NationStates Jolt Archive

There is a big debate in the technology world over what type of computer is the best. Some say Mac is better because the programmers spend more time making everything perfect. Others argue that the simplicity of Windows allows for new develops to come quickly.

What is your view?

What do you mean, the "Simplicity" of Windows? There is nothing simple about it! It is riddled with millions more lines of code than Mac OS X.

Macs are superior if all you do is use word processing or picture editing or other such things because of the fact that Macs have few viruses compared to Windows and you can get everything you need finished in a clean environment.

If you want a gaming rig, there is no choice but a Windows machine because games are made for PCs first, not Macs.

I use a Windows machine personally because I'm a gamer.

Ha! I win! No one else posted to defend that other guy's view of Windows is better, so I WIN! HA HA HA

It's going to turn out similar to the VHS vs Betamax fight in the late 70s to early 80s.

OMG noooooo! Not this argument again!!

*runs away screaming hysterically*
:headbang: :headbang: :headbang:

What do you mean, the "Simplicity" of Windows? There is nothing simple about it! It is riddled with millions more lines of code than Mac OS X.

Well, I would argue that Windows is "simple" because it's not as well thought out and organized as Mac has become. But, the fact that Windows is less complex than a Mac allows for games to be developed quicker.

Oops, I was too late, I guess. But still, I win because I said so:

So we have 2 x squared plus 3 x to the negative third power, alllllllll over delta x.

I loves my Mac!

It's simple, it never crashes, it's very reliable, and runs smoooooooth... :D

Well each system has their own advantages.
Mac's have the advantage of extremly good graphics and word processor programs as well as very few viruses.
Windows has games galor, everything is realsed for it, and it's easy to find parts and such for.

Personaly I use windows since I'm a gamer but when I do get into graphic design I'll be using a Mac.

Oops, I was too late, I guess. But still, I win because I said so:

So we have 2 x squared plus 3 x to the negative third power, alllllllll over delta x.


Shouldn't there be a delta x somewhere on the top?

Linux Forever!

Just kidding. I run Windows because it's easier that way, plus I am a gamer at heart.

OMG noooooo! Not this argument again!!

And it's thanks to me that this topic is here!

Shouldn't there be a delta x somewhere on the top?
No, it, ummmm..... cancelled out.

Everyone knows that the square root of 2 squared is 4!

Oh, and Windows users can right-click.

No, it, ummmm..... cancelled out.

Everyone knows that the square root of 2 squared is 4!

How did it cancel out? What was f(x)?

No, it, ummmm..... cancelled out.

Everyone knows that the square root of 2 squared is 4!

Mac is better because it comes with a built-in graphing calculator! And it has AppleScript Studio!

And because I said so!

What do you mean, the "Simplicity" of Windows? There is nothing simple about it! It is riddled with millions more lines of code than Mac OS X.
Oh really ... the integrated kernal cut down a lot of code after 2k ... how many lines are in each OS as compared to lets say FreeBSD (a BSD offshoot that OSX stole code from )

Oh, and Windows users can right-click.

I believe Mac is comming out with right-clickAGE... or so i've heard

Instanz would know...

Oh, and Windows users can right-click.
You can use standard PC mice with MAC OS 10.x as well
I believe they also make two button mac mice too

I believe Mac is comming out with right-clickAGE... or so i've heard

Instanz would know...
They have since pre 10 days, you just cant use the stock mouse

How did it cancel out? What was f(x)?
I don't know. But now you can plug in 0 for delta x and find out the derivative! And using that information, you can prove mathematically Apple's superiority over Microsoft!

Say, can I post pictures in this forum?

I don't know. But now you can plug in 0 for delta x and find out the derivative! And using that information, you can prove mathematically Apple's superiority over Microsoft!

Say, can I post pictures in this forum?

WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT!? The derivative will be undefined! And that's not fun!

Yeah, I know that Macs are starting to use right mouse buttons. Especially when I saw Apple's giant Mighty Mouse ad when I went to download iTunes onto my laptop.

But we've had it longer. :p

You can use standard PC mice with MAC OS 10.x as well
I believe they also make two button mac mice too
It's the Mighty Mouse! Once again, Apple has introduced an innovation in computing technology. Soon, all mice will have sensors and 2-dimensional scroll wheels!

Windows.

Yeah, I know that Macs are starting to use right mouse buttons. Especially when I saw Apple's giant Mighty Mouse ad when I went to download iTunes onto my laptop.

But we've had it longer. :p

iTunes is definately the best thing you could have on your computer to organize music. Apple did a good job with that program.

WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT!? The derivative will be undefined! And that's not fun!
Yes. Undefined because f(x) wasn't defined to begin with! So it all makes sense.

I will attempt to insert an image.

http://stuffthis.com/Images/1998%20Archive/031698.GIF

iTunes is definately the best thing you could have on your computer to organize music. Apple did a good job with that program.

Damn straight it is. I used Winamp for years until iTunes came out, and I haven't looked back. I have an iPod too.

Slowly, Apple is winning me over. But they won't fully win me over until I can play games on them without waiting years for them to be ported by a third party company.

Slowly, Apple is winning me over. But they won't fully win me over until I can play games on them without waiting years for them to be ported by a third party company.
I lot of games are made for the Mac first.

It's the Mighty Mouse! Once again, Apple has introduced an innovation in computing technology. Soon, all mice will have sensors and 2-dimensional scroll wheels!
Sorry xerox introduced the mouse pointing device MAC stold it

I lot of games are made for the Mac first.

Like Zorg, Breakout.. Super Breakout...

.. Photoshop...

Shameless reference to this (http://www.roosterteeth.com/archive/download.php?id=499)

In the eda industry, you don't see very many macs. They pretty much eliminated them after the great fall.

We have one server we are testing out. It's ok but there is nothing that says buy me! Our only interest was the fact that apple mentioned one price and then quoted another.

We may pick it up.

In our industry the Mac is caught between a rock and a hard place. The customers won't ask for software unless it exists. The vendors won't write the software unless the customers ask for it.

So says an ex-mac administrator(250 machines that I converted to the dark side).

Please. Windows > Mac, especially for gamers such as myself.

No, it, ummmm..... cancelled out.

Everyone knows that the square root of 2 squared is 4!

Not a single person even caught this?

Please. Windows > Mac, especially for gamers such as myself.
Why? we are seeing a massive upserge in wine like emulators on *nix ... I can already play Call of duty
World of warcraft
Battlefield2
and guild wars


On my ubuntu system

Not a single person even caught this?

Maybe not a single person cared. :p

In the eda industry, you don't see very many macs. They pretty much eliminated them after the great fall.

We have one server we are testing out. It's ok but there is nothing that says buy me! Our only interest was the fact that apple mentioned one price and then quoted another.

We may pick it up.

