NationStates Jolt Archive

Guardsmen 'played cards' amid New Orleans chaos
Sat Sep 3, 5:58 PM ET

NEW ORLEANS, United States (AFP) - A top New Orleans police officer said that National Guard troops sat around playing cards while people died in the stricken city after Hurricane Katrina.

New Orleans deputy police commander W.S. Riley launched a bitter attack on the federal response to the disaster though he praised the way the evacuation was eventually handled.

His remarks fuelled controversy over the government's handling of events during five days when New Orleans succumbed to lawlessness after Katrina swamped the city's flood defenses.

Guardsmen 'played cards' amid New Orleans chaos
Sat Sep 3, 5:58 PM ET

NEW ORLEANS, United States (AFP) - A top New Orleans police officer said that National Guard troops sat around playing cards while people died in the stricken city after Hurricane Katrina.

New Orleans deputy police commander W.S. Riley launched a bitter attack on the federal response to the disaster though he praised the way the evacuation was eventually handled.

His remarks fuelled controversy over the government's handling of events during five days when New Orleans succumbed to lawlessness after Katrina swamped the city's flood defenses.

WHAT!? They weren't patrolling the city 24/7? What the fuck is this world coming too?

Honestly, if they had something better to do, they would be doing it. They probably had orders to guard a certain post, or something else that had them staying in one place for a while. Im sure if they saw something under their jurisdiction, something that their orders would have allowed to help with, they would have.

What do you expect? They work for bush. Every penny they save not patrolling the streets can go to the next war of agression.

Guardsmen 'played cards' amid New Orleans chaos
Sat Sep 3, 5:58 PM ET

NEW ORLEANS, United States (AFP) - A top New Orleans police officer said that National Guard troops sat around playing cards while people died in the stricken city after Hurricane Katrina.

New Orleans deputy police commander W.S. Riley launched a bitter attack on the federal response to the disaster though he praised the way the evacuation was eventually handled.

His remarks fuelled controversy over the government's handling of events during five days when New Orleans succumbed to lawlessness after Katrina swamped the city's flood defenses.

I highly doubt that a few troops would make that much of a difference in New Orleans right now. From what I have seen, it looks like it's going to be insane no matter how many national guard troops are playing cards. The government should have sent help earlier. This would have prevented some of this.

What do you expect? They work for bush. Every penny they save not patrolling the streets can go to the next war of agression.

So, so true.

BS....ive been to New Olreans, the local police are the most corrupt people on the planet, let alone you dont hear about it a lot, but after the hurricane 2/3s of the cities police force just cut and ran, that is why those people at the convention centers were totally unprotected. I dont blame the police though, they are woefully undermanned even before disaster times...NO has the lowest police to person ratio of any semi major city in the USA.

Again ive said it a billion times, and im not even a bush supporter the guy is stupid, but the blame is totally on the local government if you have ANY understanding on how emergency management is done.

I mean come on you guys say the patriot act is sooo terrible yet you want this massive all knowing government to protect you all the time from a natural disaster!? wtf... The local government is supposed to take charge...fema just plugs into and provides heavy resource support for the local and state goverments

What is sad is the mayor of NO has done jack shit this entire time, other then run to radio stations and do interviews trying to press blame on the federal government..

Just let me make sure I've got one fact straight here. How long before Katrina hit NO were the meteorologists aware of its path, and how intense a hurricane it was? If they were aware of what was going to happen, why weren't things done to set up for the aftermath?

What do you expect? They work for bush. Every penny they save not patrolling the streets can go to the next war of agression.

Hey, go screw yourself.

Of course, the guardsmen are only human. Being such, they can only do so much before they need a break to rest and recup. Otherwise you'd have half-awake twitchy guardsmen who wouldn't be thinking clearly and may cause more harm than good. Perhaps these people had already been helping for hours straight, what should they do? Summon their non-existant super powers and press on without relief for another 24 hours. Perhaps they could rebuild the city single-handedly.

They can't go 24/7, so I wouldn't be so quick to condem them.


As for the "saving money for another war" comment...people, give a little thought to what you type.

