NationStates Jolt Archive

On this one choice poll, post all your views and comments on who you blame for the New Orleans Hurricane mess,
and why.

Post other views and comments you may have.

God. That miserable bastard.

It was the weather stabilizers oh wait what year is this?

People that blame more than help out.

Mother Nature. Damned hurricanes.

God. That miserable bastard.
I'm with you.

Mother Nature. Damned hurricanes.

I agree. Should have titled news articles about it, "Mother Drowns Hundreds of Children; Victims Families Sue Government."

I agree with you Colodia, I dont blame anyone that is why I did not vote on this poll, perhaps I should have included that as an option.

If you blame someone seriously not on this poll, please post it.

If you dont blame anyone please post it.

can we blame terrorists? that way bush might care about the people killed

...i apologize, that was cavaleer toward a lot of people who are suffering. i do not, however, feel sorry enough not to post it.

Incompetence starts at the local level, moves to the state level, and into the federal level. All 3 get a piece of the pie.

a) Why didn't the local level/state level provide transport prior to the hurricane? They were informed people couldn't evacuate but didn't send assistance to help get them out.

b) No real preperations were made to shelter people before hand on local/state levels. This has extended to the federals too.

c) Feds werent 'fast enough to help counter the chaos. They too had opportunities to prepare - but did nothing to either help evacuate before or resolve after.

Isn't burocracy fun?

Personally, I think we should write congress people and president and say that we no longer are confident that anyone in government or "aid" type agencies will be able to help (willing yes - not able), and thereby, we must simpy rely on ourselves and each other.

~Rose

I am not American, but I would assume it to be the mayor's responsibility to ensure the safety of his citizens by getting the levees upgraded. I also imagine it is a state or federal responsibility to fund these projects since international trade and national energy resource access depends upon the port, but the mayor is the one who I would think needs to be lobbying ceaselessly to get funds allocated for the upgrades. If the mayor HAS been lobbying for these upgrades, then it is the responsibility of whoever the higher-ups are who nixed the plan.

Edit: I see in another thread that lobbying did in fact take place, and GWB chose not to spend the dollars. Shift my blame to him, please kkthx.

It's the fault of the american citizens. You can't blame the leaders, you voted for them

Where is Rotovia when I need Rotovia's help?

Ok, news flash.. Bush made the governor issue the mandatory evacuation in the first place. I blame mostly the people themselves. What kind of idiot lives in a house, nothing against the dutch, below sea level next to a levy?

I blame the idiots who lived there in the first place. I've never seen so many poor fat people. How in the hell do poor people get fat? The old, crippled, sick, and children I have pity for, however, any able bodied person that sit around waiting for help, especially when the afformentioned needed the help, should be put into sacks and drowned like unwanted kittens.

I don't hear any of them thanking the people who helped. They all cry and blame someone else for their misery. The people I have seen are professional victims. No wait, the kid who took the bus is a hero and should get a presidential medal of honor. He is the only non whiner I've even seen interviewed.

I think the situtation was made so much worse by the high-levels of poverty in New Orleans.

So, I blame the entire American lack of 'society'. Why are people left in such poverty in the richest country in the world? It's disgusting, a disgrace. Why do the rich Americans try to get away with paying the lowest taxes they can, why is the system against creating equality and fairness in American society? I think this is where real, wider blame lies. And not just for those hit by the hurricane in New Orleans and the southern United States, but by all those in crippling poverty in the world's richest country.

I blame the hurricane :D

I'm not American, but I live just outside DC. Bush didn't even bother to come from holiday, actually, apologies, he cut his holiday short by two days! Geez, if the weather channel send a small blonde girl in a tight grey t-shirt anywhere, you know to leave ASAP, something big's about to happen. It didn't take a genius to realise that this was going to be bad. All Bush has done so far is fly over and 'survery the damage'.

Hell, come on, aid from the State of Virginia was held up at the state border because of red tape! This was two disasters - the hurricane/flooding and the joke they like to call humanitarian aid! I hope a significant number of you have donated something to the American Red Cross, I have, and my work place has offered research facilities for postgrads/postdocs/researchers to continue their work under our roof until their facilities are back up and running...

Geez, you wouldn't treat a mange ridden dog this bad!

(apologies, perscription painkillers screwing with my head!)

BLAME CANADA!

Bush is God and can summon hurricanes!? :eek:

I think the situtation was made so much worse by the high-levels of poverty in New Orleans.