In our industry the Mac is caught between a rock and a hard place. The customers won't ask for software unless it exists. The vendors won't write the software unless the customers ask for it.

So says an ex-mac administrator(250 machines that I converted to the dark side).
Yeah xserves could be powerfull if they spent their time changing some stuff around

Maybe when they convert to the darkside themselfs WAHOO intell here MAC comes lol

Maybe not a single person cared. :p

I call bullshit. NationStates members are not the type to pass up an opportunity to make a person feel like a dipshit. :D

Why? we are seeing a massive upserge in wine like emulators on *nix ... I can already play Call of duty
World of warcraft
Battlefield2
and guild wars


On my ubuntu system

Good job with the emulators. Swing by this (http://www.mac-sucks.com/index.php) website for the answers you're seeking. Oh, and don't forget to watch (http://geekswithblogs.net/jolson/archive/2004/10/28/13854.aspx) the video. Hell, I'll even throw you another (http://www.digitalvideoediting.com/Htm/Articles/chazzletter6.htm) website. Damn, I can't seem to stop (http://files.redvsblue.com/switch/RvB_Switch.mov).

I call bullshit. NationStates members are not the type to pass up an opportunity to make a person feel like a dipshit. :D

I call bullshit on the bullshit. No one had corrected the error until you came along.

I call bullshit on the bullshit. No one had corrected the error until you came along.

Your call of bullshit on my call of bullshit is not valid, because, under the assumption that I made, the lack of correction wasn't due to the posters' collective goodness, but rather the posters' ignorance.

Your call of bullshit on my call of bullshit is not valid, because, under the assumption that I made, the lack of correction wasn't due to the posters' collective goodness, but rather the posters' ignorance.
That or us just not giving a fuck and attempting to stay on topic instead of letting such a petty hijack get to us :p :fluffle:

Your call of bullshit on my call of bullshit is not valid, because, under the assumption that I made, the lack of correction wasn't due to the posters' collective goodness, but rather the posters' ignorance.

Your call of bullshit on my bullshit of your bullshit is invalid, because, under the assumption that I made, the lack of correction wasn't due to the poster's ignorance, but the poster's apathy.

Hahaha, keyword: assumption. You can't prove me wrong and I can't prove you wrong. Live it, learn it, love it. :fluffle:

P.S. Look at the above post, zing! 1-0

P.P.S. Look at the post after this. 2-0

Not a single person even caught this?

Wellllll. I was trying to be nice. ;)

Your call of bullshit on my bullshit of your bullshit is invalid, because, under the assumption that I made, the lack of correction wasn't due to the poster's ignorance, but the poster's apathy.

Hahaha, keyword: assumption. You can't prove me wrong and I can't prove you wrong. Live it, learn it, love it. :fluffle:

P.S. Look at the above post, zing! 1-0

But your assumption was built on both my assumption being incorrect and your assumption being correct whereas my assumption was built solely on its own correctness, thus I am assuming half as much, thus your assumption is twice as unlikely, thus I have successfully found a way to keep this petty argument going. :D

But your assumption was built on both my assumption being incorrect and your assumption being correct whereas my assumption was built solely on its own correctness, thus I am assuming half as much, thus your assumption is twice as unlikely, thus I have successfully found a way to keep this petty argument going. :D

The fact of the matter still stands. Assumptions can't be relied upon for conclusive evidence. Therefore the amount of assumptions has no meaning as long as the original post was based off an assumption. Not only that, but you are assuming your assumption is correct, which simply can't be proven.

Mac OS X is really a nice developing platform. Compatible to most linux software thanks to fink, and writing Cocoa apps in Objective-C is more fun than MFC/C++ hell.

The Apple Mac is the best computer ever (So far) manufactured.
Tiger rules ! (no, not the animal, the software).

Due to the utter and complete craptacularity of Macs, I have to say windows.

problems with Mac:
- Un supported by many programs
- un sup[orted by much hardware
- crappy interface
- gotta go by special mac programs
- processors are crap
- can't upgrade hardware. You get a 1 GHZ processor, and wanna upgrade you gotta buy a whole new computer...

Problems with Windows:
- Made by M$
- crashes constantly
- viruses etc

The mac problems far outweigh the problems of Windows

Linux on the other hand: (using knoppix)
- Crashes constantly
- crappy networking
- not supported by prgrams...


So i ahve to say windows overall

There is a big debate in the technology world over what type of computer is the best. Some say Mac is better because the programmers spend more time making everything perfect. Others argue that the simplicity of Windows allows for new develops to come quickly.

What is your view?

i want to make one thing clear: of course macs are more stable... apple (design and) make all the hardware used in their machines, and then write the OS for it. no wonder why its stable :rolleyes:
Windows has to cope with god knows how many billions of combinations of hardware in millions of computers it runs on round the world... and with that in mind, frankly Windows does incredibly well. i'd like to see OSx try to cope with that...

and thats the thing - macs are simpler because you just buy a 'mac'. with PC's you get a choice... a choice as to what you want in your computer, not to mention how it looks (i'm growing tired of the mac's well designed but overly clinical 'white n rounded' look)

this is why macs are seen as the 'soft', 'easy' or even 'computer illiterate' option because of this over-simplicity.
don't get me wrong, if you want to have no say in the internal or external design of your computer then thats great - go for a mac, just bear in mind you sacrifice customisability for ease of use.


that said, i find Win XP to be incredibly stable - i've been running it for years and i've had very, very few problems. in fact the only problem i've had was a hardware one when my shitty Maxtor HD failed on me :mad:


a friend of mine recently converted to macs and he's very happy with them, but he doesn't do anything on his computer (mac or old PC) other than surf the net and listen to music... which he could have done far cheaper on a cheap PC - which i could have built for him nice and cheap-like. he's not the most tech-savvy person in the world for a start, and secondly he had only been running an old, buggy version of Win 98 for the last however-many years... if only he'd upgraded to XP he might not have turned to the dark side ;)


to summarise: if you want to use a mac, go ahead. if you use one for image reasons or the fanciful design i'll call you a pretentious asshole, but other than that its your choice (not speaking to anyone in particular here btw)
anything a mac can do the PC can do better (and usually cheaper and with more options, too :D)

I'm going to regret getting dragged into this, but...

problems with Mac:
- Un supported by many programs

Not as many as you'd think. Have a look.

- un sup[orted by much hardware

Again, not really. I can go into a shop and buy any mouse, keyboard, printer, HD... and as long as the connectors are the same (USB and the like) the odds are it'll work in a Mac.

- crappy interface

Personal choice. I feel that Windows has a horrible, HORRIBLE GUI, but like I said, it's personal preference

- gotta go by special mac programs

Some software comes as a hybrid. And you can always buy an emulator.

- processors are crap

The CPUs are better or on par with PC chips. Especially for the fact that they're far more inefficient, leading to the fact that an Apple laptop might actually last on the battery for more than 10 minutes...

