NationStates Jolt Archive

Post your views and comments on the
New Orleans Hurricane mess.

Everyone is trying to do what they can to help and that is what counts.

you are wasting forum resources with all your Bushite polls

Everyone cares, I dont think there is one political leader in our nation and friendly US nations that may have political diffrences with us at the moment that dont care.

I also don't blame anyone in particular. It was the worst possible thing happening in the worst possible place.

People can't help bending tragedy to support their political views, though, so what can you do?

Good. It would be incredible insensitive to BLAME someone for what is occuring in New Orleans right now. All we can do is hope and pray for the best possible result.

I also don't blame anyone in particular. It was the worst possible thing happening in the worst possible place.

People can't help bending tragedy to support their political views, though, so what can you do?

Call them on it. Every one of them. Republican, Democrat, whatever. If the guy wants to point a finger, twist the finger till they scream.

Call them on it. Every one of them. Republican, Democrat, whatever. If the guy wants to point a finger, twist the finger till they scream.

Those who do it are far to fervent in their political beliefs to care anyway.

Screw it.


Blame?

Are we talking about who I blame the Hurricane on?

Or who I blame the woefully slow emergency responses on?
Becuase a hurricane is a natural disaster, those just happen.

However, the relief aid has been going very poorly, and not soon enough, and that I blame on the local, state, and federal officials.

Locally, the mayors office should have been more prepared for this event wich everyone knew was coming.
The State of Louisiana should have allocated more funds for this purpose if the city couldnt afford them.

More preparation should have been done, and even the police were lacking equipment.

On the Federal level, relief efforts were woefully slow.
5 days is intolerable, considering we had food and water drops in Thailand within three.

However...time to roll heads later.....for now...just help.

Call them on it. Every one of them. Republican, Democrat, whatever. If the guy wants to point a finger, twist the finger till they scream.
maybe you should try to twist this dude's fingers....cos he sure likes to point fingers.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=442113

you are wasting forum resources with all your Bushite polls
Says the master of five a day anti-bush screeds/threads. :rolleyes:

From my vantage, the blame I see being assigned by the media and on NS is about the situation in NO, not the south.

Very little, if any, blame toward the government is directed toward the horrific situation in the other gulf states. Why is that? Did the government fail Biloxi or other coastal cities? It took them as long to get there as it did to reach NO.

There would be much less of a story in NO if a few things had been done prior to the hurricane, and they all were decisions made by the mayor of that city.

What would NO have been like if there had been abundant food and water for the people in shelters?
If there had been generators and chemical toilets in the shelters?
If there were more shelters?
If there were food and water for the people who remained at home until after the storm, those who came walking in the last few days?
If Nagin had the sense to compile a list of the elderly and sick so that the city could attempt to transport them to shelter?
If Nagin attempted to keep the hospitals supplied with water, food, and fuel?

Sure, you might still have had violence, and people still would have died. But you wouldn't have had a NO whose citizens were dying from lack of basic needs, and there wouldn't be such a huge crisis as there is now.

Nagin was asleep at the switch and let his people down. We have enough facts to know that now.

From my vantage, the blame I see being assigned by the media and on NS is about the situation in NO, not the south.

Very little, if any, blame toward the government is directed toward the horrific situation in the other gulf states. Why is that? Did the government fail Biloxi or other coastal cities? It took them as long to get there as it did to reach NO.

There would be much less of a story in NO if a few things had been done prior to the hurricane, and they all were decisions made by the mayor of that city.

What would NO have been like if there had been abundant food and water for the people in shelters?
If there had been generators and chemical toilets in the shelters?
If there were more shelters?
If there were food and water for the people who remained at home until after the storm, those who came walking in the last few days?
If Nagin had the sense to compile a list of the elderly and sick so that the city could attempt to transport them to shelter?
If Nagin attempted to keep the hospitals supplied with water, food, and fuel?

Sure, you might still have had violence, and people still would have died. But you wouldn't have had a NO whose citizens were dying from lack of basic needs, and there wouldn't be such a huge crisis as there is now.

Nagin was asleep at the switch and let his people down. We have enough facts to know that now.