So, I blame the entire American lack of 'society'. Why are people left in such poverty in the richest country in the world? It's disgusting, a disgrace. Why do the rich Americans try to get away with paying the lowest taxes they can, why is the system against creating equality and fairness in American society? I think this is where real, wider blame lies. And not just for those hit by the hurricane in New Orleans and the southern United States, but by all those in crippling poverty in the world's richest country.

Because America isn't socialist. We believe in being responsible for ourselves, not by a paternalistic governement.

MONETARY EQUALITY IS NOT A HUMAN RIGHT.

BTW: How about Paris?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4212548.stm
*All* nations have richer and poorer. And you Scandinavians have nothing to be proud of, by the way, with your rejections for taking in the Roma. :p

I blame everybody. EVERYBODY! Everybody higher up on the political food chain than Mayor Nagin. I do not blame him. He has done an amazing job.

I blame everybody. EVERYBODY! Everybody higher up on the political food chain than Mayor Nagin. I do not blame him. He has done an amazing job.

EMOTE: Gives Keruvalia props.

Because America isn't socialist. We believe in being responsible for ourselves, not by a paternalistic governement.



Sweden or Europe isn't socialist either. We just have moral values that we can't allow such widespread poverty. A government wouldn't get elected that did.

You think it's fair to be completely without regard for your fellow members of society?

Sweden or Europe isn't socialist either. We just have moral values that we can't allow such widespread poverty. A government wouldn't get elected that did.

You think it's fair to be completely without regard for your fellow members of society?

Europe isn't socialist (thank goodness!), but it still has a LOT more socialist aspects than the US does. The Swedish taxation system is punitive to say the least, and is a reason for that nations high rate of alcoholism and suicide.

I think it's fair that they have the same opportunities to work and get ahead that I did. Both of my parents immigrated from Europe. (Dad in 1969 from Czechoslovakia after that little invasion... back when they WERE socialist; mom from Poland in 1970.)

The US does have welfare, medicade, and unemployment benefits. I'm not all for cutting everyone off with no safety net. However, if Sweden suddenly had 30,000 Roma illegally sneaking over the border every year (and staying!), I don't think that you'd be so pro-welfare state...

Ok, news flash.. Bush made the governor issue the mandatory evacuation in the first place. I blame mostly the people themselves. What kind of idiot lives in a house, nothing against the dutch, below sea level next to a levy?

I blame the idiots who lived there in the first place. I've never seen so many poor fat people. How in the hell do poor people get fat? The old, crippled, sick, and children I have pity for, however, any able bodied person that sit around waiting for help, especially when the afformentioned needed the help, should be put into sacks and drowned like unwanted kittens.

I don't hear any of them thanking the people who helped. They all cry and blame someone else for their misery. The people I have seen are professional victims. No wait, the kid who took the bus is a hero and should get a presidential medal of honor. He is the only non whiner I've even seen interviewed.


YEah.

And I blame the victims of 911 for their deaths too! For fuck's sake, the towers had been attacked before. And planes have been hijacked before.

So what moron would either a) get on a plane, or b) work at an obvious target. You'r just ASKING to get killed pulling dumbass stunts like that.

And do you hear their families? Shit - some of them expect accountability from the people tasked with protecting the country. damn professional victims just trying to suck a free ride out of the deaths of spouses that they probably didn't even love all that much to begin with....

</sarcasm>

When people meet disasters, other people will open their fat, comfortable mouths and blame, blame, blame, blame, blame, all while sitting back with their hands crossed and not thinking of help, help, help, help, help.

I blame the idiots who lived there in the first place. I've never seen so many poor fat people. How in the hell do poor people get fat? The old, crippled, sick, and children I have pity for, however, any able bodied person that sit around waiting for help, especially when the afformentioned needed the help, should be put into sacks and drowned like unwanted kittens.

A third of Americans are obese. I'm surprised you as an American citizen haven't noticed that. Do you only interact with skinny people or something?

And as for your advocation of murder, well I'm not quite sure how to respond to that. It's a barbaric thing to say.

On this one choice poll, post all your views and comments on who you blame for the New Orleans Hurricane mess,
and why.

Post other views and comments you may have.

I can tell you precisely that this will go in favor of Bush. As for me, EVERYONE IS RESPONSIBLE from the local government to the Federal Level. You don't have that option there so I shall not vote.

