NationStates Jolt Archive

there's been a lot of posts on here of late asking who people would vote for out of a small, depressingly limited list of candidates. so i thought i'd throw up a totally open field, and let people choose their own candidates. the only rules are that you have to choose both one (1) democrat and one (1) republican to run against each other. other than that, have fun. senators, governors, members of dubya's white house. cellebrity politico's, etcetera. who'd you have running to be your president in 2008?

as for myself, i'm not an american so i don't know the records/history of your countries governments, but i do follow world politics fairly well, so i'll keep it to what i'd most like to see on CNN in the debates. my pics would be John McCain and Russ Feingold. both men seem to have a base set of principals that they're willing to defend, both are wiling to go against the mainstream of their parties to defend what they believe in, and both seem to honestly want to present a vision of america and try to inspire people with it.

seriously, think about it. televised US presidential debates featuring principaled, intelegent men debating ideas for how to move the country forward, rather than just taking cheap shots at each other's advertising and trying not to say anything at all, for fear of offending people. it'd be entertaining, and some good government might come of it.

...plus, think of the marquis! McCain/Feingold. you loved the campaign finance reform bill, now thrill to the presidential campaign!

so who'd be your pics? and, ideally, you should also tell us why.

No one would put another Bush in the White House. I think Frist is going to try and pull it off and use the Katrina disaster to do it.

No one would put another Bush in the White House. I think Frist is going to try and pull it off and use the Katrina disaster to do it.


Bu$h caused the deaths of katrina.

Run MCCAIN!!!!!


ARGH!!!


HE'LL WIN!!!!!


Seriously... the only person the Republican's could run that would get them to lose against Hilary would be Jeb. We could even run Powell and win.

Who can the democrats run with any chance of winning?

If Clinton runs, the Democratic Party will end up just like it did back in 1968, except this time I think it'll fracture for good.

Bu$h caused the deaths of katrina.

No, the President, the US Congress, the State of Louisiana, and the City of New Orleans were responsible for the multiple failiures that resulted in a high death count. They are also the most corrupt state in the US, which doesn't bode well for the appropriation of funds nor the quality of the police force (they have to buy their own guns, for God's sake)

I'd rather slowly cut my balls off with a blunt object than vote for either of them.

Hmm. A lot of people seem to be of the opinion that McCain is somehow going to switch parties and run as a democrat... :rolleyes:

I actually think McCain would make a great president, simply because he's the type of person that gets things done and doesn't resort to partisan bitching.

yeah, but i'm not actually asking about hil or jeb. i'm asking who you WOULD want to run, being able to choose from the entire party. it's very different ;)

I see George Felix Allen, former Governor and now Junior Senator of Virginia as the Republican nominee and I would like to see Vice Preident Al Gore run as the Democrat nominee. Both men are very strong in their party, though Gore has said he does not intend to run, he has never ruled it out either. Many, predict that Hillary Clinton will run but as she will need nearly $45 million for Senate run next year, I don't see her raising the funds for a presidential election also, plus what kind of message would it make to the New Yorkers that elected her only to leave them 4 years early.

My vote goes to Al Gore (http://algore2008.net/)

I'd vote for Clinton if she ran.

But I'd rather vote for someone who most of the country doesen't hate.

McCain or Biden would be good choices.

John Stewart vs. Arnold S.

I'd vote for Hillary, but I don't think she's win. I wouldn't mind McCain winning. He's a Republican, but he's relatively moderate and doesn't kiss the ass of the religious right.

One thing I can't seem to understand is the reaction that Hillary Clinton stirrs up in these forums from conservatives and or republicans every time her name is mentioned. Ideologicaly and politicaly what is it about that woman that you hate so much? Anybody?

I don't live in the US and I'm not american so I've obviously got limited insight on such things. My question is an honest one. I expect to get serious, well argumented and supported answers.

Until I get them I'll provide my best guess. Perhaps it's their fear of her popularity as senator for New York, and the fact the she is a woman, which would practicaly guarantee a huge boost in female votes even within red states, if she chose to run for the presidency. I dunno... just guessing.

Her last name is Clinton, if it were Murray or Smith, no one would give a shit.

i would like to see myself president, but nobody would vote for me. :(

One thing I can't seem to understand is the reaction that Hillary Clinton stirrs up in these forums from conservatives and or republicans every time her name is mentioned. Ideologicaly and politicaly what is it about that woman that you hate so much? Anybody?

I don't live in the US and I'm not american so I've obviously got limited insight on such things. My question is an honest one. I expect to get serious, well argumented and supported answers.