If Mayor Nagin is to blame, then the Govenors office must share at least some of the blame.

If your a Govenor, you ought to have a plan of action in case your biggest coastal city, (wich happens to be below seal level) gets hit by a cat-5 hurricane....(wich you know is inevitable.)

A lot of the problems in New Orleans stem from a series of mistakes made over the course of the past few decades, not just one oversight, one time period or one individual in particular. That's why I don't take any criticism seriously that points the finger at Bush, the federal government, the Governor of Louisiana or the Mayor of New Orleans.

A lot of the problems in New Orleans stem from a series of mistakes made over the course of the past few decades, not just one oversight, one time period or one individual in particular. That's why I don't take any criticism seriously that points the finger at Bush, the federal government, the Governor of Louisiana or the Mayor of New Orleans.


So you dont listen to anything that points the finger at the highest levels of responsibility?

If the slow response isnt the fault of the federal government, whos is it?

If the poor planning isnt the mayors fault, then whose?

If the budgets were woefully underfunded, then who, but the state government is at fault?

If Mayor Nagin is to blame, then the Govenors office must share at least some of the blame.

If your a Govenor, you ought to have a plan of action in case your biggest coastal city, (wich happens to be below seal level) gets hit by a cat-5 hurricane....(wich you know is inevitable.)

I agree with you. Nagin is as far as I care to point my finger at this time, the facts supporting this seem conclusive.

It's less clear how well the state and feds did. They both faced unusual obstacles to speedy response, i.e. roads clogged for a hundred miles with trees and power lines, no communication, etc. The state had to respond not only to NO, but to it's whole southern half as well - and it's resources were challenged.

I'm going to wait for a while, more facts will come in eventually. I think there's going to be plenty of things that could have been done better, but it's premature to assign blame without facts.

Nagin's actions strike me as rank irresponsibility, and if I were a citizen of that city I would want him out. I'm guessing that other failures may not be as egregious as Nagin's, but we'll see.

I agree with you. Nagin is as far as I care to point my finger at this time, the facts supporting this seem conclusive.

It's less clear how well the state and feds did. They both faced unusual obstacles to speedy response, i.e. roads clogged for a hundred miles with trees and power lines, no communication, etc. The state had to respond not only to NO, but to it's whole southern half as well - and it's resources were challenged.

I'm going to wait for a while, more facts will come in eventually. I think there's going to be plenty of things that could have been done better, but it's premature to assign blame without facts.

Nagin's actions strike me as rank irresponsibility, and if I were a citizen of that city I would want him out. I'm guessing that other failures may not be as egregious as Nagin's, but we'll see.

I know Ive said this ad nauseum already, but In Thailand, after the tsunami hit, food and water was air-dropped within three days.
No such actions were taken until after FIVE days in our own country.

I honestly dont know whose fault that is, but its absolutely unacceptable!

Chinook helicopters, or even large bombers can be stuffed with a lot of water and food and blankets, even if you have to commandeer all the edible goods from the local Wal-Mart, stuff it on a plane, and drop it all over the city of New Orleans!

Lives have been lost because some people somewhere, fucked around and didnt get the emergency ball rolling, and whoever they are...they should be shot.
Or fired, at the very least.

So you dont listen to anything that points the finger at the highest levels of responsibility?

If the slow response isnt the fault of the federal government, whos is it?

If the poor planning isnt the mayors fault, then whose?

If the budgets were woefully underfunded, then who, but the state government is at fault?

I just wrote this HUGE post and when I clicked "Submit Reply," the site signed me out and asked for my username and password. This has happened twice before. SO aggravating. I'll try to sum up my position in fewer words.

When something goes wrong in the world, people tend to want to pin a name and a face to the wrongdoing, especially the most prominent names and faces. For example, when the economy tanks, we all point the finger at Greenspan and Bush even though neither man singlehandedly controls the vast and complex interactions that make up the economy.

