenever someone tells em they are christian, I feel sorry for them and all respect is lost for them.

I don't understand how someone could believe in garbage like that, let alone want to follow an imaginary mass murderers demands.

I think religious people are only so because they are child molesters or something and are looking for a simple way to ease their conscience. I'm a security guard at Kent institution in BC, and the prisoners LOVE their religion, being lazy, stupid and guilty makes for the best christians. %99 of inmates that come up for parole have claimed to have "found god". Unfortunately, there's more churches than 7/11's in this area so the criminals are back on the streets killing and raping in no time.


Jeremiah 4:22

22 "My people are fools;
they do not know me.
They are senseless children;
they have no understanding.
They are skilled in doing evil;
they know not how to do good."

This sums up christians fairly well I must say.
You must be one of those Bull-Homosexuals who gets a job at prison so he can have a captive selection of victims to force himself upon.
You give Atheists a bad name, you ignorant twit.

You must be one of those Bull-Homosexuals who gets a job at prison so he can have a captive selection of victims to force himself upon.
You give Atheists a bad name, you ignorant twit.
Dude. This is my thread. I will not tolerate any homosexuality/phobia, flaming or extended hijacks. Have some respect. :)

Whenever someone tells em they are christian, I feel sorry for them and all respect is lost for them.

I don't understand how someone could believe in garbage like that, let alone want to follow an imaginary mass murderers demands.

I think religious people are only so because they are child molesters or something and are looking for a simple way to ease their conscience. I'm a security guard at Kent institution in BC, and the prisoners LOVE their religion, being lazy, stupid and guilty makes for the best christians. %99 of inmates that come up for parole have claimed to have "found god". Unfortunately, there's more churches than 7/11's in this area so the criminals are back on the streets killing and raping in no time.


Jeremiah 4:22

22 "My people are fools;
they do not know me.
They are senseless children;
they have no understanding.
They are skilled in doing evil;
they know not how to do good."

This sums up christians fairly well I must say. When someone tells me they believe in heliocentricity, I feel sorry and lose all respect for them. I mean, the idea that the world is a ball shape (because apparently, a sphere is a natural shape), which magically sucks the people to it because it's heavy, so they don't fall off.

We're not all child molesters, some of us are inquisitors as well… like me.

Obviously the vast majority of Americans are quite devout Christians, so I was wondering, what is their typical reaction to someone who, when the question arises, declares that they are an atheist?

Does their initial warmth evaporate? Any forced smiles? Is there any exchange of glances, a "he's not one of ours" subtext? Do you subsequently feel your judgement considered suspect?

Perhaps this is less the case with adults, but is this perhaps the case in the social minefield of young people's interactions?

Just wondering. :)As a Christian, I can only say, that the subject of Religion rarely comes up between me and my friends. I believe some of them are Athiest, I know a couple of them are Buddists and Catholic. but simply put, our group rarely talks about religion and politics.

I have lived in the far east for a while, and visited quite a number of times since I moved back to the UK. There are some people there who cannot grasp the concept of there not being a god or gods. They generally do not care what god(s) you worship, as most people I spoke to would say they are just different incarnations/sides of whatever god(s) they worship. However, tell them you do not beleive god(s) exist, and they cannot grasp that concept.

As a child of parents who gave me no religious upbringing, I was free to form my own views, and I did. What must it be like to be so brainwashed by your upbringing to believe in Christianity the way many Americans do? I personally can't imagine anything more heinous than to be so deceived, and don't envy these people their misguided lives.

As a child of parents who gave me no religious upbringing, I was free to form my own views, and I did. What must it be like to be so brainwashed by your upbringing to believe in Christianity the way many Americans do? I personally can't imagine anything more heinous than to be so deceived, and don't envy these people their misguided lives. Agreed. Indoctrination is no faith at all, no thought.
Food for thought: are those who become Christians of their own volition generally more "sensible" than those who are indoctrinated?