Of course, the guardsmen are only human. Being such, they can only do so much before they need a break to rest and recup. Otherwise you'd have half-awake twitchy guardsmen who wouldn't be thinking clearly and may cause more harm than good. Perhaps these people had already been helping for hours straight, what should they do? Summon their non-existant super powers and press on without relief for another 24 hours. Perhaps they could rebuild the city single-handedly.

Exactly.

Hey, go screw yourself.


It's alot harder than it sounds...

Not to mention some of them are awaiting orders for deployment.

Remember that there are 30,000 national guardsmen down there right now. Some don't have orders yet so what do you do to pass the time? You play cards.

It's alot harder than it sounds...

Did I ask you how hard it sounds? No, I told you to do it.

HI,

Before we all go crazy on this, can we have a link to the article and/or news service you found this in?

I know as a disaster relief person, we would work for 20 hours straight, then the 4 hours off try and sleep and/or relax when we couldn't by playing cards, eating, reading or writing home. I'm not saying this is/isn't the case, but come on - a) give us the paper so we can make sure this isn't taken out of context, and b) have the opportunity to check the facts.

Yes, more could and can be done, but I'm not willing to rush to judgement for or against any of our service people - part of their delays were that they can't just go out and work - they have to wait on "orders" or be considered awol. Welcome to life in the military.

~Rose

Did I ask you how hard it sounds? No, I told you to do it.

What possible pleasure could you gather from me screwing myself?

What possible pleasure could you gather from me screwing myself?

Chellis is telling you to shut the hell up in not so polite terms.

Chellis is telling you to shut the hell up in not so polite terms.

I'm glad you clarified that, that could have gone on forever. :)

What possible pleasure could you gather from me screwing myself?

Again, did I ask you your thoughts on the subject? No? I thought not.

Chellis is telling you to shut the hell up in not so polite terms.

I knew THAT. I was humouring him,as he knows that I will never "shut up".

I knew THAT. I was humouring him,as he knows that I will never "shut up".

You dont have to shut up. You could try not being an idiot, but I thought might be asking too much. I figured screwing yourself might be easier for you.

Hey, go screw yourself.
You have over 6000 posts, don't succumb to his idiocy.

You dont have to shut up. You could try not being an idiot, but I thought might be asking too much. I figured screwing yourself might be easier for you.


One man's idiot is another man's savant...

Riley said that for the first three days after Monday's storm, which is believed to have killed several thousand people, the police and fire departments and some volunteers had been alone in trying to rescue people.

"We expected a lot more support from the federal government. We expected the government to respond within 24 hours. The first three days we had no assistance," he told AFP in an interview.

Riley went on: "We have been fired on with automatic weapons. We still have some thugs around. My biggest disappointment is with the federal government and the National Guard.

"The guard arrived 48 hours after the hurricane with 40 trucks. They drove their trucks in and went to sleep.

"For 72 hours this police department and the fire department and handful of citizens were alone rescuing people. We have people who died while the National Guard sat and played cards.

Riley said that for the first three days after Monday's storm, which is believed to have killed several thousand people, the police and fire departments and some volunteers had been alone in trying to rescue people.

"We expected a lot more support from the federal government. We expected the government to respond within 24 hours. The first three days we had no assistance," he told AFP in an interview.

Riley went on: "We have been fired on with automatic weapons. We still have some thugs around. My biggest disappointment is with the federal government and the National Guard.

"The guard arrived 48 hours after the hurricane with 40 trucks. They drove their trucks in and went to sleep.

"For 72 hours this police department and the fire department and handful of citizens were alone rescuing people. We have people who died while the National Guard sat and played cards.


Again, bush penny pitching for the next war...

Chellis is telling you to shut the hell up in not so polite terms.and for that he got reported to the mods.

Riley said that for the first three days after Monday's storm, which is believed to have killed several thousand people, the police and fire departments and some volunteers had been alone in trying to rescue people.

"We expected a lot more support from the federal government. We expected the government to respond within 24 hours. The first three days we had no assistance," he told AFP in an interview.
...

"For 72 hours this police department and the fire department and handful of citizens were alone rescuing people. We have people who died while the National Guard sat and played cards.

Yes, the government should have helped more. But the National Guard needs a break once in a while. Some of those people would have died whether the National Guard was there or not.

Riley said that for the first three days after Monday's storm, which is believed to have killed several thousand people, the police and fire departments and some volunteers had been alone in trying to rescue people.