The same goes for the New Orleans disaster. I have no problem with blaming the government when it's actually appropriate to blame the government. The state of Louisiana royally screwed up and thousands of people died as a result. It's intellectually dishonest, though, to point the finger solely at the Governor of Louisiana or the Mayor of New Orleans. They're merely representatives or figureheads of state legislators and state officials across time who made good and bad decisions - decisions that in part caused Hurricane Katrina's devastating effects. I don't mind people pointing out that the Governor and the Mayor could have or should have done more, but they're not dictators, they share power with others and they don't wield enough power in their positions, so there's absolutely no way they can be solely or even mostly responsible for what's happening. Notice that I didn't say we shouldn't blame the state legislature. I just have a problem blaming individuals who logically can't be mostly responsible.

The federal government didn't respond quickly because it's not designed to respond quickly. Natural disasters are in the domain of state and local governments first because 1) state and local governments are smaller and therefore can quickly and more easily mobilize disaster relief efforts and 2) state and local governments are closer in proximity to the disaster. The federal government gets called when the disaster's simply too big for state and local governments to handle. This isn't Bush's fault and this isn't the federal government's fault. But even if it were the federal government's fault, Bush is just a name and a face on a gigantic entity comprised of hundreds of thousands of individuals making good and bad decisions. He isn't solely responsible for everything that goes wrong at every level of the federal government. You can blame Bush for what he actively has control over, like signing and vetoing bills, executive orders - you know, his constitutional powers - but he can't coordinate federal, state, and local efforts at some super-human pace. The federal government isn't some gigantic tank - it's a collection of actual people who operate in real time and in real space. They can't wave a magic wand and mobilize the might and force of the federal government in a day. And since Louisiana was supposed to respond first, the federal government would have had more time to organize. But this didn't happen, unfortunately, and people suffered for it.

I just wrote this HUGE post and when I clicked "Submit Reply," the site signed me out and asked for my username and password. This has happened twice before. SO aggravating. I'll try to sum up my position in fewer words.

When something goes wrong in the world, people tend to want to pin a name and a face to the wrongdoing, especially the most prominent names and faces. For example, when the economy tanks, we all point the finger at Greenspan and Bush even though neither man singlehandedly controls the vast and complex interactions that make up the economy.

The same goes for the New Orleans disaster. I have no problem with blaming the government when it's actually appropriate to blame the government. The state of Louisiana royally screwed up and thousands of people died as a result. It's intellectually dishonest, though, to point the finger solely at the Governor of Louisiana or the Mayor of New Orleans. They're merely representatives or figureheads of state legislators and state officials across time who made good and bad decisions - decisions that in part caused Hurricane Katrina's devastating effects. I don't mind people pointing out that the Governor and the Mayor could have or should have done more, but they're not dictators, they share power with others and they don't wield enough power in their positions, so there's absolutely no way they can be solely or even mostly responsible for what's happening. Notice that I didn't say we shouldn't blame the state legislature. I just have a problem blaming individuals who logically can't be mostly responsible.

The federal government didn't respond quickly because it's not designed to respond quickly. Natural disasters are in the domain of state and local governments first because 1) state and local governments are smaller and therefore can quickly and more easily mobilize disaster relief efforts and 2) state and local governments are closer in proximity to the disaster. The federal government gets called when the disaster's simply too big for state and local governments to handle. This isn't Bush's fault and this isn't the federal government's fault. But even if it were the federal government's fault, Bush is just a name and a face on a gigantic entity comprised of hundreds of thousands of individuals making good and bad decisions. He isn't solely responsible for everything that goes wrong at every level of the federal government. You can blame Bush for what he actively has control over, like signing and vetoing bills, executive orders - you know, his constitutional powers - but can't coordinate federal, state, and local efforts at some super-human pace. The federal government isn't some gigantic tank - it's a collection of actual people who operate in real time and in real space. They can't wave a magic wand and mobilize the might and force of the federal government in a day.

Well, for starters, im pretty aware of how the government works.
However, Im not trying to pin this on anyone just yet.
Even Bush, as much as I hate him and everything he's done to this country, probably has little or no guilt.
If anything, his only fault in this matter was not ensuring, that relief was sent with all due haste.
How much of that is actually his responsibilty, remains to be seen.

As I said earlier, If we can get food and water to Thailand in three days, there is no exscuse for it to take five days, in our country.