Most people don't seem to visibly have a problem with me being an atheist, but I have the feeling I've got a bunch of relatives praying for god to save my poor soul. If peoples' prayers get you into heaven, I think I might have a room reserved for me there by now. Anyway, even so, I'm not a horrible, immoral person. I do have a set of morals and I follow them almost exactly.
I've had people try to convert me back to Christianity. My Catholic grandmother is the worst sometimes. She still gets on my case about getting my conformation, even though I would be lying throughout the entire process, which kind of defeats the purpose. Sometimes my grandmother is the most annoying person on the planet... :headbang: Other than my sister, of course.
However, I feel really guilty every time I go to my uber-religious Christian cousins' house. It probably doesn't help that I wear a cat collar, most of my clothes are black, and my jeans are completely torn up at the bottoms. I always feel like my aunt is going to use me as an example of sin once I've left. In a way I wouldn't really blame her for doing that. I probably seem like a horrible teenager, like somehow my parents screwed up when they were raising me. I do feel like somehow I'm going to corrupt my cousins, even though I don't swear around them and I'm really careful about my behavior and speech.

But religion in general makes a really good debate topic among my friends and I, as I'm atheist, one friend is a Druid, another's a Jew/agnostic, and the last one is one of the Christians who I think Jesus would not be ashamed of. Our discussions can be interesting to say the least.

Most Americans are christians, but not so much "devout". They are believers but it's generally not a huge deal for them and most people don't bring it up in polite company. I've had the occasional attempt at conversion, but they were few and far between.

Obviously the vast majority of Americans are quite devout Christians, so I was wondering, what is their typical reaction to someone who, when the question arises, declares that they are an atheist?

Does their initial warmth evaporate? Any forced smiles? Is there any exchange of glances, a "he's not one of ours" subtext? Do you subsequently feel your judgement considered suspect?

Perhaps this is less the case with adults, but is this perhaps the case in the social minefield of young people's interactions?

Just wondering. :)
I'm agnostic but a friend of mine is atheist. He says he's always getting funny looks when he mentions his beliefs, or lack of. I get some grief because some people think being an atheist and being an agnostic are the same thing. But my friend said some people can also be really friendly about it or not care that he's atheist. I've definitely got it easier than him when people try to convert us. I can say I believe in god and they leave me alone, but they hound him about believing in god.

Me too.

Someone once tried to persuade me I must be Christian because I had been christened. That I was incapable of thought at the time seemed irrelevant to them. They weren't even religious themselves, which was odd.
Yeah, when you have clearly non-specific deists/theists (who have never heard of these terms) trying to tell you that you're a Christian because you've been brought up in Britain... and these are otherwise rational friends. I nearly bit the fuckers' heads off, I think I scared 'em! My agnosticism is important to me, just as a Christian's faith is to them. Telling people they're something that they're clearly not... Grrr!

So, 75%-ish of Brits are Christians? Nah. Maybe 50%. Practicing? 10% at most. Devout Christians - 5%, tops. Mind, I'm pulling figures out of my arse here.

You know something's wrong when people are scared of admitting that they're a non-believer. That's just crazy.

EDIT, 'cos I'm on a roll... it can work both ways. I know obvious theists (again, otherwise intelligent friends) who claim to be agnostic because they think this means 'religious but non-denominational'. Aaaaargghh!

never saw it, never heard of it...i guess i missed out?

You poor, sheltered soul.

WATCH
IT
NOW

...or you will be forever damned.

Here's how I feel about it. I am personally, a Christian. Which means that I believe that Jesus Christ died for the sins of man, and that I must believe in Him to have redemption for my sins. You can be a devout Christian without going to church even one day. (Though it does help, and is encouraged scripturally.) Being devout, I feel, means you work at your faith daily, to bring yourself as close to being like Jesus as is possible. It has nothing to do with the number of times you go to church. So, therefore, someone who does not is not necessarily a hypocrite.

I do not proselytize, however. Yes, we are supposed to do that. But I was an agnostic once, and I recognize that most people run like crazy from someone who attempts to do that, dismiss them utterly, or lash back out at them. It's basic human nature. People will not listen to an opinion that they are not ready to hear or accept. So I keep my faith to myself, unless someone asks. Then, I might proselytize. Until then, I try to lead by example.

My experience has taught me, (at least on this forum) is that the atheists, as a rule, are far more aggressive with their beliefs. I cannot count the number of time I have seen Christians flamed on this forum. And most often, just for identifying them selves as such. Anyone who is THAT pushy with their religious views are either is in grave need of returning to the Bible to seek out the answers to why they have become a frothing lunatic or are needing some other means of achieving harmony within themselves before foisting their venom on an unsuspecting public.

We are all different. Nothing wrong with that.

(Ducking and running for cover.....) :)

You poor, sheltered soul.