Until I get them I'll provide my best guess. Perhaps it's their fear of her popularity as senator for New York, and the fact the she is a woman, which would practicaly guarantee a huge boost in female votes even within red states, if she chose to run for the presidency. I dunno... just guessing.

Most of us "liberals" hate her too. She sucks.

Her last name is Clinton, if it were Murray or Smith, no one would give a shit.

Not for me. I love Bill but loathe Hillary because she's just plain unlikable and cold. She seems like a total bitch (which is why I could sympathize with Bill and Monica Lewinsky) and I'd never vote for her.

Dr. Condileeza Rice and as her running mate Zell Miller.
Cause I know we have to protect these great states with a whole lot more than "spitballs" :p

Her last name is Clinton, if it were Murray or Smith, no one would give a shit.

or boxer. boxer doesn't seem to take the same amount of flack as clinton in the press, and if anything she's the more liberal of the two.

anyone who would run the country THEIR way. Not the democrats way. Not the Republicans way. Not the Pot Party's way. I believe that if a person treats the country as their home, and run it the way they feel is best, the Republicans can be mad at him/her and so can the Democrats, making the US's politics much more honest.

Most of us "liberals" hate her too. She sucks.I don't think so. She's a centrist liberal, and I think that's great. If she where president america would eventually reap the benefits of universal health care. I don't know if republicans care much about the fact that 40 million americans don't have health insurance. Hillary apparently does.

I've heard rumors that Newt Gingrich might run.

I'd be forced into voting green, because there is no way in hell I'll vote for a censorshit-nazy like Hillary. And... Bush... He's a neo-con... 'nuff said.

I don't think so. She's a centrist liberal, and I think that's great. If she where president america would eventually reap the benefits of universal health care. I don't know if republicans care much about the fact that 40 million americans don't have health insurance. Hillary apparently does.

Yes, the taxes and red tape would more or less ruin our healthcare system. They tried to design it once, but it failed miserably. The private sector handles it best in a country as big as the US. Anything else collapses in to bureaucracy and corruption.

Don't forget that the number of people who don't have HI is inflated somewhat by young people who don't get it because they don't need it.

I'd be forced into voting green, because there is no way in hell I'll vote for a censorshit-nazy like Hillary. And... Bush... He's a neo-con... 'nuff said.
You must be confused with Senator Lieberman. :D

Yes, the taxes and red tape would more or less ruin our healthcare system. They tried to design it once, but it failed miserably. The private sector handles it best in a country as big as the US. Anything else collapses in to bureaucracy and corruption.
Neither an individualistic, capitalist private sector nor a bloated, individualistic bureaucracy should be given the run of a healthcare system. Sadly, we have to pick one or the other.

Im so glad I dont live in america. even thought I despise her I'd probly end up voting for hilary just to keep the republicans out. Its been so long since anywhere had an election with a candidate people would actually vote FOR, rather than just voting against the other guy.

It would suck ass if my first election to vote would have *those* choices. I would either not vote, or just vote Libertarian.

it's only 2005 and you people are already talking about next election! :eek:
you people need a monarchy or something, then you wouldn't have to worry about who's getting in power, heheh.

it's only 2005 and you people are already talking about next election! :eek: That's how much they're sick and tired of Bush idiocy.

Im so glad I dont live in america. even thought I despise her I'd probly end up voting for hilary just to keep the republicans out. Its been so long since anywhere had an election with a candidate people would actually vote FOR, rather than just voting against the other guy.

I'm so glad you don't live in the United States either. Let me see if I have this right, you would vote for "hilary" (aka Hillary Clinton) just to keep the republicans out. Why? What do you think you know about the republican party?

Ideologicaly and politicaly what is it about that woman that you hate so much? Anybody?

I don't live in the US and I'm not american so I've obviously got limited insight on such things. My question is an honest one. I expect to get serious, well argumented and supported answers.

.

First let me say that I am a Democrat and I admired Bill Clinton as our president. I feel that he did more for our country than any in recent history (at least FDR). Republicans brought his personal life into politics and he hurt himself trying to deny the sexual allegations wich turned into scandals.