Heads should roll, but the guilty parties may not be that easy to find.
This was simply unacceptable.

Well, for starters, im pretty aware of how the government works.
However, Im not trying to pin this on anyone just yet.
Even Bush, as much as I hate him and everything he's done to this country, probably has little or no guilt.
If anything, his only fault in this matter was not ensuring, that relief was sent with all due haste.
How much of that is actually his responsibilty, remains to be seen.

As I said earlier, If we can get food and water to Thailand in three days, there is no exscuse for it to take five days, in our country.

Heads should roll, but the guilty parties may not be that easy to find.
This was simply unacceptable.

The federal government was able to get food to Thailand faster because it immediately realized that international disaster relief was solely its responsibility. The federal government defers to state and local governments during domestic disasters. That explains why the government sat on the issue for a few days until it became apparent that Louisiana couldn't adequately deal with the situation. Also, the federal government did respond in a timely fashion, but not in a significant way. I blame the state of Louisiana for its disorganization and lack of preparedness, not the federal government for its delayed response. I understand your frustration; I was just making an academic point about whom to blame.

The federal government was able to get food to Thailand faster because it immediately realized that international disaster relief was solely its responsibility. The federal government defers to state and local governments during domestic disasters.

Yes, but not disasters of this magnatude.
This was a national emergency.

That explains why the government sat on the issue for a few days until it became apparent that Louisiana couldn't adequately deal with the situation. Also, the federal government did respond in a timely fashion, but not in a significant way. I blame the state of Louisiana for its disorganization and lack of preparedness, not the federal government for its delayed response. I understand your frustration; I was just making an academic point about whom to blame.

From the news reports Ive seen, it seems like a combination of both parties underestimated the need, and dithered in response.

But if anything, it seems that the State Autorities were woefully unprepared for this event wich everyone knew was bound to happen.

Yes, but not disasters of this magnatude.
This was a national emergency.



From the news reports Ive seen, it seems like a combination of both parties underestimated the need, and dithered in response.

But if anything, it seems that the State Autorities were woefully unprepared for this event wich everyone knew was bound to happen.

Right, the magnitude of the disaster wasn't evident at first to either the federal or state government. I agree with you there. Once the feds understood the seriousness of the situation and Louisiana's inability to cope, the government responded fairly quickly.

OK, so let's see if I have you hypocrites right.

It can't possibly be Bush's fault, because he's just the guy at the top and any systemic failures at the Federal level fall entirely on underlings. His policy decisions and directives regarding such things as calling up the Guard, retasking FEMA away from disaster recovery, folding it into the DHS, and/or any funding issues regarding levee upkeep are irrelevant.

After all, he's just the guy at the top. Can't blame him right?


Any LOCAL failures, however, are the direct and personal failings of the mayor. Mayors, after all, are absolute dictators with the personal power to get everything done in the city by fiat and have no underlings such as - say a city council - which provide similar subordinate structures and approval processes for getting things done.


Simply put, your hypocricy is stunning in the complete lack of fairness you apply when assigning comparative blame under similar circumstances.


Gee, wouldn't have anything to do with YOUR personal distaste at his comments the other day would it? Damn uppity mayor had the nerve to criticize Bush, so let's get a start on attacking his character while hiding behind a thin veil of suposed "logic".



Hey, speaking of which, did you hear that ALL SEARCH AND RESCUE AND RELIEF FLIGHTS were suspended during Bush's visit to see what help was needed the other day?

Security you know.

Yeah George, that's being a REAL help to the citizens in a time of need. Prance around for the photo op and leave them to rot for a few extra hours so you can look all concerned for the TV's....

Ths show must go on

Silliopolous; stop twisting Orangians' words. Thats not what he said at all. I encourage you to reread his posts, this time with a little more rigor and a little less vehemence.

Backwoods, Orangians; I would agree that it took a while for the federal government to realize the extent of the emergency. I admit it took me as long. No doubt, it also took the people who decided to stay in the path of the storm by suprise as well. I don't think we can blame that on Uncle Sam.