WATCH
IT
NOW

...or you will be forever damned.

*puts on to do list*

Whenever someone tells em they are christian, I feel sorry for them and all respect is lost for them.

I don't understand how someone could believe in garbage like that, let alone want to follow an imaginary mass murderers demands.

I think religious people are only so because they are child molesters or something and are looking for a simple way to ease their conscience.
This is just flaming. Consider yourself reported.

To kind of throw out the fact that a vast majority of americans are christian as false, i shall quote some scipture:

"Thou Believest that there is one God; Thou doest well: the devils also believe and tremble" James 2:19(KJV)

Meaning just becasue you believe in God or say you are a follower doesn't mean so...If that were the case the demons would be christians... food for thought

When I was in highschool someone once refused to give me a sticker because I was an atheist.

To be honest the topic isnt raised much, at least not among anyone at my university.

There are preaching whackjobs who stand on lawns and rant at passersby, but no one really pays much attention to them.

I do usually sense a mistrust or veiled hostility or disbelief when it is made known to fundementalists that I'm an atheist.

I confess, however, that I am mistrustful of christians fundementalists myself.

I'm agnostic but a friend of mine is atheist. He says he's always getting funny looks when he mentions his beliefs, or lack of. I get some grief because some people think being an atheist and being an agnostic are the same thing. But my friend said some people can also be really friendly about it or not care that he's atheist. I've definitely got it easier than him when people try to convert us. I can say I believe in god and they leave me alone, but they hound him about believing in god.

Er, but if you're agnostic you shouldn't believe in god any more than an atheist does, just without the firm belief in god's non-existence. I'm an agnostic and that's what it means to me, maybe you have a different interpretation.

I've never had much problem with being a athiest, other than being suspended from my CoE primary school (I refused to sing hymms or pray ect.) I get a few funny looks and I've been lectured once by my new nextdoor nabour (A vicar) but thats fine now, I promise not to blastpheme in front of his sons and critise the church and he dosnn't complain.

But other than that being a atheists fine.

I'm not an atheist, although I do have a lot of trouble with the basic idea of a God, but I'm an agnostic who was once an atheist. There were two types of responses I got. The best examples of each kind were oddly, both very religious.

Response one: The definative response for this group was from a group member on a major project. We had started debating politics, and someone asked "Don't you accept God and his teachings?" and I replied "No. I'm an atheist." A girl gasped with horror and said "You aren't!" After that I got no respect in the least from any of them.

Response two: I have a friend who is a mormon and when he found out about my beleifs (from another friend of mine) he simply shrugged and said "I can't understand how you can live that way, but ok." and that was that. He doesn't call me a fool, I don't confront him about his beleifs. We do debate, but we manage to keep it respectful.

I like to get Response two's a lot more than I like Response one's, but it can be fun to torment the occasional "one" if he or she is being particularly rude/pushy.

Ha, from most of what I've witnessed they drag the proclaimed atheist into a dark alley and exorcise them...
Not really... but kinda, usually involves a lot of 'WHY NOT?! Jesus loves you COME TO MY CHURCH SUNDAY..and wednesday..EVERYDAY!' I never talk about religion... or politics... or just about anything with the people 'round 'ere.

I'm neither American nor Atheist, but this's turning into a nice topic, so I've got to kill it with my presence while it's still good. ^^

My spirituality and reasoning are such that most Christians assume I'm one of them and most Atheists assume I'm one of them. Generally, I don't flaunt my beliefs with the exception of these forums (where it's in a purely discursive form and I try not to evangelise or anything). Though on the rare occasion I have revealed my thought pattern (which is arguably more Atheist than Christian) to a group of reasonably confident Christian friends, I got one "Hrm... I don't like it...", one enthusiastic "That is fascinating!" and three awkward silences (who probably either didn't quite get it or didn't want to say anything out of fear of "picking sides" accusations).

Generally, though, my response to openly atheist Americans is to question what the God is that you don't believe in; usually with the result that most of them simply refute the Christian God rather than going any deeper than that. And that sort of comment irritates both sides of the discussion simply because no-one's prepared for it. Which is fun. I like breaking up bipartitianist thinking patterns. ^^

Say I have a question, I suppose it would be for Tactical Grace since this is his/her (I dont know Tact's gender) thread and I know Tact to be one who does not easily fly off the handle.