- can't upgrade hardware. You get a 1 GHZ processor, and wanna upgrade you gotta buy a whole new computer...

You can upgrade hardware; it's just expensive.


Anyway, no doubt I'm just going to get yelled at.

I'm going to regret getting dragged into this, but...



Not as many as you'd think. Have a look.



Again, not really. I can go into a shop and buy any mouse, keyboard, printer, HD... and as long as the connectors are the same (USB and the like) the odds are it'll work in a Mac.



Personal choice. I feel that Windows has a horrible, HORRIBLE GUI, but like I said, it's personal preference



Some software comes as a hybrid. And you can always buy an emulator.



The CPUs are better or on par with PC chips. Especially for the fact that they're far more inefficient, leading to the fact that an Apple laptop might actually last on the battery for more than 10 minutes...



You can upgrade hardware; it's just expensive.


Anyway, no doubt I'm just going to get yelled at.
Not from me... too much work I have to do to have a decent flame war tonight...

as you said personal preferance, but Mac seems like too much wor, effort and money for somthing which will do just the same as Windows in the end...

Linux on the other hand: (using knoppix)
- Crashes constantly
- crappy networking
- not supported by prgrams...


So i ahve to say windows overall

I've used SuSE Linux for years and have only had a handful of crashes the entire time, most of which I caused with my incessant fiddling. I've found networking to be easy enough as well, though getting a Linux box to talk to a Windows box takes a little work with Samba, it's not that difficult, and it's simple to get Linux boxes to networked with each other. Heterogenous networking is always going to be more difficult than homogenous networking, especially with Windows systems, because Microsoft is loathe to give any help. I honestly don't know where you get the "not supported by programs" thing. It's supported a massive number of programs, what with there being a huge number of programs designed for Linux. Obviously programs designed for other OS's don't support it, but it supports many of them through emulators.

Perhaps you should try another distro over Knoppix? Knoppix is great, but it is, first and foremost, a 'Live' distro.

More on-topic, with the Mac/Windows choice, I would take OS X, since it's basically BSD from the ground up. Nice pretty GUI, though. I find it superior to Windows. Less buggy, less annoying, more secure. However, for hardware, I would have to take PC, since upgrading a Mac can be a real pain. Though apparently the new wave of Macs will be using Intel processors, and no longer PowerPC. Good choice, I think. May well end up being the catalyst for a new Mac revolution.

Edit: That said, I still have a dual-boot PC with SuSE and WinXP. I just love my games too much. It's sad that just about every game (not counting Breakout, etc.) is Windows only (with some notable exceptions). Monopolies suck.

Not from me... too much work I have to do to have a decent flame war tonight...

as you said personal preferance, but Mac seems like too much wor, effort and money for somthing which will do just the same as Windows in the end...

It really is just a matter of opinions. More importantly, I doubt anyone is going to be swayed one jot by what we say. I personally feel that Windows is the OS that demands too much work, effort and money just to make the damn thing work; and even then, it feels like a pain, trying to stop me doing what I want to do every single step of the way, before finally coming up with some nutsy error and wiping everything I was doing. But hey, that's just my experiences from the past 6 years.

This old cheshnut. I would have wlked on by, except for this:

Due to the utter and complete craptacularity of Macs, I have to say windows.

problems with Mac:
- Un supported by many programs
- un sup[orted by much hardware
- crappy interface
- gotta go by special mac programs
- processors are crap
- can't upgrade hardware. You get a 1 GHZ processor, and wanna upgrade you gotta buy a whole new computer...

Problems with Windows:
- Made by M$
- crashes constantly
- viruses etc

The mac problems far outweigh the problems of Windows

This typifies the arguement against Mac's, and also shows why they are wrong. The points about supported software/hardware are indeed valid but *only* if compared to Windows. There is loads of hardware and software supported that will do everything you need. Interfaces, as already mentioned, are subjective and as such irrelevent (that goes the other way, no use Mac heads going about how great they are to use - they are used to them). Processors/CPU is a poor arguement that usually shows poor knowledgeable about the technology: until recently, MHz for MHz the PowerPC was far better than the Intel, and the PowerPC didnt *need* all those extra clock cycles. Its fair to say this has changed now and hence Apple abandoning the PowerPC, but for too long Intel/Windows fanboys have flogged this marketing horse. As for upgrading, if you want to upgrade your Intel or AMD these days, you'll need a new motherboard and memory... more power needed so new PSU... might as well get a new HDD while your at it... hang on.

So at the end of the day a Mac does a job and does it well. Very well if your into publishing and graphics. Its a tool, a very well crafted tool that makes its user very productive.

How about those Windows problems then? Well i dont care who makes something. Thats like people who dont buy Fiat/Skoda/Ford just becuase they used to be a bit crap. However the other 2 problems are pretty significant and really do for Windows. They consume vast amounts of time for both the user and the admin, and swallow vast sums of cash in the IT budget to invest in auxiliary software. Windows is also a tool one that can do a few more things than the Apple tool, but its made from mediocre materials and needs constant sharpening to keep it sharp. So for all the benifits its versitility brings, its ultimatly les productive.


For the record i work with Macs, Windows, Solaris, Linux and by far the best computer is.... the Amiga :D

just going to say i prefer windows, because i program on top of it and love the easy coding techniques, i am in process of making a fully functional web browser and so far it does everything that IE does but it does it quicker and it is only 6kb is size...

Question for Mac users!

You think the MacIntels will help your cause for more games to the Mac platform? Most games are released for PS/2, XBOX, Windows and sometimes Linux, then Mac.

Windows is the best, but has one problem: its made by Micro$oft.

Due to the utter and complete craptacularity of Macs, I have to say windows.

problems with Mac:
- Un supported by many programs
- un sup[orted by much hardware
- crappy interface
- gotta go by special mac programs
- processors are crap
- can't upgrade hardware. You get a 1 GHZ processor, and wanna upgrade you gotta buy a whole new computer...

Problems with Windows:
- Made by M$
- crashes constantly
- viruses etc

The mac problems far outweigh the problems of Windows

Linux on the other hand: (using knoppix)
- Crashes constantly
- crappy networking
- not supported by prgrams...


So i ahve to say windows overall


You sir or ma'am either have to get a new distro or learn how to use the Linux version you have better, it should NOT crash constantly and in general *nix support for networking outweighs windows and MAC by a long shot

(Using Ubuntu, FreeBSD,NetBSD,OpenBSD,Knoppix,Slackware,Fedora,Debian)

For thoes that want a "low" brow comparison MAX did it pretty well on his blog (Linux to windows comparason) http://www.maxbarry.com/2005/02/22/news.html

There is a big debate in the technology world over what type of computer is the best. Some say Mac is better because the programmers spend more time making everything perfect. Others argue that the simplicity of Windows allows for new develops to come quickly.