Some blame may be assignable to local governments. But at the same time, when power goes down, communications go out, streets get blocked or flooded so there is no transportation...how are these agencies supposed to work? Can we really say any level of funding could have averted the scope of this disaster? And if so, is spending that much money for just this one eventuality responsibility?

I am disinclined to think so.

I agree with several earlier posts that we'll have to wait to see what could have been done better. But even then, we should keep in mind that durring a situaion, not all variables are easily visible.

Lastly, Backwoods, I agree. Time to roll heads later. Lets make sure we roll the right ones for the right reasons though, huh?

Silliopolous; stop twisting Orangians' words. Thats not what he said at all. I encourage you to reread his posts, this time with a little more rigor and a little less vehemence.


Since when did I direct my comments specifically or exclusively at Orangian?


Backwoods, Orangians; I would agree that it took a while for the federal government to realize the extent of the emergency. I admit it took me as long. No doubt, it also took the people who decided to stay in the path of the storm by suprise as well. I don't think we can blame that on Uncle Sam.


But when it WAS realized... Monday, certain things happened. Like Louisiana realizing that they didn't have enough National Guard available for the job, and several states offering to jump in and help. Now, the thing about Guardsmen is that they can't just head across state lines without approval. From Washington.

FromAP (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050903/ap_on_re_us/katrina_national_guard)

"Several states ready and willing to send National Guard troops to the rescue in New Orleans didn't get the go-ahead until days after the storm struck -- a delay nearly certain to be investigated by Congress.

New Mexico Gov. Bill Richardson offered Louisiana Gov. Kathleen Blanco help from his state's National Guard last Sunday, the day before Hurricane Katrina hit Louisiana. Blanco accepted, but paperwork needed to get the troops en route didn't come from Washington until late Thursday"

How the hell can you blame the state for arranging for the manpower to be there to do the job when the Feds block the deployment?

Some blame may be assignable to local governments. But at the same time, when power goes down, communications go out, streets get blocked or flooded so there is no transportation...how are these agencies supposed to work? Can we really say any level of funding could have averted the scope of this disaster? And if so, is spending that much money for just this one eventuality responsibility? I am disinclined to think so.


Well, we CAN note the repairs and maintainence that was an integral part of SEMA planning that were cut from Federal funding even though the DHS noted that such an event was not only very possible, but was one of their primary concerns for a disaster. At least one of the levees that failed had had repairs and upgrades delayed due to funding cuts in the past three years. It was a known problem that was ignored.

Incidentally, how much do you think that the cleanup is going to cost when compared to what the proper maintainence of the levees would have cost?



Lastly, Backwoods, I agree. Time to roll heads later. Lets make sure we roll the right ones for the right reasons though, huh?

The problem being, of course, that there NEVER seems to be a right time. During the disaster people say "concentrated on getting the job done", and then afterwards they say "well, mistakes were made but let's just not point fingers but learn from the mistakes so they aren't repeated".

No-one is saying that the whole tragedy could have been averted. But clearly there have been systemic failures at multiple levels. And NOT pointing the finger to the Feds share of that responsibility is not helpful either.

Since when did I direct my comments specifically or exclusively at Orangian?


He kind of dominated the last fair few posts in the thread before your own. If you had intended to assault someone else you might have done well to specify them. As it is, it still looks as if your slinging mud at Orangians.



FromAP

"Several states ready and willing to send National Guard troops to the rescue in New Orleans didn't get the go-ahead until days after the storm struck -- a delay nearly certain to be investigated by Congress.

New Mexico Gov. Bill Richardson offered Louisiana Gov. Kathleen Blanco help from his state's National Guard last Sunday, the day before Hurricane Katrina hit Louisiana. Blanco accepted, but paperwork needed to get the troops en route didn't come from Washington until late Thursday"

How the hell can you blame the state for arranging for the manpower to be there to do the job when the Feds block the deployment?


Why don't we let Congress go ahead and investigate this before we proclaim "GUILTY!" I think their decision will be a bit more informed then either of ours, if no less partisan.



Well, we CAN note the repairs and maintainence that was an integral part of SEMA planning that were cut from Federal funding even though the DHS noted that such an event was not only very possible, but was one of their primary concerns for a disaster. At least one of the levees that failed had had repairs and upgrades delayed due to funding cuts in the past three years. It was a known problem that was ignored.