I have read people claim Atheists have no morals, becausethey dont believe in a higher power.

Now I do indeed believe in a higher power and Judgement and so forth and so on.

I am not accusing--I want to know.

What is your motivation to be moral when if you are good at being immoral--you have no consequences to deal with beyond the fruit of your effort.

Do you know what I mean?

For instance, I do indeed associate my Moral strength to my desire not to disappoint God.

I dont steal when I know I can get away with it because I sincerely feel God is watching and while he wouldforgive me at my request--I would be a disappointment.
You can essentially attach any immoral act-sin whatever to that statement.

Now Ihave been frank, and opened myself up to the slanderous remarks of all the faithful bashers here who will begin chorus of "I'd hate to think what kind of a person you would be if you didnt believe in God".

But I am being honest in my query, and in my introspection.

So what motivates you Tact in being a moral person?
I am not looking for bait for an arguement I am asking a sincere question.

Obviously the vast majority of Americans are quite devout Christians, so I was wondering, what is their typical reaction to someone who, when the question arises, declares that they are an atheist?

Does their initial warmth evaporate? Any forced smiles? Is there any exchange of glances, a "he's not one of ours" subtext? Do you subsequently feel your judgement considered suspect?

Perhaps this is less the case with adults, but is this perhaps the case in the social minefield of young people's interactions?

Just wondering. :)Coming from a large Mormon family, I get quite a lot of funny looks, mostly sympathetic. Sympathy. Whatever.

Say I have a question, I suppose it would be for Tactical Grace since this is his/her (I dont know Tact's gender) thread and I know Tact to be one who does not easily fly off the handle.

I have read people claim Atheists have no morals, becausethey dont believe in a higher power.

Now I do indeed believe in a higher power and Judgement and so forth and so on.

I am not accusing--I want to know.

What is your motivation to be moral when if you are good at being immoral--you have no consequences to deal with beyond the fruit of your effort.

Do you know what I mean?

For instance, I do indeed associate my Moral strength to my desire not to disappoint God.

I dont steal when I know I can get away with it because I sincerely feel God is watching and while he wouldforgive me at my request--I would be a disappointment.
You can essentially attach any immoral act-sin whatever to that statement.

Now Ihave been frank, and opened myself up to the slanderous remarks of all the faithful bashers here who will begin chorus of "I'd hate to think what kind of a person you would be if you didnt believe in God".

But I am being honest in my query, and in my introspection.

So what motivates you Tact in being a moral person?
I am not looking for bait for an arguement I am asking a sincere question.


It is simple it boils down to what a lot of religious people feel as well (a sort of humanistic point of view) it feels wrong to hurt others

Simple as that … actions that hurt others un necessarily are wrong.

So what motivates you Tact in being a moral person?
I am not looking for bait for an arguement I am asking a sincere question.
*Flutters eyelashes*

j/k - I'm a guy. ;)

I suppose you could say I am a victim of the ambient morality. My moral compass is set not by a fixed set of preached values, but by the prevailing moral currents of society.

The way I see it, a complex society is essentially a problem-solving entity (after Joseph A Tainter). There are a number of morals which could be said to be universal human values - not stealing, not killing, no excessive lying - for whether one is religious or not, it is self-evident that these tend to seriously damage the group effort and one's social standing. It is therefore to the advantage of both the individual and his/her society that these values be subscribed to. My motivation is in equal measure benevolence and self-interest.

Then there are a number of what I term 'political' morals, dealing with sex, marriage, abortion, and so on. The religious debate has recently veered off towards these more frivolous arguments, as there is no longer any argument over the core values of humanity. Needless to say, I view these as optional. They do not, in my opinion, have a significant effect on a society's problem-solving ability and survival.

Details of personal politics aside, the religious and non-religious have their behaviour moderated in equal measure by a form of higher authority - gods in the case of the former, society in the case of the latter. The effect is broadly the same, it should not be noticable which is the case.

As I already said, disagreements over who is more 'moral' are being fought over rather frivolous territory, and in that realm my response is meh, because as far as social stability is concerned, it does not matter how moral one is in that realm.

Well, very informative answer.

I must readily admit I dont understand it.

I am an opportunist by nature, not immoral, but I believe I am a little amoral.
If there really is a difference there.

I do not believe in preying on weak people, there is no sport in that-I am for the moment dismissing my Faith.

I do not believe in killing--without purpose.