I don't hate Hillary, I guess I would call it apathy. Where are her loyalties? She is self-serving as far as her political career is concerned and disguises it well with her socialist-liberal views. I would call her a carpetbagger: contemporary definition = an outsider that moves someplace to exploit the natives and enrich him/herself at their expense, or a politician that moves to another state for political reasons, such as ease of election.
Consider this, she was born in my home state of Illinois where she spent her first 18 years, then it was off to college in Massachusetts for 9 years, moves to Arkansas and marries Bill, there for 18 years, moves into the White House in D.C. for 12 years. buys a home in New York to run against a weaker Republican incumbant. She wins a 6 year term as Senator and is up for re-election next year for another 6 year term. She will be campaigning heavily on issues that are dear to New Yorkers and making promises only she is also considering a run for the Presidency 2 years later. I think I would respect her more if she once and for all tell the people of New York that she will not waste their tax money on an election for a position she has no intentions on fullfilling and that she will serve out her term as Senator (if re-elected) and possibly seek a presidential in 2012.

I'm so glad you don't live in the United States either. Let me see if I have this right, you would vote for "hilary" (aka Hillary Clinton) just to keep the republicans out. Why? What do you think you know about the republican party?1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PNAC
That's what I call imperialism. I can't see any differences in the PNAC's ideals and the Al-Qaeda. The means and the methods are different but the goals are identical.

and 2. I have no problem with Hillary Clinton. I have kindly asked for those of you that do to explain in depth exactly what is so bad about Hillary.

EDIT: On this page you'll find my initial question.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=442277&page=1&pp=15

I'm so glad you don't live in the United States either. Let me see if I have this right, you would vote for "hilary" (aka Hillary Clinton) just to keep the republicans out. Why? What do you think you know about the republican party?

we know that they seem overly beholden to christian extremists and large, corperate lobbyists, that they prefer jingoist pseudo-patriotic slogans to open public discourse, and that they crassly manipulate crisis' to gain votes when they can. we also know that they used to be a proud party that stood for various things that need to be said, and that if their current incarnation were to loose enough times they might go back to that.

Naturally I voted for Jeb Bush after all what did you all expect from La Habana Cuba.

I love Public polls, I think if we are to vote and share our views on Nationstates, we should make them with a public poll, even a vote for President poll.

I have seen many good threads that should have a
public poll with no poll at all.

First let me say that I am a Democrat and I admired Bill Clinton as our president. I feel that he did more for our country than any in recent history (at least FDR). Couldn't agree more. :D

I don't hate Hillary, I guess I would call it apathy. Where are her loyalties? She is self-serving as far as her political career is concerned and disguises it well with her socialist-liberal views. I would call her a carpetbagger: contemporary definition = an outsider that moves someplace to exploit the natives and enrich him/herself at their expense, or a politician that moves to another state for political reasons, such as ease of election.Perhaps... but moving to NY wasn't exactly a guaranteed victory. It was a pretty close call and she fought hard in traditionally republican counties, and won them over. The polls indicate she will easily win her second term in 2006. That means she's earned it.

She will be campaigning heavily on issues that are dear to New Yorkers and making promises only she is also considering a run for the Presidency 2 years later. I think I would respect her more if she once and for all tell the people of New York that she will not waste their tax money on an election for a position she has no intentions on fullfilling and that she will serve out her term as Senator (if re-elected) and possibly seek a presidential in 2012.Sounds fair enough to me. I would want to have that cleared up before casting my vote for sure, but it's only normal for anybody in their profession to aspire greater things for tomorrow at the expense of the present.

I'm curious to see what the fellas that really hate her have to say.

Florida Republican Governor Jeb Bush for President 2008

Jeb Bush is a popular Florida Governor
from Miami Florida, the Cubans like him,
oh-well no one is perfect, he is married
to a Mexican, he speaks perfect fluent spanish,
his son looks 100 percent hispanic and
speaks perfect fluent spanish, thats a goood
resume in relating to the hispanic vote,
Floridas overall unemployment rate is 4.5 percent
one of the lowest in the nation, florida leads other
states in job growth.

An old La habana Cuba post.

Florida Republican Governor Jeb Bush for President 2008

Jeb Bush is a popular Florida Governor
from Miami Florida, the Cubans like him,
oh-well no one is perfect, he is married
to a Mexican, he speaks perfect fluent spanish,
his son looks 100 percent hispanic and
speaks perfect fluent spanish, thats a goood
resume in relating to the hispanic vote,
Floridas overall unemployment rate is 4.5 percent
one of the lowest in the nation, florida leads other
states in job growth.

An old La habana Cuba post.
Cuban is not Mexican. The Cubans voting interest is anti-Cuba politics, hispanics in general lean more towards the kind of things that affect African Americans and immigration. Being a Bush is enough to cost him the election among anyone, especially minorities. Florida also has to be over 50% tourist industry, you can't not have a job.