What is your view?

Mac, like Sun, will always be around as a niche player. (2-5% of the market).
Back in the early 90s, Mac had about 20%.

In my opinion, the real question for the next decade is if Windows or Linux will cohabitate, will Linux balkanize, or will Windows bust.

Mac, like Sun, will always be around as a niche player. (2-5% of the market).
Back in the early 90s, Mac had about 20%.

In my opinion, the real question for the next decade is if Windows or Linux will cohabitate, will Linux balkanize, or will Windows bust.
Good question already we are starting to see very solid players on the corporate market

For awhile mandrake there, but they seemed to have dropped out comparatively.

Redhat (specially corporate) and Ubuntu have seemingly gone out of their way to make a productivity desktop (based in gnome) that is compiled with what you need and installs like a dream.
We might see an upsurge in these in corporate envyrons

Hmm, Windows here.
I used to be able to get on with System 7, despite its horrendous instability and annoying UI, but OS X eluded me the one time I tried to use it. Macs are stupidly expensive, too. And who cares what it looks like?

I just wish they made Linux versions of most Windows games. That'd be the best of all worlds; Free OS, Cheap hardware you can choose yourself, games. What more could you want?

Ho hum, in the meantime Windows 2000 will do me fine.

Oh, but Windows is simple? Anyone who's tried any software development with Win32 will laugh at that...

You sir or ma'am either have to get a new distro or learn how to use the Linux version you have better, it should NOT crash constantly and in general *nix support for networking outweighs windows and MAC by a long shot
Frankly, if he's getting a modern version of Windows to crash "constantly" there is something wrong.

Frankly, if he's getting a modern version of Windows to crash "constantly" there is something wrong.
Agreed ... The machine I am on has not been restarted for a week
Windows xp pro

With 2k and XP the stability of a windows system has deffinatly gone up

Good question already we are starting to see very solid players on the corporate market

For awhile mandrake there, but they seemed to have dropped out comparatively.

Redhat (specially corporate) and Ubuntu have seemingly gone out of their way to make a productivity desktop (based in gnome) that is compiled with what you need and installs like a dream.
We might see an upsurge in these in corporate envyrons

I'm using Solaris, and have used Red Hat, HP-UX and SUSE. Servers is one thing: the guy operating them typically knows what he's doing. Linux will always be #2 until my mom can use it. The question to me is: when will that happen (no, it's not there yet!), and better, which flavor will "win"?

Hmm, Windows here.
I used to be able to get on with System 7, despite its horrendous instability and annoying UI, but OS X eluded me the one time I tried to use it. Macs are stupidly expensive, too. And who cares what it looks like?

I just wish they made Linux versions of most Windows games. That'd be the best of all worlds; Free OS, Cheap hardware you can choose yourself, games. What more could you want?

Ho hum, in the meantime Windows 2000 will do me fine.

Oh, but Windows is simple? Anyone who's tried any software development with Win32 will laugh at that...
Use wine
With a bit of configuration like I said before I got WOW, Battlefield2 Call of duty UO, Guild wars and a few more to run when in ubuntu

Agreed ... The machine I am on has not been restarted for a week
Windows xp pro

With 2k and XP the stability of a windows system has deffinatly gone up

My win xp Dell Inspiron 5100 laptop ran for 94 days without shutdowns or reboots. I've since stopped tracking it. :)

I'm using Solaris, and have used Red Hat, HP-UX and SUSE. Servers is one thing: the guy operating them typically knows what he's doing. Linux will always be #2 until my mom can use it. The question to me is: when will that happen (no, it's not there yet!), and better, which flavor will "win"?
Give fedora a chance … the new core 3 and 4 are almost to the point my mom can use it (to the extent she can use any computer)

They come packaged with things like firefox already installed and linked to the taskbar

Open office is installed and ready to go
Printer support was almost flawless with 3 different inkjet printers

Thinks like gaim(instant messenger) and email application already installed and ready to go off the CD

All in all it was almost idiot proof

My win xp Dell Inspiron 5100 laptop ran for 94 days without shutdowns or reboots. I've since stopped tracking it. :)
Yeah this is my work HP ... last restart was when I had to apply the new security fixes that came out a week or so ago :D

just going to say i prefer windows, because i program on top of it and love the easy coding techniques, i am in process of making a fully functional web browser and so far it does everything that IE does but it does it quicker and it is only 6kb is size...
Hmmm I found coding for other OS's Easier personaly
Specialy the open source ones

Question for Mac users!

You think the MacIntels will help your cause for more games to the Mac platform? Most games are released for PS/2, XBOX, Windows and sometimes Linux, then Mac.

Sorry, what's your point here? The Mac Gaming scene has been growing from a joke back in '98 to the stage where we get a fair whack of games - not every single one that comes out on Windows, but then, most of them are crap anyway. We get the big (mainly good) ones. The hope is that with an Intel chip, the baseline code will be similar for both platforms, thus making the porting of games easier and cheaper, meaning that more games should be ported.

- Made by M$

That's such an old and tired attempt at comedy.

- crashes constantly

I haven't seen a blue screen of death in a couple of years and any crashes I have are caused by the software I've installed, not Windows.

- viruses etc

So get a virus scan program. I scan once a week and you know what? I never have any viruses because I don't go to sites that give me them.

Oh snap.

Persoanlly, i'm a mac man. Especially when you can run windows when you need it anyway on the same PC.

Although i've installed Debian on the Win 98 pc, I can't use it that often. Mother would be very upset if she found i'd installed another OS again...

Persoanlly, i'm a mac man. Especially when you can run windows when you need it anyway on the same PC.

Although i've installed Debian on the Win 98 pc, I can't use it that often. Mother would be very upset if she found i'd installed another OS again...
Virtual PC is a piece of trash lol
Sorry liking MACS are fine but we have to suport VPC here and I have come to the conclusion it blows lol

So get a virus scan program. I scan once a week and you know what? I never have any viruses because I don't go to sites that give me them.

Oh snap.
No garontee ... not that much of a "snap"

Dont believe me look up worm ... they are by far the biggest branch of "viruii" that we have been seeing in the last three years

I loves my Mac!

It's simple, it never crashes, it's very reliable, and runs smoooooooth... :D
100% agree.

At first I was dubious (and fully admit I bought an Apple mainly on the grounds that it looked sexy...!!). But now I think it's great... and it NEVER EVER crashes.... unlike Windows... so I'm very impressed!

100% agree.