I do not believe there exists any deed so evil as harming a child--

That ends my natural Moral Boundries.

I place very little value on Society as a whole, I disdain it for the most part and through the example of Christ fight to love each person--enemy or no.

So it would appear that in this instance it is the Atheist who does not wrestle with Morality, but the Faithful.

I feel as I gather you do, that this particular question and answer is as varied as each person.

I know this is off topic but is the U.K. and Europe as religous as much as America.

Also I don't think that most of American youth is very religous. I know I'm not. I don't even have a religion.

Yes, there IS a section of society that consist of bad people. Criminals and the like, who deal with their "sin" by reading the bible everyday. I wouldn't say thats all that common though.

About the way christians view an athiest. Yes, there are those that will try to convince you to switch sides. As if their words are enough to do so. And they annoy me to an extreme extent. But I've found that fellow athiests are more often than not the side thats more prejudiced. See there IS a truth in the sterotyoing that we get. In the fact that a HUGE portion of those in the athiest camp... at least in American culture, are there because they tried to rebel against their parents in youth. People who became athiest out of spite, and thats why we carry such a bad name in this society. The same reason "Goth" has become known as the crowd at a Manson concert heh.

And as far as talking about relegion. I GENERALLY avoid it all togethor. I've found over the years as my views have developed, that I now successfully offend EVERYONE when I explain my views on relegion heh. People tend to be bothered when you tell them something they hold so dear is a weakness in the human species.

Morality is hardly clear-cut, empirically.

Most likely, based on what we know, the innate moral compulsion in many people is simply a characteristic of our species, developed over time to assist in social cohesion.

I have powerful moral sentiments about what is right and wrong, and they inform my opinions on both religion and politics.

I agree I think that the world would be better without religion. It would solve the Middle East problem if there wasn't any religion.

But I think religion will always be around because people will always be curious, and I think that religion is nothing but a man's theory on what will happen after they die. Also To try to explain what happened before recorded history, and to try to explain why things happen. Plus it gives the people something to believe in. Even if it is very hypocritical like Christianity. But I do believe that religion is one of the bad things humans created. But in those ancient times it was the only way to explain things.

I feel as I gather you do, that this particular question and answer is as varied as each person.
Indeed it is. To ask an individual what informs the self-imposed boundaries on their conduct, is rather like asking who an individual is, how they became thus, what informed their identity. Everyone interprets their context in their own unique way.

I agree I think that the world would be better without religion. It would solve the Middle East problem if there wasn't any religion.

But I think religion will always be around because people will always be curious, and I think that religion is nothing but a man's theory on what will happen after they die. Also To try to explain what happened before recorded history, and to try to explain why things happen. Plus it gives the people something to believe in. Even if it is very hypocritical like Christianity. But I do believe that religion is one of the bad things humans created. But in those ancient times it was the only way to explain things.

It would not solve the middle East Problem--all faiths involved teach tolerance for the opposng faiths--Islam especially.

That region has been in turmoil longer then the Abrahamic religions have existed.

It would not solve the middle East Problem--all faiths involved teach tolerance for the opposng faiths--Islam especially.

That region has been in turmoil longer then the Abrahamic religions have existed.


Indeed, the battle is over land more than it is over religion. The wars of europe, which have been ten thousand times more brutal, devestating and costly have rarely been based genuinely on religion.

Religion contributes primarily to people hurting their neighbors, be it by forcing the burka, stoning adulturesses or outlawing gay marriage.

I know Islam teaches tolerance. They were a lot more tolerent then the Catholics during the Middle Ages. And I know some Muslims and they told me Islam promotes tolerance. But religion ALSO breeds radicals. Rather they be Muslim, Christian, Jew, or whatever. Also what other problems were there in the Middle East before Islam. The Jews had problems with the Romans and religion also played a role in that. So could you tell me what those problems were.

Food for thought: are those who become Christians of their own volition generally more "sensible" than those who are indoctrinated?
In my experience, no.

Have you found any proof of what you said yet Bedou?

But I think religion will always be around because people will always be curious, and I think that religion is nothing but a man's theory on what will happen after they die. Also To try to explain what happened before recorded history, and to try to explain why things happen. Plus it gives the people something to believe in. Even if it is very hypocritical like Christianity. But I do believe that religion is one of the bad things humans created. But in those ancient times it was the only way to explain things.