I don't think so. She's a centrist liberal, and I think that's great. If she where president america would eventually reap the benefits of universal health care. I don't know if republicans care much about the fact that 40 million americans don't have health insurance. Hillary apparently does.

Apparently someone doesn't know that much about Hillary. She's a political liability and to really be associated with her is taking your election into your own hands.

Chellis said it right! She sucks.

That's how much they're sick and tired of Bush idiocy.

The next election cycle starts the day after the last election cycle ends. Welcome to American Politics!

Powell/Paul for the Republicans in '08.

Yes, that's pure wishful thinking, but the only Republican ticket I'll ever vote for is one with Ron Paul on it.

but it's only normal for anybody in their profession to aspire greater things for tomorrow at the expense of the present.

While this is true, there is a bigger picture to look at. If she wins the presidecny after winning a second term in the Senate, she will effectively be throwing away a guaranteed Democratic seat in the Senate. If the Democrats don't gain more seats than the Republicans then we will have another lame duck president. If this happens, I fear yet another 4 years of no progress. Right now there is a Republican Senate and House and President. Why do you think Bush is getting away with all that he is? Winning seats in the Congress and not relinquishing them will favor the Democrats in the long run.

Jupaenu, I would love to have a,
President George Bush, followed by a
President Jeb Bush.

So you are right that would be like a
monarchy.

Florida Department of State
Division of Elections
November 3, 1998 General Election

Official Results

Jeb Bush 2,191,105 - 55.27 %
Buddy MacKay 1,773,054 - 44.73 %
Others 282 - .01 %
___________________________________
3,964,441 -100.00 %



--------------------------------------

Florida Department of State
Division of Elections
November 3, 2002 General Election

Jeb Bush 2,783,346 - 56.15 %
Bill MCBride 2,132,185 - 43.02 %
Others 41,220 - .83 &
_________________________________
4,956,751 -100.00 %



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

While I would love to see Jeb Bush win in 2008,
I understand the chances of another Bush following
George W Bush is not good, and right now it dosent
look good but alot can change in politics,
but dont think I am under any illusions here.


Data is based on a number of diffrent sources,
it is very hard to find all the information you need
with only one source.

I had to put this toghether piece by piece,
and I had fun with it.

Both sides agreed Bush probably got a majority of the Hispanic vote in Florida, but couldn't agree whether his percentage was somewhere in the 50s or 60s. Republicans have traditionally fared well in Florida because of GOP-leaning Cuban Americans who are now joined by a growing number of Puerto Ricans.

Florida Governor Jeb Bush is younger, smarter, taller, more articulate, harder working, and better looking than George W. Jeb will be 55 in 2008 and 63, the age at which is father was elected President, in 2016 - which is about when the Mexican-American vote will finally start to be significant (assuming immigration is not stopped). Jeb speaks excellent Spanish, has a degree in Latin American Studies, a Mexican-born wife, and lots of useful contacts with rich Mexican power-brokers.

I think he did just as well with Florida Mexican Americans who now constitute
a good part of the Florida hispanic population.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Source: Jeb Bush, Wikipedia - on short notice.
Bush's appeal to Florida voters
Bush is very popular among Cubans in Florida (winning 80% of the Cuban vote in 2002), and popular among non-Cuban Hispanics (56% in 2002, equaling the 56% he won statewide). As a longtime supporter of Israel,Bush also maintains a significant connection to Florida's Jewish voters. He was endorsed in his two winning governor races by a national Jewish publication, and won 44% of the state's Jewish vote in the 2002 governor's race

Election I'd love to see: Condi Rice vs. Hillary Clinton, talk about a mud-wrestling match.

Stealth Republican Candidate: Gov. Mike Huckabee from Arkansas - watch him, he's good and knows all the right people and has the right moves and personality (and would probably make a decent president - tends to be fairly centrist)

Democrat Candiate: Hmmm, other than Hillary, I can't think of any that would have a chance right now. You either love them and their hatred of Bush rhetoric which you fully buy, no matter how idiotic (and not all is idiotic, but the loudest voices on the dem. side tend to be about hating Bush and nothing else) or you hate them because they are idiotic (and will hence vote for any Republican, no matter how idiotic (s)he might be as well.

Libertarians - it is time to make our voice heard.

Mauiwowee, please post a number of diffrent candidates libertarians would like to vote for.

I'll be voting for myself, as I have for the past 4 elections. Long live the Peace and Justice Party! Good day and GOD bless all!

Mauiwowee, please post a number of diffrent candidates libertarians would like to vote for.