At first I was dubious (and fully admit I bought an Apple mainly on the grounds that it looked sexy...!!). But now I think it's great... and it NEVER EVER crashes.... unlike Windows... so I'm very impressed!
One of my home machines has gone 4 years without a crash … windows XP pro

Personally at this point if it does even once I still got a good enough track record to not give a fuck lol at this point it is probably going to be hardware failure

Virtual PC is a piece of trash lol
Sorry liking MACS are fine but we have to suport VPC here and I have come to the conclusion it blows lol

Yeah, it's not wonderful, but it does the job in most cases. And I guess that's what happens when Microsoft buys you out... :rolleyes:

One of my home machines has gone 4 years without a crash … windows XP pro

Personally at this point if it does even once I still got a good enough track record to not give a fuck lol at this point it is probably going to be hardware failure
Without a single random Windows style message like "You made an illegal operation" or "this program has to close" etc (i've always thought Microsoft has a unique command of language)?

That's impressive if not!

Mac user of about 10 years speaking here. They are so much better than windows computers for a number of reasons.
Firstly, we've never bothered about virus protection on account of its Unix based programming, there just arent any harmful viruses out there for mac.
Secondly, they're much more aesthetically pleasing, both whats on the screen, and what the computers look like themselves.
They cater for both the basic internet/email/word processor/music type user, and the specialist film/photograph/music or other professionals. Best of every world.
Though they tend to crash sometimes, it is with far smaller frequency than its PC counterparts.
The only downside to Macs is the price tag, and the fact that software takes longer to come out on them, but thats it.

Mac user of about 10 years speaking here. They are so much better than windows computers for a number of reasons.
Firstly, we've never bothered about virus protection on account of its Unix based programming, there just arent any harmful viruses out there for mac.
Secondly, they're much more aesthetically pleasing, both whats on the screen, and what the computers look like themselves.
They cater for both the basic internet/email/word processor/music type user, and the specialist film/photograph/music or other professionals. Best of every world.
Though they tend to crash sometimes, it is with far smaller frequency than its PC counterparts.
The only downside to Macs is the price tag, and the fact that software takes longer to come out on them, but thats it.
I agree...

Macs crash? I've had a dualG5 for 2 years, and it's never crashed. My iBook for 6 months and it's never gone down.

I shiver when I think about my Windows computer. :(

Our G3 crashed. The G4 has been smooth as ...something smooth.

Without a single random Windows style message like "You made an illegal operation" or "this program has to close" etc (i've always thought Microsoft has a unique command of language)?

That's impressive if not!
Nope only one was an ip addy conflict but that was my fault (hard coding my new server to what that desktop was set as)

Yeah, it's not wonderful, but it does the job in most cases. And I guess that's what happens when Microsoft buys you out... :rolleyes:
It was trash before that lol now it is just different style of trash

lol

Mac user of about 10 years speaking here. They are so much better than windows computers for a number of reasons.
Firstly, we've never bothered about virus protection on account of its Unix based programming, there just arent any harmful viruses out there for mac.

Bullshit tell me what about this "unix" code makes it more secure?
There is a reason they keep re-evaluating FreeBSD because they ALWAYS find holes and support issues

the REASON MAC does not have to worry about as many potential threats is because it is a SMALL TARGET! people want to hit the big boy and make a splash

They could care less about the week little bro

Secondly, they're much more aesthetically pleasing, both whats on the screen, and what the computers look like themselves.
They cater for both the basic internet/email/word processor/music type user, and the specialist film/photograph/music or other professionals. Best of every world.
Though they tend to crash sometimes, it is with far smaller frequency than its PC counterparts.
The only downside to Macs is the price tag, and the fact that software takes longer to come out on them, but thats it.
... and their processor style
And their hardware flexability
And Mac OS's hardware driverset
To name a few

Well, I would argue that Windows is "simple" because it's not as well thought out and organized as Mac has become. But, the fact that Windows is less complex than a Mac allows for games to be developed quicker.
Um, no. Games just get made for PC first because there are so many more of them. It has nothing to do with ease of programming.

Bullshit tell me what about this "unix" code makes it more secure?
There is a reason they keep re-evaluating FreeBSD because they ALWAYS find holes and support issues
Any bug issues in unix come from eventualities they didn't code for. If unix code is truly buggy, it generally won't compile in the first place. Winblows is written in C++. Technically a much more versatile language than unix, because of it's recursive nature there is much much more chance that an error in the code will go unnoticed and come back to bite you in the ass at a later point in time. It will compile even if the code doesn't actually work.

Macs have their flaws and shortcomings, but on the whole, Windows can't hold a candle. I have always been a solid Mac user and will remain so indefinitely.

the REASON MAC does not have to worry about as many potential threats is because it is a SMALL TARGET! people want to hit the big boy and make a splash

The Mac market is large enough that there is a significant number of programs both ported to the OS and created exclusively; so, why not viruses? And yet I don't believe there is a single known virus that affects OS X. There's not even known spyware that targets it.

Um, no. Games just get made for PC first because there are so many more of them. It has nothing to do with ease of programming.

Well, it IS harder to make up an interface with only one mouse button!! ;)

Well, it IS harder to make up an interface with only one mouse button!! ;)
Apple makes up for it by insisting on standardization. Human interface standards make sure that the Apple-S button always saves, the Apple-D always deletes...

MS can't even seem to standardize between it's flagship products. Word and Excel have such different interfaces on Windows, it doesn't seem that they come from the same company. They seem to be a little better on the Mac, but I'm sure it's only because they conform to Apple's human interface standards.

There are some of us that just like to use a computer. We couldn't care how the operating system allows us to tweak this and set that. My computer is a tool. It's the things that I do with it that interest me.

Problems with Windows:
- Made by M$
- crashes constantly
- viruses etc

I will challenge the crash comments. I have over 800 right now. Since the conversion to 2000, 2003, and XP; crashes are a rarety.

The antivirus thing is an issue but if you set up a good defense and response system, they are an annoyance. Never lost a system to an infection yet.



Linux on the other hand: (using knoppix)
- Crashes constantly
- crappy networking
- not supported by prgrams...


Use redhat and suse. Don't crash that often. Networking is only a matter of configuration. Not an issue. Programs? Depends on what you are after.

Apple makes up for it by insisting on standardization. Human interface standards make sure that the Apple-S button always saves, the Apple-D always deletes...

MS can't even seem to standardize between it's flagship products. Word and Excel have such different interfaces on Windows, it doesn't seem that they come from the same company. They seem to be a little better on the Mac, but I'm sure it's only because they conform to Apple's human interface standards.

There are some of us that just like to use a computer. We couldn't care how the operating system allows us to tweak this and set that. My computer is a tool. It's the things that I do with it that interest me.

Have you used Office at all recently? CTRL C always copies, CTRL V always pastes, etc.

Human interface? You're kidding, right? Apple gave people a default HOCKEY PUCK for a mouse.