That hit into the less offensive side of my opinions pretty well. heh

Coming from a large Mormon family, I get quite a lot of funny looks, mostly sympathetic. Sympathy. Whatever.

I'd like to add that the responses some give athiests aren't unique to their beliefs. I am a Mormon, and I'm sure that many of the Christians in this country think that I'll be right alongside the athiests in burning for all eternity. I grew up with some fifteen or so Mormons in a high school of several thousand. Fortunately, it was a place where there was no dominant religion, so I didn't take as much flak as I've seen elsewhere, but I can tell you that there are an abundance of nasty and hypocritical "Christians" out there. All the athiests/agnostics I ever met kept their ideas to themselves, and didn't have a daily go at mine, so there was more respect between us than, say, the local large Protestant church. When you are in the majority, please don't ever persecute the minority for their beliefs or opinions - this alone goes a long way towards promoting respect ;) .

You don't need a god or a religion to be moral. Morality is a very personal thing and comes from knowing the difference between right and wrong in a contextual situation.

I agree I think that the world would be better without religion. It would solve the Middle East problem if there wasn't any religion.


Nah... In cases like that Religion is just a ready excuse and a rally call to be assholes to the other side. If there was not religion it would be race, nationality, hair color, height, gender, whatever. The list of excuses people have used to be pricks to others is almost endless.

I don't introduce myself 'Hello, I'm George, I think your God and Messiah are myths and you've been systematically duped into that institutional mind control you call religion' but if the subject comes up I make my beliefs known and find people, in general, if not accepting at leaste tolerant.

'Hello, I'm George, I think your God and Messiah are myths and you've been systematically duped into that institutional mind control you call religion'

Can I reply with "LOL"?

Obviously the vast majority of Americans are quite devout Christians, so I was wondering, what is their typical reaction to someone who, when the question arises, declares that they are an atheist?

Does their initial warmth evaporate? Any forced smiles? Is there any exchange of glances, a "he's not one of ours" subtext? Do you subsequently feel your judgement considered suspect?

Perhaps this is less the case with adults, but is this perhaps the case in the social minefield of young people's interactions?

Just wondering. :)
Some older members of my family don't want to hear about it, most of my friends accept it (even the devout christian ones). One of my friends wasn't sure what it meant. He asked if I was a devil worshipper. I assured him that I wasn't and he's cool with it.

Obviously the vast majority of Americans are quite devout Christians, so I was wondering, what is their typical reaction to someone who, when the question arises, declares that they are an atheist?

Does their initial warmth evaporate? Any forced smiles? Is there any exchange of glances, a "he's not one of ours" subtext? Do you subsequently feel your judgement considered suspect?

Perhaps this is less the case with adults, but is this perhaps the case in the social minefield of young people's interactions?

Just wondering. :)

This has been my experience...People respond with a "What the hell is wrong with you" look on their faces and generally say "Oh..." followed by an uncomfortable silence. Or, they tell me I'm going to hell because I'm a pagan (which I then try to explain is not true as pagans worship something and I do not worship anything). The final option is the attempt at immediate conversion. Like I was looking in the wrong direction when religion was passed around and they need to get me back on track.

Warmth definitely evaporates and there are forced smiles, conversation dwindles and no one wants to hear anything on the subject at all. You do get that "not one of ours" exclusion at times, which is fine, because I'm not, but obviously, yes, I am deemed a person with a severe lack of judgement that likely has little or no common sense.

It gets worse with adults, as their values harden and solidify. There are some people I cannot talk to at all because all they want to do is help me "see the light" and they try to invite me to church meetings and prayer groups.

I don't feel it a loss. I have quite a few religious friends and relatives 9including my wife) with whom I get along with fine and we just don't discuss religion.

Obviously the vast majority of Americans are quite devout Christians, so I was wondering, what is their typical reaction to someone who, when the question arises, declares that they are an atheist?

Does their initial warmth evaporate? Any forced smiles? Is there any exchange of glances, a "he's not one of ours" subtext? Do you subsequently feel your judgement considered suspect?

Perhaps this is less the case with adults, but is this perhaps the case in the social minefield of young people's interactions?