Incidentally, how much do you think that the cleanup is going to cost when compared to what the proper maintainence of the levees would have cost?


Since when should the levees only be the domain of the federal government? Don't they exist closer to local government? Shouldn't it be the city or county here that should ensure their use? How about the state? Perhaps we should blame the people for not wanting to pay the necessary taxes to ensure proper maintenence was done?

It's too early to say, stop screaming your lungs off before you have all the facts.



The problem being, of course, that there NEVER seems to be a right time. During the disaster people say "concentrated on getting the job done", and then afterwards they say "well, mistakes were made but let's just not point fingers but learn from the mistakes so they aren't repeated".

No-one is saying that the whole tragedy could have been averted. But clearly there have been systemic failures at multiple levels. And NOT pointing the finger to the Feds share of that responsibility is not helpful either.


Right now, I'm viewing it as the opposite. Here we have a bunch of people pointing fingers and assigning blame now, later everyone will do the same. Democrats will shout "Republicans did it!" Republicans will scream "It was the Democrats!" Congress and the President will tussel over each other, and all governments, city, county, state, and federal will blame one another.

But we the people will have more facts then. Hindsight is 20/20, remember?

Wait a while before you claim to know the responsible party...unless you want others to do the same to you.

I blame the people who decided to build a city on swamp land several thousand feet below sea level.

I blame the people who decided to build a city on swamp land several thousand feet below sea level.

Ironically the Old French Quarter of the city, the original area that was built so long ago, in other words "Historic New Orleans" is apparently almost entirely intact and was not severely flooded...the original city seemed to be built responsibly, it was the urban sprawl of subsequent generations during the 20th century that was obliterated...irresponsible planning and zoning...

Why don't we let Congress go ahead and investigate this before we proclaim "GUILTY!" I think their decision will be a bit more informed then either of ours, if no less partisan.



Sure, let's let them just study things and come up with a broadly-based apology for all. Fact is, Lousiana ASKED for help. New MExico was raring to go, and SOMEONE sat on the approval for FOUR DAYS!!!



Since when should the levees only be the domain of the federal government? Don't they exist closer to local government? Shouldn't it be the city or county here that should ensure their use? How about the state? Perhaps we should blame the people for not wanting to pay the necessary taxes to ensure proper maintenence was done?


The port of New Orleans is one of the largest in the world by tonnage, transhipping the breadbasket of the US to the world. Are you suggesting that maintaining the integrity of such a major component of the US economy should be left soley to the tax burden of a local community? Bullshit!

There is a shared interest in mainatining the viability of that port to all Americans, therefore it is a national responsibility.

Second point, it was Bush who hijacked local authority for much of disasteer planning when he created the DHS. That was his mandate - to centralize it. And that became the Department's mandate.

From it's website: (http://www.dhs.gov/dhspublic/theme_home2.jsp)

In the event of a terrorist attack, natural disaster or other large-scale emergency, the Department of Homeland Security will assume primary responsibility on March 1st for ensuring that emergency response professionals are prepared for any situation. This will entail providing a coordinated, comprehensive federal response to any large-scale crisis and mounting a swift and effective recovery effort. The new Department will also prioritize the important issue of citizen preparedness. Educating America's families on how best to prepare their homes for a disaster and tips for citizens on how to respond in a crisis will be given special attention at DHS.

Then, of course, Bush ignored it's findings that the levees were a primary concern - one of the top three EXPECTED disasters - and cut SEMA funding to try and mitigate it. He also retasked FEMA away from disaster recovery.

So, the Feds assumed this responsibility and then welched on it. Completely.



It's too early to say, stop screaming your lungs off before you have all the facts.


You think I'm screaming? Try listening to the MAyor of New Orleans if you want to hear screaming. I'm just stating my considered opinion on this clusterfuck. You assume I'm screaming because it doesn't jibe with your own opinions.



Right now, I'm viewing it as the opposite. Here we have a bunch of people pointing fingers and assigning blame now, later everyone will do the same. Democrats will shout "Republicans did it!" Republicans will scream "It was the Democrats!" Congress and the President will tussel over each other, and all governments, city, county, state, and federal will blame one another.