Exactly. Mac is fine for some folks. That is, about 3-5% of the computer using population. :)

Bullshit tell me what about this "unix" code makes it more secure?
There is a reason they keep re-evaluating FreeBSD because they ALWAYS find holes and support issues

the REASON MAC does not have to worry about as many potential threats is because it is a SMALL TARGET! people want to hit the big boy and make a splash

They could care less about the week little bro

... and their processor style
And their hardware flexability
And Mac OS's hardware driverset
To name a few

Agree.....

The Mac market is large enough that there is a significant number of programs both ported to the OS and created exclusively; so, why not viruses? And yet I don't believe there is a single known virus that affects OS X. There's not even known spyware that targets it.

Nahh mac market is tiny. Microsoft is everywhere and when the news reports about world infestations they are mainly talking about businesses.

As to no infections? Sorry but they do exist.

http://www.sophos.com/virusinfo/articles/renepo.html

As to adward/spyware? Those are browser driven so I really doubt that nonexist......

Nahh mac market is tiny. Microsoft is everywhere and when the news reports about world infestations they are mainly talking about businesses.

As to no infections? Sorry but they do exist.

http://www.sophos.com/virusinfo/articles/renepo.html

As to adward/spyware? Those are browser driven so I really doubt that nonexist......

There's like what. 7 mac viruses?
And zero linux viruses?

Compaired to a jillion windows viruses.

There's like what. 7 mac viruses?
And zero linux viruses?

Compaired to a jillion windows viruses.

The claim made was zero OS X virii.

Sure there are a jillion, there are also significant more windows boxes then mac boxes.

Writers are going to go after what has the farther reach.....

Mac vs. Windows?

Well, I've never used a Mac before (I'm a Micro$ofty), but the only reason I use Windows is both cash and the fact that most commercial games are a Windoze exclusive.

Having said that, I prefer Linux to both, and on my dual-boot upstairs, I use it more often than anything else. Not that I'm any good at Linuxing... I've never touched the kernel outside of preconfigured packages or NVIDIA driver installation, never mind recompiling it. That's probably why I ritually change distros every month or so :p

Linux usually only crashes due to problems with application code.
Windows usually crashes due to problems with its own code. (ME BSOD anyone?)

Expect a Linux virus once every decade.
Expect a Windows virus as soon as you plug the ethernet in.

Alright, I'll shut up evangelizing Linux.

And to answer the question... Windows, but only because I'm forced to. If all of the good non-MS Windows games were ported fully and quickly to Mac, I'd change. I love the OSX eyecandy, too.

The claim made was zero OS X virii.

Sure there are a jillion, there are also significant more windows boxes then mac boxes.

Writers are going to go after what has the farther reach.....
Can I marry you? seriously suprized no one sees this but us

Well, it IS harder to make up an interface with only one mouse button!! ;)
To be fair that is just the default option MAC handles most multi button mouses

Can I marry you? seriously suprized no one sees this but us

If we are going to get married, the question of your spooning position must answered. :p

I used to do internetworking security for the Fed a loooong time ago. I was involved in the early days when they first appeared in mass. The old macs had their share. Unix machines had them as well. Not as much but they had them. Heck I even wrote a couple. ;)

To be fair that is just the default option MAC handles most multi button mouses

Wasn't there just a claim about "Mac standardization"? :D

Wasn't there just a claim about "Mac standardization"? :D
Yeah, but that was about standardization between applications.

I think it's kinda nice that I can buy a bluetooth adapter, plug it in to the USB port and it works. On my WXP computer, I have to coerce a driver to load, then try to configure it, then finally look for the PDA that I want to link to.

Same thing with printers, wireless networks, and just about anything else. They just work.

Yeah, but that was about standardization between applications.

I think it's kinda nice that I can buy a bluetooth adapter, plug it in to the USB port and it works. On my WXP computer, I have to coerce a driver to load, then try to configure it, then finally look for the PDA that I want to link to.

Same thing with printers, wireless networks, and just about anything else. They just work.

I'll second that. I bought my first Mac 6 months ago, always thought little of the OS, the whole Mac cult thing. Frankly, I didn't like the kind of people who used them - the few that I knew - I'm a practical fellow and the Mac users seemed an elite bunch of arteests, real Mac cultists.

I am a hands-on guy, technical matters don't phase me. I didn't buy the Mac because I wanted something easy to use. Plain and simple, I felt the Windows security issues to be significant both now and in the future, and though much of the OS X security is derived from its obscurity, I didn't care. There are no significant security concerns with OS X, the few there are are easily circumvented by proper sanitation.

I will always have a few Windows boxes around, but I prefer the Mac's. Everything just works. That's what I want anymore - something that just works. Just like I want my cars to just start and run. I'm tired of doing mechanic work, whether on computers or cars, though there was a time when I enjoyed that. If you like tinkering, run Linux or Windows. Just want to work or play, buy a Mac. Want your hands under the hood? You can do that with a Mac, too.

Hey, the one-button mouse thing: that's not an argument. Just stick any USB mouse on it and get to work.

Yeah, but that was about standardization between applications.

I think it's kinda nice that I can buy a bluetooth adapter, plug it in to the USB port and it works. On my WXP computer, I have to coerce a driver to load, then try to configure it, then finally look for the PDA that I want to link to.

Same thing with printers, wireless networks, and just about anything else. They just work.

Funny, that. All the USB stuff I plug into this Dell... and I'm rarely asked for drivers. I have an A+G Linksys card, never have any problem with wireless. Never failed loading a printer of any kind.

Coerce? Sure, back in the Win98 days... ;)

Funny, that. All the USB stuff I plug into this Dell... and I'm rarely asked for drivers. I have an A+G Linksys card, never have any problem with wireless. Never failed loading a printer of any kind.

Coerce? Sure, back in the Win98 days... ;)

I'm not entirely sure why I'm posting this, but it might give a few people a laugh...

A few years ago, I got myself a brand-spanking new Mac. To go with this machine (which, primarily, I was going to use for games) I bought myself a 2-button mouse and scroll-wheel. As it turns out, the cheapest one was a Microsoft one.

About a year later, my Dad was given a Compaq laptop for work. Again, a totally new computer. One night he decided that he was fed up using the track-pad, and so decided to plug in my mouse. My Microsoft mouse, into a computer running Microsoft Windows XP.

In went the USB connector. Looking at the screen, it didn't seem to have registered anything. He moved the mouse - nothing. He moved the track-pad - still nothing. The computer had frozen stiff. So, he decided to restart it. Came back up...nothing. Frozen solid again.

I can't remember how long he spent trying to make the bloody thing work, before he unplugged and returned my mouse, and had to re-install Windows from a disk.

But there you go. That's one of the many reasons why I don't like Windows.

Funny, that. All the USB stuff I plug into this Dell... and I'm rarely asked for drivers. I have an A+G Linksys card, never have any problem with wireless. Never failed loading a printer of any kind.