"We expected a lot more support from the federal government. We expected the government to respond within 24 hours. The first three days we had no assistance," he told AFP in an interview.

Riley went on: "We have been fired on with automatic weapons. We still have some thugs around. My biggest disappointment is with the federal government and the National Guard.

"The guard arrived 48 hours after the hurricane with 40 trucks. They drove their trucks in and went to sleep.

"For 72 hours this police department and the fire department and handful of citizens were alone rescuing people. We have people who died while the National Guard sat and played cards.

Troops are people too. We have to sleep, we cant be constantly vigilant. We arent fucking superhero's. Dont blame us for this. We have our orders, and we follow them. Show where troops are refusing to follow orders, and then you have a case to bitch at us.

One man's idiot is another man's savant...

You are making generalizations on people who you do not know one bit. What does that make you?

Riley said that for the first three days after Monday's storm, which is believed to have killed several thousand people, the police and fire departments and some volunteers had been alone in trying to rescue people.

"We expected a lot more support from the federal government. We expected the government to respond within 24 hours. The first three days we had no assistance," he told AFP in an interview.

Riley went on: "We have been fired on with automatic weapons. We still have some thugs around. My biggest disappointment is with the federal government and the National Guard.

"The guard arrived 48 hours after the hurricane with 40 trucks. They drove their trucks in and went to sleep.

"For 72 hours this police department and the fire department and handful of citizens were alone rescuing people. We have people who died while the National Guard sat and played cards.

Bullcrap, read what i wrote, the mayor just ran off to the media since day 1 of that storm, thats all he has done, his police force were so corrupted beforehand they couldnt even be called a police force, and they dissentegrated almost right after the flooding took place, crist they have video of the POLICE looting some stores as well...

Hell look it up under NOPD corruption on Google, the damn cities police force was almost taken up under federal control because it was so filthy and corrupted, they were actually MURDERING people.

These are just shameful quotes from an inept Mayor trying to save is own ass to hide the fact he was totally incompetient of what his job WAS to be in a disaster. He should be tried and exicuted.

Riley said that for the first three days after Monday's storm, which is believed to have killed several thousand people, the police and fire departments and some volunteers had been alone in trying to rescue people.

Good. They were doing their jobs!

"We expected a lot more support from the federal government. We expected the government to respond within 24 hours. The first three days we had no assistance," he told AFP in an interview.

Where was state and local authorities? It is there jobs to handle these types of things. Not the federal governments. Also, in order to respond, you have to get there first. For that, you have to wait for the winds to die down.

Riley went on: "We have been fired on with automatic weapons. We still have some thugs around. My biggest disappointment is with the federal government and the National Guard.

The National Guard is now there. Thirty Thousand plus or so I've heard. Many have been given orders and they are doing their job. Again, it isn't the Federal Government's job to handle disaster situations like this. This is more of a state/local issue.

"The guard arrived 48 hours after the hurricane with 40 trucks. They drove their trucks in and went to sleep.

Depending on where they came in from, that isn't such a surprise. Also, they have to wait for orders on where to go. There orders come from military officials and not by civilian authority.

"For 72 hours this police department and the fire department and handful of citizens were alone rescuing people. We have people who died while the National Guard sat and played cards.

The military has a strict chain of command that must be followed otherwise the consequences doing bode well. I suggest you learn about military command and control.

Yes, the government should have helped more. But the National Guard needs a break once in a while. Some of those people would have died whether the National Guard was there or not.It appears to me that the the National guard should have been providing security at the Superdome and convention centers (thats the very least I would espect from HLS)

....taking a break?...they dont all have to "take a break" at the same time do they?

I mean they can take turns to "take breaks", "play cards" or whatever...they dont all have to go to the bathroom at the same time...do they?

It appears to me that the the National guard should have been providing security at the Superdome and convention centers (thats the very least I would espect from HLS)

....taking a break?...they dont all have to "take a break" at the same time do they?

I mean they can take turns to "take breaks", "play cards" or whatever...they dont all have to go to the bathroom at the same time...do they?

I think they probably were taking turns to play cards...since I doubt that the thousands of National Guard troops in New Orleans were all playing a giant game of poker...