But we the people will have more facts then. Hindsight is 20/20, remember?

Wait a while before you claim to know the responsible party...unless you want others to do the same to you.

YEah, wait for the spin machines to all get in full force and blame .... who? Cuba? Make it the War on Weather and kick some tropical storm butt? Point out how Katrina passed near Havna and tell the world that Castro contributed to redirecting the storm via voodoo and cigars?

If you want to wait to talk about it, wait. But don't tell the rest of the world that they have to also. If it weren't for people screaming about it who knows how much longer it would have taken to start getting this going into high gear.

Sillio, I hate to be the one to tell you, but you are screaming (no doubt NO's mayor is too). It's as if Bush can do no right. It's his fault. Katrina must have come to the US because of him!

Common, lets not make either ludicris accusations such as "Cuba practiced voodoo!" or "Bush's stupidity sucked it in!" And lets not assign blame before we know where it is due. Innocent until proven guilty is afterall a central tennant to democracy...and ahhh...you don't look like no judge (not even a well informed witness...we'll say nothing of balanced).

EDIT: Last comment removed.

here's who you Unitedstatesians should be blaming:

George W. Bush for ignoring climate change until it was too late
George W. Bush for sending troops off to fight halfway around the world instead of keeping them within your own country ready to help in disasters such as this
George W. Bush for underestimating the impact Katrina would have on the Louisiana coast
George W. Bush for not responding to this disaster until 5+ days after it had occured

Well done! your country is officially run by an idiot.

here's who you Unitedstatesians should be blaming:

George W. Bush for ignoring climate change until it was too late
George W. Bush for sending troops off to fight halfway around the world instead of keeping them within your own country ready to help in disasters such as this
George W. Bush for underestimating the impact Katrina would have on the Louisiana coast
George W. Bush for not responding to this disaster until 5+ days after it had occured

Well done! your country is officially run by an idiot.
Well done, your post was written by an .........

Well done, your post was written by an .........

an genius! :p

I find it pretty bothersome that the National Guard wasn't called up a couple of days ahead of time, instead of five days into the mess. I'm not exactly sure who's decision that was to make (I'm thinking FEMA) but I want their head on a platter.

Im sick of this blame game.

Lets help the victims and get this mess over with.

And now that the storm is over, what do we think about the people who are being told to evacuate the city because it is still not safe and are refusing to leave?

The fact is there were many people not all, but many who had cars and could have left the city before the storm hit that decide to stay even after being told to leave, y believe.

I have sent in my donation, and I can and should send another donation.

I think there are going to be and probably are already many ways to donate like when you buy a product a certain amount goes to help the victims.

I ha

Is it just me, or does someone else realises that the problem in New Orleans WAS NOT THE KATRINA???? The problem was with a out-dated levee system that wasn't prepared for anything more than the normal requirements and offered no protection to the population, because of objective carelessness of the responsible governments. Why this carelessness? Maybe it has something to do with the fact there is a strong black population in New Orleans?

Unfortunately, the US have a lot of third-world-like public facilities, leading to disasters like this, power shortages, and so on...

Luckily, there is the UN and big-hearted countries like Cuba (who sent medical help to the poor country next to them), to help soften the consequences of their under-development. I will now laugh at the face at any american defending the UN must be dismantled!!!! :sniper:

Piss poor planning on the part of local and state governments are the sole and only reason this was a screwup.

As a former emergency services officer, who has been part of both local and statewide disaster planning and preparation, the responsibility of this fiasco lies at grassroots level.

To quote my old tutor:"The four most deadly words in the english language are:"It can't happen here".

I won't even begin to explain where they screwed up...but right now, after this mess is over, the mayor should call his people in, all the planners and "managers" etc..and start with the words "you're fired".

Then hold an election and get rid of the mayor.

Then for the love of GOD, get someone with some basic common sense, elect them mayor, and start making a structured and DETAILED emergency plan, hold regular drills,create and maintain a unified and specifically designed command and control system and then make sure it stays current.