Karen Kwiatkowski is the best potential Libertarian IMHO.

From the options, Jeb Bush. I really, really hate Hillary Clinton. With a Passion (capital P).

I don't think so. She's a centrist liberal, and I think that's great. If she where president america would eventually reap the benefits of universal health care. I don't know if republicans care much about the fact that 40 million americans don't have health insurance. Hillary apparently does.
America will never get universal healthcare, just like abortion will never be repealed. It's not in the interests of the parties.

there's been a lot of posts on here of late asking who people would vote for out of a small, depressingly limited list of candidates. so i thought i'd throw up a totally open field, and let people choose their own candidates. the only rules are that you have to choose both one (1) democrat and one (1) republican to run against each other. other than that, have fun. senators, governors, members of dubya's white house. cellebrity politico's, etcetera. who'd you have running to be your president in 2008?

as for myself, i'm not an american so i don't know the records/history of your countries governments, but i do follow world politics fairly well, so i'll keep it to what i'd most like to see on CNN in the debates. my pics would be John McCain and Russ Feingold. both men seem to have a base set of principals that they're willing to defend, both are wiling to go against the mainstream of their parties to defend what they believe in, and both seem to honestly want to present a vision of america and try to inspire people with it.

seriously, think about it. televised US presidential debates featuring principaled, intelegent men debating ideas for how to move the country forward, rather than just taking cheap shots at each other's advertising and trying not to say anything at all, for fear of offending people. it'd be entertaining, and some good government might come of it.

...plus, think of the marquis! McCain/Feingold. you loved the campaign finance reform bill, now thrill to the presidential campaign!

so who'd be your pics? and, ideally, you should also tell us why.

At this point, I honestly cant say. The American political system as it is today has got me so disheartened.

Best I could say would be Marshal Mathers, just because I can believe more of what he says than any politician Ive heard in a while.

Where's the electoral college in this election ;)

Apparently someone doesn't know that much about Hillary. She's a political liability and to really be associated with her is taking your election into your own hands.

Chellis said it right! She sucks.You've said that a zillion times before. What I want to know is why. Explain that please. When you're done with that clarify it. And when your done with that expand on it. Surely you can do better than that to call her a liability. If she where a liability she would not be a US Senator. She has some popularity and some support from many americans. Surely enough not to call her a liability.

I was looking for intelligent well thought out answers since page 2 (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=9583184&postcount=13). We're on page four and it doesn't look promising. You guys are beginning to dissapoint me.

Regardless of who runs, I'm casting a write-in vote for Jon Stewart...and I urge everyone else to do the same. :)

Hilary Clinton may not be as great a candidate as she once was. But just imagine who would be back in the white house? The Clinton Administration was great for the nation.

If you want another Bush in the White House, I express my sympathy.

You've said that a zillion times before. What I want to know is why. Explain that please. When you're done with that clarify it. And when your done with that expand on it. Surely you can do better than that to call her a liability. If she where a liability she would not be a US Senator. She has some popularity and some support from many americans. Surely enough not to call her a liability.

I was looking for intelligent well thought out answers since page 2 (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=9583184&postcount=13). We're on page four and it doesn't look promising. You guys are beginning to dissapoint me.

Dude, anyone that knows Hillary knows that she's a political liability. Her own history would be fully exposed to the Press.

The reason why we aren't really answering it is because the answers are fairly well known.

Hilary Clinton may not be as great a candidate as she once was. But just imagine who would be back in the white house? The Clinton Administration was great for the nation.

If you want another Bush in the White House, I express my sympathy.

I'll grant part of that on his domestic policy. Some of it was good but other parts of his policy wouldn't.

On Foriegn Policy, he was horrible. I wouldn't want the Clinton Administration running foriegn policy.

I went with the third option. Although it might be a try to have Jeb in(in some of my readings, the Bush family expected him to go for presidentcy), I think there will be a major revolt/revolution if another Bush got elected, they have a bad name now. I SERIOUSLY don't want Hillary in. It is going to be a hard choice for my first election...

Dude, anyone that knows Hillary knows that she's a political liability. Her own history would be fully exposed to the Press.

The reason why we aren't really answering it is because the answers are fairly well known.I'm sorry but that's just not going to cut it. If the answers are fairly well known they must certainly be documented and explainable. I'm just asking to back up your point of view on Hillary and from where I'm standing you're starting to look ridiculous.

On Foriegn Policy, he was horrible. I wouldn't want the Clinton Administration running foriegn policy.Would you rather have the PNAC doing that?