You know I find this entire thing both ironic and really worrying. The US is at the momment the most powerful nation on earth but as we have been shown by this it only takes one incident, albiet a reasnobly nasty one, for civil order to completely break down and for gun battles to start.

It worries me that even if the most powerful nation can fall apart so rapidly and so horribly what would happen to the rest of the world.

A couple of days ago i opened the paper and there was a picture of an APC with armed troops on top driving down a street in New Orleans. At first I assumed it was Iraq or something but it was in America.

Does that not worry anyone else? Images of the most powerful nations streets being patrolled by armoured vechiles? It just makes you think how fragile the whole global system is.

....taking a break?...they dont all have to "take a break" at the same time do they?

I mean they can take turns to "take breaks", "play cards" or whatever...they dont all have to go to the bathroom at the same time...do they?
Do you have any evidence they were all taking a break at the same time? Or are you just bashing the military just because you can?

You know I find this entire thing both ironic and really worrying. The US is at the momment the most powerful nation on earth but as we have been shown by this it only takes one incident, albiet a reasnobly nasty one, for civil order to completely break down and for gun battles to start.

It worries me that even if the most powerful nation can fall apart so rapidly and so horribly what would happen to the rest of the world.

A couple of days ago i opened the paper and there was a picture of an APC with armed troops on top driving down a street in New Orleans. At first I assumed it was Iraq or something but it was in America.

Does that not worry anyone else? Images of the most powerful nations streets being patrolled by armoured vechiles? It just makes you think how fragile the whole global system is.

You have to remember that our president IS George W. Bush. We're far from invincible.

You have to remember that our president IS George W. Bush. We're far from invincible.


Perhaps the understatement of the Century...

In a second poll in as many days, U.S. President George Bush's public approval rating has fallen to a record low 45 percent Bush's standing is worse than any other modern president at this point in a second term except Richard Nixon, who was then enmeshed in the Watergate scandal.
Perhaps the understatement of the Century...
Yes, it just might be. And about half of the country agrees with me too :)

It appears to me that the the National guard should have been providing security at the Superdome and convention centers (thats the very least I would espect from HLS)

....taking a break?...they dont all have to "take a break" at the same time do they?

I mean they can take turns to "take breaks", "play cards" or whatever...they dont all have to go to the bathroom at the same time...do they?

I dont know about those individual troops, but we get about 7 hours to sleep around here, after working all day, and having to work all of the next day. We dont even get breaks, other than a tiny one to eat once in a while, and a couple other ones when we are waiting for something(A door is locked that shouldnt be, etc).

These troops are facing actual danger. Im guessing they are spending at least 12 hours a day working, facing armed citizenry, helping people, etc. Im sure its a hell of a lot more difficult, physically at the least, than whatever job you are doing.

They need breaks. And just because a small group takes a break at once, so what? Its probably better for morale, for starters. Even in wartime, if a squad was under sporadic fire, etc, two fireteams would probably be on duty, while a third ate, and rested. Fireteams being four people, plenty to play a game of cards.

Yes, it just might. And about half of the country agrees with me too :)

You might want to realize that not all national guard soldiers voted for, or even like Bush. And that the NG is not Bush, and we are not controlled by him, except in a vague sense.

These troops are facing actual danger. Im guessing they are spending at least 12 hours a day working, facing armed citizenry, helping people, etc. Im sure its a hell of a lot more difficult, physically at the least, than whatever job you are doing.


Or whatever job anyone is doing for that matter.

You might want to realize that not all national guard soldiers voted for, or even like Bush. And that the NG is not Bush, and we are not controlled by him, except in a vague sense.

True. Point taken.

True. Point taken.

Thats all I ask.

It appears to me that the the National guard should have been providing security at the Superdome and convention centers (thats the very least I would espect from HLS)

....taking a break?...they dont all have to "take a break" at the same time do they?

I mean they can take turns to "take breaks", "play cards" or whatever...they dont all have to go to the bathroom at the same time...do they?
Of course as has been stated before the guardsmen have to be given the order to do so.
They can't just plop them down in the city, say "Go help" and expect any sort of massive, organized, positive results.
So they get deployed, and may have to sit and wait while the brass figures out how they want them to handle the situation.