Edit: I see in another thread that lobbying did in fact take place, and GWB chose not to spend the dollars. Shift my blame to him, please kkthx.

Why don't you blame Congress. It was them that passed it! BOTH SIDES of the aisle agreed to cut that money.

Once again, no one sees the facts of the matter.

I can tell you precisely that this will go in favor of Bush. As for me, EVERYONE IS RESPONSIBLE from the local government to the Federal Level. You don't have that option there so I shall not vote.

Well, that makes two of us.

I guarantee that at least 60% will blame Bush, because we all know he intentionally cut that funding in spite of the determined opposition of the Congress in a plot to drive up oil prices with the hurricane he caused to enrich the oil industry.

After Looking at the poll numbers, I have been proven right.

People apparently don't look at all the facts before making a choice. To those that hve voted that it is Bush's fault, I would like a FACTUAL explaination.

For some reason, I'm not surprised the "non-American, Bush is to blame" option is doing so well :rolleyes:

The Federal government always takes a secondary role in any disaster situation, it's up to the State to properly handle the disaster with their own assests and to rely on the Feds to support with additional money/equipment/ect.

I mean, Mississippi and Alabama got hit just as hard as Louisiana, but you don't see their officials bitching about how they were left out to dry. Both Nagin and Blanco could've done more to prevent at least a goodly number of casualties.

Europe isn't socialist (thank goodness!), but it still has a LOT more socialist aspects than the US does. The Swedish taxation system is punitive to say the least, and is a reason for that nations high rate of alcoholism and suicide.


The US does have welfare, medicade, and unemployment benefits. I'm not all for cutting everyone off with no safety net. However, if Sweden suddenly had 30,000 Roma illegally sneaking over the border every year (and staying!), I don't think that you'd be so pro-welfare state...

Firstly, I really don't think you understand Sweden at all. To suggest that we have a "high rate of alcoholism and suicide" due to the taxation system is just plain wrong. Sorry. The Swedish taxation system is not punitive either, it is very fair. Don't forget or underestimate what it pays for.

Sure, the USA does have welfare, medicade, unemployment benefits... but clearly that are fair too draconian and do not go far enough in their reach. Why are there so many people in such terrible poverty under this ststem?

Finally, almost 1 in 5 people in Sweden are from an immigrant background. I don't really understand your Roma comments, but we have a lot of immigrants.... so please don't suggest it works here because of a homogenous population.

I don't think anyone was to blame, in fact I blame the french for building the city there in the first place, on ground that would sink.... pretty daft.

I mean, Mississippi and Alabama got hit just as hard as Louisiana, but you don't see their officials bitching about how they were left out to dry. Both Nagin and Blanco could've done more to prevent at least a goodly number of casualties.


Do you even know what the problem is? Go swim to the bottom of the lake and pretend your house is down there. Then spend about 5 minutes there pondering what is wrong. Then after you float to the surface; just stay there for about a week with no food or water. That's New Orleans.

And that would have been avoided if Bush didn't take the levee monies and divert them to his illegal Iraqi invasion.

I blame those who would rather sit around assigning blame instead of helping.

And that would have been avoided if Bush didn't take the levee monies and divert them to his illegal Iraqi invasion.

Doesn't anyone understand that Congress passed that cut without desent from the liberal left of the Democratic Party? That's right boyo, Congress cut that without desent from EITHER PARTY.

Don't blame it all on Bush. Its not totally his fault. Everyone is at fault from the Mayor all the way to the top.

It's the fault of the american citizens. You can't blame the leaders, you voted for them

You seem to forget that of the people who voted in the elections, a little less than half of them didn't vote for Bush. I was one of them.

You seem to forget that of the people who voted in the elections, a little less than half of them didn't vote for Bush. I was one of them.

I think your forgetting about the elected representatives of the US House and Senate? All of our leaders (save for congressional leadership positions) are voted for by the people.

Doesn't anyone understand that Congress passed that cut without desent from the liberal left of the Democratic Party? That's right boyo, Congress cut that without desent from EITHER PARTY.

Don't blame it all on Bush. Its not totally his fault. Everyone is at fault from the Mayor all the way to the top.


Yeah, congress sent the monies to Iraq to try and help the soldiers who are gettting slaughtered because of Bush. You Bush supporters make me vomit.

Yeah, congress sent the monies to Iraq to try and help the soldiers who are gettting slaughtered because of Bush. You Bush supporters make me vomit.