Coerce? Sure, back in the Win98 days... ;)
Maybe I just pick the wrong things to stick in the USB port. The bluetooth adapter didn't work without a driver. My flash drive works, although it keeps asking for a driver everytime I plug it in. My USB to RS232 adapter didn't work until I loaded the driver...It just goes on and on. Even the Logitec USB mouse won't work properly when plugged into my KVM switch.

The Mac is vastly superior to the PC.

I'll give you an example. On a PC running Internet Exploder, if you write a long post on these fora and you wait past an allotted time and you are autologged out in the process, unless you have saved that post somewhere, it's lost forever.

On my Mac running Safari, I've had three posts that have been autologged off, one of them because I forgot it was there. Hitting the back button restores the FULL TEXT of the message I typed, so after I log back in, I can simply click to post my message that I worked so long and so hard on.

Installing software is a snap on the Mac, not so on the PC. Macs are less likely to get slammed with viruses than a PC (although a bit of vigilance can prevent both from getting slammed). The Mac remains supreme in the realm of desktop publishing. Some of the PC's best features of today were already implemented by the Mac, often YEARS ago.

All have their advantages and disadvantages, strengths and weaknesses, and fanatics who will preach their perfection.

Windows XP is the middle-ground. It will take nearly any software package you can throw at it simply because it's the developers' OS of choice. It's fairly reliable, fairly easy-to-use, it's fairly versatile and it generally has support from MS (I've had no problems with MS support, anyway) and from third-party software manufacturers. It's greatest strength is gaming, of course -- all commercial computer games (obviously not including console games on that one) are made with Windows primarily in mind. There's no point excluding the majority of your market, after all. It's greatest weakness is its vulnerability to spyware and viruses, despite Microsoft's best efforts to patch it.

Mac OS is a more user-friendly OS. Its interface is clean and easy-to-use, and you won't ever have to do anything complicated if you don't want to. The computers they come installed on typically look good as well, if a little on the 'trendy' side these days. Macs will work fine on your every-day activities such as surfing the web and word processing, and they excell at such things as file management and image editing. And of course, because it is not a target of virus-makers or spyware spammers, your Mac will be largely secure. Gaming is not-so-good, however, as even if you can find a game that works on it, a top-spec Mac simply won't perform as well as a top-spec PC. This could change if Apple would make a more universal OS, but that likely won't happen in the immediate future. And their great user-friendly GUI sacrifices some of its versatility. Support is generally good with Macs, though Macs in general can tend to be a little on the expensive side. They're like the BMWs of the computer world -- you pay through your nose for prestige, then notice that they're actually more common than you thought.

Linux is a technowizard's dream. It will do nearly anything you can think of, is completely customisable and highly reliable. It will even run a lot of commercial software, though some of it does have issues. Although the actual effectiveness of their in-built security features has been brought into question once or twice in the past, due to their relative obscurity they are secure simply because there aren't enough of them to bother writing a virus for. Even if all you do is word processing and online surfing it'll do the job. Although depending on your distribution, they aren't the easiest things in the world to install and set-up, and if you want to use its extensive versatility you will have to educate yourself a little in its inner-workings. Some vendors will give you some support with the Linux side of things, but if you want support from third party software manufacturers (or even your ISP) you can stop dreaming. It is 'not' the most user-friendly operating system around. Community support is good, but only if you know where to go to find it. If Linux could make itself more of a recognised OS so that third-party software developers started to support it, and if it could make itself more user-friendly without sacrificing its versatility, it could be a more competitive system.

I know nothing of code - LINUX drops the 2 in the toilet,
for the moral superiority of open source.


No, seriously, I really do know NOthing of code,
as strictly a user,


I'd go with Mac




It hardly never crashed and only froze up when I was downloading
some big file. But that might have been something else.
plus, no one writes virus' for apple.
could it be microsuxx.com are such sleaz-buckets?

could it be microsuxx.com are such sleaz-buckets?

Although I do agree that Microsoft is the only company out there looking to make profits at your expense, and that you should definitely trust Apple, that isn't the reason. It's simply because there are infinitely more Windows systems out there than Mac systems. When you're spending time writing computer viruses, you aim for the OS that 90% of computers use, not the one that 8/9% use -- maximum damage.

Obviously, the judgment in favor of MAC over Windows has been made. MAC is the better of the two, its only fault being that it is not quite as good as Windows for computer games. To those who have fallen into the computer game trap, I would only say: get a life. It must be far more interesting to deal with real people and real situations. Don't stay hidden away behind your computer just because Bill Gates needs more money and caters to your addiction. :)

Obviously, the judgment in favor of MAC over Windows has been made. MAC is the better of the two, its only fault being that it is not quite as good as Windows for computer games. To those who have fallen into the computer game trap, I would only say: get a life. It must be far more interesting to deal with real people and real situations. Don't stay hidden away behind your computer just because Bill Gates needs more money and caters to your addiction. :)

What utter nonsense. Fanboys of an operating system would be the ones who should 'get a life' if you ask me, so please don't say such things. Look at this site for some objectivity:

http://www.xvsxp.com/

I use Windows because it is cheap and it has the abitity to be expanded indefinately. The computer I'm running right now is six years old, and the only original thing in it is the prosessor, motherboard, and power supply. With a windows-style PC, you can upgrade slowly. A Widows PC that is upgraded with knowledge can last you, in theory, forever. But a mac will last you what, five years? My 6-year-old is running fine. In a few weeks, I'm thinking of putting a new M-board and processer in it, having it last another 4.

As to the actual OS, I have never realy used a mac. I think I did once a few years ago, and didn't realy like it.


But I sure do love my iPod! :)

I use Windows because it is cheap and it has the abitity to be expanded indefinately. The computer I'm running right now is six years old, and the only original thing in it is the prosessor, motherboard, and power supply. With a windows-style PC, you can upgrade slowly. A Widows PC that is upgraded with knowledge can last you, in theory, forever. But a mac will last you what, five years? My 6-year-old is running fine. In a few weeks, I'm thinking of putting a new M-board and processer in it, having it last another 4.

You are aware you can do all that to a Mac, too, right? The reason few people do it is because it's normally just cheaper to go buy a new one.

However, the most expandable Mac ever made (A PowerMac 7500) was awesome for things like that. We had one. Upgraded the processor to a G3 and the graphics card, with some other bits and pieces. It ran Unreal Tournament better than a new iMac. The only reason we got rid of it was that the graphics card was a Voodoo, and what with them going bust, the card was no longer supported by any new application. And, unfortunately, PCI graphics cards for the Mac were virtually non-existant, due to Apple's conversion to AGP.

We had that computer a good 5 years; it was still running when we sold it, just we wanted something that would run more games.

All have their advantages and disadvantages, strengths and weaknesses, and fanatics who will preach their perfection.