Just wondering. :)
I'm not technically an atheist, but most Americans lump all non-Jeebus-worshippers into the same pile. I think that pretty much tells you what you need to know about the typical reaction to atheists/agnostics/secularists; most religious Americans don't even bother to educate themselves about non-God-based belief systems, to the point where they cannot distinguish atheists from agnostics from humanists. If I were to proudly declare that I can't tell the difference between a Muslim and a Christian, most Americans would think I was either crazy, stupid, or being needlessly inflamatory. But there is more difference between "strong" atheism and agnosticism than there is between Christianity and Islam!

I think the movie Dogma sums up the problem with American thinking very nicely, when a character (the Muse?) says "It doesn't matter what you have faith in, just that you have faith." That's the sort of ignorant attitude most religious Americans hold, that it doesn't matter WHICH superstition you bow to as long as you are bowing down to some imaginary being or force. As long as somebody attributes their beliefs to superstition, they are handled with kid gloves in the name of "religious freedom," while secular beliefs are regarded as somehow less valid or less meaningful.

I find it deeply funny. For instance, we give great importance to the belief that a mythic figure wants a girl to cover her head with a scarf, and we argue hotly over that girl's right to obey this mythic figure in violation of dress codes at her school, but if another student has purely rational and secular reasons for wanting to violate the dress code then only a few libertarian purists are prepared to defend their non-superstitious beliefs. Because "religious freedom" is somehow more important than non-superstitious freedom of expression. If you want your choices to be respected, Americans expect that you make up an imaginary friend (or copy somebody else's) and claim that he wants you to act a certain way or dress a certain way or eat a certain way. If you don't have an imaginary friend telling you it's important, then nobody gives a damn.

I think a friend of mine put it best:

The average Christian is, to me, sort of like a person who is wearing a funny hat. You know the hat is stupid, and it sort of bugs you, but you try to ignore it even though it is huge and floppy and bright pink with big metallic-green feathers. If you can deal with the funny hat, many Christians are pretty OK; but sooner or later, they always have to say, "So Scott, how come YOU aren't wearing a funny hat?" and I have to say, "Please fuck off."

That's the sort of ignorant attitude most religious Americans hold, that it doesn't matter WHICH superstition you bow to as long as you are bowing down to some imaginary being or force. As long as somebody attributes their beliefs to superstition, they are handled with kid gloves in the name of "religious freedom," while secular beliefs are regarded as somehow less valid or less meaningful . . . For instance, we give great importance to the belief that a mythic figure wants a girl to cover her head with a scarf, and we argue hotly over that girl's right to obey this mythic figure in violation of dress codes at her school, but if another student has purely rational and secular reasons for wanting to violate the dress code then only a few libertarian purists are prepared to defend their non-superstitious beliefs. Because "religious freedom" is somehow more important than non-superstitious freedom of expression.
I think you hit at least one nail on the head, that the right to religious expression is not only enshrined in law at least in the US, but is considered one of the most important founding principles of the nation. But non-religious people are left out, and the effect of this absence of recognition is now a refusal of recognition. :(

I think you hit at least one nail on the head, that the right to religious expression is not only enshrined in law at least in the US, but is considered one of the most important founding principles of the nation. But non-religious people are left out, and the effect of this absence of recognition is now a refusal of recognition. :(Hm... so no one has complained about schools being to secular? I'd always heard about a few incidents...
Anyway, I personally think that freedom of religion also includes the right not to believe. Denying someone that makes the whole idea hollow.

I think a friend of mine put it best:

The average Christian is, to me, sort of like a person who is wearing a funny hat. You know the hat is stupid, and it sort of bugs you, but you try to ignore it even though it is huge and floppy and bright pink with big metallic-green feathers. If you can deal with the funny hat, many Christians are pretty OK; but sooner or later, they always have to say, "So Scott, how come YOU aren't wearing a funny hat?" and I have to say, "Please fuck off."

The greatest analogy ever.

I think a friend of mine put it best:

The average Christian is, to me, sort of like a person who is wearing a funny hat. You know the hat is stupid, and it sort of bugs you, but you try to ignore it even though it is huge and floppy and bright pink with big metallic-green feathers. If you can deal with the funny hat, many Christians are pretty OK; but sooner or later, they always have to say, "So Scott, how come YOU aren't wearing a funny hat?" and I have to say, "Please fuck off."

This is a brilliant analogy...except that for me it is when we have family dinner and one of my very much younger cousins looks up during the pre-dinner prayer and says, "Mommy, how come he doesn't pray?"