LEAVE! POLITICS! OUT! OF! IT!

Your making me vomit by not knowing any facts whatsoever. I don't care if your for the war in Iraq or not. It makes no difference to me. Right now, this is all about the people that need our help and not some lame excuse to blame Bush when this isn't even mostly his fault.

LEAVE! POLITICS! OUT! OF! IT!

Your making me vomit by not knowing any facts whatsoever. I don't care if your for the war in Iraq or not. It makes no difference to me. Right now, this is all about the people that need our help and not some lame excuse to blame Bush when this isn't even mostly his fault.


Leave politics out of it? You've just gone on about congress. And surely mentioning the president involves politics right there.

We couldn't help the people when they needed it. We were told to go away. Then 4 days later Bush decides to send help after even FOXNEWS started bashing him. How bad of a job do you have to do to get your own news station bashing you?

Is this how you lose all your arguments, by throwing a tantrum?

I won't vote, because I think no one is to blame. Everyone in the disaster relief effort is a good person, but no one works together. The thing that deserves the most blame, therefore, is the disjointed relief effort, where the federal, state, and local governments, along with private aid agencies, are marching to their own drum. Still, I think that disaster relief in this country is better than during Hugo.

I vote the weather/Nature

Yeah, congress sent the monies to Iraq to try and help the soldiers who are gettting slaughtered because of Bush. You Bush supporters make me vomit.

Wow, I think you just lowered the IQ of everyone in here...



Honestly, right now there really isn't a point in placing blame..for the deaths blame the Hurricane...this is a situation where basically it was an impossible situtation where difficult decisions had to be made. The city was evacuated beforehand and most of the residents heeded the call that could flee. I highly doubt any structure such as the levees could have survived a Category 4 Hurricane intact, no matter how many repairs were made...three breaches, at times hundreds of yards wide were TORN. Man simply cannot master mother nature, New Orleans has been dodging bullets in the form of hurricanes for over a century, and this time they took one head on. As for the slow response, no government structure so complex could react quickly enough, especially with the logistics of the entire area destroyed more effectively than if New Orleans had been firebombed, not to mention the other areas of Miss. and Louis. that were devastated, help needed to be diverted to them as well. The resources at hand had to be sent to those that could be saved, and with gang violence turning areas of New Orleans into lawless enclaves, time was needed to react and bring enough forces and supplies to bear..you couldn't just drop the 101st Airborne into downtown New Orleans and expect them to provide aid at once, you needed specialized logistics to be brought down...

It should not have taken Bush going there personally to speed up things, and some departments did drop the ball, but there will no doubt be inquiries later, do not start blaming for this and that until the crisis is resolved.

LEAVE! POLITICS! OUT! OF! IT!

YES! TALK ABOUT WHAT'S HAPPENED IN CONGRESS WITHOUT MENTIONING..... POLITICS!!!!

:rolleyes:

Your making me vomit by not knowing any facts whatsoever. I don't care if your for the war in Iraq or not. It makes no difference to me. Right now, this is all about the people that need our help and not some lame excuse to blame Bush when this isn't even mostly his fault.


And I find it especially interesting how you state unequivocably that there was bi-partisan agreement to cut the funding in the Budget. Frankly, budget documents are about the most highly contested pieces of paperwork that Congress deals with each year. The notion that there was widespread approval of slashing these funds is entirely without merit or basis in fact.

So, vomit away if you choose, but please at least do us the curtousy of coming to the discussion with SUBSTANTIATED statements.

I mean, hell - just two days ago you were blaming Bush Sr. for cutting funds to SEMA, even though SEMA wasn't initiated until 1995! So excuse the hell out of me if I take your diatribes with a pound or two of salt... unless, of course, you can provide something to back them up.

Leave politics out of it? You've just gone on about congress. And surely mentioning the president involves politics right there.

I was correcting your misconception that it was Bush that cut the funding. Congress voted FOR that funding cut and that was a bi-partisan thing since no one dissented on that issue.

I guess that didn't get reported in whatever rag you read or listen too.

We couldn't help the people when they needed it. We were told to go away.

Which nation are you from? If Canadian, then a fellow canuck on here has stated that Canadian Search and Rescue teams are helping out in the disaster area. Also, Canada is sending down THREE WARSHIPS WITH SUPPLIES plus 1000 Troops. :eek:

Then 4 days later Bush decides to send help after even FOXNEWS started bashing him. How bad of a job do you have to do to get your own news station bashing you?