Any sort of large scale crowd control (ala the convention centers) would take massive amounts of planning and coordination, otherwise it could very easily turn into a massive riot causing more death, more damage, and leaving the situation worse of. Not to mention some dumbasses are shooting at various rescue vehicles.

Antre_Travarious']Do you have any evidence they were all taking a break at the same time? Or are you just bashing the military just because you can?If you would quote my full Post...you may notice that Its not just that they were Playing cars...Its that the Guard was not Providing Security at The Superdome or conventin centers...If fact the Guard was invisible the first days...

Playying cards? taking Braks? Sleeping?...I dont care what they were doing...

I care about what they were NOT doing...and thats "showing up".

Maybe I should quote my Full post so you can read it the part about the Superdome.
It appears to me that the the National guard should have been providing security at the Superdome and convention centers (thats the very least I would espect from HLS)

....taking a break?...they dont all have to "take a break" at the same time do they?

I mean they can take turns to "take breaks", "play cards" or whatever...they dont all have to go to the bathroom at the same time...do they?

You might want to realize that not all national guard soldiers voted for, or even like Bush. And that the NG is not Bush, and we are not controlled by him, except in a vague sense.

So? They take orders from him. The nationalized NG units become his personal henchmen, like the regular army. They are just as bad. Remeber the Nuremburg trials, "following orders" is no excuse for war crimes.

Any sort of large scale crowd control (ala the convention centers) would take massive amounts of planning and coordination, otherwise it could very easily turn into a massive riot causing more death, more damage, and leaving the situation worse of. Not to mention some dumbasses are shooting at various rescue vehicles.

What he said. ;)

If you would quote my full Post...you may notice that Its not just that they were Playing cars...Its that the Guard was not Providing Security at The Superdome or conventin centers...If fact the Guard was invisible the first days...

Playying cards? taking Braks? Sleeping?...I dont care what they were doing...

I care about what they were NOT doing...and thats "showing up".

Maybe I should quote my Full post so you can read it the part about the Superdome.
So they were just all supposed to pile into their family cars and drive to New Orleans themselves. Maybe pick up some supplies from Wal-Mart on their way.

The average guardsmen has about this () much control over their deployment. Be it time, location or purpose.

So? They take orders from him. The nationalized NG units become his personal henchmen, like the regular army. They are just as bad. Remeber the Nuremburg trials, "following orders" is no excuse for war crimes.
You are a total................. Nevermind :headbang:

And that the NG is not Bush, and we are not controlled by him, except in a vague sense.The Iraq troops are not Bush either...

the Guard in NO takes orders from the DHS...

If Bush appointed a total retard be in Charge of the NO rescue ...then Bush is responsible for the Misery.

I beleive in full accountability.

So? They take orders from him. The nationalized NG units become his personal henchmen, like the regular army. They are just as bad. Remeber the Nuremburg trials, "following orders" is no excuse for war crimes.

A. We are not commiting war crimes, or crimes of any sort.

B. We dont follow orders from bush. I've never been ordered to do anything for him, and nobody who has. Our orders come through the chain of command. I dont think I've ever been given a command by anyone higher than a seargant.

C. Following orders is an excuse for doing or not doing things. We have the ability to not follow unlawful orders. Other than that, we have no choice, but to desert. And I, nor anyone I know, has ever been given an unlawful order.

I dont see you doing anything for katrina survivors. So who are you to say shit?

The Iraq troops are not Bush either...

the Guard in NO takes orders from the DHS...

If Bush appointed a total retard be in Charge of the NO rescue ...then Bush is responsible for the Misery.

I beleive in full accountability.

We have to follow all lawful orders. Don't blame troops for their lawful orders. If you object to one of the laws, write your congressman.

A. We are not commiting war crimes, or crimes of any sort.

B. We dont follow orders from bush. I've never been ordered to do anything for him, and nobody who has. Our orders come through the chain of command. I dont think I've ever been given a command by anyone higher than a seargant.

C. Following orders is an excuse for doing or not doing things. We have the ability to not follow unlawful orders. Other than that, we have no choice, but to desert. And I, nor anyone I know, has ever been given an unlawful order.

I dont see you doing anything for katrina survivors. So who are you to say shit?

I have better things to do than waste my time and money on those people in New Orleans.

A. We are not commiting war crimes, or crimes of any sort.
...
I dont see you doing anything for katrina survivors. So who are you to say shit?