Insert awkward 20 minutes of conversation here because of course no one wants to tell the child that I'm an atheist. I'd be better off announcing I was gay with my wife sitting on my lap naked.

I'd be better off announcing I was gay with my wife sitting on my lap naked.

Hell, even that only warrants a 5-10 minute conversation, as opposed to 20 minutes. :p

Hm... so no one has complained about schools being to secular? I'd always heard about a few incidents...
Anyway, I personally think that freedom of religion also includes the right not to believe. Denying someone that makes the whole idea hollow. Our headmaster just said "I will try to keep the rumour of God alive" - our school is, I suppose, a Christian school, but it's definitely institutional Christianity, if you know what I mean… basically sleepily mumbling hymns in the morning. No one really gets bothered by it… of course, teenagers generally aren't that alert in the mornings.
I had to deal at lunchtime today with my friends asking the stupidest (well, imo) questions to me about religion. THEY JUST DO NOT STOP! It's tiring. I don't particularly mind, although they seem to believe I'm an indirect supporter of Crusades and Inquisitions (rather like thinking atheists are devil worshippers, isn't it?).

Our headmaster just said "I will try to keep the rumour of God alive" - our school is, I suppose, a Christian school, but it's definitely institutional Christianity, if you know what I mean… basically sleepily mumbling hymns in the morning. No one really gets bothered by it… of course, teenagers generally aren't that alert in the mornings.
I had to deal at lunchtime today with my friends asking the stupidest (well, imo) questions to me about religion. THEY JUST DO NOT STOP! It's tiring. I don't particularly mind, although they seem to believe I'm an indirect supporter of Crusades and Inquisitions (rather like thinking atheists are devil worshippers, isn't it?).

Lisk...where is it that you go to school? I've never heard of anyone going through anything like what you describe. I know you are in England and I'm in the US, but still, it sounds totally outlandich to me.

Lisk...where is it that you go to school? I've never heard of anyone going through anything like what you describe. I know you are in England and I'm in the US, but still, it sounds totally outlandich to me.

Is is as abnormal to be strongly religious in europe as it is to be an atheist in the midwest or south.

I think a friend of mine put it best:

The average Christian is, to me, sort of like a person who is wearing a funny hat. You know the hat is stupid, and it sort of bugs you, but you try to ignore it even though it is huge and floppy and bright pink with big metallic-green feathers. If you can deal with the funny hat, many Christians are pretty OK; but sooner or later, they always have to say, "So Scott, how come YOU aren't wearing a funny hat?" and I have to say, "Please fuck off."

Your friend is a god. The analogy is brilliant if a little OTT. :D

Our headmaster just said "I will try to keep the rumour of God alive" - our school is, I suppose, a Christian school, but it's definitely institutional Christianity, if you know what I mean… basically sleepily mumbling hymns in the morning. No one really gets bothered by it… of course, teenagers generally aren't that alert in the mornings.
I had to deal at lunchtime today with my friends asking the stupidest (well, imo) questions to me about religion. THEY JUST DO NOT STOP! It's tiring. I don't particularly mind, although they seem to believe I'm an indirect supporter of Crusades and Inquisitions (rather like thinking atheists are devil worshippers, isn't it?).

I admit that I was just like your friends when I first stopped being a Christian, they'll probably calm down a bit as they get older.

If the world were to decide upon a town, and consider it to be the new religious capital of the world, based upon having the most churches per capita....

It would be the town I live in.

So, Ive seen every reaction to realizing someone is an athiest.

More othen than not, its that polite "Your going to hell and I wish you would let me save you" smile.

Although, Ive seen "you will burn in hell!" as well.

Remember people, this county was founded by frickin Puritans, and the idea of straightforward obediance to the church is ingrained on many of us.
Thus when some of us learn that a person we are talking to is an athiest, some of us are shocked.
Most are just dissapointed with you.

Try to think of it as them doing you a favor you didnt really ask for--
You must understand as a Christian they are obligated by their faith to attempt to "save" you.
The ones who dont are not living true to the Faith. I would be more offended by them.

I suppose that if they were obligated by their faith to punch me in the face I should think of that as a favour as well.

What you must understand is that as an atheist I am offended by people explaining to me how I am going to hell for my sinful existence and the like, no matter how 'polite' they are about it. I no more want to hear about how Jesus is my savior than you want to hear about how illogical the concept of a god is, so it would be best if we left each other alone.