Bush himself stated that the relief effort was going to slow and hammered it as well. Also, incase you haven't noticed but alot of the roads around New Orleans was flooded? That'll hamper relief efforts. Not to mention, you still have to get to the affected areas. Also, there is a wide area that got devestated in the region too.

Is this how you lose all your arguments, by throwing a tantrum?

I haven't lost any arguements whatsoever.

For those that think Bush is soley responsible for this, you don't have any facts what so ever.

EVERYONE from the MAYOR of NO through the GOVERNOR of said state all the way up to Congress and the President is to blame for this. No one person is soley responsible and to say as such is rather ludicrous.

I blame Bush for his global-warming policies.

A two degree increase in water temperature has a great effect on the number, frequency, and intensity of storms.

Ah, two degrees...so basically we should blame the entire course of industrialized human civilization from Andrew Carnegie and JP Morgan to now for the one degree increase over the past century. One man's policies over 5 years cannot compare to the entire course of human development since the Industrial Revolution

People blame Bush because he's the faceplate of the government, the one that takes all the flak. I mean, he's the leader of the party, after all, right?


It's the fault of the american citizens. You can't blame the leaders, you voted for them


The "people" that elected the officials are only about 60% of them.

215,694,000 eligble to vote in Election 2004.
Of this, 34.1% (73,624) were not registered. That means they didnt vote. :gundge:
Only 58.3% (125,736) of the people able to vote living in this country voted. The other 41.7% is not comprised of an evenly split right and left.

Now, do you think the election would've had a different result if voting were compulsory? Maybe we would be harassing Kerry to do something, eh?

Granted, its America's own fault for not getting off their arses and doing something, but that's semantics.

US Census site (http://www.census.gov/population/www/socdemo/voting/cps2004.html)

... Also, Canada is sending down THREE WARSHIPS WITH SUPPLIES plus 1000 Troops. :eek:


Wait, Canada has WHAT? ;)

I blame Africa for allowing the hurricane to develop unchecked off of their coastline.

The fact that Bush is winning for the americans either shows

A) Politics are getting in the way of things

B) Americans really have no damn clue about how their governmental system works.


Im guessing both. Hell my friend from California didnt even know Washington was a state ...she thought it was just a city...that is damned pathetic if you ask me, scary thing is...a lot of people are that way, if they cant even name their states, what makes you think they understand how their complex government works... Americans are the dumbest people on earth, sorry, they work hard, they fight hard, but they have no damn clue about anything.

The fact that Bush is winning for the americans either shows

A) Politics are getting in the way of things

B) Americans really have no damn clue about how their governmental system works.


Im guessing both.

Agreed.

I laugh at the fact that election issues include moral issues. No way should abortion determine who controls our military.... right? *cricket*

Its an issue for the Supreme court, yes, but then again they've made their decision already. Makes me wonder how these people squeak it by the Social Studies teachers..

Probably because lead paint is banned and stupid people can't kill themselves as easily anymore.

Do you even know what the problem is? Go swim to the bottom of the lake and pretend your house is down there. Then spend about 5 minutes there pondering what is wrong. Then after you float to the surface; just stay there for about a week with no food or water. That's New Orleans.

And that would have been avoided if Bush didn't take the levee monies and divert them to his illegal Iraqi invasion.

Cities like Biloxi got hit harder then New Orleans, with storm surges up to 30ft and yet those places haven't degenerated into anarchy that The Big Easy has. Thousands coud've been saved if either Nagin or Blanco had ordered the NORTA and school bus systems to evacuate the people still left in the city.

After Looking at the poll numbers, I have been proven right.

People apparently don't look at all the facts before making a choice. To those that hve voted that it is Bush's fault, I would like a FACTUAL explaination.

Dude... 11,000 posts and you didn't know that?!? :confused:

You could have a poll about the McCarthy hearings and Bush would win...

Dude... 11,000 posts and you didn't know that?!? :confused:

You could have a poll about the McCarthy hearings and Bush would win...

Yea yea!

I already knew it!

I just wanted to say it :D

Firstly, I really don't think you understand Sweden at all. To suggest that we have a "high rate of alcoholism and suicide" due to the taxation system is just plain wrong. Sorry. The Swedish taxation system is not punitive either, it is very fair. Don't forget or underestimate what it pays for.