Windows XP is the middle-ground. It will take nearly any software package you can throw at it simply because it's the developers' OS of choice. It's fairly reliable, fairly easy-to-use, it's fairly versatile and it generally has support from MS (I've had no problems with MS support, anyway) and from third-party software manufacturers. It's greatest strength is gaming, of course -- all commercial computer games (obviously not including console games on that one) are made with Windows primarily in mind. There's no point excluding the majority of your market, after all. It's greatest weakness is its vulnerability to spyware and viruses, despite Microsoft's best efforts to patch it.

Mac OS is a more user-friendly OS. Its interface is clean and easy-to-use, and you won't ever have to do anything complicated if you don't want to. The computers they come installed on typically look good as well, if a little on the 'trendy' side these days. Macs will work fine on your every-day activities such as surfing the web and word processing, and they excell at such things as file management and image editing. And of course, because it is not a target of virus-makers or spyware spammers, your Mac will be largely secure. Gaming is not-so-good, however, as even if you can find a game that works on it, a top-spec Mac simply won't perform as well as a top-spec PC. This could change if Apple would make a more universal OS, but that likely won't happen in the immediate future. And their great user-friendly GUI sacrifices some of its versatility. Support is generally good with Macs, though Macs in general can tend to be a little on the expensive side. They're like the BMWs of the computer world -- you pay through your nose for prestige, then notice that they're actually more common than you thought.

Linux is a technowizard's dream. It will do nearly anything you can think of, is completely customisable and highly reliable. It will even run a lot of commercial software, though some of it does have issues. Although the actual effectiveness of their in-built security features has been brought into question once or twice in the past, due to their relative obscurity they are secure simply because there aren't enough of them to bother writing a virus for. Even if all you do is word processing and online surfing it'll do the job. Although depending on your distribution, they aren't the easiest things in the world to install and set-up, and if you want to use its extensive versatility you will have to educate yourself a little in its inner-workings. Some vendors will give you some support with the Linux side of things, but if you want support from third party software manufacturers (or even your ISP) you can stop dreaming. It is 'not' the most user-friendly operating system around. Community support is good, but only if you know where to go to find it. If Linux could make itself more of a recognised OS so that third-party software developers started to support it, and if it could make itself more user-friendly without sacrificing its versatility, it could be a more competitive system.

That was a good and well-balanced assessment. There are pros and cons to all OS's, and computer users have differing needs and levels of skills.

The Mac is vastly superior to the PC.

I'll give you an example. On a PC running Internet Exploder, if you write a long post on these fora and you wait past an allotted time and you are autologged out in the process, unless you have saved that post somewhere, it's lost forever.

On my Mac running Safari, I've had three posts that have been autologged off, one of them because I forgot it was there. Hitting the back button restores the FULL TEXT of the message I typed, so after I log back in, I can simply click to post my message that I worked so long and so hard on.

Installing software is a snap on the Mac, not so on the PC. Macs are less likely to get slammed with viruses than a PC (although a bit of vigilance can prevent both from getting slammed). The Mac remains supreme in the realm of desktop publishing. Some of the PC's best features of today were already implemented by the Mac, often YEARS ago.

Psst... there are other browsers for Windows. I personally, use www.Opera.com .

However, if you DO get logged off with IE, just type in your password and hit back a couple of times. You can then preview/post.

I've *never* had anything I couldn't install on XP, 2000, and even 98 loaded most anything. How hard is it to put in the CD and hit "install"??
True, re: virii, though that's also because... why would someone bother writing a mac virus? ;)

The Mac does have an entrenchment in desktop publishing. However, it's wholly lacking in several areas:

* For example, there is quite simply no good Mac database. FileMakerPro is great, if you have very simple needs. But it just does not compare to Access, let alone SQL or Oracle.
* Macs are hard to mass update. Can someone name a way to upgrade a ton of Macs other than the venerable Microsoft SMS 1.1?? I know that some products like PatchLink allow one to push packages, but is there a Mac "Microsoft RIS"?
* Mac didn't even field a server product for several years, and even now server apps are rare that even compare to the Windows or Unix. I can't think of Mac proxy server software, nor email server software.
Basically, in terms of being a server, the MacIntosh platform is about equal to where Novell was in 1988, though they can serve web pages.

Maybe I just pick the wrong things to stick in the USB port. The bluetooth adapter didn't work without a driver. My flash drive works, although it keeps asking for a driver everytime I plug it in. My USB to RS232 adapter didn't work until I loaded the driver...It just goes on and on. Even the Logitec USB mouse won't work properly when plugged into my KVM switch.

I cant vouch for the Bluetooth, but anything that's manufactured after an OS is made/updated needs a driver. Try installing an HP 5500 printer onto a Mac OS9 system. :)
Ditto the RS232.

For the flash drive: Have you installed the driver (I assume you have rights), then stopped it before removing it? I've seen that with some brands. (I have a TinyDisk, it doesn't seem to have that problem).

What sort of KVM are we talking about?

I'm not entirely sure why I'm posting this, but it might give a few people a laugh...

A few years ago, I got myself a brand-spanking new Mac. To go with this machine (which, primarily, I was going to use for games) I bought myself a 2-button mouse and scroll-wheel. As it turns out, the cheapest one was a Microsoft one.

About a year later, my Dad was given a Compaq laptop for work. Again, a totally new computer. One night he decided that he was fed up using the track-pad, and so decided to plug in my mouse. My Microsoft mouse, into a computer running Microsoft Windows XP.

In went the USB connector. Looking at the screen, it didn't seem to have registered anything. He moved the mouse - nothing. He moved the track-pad - still nothing. The computer had frozen stiff. So, he decided to restart it. Came back up...nothing. Frozen solid again.

I can't remember how long he spent trying to make the bloody thing work, before he unplugged and returned my mouse, and had to re-install Windows from a disk.

But there you go. That's one of the many reasons why I don't like Windows.

That's a heck of an experience. Can't really speak to it, since I have no idea who loaded it, or if it had any other problems. However, that sounds like it needed a firmware/driver update.

I use Windows because it is cheap and it has the abitity to be expanded indefinately. The computer I'm running right now is six years old, and the only original thing in it is the prosessor, motherboard, and power supply. With a windows-style PC, you can upgrade slowly. A Widows PC that is upgraded with knowledge can last you, in theory, forever. But a mac will last you what, five years? My 6-year-old is running fine. In a few weeks, I'm thinking of putting a new M-board and processer in it, having it last another 4.

As to the actual OS, I have never realy used a mac. I think I did once a few years ago, and didn't realy like it.


But I sure do love my iPod! :)
Linux is free ... and its file system expands farther

As far as hardware BAH BS ... soon as they change sockets
Busses
Interfaces ... on you ... you are screwed


All KINDS of connecters have gone out of style
PRetty soon you cant up grade them any more
and they are not worth the money when you do