Most of all:from now on, change the law.When told to leave,you LEAVE or you are ARRESTED and DRAGGED out.

I don't give a flying tinker's cuss about your civil rights at that precise moment..they're no good to you if you're DEAD.

Go ahead and complain later all you like...you'll be alive.

Piss poor planning on the part of local and state governments are the sole and only reason this was a screwup.

As a former emergency services officer, who has been part of both local and statewide disaster planning and preparation, the responsibility of this fiasco lies at grassroots level.

To quote my old tutor:"The four most deadly words in the english language are:"It can't happen here".

I won't even begin to explain where they screwed up...but right now, after this mess is over, the mayor should call his people in, all the planners and "managers" etc..and start with the words "you're fired".

Then hold an election and get rid of the mayor.

Then for the love of GOD, get someone with some basic common sense, elect them mayor, and start making a structured and DETAILED emergency plan, hold regular drills,create and maintain a unified and specifically designed command and control system and then make sure it stays current.

Most of all:from now on, change the law.When told to leave,you LEAVE or you are ARRESTED and DRAGGED out.

I don't give a flying tinker's cuss about your civil rights at that precise moment..they're no good to you if you're DEAD.

Go ahead and complain later all you like...you'll be alive.


So, you dont think that the federal government bears any responsibility, after the scene was declared a national emergency, and dumped in the lap of Bush?
His slow respose, and underestimation of need, should not bear any of the blame?

Its not just the local and state officials.

They bear the blame of lack of preparedness.

The poor rescue efforts, and long wait is the fault of FEMA.

o, you dont think that the federal government bears any responsibility, after the scene was declared a national emergency, and dumped in the lap of Bush?

They should have planned, and prepared, and had contingencies in effect.There was little or no pre planning on this, the hurricane had been coming for days, there were no previous drills or evac rehearsals that anyone has ever discussed, even on local or precinct level.

Please, post links showing that in the 12 months prior to Katrina, there was one evac drill carried out by NO emergency personnel.

If I was to detail exactly what should have been done, suffice it to say you'd be reading for three or four HOURS

"We have no water"..where were the water storage centres? Relocation areas? Preplanned evac sites? Where were the planned exit routes, why was there no specific and concerted plan for evac on a massive scale?

Cars bumper to bumper, highways loaded with cars running.

Food and water storage areas were..where? Hoiw much was stored? Where were the emergency filtration systems, pumps? If the Dome was to be used as an evac point, where were the stockpiled water, food and medical supplies? Why were there no personnel ready to distribute the supplies? Where were the nurses and police, emergency services teams?

Want me to go on?

His slow response, and underestimation of need, should not bear any of the blame?

Disaster planning commences at base level with local government.

Fact.

Its not just the local and state officials.

That's where the planning STARTS.

The poor rescue efforts, and long wait is the fault of FEMA.

I'm an Australian, and believe me we have major incident procedures in place. Laid down to the last detail. Or are you saying that we are better prepared than you are? If so...why?

Fires, floods, hailstorms, tornadoes, dust storms..we have them all.

And we know how to handle them.

Repeat after me.

Prior preparation prevents piss poor performance

And saves lives.

Here endeth the lesson.

If you do not blame anyone for the New Orleans Hurrican Mess Problems, please vote on this Poll, thank you.

A Private Poll, I did it again, but this one stays.

again, all the blame polls are mine, I was the first one to come out with them.

We noticed.

I might also add that Mississippi was also hit hard, VERY much so...yet we don't hear any of this screaming and yeling from them, do we?

Might have something to do with the fact that they planned and prepared for this eventuality, carried out the plan when the time came, and their people knew what to do , and when to do it.

Disaster planning, management, resources and emergency response procedure commences at local level.

Fact.

(Speaking from experience, La Habana...I suggest you not argue with me on this. You'll lose. Every time.)

Look, Congress, at Bush's approval, slashed 7 million from the New Orleans budget, and a 25 foot flood wall was rejected. On top of that, a New Orleans flooding disaster was the third most likely catastrophe to hit American soil. So Bush isn't so innocent... then again, he never is. Down with the capitalist pig-dogs!