A reason, not THE reason. Swedish taxes are amongst the highest in the world! How on earth is it fair? What if I don't WANT what it pays for? If I lived there, I can't opt out of things I never use... here in my town, I can opt out of EVERYTHING except education, the fire stations and the police.

Sure, the USA does have welfare, medicade, unemployment benefits... but clearly that are fair too draconian and do not go far enough in their reach. Why are there so many people in such terrible poverty under this ststem?

Because they don't work. Because there *IS* racism. Because the poor have more children, usually.
And, what terrible poverty? 12% of the population being at the poverty line? That's 35 million. Subtract the 9 or 10 million illegals... and it really starts to go down, eh? Now, subtract those that don't WANT to work, and the poverty rate is probably 6% or so. I see no reason why my taxes should support someone who doesn't want to support themselves.

Finally, almost 1 in 5 people in Sweden are from an immigrant background. I don't really understand your Roma comments, but we have a lot of immigrants.... so please don't suggest it works here because of a homogenous population.

Immigrants in Sweden? PLEASE... your country is almost entirely White and Christian! Sweden *is* one of the most homogenous countries on earth!!!

Sweden:
Net migration rate: 1.67 migrant(s)/1,000 population (2005 est.)
Ethnic groups: Swedes and Finnish and Sami minorities; foreign-born or first-generation immigrants: Finns, Yugoslavs, Danes, Norwegians, Greeks, Turks
Religion: Lutheran 87%, Roman Catholic, Orthodox, Baptist, Muslim, Jewish, Buddhist
http://www.odci.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/sw.html#People

2001 Immigration:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a1/Sweden_foreigners_text.png/280px-Sweden_foreigners_text.png

Re: ROMA:
The US has 1,000,000 illegal immigrants cross the Mexican border every year. I merely scaled it down to 30,000 Roma to give you a context (US pop is 295m, Sweden is about 9m.) Would you continue to back such high levels of welfare state spending, if Sweden was gaining a Karlshamn of people every year... that mostly only took menial jobs, if any?

You seem to forget that of the people who voted in the elections, a little less than half of them didn't vote for Bush. I was one of them.

Sorry Euroslavia, I don't like that as a concept. I didn't vote for the Governor of Louisiana (being in Connecticut and all), but that doesn't give any moral high ground.

If you voted for Bush or not, he's the President.

Dude... 11,000 posts and you didn't know that?!? :confused:

You could have a poll about the McCarthy hearings and Bush would win...
That's precisely why I call leftists "spoiled brats." Only a spoiled brat, probably raised by a single female, would automatically blame something like a natural disaster on the most prominent authority figure available at the time.

I blame Bush for his global-warming policies.

A two degree increase in water temperature has a great effect on the number, frequency, and intensity of storms.

Great! So we can blame the floods in Germany on Schroder's policies, too? Such high unemployment, yet he didn't get the drainage systems fixed!
How about the fires in Spain on Jose Luis, since he didn't offer to take the water from Germany to put out the massive wildfires? :headbang:

You may as well blame Denmark for not stopping World War Two, since they only had 12 soldiers die (of heat stroke) when the Nazis invaded.

That's precisely why I call leftists "spoiled brats." Only a spoiled brat, probably raised by a single female, would automatically blame something like a natural disaster on the most prominent authority figure available at the time.


Nice to see that moronic generalizations aren't being abandoned in the realm of political discourse.

Just curious, but what about the Conservatives who were critical of the slow disaster response? Are they closet leftists? Or do they just have poor memories of their fathers?


And what's with the bolding?
:rolleyes:

President Bush. That man does NOT know how to run a nation. Anyway, I am not American.

President Bush. That man does NOT know how to run a nation. Anyway, I am not American.
I rest my case! :D

President Bush. That man does NOT know how to run a nation.

That's not a very serious critique, coming from a nation that was partitioned four times.

(BTW: Ja som Slovensky od Bardejov.)

Here we go again.

Im sick of this blame everyone game.

lets help the victims and get this over with.

And now that the storm is over, what do we think about the people who are being told to evacuate the city because it is still not safe and are refusing to leave?

I have sent in my donation, and I can and should send another donation.

I don't blame any of the above. The hurrican itself was a natural disaster, nobody "caused" it.