True. I don't think you can compare Katrina to the Holocaust in any way.

And VERY true. If you think you can do better, go fly to New Orleans yourself and do it.

Of course as has been stated before the guardsmen have to be given the order to do so.
They can't just plop them down in the city, say "Go help" and expect any sort of massive, organized, positive results.
So they get deployed, and may have to sit and wait while the brass figures out how they want them to handle the situation.FEMA is the Brass.

So? They take orders from him. The nationalized NG units become his personal henchmen, like the regular army. They are just as bad. Remeber the Nuremburg trials, "following orders" is no excuse for war crimes.
Yes...the NG take personal orders from Herr Bush and Chancellor Cheney.
And all are some jack-boot opressiong force out to suppress the, I dunno, Gulf of Mexico. (Fucking water, always stealing the good jobs from us hard working humans.)

Maybe it's just me, but I'm failing to see the connection between violating the law (one is legally required to disobey an illegal order, hence why the "following orders" excuse is invalid.) and the current situation in New Orleans. Perhaps if the President were to order wholesale genocide in Louisiana...but for some odd reason, I just don't see that happening.

Ah good old Godwin's Law

Yes...the NG take personal orders from Herr Bush and Chancellor Cheney.
And all are some jack-boot opressiong force out to suppress the, I dunno, gulf.

Maybe it's just me, but I'm failing to see the connection between violating the law (one is legally required to disobey an illegal order, hence why the "following orders" excuse is invalid.) and the current situation in New Orleans. Perhaps if the President were to order wholesale genocide in Louisiana...but for some odd reason, I just don't see that happening.

Ah good old Godwin's Law

No, somehow I don't think that even George W Bush would order genocide...

We have to follow all lawful orders. Don't blame troops for their lawful orders. If you object to one of the laws, write your congressman.I am not blaming the Troops.

I am blaming the retard in Charge of FEMA...and the Chimp that appointed him to that Life saving Job.

So? They take orders from him. The nationalized NG units become his personal henchmen, like the regular army. They are just as bad. Remeber the Nuremburg trials, "following orders" is no excuse for war crimes.
What are you? About 10 years old? For your sake, I surely hope so. Any older than that and your grip on reality would be in serious doubt.

No, somehow I don't think that even George W Bush would order genocide...


You just watch...Within 2 years, there will be genocide within the United States. Ordered by the President.

You just watch...Within 2 years, there will be genocide within the United States. Ordered by the President.

Oh yes, I'm sure.

I have better things to do than waste my time and money on those people in New Orleans.

Like spend your time bitching at those who spend their time and money on it?

I have better things to do than waste my time and money on those people in New Orleans.
So you complain that Bush is an evil soulless bastard that pinches pennies for upcoming "wars" and then turn around and say that the people in New Orleans aren't worth a pittance to you because you're too busy denouncing Bush on an internet forum.

Will the wonders of the world ne'er cease.

I have better things to do than waste my time and money on those people in New Orleans.

I wasn't aware that helping people in need was a "waste". If YOU were in New Orleans right now, I bet you would expect some help. Think of it that way.

...
On Friday, New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin denounced the slow federal response as too little, too late, charging that promised troops had not arrived in time.

"Now get off your asses and let's do something and fix the biggest goddamn crisis in the history of this country," the mayor said in remarks aired on CNN.

Blum said that since Thursday some 7,000 National Guard and military police had moved into the city.
President George W. Bush on Saturday ordered an additional 7,000 active duty and reserve ground troops.

Blum said any suggestion that the National Guard had not performed well or was late was a "low blow".
...

"Now get off your asses and let's do something and fix the biggest goddamn crisis in the history of this country," the mayor said in remarks aired on CNN.


Well, wasn't the mayor of NO sitting on his ass talking to them? So he's really not helping much either.

On a related note, anyone know where I could get a list of charities for NO?

Riley said that for the first three days after Monday's storm, which is believed to have killed several thousand people, the police and fire departments and some volunteers had been alone in trying to rescue people.

"We expected a lot more support from the federal government. We expected the government to respond within 24 hours. The first three days we had no assistance," he told AFP in an interview.

Riley went on: "We have been fired on with automatic weapons. We still have some thugs around. My biggest disappointment is with the federal government and the National Guard.