I do put a fair amount of claim on the administration and rescue organisations, however. And that's where all the politicians will get their share of the blame.
There obviously was no emergency concept for a disaster situation such as this one. Therefore, no preparations were made, and the aftermath is a lot worse than it had a right to be.
I find it surprising that in a country that isn't exactly unfamiliar with extreme weather situations there seems to be no evacuation plans for major cities, no emergency plans to provide food and shelter for those who for some reason cannot be evacuated, no special units of either police or military to keep the order during the emergency and no plan on how to rebuild a major city after a catastrophe like this. All this should be in place, and it's the politician's job to put it in place.

A reason, not THE reason. Swedish taxes are amongst the highest in the world! How on earth is it fair? What if I don't WANT what it pays for? If I lived there, I can't opt out of things I never use... here in my town, I can opt out of EVERYTHING except education, the fire stations and the police.



Because they don't work. Because there *IS* racism. Because the poor have more children, usually.
And, what terrible poverty? 12% of the population being at the poverty line? That's 35 million. Subtract the 9 or 10 million illegals... and it really starts to go down, eh? Now, subtract those that don't WANT to work, and the poverty rate is probably 6% or so. I see no reason why my taxes should support someone who doesn't want to support themselves.



Immigrants in Sweden? PLEASE... your country is almost entirely White and Christian! Sweden *is* one of the most homogenous countries on earth!!!

Sweden:
Net migration rate: 1.67 migrant(s)/1,000 population (2005 est.)
Ethnic groups: Swedes and Finnish and Sami minorities; foreign-born or first-generation immigrants: Finns, Yugoslavs, Danes, Norwegians, Greeks, Turks
Religion: Lutheran 87%, Roman Catholic, Orthodox, Baptist, Muslim, Jewish, Buddhist
http://www.odci.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/sw.html#People

2001 Immigration:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a1/Sweden_foreigners_text.png/280px-Sweden_foreigners_text.png

Re: ROMA:
The US has 1,000,000 illegal immigrants cross the Mexican border every year. I merely scaled it down to 30,000 Roma to give you a context (US pop is 295m, Sweden is about 9m.) Would you continue to back such high levels of welfare state spending, if Sweden was gaining a Karlshamn of people every year... that mostly only took menial jobs, if any?

You really haven't been to Stockholm, or Malmö or Göteborg recently have you, otherwise you would even without stats be able to see that Sweden is no longer a homegenous white, Lutheran country. Out of the 9 million or so persons who live here, around 800 000 - 900 000 are immigrants or their children. I think that's rather high personally. Karlshamn has around 24 000 inhabitants by the way... so we certainly have more than a 'Karlshamn' worth of immigrants. And yes, unfortunately, often it is the immigrants who are taking the more menial jobs (cleaners, hotel workers, bus drivers etc).

Yet, we are still upholding a society that believes that there is a place for collective responsibility. I personally would not find myself able to vote for a party that advocated letting the poor starve etc.

The level of poverty in USA is quite shocking considering it is the words richest country. You ask how Swedish taxes are fair? They are very fair. Our tax system is progressive, the more you are able to pay, the more you do pay. This ensures that society looks after all of its members. How is it fair to live in a country where the rich go out of their way to pay the lowest amount of taxation possible whilst the poorest in society survive in slum conditions. That seems far less fair to me. I would far rather pay larger taxes in return for good services and a fair society.

The level of US poverty can be very clearly seen in the infant mortality rate. USA is 43rd in the world (6.5 deaths / 1000 live births). This is worse than almost all of western Europe, worse than Cuba, worse than Taiwan, and significantly worse than places such as Japan (3.26) and Sweden (2.77). Just think with all the money United States has, you could easily end poverty in your nation.

You really haven't been to Stockholm, or Malmö or Göteborg recently have you, otherwise you would even without stats be able to see that Sweden is no longer a homegenous white, Lutheran country.

OMG! You have three semi-diverse cities!! :rolleyes:
HALF OF YOUR IMMIGRATION IS FROM OTHER SCANDINAVIAN COUNTRIES! The stats speak for themselves. When you can get as diverse as say... New Haven, CT, let me know.

Out of the 9 million or so persons who live here, around 800 000 - 900 000 are immigrants or their children. I think that's rather high personally.

Dude. They're almost *all* from Europe! (Did you actually read the chart??) They're mostly white and Christian. Get a grip. I think you really need to come to New York and see what actual diversity is.

Karlshamn has around 24 000 inhabitants by the way... so we certainly have more than a 'Karlshamn' worth of immigrants. And yes, unfortunately, often it is the immigrants who are taking the more menial jobs (cleaners, hotel workers, bus drivers etc).

And you still avoid the question of how would you feel about being such a pro-welfare nation if you gained 30,000 Roma per year. Congrats. This entire post has been a re-iteration of what you've been saying, despite my posting pesky things like fact and direct questions.

Yet, we are still upholding a society that believes that there is a place for collective responsibility. I personally would not find myself able to vote for a party that advocated letting the poor starve etc.

Who would?

The level of poverty in USA is quite shocking considering it is the words richest country.

As long as there is currency, there will be poor. I keep pointing out that it's almost impossible to immigrate TO Sweden: who's going to cross your borders? Finns and Norwegians? They enjoy the same lifetyle you do, due to your geography! Don't you *think* that if you opened your doors to unlimited Roma immigration that you'd be in the same sort of demographic as the US vis-a-vis poverty? :headbang:

You ask how Swedish taxes are fair? They are very fair. Our tax system is progressive, the more you are able to pay, the more you do pay.

More saying nothing.
We have the same system... As I've pointed out before, the bottom 50% of the US income earners pay 4% of the taxes.

This ensures that society looks after all of its members. How is it fair to live in a country where the rich go out of their way to pay the lowest amount of taxation possible whilst the poorest in society survive in slum conditions.

I don't know, I don't live in such a place. However, I'm currently paying 37% taxes, and that's quite enough, thank you. I work hard for my money, and have no desire to feed people that don't want to work.
Simply put, I've yet to meet a single person in America with a job that doesn't get ahead. Really. And I've worked everywhere from a factory that made car parts to a fortune 10 company.

That seems far less fair to me. I would far rather pay larger taxes in return for good services and a fair society.

You're welcome to do that. However, I think you're on crack if you think that fair means you pay more for somebody else.

The level of US poverty can be very clearly seen in the infant mortality rate. USA is 43rd in the world (6.5 deaths / 1000 live births).
This is worse than almost all of western Europe, worse than Cuba, worse than Taiwan, and significantly worse than places such as Japan (3.26) and Sweden (2.77). Just think with all the money United States has, you could easily end poverty in your nation.

For what? A year? Yes, if we wanted to give up what we believe in and embrace Socialism. No thanks. I feel that the heavily subsidized education, housing, food, and other benefits we provide the poor are more than sufficient. Think I'm joking? Go read about President Johnson's "Great Society". Bled the economy, for no gain whatsoever.

You're also failing to take into account the other factors of why the US's is high: do you know how many children die crossing the desert to get into the US? How about how many children are lost because their worthless addict parents don't care?

As for solving infant mortality, simple solution: don't be poor.
(and, if you think that's callous, being poor is also the reason why so many died in New Orleans: they couldn't leave. I don't feel the least bit responsible for someone who's 38, fourth generation American, and makes $11,000 a year.) As a Slovak ex-pat, I find life in the US far better than over there, though it is getting better now.

BTW: As you've said nothing in reply to what I posted other than droning the same points, please don't bother to answer. Especially since I'm gone.
Please read: http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=442920&page=1&pp=15

I blame no one and nothing. It is nature, and no one,(except God in my opinion, whom I can't blame either, as I do not know what reasons He might have.)could have changed it.

Obviously no one can control nature. But what should happen after nature does it's thing? I work with my local county emergency management through ARES/RACES (ham radio emergency communications) We have a training meeting every month. At every meeting it is stated that our job is to help hold things together for THREE DAYS. The Feds set the standard that anything after 3 DAYS would be theirs. So we are required to have a "72 hour kit" that would allow us to survive for 3 DAYS. Many companies actually sell basic "72 hour kits"(google that) because that is the Federal standard. So the locals handle anything under 3 DAYS, The Feds handle anything that can't be solved in THREE DAYS. In NO, the plan was to remove 60% of the people before the hurricane. The local government actually removed 80% of the people before the storm. Much better than expected. Supplies, etc. held out for the three days. Most people, knowing that they were in a hurricane area had three days supplies in their houses. The problem came when the calvary didn't come over the hill in three days. It took longer than 3 days just to get a hospital ship out of Norfolk VA and on it's way. It took almost a week to get a helicopter carrier. Personally, I'm upgrading my "72 hour kit" to a "168 hour" kit.

Napolean Bonaparte, Thoams Jefferson, and James Monroe...

and lets not forget Jean-Baptiste Le Moyne de Bienville, the city's founder.