"The guard arrived 48 hours after the hurricane with 40 trucks. They drove their trucks in and went to sleep.

"For 72 hours this police department and the fire department and handful of citizens were alone rescuing people. We have people who died while the National Guard sat and played cards.

First off, thanks for this thread. As one who is homeless because of the hurricane and the GROSSLY INADEQUATE FEDERAL RESPONSE, I am especially appreciative of your starting this thread, OceanDrive2.

I will say that Commander Warren Riley (that's what the "W" stands for in his name) may have let off on the wrong guys. However, his response, and more importantly, the feeling it has here in the New Orleans diaspora (I cannot believe I had to say this) underscores the virtual abandonment of my hometown of 27 years by the powers that be, be they state or federal.

It needs to be noted that just in the past year alone, the Bush administration cut 71 million dollars from previously-authorized hurricane protection projects to protect New Orleans. That money, like so much else in the USA, has gone to the blackhole of a war whose original purpose has long evaporated in Iraq.

It also needs to be noted that over half of Louisiana's, Mississippi's, and Alabama's national guard units are in Iraq now. Those guys who drove in those trucks likely drove them in from another state -- for even more of the Louisiana's guard material is located in the sands of Iraq, not plying the floodwaters of New Orleans.

To be sure as one poster noted here in this thread, New Orleans Police aren't exactly the greatest models for confidence. Yet I happen to know Warren Riley as an acquaintance -- he is nothing but a no nonsense and straight forward person, with the best intentions for New Orleans. For the most part, what he said is apparently correct, if a bit understated (for the police themselves have been also "looting" --the very word is inappropriate given what little preparation had happened before the hurricane-- in order to just survive long enough before the outside world/our federal government took notice).

And it is true that there were both local, state, and federal (in)actions prior to the hurricane that could've prevented this awlful calamity. Scores of municipal buses and streetcars lay underwater -- emergency managers could've filled them with thousands of people without private vehicles and fled the city(more than 100,000 in the city alone did not own cars; myself I was damn lucky to get mine out of the repair shop two days before the storm hit so I could successfully flee). The Louisiana Superdome should've been stocked to the gills with provisions and staffed to handle the 20,000 inside. Remember this is a sports arena that regularly saw crouds of 80,000. Yet especially the state and federal government dropped the ball bigtime on this preparation.

Then of course Mayor Nagin in my opinion called for the evacuation too late -- 10am Sunday morning less than 24 hours before landfall was much too short a time. The suburbs and nearby outlying regions evacuated almost a full day before the city did. Yet it does need to be noted that until Saturday morning just two days before the hurricane it was forecast to hit the Gulf coast of Florida. Literally overnight, the storm track moved nearly 200 miles westward -- and that "cone of error" made New Orleans its new and final center. Mayor Nagin really cannot be held to account for such a misjudgement alone.

Then there's that matter of the 17th Street Canal levee breech. Locals have long known that at that drainage canal's mouth a city street bridge was being "hurricane proofed" and widened. Attached to the southside of that bridge was a construction barge. It is quite likely that barge broke loose during the height of the hurricane and broke the levee in the canal. To be sure, there is a furious debate going on now (as the area still remains under ten feet of water so the culprit barge has yet to be located). But even after the storm, it took the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers more than three days to even begin trying to plug the breech. Meanwhile whole areas of the city, including the Central Business District, Charity Hospital and parts of Uptown, which were dry in the days after the storm, became flooded just a few days ago.

When questioned about this by reporters with the Baton Rouge television station WAFB-TV 9, the Corps said that they lacked the heavy-lift helicopters necessary to immediately focus on filling the breech After a furious outcry by me and other evacuated New Orleanians taking refuge in Baton Rouge, they have finally plugged the canal's mouth so as to allow no longer the waters of Lake Pontchartrain into the city (and at its height those floodwaters inside the city equaled the level on the lake itself).

Then there's the breech of the Industrial Canal levee that flooded the Lower Ninth Ward of New Orleans and the suburban parish of St.Bernard with up to twenty feet of water. Storm surge from the Mississippi River Gulf Outlet (MrGO) entered the canal as Hurricane Katrina headed for the region. It had no where else to go. At this point, I am furiously following up on reports that during the height of the storm the downriver levee of the Industrial Canal was dynamited in order to send floodwaters potentially away from the richer parts of New Orleans towards the nearly all African-American Lower Ninth Ward neighborhood as well as the mostly white but working-class St.Bernard Parish.

To be sure, we of the environmental community of New Orleans have long called for the closure and fill-in of the MrGO to staunch the flow of storm surge and reclaim once-vibrant wetlands that were destroyed by its early-1960s construction. Almost the very same thing happened during Hurricane Betsy in 1965 -- New Orleans' last direct hit by a major hurricane.

There's more to tell. Of course unfortunately I have so little time. Apologies for my lengthly post. Unfortunately, I have been to busy trying to located loved ones who I know fled and those I know who didn't -- as well as many friends and family that I pray and hope will not end up on a death list that surely will top "9/11" and may even rival the southeast Asia tsumani.

Those with the means to do so please make donations to the American Red Cross (the only outside agency that has been with us the entirety of this disaster):
http://www.redcross.org

Thanks for starting this thread and for your clamor to help the birthplace of jazz as well as my home.

Nolaerie
Pacific Defenders

On a related note, anyone know where I could get a list of charities for NO?

Yup.

http://www.marketwatch.com/news/archivedStory.asp?archive=true&dist=ArchiveSplash&siteid=google&guid=%7BDFAC4D5A%2D4DAE%2D45B1%2DA0FF%2D510C17F41F1A%7D&returnURL=%2Fnews%2Fstory%2Easp%3Fguid%3D%7BDFAC4D5A%2D4DAE%2D45B1%2DA0FF%2D510C17F41F1A%7D%26siteid %3Dgoogle%26dist%3D%26archive%3Dtrue%26param%3Darchive%26garden%3D%26minisite%3D

Thanks for starting this thread and for your clamor to help the birthplace of jazz as well as my home.You are welcome...

may God protect your familly and Friends.
may God protect the all the poor people left behind by the State and Federal Govs.

http://www.redcross.org




Just in case the Link got missed by anyone in that lengthy rant. It might be interesting to point out that without the Army Corps of Engineers' efforts, New Orleans would have washed away decades ago, as the Mississippi river is trying (and has been for over a century) to re-route down the atchafalaya basin, some miles west of N'Orleans. One of the main reasons the city needs those Levies is because the river-bottom's been rising there for decades, and the surface is so close to the water table in New Orleans that many graveyards bury people above ground in tombs (This is a major tourist draw.)

Catastrophic flooding is LIKELY in such a situation.

In any case, seventy-one million dollars isn't much protection against a Hurricane when your topography looks like that part of Louisiana. It's kind of like what will happen to Tacoma (another major U.S. City sitting in the path of a predicted catastrophe) if Ranier goes active (which is quite likely, being that the Cascade range are still active volcanoes).

Everyone knows it's going to happen, but everyone gambles that it won't in their own lifetime.

New Orleans lost that gamble.

Your state authorities should have paid attention to the warnings decades ago and had a plan of action in place and ready that did not rely on someone else to shoulder the bulk of the cost.

*snip*

I already taken care of this post so I'll just use snipets.

1. LA guard forces were between 30-35% in Iraq. This leaves 65-70% inside LA. I do not know the numbers of Mississippi or AL but I do know that less than half are in Iraq and Afghanistan.

2. Preparedness is the Responsibility of the State and Local authorities and not the Federal Government.

3. Congress approved the levee cut without raising a voice as to its consequences. They too are to blame for this.

4. I hope Nolaerie finds his/her loved ones and I pray for their safe return.

Hey, go screw yourself.
Did I ask you how hard it sounds? No, I told you to do it.



It's alot harder than it sounds...
What possible pleasure could you gather from me screwing myself?


Both of you need to cool down, now. You're both VERY close to receiving official warnings for flaming/flamebaiting/hijacking this thread. Anything else between you two, and you both will receive warnings.

Of course he'd be frustrated. The small contingent there probably thought that their only job was to secure the Superdome, and the police would handle the rest. Needless to say, it was the worst looting I could ever recall. And believe me, I've lived through other times of looting.

Just in case the Link got missed by anyone in that lengthy rant.The man just lost his home..and you tag him with "lengthy rant" ???